Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Capital District/Archive 1

Importance rankings
To head off everyone ranking their particular village, town, city, local politician, and little league team as high importance I think it is important to come up with consensus as to what will be top, high, medium, low, and start. Obviously the Capital District page itself is of Top importance. What about the core cites of the main metro area- Albany-Schenectady-Troy. What about Saratoga Springs? High or Top? Glens Falls, the core city of another metro area in the CD? Amsterdam? Do we rank importance of cities based on population? What about towns, villages, hamlets and census designated places, the Town of Colonie is larger than everything except Albany so does it get Top because Schenectady (if Schenectady does get top) which is smaller does, or just High or lower because its not a core city? That's just the problem with ranking municipalities, there's still people, buildings, infrastructure (roads, airports, etc), politicians, historical events (Battle of Saratoga), and lots more that need a loose but definitive guideline. Camelbinky (talk) 02:54, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Albany, Schenectady, Troy: top, top, top. They are the basis of the region. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 03:57, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I would also consider the articles on the individual counties in the CD to be of top-importance as well. Daniel Case (talk) 21:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree, but base it on the definition of the region: Albany, Schenectady, Rensselaer, Saratoga, top, top, top, top. Columbia, Greene, etc, not so high. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 15:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I have thought about adding Hudson Valley (magazine) to the CD project since it does cover Albany, Rensselaer, Columbia, and Greene counties (according to the article). I just thought I would find if anyone had any opinion whether it really covers enough (as I have never actually read it) to justify being in this project.Camelbinky (talk) 03:00, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Common sense suggestion
As I've been tagging, I've been assessing importance and quality. I suggest that for the most part, the members of this project estimate importance and quality based on common sense (in addition to the assessment guidelines of Wikipedia). For the bigger articles, let list those articles here see what everyone else thinks. Typically the quality will already have been assessed by a previous assessor; it's the importance that we really need to get down. With respect to small towns, villages, etc, Low importance is a safe bet unless something significant happened there for some reason. I'll start: ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Albany County, New York
 * High importance; C-Class ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:38, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Colonie, New York
 * Tagged as High importance; I feel it shouldn't be above Mid. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 01:34, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I just want to make sure which Colonie you are refering to. The town of Colonie is second in population only to Albany itself. Around 80,000 people, making it larger than the city of Schenectady. Most likely after the 2010 census we'll find the town is now larger than the city of Albany making it the largest municipality in the CD. The village I can see being of low importance. The town includes both villages of Colonie and Menands, along with CDP and hamlets of Latham and Loudonville, the airport, Colonie Center and Latham Circle Mall. Thats just some of the important things covered in the town. I can agree to mid level and have changed it to reflect this two person consensus, just wanted to make sure everyone realized what is being called Colonie in this instance, in a lot of people's heads Latham is something distinct, but it is in the town. Can we have a discussion on Saratoga Springs then? Only 25,000 people and not a county seat, so I would say mid as well then right? Camelbinky (talk) 05:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I dont think I've ever disagree with Wadester, but this has been bugging me about the town of Colonie being labeled of mid importance and not high. My above comments still stand as reasons to promote to high importance along with the following facts- the chamber of commerce is the Albany-Colonie Chamber of Commerce, the former baseball team at the old Heritage Park was the Albany-Colonie Diamond Dogs, the fact that the town continues to have more and more weight in county-wide elections and decisions, the town is a political unit with its own government and provides all the services that Troy or Schenectady provides, town traffic and criminal courts, town police force, town sewer and water districts, etc. The Times Union is located there as well as Wolf Road (branded in the past couple years as the "downtown of the Capital Region"). It is larger than any other municipality except the city of Albany, has more people than Schenectady, almost twice that of Troy, more than three times that of Saratoga Springs, more people than Columbia, Fulton, Greene, Montgomery, Schoharie, Warren, or Washington counties. Is the objection to a higher importance for Colonie the fact that it is a town? A town in NY is a legally incorporated municipality just like a city is. This is from Administrative divisions of New York- '''Whether a municipality is a city, town or village is not dependent on population or area, but on the form of government selected by the residents and approved by the state legislature. New York State considers counties, cities, towns and villages to be "municipal corporations" and "general purpose" units of local government.''' Why discriminate against the importance of Colonie based on the type of government the residents choose to have, or is there a different objection based on something other than it being a town?Camelbinky (talk) 23:08, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Saratoga Springs, New York
 * Mid importance says Camelbinky
 * Agree. I remembered learning that Ballston Spa is the county seat from doing tagging tonight. That surprised me. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 05:48, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * People in general
 * Anyone have any suggestions on guidelines for people who were born/lived/buried in the CD? Some prominent people who lived in this area who went on to national fame include Alexander Hamilton (got married in Albany, wife is from prominent Albany family, had law firm here, made disparaging comments in a house in Albany that led to his fatal dual, house is still there I believe, north side of State Street, same block as the Episcopal Church), Andrew Cuomo went to Albany Law School, the last lt. governor that Pataki had was a former school teacher at the Sand Lake school district and still lives in Rensselaer County (cant remember her name), Sam Wilson/ aka Uncle Sam, the president who is buried in Albany Rural Cemetery (who is that again?!). I bring up those people because they arent notable that much in a CD-related manner, but are from the region, its easier to classify people who have regional importance (though it should still be talked about here),whereas people who simply lived/born/died here but did important things in a national-sense are harder to classifyCamelbinky (talk) 05:57, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Empire State Plaza
 * My gut-feeling says high since a photo of it is pretty much the logo of this wikiproject and its probably the most identifiable building(s) in the CD, my only concern is that this wikiproject ends up being very biased towards Albany and the Tri-city area and alienates editors who like to work on communities on the fringes (We could end up losing Warren and Washington County including the city of Glens Falls to any future North Country wikiproject or Montgomery and Fulton Counties including the city of Amsterdam to any future Mohawk Valley Wikiproject).Camelbinky (talk) 19:31, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * High. I think people that live on the fringes are used to the tri-city area being featured more than them in every day life. And if they get taken by future WikiProjects, so be it I guess. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 04:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Commons categorization
"It is also the goal of this project to add commons:Category:New York Capital District to all media relating to the area on Wikimedia Commons.".

This objective could be most readily achieved by adding the three county cats to this category. It needs very few files (the map is one). Adding every individual file to the NYCD cat would be needlessly duplicative. Daniel Case (talk) 21:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I just did this. Daniel Case (talk) 21:57, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thank you! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 21:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Map
I stumbled upon this map and was wondering what you think. I like this better than the original one because it is monochromatic and offers lighter shades for the counties that are in the CD limbo. I'd suggest replacing the original with this one on the project page and the navbox (btw, thanks for the correction from geobox). Any other thoughts on it? ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 15:59, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree it is much better and that it should replace the current multi-colored map (which I'm guessing is colored to represent each individual MSA in the area). In an ideal map (sometime in the future, not nec. anytime soon) maybe have Warren County and Fulton County added to the shaded limbo zone.Camelbinky (talk) 01:33, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Good, I'm glad you agree. I'm going to switch them out. Thanks. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 03:19, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Done deal, it seems, but I support this too. Daniel Case (talk) 17:13, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * New image made thanks to the Graphics Lab. See right. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 22:20, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Name of wikiproject
Seeing that this is a new wikiproject, could the name of the wikiproject be discussed and revised sooner rather than later. I expect that it is pretty obviously confrontational vs. other Capital Districts and/or Capitol Districts in the world, to take the name Capital District for the wikiproject. Or, is the scope of the project intended to address all other capital districts, besides the New York State one?

If people here are not aware, there are formally designated, official capital districts in other parts of the world. The Ottawa-Carleton region in Canada, for one, although I am not looking up its formal official name right now.

I guess i would rather there be some discussion and consensus for a rename here. If not, I expect there will be ongoing controversy at a certain level, and lower participation here in your perfectly good intentions to develop a wikiproject about the Albany, New York area. By the way, I am not clear yet on how/why the mapped out borders for this district are being defined. Is this an official district, at any governmental level, or is this a Wikipedia Wikiproject-only defined region. There do exist official / semi-official partitions of New York State which could be used to adjust this WikiProject's scope right now, I believe. doncram (talk) 20:55, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I went with the name used because the article on the location is Capital District. I would have no problem going with New York Capital District. And as noted in the article, this is an imprecise region based upon four counties in New York. It is not state-designated area; it's similar to the term upstate New York. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 01:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I vote (if we are taking votes?) that we leave the name of the wikiproject as is, since Capital District is the name of the article on this topic and not the disambiguation page. I dont think other "capital districts" capitalize the name as such, Mexico's is a Federal District (English equivalent given). I'm not sure about Canada but I always thought that Ottawa was in Ontario and was not politically separate. Maybe this is something that needs time to work out and not be taken care of sooner rather than later. We can always change in the future if people complain "Hey, I came here wanting to work on capital district pages around the world".Camelbinky (talk) 01:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see Talk:Capital District where i am opening a discussion towards renaming that article. That article should be named "Capital District, New York," or some other more precise name, in my view. doncram (talk) 02:28, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This from Ottawa- There is no federal capital district in Canada. Ottawa is a municipality within the Province of Ontario. Although it does not constitute a separate administrative district, Ottawa is part of the federally designated National Capital Region, which includes the neighbouring Quebec municipality of Gatineau. Camelbinky (talk) 01:40, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * (ec) I think it is early in a discussion to Vote yet. I think it would help to get some of the issues and possibilities out first. I do think that the present name would tend to attract many other people who would complain, and it would tend not to attract the greater Albany area people that you do want to attract. doncram (talk) 01:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * There is an official partition of New York State into 11 tourism regions, defined at http://www.iloveny.com/MapsRegions/OurRegions.aspx. That includes a "Capital-Saratoga Region", which looks approximately but not exactly the same as your intended region.  Perhaps it would be natural to adjust your intended region to adopt exactly its boundaries.  It has a nice PDF highway map which provides easy lookup for whether any given place is inside the tourist region or not.  Also, just based off of the tourist region's chosen name, I would wonder if your preferred name should include Saratoga explicitly, i.e. be "WikiProject: New York Capital-Saratoga Region".  That could make sense if it is not commonly understood that the Capital region would include Saratoga and if you do want Saratoga included.  I would entirely defer to you and other locals about that point.  Whichever choice for wikiproject name, your wikiproject definition/explanation could link to the Capital-Saratoga Region tourist region and clarify if it covers all of that and/or parts of other such regions. doncram (talk) 01:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Another consideration is your relationship to WikiProject Hudson Valley. It is not absolutely essential that yours does not overlap, but theirs already is defined to include Albany county and other counties in your currently defined district.  It would seem sensible to me that yours and/or theirs could adjust boundaries so that they are not overlapping though.  I am not aware of any other geo-based wikiprojects that overlap like this, having comparable but overlapping regions.  (There are many examples of subregions like WikiProject New Orleans within WikiProject Louisiana, but those are clearly at different, non-comparable levels.  Daniel Case is a principal member of the Hudson Valley wikiproject (not sure if he was the original founder or not) and could comment here.  Daniel, would you please? doncram (talk) 01:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I wasn't the founder of HVNY (that honor goes to Juliancolton), but to reiterate what I've been saying elsewhere over the last couple of days, except in cases where geography or politics imposes very clear bounds (New York City, Long Island, the Adirondacks), most of New York's regions overlap to some extent. Should we decide a WikiProject Catskills to be needed, at least half of the entries (in the east) will overlap with HVNY. This project would have to work things out re its northern boundary with a possible WikiProject Adirondacks (which, should it ever exist, I would suggest calling WikiProject Adirondacks and North Country to take in those areas outside the Blue Line). Daniel Case (talk) 17:12, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope to get to at least some of your considerations here, though working against this renaming issue on two fronts (here and on the article page) is time consuming and I think unnecessary and puts a strain on all of us on either side. First- the issue of the Capital-Saratoga name, that's a non-issue, other than that one unofficial geographical naming by the state of New York its not used, by anyone local or not. That was a politically motivated name pushed by the vocal tourism supporters of Saratoga County. The MSA which makes up the majority of the CD is the Albany-Schenectady-Troy MSA, of which there is no doubt Saratoga County is a part of. There was debate about the Capital-Saratoga region on the Albany, New York page (currently in archives I believe) and anyone suggesting that name should check it out. Capital District is a well-documented and used term for Albany and seems to be unique in the United States, even DC is not referred to as such in common usage. As far as a Capital District page being found by locals everyone would find it just fine if capitalized, otherwise if not capitalized "D" (as I found out when I was new to wikipedia) you get sent Capital districts and territories where you then have to go to the bottom of the page, and decide on your own to click on capital region and THEN see on that disambiguation page there is the Capital District with a capital d that is about the one you are looking for, but if someone were looking for capital districts in general, they would type capital district without any capitalizations, and most certainly not a capital D, and go straight to the disamb. page of capital districts and territories. Somewhere around 100 pages wikilink to the current Capital District page so obviously lots of editors of many other pages have found to link to the current one about the Albany area. As for non-locals getting mad- where have they been for the last 5 years the page has existed? One user seemed to notice when this wikiproject was created, where was everyone else who "stumbled" across the Capital District article in the past 5 years? They all never mentioned it on the talk page of the article? Not one? As I mentioned on the talk page there is a disambiguation page already existing. It isnt perfect, but it works. I am concerned that anyone now complaining that its confusing would only be giving their opinion based on this discussion and some preconcieved notions of "unfairness" towards other capital districts or capital regions suddenly being brought up and not because they themselves actually ended up at Capital District when looking for a different district. Everyone who has an opinion obviously is allowed and welcomed to comment (and if it goes to a vote to a vote), but is it then based on the article truly having a confusing name, or just based on people saying "MY capital district has a parantheses so should THEIRS or else its not fair"? What becomes fair then?Camelbinky (talk) 03:54, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I call not it for fixing all those 100 links to the article. Obviously putting in a redirect from Capital District to a new name wouldn't make sense, so all those links would have to be replaced. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 04:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I suggest discussing the name of the Capital District article at Talk:Capital District, and discussing the name of the wikiproject in the proposal at WikiProject Council/Proposals which Wadester responsively opened. Thanks! doncram (talk) 04:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

As I have informed both Wadester16 and Doncram, I am taking myself out of this discussion. If anyone has any questions, wishes my opinion, wants clarification on a point I would be happy to answer any posted on my talk page. I have contributed to many articles on the subject and have much info on the Capital District (or whatever we are calling it) especially on the history of said region. I hope I didnt offend anyone and no ill-feelings here. Let's all drink a beer, eat a cookie, and compromise soon.Camelbinky (talk) 04:46, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Logistics/procedure on starting this wikiproject
Informational question: did this WikiProject go through the recommended process of proposal and discussion at WikiProject Council/Proposals? Or was it just opened?

If it has not gone through the proposal process, I think it is worth discussing the viability of this WikiProject with or without a name change that would be more supportive of the project's success, at the Proposals page. I would rather not see the time of the founders' wasted in a project that does not meet their initial expectations, if starting out better could be effected. There are at least three other New York State wikiprojects whose experiences could be considered, too, in the project proposal phase. doncram (talk) 21:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Didn't know there was a proposal process. New to making WikiProjects, but I am dedicated to keep it going. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 01:11, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, then I do think that opening a proposal there would be helpful. There are experienced editors/administrators there who have in mind larger frameworks about naming conventions and so on.  And I think they would be likely to have good advice on points i can't imagine right now.  It's good you have enthusiasm, certainly that is needed.  There have been other projects such as WikiProject Syracuse (which i joined after it was completely dead), though, which were started but died out completely, perhaps because their scope was not defined broadly enough and/or there was burnout of founders that might possibly have been avoidable somehow.  The proposal process is supposed to help with getting a WikiProject defined well.  There is a voting process there, by the way, but i don't think it would be used to ban a given proposal or already-started WikiProject.  I am not all that familiar with the processes there though.  Wadester16, would you be comfortable opening a proposal there, explaining the current status? doncram (talk) 02:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Sure I can do that. I'm working to make this a real and respectable WikiProject. This is a learning experience, obviously, and I'm working to get the Assessment 1.0 bot operating so that our project template will lead to the generation of a table listing all of our articles. I've received help from a veteran WikiProject dude, who had this to say, so I have yet to do the updates, but I'm working on it (school is in session, so it may be slow - but steady). This is an endeavor for me, but I'm taking it. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 02:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposal made. All members, please consider supporting the proposal. Thanks! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 03:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Major Updates
As promised, I completely revamped the project template and have fully integrated the Version 1.0 Editorial Team Index chart for use in this project (see also the infobox on the project page). All 35 of the pages that have been tagged (current count) with our template have been updated and are now successfully categorized for our ease of use. On that note, I did encounter one error. If you have created a WikiProject or worked on the index, could you take a look at the full index (scroll down to "Capital District articles by quality" and figure out why the CD listing produces a bad wikilink? I can't figure it out.

Keep up the good work, and happy tagging! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 21:01, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Also, the Capital District articles by quality page doesn't create a heading correctly. This is related to the problem I mention just above. Somehow extra code gets in the original code and it looks like it screws it up? Thanks for looking into it if you do. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 21:15, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:54, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Resolved error
I dont currently know how to fix the problems W mentioned, but I have found another problem, I think. The table it generates lists the FA, GA, A, B, C etc articles, then a subtotal of Assessed, then a total. What about the Unassessed? I believe that should show up on the table as well, perhaps a look at the New York State wikiproject would shed some light on this. Otherwise why have a subtotal that is always going to be equal to the total?Camelbinky (talk) 22:27, 24 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually I think this was due to the fact that every single tagged article was assessed! I just tagged Pittstown, New York but did not assess its class. When I reran the bot, it gave me this. Naturally, I've added an assessment to the article since, so that link is not superseded. Apparently it only adds a row or column if that type of article exists... which makes sense when you think about it. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The other ones that are unassessed are actually due to a rampage it seems you guys started on to tag articles just as I reran the bo. Nice work! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:42, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems to be ok now. Looks like it was any combination of Category:Unassessed Capital District articles and Category:WikiProject Capital District articles not being added to Category:WikiProject Capital District. There's bound to be a few hiccups at first, so let me know if there's any other problems. Best, --Jh12 (talk) 00:50, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks Jh12! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There are 126, possibly more now, unassessed CD articles, and they still arent showing up on the table, there's just the assessed subtotal and total. Is it something we are doing when adding the template to the talk page? I guess I can go to all 126 when I have time and assess them, but I'd rather not.Camelbinky (talk) 01:15, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, they're all there: see Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Capital District articles by quality statistics. It's because the statistics table on WikiProject Capital District is transcluded from a template and Wikipedia is lagging. It can be refreshed immediately if you Purge the page, although it will be updated eventually. It seems like Wikipedia servers used to be a lot quicker, but c'est la vie --Jh12 (talk) 01:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It also has to do with the fact that I haven't run the bot in more than a half hour. You guys have probably added many articles since then. I'll run it again, then you can purge the CD page or go directly to the table. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 01:40, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can feel free to run the bot yourself as well. Just go here and type in "Capital District" in the box. Then either go here or purge the CD page to see the update. The bot normally runs every 3 days, so we would have to wait a long time to see updates. With this tool, you can force it; but it may take time because you are in line behind other users doing the same thing. The log is also a good place to check out. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 01:46, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * AH! I wasnt aware of that, that also solves a problem I've been having with a "To-do" box in some articles, I apparently need to purge the one it so the update shows up! I feel soooo stupid. I guess its true, you learn something new everyday. This is what wikipedia is about, people helping others and fixing problems together and listening. Now if we could everyone to feel that way our some of our problems wouldnt have happened in the first place!Camelbinky (talk) 02:00, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Up and running (pretty much...)
You'll notice I've removed the template. I feel we are at a pretty good spot right now in the development of the project. We have five very dedicated members, as can be seen by the fact that almost 200 articles have already been tagged with our template. The Version 1.0 index is successfully working (now without problems!). Per Camelbinky's suggestion, I have included an assessments page, which you can all feel free to add yourselves to. I have made sure each community labeled in the navbox actually has the navbox in it (roughly half did not, strangely). I feel good about the fact that our WPHV members don't seem to feel that we are treading on their feet and agree that this area is itself something different (in the vernacular of locals at least) from the Hudson Valley, which is typically assumed to mean the southern Hudson Valley. I think this project will do a fine job of bringing articles about the area up to a high level. I myself found articles about things I never would have expected just by looking at the articles by quality page. Thanks everyone for your help in the initial stages of this and thanks for the support at proposals! Cheers! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 06:44, 25 January 2009 (UTC)


 * The page got a very noticeable update. Note that to edit the content, you have to edit the templates, which are just subpages of the main project page. Simple way is to click the edit button of a given section. Have fun, and hopefully you enjoy the update! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 05:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Articles that need to be made/need attention and expansion
Also, I wonder if the listing of articles needed should be moved out of this Talk page, to a WikiProject page. This doesn't seem like a Discussion, it is a list instead. Perhaps something like: WikiProject Capital District/NYCD Articles Needing Attention, to follow an example used by some wikiprojects. Occasional discussion about articles from such a list can happen here, but adding new items and updating their status seems more suitable edits for a separate, permanent list article. doncram (talk) 19:17, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I started the page, renamed it so it would be off the main wikipedia wikiproject page instead of the talk page so it would have its own discussion page where any discussions can be posted instead of here.Camelbinky (talk) 22:12, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:03, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Clear up hamlet articles
Since there is/was a very minor disagreement on the Loudonville, New York article about how to reference hamlets or how to define them or how to know that a certain place even is a hamlet I suggest certain things about hamlet articles in the CD should get cleared up here first. I propose that we standardize the format that every hamlet in the CD should have. I think the first sentence should be a standard format of either= option 1-"Loudonville is a hamlet in the town of Colonie, Albany County, New York" or option 2-"Loudonville is a hamlet of the town of Colonie, in Albany County, New York", or whatever something better someone comes up with, those or just two suggestions but we should decide on one and make all hamlet articles conform, right now its a mishmash with some hamlet articles not even mentioning what county or town they are in, though I've been slowly rectifying that with using either option 1 or 2 and not being standardized myself. Also a reliable reference on the definition of a hamlet should be found and used on each page, along with reliable sources for lists of hamlets that can be used on articles to prove that each article name is that of a hamlet.Camelbinky (talk) 07:45, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * One thing that really should be remembered is the place of CDPs: as CDPs can't be defined in cities or villages, all CDPs in New York are hamlets, so the many CDPs really don't need to say "hamlet" or be in the "hamlet" category. You don't need to find some random source for boundaries for CDPs, because they all have boundaries that are visible at this Census Bureau page.  As for the "standard intro" (if you'll accept the advice of a primarily geography-focused editor), the intro that would be most like the normal intro for similar communities is, I believe, something like "HAMLETNAME is a hamlet in the town of TOWNNAME in COUNTYNAME County, New York, United States".  Nyttend (talk) 13:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * As for proving that an article name is that of a hamlet: the GNIS will be sufficient. All non-CDP hamlets are marked with Class Code U6, "A populated place that is not a census designated or incorporated place having an official federally recognized name", as you can see with .  If it's a CDP, it will be marked with Class Code U5, "Populated Place that is also a census designated place with the same name", as you can see with  in Saratoga County.  Finally, if it's part of a village or city, it will be marked with Class Code U4, "Official common name for a populated location within an incorporated place", as you can see with, a part of Industry, Pennsylvania (sorry that I couldn't find a New York source).  In short: when you're going with the GNIS, you can assume that it's a hamlet unless it says otherwise.  Nyttend (talk) 14:03, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you Nyttend! I will start immediately on changing all hamlets to the opening sentence formula you laid out. I do think that if a place is both a CDP and a hamlet both should be mentioned, as in the Capital District there are CDP's that arent hamlets (Hampton Manor CDP in Rensselaer County) and the CDP boundaries tend to not include areas often considered within the hamlet of the same name or to include areas not normally considered in the hamlet and sometimes include another whole nearby hamlet (Averill Park CDP in Rensselaer County includes the hamlet of Sand Lake; Delmar CDP in Albany County includes hamlet of Elsmere). Also several hamlets have come to my attention that were CDPs in the 1990 census but for some reason werent in 2000. Other than that minor difference I think exactly what you laid forth should be official policy for hamlet articles in the Capital District.Camelbinky (talk) 19:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's like anywhere else in the country: we don't say "_____ is a census-designated place (CDP) and an unincorporated community in _____"; we just say "_____ is a a census-designated place (CDP) in _____". Yes, there are plenty of former CDPs; I don't know if the Census Bureau has a list of 1990 CDPs that weren't in 2000, but such a list would be quite useful to be usre.  Nyttend (talk) 02:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

In NY "hamlet" has a special connotation beyond just being an unincorporated community, it is a historical settlement of a special type. Technically there are no "unincorporated" places in NY since every square inch of NY is in an incorporated municipality with home rule powers (either a town or a city), with the exception of Indian Reservations but that's Federal (or you could even say foreign) jurisdiction really, I think this is mentioned in the CDP article. "Newer" developments, subdivisions, and "village centers" arent considered hamlets even though they sometimes become CDPs (Hampton Manor in town of East Greenbush, Rensselaer County), I dont know at what point it became frozen but at some point new "place names" stopped being included as "hamlets", NYSDOT puts up signs showing that you have entered a hamlet of a certain name, but does not do so for place-names not traditionally seen as hamlets, I dont know their criteria however they are pretty accurate. I see your point, but a problem can come about in writing about the hamlet of Delmar versus the CDP of Delmar (which includes the hamlet of Elsmere which I hope to get around to creating an article for). Do you have any suggestions on how to handle these CDPs that encompass a second smaller hamlet? Should the article focus on the CDP but mention that it does encompass smaller hamlet X, and other than that caveat all the demographics, boundaries, etc. focus on the CDP? I understand all CDPs by definition are unincorporated communities but in NY not all unincorporated communities are hamlets. Also if there isnt a formal list of former CDPs we can always make our own by simply comparing lists from each decade, I know that "classes" have started for training census workers who will begin canvassing soon to check for changes since the last census that way they are ready for the 2010 census, so I wonder if the census bureau has already established boundaries for the 2010 CDPs, do you know? and if so where we can find them?Camelbinky (talk) 05:17, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

New articles and pictures
This is a copy of a feature at wp:NRHP. Perhaps this could be incorporated into the front page of the wikiproject. Anyhow, I'd like to be able to announce new articles in a separate list at WikiProject Capital District/New articles, which can be watchlisted by anyone interested. doncram (talk) 17:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I believe this will make collaboration alot easier, since before if someone made a new CD related article and didnt tell anyone else it might just sit there while editors who would like to help might not know it exists or know to update articles they are working on with the correct wiki-link to the new article.Camelbinky (talk) 20:16, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey Wade, is it ok to add these tables to the project page? At least on the size of the window that I display in there seems to be room at the bottom for another box under the "templates" and to the right of "sources"Camelbinky (talk) 23:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Give me a little time and I'll incorporate it. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:04, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * There, I did some update. I went with columns because they're easier to code. The two boxes above wouldn't fit in one box on the page; it had to be 100% wide. If you don't like it, feel free to replace it. Or if you do like it, think of what to put in the third column. ~   ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 01:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * A couple possibilities to consider for the third column are- a CD-only version of DYK; a "Collaboration of the month"; a CD version of "Today's Featured Article", except obviously since we dont have many change it to "Article of the Month" and have it be any FA or GA article covering the CD (we have enough for now that I believe by the time each has had its turn we'll have more, I hope!). Those are just some suggestions I've come up. I kinda like the DYK idea the most.Camelbinky (talk) 00:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the idea to use it to mention DYKs. Or, how about any article award/honor:  DYK's, GA's, FA's, FL's.  Just show in parentheses which award it is.  If Camelbinky gets a DYK for Template talk:Did you know that can be one of the first to go in there.  (That DYK nom needs tending to respond to DYK reviewers, and the article needs work, by the way.) doncram (talk) 03:33, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems that the DYK nom was eventually accepted, with no questions or requirements. It is in the DYK queue now at Template:Did you know/Queue, in the 2nd set, and if i understand correctly it will be on the main page in the 2nd 8 hour day from now....doncram (talk) 06:11, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't like how it turned out. See what you can do. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 11:26, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I like doncram's idea to use to mention any award/honors for CD articles. I'm not technical enough on this type of stuff to know how to put in.Camelbinky (talk) 20:23, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope I did an ok job at adding this to the project page!Camelbinky (talk) 22:26, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

admin help needed
Since I heard mention there are lots of administrators involved in this wikiproject :), i wonder if someone can help out with a couple new problem articles: Creighton Manning Engineering and Luther Forest Technology Campus. See Talk:Luther Forest Technology Campus.  I already posted a mild note at User talk:Bosox4duke.  Perhaps these should be deleted, by AfD or otherwise. doncram (talk) 00:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Oooooooooo burned. Thanks for all your recent help, Doncram - seriously. ~   ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 00:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * PS I think CME can stay. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 04:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I think given time the Luther Forest campus will be notable, if what the local pols are saying is true "its next Erie Canal it will transform the Capital District!", how many times have we heard that? For now maybe deletion would be best, we can always make the article in the future when AMD has finished building their Fab 2x plant or whatever its called and the thousands of jobs promised have materialized.Camelbinky (talk) 06:15, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Image requests
See here, which will be the permanent location for image requests. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 07:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Murphy wins and will now be representing more than half the CD in Congress!
Dont forget to update any relevant articles! In the Capital District the 20th Congr. Dist. covers all of Warren, Washington, Columbia, and Greene counties, along with Saratoga County (except for Waterford) and most of Rensselaer County (except for the extreme western sections such as Troy, North Greenbush, city of Rensselaer).Camelbinky (talk) 05:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been trying to keep three articles up to date: Scott Murphy (politician), Jim Tedisco, and New York's 20th congressional district special election, 2009. ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 05:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I've started looking at municipalities within the 20th district to see which mention the congressional representation, so far other editors have beat be to the change on those that already mentioned congressional repres., though I havent added the info to those articles that didnt mention Gillibrand. A weird little twist is that I grew up in the CD and am out in Columbia, Missouri getting my master's in Poli Sci, whereas Murphy grew up here in Columbia and is now in the CD doing what I've always wanted to do with my life! I know it says "citation needed" on the Murphy article for him going to Hickman High, and I cant verify that since that city has two high schools, but he is from Columbia, I can get a citation from a local newspaper out here, or if someone has more time than me the Columbia Tribune or the Columbia Missourian probably have archives online just like the TU does.
 * I've also added a congressional and state representation section to the CD article, though it might be lacking a couple names in the state representation lists, as I have not found a map of the assembly or state senate districts so I'm basically going on what other wikipedia articles say a legislator's district covers, and some dont say anything about it! Right now all I can think of that the article lacks info-wise is Education and something to replace the list of "Special attractions", maybe a recreation section and a culture section would cover most of the things on the list. I know I have to back and add citations, and it needs some copy-editting. I would like lots of suggestions for improvement, info that needs to go in, things that need to be cleared up, citations that are more important than others to get soon.Camelbinky (talk) 11:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

New awards box on project page
I added a new box (still needs work) at the bottom of the right column for listing any article promotions to GA, A, FA/FL, DYK, Featured Picture, or Valued Picture. I added Rapp Road Community Historic District for its DYK, if anyone knows of any other recent awards or promotions please add. Also in the future we may consider contacting the local tv stations and newspapers whenever a Capital District article makes a DYK, maybe the smaller more local newspapers might put a blurb in about it.Camelbinky (talk) 18:07, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find that getting more DYK awards is not very hard, so would become non-newsworthy after being covered once or twice, but I also think it's not a bad idea to try giving out a press release on behalf of the still-new wikiproject (or just an individual report coming from yourself) about cumulative developments, including mention of any recent DYKs or other awards.  The awards box will provide a source for them to refer to, also.  I have never heard of press contacts being done by any other wikiproject, but certainly there is local newspaper interest in wikipedia developments, such as to cover local wikipedians.  I recall seeing a note at Daniel Case's Talk page from a newspaper reporter seeking an interview.  I don't know whether he responded and/or there was any newspaper coverage in the end or not.  Daniel, if you're watching here, could you update as to what happened then?
 * Also, about DYK developments, what next? Good candidates are articles which are not yet started, for which a picture is available, and for which one or more good sources of information will be available (such as the NRHP documents available for any the NRHP ones).  If we do another NRHP one i will email the NRHP document to Camelbinky, now that I have his email address, so that we both have the same information at hand (and send to anyone else who wants it too).  How about New York State Department of Education Building, for which a pic is available in List of RHPs in Albany? doncram (talk) 19:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that the NYS Dept. of Ed. Bldg be next. (To save time from now on I'll just type- Ed building). I dont know how accurate this tidbit is, but I think it may be true- the Ed building has the tallest and longest row of load bearing columns on any building in the United States. IF that is true that might be the genesis of any DYK statements. I have found citation for it being the longest "collonade in America" though that kinda is generic and vague.Camelbinky (talk) 20:32, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a neat angle for a DYK phrase. If it's such a long colonnade, a pic that captures the length of it would be helpful.  To keep the DYK 5 day time pressure off, let's try developing the article in a sandbox, at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Capital District/sandbox New York State Department of Education Building and then move it to New York State Department of Education Building when we are ready.  I'll start it with a little now.


 * About the new articles / new awards type boxes on the project page, can they be done in boxes that scroll, showing just a certain amount of the list of new articles. So the list of new articles can grow indefinitely, and not require paring down to only recent ones.  That's how the example at wp:NRHP's page works, which i was trying to copy.  It just seems unnecessary for there to be housekeeping to remove others' postings, and there's no cost for the use of space in an infinitely long list. doncram (talk) 08:18, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I didnt know that the scrolling idea was possible, that's beyond anything I know about. I'm getting ready to go to bed right now, so in about 5 or 6 hours I'll be up and will look at the sandbox article. That was a great idea. Well, naptime. See you in the afternoon!Camelbinky (talk) 11:08, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I was able to add the scrolling feature to the page with the "new articles", but somehow it messed up the main wikiproject page, and therefore I had to undo it. Will continue to work on it. If anyone has any ideas or tips I'd appreciate it.Camelbinky (talk) 03:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind, fixed it! Hope it looks okie dokie. We can now let more articles and photos pile up now that it scrolls, though I think maybe a three month or 30 article/photo limit sounds good? Any thoughts? I'll leave up the headings that they are for March/April until someone else comes up with a better idea of a cutoff point for taking off old ones, because at some point an article/photo is no longer "new" but I think the old 15 limit was a bit low now that we have scrolling.Camelbinky (talk) 03:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, i like what you and Wadester did to fix up the two boxes so they scroll and are colored too. I like the way the tulips and other pic show.  About the old ones, I don't see any need to remove them ever, because they will have scrolled out of main view, and they will be labelled correctly as having been new in the month they were entered.  It then grows as a complete record of wikilinked articles/photos created by the WikiProject.... doncram (talk) 04:05, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point; I agree. Just always remember to add to the top. :-) ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 04:21, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Split Scope of Warren County down to Queensbury and south proposal
Being a long time visitor of Warren County, I have this need to believe that the Capital District isn't really all of Warren County. I have a feeling we need to split the scope down the center here. Queensbury and Glens Falls area, yes. Lake George, Lake Luzerne, Warrensburg, Stony Creek, Hague, no. I really think we need to look into this a little better.3 1/2 years of Mitch32 21:30, 2 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Warren County is integral to some of the basic things that makes a Capital District resident from one part have something in common with a resident of another part- ie: going to Lake George in the summer at least once (Memorial Day weekend specifically for many of us), going to Great Escape during the summer, I know when I was in school they even brought us there on a field trip at least twice that I can recall. Ticonderoga is integral to everyone's knowledge of Capital District history, when I was training to be the manager of a Subway in Guilderland, Albany County I had to drive to Warrensburg to train at a Subway up there, it didnt seem that far from my apartment in Sycaway, Rensselaer County. So every day I went through four counties. Those places you mentioned still get the same tv stations that the rest of us do, they still have the same "culture" as the rest. And it just is easier to go by full counties. Other regional articles and wikiprojects do. For instance regional articles on regions in California, regions in New York such as Southern Tier and North Country, New York, there was a recent issue/question posed to the wikiproject Hudson Valley recently that involved whether or not a place in Westchester County was part of the project's scope even though it was in that part of the county near the LI Sound and not the Hudson Valley itself. I was not involved in the discussion but at least one person (and maybe it was only one person who responded at all) said yes it is (or should) be covered in the project. The CD article and the project itself are both clear it is an inexact and unidentified boundary, and generally counties just (to me at least) seem the best way to arbitrarily draw the boundary, that way we arent always having this discussion "is this place really in the CD", "well I think it is", "well, I'm not sure", "well, I say no". If it is in the 11 counties, its in the article and the project is my belief just to make things simply and draw an arbitary boundary, instead of breaking it down to individual towns, which may then leave out Six Flags, Ticonderoga, and Lake George, three very important places. The most important point is that they still get CD television stations, they are in the same media market based on arbitron and any other organizations that decide media markets. All of Warren County is in the Glens Falls MSA and the GF MSA is in the Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam CSA (which with the addition of Greene County) should be the deciding point on what is the CD, if its in the ASA CSA then its in the CD, since the ASA CSA redirects to the Capital District page. If it matters that much, then the wikiproject can if enough people want take out northern Warren County from its "mission" but the article itself should continue to cover it or I can just take all the info in it (first removing anything on Greene County) and move it to the Albany-Schenectady-Amsterdam Consolidated Statistical Area changing it from being a redirect to the CD article, then the CD article can be changed by whoever to cover only what they want the CD to cover because the ASA CSA is exactly identified as covering all of the 10 counties it covers and therefore no one can complain.Camelbinky (talk) 21:54, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I would also like to mention that if a change like this is instituted that would make it much harder on the CD article for things like population and area as I (or someone else, but I seem to be the main contributor) would have to get consensus for editors for each town on whether or not its in the CD and then add the population up and geographic area for each town to get even just a rough estimate for the CD, and that could be OR whereas right now its just the pop and area of the ASA MSA plus Greene County, which borders on being OR but I believe 1+1=2 is not OR though some disagree as long as its shown that it is how the number was reached and the two numbers added are cited. Basically I'm against any redefinition because I'm lazy and dont want more work, I've worked hard on Capital District and am almost done with it too.Camelbinky (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

For the most part, I agree with Mitch. But this is why the map labels so many of those counties pink. They are grey areas in the CD. I believe if there is a future Adirondacks WP, we will end up having to share the county, just as we currently share Columbia and Greene counties with WPHV. We can't just draw a line across the county because no NY regions are defined that definitely (especially when getting down to the town level). I would say leave it be and just tag things CD in Warren County that our gut tells us should be (i.e. Great Escape). ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 20:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * To clarify my stance I wasnt saying we shouldnt share with a "North Country" or "Adirondacks" WP though I dont believe either will ever be made just based on my belief there would never be enough editors involved, and its not just Warren County we'd be sharing if that happens, we'd be sharing parts of Saratoga, Washington, and Fulton counties as many places in those counties consider themselves part of the North Country, half of Fulton County is within the Blue Line of the Adirondacks as is the entire village of Corinth in Saratoga County, and I dont think anyone is saying Corinth is not in the CD. I was simply saying that to limit the scope of the article or this project by sub-county boundaries would be wrong and something I oppose especially for the article as the ASA CSA actually IS perfectly defined by county borders and it redirects to the Capital District page, to have an article title redirect to an article that doesnt cover it seems stupid, so if people want to complain that the article covers TOO much, then it really will just get moved to the ASA CSA page where the complaint wont be valid. The Capital District Community Loan Fund, Inc. by the way actually does define the Capital District as the full 11 county area that we put as red and pink on the map, so its not like there arent any other groups claiming the CD extends the full area for convenience of defining an area to work with/in, and thats just one group I happened across because there was a newspaper article about the group a couple days ago and when it said it covered 11 counties I immediately went to their website. http://www.cdclf.org/index.htm
 * So in summary- I'm all for sharing and working together with another Wikiproject or group working on the North Country, New York article to expand it to include Fulton, Saratoga, Warren, and Washington counties or an Adirondack article or future wikiproject (though that's a geographic landform and not really a demographic region like the North Country so dont see any conflict). BUT am completely 100% against limiting the scope of Capital District geographically by redefining it by sub-county levels.Camelbinky (talk) 21:15, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Request for an image! but the building no longer exists...and I dont know the name of the building...
GE recently (oh, within the last 5 years probably) tore down a building near the entrance to the plant in Schenectady. I dont know the name of the building or if it was put on the NRHP list, but I doubt it was seeing as how they tore it down, though I dont know if that wouldve stopped GE...it was on the city of Schenectady side of the plant, it was red brick I believe, very old definitely, and pretty ornate for a factory. It is important historically and for wikipedia articles because it is the building from which GE broadcasted its first TV signal. Obviously since its been torn down (curse you GE!) I cant put in a request for a photo, but I'm hoping someone will read this and say "Oh yea, I took a photo of it a couple days before it was torn down because I read about it in the newspaper and didnt want to see it go!" because I'd really like a more modern color photograph AND an older historical photo (which probably would be in black and white. Either one would do though, hopefully someone can find one of both...Camelbinky (talk) 11:47, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Me=too young to have cared to do so at the time, hehe. Sorry! ~  ωαdεstεr 16  «talkstalk» 04:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you mean one of the buildings in the first photo (from 1965 i think) in the 3rd footnote to the General Electric Research Laboratory article? That is within a PDF document at the National Park Service so browser viewing should not be a problem.  Also, the photo is available separately as a JPG.  However, i think it is not a public domain photo, it is credited to General Electric.  Also, the NRHP application document listed there might give you a street address and/or building name. doncram (talk) 05:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * P.S. Was one of the 3 buildings that are part of the National Historic Landmark torn down? That would be big news to cover in the General Electric Research Laboratory and List of NHLs in NY articles.  Link to newspaper coverage?  doncram (talk) 05:42, 7 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I do believe it may have been one of the 3 buildings, however I didnt recognize it as being in either of the two photos, though I havent been to that part of Schenectady since they tore it down, so am not completely sure which building it was. I am positive it wasnt the building with the GE logo on it though since it was visible from the part of Schenectady I have been to since then (Erie Boulevard). It was six stories tall and named Building 36 according to this article from the Times Union http://archives.timesunion.com/mweb/wmsql.wm.request?oneimage&imageid=6207733 perhaps based on title of Building 36 it can be tracked down, I'll look over the sources on that article you mentioned see if they mention building names, if you dont get to it first. The TU article also mentions 57 buildings have been demolished at the Plant since 1985 (the Plant is how people in Schenectady refer to it). You may want to make a redirect to the General Electric Research Laboratory article from more common names, like GE Power Systems Plant, General Electric Main Plant, and most common General Electric Schenectady Plant. This plant was the corporate headquarters for all of GE from birth until the mid 70s when they moved to Fairfield, CT, I can add citations for that to the article, also the birthplace of stereo FM broadcasts, first commercial television broadcast, and the invention of tungsten to be used as the filament for lightbulbs so they actually were useful long lasting things (though that last one may actually have been at nearby GE Global Research in the suburbs of Schenectady County). I can expand the article with more info.Camelbinky (talk) 21:14, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Media in Albany, New York
Currently the article Media in Albany, New York comes out and plainly states that its about not just Albany, but also the whole Capital District, plus it includes newspapers that not exactly many people in the city have access to (such as the Post-Star from Glens Falls or even the Saratogian arent sold at every gas station and newstand like the TU is). I would like to change the article title to- Media in New York's Capital District or whatever better solution people have, that way it can be put in a "main article" template at the top of any media market section in all the articles on cities/towns/villages (or even in counties) within the Capital District. Then that section in all those articles can be smaller and delve into more localized special newspapers (Pennysaver, neighborhood association newsletters, and things like that) and other media that isnt common to the whole area. No reason in every municipal article copying the same info over and over and/or other whole articles such as Media in Troy, New York or Media in Saratoga Springs, New York having the exact same info as Media in Albany, New York.Camelbinky (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and moved the article. So if anyone wants to put media sections on the other cities in the Albany media market there is now a one-stop article for most of the info they will need (newspapers, tv stations, AM and FM stations).Camelbinky (talk) 22:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposal
Here's the proposal for this WikiProject, for historical reference. ~EdGl  &#9733;  03:10, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Municipality list done
List of incorporated places in New York's Capital District now has every single city, town, and village in all 11 counties within the Capital District, along with an estimation of their 2000 census population. I have put on the page the start of a table to organize all the lists, so they can be sorted at the click of a button based on name alphabetized, population, and area, date of incorporation, and type of municipality, along with having a slot for photo. So far all I've put in the table is Albany, will get to the rest soon enough, would love help if people want to help! The table is based on the Featured List List of cities and towns in Tennessee but with a photo slot added and instead of county seats being noted I changed to central city of a metro/micro statistical area to be colored (Albany, Schenectady, Troy, Glens Falls, Amsterdam, Gloversville, and Hudson), though would understand if others would rather have the 11 county seats stand out instead.Camelbinky (talk) 01:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The article now has all entries put into table form with their city/town/village name, county, population, area (sq mi & km²), metro area, and incorporation date. Some have an image as well. If there are more images out there feel free to add. I hope to put it up for FL nomination soon, just want to double check any spelling errors, etc.Camelbinky (talk) 00:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 05:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Some good references
I've noticed some towns and villages dont have the date of their incorporation anywhere in their articles. Here are two good references for getting that info that I've used for the List of incorp. places in NY's CD= for villages incorp before 1897 Bender's Village Laws of the State of New York page 225 there's also a list for ones incorp between 1897 and 1907 further into the book; and for towns incorp before 1860: Gazetteer of the State of New York Remember there is a difference between being granted a "patent" which is a land-grant allowing you to sell and settle "uninhabited land" or purchase it from the natives and set up a settlement, establishing a "district" which were local governments that predate towns, and actually being incorporated as a town.Camelbinky (talk) 21:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Since all the current towns in Rensselaer and Albany counties (plus the town of Niskayuna in Schenectady County) can be traced back to the division of the Manor (Patroonship) of Rensselaerwyck by the state of NY into two districts in 1779, I've gone ahead and constructed a rudimentary "family tree" at WikiProject Capital District/Sandbox‎ showing all from what district/town each town came from and when it was created and for those no longer around when dissolved. Dont know what article could be constructed from it, but maybe it might be of use to someone, at the very least I think it is interesting.Camelbinky (talk) 00:27, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I picked up some good books recently that I recomend- The Hudson Valley: A Cultural Guide published by the Alliance for the Arts I give 5 stars and think it is the best I have read in a long time. Albany Revisited, part of the Images of America series, and is by Don Rittner, I give 3 stars, I never have been impressed by Don Rittner and his lack of accurate knowledge and his condescending attitude towards progress in Albany, but still great photos of buildings long gone of sections of Albany that he failed to mention in his first book (and that can already be found for free at the AIHA, the Albany Library, and other free places where the photos actually reside so if you like libraries and museums save the 20 dollars and go see the originals for free). Industrial Archeology in Troy, Waterford, Cohoes, Green Island, and Watervliet by the Hudson-Mohawk Industrial Gateway, 4 stars I give!, even the "newest" edition is over 25 years old so is very outdated on whether the buildings still are standing (many are not) and what is currently housed in them, but a great reference nonetheless especially on NRHP sites and the history of industrialization in the Mohawk-Hudson confluence area. I picked these up at Market Block Books in Troy but that store is owned by the same people who own the Book House in Stuyvesant Plaza so I am sure the books can be found there too (though I encourage everyone to buy from the one in Troy as I support urban stores over suburban whenever possible).Camelbinky (talk) 22:30, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is the Albany County page of the Historical Marker Database. All the historical markers can be found, could be interesting and of use when doing new articles on cities, historic streets, districts, etc on where exactly something happended or what might be important. I found many I never knew about and I've walked all over Albany specifically looking for those signs when I was younger.Camelbinky (talk) 21:27, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Image Compilation: Image suggestions
It was earlier suggested by Camelbinky that Capital District should have a compilation image to represent the area similar to this or this. I would like to do that for Capital District and Albany, New York. Please feel free to add images that you think should be included. Will probably do my best to include 6-9 or so images. Just because an image is added to this version doesn't mean it will exist in a later version. But I plan on being picky and choosing only the best to represent the area (good composition, colors, preferably a blue sky, etc). Have fun picking! Here's the list:

Capital District compilation
Relevant categories: New York Capital District. Possible candidates:

Albany compilation
Relevant categories: Albany, New York. Possible candidates:

Comments

 * I think this sounds like an excellent idea. The images suggested seem suitable, and I'll keep my eye out for any others. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 04:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the photos in the first compilation. Wish there was a good photo of downtown Saratoga Springs or of the track though. On a technical note about the File:AlbanyNewYork.jpg photo it has the caption "Albany Brownstones with ESP in background"- none of the buildings in the photo are brownstones, brownstone actually refers to the sandstone material for the outside of the building (usually mined in New Jersey or Connecticut) all those buildings on Hamilton Street are brick. Good representations of brownstones (in good shape) in Albany can be found on Willet Street and on State Street around Washington Park and east to the Al Smith Building, or in Troy around Washington Park (the privately owned park south of downtown).Camelbinky (talk) 04:22, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. I meant in colloquial way of "old, urban, terraced houses butted up against each other." But you get the picture. That photo wasn't taken to represent the houses per se, more to show the noticeable juxtaposition between the old-world charm of those buildings literally across the street from the plaza.
 * A good image of Saratoga would be excellent. I don't go up there much, and I haven't been to the track since I was 10. Maybe if you're around up there you'd be interested? A nice lake scene surrounded by evergreens would be nice too. Although I might have one of those... let me check.  wadester 16  04:29, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Townhouse or rowhouse would be a more accurate term I believe, in fact the sentence you have in quotes is almost identical to the definition on the rowhouse page. In two weeks I'll be able to try my best to take a photo in Saratoga, though if anyone plans on being there during August that would be the best time for a photo of the track.Camelbinky (talk) 04:40, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Note to self: take photo of twin bridges...  wadester 16  04:42, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I do have some photos of downtown Saratoga Springs I could fast-track into uploading. As well as some photos of Clinton Avenue in Albany that could balance that out. Daniel Case (talk) 06:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Very much needed. Though you can take your time. I'm not gonna do this today. :-)  wadester 16  06:09, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

across the bottom-
 * Remember that this montage should reflect what is most notable/recognizable and representative of the Capital District as a whole. Some things might make a pretty picture and be notable on a very local basis but not recognizable or notable across the CapDis. A good example is from the bottom of this webpage: http://www.cdrpc.org/ where a good cross-section of the CapDis is represented and two photos are recognizable as being from Schenectady, two from Saratoga Springs, and two from Albany, and two seem generic (at least I cant recognize where they are).Camelbinky (talk) 00:56, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I think this is a good idea. But I agree very much with Camelblinky's comments on June 4th. It should consist of things most clearly recognizable for the Capital District. Yx7791 (talk) 02:08, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I forgot to add my selections. I think the Capitol Building, plus the Empire State Plaza Skyline would be good. The Brunswick photo, while not necessarily recognizable like the aforementioned photos, would be a good addition to include a rural photo. Lake George might also be good even though the photo is not instantly recognizable. But, we do have a number of lakes in the surrounding area. Yx7791 (talk) 05:11, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yea, I totally forgot about the Capitol Building! I think that is definitely one of THE MOST important things to include, seeing as how if it wasnt for the capitOl building, Albany wouldnt be the capitAl and therefore the area wouldnt be the CAPITAL District.Camelbinky (talk) 05:55, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

To the right is the first version I made, which I'll add to the article. Please feel free to make comments; I think it's pretty fair though. As I get better with photoshop, I will update with a much larger and better file. This was made in Powerpoint so it's small, and a png b/c that's what Macs make when doing a screenshot. So consider this the dress rehearsal.  wadester 16  04:28, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the montage. Not all the photos are my "style" but I think it came VERY close to what I had imagined when first proposing it and Wadester did an EXCELLENT AND SUPERB job juggling alot of different opinions and comments and putting together a great montage. Is there anything in the Wikipedia guidelines that preclude us from changing it, say like every season? We could have a summer montage, a fall montage, a winter montage, and a spring montage. That way we could have photos of our ski resorts and parks blanketed in snow, but only during the time of the year it really matters. Another suggestion is perhaps a caption could be added something along the lines of- Across top: Rensselaer County countryside; Middle (clockwise from top right): Washington Park, Nott Memorial, Lake George, Twin Bridges, farm in Brunswick, State Capitol, River Street in Troy, SPAC; Bottom: Skyline of Albany.Camelbinky (talk) 12:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think for use in the article, we should leave it captionless. I included a gallery on the image page so anybody can grab the full-size of any image they want. I like the seasoned idea. Nothing stopping that from happening save for lack of photos, but I'll do my best to take photos during fall, winter, and spring (I didn't do much spring only because it's an odd time to photograph - everything's almost open and alive, but not quite, know what I mean?) I like the idea b/c right now the montage lacks snow, which is a prominent part of being an upstate New Yorker!  wadester 16  14:35, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we dont need a spring montage then...we could have a combined spring/summer montage (probably the current version or a future variation of it) since the Moses Statue with tulips is a spring image and not a summer one. Not every photo in the montage would have to be changed out, the Albany skyline photo at the bottom could probably stay year round, same the Troy photo, the State Capital, maybe even the Nott. Could have a fall montage of several fall foliage photos, along with maybe an Oktoberfest photo from Great Escape, and some other seasonal-type photos. A winter one of the Lights in the Park in Albany, a ski resort, ice skating at the ESP or at Schenectady's Central Park (which might be a good idea for a photo anyways since the ice skating scene in the movie The Time Machine took place there and would be good addition for a section in Sch. or CD article on movies filmed in the area), there's plenty of time to come up with option/ideas and 365 more days to decide and shoot photos, though as I've added to the climate section, Albany only gets on average less than 70 sunny days a year, and that probably really cuts into Wade's chances of a clear sky and good conditions, especially in the fall and winter, I myself am often amazed that he gets so many good shots already.Camelbinky (talk) 00:24, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

To those who love photos this might be interesting:
If anyone wants to get involved in another addictive and time consuming hobby: check out this blog (the second posting) about how Albany is portrayed on Google Earth and the need for more people to work on getting Albany (and the surrounding areas I assume) represented. I've never bothered to check out Albany on Google Earth except for Delaware Ave where I once lived during college, that part seemed ok, but according to the photo shown with the blog it looks like Albany just isnt shown very well, but apparently workgroups can be formed (similar to wikipedia's wikiprojects) to "build" models of buildings in the city.Camelbinky (talk) 02:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Discussion at village pump:
this discussion at the Village pump might be of interest to the many members of our wikiproject that work on hamlets and settlements. It is a proposal, quite serious and gaining traction, to no longer continue the unofficial excemption given to settlements on the question of notability. Previously all settlements by default were considered notable and could have an article as long as you had sources for some information, this might not be the case anymore and articles might actually get AfD for non-notability. Such CD articles as Crescent Station, New York and Alcove, New York might be lost. I would assume this notability requirement would extend to CDP's as well, as being a CDP is not notable in itself, though that is one question I will be raising at the Pump.Camelbinky (talk) 21:49, 13 June 2009 (UTC)


 * A CDP is notable inherently since the Census bureau has created it. Daniel Case (talk) 07:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thats what the discussion is about, the supporters of making places accountable to the notability requirement do not see it that way of CDP's being notable just because they exist.Camelbinky (talk) 15:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Round Lake Bypass
Since the road has just opened and as far as I can find it does not have an article yet, I am creating it at User:Camelbinky/sandbox. I hope others who have more knowledge and experience in traffic engineering, urban planning, etc or just find roads interesting will come soon and help out. Modern roads are not my specialty and my work will probably be very preliminary for awhile since I have to pretty much do a crashcourse quick study on those those topics as I'm writing. If others have already started the article somewhere let me know so I can cancel mine!Camelbinky (talk) 23:09, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * See WT:NYSR archives - as it falls under our jurisdiction, we oppose the creation of the article for notability issues.Mitch/HC32 23:15, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Excuse me? Notability issues? "Jurisdiction"? It is being built by the state and I would assume owned and maintained as well, as I am not currently in the area I would hope someone can simply drive on it and check the little square green signs to see its ref number, it would I assume have a state designation (3 digits and a letter right for non-touring refs right?). That would make it just as "notable" as the South Mall Arterial which has its own article. This is also the "driveway" to the Luther Forest Technology Campus, so just as you can claim the South Mall Arterial is notable for the thousands of state workers who use it, so too will the bypass be used by the 1,000+ people building and then working at the GlobalFoundries chip plant in Malta which has gotten WORLD-WIDE news coverage from here to Austin to the Semicon West convention in California to Germany to Singapore. Why do you think this is a non-notable highway?Camelbinky (talk) 23:29, 22 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Read WP:USRD/N and the archives. I would support it, but 915J (RL Bypass) is deemed unnotable, and it really serves only as a traffic easing connector from NY 67 to Curry Road.Mitch/HC32 23:34, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I dont recognize (and alot are with me on this) that any wikiproject OWNS the rights to the creation of any article. I'll work on this article in my sandbox, if others want to help they are welcomed, when it is done, I'll move it to an article, if it goes up for AfD so be it, I'll take my chances. I checked the archives at the NYSR talk page and saw one person tell you that it shouldnt be made, that editor said it needed a good backstory. I believe that editor did not know about the GlobalFoundries connection. Which is why this is not a "traffic easing connector", at least not for current traffic. The Times Union has even stated that the Round Lake Bypass was one of the preconditions for the fab to be built, if it wasnt built they wouldnt have come here. Does not being the engine for a 1,000+ job creator merit being notable? How about helping me get the article up to standards in a sandbox and see how far we get? If we hit a snag and cant get it to a good enough status we can scrap it. Are you, is anyone, with me? Why not "shoot for the moon" and try, if we fail, if it goes to article-space and gets deleted, so what? I know there are definitely better things we can all spend our time on, but I'm sure anyone interested in trying to work on this can spare some time and not be disappointed that the time was wasted if it does get deleted.Camelbinky (talk) 23:42, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

And for the record it connects Interstate 87 with US Route 9, it is not just about connecting NY 67 to Curry Road, the person who opposed in the archives stated it was less than a mile long, it is actually a mile and a half long, and therefore probably longer than the South Mall Arterial.Camelbinky (talk) 23:45, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * For the record, that's why we've ignored SM Arterial. I have the 37 page document of every sign planted on that road, so I know everything about it. I know its designation, i have followed it since Day 1, but even if I don't be the one who AFDs it, someone else will.Mitch/HC32 00:05, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Who has ignored the SM arterial?! It has, as I put the link to it earlier, its own article! But, I'm sure someone may now decide to AfD it, good luck trying! It is nice that you know where every sign planted on "that road", which I dont know if you are talking about the SM arterial or the RL Bypass, is this a pissing contest about who knows what in this area then you better be William Kennedy or Jack McEneny if you really think you know more than me overall (and boy do I wish they would edit the articles here! I would "retire" and let them write whatever they wanted!). If someone wants to go and AfD South Mall Arterial let them, I dont think it will succeed, but it may just motivate me to go to all these road articles that go through the CD and start fixing EVERYTHING that is wrong with them and start knocking some of them that got to GA and FA status way too quickly back down until they get fixed because many of them are simply WRONG in their route description or have blatantly false info.Camelbinky (talk) 02:47, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Calm down. I am talking about my project. I have a 37 page document detailing all the signage, highway alignment and certain blueprinted details of the RL Bypass. Calm down, man.Mitch/HC32 02:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I apologize for getting a little hot under the collar. I do believe that you actually do want to write this article, I encourage you to help and use the information you have. If it exists only as a sandbox forever, then at least the information exists. My problem with some of these road articles out there is that, unfortunately, especially around here, they are so old important information has been lost over the years (and in many cases centuries) or has never been put on the internet. We have the chance, from day one practically, to put down for posterity the information we have today on this road. The following articles would probably end up linking to it- Round Lake, Malta, Luther Forest Technology Campus, Interstate 87, NY 67, US 9, and Saratoga County. In a Google Search (which Google will actually finish Round Lake Bypass for you, so obviously it is notable enough for Google to do that) comes up with a large number of very relevant hits. The local newspapers have covered it extensively. I successfully defended (with Wadester's help) the AfD of Latham Circle when I first created it, and if I do say so myself its not that bad for a short article, I have no doubt that, with your help Mitch, we can defend RL Bypass if you are willing to give it a try and work on it with me. At the very least it can exist as a sandbox off my user page and be a reference to future Wikipedians and the information we collect will not be lost. Willing to give it a try?Camelbinky (talk) 03:31, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Comparing the Round Lake Bypass to the South Mall Arterial is an apples-to-oranges comparison. If you're familiar with its history, the arterial was intended to be much longer than one mile. That's why it exists (and for that matter why Interstate 78 in New York exists as well). I really don't see the Round Lake Bypass as anything more than a simple connector between I-87 and US 9. Whether it's a mile or a mile and a half long is a moot point. Now, if it can be demonstrated that it is indeed notable through an impressive history (which is basically what I said here), then perhaps an article for it could exist. But on the surface, the road itself isn't impressive at all. –  T M F 21:30, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Sigh. Mitch, you and your project don't get veto power over anything. Camel, did you consider adding the information to the NY 67 article? --NE2 22:28, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I may very well add the info to the NY 67 article, and obviously the US 9 article (or is there a US 9 in New York article? I think there is...) could have a mention on how the new road connects up to them. However, without Mitch's support there is no reason to continue with trying to get this to an article. I agree with NE2 that a wikiproject can not veto the creation of an article, it can very well ask that the Wikiproject banner not be used on the article, and it can be a forum for organizing support at an AfD. I love a good drama filled fight, but no use if Mitch who is probably the most active Capital District road article creator/contributor isnt on my side. The sandbox exists if anyone wants to add information to it, and maybe someday I'll feel up to adding more to it as well, right now I'm just a bit disallusioned and going to find some other article to work on.
 * As for TwinsMetsFan- perhaps you may want to read my posts above on the backstory of the article. Is the fact that the road was a prerequisite for landing a chip fab plant (the only one currently in construction in the entire United States btw) make it notable enough for you? I knew all about why the SM Arterial existed and the various other highways in the Albany area that werent created (I was actually hoping the people reading my post WOULDNT know), were YOU aware that the original plans for I-787 was for it to be on the Rensselaer side along the Hudson River?Camelbinky (talk) 00:05, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems like it would fit better with NY 67 than US 9, since it was built, as far as I can tell, primarily as a link between I-87 and NY 67.
 * By the way, when was I-787 (or more properly, what became I-787) supposed to go through Rensselaer? By 1955 it was planned as it is now. --NE2 00:39, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * "Is the fact that the road was a prerequisite for landing a chip fab plant (the only one currently in construction in the entire United States btw) make it notable enough for you?" - To me it doesn't. –  T M F 02:06, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * NE2, I'm not sure of when, but I first saw the, well for lack of a better term in my vocabulary, artistic or architectural drawing?- at an exhibit at the Albany Institute of History and Art (may still be there or in storage if someone wants to stop there and ask about any info & drawings they may have) and it had been printed in the Times Union maybe 6-10 years ago and I can try to go through the online archives looking for it, but the TU is spotty on putting those things along with its online articles. It was a color drawing of what Rensselaer would look like after the highway was built (I dont believe the I-787 designation had been made yet though, remember that from Madison Ave to the Thruway existed the Southside Arterial, limited-access highway, long before becoming an interstate number). Best bet is if you or someone else is really interested and has time, to go through a library's microf. (do they still use those old things?!) copies of the print editions starting around 10 years ago and just keeping going until you find it! Meanwhile I do my best to find it if it exists online (I'm not actually in the Albany area otherwise I'd do the legwork myself). Another little known fact about highways in this area, but one which I do have a source handy is- the Taconic Parkway was originally envisioned by FDR (one of the biggest supporters and this was before he was governor of NY) to be built and cross the Hudson "near Troy" and continue to Canada connecting NYC to Montreal LONG before the Northway and a decade or two before the Thruway, but because Robert Moses HATED FDR he continually got in the way of the Taconic recieving any money or being built and why today it is a useless highway from nowhere to nowhere. This according to Robert Caro's Power Broker about Robert Moses's life and work, I have the book at home somewhere, I can have the page number for you tomorrow.Camelbinky (talk) 22:03, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Albany County municipality maps
The new Albany County maps of municipalities being put into town articles are incorrect as they have the land of the cities of Watervliet and Cohoes included in the town of Colonie and they do not show the town/village of Green Island as part of Albany County at all. Plus, while I do not agree with the old maps showing the boundaries of CDP's, as these can disappear and get rearranged at will by the census bureau each decade, I do believe that the boundaries of the villages within towns should have remained to show that villages are an integral part of a town, while making it easier for the mapmakers to shade the villages for the village articles since the outline would be already available. I've started replacing the maps with the old ones until something is resolved. I'd rather not have incorrect maps out there showing that Cohoes, Watrvlt, and GI do not exist, I can understand why the were replaced in the first place, but they are better than nothing and better than incorrect maps. When the problem of C., GI, and W. are fixed feel free to replace them again with your new maps.Camelbinky (talk) 03:22, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm currently in the process of working with a master SVG-maker in fixing them; he also worked on the great maps of Rensselaer County. The discussion is taking place on my talk page at Commons. In fact there was a question about Ravena that you may be able to answer; I wasn't really able to. He does this out of the kindness of his heart, so I don't want to have to send him back to the drawing board over and over for one county. They shouldn't be incorrect for very long.  wadester 16  06:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I didnt know anyone was working on it, I dont pay attention to the Commons, my bad. Take your time, I'll leave the old maps alone. As for Ravena it is landlocked and looks like a teardrop sorta. The area to the right, along the river is the CDP of Coeymans.Camelbinky (talk) 02:04, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Capital District articles proposed for deletion
I wanted to make sure everyone is aware that Albany, NY's Tulip Festival and Tulip Queen have been proposed for deletion and may be deleted as soon as August 4. --Albany NY (talk) 01:58, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, the person who put the deletion template on the Alb. NY'S Tulipfest page said it can be removed if you give reason on the edit summary, so I removed it and will work on the article when I have time, that takes care of that one for now hopefully. As for Tulip Queen, I cant say I care if it's deleted as it probably can be covered just fine in the Tulipfest article and it probably isnt needed. Why do people want to delete articles that have barely existed?Camelbinky (talk) 03:27, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The amount of time an article has existed is usually irrelevant to its suitability for inclusion. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 03:35, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What I am, well I guess disgusted with are editors; like the one that put the tulipfest article up for deletion; who decide notability based only on what is listed in the article itself at that moment and does not take time to search for notability or improve the article themselves. If an article was recently created the editor who created it (who may, like in this case be relatively new) may not have had time to establish notability for those editors who arent already familar with the overall topic. Some people who AfD article's have the air of "Well, I havent heard of it personally so it must not be notable". I believe that is the case in this situation.Camelbinky (talk) 03:45, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * In fairness to said editors, articles must internally assert and establish notability. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 03:47, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I think Tulip Fest deserves to stay, but Tulip Queen does not. That said, we need to get links to Tulip Fest, because it's definitely mentioned in a number of articles here. That gives it some weight. Also, I moved the article to Tulip Festival (Albany, New York) so it sticks to the typical naming conventions. The old name is now a redirect.  wadester 16  04:59, 30 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I'll just add this under this section since it is tangently related- can someone take another look at Luther Forest Technology Campus, the editor who created it hasnt been active since the day he created it, April 7 and before that only worked on articles related to the companies involved in that construction and wasnt even active for all that long of a period, and it is a blatant copy right violation and a POV problem. The whole thing is just copy-pasted from a few sources and very promotional. We had a small discussion when it was made and not much has been done since Doncram's adding of the appropriate tags on the page and a message on the user's talk page, which I believe the user never responded to since that user has not edited since then. I think we need to decide if any of us are going to take the time to clean it up or if we should just have it speedily deleted now and remake the article at a time when someone has the leisure of working on it. I think having a copy right violation like this shouldnt be kept around any longer. Deleting it wouldnt be so bad as we can always make a new one of that heading in the future since we are all aware it needs to be made (or perhaps doesnt need to be, that's a different discussion that can take place here as well if someone has comments on it).Camelbinky (talk) 00:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

New "logo"
Just so everyone knows, I requested that an acquaintance of mine make a vector logo for our project, something that emphasizes the Plaza. This is what he came up with (also shown right), and I think it's absolutely amazing work. I replaced this (the previous logo) with the new SVG artwork. Hopefully everyone else will like it? If anyone's upset about it, we can remove it if that's the consensus. You can see the discussion that led to this image here.  wadester 16  02:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I love it and will bully anyone who tries to remove it! PS- that is exactly the skyline I was hoping we'd get for the Albany, NY article infobox. Camelbinky (talk) 02:05, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Neighborhoods in Albany
For the now-separate-from-county list-article National Register of Historic Places listings in Albany, New York, it would be nice to have the neighborhood of each place given in a sortable column. Is there an official partition of the city into neighborhoods which could be used? I see mention in Neighborhoods of Albany, New York that one neighborhood is "not recognized" by the city, suggesting there is an official list. There is no general discussion of neighborhoods partitioned by city, by police precincts, or by any other approach, as I might have expected, at the top of the neighborhoods list article. Any help adding neighborhoods to the NRHP list-article would be appreciated, anyhow. doncram (talk) 00:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I answered on the neighborhood article's talk page how the neighborhoods for that article are defined and have a link there for an official map to the neighborhood associations boundaries (though a neighborhood association may be larger or smaller than the actual neighborhood). Albany recently changed how the police have their precincts (or how now there is a lack of them) in favor of mobile response teams, that would not be practical in this case. I know many will hate me for this, but really a neighborhood is what the people of that place say it is. As for the "unofficial" neighborhood in the neighborhoods article, I know which one you are talking about, I will correct that wording since the city does have neighborhood welcome signs for that particular neighborhood, in my eyes that makes it official. It may have gotten the label "unofficial" from the fact that the name "New Albany" is a made-up name, the neighborhood association for that neighborhood took that name and then it stuck to the neighborhood instead of the other way around. Those blocks having been nameless until then, they possibly had been considered part of the West End or Pine Hills. I explain on the talk page of the article somewhat more. I can put neighborhoods on the NRHP listings, some can be backed up with the neighborhood association map or Times Union articles stating neighborhoods and the historic locations in them thereby giving citations should we need them, other locations however may not be backed up by more than "Camelbinky says so", though truthfully that would be a small amount. For now I can label just those I can back up with proof, see how many remain, research those that remain, and if there are still some that I cant back up my opinion with a source you can let me know if you want them labeled anyways or not.Camelbinky (talk) 01:11, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Streets of Albany
Alot of you have worked on NRHP sites and historical districts in Albany and I am open to any requests for any particular streets to be added to Streets of Albany, New York. Either historical or of more current importance, it doesnt matter. I havent decided whether or not to include highways, am open to any suggestions on that matter, and the matter of whether or not to include cancelled highways, such as the Mid-crosstown Arterial.Camelbinky (talk) 03:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Proofread request
I would really appreciate it if a few people would go over to wikisource:Charter of Freedoms and Exemptions and read it over so I can add it to wikisource:Category:100%, so it can be protected as a complete and finished document. Barnstars to anyone that goes and does it!  wadester 16  17:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Great source of old images from Schenectady
Here's a great source of old images (actually, most, if not all of them, are postcards). Union College was given the rights to them and nicely released them all into the public domain. Here's the link. I have a contact over at the library there and will see if he would be able to release the higher res versions of ones that users request.  wadester 16  17:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * BTW what are the copyright rules for old postcards?Camelbinky (talk) 23:57, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
 * If it's pre-1923, then you're good to go. Most of these are; some are not. But they released them all into the public domain anyway.  wadester 16  00:59, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you, I've always been a little afraid of using postcard images because I didnt know if the same 1923 rule applied to them as it does to everything else. And of course thank you for the great new source of images!Camelbinky (talk) 04:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, postcards are presumably published when offered for sale like a book or map. However, note that the pre-1923 rule does not apply to all countries; this one from France is not necessarily public domain for example. Anything post-1923 is also problematic, unless Union College actually got the rights from the photographer or postcard publisher, which would need an explicit statement of such. --NE2 05:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * All the post cards are productions of Union College itself and no matter the creation date (some of them are from the 80s), they have been released into the public domain as is specifically stated on each page of the postcards. So these, when uploaded, will use the template at Commons, with the author being Union College.  wadester  16  21:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * is almost certainly not produced by Union College. Same for, labeled "Santway Photo-Craft Company, Inc., Watertown, N. Y." You need specific evidence for each postcard that it was either (a) published in the U.S. before 1923 or (b) created by the college and released into the public domain by them. --NE2 23:08, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Time Sensitive: I've been in contact with a librarian at Schaffer Library at Union. They say they will give me a high-res copy of any postcard I'd like. Please consider skimming through the selection and pick two or three that you think would greatly benefit a few articles. I will do my best to restore it if it's in rough shape (though these all seem to be in great shape). I've already asked for about 8, so if it's an overlap, I'll let you know. Again, this is a great source; please try to take advantage of it.  wadester 16  21:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
 * So, um, what ever happened to the discussion by NE2 regarding copyright? Also- any other updates?Camelbinky (talk) 20:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Geobox2 for counties
I have begun to use the Geobox2 format for counties. I have switched over Albany County, New York and Rensselaer County to give two examples of what the format can do. It is very similar to what I originally used for the Capital District article, which if I havent already I will switch from the original Geobox format to Geobox2. Though I am using Geobox|Region all Geobox2's can use anything found in any other Geobox2. I chose region as it more appropriately fits a county rather than settlement as it comes prepopulated with sections regarding internal parts and capital, etc etc that arent found on settlement, though as stated you can add the appropriate parts to a settlement template and it will still work, but I am partial to the salmon color heading :-) I prefer geobox2 because it can easily be formated to have a hide/show button for long lists and it allows much more pertinent info to be found by a quick look by someone who doesnt want to read a full article to find what they need than the infobox US county that previously has been used in our county articles. If anyone has any info that they think should be in the box feel free to list here for all to share. I'll be adding a line for type of county govt soon (whether its a county legislature or a board of supervisor form).Camelbinky (talk) 21:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Copyedit and review request
I've just gone live with the rewrite of Kiliaen van Rensselaer (Dutch merchant). A full read through and copyedit would be greatly appreciated. I put a lot of time into this, and it incorporates a lot of primary sources. Will be going for GAN soon, I think.  upstate NYer formerly wadester16 22:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

GAN Review
Anybody up to the challenge of reviewing Kiliaen van Rensselaer (Dutch merchant) for GA? Entry can be found here: WP:GAN. Much appreciated if someone (uninvolved, of course) would consider it.  upstate NYer  04:23, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

A tip...
Just a tip on articles about people and places having to do with the towns of Glenville and Rotterdam (and the village of Scotia)- prior to the creation of the two towns they were parts of the city of Schenectady, it is anachronistic to mention the towns during times before they were created, I believe Glenville was the fourth ward and Rotterdam the third ward (or other way around). I dont know how far back the two places were first encorporated within Schenectady, but they were within the original city limits of 1798, the original town limits of 1788, and the original district limits of 1772, earlier than that I dont know if present-day Rotterdam and Glenville were part of Schenectady when it was set up as a borough and before that as a patent "with certain municipal rights". It is actually quite common in the Capital District that some of our cities were once much larger geographically than they are now. Albany once stretched for 16 miles from the Hudson River and the city of Hudson once encompassed most of the neighboring town of Greenport. Many of our articles on people and places should incorporate or at least touch quickly on what municipality these people were born in or the building was built in at the time instead of making it seem like the current place has always existed. Example- Leland Stanford, governor of California and big proponent of the trans-continental railroad, while his birthplace today is within the town of Colonie; at the time of his birth it was part of the town of Watervliet (not to be confused with the city of the same name).Camelbinky (talk) 23:04, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Tech Valley
I have finally started a sandbox for Tech Valley, here. Please feel free to add. If anyone knows where online I can read a copy of President Obama's recent speech in Troy where he mentioned Tech Valley and our achievements I would be very grateful.Camelbinky (talk) 00:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Should this even exist?
I just found this article- Shaker Road-Loudonville Fire Department. Is a fire department inherently notable like a city or town is? Seems like an article that should be deleted in my opinion. I dont want to put it up for deletion if there's anyone who thinks they could use it.Camelbinky (talk) 01:48, 27 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I dunno, i wouldn't like to delete all that new users User:Kashew and User:BFDL26 did there. It would be awfully harsh for them.  Is there any way to involve them into something else, to invite to take pics of something else in the same area, etc.  Eventually the article should be reduced, but it is not as if these editors are on a rampage cluttering up the wikipedia.  It's just one article, not in synch with the rest of wikipedia but not hurting anything either.  So let it ride.... :) doncram (talk) 02:02, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, and in keeping with wp:PRESERVE.Camelbinky (talk) 21:17, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Request for photos of area schools
UpstateNYer and I are working on a sandbox for the eventual article List of school districts in New York's Capital District, located here. I am finding that we dont have many photos of the area schools. Hopefully, we can get some more before winter makes photography difficult to be outside. And of course if you are barred from being within 100 yards of a school for legal reasons, please dont go taking photos of one! (JOKE)Camelbinky (talk) 00:38, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Even though there are such people out there. Better yet, do get that close; you'll be re-arrested, as you should.  upstate NYer  03:21, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

New importance assessment criteria at New York Wikiproject
After much discussion a consensus was reached at the Wikiproject New York and the new criteria is at WikiProject New York/Assessment; as it affects articles that are also within our wikiproject any spinoff article of Albany, New York is now ranked High (such as History of Albany, New York), all other cities and villages are high, towns, hamlets, and "National Register of Historic Places listings that don't qualify for higher importance" are mid; of course this all applies only to how they are ranked in the NY Wikiproject banner and has no bearing on the importance ranking we apply to the same articles in the Capital District banner.Camelbinky (talk) 07:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Categorization
Ive noticed alot the NYCD related categories arent upmerged very well from the various county and municipal categories and some articles are categorized to multiple related categories (example would be "history of albany" and "albany, new york" when just the first category should be on the page; and history of albany upmerged to albany, new york). The wine wikiproject I have just found out has this discussion going on as to how to categorize better. Does anyone have any ideas on how to better our categories? I've attempted here and there doing less controversial changes as I see them, but perhaps there are lots of ideas out there.Camelbinky (talk) 21:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Source for images
If you're looking for photos to fill your articles, Flickr has Capital District, Albany, Schenectady, Troy, Saratoga Springs, and Lake George groups in addition to a general Upstate NY group. While the photos may not be explicitly free use, most photographers are flattered when you ask to use them. They have to change the copyright status on the image page to either CC-BY or CC-BY-SA to be used here.  upstate NYer  21:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Just as a heads up there is some "pushback" against this from photographic forums and groups. Their main stance is that the photographer should always maintain their FULL rights and are working to educate new photographers about "getting taken advantage of". Gobae (talk) 15:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally find that a bit selfish of photographers then, as it hampers good efforts like Wikipedia. An amateur taking some photos of a particular building, community, etc and posting it on a place like Flickr should be willing to let something like Wikipedia use their images and be proud we liked their photography enough to ask to use it.Camelbinky (talk) 22:55, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Speaking of photos, i think Albany and surrounding counties have somewhat fewer-than-the-40%-average percentages of photos, relative to NRHP lists in other counties, in Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in New York. Can y'all pitch in?  Take a pic and upload it, even if there's snow in it. :) doncram (talk) 23:16, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Some weekend I'll go around Rens and Alb Counties. No guarantee on when though.  upstate NYer  03:19, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting point, but it doesn't matter. As long as the images are licensed under CC-BY or CC-BY-SA, they are free to be used without asking, as long as the photographer is credited. If they feel upset, they can remove the licensing, but if they don't, those photos are literally up for grabs.  upstate NYer  03:16, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This is true but, I think you missed some of my point. The photographic community is telling new photographers not to license under Creative Commons and always retain full rights.  So, using flattery to get them to change their license status may not work as well as it has in the past. Gobae (talk) 15:08, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I trust that people will see fit to offer their works for free; plus if anyone licenses originally under CC, and revoke that license, the image is till licensed under CC, by law. Professional photographers are a bit to snooty for my taste (for just this reason). I sell some of my photos, but still host them here. If someone is smart enough to find it here, they deserve to have the right to get prints if they want. Either way, I don't really worry about this. Plus, for this project especially, I take enough photos for 4 or 5 people and Daniel Case did an amazing trip for Wikiproject National Register of Historic Places and must have uploaded a few hundred images relevant to both the Capital District and Hudson Valley.  upstate NYer  21:48, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

New process
Hi all, I've created an A-Class review system for the Capital District project. If you have any ideas for nominations, please post them! – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 02:35, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * And does that mean these are only reviewed by project members, or are the the pages transcluded into a general A-Class page like GAN and FAC?  upstate NYer  03:18, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, they'd be transcluded on that specific project page, but theoretically anybody can review them. – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 21:52, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

FAC
Oakwood Cemetery (Troy, New York) is currently a Featured Article Candidate. Reviews would be appreciated.  upstate NYer  21:33, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:05, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Meetup in the area
There's been talk for about a year of organizing a Wikipedia meetup somewhere in the Hudson Valley/Capital District area, since the closest meetup locations—New York City and Hartford—are too far away for most of us to get to. Is there anybody who would be interested in helping to organize one in the Albany area? – Juliancolton  &#124; Talk 02:04, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. I have been to three NYC events, when I can get down there. Bearian (talk) 00:44, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Albany Records
This has been nominated for deletion. Is it notable? Should we rescue it? Discuss here or at the AfD. Bearian (talk) 00:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * See Articles for deletion/Albany Records. Bearian (talk) 00:46, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I happened to be looking through the archives at the NY Times site anyways so I did a search for "Albany Records music", I put the results at the AfD and I think the number of times its mentioned along with a good mentioning at an Arts section article that it was one of a few that have taken a commercially unviable corner of music and developed notable catalogues (notably is their word). I believe with a little more searching at the Times Union and Google more can be found. But notable I would say that one article at the NY Times is good ammunition in a fight.Camelbinky (talk) 01:08, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned article
Bridge 6, Erie Canal is an orphaned article and I'm not sure that the current title is the best one. But thought I'd bring attention to it so anyone who wants to link to it can help unorphanize it and fix it up, its currently unreferenced along with being an orphan. The name is technically accurate as it is the sixth bridge over the current Erie Canal/NYS Barge Canal (counting north on the Hudson and then west on the canal from the Troy Lock) but I would think Crescent Bridge would be the most likely looked for name (and why this bridge is probably an orphan) if someone else agrees and wants to move it.Camelbinky (talk) 02:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. You are being notified as this project's banner is on the talk page. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

completing articles for all NRHP places in cap dis
There's a steady but sure editing campaign going on, towards creating at least a stub article for every NRHP place listed in New York State. The new stubs have basic info and include some discussion of significance from the available-on-line NRHP nomination documents. I think more than half of the counties in the state have been completed, mostly by User:Pubdog working west to east. (See Talk:List of RHPs in NY for status; List of RHPs in Madison is one recently completed;  List of RHPs in Suffolk, out of order, is underway.)

About Capital District area county- and city-lists, I wonder about completing out National Register of Historic Places listings in Albany, New York first. That has 57 NRHP items, for 26 of which articles have already been started. Or would anyone prefer starting with a different county or city list-article? The others would be Schoharie, Rensselaer, Saratoga Schenectady, and the rest of Albany county lists, right?

I'll pause for any response, otherwise maybe do some editing in the Albany city list, perhaps trying to add a short description in the list-article with each new separate stub article created. It would be great if any other editors wanted to further develop the new stubs created, or to add short summary descriptions to the list-article(s). --doncram (talk) 19:11, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * As defined for use of the Capital District article and this wikiproject the counties are Albany, Schenectady, Rensselaer, Saratoga, Warren, Washington, Montgomery, Fulton, Schoharie, Greene, and Columbia. I would say start with either Albany or Rensselaer counties since those seem to get the most attention. I've been working on making articles for every hamlet in Albany County so they can get linked to NRHP articles when those are made. I know the Guilderland (hamlet), New York article could really use a link to an article about the NRHP listing Albany Glassworks Site.Camelbinky (talk) 20:23, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, that sounds like consensus for doing Albany County outside of the city of Albany first, fine by me. :) --doncram (talk) 20:52, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ghost Hunters TV show at Ticonderoga
Wednesday 3/10 at 9pm Eastern time on the Syfy channel the TV show Ghost Hunters will have an episode at Fort Ticonderoga.Camelbinky (talk) 00:15, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Eric Ely
Notable person, or one hit wonder? This article is up for deletion. Please add your opinion to the WP:AfD after reading the article. Bearian (talk) 20:40, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * While I think saving it might be worth-while there are multiple issues for clean-up, such as eight references for one sentence, and more importantly references such as to a blog and other non-RS citations that need to be removed... I have !voted keep and trust Bearian to continue to make the article better, Bearian has proven to many of us that as an editor he(?) can be trusted and deserves our support.Camelbinky (talk) 21:55, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Can someone do any fixing up and rating it? Bearian (talk) 01:49, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I assessed it; haven't read it since the AfD, but at that point, it was probably a good C. A more complete early-life section could bring it to B.  upstate NYer  02:43, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

P:NYCD DYKs
Please consider adding some of your DYKs (or new ones) as suggestions for the DYK section of Portal:Capital District. We need a bunch. Thanks!  upstate NYer  15:52, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

History Channel special
History Channel is having a special series America: The Story of Us and of course the Capital District will get mentioned many times. First episode today mentioned the State Bank of Albany and its role in financing the Erie Canal.Camelbinky (talk) 23:19, 2 May 2010 (UTC)