Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Archive 76

August Editathons at Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 22:23, 23 July 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Examples of good articles that rely largely on interviews/profiles?
I'm currently reviewing the article Megan Phelps-Roper for GA status. The main thing I'm struggling with is that a large majority of the citations are to sources that are not independent of the subject - mostly interviews, and profiles done with the co-operation of Phelps-Roper. I have concerns about how this affects NPOV - i.e. that the article might be too close to being "Megan Phelps-Roper, according to Megan Phelps-Roper". I'm also wondering where to draw the line on what sorts of statements should have in-text attribution when based on such sources.

This isn't a situation I've dealt with before, so it would be really helpful to have one or two examples to compare to of good articles (ideally ones that have been formally assessed as GA or FA class) that heavily rely on such sources. Is anyone aware of any? I tried scanning the intersection of Category:Good articles and Category:Living people, but the vast majority of these articles are on high-profile subjects who have been the subject of lots of independent RS coverage. Colin M (talk) 17:46, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Philip Orbanes
I have just put in an AfD for a page that links to Philip_Orbanes. This is a BLP and seems rather poorly sourced though I suspect it may meet the notability requirements and certainly is not libellous. I was going to put in an AfD for this as well, but I think I am out of my depth. Perhaps this could be cleaned up. Slimy asparagus (talk) 23:25, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Ivan Kodatsky
I am not sure, but is this copied word for word from somewhere else? It almost seems COPYVIO to me. Govvy (talk) 15:02, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

RfC on excluding non-notable pre-transition names of deceased trans people
There's a Manual of Style RfC on this matter: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biography. EddieHugh (talk) 18:07, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Marcell Jacobs sudden popularity led to too much confusion in the article
I created the article year ago and kept it until before the Olympics following the rules of WikiProject Athletics and the WikiProject Athletics/Manual of Style/Biographies. Now I will arrange the article step by step according to the MOS of the project and detailing every single change in the "edit summary" of the article after each modification. But I'll go into more detail on my edits, explaining its, in this section.
 * In the MOS first goes the biography section (which eventually includes the career section) and then the statistics section. --Kasper2006 (talk) 21:51, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * World, European and National records need a specific section in the Statistics section. --Kasper2006 (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Also national titles need a specific section in the Statistics section. --Kasper2006 (talk) 21:58, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Add Others international meetings section (why national meetings and not Diamond League?) --Kasper2006 (talk) 22:06, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Reginald Boulos
A very poorly sourced BLP of a Haitian businessman (and opposition politician?), which is currently semi-protected due to BLP violations, i.e. allegations of involvement in the recent assassination of Haiti President Jovenel Moise being added to the article. More eyes on the page would be welcomed. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 09:25, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Arthur Conan Doyle has an RFC
Arthur Conan Doyle has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Skyerise (talk) 23:35, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Two new 'find sources' templates
You're probably familiar with the find sources template; that's the one that generates the source links you usually see in the Talk header of pages like, well, Talk:Arthur Conan Doyle is as good an example as any. (Look for find sources just above the "search archives" input box.)

Now we also have template find biographical sources, which lists some links better oriented to finding sources for biographical articles. Wrapper biographical sources box is also available, and generates this box for 'Arthur Conan Doyle', for example:

Your feedback and comments would be welcome at Template talk:Find biographical sources. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 23:11, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback requested at Village Pump proposal to extend "Find sources" functionality
There is a proposal at Village Pump about extending the functionality of template Find sources to facilitate the use of Find biographical sources (introduced just above) on Talk page headers of articles, as well as in other templates. Your feedback would be appreciated at Village pump (proposals).

Plain English version: we've got a way to make the Talk header on pages that link WikiProject Biography automatically generate the new, "biographical sources" links at the top of the Talk page (inside the Talk header template). This proposal needs community input, to see if we should go ahead with it or not. If approved, then Talk headers on biographical articles will automatically pick up the new links (as shown in the box in the section above); if rejected, the Talk header will continue to have the standard, "find sources" links that they have now (five Google links, NY Times, JSTOR, and a couple others). If you can help, please contribute here. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 23:21, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Javier Pérez (soccer coach)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Javier Pérez (soccer coach) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 01:54, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Giuseppe Santoro
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Giuseppe Santoro that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 02:03, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Janet Brown (murder victim)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Janet Brown (murder victim) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 02:09, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Queen of Ghana
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Queen of Ghana that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 11:06, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Feedback requested on draft of Roscoe Conkling
Hello! I am seeking assistance on my complete re-draft of the article for U.S. Senator Roscoe Conkling. Please see here: Talk:Roscoe_Conkling. -A-M-B-1996- (talk) 01:11, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Pooya Khan Mohammad Beigi
Do the h-index and other citation factors for Pooya Khan Mohammad Beigi at https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=UmFKdc8AAAAJ&hl=en&oi=ao suggest that he is notable? I have not created an article about him, but I would appreciate some guidance. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 10:10, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Based purely on the Google Scholar profile, I don't see a pass of WP:NPROF C1. He could of course pass another notability criterion. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 12:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Question re: partner in infobox
Hello! I'm Charlie and I work for Airbnb. I've disclosed my conflict of interest and intend to only propose article improvements on Talk pages for editors to review.

I have a question for members of this project. I submitted a request here to remove mention of an ex-girlfriend from the Brian Chesky article's infobox. I submitted this request for two reasons: 1) the couple have separated and 2) Template:Infobox person suggests this field should only be used if the partner is a notable individual. My thinking was, his former girlfriend does not have a Wikipedia article and therefore should not be mentioned in the infobox.

However, my request has been declined, presumably because I cannot provide a source which specifically says the couple have separated. I am not looking to circumvent User:Quetstar's decision, but I am hoping to get a better understanding of the rules. Can any editors please explain why a non-notable former girlfriend must be displayed here? I'd like to be able to explain to Brian and some of my other colleagues from a Wikipedia perspective.

Thanks so much! CU Airbnb (talk) 15:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * @CU Airbnb WP requires each edit (or ER) to have a source to back it up. Since your request had no sources, removing his (former) girlfriend from the infobox would have been considered hearsay and subject to be reverted, so I had no choice but to deny it. Quetstar (talk) 17:36, 24 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , while is correct here, (and I'd also note that when "partner" relationships end they will stay in the infobox but with start-end dates added, and that like spouses non-notable people can be added), I do question why the partner was added to the infobox in the first place. The "partner" parameter is subject to quite a lot of debate on what elevates someone from a casual date/girlfriend/boyfriend to a more serious partner. Generally, it is the parameter used for a relationship at the level of spouse without being married, and typically a source that supports the importance of the relationship is needed before the relationship is added to the infobox. The current source doesn't support that, IMO; it's probably significant enough to mention that he dated this woman in his personal life section, but not for the infobox. Kingsif (talk) 19:57, 27 August 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment at Talk:Andrew Cuomo
–– FormalDude  talk  21:46, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Flagging Edit Request on John Stankey Talk Page
Hello – I’m sharing this post in the hopes of getting an editor’s review on the most recent changes proposed to John Stankey’s article (on 8/4/2021). Please note that I proposed this edit for FleishmanHillard on behalf of AT&T as a paid editor and I am aware of the COI guidelines. Please let me know of any questions or comments. Thanks for your time and consideration. Jon Gray (talk) 01:44, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Ivan Alexander of Bulgaria FAR
I have nominated Ivan Alexander of Bulgaria for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Bumbubookworm (talk) 16:59, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

Ezekiel W. Cullen Building
Ezekiel W. Cullen Building, University of Texas, Austin, Texas Ezekiel W. Cullen Building, University of Houston, Houston, Texas 47.32.60.17 (talk) 10:42, 20 September 2021 (UTC)Sonya Sustackova (UT Alum)

Request for feedback at Ace of Base
–– FormalDude  talk  04:21, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Proposed bot task to update infobox nationality parameter
Your input would be appreciated at Bots/Requests for approval/BattyBot 61, a request to change values in the nationality field from country names to nationalities in various biography infoboxes (e.g. United Kingdom or United Kingdom → British, United States or United States → American). Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 19:38, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Death of Gabby Petito
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Death of Gabby Petito that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. SK2242 (talk) 21:43, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

Cardi B has an RFC
Cardi B has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. shanghai. talk to me 03:44, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Admin members
Just wanted to point out that in this section there're many listed who are not Admins. - FlightTime  ( open channel ) 22:10, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Modification of several dozen biographies to note signatories of the Polanski support letter
Several dozen biographies of notable figures who signed a letter in support of film director Roman Polanski were recently modified to add near identical text as follows:
 * In 2009, ARTICLE-TITLE signed a petition in support of film director Roman Polanski, calling for his release after he was arrested in Switzerland in relation to his 1977 charge for drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl.&#91;4&#93;

Should these changes be kept, rolled back, modified, or something else? Your feedback would be appreciated. , you get first dibs. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 00:25, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Listed at: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film
 * Listed at: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women Mathglot (talk) 00:40, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * On the basis of absolutely no research right now, I do recall this letter getting a fairly significant amount of press at the time—provided it was included with a few references not just to show that it happened, but that it was subsequently covered by the press, it feels like it would be as pertinent as anything else. Obviously the inverse applies too; if there isn't notable coverage then perhaps it falls afoul of WP:UNDUE due to a lack of third-party significance. Gʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ˣ 00:45, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , I think it's clearly relevant at the Polanski article without a doubt; I remember the news about it, too. But, I don't remember any significant news or academic coverage about, say, Yasmina Reza (picked at random), signing the letter:
 * Clearly, anybody who signed probably worked with or for Polanski at some point (or maybe even not?) but for Reza, at least, nothing shows up in the first 20 results (didn't check every link). Wouldn't that make it WP:UNDUE to add to the Yasmina Reza article if nobody covers it other than as a passing mention? Mathglot (talk) 01:21, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't expect each signatory to have in-depth coverage focussed solely on them having signed it, but as the letter itself received coverage, and it is reliably sourced to say that person X was a signatory, then I don't believe a sentence mentioning it is undue. Gʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ˣ 01:38, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't expect each signatory to have in-depth coverage focussed solely on them having signed it, but as the letter itself received coverage, and it is reliably sourced to say that person X was a signatory, then I don't believe a sentence mentioning it is undue. Gʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ˣ 01:38, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * It deserves to be mentioned. The reasoning that's been given for removing mention of the petition is that it's not relevant or is trivial information, but many biographical articles contain information on the person's support for political and social causes or controversies they have been involved in (see some examples I gave in this edit near the end of my talk page, just to avoid copy/pasting that huge chunk of text here). I don't see how support of the Polanski petition isn't as relevant as support of other political or social causes. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 00:54, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Agree with Grapple X. The Drover&#39;s Wife (talk) 00:57, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Note: Mathglot's quote of my edits links to this La Règle du Jeu source, but I did not use that source on every article. Some used this Guardian article and others used this Société des Auteurs et Compositeurs Dramatiques source (the SACD co-coordinated the petition, per The Guardian). Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 01:02, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that update. Mathglot (talk) 01:13, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Clarification: I may have been unclear in the original intro at the top. This isn't about whether the edit is worth mentioning it in the Polanski article; obviously, it is. The question is whether it's relevant to mention it in each of the articles that were changed to add it. I raised the example of the Yasmina Reza biography above: is it worth keeping in that article, for example? Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 01:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)


 * I believe the overwhelming issue with Abbyjjjj96's edits to 40 different biography articles was the fact she was using those three sources to infer that all the signatories somehow disagreed with why Polanski was arrested ("after he was arrested in Switzerland in relation to his 1977 charge for drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl."), when in fact they signed the petition to protest how he was arrested—at a film festival. This is defamatory undue OR, per WP:BLP, and should be immediately excised. These people signing this petition was in no way related to them disagreeing with the charge, which this user has been trying to infer in over different 40 articles with their edits. In her massive response on her talk page, she says: "It's hard not to see the removal of the support for the Polanski petition as being specifically because it relates to a man's charge of raping a 13 year old girl, and thus as yet another sign of Wikipedia's bias against women's issues." Clearly not here... just here to propagate her own ideology. Homeostasis07 (talk/contributions) 01:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I wasn't insinuating that, as I already told you and yet you keep insisting that I was editing in bad faith. That 'massive response' (which I already linked to above) that you are cherry-picking from to try to frame my editing as sinister shows I expressed that concern because it's apparently fine for biographical articles to mention a person's support of other political and social causes—or even downright trivial things—but not this one. I do not meet wp:nothere; I have made thousands of edits completely unrelated to Roman Polanski or subjects involving rape or feminism. Abbyjjjj96 (talk) 02:11, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

I dropped mention of the petition signing at Yasmina Reza as clearly WP:UNDUE. There is no significant coverage of Reza's having signed this petition, only a document that includes a list of 839 names of which she is one name. This is far from being a noteworthy event in Reza's life sufficient to merit inclusion in an encyclopedic biographical article on her life. It could be that the Polanski petition signing has special importance for Reza, and therefore it should be included in the article; if that is the case, there will be reliable sources that cover it which we can cite; but the WP:ONUS is on the person adding this material to provide it. Mere coverage in a list of hundreds of signatories does not demonstrate sufficient support, in my opinion.

I suspect that this is also the case for some, or perhaps many, of the other fifty or so articles, which should be examined on a case-by-case basis. For those biographies where there is no reliable source support other than mention in a list of many signatories, in my opinion that is not sufficient for inclusion in a biography on Wikipedia. The WP:ONUS for showing that this material belongs in a biography is on the person adding the content. Mathglot (talk) 03:19, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No problem with sourced mention of this in Polanski's article (with a clarification to show exactly what the petition was against), but I don't support the inclusion of this in multiple bios without more reason than the subjects simply having signed the petition against the way way Polanski was detained. If there is published commentary on the significance of some particular individual having signed then it can be included in that person's article.
 * I removed mention of this from Tom Tykwer. The fact that in this case this material was shoehorned into a completely inappropriate section does seem to support the suggestion that these shotgun additions are an attempt to tar the subjects with apparent support for Polanski's having drugged and raped a 13-year-old girl. Meters (talk) 19:05, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Robert Miles (sociologist)
Hello, WikiProject,

This draft was due to be deleted in an hour as a CSD G13 stale draft but I've postponed that. Clearly a lot of work has gone into this draft and I'm hoping that someone who has worked with academic biographies could look this over with a pair of fresh eyes. He seems like a notable academic and this draft is quite superior to the quite brief article we currently have at Robert Miles (sociologist). Thanks for any help you can provide with content creation. Liz Read! Talk! 02:06, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Omar Morales (fighter)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Omar Morales (fighter) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. ASUKITE 01:28, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated The Greencards for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 03:35, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Sékou Touré (footballer)
So this is a bit of a weird one, I was combing through the 2003 deaths category, came across Sékou Touré (footballer). The first thing I noticed was that his death date was November 30, 2002. I went to other language Wikis to see if this was just a typo and they also went with 2003 or 2002, but then I noticed additional discrepancies. On the German wiki, his date of death is April 2, 2003, on the French wiki, his date of death is February 1, 2003. The other language Wiki's Touré all use varying versions of the dates I've listed, so I am very perplexed. Rusted AutoParts 01:10, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Draft:Bio Poem
Bio Poem is a technique of writing biography in poetry form. I mean biographies which are written like a poem is called bio poem so please publish this page. 2401:4900:51DA:F5EB:6433:25E8:33BE:A5F3 (talk) 09:25, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Duplicate Biography
Hello. A duplicate biography article has been brought to my attention. Would it be possible for these to be merged? Bertie Louis Coombes and B. L. Coombes are the same person. Many thanks! Jason.nlw (talk) 09:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)


 * If you identify which of the two is the more common title in sources, that should be the primary name. Slap  on the other one, and   on the primary one. Looking at it, it seems B. L. Coombes might be the primary name here and Bertie Louis Coombes the secondary. 𝄠ʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ꭗ 10:12, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I shall do that now Jason.nlw (talk) 12:04, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Randall James Bayer article
The Randall James Bayer page, of a living botanist, appears to have been written by Randall James Bayer. It was created on 19 August 2006‎, nominated for deletion on 19 August 2006‎, voted keep on 24 August 2006, and the final edit by the subject of the page was 15 years ago this month. Various cleanup edits have occurred since 2006, but in these 15 years, it still cites no sources (other than the IPNI citation for the botanist abbreviation) and has no tag templates. Furthermore, it is almost an exact copy of https://www.anbg.gov.au/biography/bayer-randall.html. Which came first is hard to tell. Eewilson (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Obama FAR
I have nominated Barack Obama for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Therapyisgood (talk) 01:06, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Finding Citations That Satisfy
I update annually the biography of my late father William Templeton who was a Hollywood scriptwriter. I come into possession of a whole trove of material and references that go into making these additions, in my opinion an informative biography with no embellishments. However, I have had an increasingly more difficult time with reference citations as so many appear to be rejected by editors. So for example the ImDb references which makes highlighting of older 1950s TV content near impossible despite the deep archive skills of ImDb who are the first to post and research old programmes and input details of all cast and crew based on viewings. There is no one else who does this.

I have had theatrical sites rejected too and an inability to recognise the difference from editors between a TV titles and a play title. I had several citations suggestions deleted in a row and all links were to platforms which are industry standard. This leaves biographies for those in TV, Theatre and Film thin and near useless for research and reference. Of course Wiki internal links are also rejected so often there is nowhere to go. I had to even take down my reference in the bio to me as his one son because there is no link that satisfies the editor.

Finally, I would encourage the debate about allowing 'family members contribute to pages be relaxed as my input are constantly questioned. I work with the British Library and the Library of Congress and use their references because they hold all his plays and play scripts - but even here, I struggle with editors. One to watch as the quality fo the biography is sometimes in the domain of a relative who may often have the most opportune and relevant input. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher Templeton (talk • contribs) 11:42, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a database. The difference is subtle in some ways, great in others.  It sounds like what you want is a database, not an encyclopedia. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:14, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sameer Wankhede
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sameer Wankhede. Venkat TL (talk) 09:31, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

GAR
Steven Donziger has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 01:33, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Chris Jeday
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Chris Jeday that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. VR talk 03:12, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Lewis (baseball) Featured article review
I have nominated Lewis (baseball) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  17:37, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Proactive notability inquiry
Is it possible to find out if a botanist and full professor of botany is considered notable before I publish the article (so as to avoid an unfortunate deletion process)? Eewilson (talk) 00:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Need opinions on use of a genealogy source
I'm thinking of getting Margaret Sibella Brown ready for WP:GA. The biggest problem I see is my use of http://freepages.rootsweb.com/ to support the statement, "The name Sibella or Sibyl in the Brown family is traced back to Isabella French (born about 1731 or 1732), wife of John Barrington." How do people feel about this as a source? -- RoySmith (talk) 17:27, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Could you provide an exact link to the source rather than just Rootsweb?--Eewilson (talk) 17:39, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Never mind. I got there. If you want to keep that sentence in the article, I think a more reliable source is in order. As a genealogist myself, I would only use it in an attempt to find a better reference. Would removal of the sentence you quoted be detrimental to the article? --Eewilson (talk) 17:47, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That sentence is certainly in the "nice to have" category, in that it explains why so many of her relatives have similar names. But, no, it's not essential.  I'll keep hunting to see if I can find a better source.  Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:53, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Too, unless there is something in the source that says the original person was the actual eponym for all women with that name or variation of the family who came after, then it seems the article would be drawing a conclusion rather than stating a fact from the source. --Eewilson (talk) 18:01, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Kevin McCarthy (California politician)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Kevin McCarthy (California politician) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. — Shibboleth ink  (♔ ♕) 13:11, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Akhtar Hameed Khan Featured article review
I have nominated Akhtar Hameed Khan for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  16:46, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Request for comment: Remove "associated acts" parameter from musical artist infobox?
All editors are welcome to comment at Template_talk:Infobox_musical_artist where a WP:Request for comment is underway regarding proposed removal of the infobox parameter "associated acts". Binksternet (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:George Vincent (painter)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:George Vincent (painter) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. SkyWarrior 01:43, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Michael of Zahumlje GAR
Michael of Zahumlje has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. --Joy &#91;shallot&#93; (talk) 15:08, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Bradley Joseph
I have nominated Bradley Joseph for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Z1720 (talk) 21:39, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Kristen Stewart § Jewish ancestry, again
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Kristen Stewart § Jewish ancestry, again. &#x0020;Discussion of identifying someone as having an ethnic or national ancestry. Sundayclose (talk) 19:21, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Joel Selwood
I have nominated Joel Selwood for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Bumbubookworm (talk) 01:43, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Is Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart a good and sufficient source for musicologists' biographies?
German musicologists of the 20th century often have biographies in the MGG, sometimes written by themselves. I see two problems with using these biographies as the main sources of an article: 1. Self-written biographies are usually not good sources, and I'm not convinced that the editorial oversight of the MGG changes that. 2. I feel like the MGG has lower notability standards than we do (WP:NACADEMIC), so there are cases like Helmut Loos which end up as BLPs relying on only one source, which doesn't seem right. Am I overthinking this or is there a (minor) problem here? --188.97.58.6 (talk) 16:05, 18 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Hmm good question... Maybe discuss it also at WP:RSN? I would say we can generally trust the editorial oversight of the MGG, but if the only source (and thus source for notability) of a person is an entry in the MGG written by themselves, then that's not enough. Basically, if someone is notable enough, there should be more sources to be found than a self-written entry in the MGG, right? Mvbaron (talk) 19:06, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated Sasha (DJ) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Hog Farm Talk 17:30, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Taner Edis for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Taner Edis is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Taner Edis until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Santacruz &#8258;  Please tag me!  23:14, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Decline and fall of Pedro II of Brazil
I have come to notify this WikiProject of a Good Article Reassessment of Decline and fall of Pedro II of Brazil, an article related to this project, on behalf of SaturnFogg. This article has the potential of being delisted as a Good Article. The reassessment is being discussed at Good article reassessment/Decline and fall of Pedro II of Brazil/1. FredModulars (talk) 04:13, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

RfC on whether and how to cover J. K. Rowling's trans-related views in the lead of her article
Please see: Talk:J. K. Rowling

I am "advertising" this RfC more broadly to relevant pages because someone selectively notified three socio-political wikiprojects that are likely to vote-stack the RfC with a single viewpoint, and the article already has a long history of factional PoV editwarring.

Central matters in this discussion and the threads leading up to it are labeling of Rowling, labeling of commenters on Rowling, why Rowling is notable, what is due or undue in the lead section, and whether quasi-numeric claims like "many", "a few", etc. in this context are legitimate or an OR/WEASEL issue. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:37, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The idea of WikiProject Feminism and WikiProject Women Writers are likely to vote-stack the RfC with a single socio-political viewpoint suggests BLP issues on the part of the one posting. :p
 * But by all means, we do need fresh eyes on the lead of an article, which has seen so much whitewashing and FALSEBALANCE POV-based editing against the BALANCE of RS provided. Newimpartial (talk) 02:26, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

A class?
This Wiki Project used to have an A-class review system, which is now marked historical. Various articles were rated A-class. Is there currently any procedure of delisting an A-class article, such as Alan Keyes, which I don't think meets the A-class criteria of, say WikiProject Military History. Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 10:11, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The MILHIST people suggest that you drop a note at WT:MHC if you feel that an A-Class article no longer justifies that rating. I'm not aware of any similar mechanism for other WikiProjects. -- Red rose64 &#x1f339; (talk) 22:58, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

RFCs on Talk:Éric Zemmour
I would like to alert you to the RFCs currently active on Talk:Éric Zemmour. Fresh eyes would be helpful and this Wikiproject is relevant. Munci (talk) 05:52, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

RfC at Talk:Nicholas Wade
A Request for comment at Talk:Nicholas Wade could use some additional input to establish a consensus. See RfC here. Cheers, --Animalparty! (talk) 20:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Category:Citizens of X through descent
When should this category be used (e.g. Category:Citizens of Lebanon through descent)? Only in case someone became a citizen (through descent) later on in their life, or even if they were born citizens of that country, but abroad? Nehme1499 21:34, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Nehme1499 12:01, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
 * pinging users recently involved in this talk page. Nehme1499 16:02, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have no idea when this category should be used. You yourself created it... Mvbaron (talk) 16:13, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Mirroring the 27 other categories in Category:Citizens through descent (which is under this wikiproject). I just want to make sure that I'm not adding articles to the category that shouldn't be added. Nehme1499</b> 16:25, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure why I was pinged, but I have no interest in this issue, so don't expect any insight from me. Mlb96 (talk) 17:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
 * What Mlb96 said … Sandy Georgia (Talk)  19:24, 8 November 2021 (UTC)


 * It should probably never be used, per WP:COPDEF, WP:COPHERITAGE, WP:NONDEF and WP:TRIVIALCAT. Trivial category clutter for stamp collectors. Almost nobody is notable or noteworthy because of their citizenship, and if mentioned at all in any source, it's likely to be a rather trivial aspect. All subcategories of Category:Citizens through descent and Category:People with acquired citizenship should probably be deleted as well. --Animalparty! (talk) 20:34, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

==Discussion at WP:VPP § Requirement to contact copyright holders of existing content before allowing fair use== You are invited to join the discussion at WP:VPP § Requirement to contact copyright holders of existing content before allowing fair use. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:23, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

How to refer to changed family names?
I'm working on User:RoySmith/drafts/Claremont Park. A confusing aspect is that the family name has changed over time. Zborowski and Zabriskie are the ones that seem the most common, but https://archive.org/details/zabriskiefamilyt01zabr_0 also notes Zaborowskij as the original. Any thoughts on the best way to handle this? It would be easy if each person had a specific spelling, but sometimes I find sources which conflict on which version was used by a specific person.

I grew up in Northern NJ and used to go past the Zabriskie house in Paramus all the time. I was vaguely aware that he was an important historical figure, but not until I got into writing this article did I really learn anything about him. So, hurrah for Wikipedia :-) -- RoySmith (talk) 18:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

Vesey Alfred Davoren up for deletion
Has a big filmography. Was a silent film star. Appeared in movies for five decades. Certainly there are obituaries. For search purposes, he appears best known as Vesey O'Davoren. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 19:13, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Widespread overcategorisation problems: ethnicity, descent, ...
Is it just me, or there is a whole lot of categories which are misused to a point which obviously fails WP:NONDEFINING? Category:People by ethnic or national descent seems to be a prime example: this is often times based on some ancestor, whether a parent or grand-parent, but is not an important aspect of the actual article subject's notability (in the cases where it is, Category:People by ethnicity (which isn't itself entirely unproblematic) is probably more relevant. A random example would be John George Bourinot (younger) (who was classed as "Canadian people of Jersey descent", something which was not mentioned in the article at all...); or Howard Krein (someone notable for a few things, but not for his religion or his ethnicity).

These two also had the common problem of the "alumni" categories (where someone went to university/which university they thought is rarely a defining characteristic of the kind described at WP:NONDEFINING - and then you get to extreme examples like Einstein, which needs a whole lot of trimming...).

In any case, if there are others willing to try and address this issue, that'd be a nice start (and would help remove some of the excessive category bloat which can be seen on many pages). Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 01:59, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * I agree entirely re Category:People by ethnic or national descent. Any rename or upmerge cfd discussions on such will include 'delete the lot of them' remarks; not the case with alumni categories, particularly for universities. 'Descent by' does produce category clutter as some people (eg Ethan Ampadu) are in many of these whereas 'alumni' does not as most are in 1 or 2. Oculi (talk) 10:31, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Assistance Needed
Hello everyone,

I am mastetchi, I am working on the biography of David Eric Gokhshtein. I'd love if someone can assist me with editing what I have written. This is my first article. I need help please. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:David_Eric_Gokhshtein

Thanks Mastetchi (talk) 16:43, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Sumerian King List has an RFC
Sumerian King List has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Zoeperkoe (talk) 12:33, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Rob Roy McGregor (admiral) up for deletion
A question of notability and sourcing. <b style="color:#060">7&amp;6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 13:58, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

photo
Could someone familiar with commons remove  File:Monglolian rats.jpg  -- I have removed the article in which it was used DGG ( talk ) 05:58, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * If it's a non-free image, it will be automatically deleted. If it's on commons, we don't remove images that aren't used in articles (the overwhelming majority), and it's actually commons' purview, not ours. Kingsif (talk) 21:26, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Barthélemy Boganda
I have nominated Barthélemy Boganda for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  05:38, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

D. B. Cooper under FA review
I started FA review on D. B. Cooper. Your input and contributions are welcome. --George Ho (talk) 03:11, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Non-free images
I have a question for those more familiar with writing biographies and non-free images than I am. I have been in a multi-month email exchange with the World Archery Federation about them releasing a photograph of their former president, Inger K. Frith, for use in her article. I have been quoting commons licenses etc and whilst they were initially very positive to the idea, I get the impression someone there is loath to release control a picture completely. Could someone here familiar with the use of non-free files for biographies of deceased persons please advise the relevant enwiki policy for use of non-free images. If appropriate I will instead quote that to them and see if they are happy to release a picture with conditions. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 02:08, 16 December 2021 (UTC).
 * You don't need to inform a copyright holder when you are using a photograph under fair use (the non-free policy on en.wiki to which you refer). Once a person is dead and there are no free images of them, and it is clear it will be difficult to find free images of them, fair use is quite easy to claim. I suppose if you have been talking to these people for months it would be polite to tell them that, without a free image, you will be using a non-free image, properly attributed, under fair use, but you don't have to. I also wonder if they may be backing off because they realize they don't hold the copyright to photographs they own: if the person you are contacting is not the photographer (or, in certain situations, first publisher), they cannot release the image to you themselves. Another question is, based on Frith's year of birth, there may be some images you could find on the internet that were taken before a certain date that may mean, based on the country in which it was taken, the image has fallen into the public domain (whether someone claims to have copyright or not). Kingsif (talk) 02:43, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. The easiest would be to cut down and upload the photo in this article. I have searched pretty extensively and this is the only picture I have found. I might send them one more email explaining this course of action. Kind regards, Cavalryman (talk) 03:09, 16 December 2021 (UTC).
 * A quick search shows multiple images in this article for a start... Kingsif (talk) 05:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Tang Joon-sang
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tang Joon-sang that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 16:06, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

FAR notice re J. K. Rowling
An editor has nominated J. K. Rowling for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:04, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Demosthenes
I have nominated Demosthenes for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. (t &#183; c)  buidhe  04:22, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

Meaning of "from"
Many of our biography categories include the term "from". E.g., Category:People from Florida. There was recently a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football about what this means. There were varying responses as to whether "from" in these categories refers to a person's place of birth, the place where they grew up and completed their education, or their place of principal residence. I've generally assumed that "from" in this context is equivalent to "originating from" and have thus used place of birth, but there doesn't seem to be a standard practice. Nor have I found any official or unofficial guidance. Should we try to reach consensus and provide guidance on what is intended here? What do others think? Cbl62 (talk) 13:45, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Most people, if asked, will know where they are 'from'. I for instance am from Sheffield, although I was born in Cambridge and lived in Leeds until I was 8. This said, it is difficult to work out from an article where someone might be from. I doubt if John McEnroe thinks he is from Germany or whether John Lennon thought he was from New York (he was categorised 'from the Upper West Side' in earlier versions). There were categories 'natives of' (ie 'born in') but these were deleted around 2007, which I took to imply that 'from' and 'born in' were considered to be different. Oculi (talk) 14:10, 20 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I believe this is a well-justified use of constructive ambiguity, allowing the question to be decided by the balance of available sources and editors' judgement, rather than hard-and-fast rules. –&#8239;Joe (talk) 14:15, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Except drive-by editors and wikignomes will, say, see it applied as a birthplace in one article and then mass edit to apply it as such to others. However, if it is to be intentionally ambiguous, the category page descriptions should be updated to convey this.—Bagumba (talk) 14:26, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * If we do leave it to editor judgment, it might at least be helpful to offer examples of particular edge cases and principles as to how they should be resolved. E.g., (i) Joe Smith born in Chicago but moved to St. Louis at age six and lives in St. Louis thereafter for his entire life would be properly classified as "from St. Louis", (ii) Bill Jones born, raised, and educated in Boston, moves to Dallas at age 40, properly classified as "from Boston". We could also clarify that its fine to use multiple "from" categories where the nexus is strong with more than one location. Cbl62 (talk) 14:53, 20 December 2021 (UTC)


 * From can be taken to be synonymous with hometown, which is defined as "the city or town where one was born or grew up. Also : the place of one's principal residence". Those might be candidates for subcategories.—Bagumba (talk) 14:38, 20 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It's so subjective. I'm from suburb A adjacent to city W. I was born in a hospital in N but never lived there. I grew up in several places: six years in M, nine years in G, three years in B. (N, M, and G were all suburbs of large city Y.) Then there was college, when I technically lived in G again, but was at college in E.
 * When someone where I live asks me "Where are you from?", sometimes I reply "G" but more often I say "the Y area". When I'm traveling and someone asks me the same question, I'll probably answer "W" (even though I don't live in W, though I did over two non-consecutive periods totaling seven years), but sometimes, more accurately, "A".
 * So, quick: If I attained notability, where would Wikipedia think I was from?
 * If, on a related note, we felt the solution should be to disaggregate "from" categories into "born in" categories, "has lived in" categories, "lives in now" categories, etc., my article could categorize me under "People born in N", but what would the point be? It would be a fact, but it would also lead to no understanding of anything relevant to my being. It would be akin to "People who were in [place] on their third birthdays." Largoplazo (talk) 17:37, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Clarification on Birthplace details
Recently an editor has been removing the local parts of a birthplace in favour of the just city name with the edit summary of "City only, per guidelines", eg:
 * Gary Numan, Hammersmith, London to London
 * Virginia Woolf South Kensington, London to London
 * Charlie Watts Bloomsbury, London to London

Could someone clarify as to if this is correct? I cannot find any guidelines as such, and the only pointer I can find is in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Archive 36, Seeking info on birthplace convention. There a reply that states "The most relevant question is what do the sources say?" So it would appear that if the source for a persons birth states it in full, that should be used, not a trucated city only version (Assuming good faith in the editor who wrote that section). Is this correct? Sciencefish (talk) 18:15, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * All three of the pages you mentioned still contain the "local" part of the birth place (and even include the street or hospital for the birth place), and not just the city. I assume you are instead referring to the removal of content only from the infobox, and that is supported by the infobox guidelines, which say that the birth place should be "city, administrative region, county". See Template:Infobox person. – wallyfromdilbert (talk) 02:26, 25 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, infobox, and thanks for the pointer, it was right under my nose. Sciencefish (talk) 09:26, 25 December 2021 (UTC)

BLP mentions of contracting covid-19
Is there any precedent on WP that if an individual has C19 it must be stated on their page? Or is it in specifically notable cases, like if the person almost died from it, made donations to a fund following their recovery, donated their antibodies for research (eg. Tom Hanks), or contracted it after making controversial statements regarding the virus (eg. Brian May)? And is there a particular type of wording that should be used/avoided? Like if a label releases a statement concerning one of its artist's getting C19, and an editor writes that the label "claimed" the artist was negative at a certain date before quarantining after getting a positive result at a later date? -- Carlobunnie (talk) 03:34, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Must be? No, there is no requirement that any specific aspect of any person's life be reported in an article about that person.
 * If you meant to ask whether it may be stated, I'd say that unless a major impact on that person's life was reported, taking WP:NOTNEWS into account, it may in the near future come to seem the same as reporting whether a person has had chickenpox or the flu. In that light, it would make sense to mention it only in out-of-the-ordinary situations. I'm not stating this as a rule to follow, just suggesting a way to look at the question. Largoplazo (talk) 03:55, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Additions like this and this were made to those respective BLPs and to me it doesn't seem necessary since, as you put it (which is also my sentiments on the matter), no "major impact on that person's life" has been reported in either case so far, just that they tested positive. If something more serious were to come of it however, I'd have no question about that being noted. But I didn't/don't want to remove them prematurely in case it would be wrong to do so. -- Carlobunnie (talk) 04:22, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Makoto Soejima
Hi. This article has been floating around for a while but still hasn't been marked as reviewed yet. Could someone please review it if they have the time?

Thanks -Imcdc (talk) 03:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

AKM Nazmul Hasan
The wikibio for Bangladeshi Major General AKM Nazmul Hasan is currently at AfD. The article has numerous references with passing mentions of recent activity but little on his career. I suspect this is because the sources needed are in Bengali. I have posted at the Bangladesh WikiProject to ask for any editors who can read Bengali to look at the present reference 2 to a Government Weekly Gazette to check on what that reference says, to have a look for any Bengali-language sources that are more substantive, and to contribute to the AfD thread. It occurs to me that members of this WikiProject could ask have useful thoughts to offer on the article and the AfD. Of course, any and all contributions with whatever perspective are welcome and invited to both the article and the AfD, whether from Bengali-speakers or not. Information that suitable sources cannot be located would be just as useful to that discussion as locating suitable sources as the bio should not be preserved if Nazmul Hasan is not WP notable. 172.195.96.244 (talk) 23:50, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

January 2022 Women in Red
--Megalibrarygirl (talk) 16:01, 28 December 2021 (UTC) via MassMessaging

Sharon A. Hill has an RFC
Sharon A. Hill has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Santacruz &#8258;  Please ping me!  14:10, 29 December 2021 (UTC)