Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chicago/Archive 6

Possible Prod
I was tempted to prod these two articles, but await commentary from Chicagoans who may have a better understanding of the notability. I am surprised by the number of past editors at Christina Filiaggi and feel Jim Johnson (radio) is a pretty marginally notable personality.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 08:55, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not really too surprised. WLS is a very popular station - there's a whole book about it. And I'm pretty sure you could find some Robert Feder articles about the two of them in the Sun-Times database. Zagal e jo^^^ 18:50, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Request for help getting a picture
Can anyone in the Chicago area get a picture of the Burger King located at 506 South Washington Street in Naperville? I really need a commons image of this antique burger King location to use in an article. Thanks! --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 02:38, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll also list it at the Commons:Commons:Picture_requests/Requests/North_America WhisperToMe (talk) 23:32, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Chicago literature
Its not clear where you get consensus to mark an article Top Importance but because literature has been very important historically to the development of society, I think the new article Chicago literature created by another user, should be so designated. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:05, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Every so often we hold voting at CHIASSESS. I don't expect another vote until 2012 or 2013, given the current rate of page growth. N.B. one top-importance article got split into five separate ones and we try to keep the total number at .2% of the total number of articles in the project. For current listings see Category:Top-importance Chicago articles.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:57, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

US Collaboration reactivated & Portal:United States starting next
Casliber recently posted a suggestion on the talk page for WikiProject United States about getting the US Wikipedians Collaboration page going again in an effort to build up articles for GA through FA class. See U.S. Wikipedians' notice board/USCOTM. After several days of work from him the page is up and ready for action. A few candidates have already been added for you to vote on or you can submit one using the directions provided. If you are looking for inspiration here is a link to the most commonly viewed articles currently under the scope of Wikiproject United States. There are tons of good articles in the various US related projects as well so feel free to submit any article relating to US topics (not just those under the scope of WPUS). This noticeboard is intended for ‘’’All’’’ editors working on US subjects, not just those under WPUS.

The next item I intend to start updating is Portal:United States if anyone is interested in helping. Again this is not specific to WPUS and any help would be greatly appreciated to maximize visibility of US topics. The foundation has already been established its just a matter of updating the content with some new images, biographies and articles. Please let leave a comment on the Portals talk page or let me know if you have any questions or ideas. --Kumioko (talk) 19:05, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Photo requests
Hi! I have several Chicagoland photo requests that need to be fulfilled:
 * Kraft Foods headquarters - Three Lakes Drive Northfield, IL 60093
 * Sears Holding Corporation headquarters - 3333 Beverly Road Hoffman Estates, IL 60179
 * Walgreens headquarters - 200 Wilmot Road Deerfield, IL 60015
 * Sara Lee headquarters - 3500 Lacey Road Downers Grove, IL 60515-5424
 * Dominick's headquarters - 711 Jorie Boulevard, Oak Brook IL
 * Baxter International headquarters - One Baxter Parkway Deerfield, IL 60015-4625
 * Former United Airlines headquarters - 1200 East Algonquin Road, Elk Grove Township, Cook County, Illinois
 * Consulate-General of Poland in Chicago - 1530 N. Lake Shore Drive, Chicago, IL
 * Consulate General of Thailand in Chicago - 700 North Rush Street, Chicago, IL
 * Jewel-Osco headquarters - 150 Pierce, Itasca, IL 60143

Thank you, WhisperToMe (talk) 23:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe when the snow stops falling! :) Zagal e jo^^^ 03:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that too :) - Once the snow clears, it'll be time to take the photos! I remembered making a request regarding the LOT Polish Airlines HQ around February, and the guys told us "yeah, we'll wait until it gets warmer" - Sure enough, they got the photo around April WhisperToMe (talk) 08:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Apres snow, please consider that there are 319 sites in Chicago on the National Register of Historic Places, all but 48 have photos. Among the missing you might want to snap:
 * National Register of Historic Places listings in South Side Chicago 26 sites
 * National Register of Historic Places listings in North Side Chicago 18 sites
 * National Register of Historic Places listings in West Side Chicago 4 sites
 * National Register of Historic Places listings in Central Chicago is complete (but if you have a better photo, please replace the old one)

Just click the list and look for the ones without photos! Addresses and coords provided. Smallbones (talk) 00:53, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of NEIU Physical Education Complex


The article NEIU Physical Education Complex has been proposed for deletion&#32; because of the following concern:
 * A search for references found a few promotional web hits and no published (gbook) WP:RS, fails WP:V and WP:N, Does it exist; yes, are there reliable sources for any of the article content; No

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 11:51, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Chicago Loop
More eyes on Chicago Loop would be welcome. Edits such as this one are unsourced, but the previous text was unsourced as well. I have no idea which is correct, and my knowledge of the local geography is lacking. Rivertorch (talk) 19:31, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The newer edit can be supported by this site. However, if the West Loop is considered part of the Near West Side, then it probably shouldn't fall under the scope of the Chicago Loop article. User:TonyTheTiger probably knows more about the Loop than I do, so he's someone you could ask. Zagal e jo^^^ 06:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * In terms of what constitutes the West Side, I just go by the Community areas of Chicago such as Near West Side, Chicago.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:57, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a West Loop Gate city defined neighborhood seen here, and a West Loop residence defined area . They have different boundaries. I've seen a few boundary definitions for the West Loop residence defined area . --Nickvet419 (talk) 12:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Join 'Wikimedians Active in Local Regions of the United States' (WALRUS)!
We'd like to invite a representative from the group who should have some experience in organizing the local meetups, to join the Wikimedians Active in Local Regions of the United States (WALRUS) committee to help advance real-life Wikimedian activities in the US.--Pharos (talk) 22:15, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Have a great idea for a local park to host The Great American Wiknic in Chicago this June? Add it to the growing list here: Wiknic :)--Pharos (talk) 21:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I listed Wrigley Square, Millennium Park.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:40, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Gery Chico
Hi, I currently have the above article under review at Talk:Gery Chico/GA2. I am concerned that the nominator and primary recent editor has admitted a WP:COI. I would appreciate input from Chicagoans familiar with the subject matter who may spot areas where the article is missing information. The image presented is mostly positive, but is it sufficiently broad and neutral? I would appreciate any input at the review page. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:42, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Daniel Coughlin
I just did some work on the page for Daniel Coughlin, which is part of this project, and is currently listed as a "stub." Could someone please reassess the article? Thanks! NearTheZoo (talk) 19:26, 22 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot to note that I did this early.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:17, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Page move discussion
Please comment at Talk:Rod_Blagojevich_corruption_charges on moving Rod Blagojevich corruption charges → United States v. Blagojevich.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:04, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Meetup/Chicago 4
Announcing Meetup/Chicago 4.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

FLC comments needed!
Hello. Featured list candidates/List of Benet Academy alumni/archive1 has been up at FLC for over a month now, and I'd appreciate any further comments. Cheers, Edge3 (talk) 05:01, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Link Bridge and Outer Drive Bridge
Please comment at Talk:Link_Bridge.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:39, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Chicago TV help
I've started a working draft at Image Union for the classic WTTW TV show. I'm having difficulty finding historical info for the article, so any assistance would be appreciated! Skier Dude ( talk ) 06:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Good show! Are there any specific things you're looking for? I've found a number of possibly useful articles in the Sun-Times and Tribune archives. Zagal e jo^^^ 07:21, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Photo requests again
Hi! Just as a reminder, from my understanding these photo requests are still active. Please let me know if any of these have been fulfilled! Thank you! WhisperToMe (talk) 07:04, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Kraft Foods headquarters - Three Lakes Drive Northfield, IL 60093
 * Sears Holding Corporation headquarters - 3333 Beverly Road Hoffman Estates, IL 60179
 * Walgreens headquarters - 200 Wilmot Road Deerfield, IL 60015
 * Sara Lee headquarters - 3500 Lacey Road Downers Grove, IL 60515-5424
 * Dominick's headquarters - 711 Jorie Boulevard, Oak Brook IL
 * Baxter International headquarters - One Baxter Parkway Deerfield, IL 60015-4625
 * Former United Airlines headquarters - 1200 East Algonquin Road, Elk Grove Township, Cook County, Illinois
 * Consulate-General of Poland in Chicago - 1530 N. Lake Shore Drive, Chicago, IL
 * Consulate General of Thailand in Chicago - 700 North Rush Street, Chicago, IL
 * Jewel-Osco headquarters - 150 Pierce, Itasca, IL 60143

USCOTM
Someone has nominated Chicago at WP:USCOTM. Come by and comment.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Call for Participation: Wikimedia Mobile Research
Hi Chicago Wikipedians!

We (the very small WMF Mobile Research team) are looking for Wikipedia editors of English and other language Wikipedias to participate in a research study to observe and understand Wikipedia editors' current reading and editing practices on mobile devices (but we're interested other devices and computers used in your editing and browsing too!). We have partnered with Answerlab to carry out this study with us in San Francisco, Chicago, and Dallas.

Should you be interested, your participation would involve 3 activities: 1) Complete short online homework assignments, writing about yourself and/or your daily habits 2) Participate in a short phone interview in mid-September and 3) Participate in a 2 hour face-to-face interview to be conducted on or close to October 4th, 5th, and 6th (date and times to be confirmed).  The Wikimedia Foundation generally discourages any research agency from offering monetary incentives for participation, but all participants of this study will be offered a monetary gift (~$150) as our thanks.  More importantly, we can assure you an interesting conversation, excitement for Wikipedia and its mission, and our gratitude and appreciation.

Your participation would be extremely valuable to us and will help shape the strategy and development of the Wikipedia mobile properties and experience. It is also key to helping us better understand the more specific needs of editors like you so that we can support those processes. In addition to Wikipedia editors, we'll also be speaking with Wikipedia users in Chicago, as well as in SF and Dallas. We have recently conducted similar work in India and Brazil. Please see here and here for more on this work.

If you'd like to participate, please let us know by replying to myself and/or Brennan, Nick, Sal, and the other folks at Answerlab at editwiki@answerlab.com by September 10th. Also, if you know of editors in San Francisco or Dallas that would like to participate or know of appropriate mailing lists to reach editors in those regions, please email me at pvora [at] wikimedia.org and my colleague Mani at mpande [at] wikimedia.org.

Thanks so much, Parul — Preceding unsigned comment added by Parul Vora (talk • contribs) 23:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I am in.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:41, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I could help out as well. Just leave me a note on my talk page or send me an email when things get moving.  elektrik SHOOS  (talk) 18:53, 25 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds interesting, I'll bite. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 22:55, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Meetup/Chicago 5 - Wikipedia Loves Libraries event
Details to be determined, but tentatively plan for October 29th.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:03, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit-a-thon articles

 * Hi, this will be my first WP meet-up-- I'm very excited about meeting other WP editors since I know so few in person! I'm not exactly sure what to expect, but Tony mentioned to me that an edit-a-thon is likely to happen.  I thought it might be helpful to start generating a list of Chicago-related articles we might want to create/improve during our meet-up beforehand.  Here are a few suggestions from me:


 * Greektown, Chicago
 * Ravenswood, Chicago
 * Illinois Senate career of Barack Obama
 * Lollapalooza
 * All Saints Episcopal Church (Chicago, Illinois) - As the oldest wood-frame church building in the city
 * Behavioral Science Building (University of Illinois at Chicago) - Due to its unique architectural structure


 * Please feel free to add to this list if there are other articles that you feel need to be created or started that we could work on together at the meet-up. Looking forward to meeting all of you! I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 23:18, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I would like to propose that the primary topic be Barack Obama's Chicago years: This would give us the following as primary articles:
 * Early life and career of Barack Obama
 * Illinois Senate career of Barack Obama
 * United States Senate career of Barack Obama
 * It would give us the following secondary articles:
 * Barack Obama presidential campaign, 2008
 * 2004 Democratic National Convention keynote address
 * United States Senate election in Illinois, 2004
 * Barack Obama presidential primary campaign, 2008
 * For those not really interested in politics,
 * Kenwood District
 * Kenwood, Chicago could be greatly served by some attention.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:49, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jordan Statue
I can not find any articles on when they fenced in the Michael Jordan Statue. Does anyone know anything about when this happened.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:46, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's been that way for a while. See, for example, this picture from 1996. I'd be surprised if any sources actually mention an exact date. Zagal e jo^^^ 07:42, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Michael Jordan statue main image
I just uploaded two potential main images for the Michael Jordan statue. Please comment on your preferred main image.
 * SInce the statue is work of art and presumably copyrighted, there can only be one WP:FAIR USE image on Wikipedia (not Commons). The image should also be fairly low resolution. Because of this, the image which shows the most of the statue (and least of the background) would be best. This is File:Monument to a great.jpg, which I also like best for its perspective. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 16:03, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind that any of these can be cropped. And since they are fair use whatever one is chosen will at most be 450x600 in the end if not smaller. Lots of pixels to crop down from.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 19:20, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * The article in on the staue, so I chose the image that shows it in the most detail and from the best angle (IMO ;-) ). I am aware that images can be cropped, but I like the angle of the image I noted above - better view of the face and chest (with #23) and it also is clearer what the "opponent blob" part of the statue is. The other two images are (nearly) the same perspective and if cropped would be about the same image. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 19:52, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ruhrfisch. The statue just has more oomph when it's viewed from that angle. Zagal e jo^^^ 23:56, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Fall 2011 Photo Contest
WP:NRHP is having a Fall Photo Contest running from Oct. 21-Dec. 4, 2011. I'd like to encourage anybody who enjoys photography, as well as anybody who is interested in historic places or buildings, especially Chicago buildings, to participate as a photographer, a sponsor, or both.

One way that an individual editor or a project can participate is to sponsor their own challenge. For example, somebody here might want to include a challenge such as "A barnstar will be awarded to the photographer who adds the most photos to the NRHP Chicago lists of previously non-illustrated NRHP-listed buildings." To sponsor a challenge all you need to do is come up with an idea, post it on the contest page, and do the small bit of work needed to judge the winner(s).

Any and all contributions appreciated.

Smallbones (talk) 19:02, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Please note that the Chicago Project has a total of 7 barnstars up for grabs in this contest.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 16:41, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

CT Article Pull
Can you pull this article:


 * Hopper, Hedda. - "SHE SOLD HOLLYWOOD". - Chicago Tribune. - July 14, 1957. - F16.

("Miss Michaels Cuts Corners" in the Los Angeles Times)

Thanks. I doubt that there is an obit for Miss Michaels in the CT from 2001-SEP-25.

See if you can just post them as a *.JPG ?

Thanks again >>> Best O Fortuna (talk) 02:13, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I can access the article. (Anyone in this project who has a Chicago Public Library card should be able to get it.) Can I e-mail it to you? Zagal e jo^^^ 02:25, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sent. Let me know if there are any problems. Zagal e jo^^^ 03:10, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

New cat request
It seems to me that the University of Chicago should have a subcategory of Category:Alumni by medical school in the United States even though the category has not been extensively filled in. Does anyone know enough of the most famous alumni to create a useful cat.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 12:31, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

FA review
nominated Encyclopædia Britannica for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Snowman (talk) 19:52, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Neighborhoods
I've noticed the Neighborhoods are not all represented on wiki. I have been adding them to the proper spots on the community area templates. I've added them according if they overlap with the community area boundaries. Note: The Community area are not to be confused with the neighborhoods and should not be combined as the same feature. community areas collect census data like population and demographics and neighborhoods that area about culture. They are represented by two different maps and boundaries. There should be separate neighborhood articles created to represent them, not just sections within the community area articles. Some have already been created. We need to keep the community area separate articles from the same named neighborhoods. As the community areticle explains, "Although many community areas contain more than one neighborhood and may share the name of some of the neighborhoods. Community areas may encompass groups of neighborhoods. In some cases, the character of the community area is independent of that of the individual neighborhoods it comprises." I've also started adding all of the neighborhoods and fixing up the community area boundaries on google maps.--Nickvet419 (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Chinatown, Chicago Is a good example of a Neighborhood article with a well designed infobox. If the community area and Neighborhood have the same name, add (community area) or (neighborhood) after the title. --Nickvet419 (talk) 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I see you have created Neighborhoods in Chicago. You should remove the Community areas of Chicago from the template. Just include neighborhoods.  I also think some of the landmark districts that are not really neighborhoods might need to be removed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:05, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

ok, Finished separating City Official designated neighborhoods that appear on the GIS map with others in the nav template Template:Neighborhoods in Chicago. Still might be some missing from the list, I think I got them all. --Nickvet419 (talk) 11:57, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * working on that. Trying to separate the official according to the city map and unofficial. then we have to start working on the neighborhood articles and linking them correctly. feel free to help out. --Nickvet419 (talk) 07:18, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, some neighborhoods that aren't mentioned on this map are still recognized by the City of Chicago elsewhere (eg Boystown). We should be careful not to put too much weight into that particular PDF in terms of "official vs. unofficial". I don't think the city ever did a comprehensive study into the different neighborhoods; some city worker probably just slapped the map together after looking at one of those Big Stick maps. (That said, the PDF is still a much better resource than anything else I've seen from the city itself, and will be useful for many things going forward.) Zagal e jo^^^ 08:17, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The map has been around for longer that the stick maps.. The map provided comes from the Chicago GIS Map. The boundaries were originally created by a foot servey in the 1970's according to the wiki article. although, some of the newer housing developments have made it on the map since then. Since the city has this map available and dated 2009, we should follow it. If you can think of better words other than official and unofficial that would be great... But I think there should still be a seporation between what's mapped by the city and what's not.--Nickvet419 (talk) 08:28, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I'd like to learn more about that 1970s survey. The reference in that article is too vague to do me much good. I'm not immediately finding anything in any of the newspaper archives I can access, but I don't have many specific search terms to work with. As far as organizing the template, I would simply go with "On city map" and "Not on city map", or something like that. Zagal e jo^^^ 09:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Chicago GIS Viewer - Here is the Chicago GIS map. Customize the legend under "Community Development" to view the Neighborhood and community area boundaries. The explorechicago.org is a good source provided by the City of Chicago for the neighborhoods boundaries not on the GIS map. But the tourism site doesn't have much clarity between the community areas and neighborhoods. Like it says "Boystown Located within Lakeview"  It doesnt clearly state that is falls within the Lakeview community area / Lakeview East Neighborhood. --Nickvet419 (talk) 09:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC) I think the Boystown wiki page has it correct by calling it a district, kind of like the Theater District. It is a defined area, but not a official neighborhood for say. --Nickvet419 (talk) 09:47, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * We already have Community areas of Chicago, which presents very clear content to the reader. The new template is very muddled. I am not really sure what the meaning of official in the new context is.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:10, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Community areas of Chicago is for the community area boundaries of Chicago. The new Template:Neighborhoods in Chicago are for the neighborhood boundaries. The Community area are not the same as Neighborhoods and should be represented in separate articles. One reason is many of the Neighborhoods overlap into other Community areas, so the community area articles do not represent the full neighborhood, also the neighborhoods need their own infoboxes, there information/definitions/boudaries are different than the defined community area. The Official Neighborhoods First row of the new template are mapped out by the City of Chicago in the links i posted above.  The second row, Unoficial Neighborhoods, not mapped by the City and are defined by the residents that live in the area. Most of these could fall under categories other than neighborhoods like districts, park area's, perishes. That has yet to be determined. Does that clear thigs up? --Nickvet419 (talk) 13:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * They don't need separate articles. Neighborhoods generally speaking are an abstraction and in some cases are made up by realtors and/or the chamber of commerce (see: River North and the Museum Campus), while others simply come and go due to economic shifts (see: Packingtown). That list of 77 areas defined officially by the city are exactly that: official . What you are saying should 'go or be modified' (I'm quoting you from a different talk page, Nick) are not only consistent districts for census purposes, but they have been around for 31 years and aren't subject to our whims as Wikipedia editors. Each community article might (as some already do) contain neighborhood subsections (e.g. New City containing sections for Back of the Yards and Canaryville), but lets not get carried away with carving things up in an era where your average Chicago resident (at least many of those living north of Roosevelt and east of Western) hasn't lived in the same spot for more than five years. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 08:54, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

The neighborhood template you created uses a categorization that is at best both a bit pretentious as well as confusing. Given the criteria (as mentioned in the article) admits that the 'official' neighborhood map was comprised by researchers going door to door and asking people.... and again, the article states a a semi-official map is still in use today also weakens any claims as to what is officially recognized by the city (which, as I've already established was 'officially' subject to neighborhood opinion of the 1970s) Your classifications, inasmuch, should both be recognized as official according to that logic, as neighborhoods since the 70s have changed (some new ones, some have subdivided, etc.).
 * Was saying here that the neighborhood boundaries often fall between 2 or more community areas and cant properly be represented in both areas subsection. By making neighborhoods there own pages as some of them already have, you can have an article completely about the neighborhood with historical and current facts and not be constrained to the community area boundaries. Most neighborhoods have been around much longer than the community areas.--Nickvet419 (talk) 20:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC) Here's a fact. The neighborhoods and city parks have a direct link. Sometimes the neighborhood got its name from the city park it was located near or the park got its name from the neighborhood it was in. Some of the parks do not even fall within the boundaries of the community area they share a name with and the neighborhood subsection falls. This is because those community area got there names from the neighborhoods they were in relative location with.   This is one issue neighborhood articles would fix among many things concerning boundaries.--Nickvet419 (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I arrived here because I saw the merge template placed on the Chinatown article. Chicago's Chinatown is more than notable enough to warrant it's own article. Neighborhoods should have their own articles when they are notable enough for it, just like every other article on Wikipedia. Also, Nick, I reverted your change the Chinatown map. The first map is a much more accurate representation of what area Chinatown encompasses. -- T orsodo g Talk 21:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ok, i was going off of hard official boundary lines. I could probably add soft unoficial boundary lines as well since the area has expanded to the north.--Nickvet419 (talk) 01:54, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Since when are there "hard official boundary lines" for neighborhoods? If anything, that map you posted above is just an outline. They are by no means "hard" or "official". The lines you drew for Chinatown didn't even include Chinatown Square, let alone Ping Tom Memorial Park, both very important parts of Chinatown. I'm not sure where you got those "official" lines, but they were way off. I would be weary of using that map to draw any lines on a map without digging deeper. -- T orsodo g Talk 01:59, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * the official maps are published by the city of chicago and found on their gis portal.--Nickvet419 (talk) 02:14, 21 November 2011 (UTC) also can be found here --Nickvet419 (talk) 02:16, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The sources are official, the maps are not. How can there be "official" maps for fluid neighborhoods? The bottom line is that your "official" maps of Chinatown don't include areas that are very clearly part of Chinatown. That alone should show you that the maps are more guidelines than hard lines. -- T orsodo g Talk 02:20, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * ok ill do a more accurate map and you can see if you like it. --Nickvet419 (talk) 03:27, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Instead of spearheading this neighborhood-defining project and assuming you're more in the know more than anyone else in WP Chicago on the matter, why not present the idea in a roundtable fashion rather than pontificate what your view on what is official and un-official? Chicago is a very large city, and I'd venture to say there are academics (like professors at various Chicago universities) who specialize in urban geography who can't verify what's official. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 19:08, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Vilid point. And I never stated that "I am more in the know"... So please don't attack me in that manner. That is why I took this project to the WikiProject Chicago. The questions have already been presented on the use of Official and Unofficial on the template. The Map made by the City of Chicago is the "best Official map" given by the city unless other Official maps can be found like the Chinatown community maps that show the areas have expanded or changed. I "spearheaded" the making of the template because it was needed and to get the ball rollong on documenting the many Chicago neighborhoods. It is still very unfinished. If you have a better way of managing the validity of the neighborhoods on it besides what on the official map and what is not, please state that Template_talk:Neighborhoods_in_Chicago. Im my oppinion and some others, The neighborhoods themselves are notable enough to have their own articles and template for navigation on the wiki. They should not be restricted to the community area pages sub articles. As I stated before the terms of Community area and Neighborhood differ and should not be combined on the wiki. --Nickvet419 (talk) 19:27, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

What remains problematic, and what I think you may not be following what I'm saying, is that whether you find them sensible or not, the community areas are a verifiable, concrete designation, while the neighborhood map is an abstract concept. Yes, there are some problems with viewing things at a macro level, but there's more to debate at the micro. That map does have the city of Chicago seal on it, and yes, the new mayor's name is there, but, that same map was available back in 2002 at the Seminary Co-Op bookstore by the UofC with Mayor Daley's name on it (and if you doubt the laziness of City Hall, look at the bottom left corner, you'll see its dated 2009... Emmanuel wasn't mayor until spring of this year). We also don't know whop comprised the map and by what data they were using. Given that the original map was charted out in the 1970s, and was based on such hard science as asking people what neighborhood they lived in, we don't know what informs that map today. Some of it is outdated.Cabrini Greens and Stateway Gardens are gone. Yes there is an arrow pointing to where they were on the map, but in the case of Stateway, that's mainly a stretch of empty blocks today, not a neighborhood by anyone's standards (neighborhoods require residents and residences).

What is at stake here is the provable facts based in verifiable sources. Neighborhoods change. Yes, certain large and established neighborhoods (e.g. Wicker Park) may very well warrant separate articles, but to argue that Cabrini Greens is a neighborhood, regardless of what's on the map, the project has since been demolished. That was Cabrini-Green. The rest of the neighborhood adjacent the area around Seward Park is/was not. I applaud your efforts, but don't make things any more complicated than they need to be for Wikipedia users. Particularly those that don't know Chicago from the moon.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 01:29, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * I completely agree with the above. Just the example of Chinatown shows that that map is not a reliable source when it comes to boundaries for neighborhoods and therefore it shouldn't be used as such. -- T orsodo g Talk 04:06, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok, so lets email the city GIS or other community based city departments and see if they have more info on that map?  There are a number of neighborhood/community websites available from alderman offices and camber of commerce. Maybe they can provide a more detailed map of the neighborhoods in their areas. The thing is there are many sites on the web that use the official city map like everyblock.com that focuses on neighborhood information and networking.  There are other sites that use third party maps like Emporis who uses dreamtown map or Chicago.com. --Nickvet419 (talk) 05:48, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


 * or we can drive around looking for the "Welcome to" neighborhood signs that are all around the city.--Nickvet419 (talk) 05:53, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Robert Taylor Homes
(Moved from User talk:TonyTheTiger) Two articles about one (demolished) housing project? There already was a relatively comprehensive article for RTH and now, the WP:Chicago's newest geographer has created a separate article based on his outdated map. This is the new one which is actually an inaccurate representation given that the properties there is not named for Robert Taylor. Just thought you'd like to know. 75.22.22.141 (talk) 00:42, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Community Area maps deleted... WTF?
For whatever reason (someone must have filed a motion to do so) a whole lot of the map images accompanying numerous articles for Chicago Community areas have been deleted. I'm not sure why this happened, but they've been up here as far back as I can remember, and are the official community areas defined by the city, so it isn't like they aren't legit. Could someone please check into this?

If you want a few examples to see what I'm talking about, see the following: Logan Square, Armour Square, Bridgeport, McKinley Park, Austin, New City,, Beverly, these are just a few of several that I have clicked. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 06:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I started a discussion at Fastily's talk page. Zagal e jo^^^ 06:16, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Why did you start it there. It should be held here. Thus, whatever the resolution is would be on the record here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:19, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I had to contact Fastily somehow, and I did tell him to consider posting his reply here. Zagal e jo^^^ 19:52, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

CONVERSATION MOVED BACK HERE from User_talk:Fastily Hi, Fastily. Could you please explain why you deleted most of the Chicago community area maps (eg, File:US-IL-Chicago-CA10.GIF, File:US-IL-Chicago-CA11.GIF, File:US-IL-Chicago-CA12.GIF, etc). I thought those had been created by a Wikipedian years ago, but since I'm not an admin, I can't see exactly what the file pages said. These maps were very useful, so it would be great if we could get things straightened out. Consider posting a reply at WT:CHICAGO, because I know a few other project members have expressed concerns about the deletions. Thanks. Zagal e jo^^^ 00:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * They were all PD-ineligible, and were tagged by FSII as no source. I don't believe they should have been deleted - they appear to have been drawn by the uploader, who created loads of these, most of them being eventually replaced by .pngs.  I can restore them, but it would probably be worth (a)checking that there are no .png or .svg versions and (b) asking at Graphic Lab/Map workshop to have .png versions made. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:54, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Wait, please don't restore them just yet! They're missing source information, which must be supplied, regardless of what the license tag is. I'll restore them granted you can identify the original author/source of these files.  - F ASTILY  (TALK) 01:11, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I haven't restored them - I think they have been replaced by .png files anyway. Or they should be. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC) File:US-IL-Chicago-CA06.png is one of the replacements (now on commons). I agree it would be nice to have the source info filled out, but these files are all ineligible for copyright anyway, so I would disagree with deleting them, other than that the graphics lab folks will make .png files for them that would be better anyway.

I'm pretty sure that this editor was the one who uploaded them, given that he/she was the source for several of the other Chicago Community area map files that had all the proper source-citation info filled out. But there are other editors who have uploaded them as well... and it doesn't appear that Oo64eva has done any editing in a while, so I'm not sure if he/she can be contacted expeditiously to confirm. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 06:45, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Several of these were not deleted. In order Rogers Park, Chicago (community area 1) uses File:US-IL-Chicago-CA01.png; West Ridge, Chicago (community area 2) uses File:US-IL-Chicago-CA02.png; Uptown, Chicago (community area 3) uses File:US-IL-Chicago-CA03.png; and Lincoln Square, Chicago (community area 4) uses File:US-IL-Chicago-CA04.png for starters. I have not checked others. Something haphazard must be going on with these files.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:17, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

The Above Conversation was copied from User_talk:Fastily

Break for conversation return here

 * This topic is of high importance to the project and seems to be getting pushed off to someplace where it will be lost. We need to get these pictures back so let's discuss it here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:52, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Can we start with a list of which images have been deleted?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:57, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Most of them: Zagal e jo^^^ 05:36, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * O.K. It seems to be neighborhoods 9–77. Is that correct? Why not 1–8? What is the crux of this issue?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Presumably, those had the proper source information, and the deleted ones didn't. Zagal e jo^^^ 06:13, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I have asked to come comment here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:57, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Zagalejo is correct, the files I deleted were missing source information. - F ASTILY  (TALK) 22:40, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * 1–6 were previously deleted as they had been replaced by PNG files--see here. The original GIF files were uploaded by in December 2004; he marked them all as PD but gave no source information. PNG versions of 1–6 were added by  in May 2005 and moved to the Commons in May of this year--to me it looks that these PNG files were straight conversions of the original GIF files and not new creations by Oo64eva; so they are really no source too. —Jeremy (talk) 23:17, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A check of the upload history for (here shows three of his CA files have not been deleted (CA41, CA56, CA58). For CA41 and CA56 he has named himself as the source. Unfortunately he has not edited since May 2006, but I think it not unreasonable to AGF and undelete all these files giving him as the source unless there is good reason to believe otherwise.—Jeremy (talk) 23:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

List of neighborhood articles with the map images deleted (add/remove as necessary)

 * Logan Square (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA22.GIF)
 * Armour Square (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA34.GIF)
 * Bridgeport (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA60.GIF)
 * Lower West Side (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA31.GIF)
 * McKinley Park ( File:US-IL-Chicago-CA59.GIF)
 * Austin (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA25.GIF)
 * New City, (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA61.GIF)
 * Beverly (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA72.GIF)
 * South Deering (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA51.GIF)
 * Pullman (Pullman_Location_in_Chicago.GIF)
 * Edison Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA09.GIF)
 * Norwood Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA10.GIF)
 * Jefferson Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA11.GIF)
 * Forest Glen (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA12.GIF)
 * North Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA13.GIF)
 * Albany Park ( File:US-IL-Chicago-CA14.GIF)
 * Portage Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA15.GIF)
 * Irving Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA16.GIF)
 * Dunning (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA17.GIF)
 * Montclare (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA18.GIF)
 * Belmont Cragin (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA19.GIF)
 * Hermosa (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA20.GIF)
 * Avondale ( File:US-IL-Chicago-CA21.GIF)
 * Humboldt Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA23.GIF)
 * West Town (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA24.GIF)
 * West Garfield Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA26.GIF)
 * East Garfield Park (File:US-IL-Chicago-CA27.GIF)

Ryecatcher773 (talk) 06:01, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I just struck this list as too incomplete to be useful. Let's keep the conversation in the subsection above.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:55, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems to be 9–77. See above.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:07, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Seriously? I've started a list (a list that anyone who wants to assist can add to) tracking down the original file names of the images that were deleted and listed them with the corresponding article and you're saying let's keep it to a conversation? We know what happened. Let's get to fixing it. What more is there to talk about? Ryecatcher773 (talk) 18:06, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I saw it as distracting from the discussion above that has figured out the full list. If you want go ahead and fill it in.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:03, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * You can still find smaller versions of the files here www.ask.com/wiki/Community_areas_of_Chicago--Nickvet419 (talk) 22:35, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Admins can view the full list of deleted files at Special:DeletedContributions/Gerard_Czadowski. It would be easier to list what hasn't been deleted: File:US-IL-Chicago-CA69.GIF, File:US-IL-Chicago-CA40.GIF, File:US-IL-Chicago-CA08.GIF still exist as they were moved to the commons prior to the deletions; File:US-IL-Chicago-CA41.GIF, File:US-IL-Chicago-CA56.GIF, and File:US-IL-Chicago-CA58.GIF still exist because the uploader gave himself as the source; 1–6 still exist as PNG files that were moved to the commons. —Jeremy (talk) 00:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

The salient question though is: can they be un-deleted? Ryecatcher773 (talk) 00:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * See my comments in the 'Break for conversation return here' section above. I am happy to undelete if Fastily agrees with me that Gerard Czadowski intended to make 'self' as the source. However, I think that these files would be better as SVG files, so perhaps this would be a good time to try to find someone to make some new ones.—Jeremy (talk) 00:52, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Can they be converted from the GIF to SVG files? Because otherwise, we're looking at a complete re-draw of 69 new maps... that's a lot of work when you consider the uploading and re-entering all the file data at each of the respective articles.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 00:59, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * A shape file for the community areas is available here with what looks to be an attribution license. I think I can make SVG files from the shape file. —Jeremy (talk) 01:21, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I can do it over the next week or so: File:US-IL-Chicago-CA01.svg. —Jeremy (talk) 01:31, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help with this! Zagal e jo^^^ 20:58, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * According to commons Category:Maps of Chicago community areas 40 of these have now been created. It seems we are over half way there. Keep it up.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:42, 8 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I should finish roll-out by the weekend. It would be useful if someone would check for silly mistakes (areas numbered incorrectly, wrong map on wrong page, etc…).—Jeremy (talk) 22:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

All Done. —Jeremy (talk) 22:52, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Outstanding. Thank you for your hard work. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I have dropped a barnstar on your page.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:53, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Community area streetmaps
I have created several community area streetmaps. Some community areas with streetmaps to complement the citywide community area map include Near South Side, Chicago, Chicago Loop, Near North Side, Chicago, Lincoln Park, Chicago, Washington Park, Chicago (Community area), Kenwood, Chicago, Woodlawn, Chicago, Hyde Park, Chicago, South Shore, Chicago. I am wondering if we want to try to roll these out for every community area since we are collectively discussing mapping issues.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:51, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Featured Article Drive
left a note on my page reminding me that August 15, 2012 will be the bicentennial of the Battle of Fort Dearborn—it would be good to have that article or the Fort Dearborn article on the main page at around that time. I prefer that battle, but await feedback.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:09, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There doesn't seem to be much interest here, but I'll make a start on Battle of Fort Dearborn Tony.—Jeremy (talk) 15:56, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm going to tinker with it a bit. There are a lot of uncited facts right now.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:50, 30 December 2011 (UTC)