Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biota of Great Britain and Ireland

Standardisation
It seems like a lot will need to be done to get the lists and categories to all work nicely with each other. At the moment we have lists for Britain, Great Britain, British Isles and the United Kingdom. This seems a bit like overkill. I would like to tentatively propose that lists where Britain refers to the island (and surrounding islands excl. the Isle of Man, Channel Islands and Ireland) should be renamed Great Britain as per it's political definition. If we go by the geographical definition then it would be difficult to include surrounding islands.

We should lay out definitions of what each word is going to mean so no confusion arises in the future.

These sort of things need to be worked out early on so we can get onto the more interesting stuff! Cheers, Jack (talk) 01:59, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Makes sense. But be sensitive at the same time that if there are no articles for "Ireland", it doesn't make sense to use the label "British Isles" on some categories.  In the past I put in a move request for the Category:Lists of insects in the British Isles because it only had articles referring to Britain, but nobody cared enough to vote :-)  The first step should be to overhaul the categories although also be aware that sometimes the word "British" appears to be used to include any part of the UK.  The standard scientific reporting appears to either be by region/island (as in Great Britain or Ireland), or by the archipelago (British Isles).  So if the category only refers to articles on Great Britain fauna, it should be named "Great Britain", and if it refers to "British Isles" it should be named as such.  What do you think?  --HighKing (talk) 12:35, 26 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, each article should be looked at individually. We should aim to get a full set of 'List of {family} of Great Britain' and 'List of {family} of Ireland' to start off with. Cheers, Jack (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

WP 1.0 Category creation
WP 1.0 Assessment Category Tree was created per request of Jack. You may check Category:Biota of Great Britain and Ireland articles by quality and Category:Biota of Great Britain and Ireland articles by importance. --  Tinu  Cherian  - 05:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Adding banner and categories
I've come to a problem which will increase as Wikipedia continues to grow. Categorising species articles with every country they are found in means articles clogged with categories (there are many examples);this has been discussed before extensively. The same goes for the banner, if we add the BGBI banner to every species and every other Country WikiProject did the same, the talk page would become cluttered with banners. Maybe if we keep it to categorisation of lists and overviews of biota rather than individual species (at least for the moment)? Jack (talk) 16:27, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Others responding to my query have been in favour of tagging individual species with Category:Fauna of Great Britain, etc. so that's what we shall do. Any animal species native to Great Britain or Ireland should be placed in Category:Fauna of Great Britain unless it has a sub-category such as Category:Lists of insects of Great Britain. The talk pages should also be tagged with the BGBI banner: . Cheers, Jack (talk) 17:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Requested moves that may interest project members
A number of related articles, some of which are tagged as being within the remit of this project, have been nominated for a name change which involves changing the capitalization scheme used. They are:
 * Special Protection Area,
 * Area of Conservation,
 * Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty,
 * Site of Special Scientific Interest, and
 * Special Area of Conservation

(the links point to the discussion of the requested moves.) Members may wish to comment on the requests both for and against the proposed moves. I'm not sure where else notices could be posted to get as wide a discussion as possible, both for and against the requests), and so would appreciate people identifying appropriate projects and posting similar messages there.  DDStretch    (talk)  09:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Start-class, high importance
I see by the rating table that we have one start-class, high importance article, and one similar list. Which articles are these? I think they should be a priority for this project. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Rummage through categories and ye shall find: They're Conservation in the United Kingdom and List of endangered species in the British Isles. Totnesmartin (talk) 10:24, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, that's always the best place to start with projects. There's a lot more tagging of articles that needs to be done, for example the whole plant side of the project which hasn't been recognised yet. When I've got a bit of time after my exams I'll get some more tagged so we can work out a more clear system of rating articles by importance (which I've started a section below). Oh and: Welcome to the project! If you know any others who might be interested in this WikiProject don't hesitate to invite them, I'm sure we need all the help we can get! Cheers, Jack (talk) 17:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

How to determine importance of articles
This is a suggestion how we rate the importance of articles, feel free to comment and make suggestions on improvements.


 * Top importance: Fauna of Great Britain, Fauna of Ireland, Flora of Great Britain, Flora of Ireland
 * High importance: Overviews of topics e.g. Conservation in the United Kingdom
 * Mid importance: Species lists
 * Low importance: Organisations, species articles, SSSIs and alike

I've probably left out some groups of articles, but this is just a rough guide. Maybe something from low importance should be upgraded? I think this project should mainly concentrate on the organisation and ensure a wide coverage, rather than spend time improving (for example) the European Badger article. There are other WikiProjects dedicated to that purpose. Jack (talk) 17:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Channel Islands & others
Great Britain presents a slightly bigger problem other than just eliminating Ireland from "British and Irish" or Northern Ireland from UK, and that is some of the outlying islands. Clearly (to me at least), the Channel Islands do not fit into any definition of GB. Technically, the Isle of Man also presents a problem. I assume that the definition of GB that we are using for fauna and flora is the political one (given that the 1000+ small islands are otherwise going to slip through the net), which therefore precludes the IoM. Then again, IoM is so close to the British coast as to make splitting if potentially nonsensical. So, do we include the Isle of Man in our definition of GB or not? And, what do we do about the Channel Islands (ideally, I guess someone would do separate lists for them)? Cheers—GRM (talk) 13:02, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think we should include the Channel Islands - while they have a distinct political status, this isn't a politics wikiproject. They are considered more British than any other-ish, and it does no harm to include them. The very few life forms that occur there but not the "main" British Isles aren't really going to strain our limits. What do other people here think? Totnesmartin (talk) 14:17, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I disagree with including the Channel Islands - see Flora Europaea for a list of two letter region codes and the Channel Islands are considered part of France (code GA).  I agree with keeping the politics out of this, but since the Channel Islands are not part of the same geographic land structure, it doesn't make sense to include them.  The Isle of Man is considered part of Britain (code BR), so no problems there. --HighKing (talk) 17:19, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well if we use Flora Europaea's coding (which I didn't know about) we have a defined region to refer to if anyone else brings this up - so let's go with that. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:47, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I would also agree with HighKing. However, it is obviously still a contentious issue and I doubt everyone will be satisfied with the definitions of what this WikiProject covers. I find the problem arises that flora and fauna are generally covered by geographical boundaries and that Great Britain in species lists often seems to include the outlying islands (though not the Channel Islands). Jack (talk) 19:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, so IoM in, Channel Islands out. Thanks—GRM (talk) 19:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

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No Parking Whitebeam
...is a new article. The only info I can find so far is a couple of news websites. Can anyone find more, eg the paper that identifies it as a species? Totnesmartin (talk) 12:36, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This paper mentions the species, though I don't have access to it. Also not sure if it's the describing paper, in not it may mention the authors in the references. Jack (talk) 14:28, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The paper decsribing it is in the current issue of Watsonia - see the BSBI website for details. SP-KP (talk) 18:47, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The parts of Watsonia that are online don't mention it, but I found the title in an online article. I'm not going to use the original paper as a citation though, as I haven't seen it - just the title. Looks like we're stuck with news reports, unless anyone has any better ideas. Totnesmartin (talk) 20:48, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the website is just lagging behind the published version. You could always email them and ask them when it'll be there. I've got a copy of the paper if there's anything you particularly needed to check. SP-KP (talk) 09:39, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I was hoping to get it done quickly so i coul DYK it. It still needs one or two hundred characters of content (refs don't count as content) to qualify on length grounds, and the deadline is Monday. If you could add more on the technical distinction between this and other Whitebeams that'd be grand. I must say I'm rather amazed that this little crowded island can still turn up 14 new species of tree, and all from one genus. Totnesmartin (talk) 11:15, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

OK, here's some info from the paper:


 * the holotype is a large tree above scree at Watersmeet in Vice-county 4, North Devon, Grid Ref SS744490, material collected on 10 Oct 2007 and stored in the National Museum of Wales


 * It is a member of the Sorbus latifolia group


 * Description: similar to Sorbus devoniensis, but differing in having leaves more deppely lobed, 10-23% of the way to the midrib at the centre of the lamina - not 6-18% as in devoniensis; the leaves of admonitor are also glossier than those of devoniensis


 * It's endemic to the Watersmeet area, where there are at least 108 trees in the East Lyn Valley and two trees nearby above Sillery Sands, Lynmouth.


 * Sorbus devoniensis doesn't grow in the East Lyn valley and the two taxa have not been confirmed as growing together


 * The name "admonitor" was first coined by E.F. Warburg


 * It has an IUCN conservation assessment of Endangered

Hope that helps SP-KP (talk) 11:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * that's great, thanks! Totnesmartin (talk) 15:49, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

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Royal Society for the Protection of Birds People
I have created Category:Royal Society for the Protection of Birds People. Please fell free to apply it where appropriate. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 11:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Rare Breeding Birds Panel
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Beetle bug?
I took this picture



But I don't know what the bug/beetle is, does anyone know what it is so I can update the information on wikicommons, then maybe I can also add it to the wikipedia page if no image exists. cheers. Govvy (talk) 19:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It is a species of bush-cricket, but I don't know which one. Try BugClub Yahoo! Group or search the web for identification images (there is a site somewhere)—GRM (talk) 20:44, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

List of mammals of the UK
Someone has recently move the list of GB mammals to list of UK mammals, claiming that lists should be by state rather than by island. I'm sure we had similar discussion when most of the fauna lists were moved from "British" to GB. It does seem to me that most fauna lists are officially maintained on an island or "British Isles" (GB + Ireland) basis. Is there therefore good grounds for reverting the move?—GRM (talk) 20:42, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

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Unreferenced living people articles bot
Okip  01:28, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Biota of Great Britain and Ireland articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
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WikiProject cleanup listing
I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 21:15, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Britain and Ireland versus British Isles
Is there anyone in this project with actual real world expertise in the field that can explain why and when the term "Great Britain and Ireland" versus "British Isles" was first chosen?

The complications are obvious and well trodden. It is clear than none of the principles intended to exclude the Isle of Man and Channel Islands and that properly they are not. My reading at present suggests that it was first used back in the Victorian Period and has since stuck. Either it was not a conscious decision, or it was a chauvinist decision born of the days of the British/English Empire and when the two were one. Can anyone say how and when it first entered common use, what the general opinion about their use in academia is, if the British/Irish politics arises and how they are dealt with? Thank you.--LevenBoy (talk) 02:56, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * This is the original proposal page for this WikiProject which talked about its naming. It's obviously a difficult issue for us, especially as the references we need to use to make the list pages will take different classification depending on whether it's flora or fauna. I'm afraid I have no knowledge on the historical usage. Cheers, Jack (talk) 11:39, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. That makes sense. I had no idea HighKing was involved in this Britain and Ireland versus British Isles thing back as far as March/August 2008. It is still going on over at WP:BISE


 * If there is anyone else with real world expertise in these fields, I would be very interested in reading their comments.--LevenBoy (talk) 15:14, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * LevenBoy why do you continue to make comments about other editor and what difference does it make about when anyone got involved in this or any other subject on Wikipedia? Please stick to content. Bjmullan (talk) 15:23, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Citation templates now support more identifiers
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Invitation to assist in adding donated content: GLAM/ARKive
I am the Wikipedia Outreach Ambassador to ARKive, who have kindly agreed to donate an initial 200 article texts about endangered species from their project, to Wikipedia, under a CC-BY-SA license. Details are on the GLAM/ARKive project page. The donated texts include many about UK wildlife. Your help, to merge the donated texts into articles, would be appreciated. Guidelines for doing so are also on the above page. Once articles have been expanded using the donated texts, we are also seeking assistance in having those articles translated into other languages. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns, on the project's talk page, or my own. Andy Mabbett (User: Pigsonthewing ); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 15:11, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Name for article on vice-counties
See Talk:Watsonian_vice-counties. Opinions sought! Peter coxhead (talk) 10:23, 2 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Agreed on Vice-counties, at least for the present. See also below. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Current "administrative units" and the vice-counties of Ireland
In the article Vice-counties, which is currently being revised and expanded, there is a brief discussion and a table describing the relationship between the current "administrative units" (counties, unitary authorities, etc.) in Great Britain (=England, Wales and Scotland) and the vice-counties used for biological recording.

There should be something similar for Ireland, both the Republic and Northern Ireland, so that someone who knows only the modern "administrative units" (counties, districts, or whatever) can relate them to the vice-counties as set up by Praeger in 1901. Is anyone here able to add such a section? Peter coxhead (talk) 14:05, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK - I've added a table broken into county, province and country based on the vice-counties of Ireland. --HighKing (talk) 14:51, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but of course that's the easy bit (and the bit that doesn't arouse passions!). The difficult bit is relating the VCs to the current "administrative units" (and yes, I have seen the very long discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland). This hasn't been done properly yet for England (I added the West Midlands). I'm sure that there are many English readers (and editors) who feel equally strongly about the abolition/alteration of the historic English counties; however we need to serve those who do want to know about the relationship between VCs and current administrative authorities (not least because the latter are often where there is some money to pay for biological recording). Peter coxhead (talk) 15:53, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Local Nature Reserves
There are differences of opinion on whether we should refer to LNRs as Local Nature Reserves or local nature reserves. This seems like the sensible place to establish consensus on the topic. Any views? SP-KP (talk) 18:58, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Watson-Praeger vice-counties
I have just created an entry for each Watson-Praeger vice-county in the UK, Ireland and the Isle of Man, in Wikidata.

See list of IDs at:


 * http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist2.php?language=en&project=wikipedia&category=&depth=12&wdq=claim[31%3A7925010]&mode=undefined&statementlist=&run=Run&label_contains=&label_contains_not=&chunk_size=10000
 * (slow to load)

or at:


 * https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=Q7925010&namespace=0
 * (may include other items linking to the parent item, later)

For example, VC39, Staffordshire, is Q17581852:


 * https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q17581852

While they don't have individual Wikipedia articles, those of you who edit Wikidata can use them as a property for nature reserves, etc, which fall within a single VC. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:38, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
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Expert attention
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WikiProject X is live!


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List of local nature reserves in Somerset at FLC
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Proposed deletion of List of United Kingdom bird clubs and ornithological societies


The article List of United Kingdom bird clubs and ornithological societies has been proposed for deletion&#32;because of the following concern:
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Vandalism
I was referring to List of mammals of Great Britain to convert zoological names to vernacular ones. In the process I discovered it was vandalised on the 8th February and misfixed on the 15th February. I thought I'd let you know that this vandalism had got through the defenses. Lavateraguy (talk) 13:17, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

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User script to detect unreliable sources
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