Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 14

Looking for help in article revision.
Hi!

I am planning a complete revision of the article List of acupuncture points. Details on this can be found on the discussion page of the article. There are some issues I have with pinyin and chinese character usage and handling by the wikipedia search engine. Furthermore it might be that there are some important details I do know nothing about at the moment.

If this is the right location to ask for kind support, please visit the the discussion page of the article and help me to get a clearer idea of what needs to be done. Otherwise please hint me where I might find help with this.

Thank you!--Nicolasnicolas (talk) 10:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

People from Autonomous Prefectures
Recently I've been trying to subcategorizing the various "People from [Province]" categories since they were becoming too large, and I've done it by prefectural divisions. One difficulty that I've run into is this: typically, people from prefectural cities I've included Category:People by city in China as supercategories, but autonomous prefectures don't really fit that (since they are not, even by name, cities. I am contemplating creating a category Category:People from autonomous prefectures in China (or, "of China" or "People's Republic of China autonomous prefectures" — ROC currently has nothing of this nature, but has contemplated creating Taiwanese aborigine autonomous areas) and making it a subcategory of Category:Chinese people, but I wonder if there are thoughts about it.  --Nlu (talk) 16:14, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I do not want to pour a bucket of cold water on your great work, but I have some real reservations about 'dividing' these categories according to prefecture-level cities. If you read a bit into the history of Chinese administration you will find that this "prefecture-level" was essentially a creation of the Communist Party to streamline the hierarchial bureaucracy - i.e., so that provinces would not have to directly govern hundreds of counties under its jurisdiction. Historically, people have only been identified by the county they are from - as in the format of [county], [province]. Even today people are generally not said to come from a prefecture-level city unless they are indeed from the urban area. Chinese snooker megastar Ding Junhui is said to be from Yixing, Jiangsu; not from Wuxi, the prefecture-level city of which Yixing is under jurisdiction (although the English article still makes this mistake - the Chinese article does not). This becomes especially problematic in cities like Yiwu, which is clearly more known nationally and internationally than Jinhua, the prefecture under which Yiwu is governed. People from Yiwu would never say they are "from Jinhua", nor are they described as such in any reputable Chinese publications. Furthermore, there are also problems with large prefectures in Qinghai - many of their residents do not know which prefecture they actually live in. This is not to mention Hainan - which has no prefecture-level intermediary; only counties and two large cities. Given these problems I would support reverting back to the old system, but perhaps make some special exceptions for people from large cities - such as Nanjing, Qingdao, Xiamen, Dalian, Guangzhou etc. Colipon+ (Talk) 19:06, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I do understand that, but I also do think that the prefectural-city division to be at least a somewhat useful one that is comparable to the old Qing- and pre-Qing days of divisions by prefecture. (E.g., someone would be known as from Yangzhou, Fuzhou, Dezhou, &c., even though the county of origin is also given.)  Without breaking down by something (and I am not necessarily enamored with the prefectural-divisions) the provincial categories get too large and too unwieldy.  --Nlu (talk) 19:11, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I completely understand why these changes are being implemented. I am fine with smaller divisions - but I would advise this be done only for large cities, and only include people who can reasonably be identified as being "from" there. This would also be more practical for enthusiastic individuals like yourself, so you do not have to divide up every province into its prefectures. For example, a person from a suburban district in Nanjing can be reasonably described as being "from Nanjing", but a person from Kunshan should not by any means be described as being "from Suzhou". Categorizing people like this by prefecture would amount to some degree of WP:OR. Colipon+ (Talk) 19:18, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see how OR is an issue. These are not division that I created; these are what the PRC government uses, and so regardless of whether one from Ci County might consider himself/herself to be "from Handan" or not, it is factually correct (and not OR) to categorize him/her as "from Handan."  Whether it is wise to do so is something that can/should be discussed, but I don't see how it should be considered incorrect or OR.  --Nlu (talk) 21:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll also add that I think this has precedence back from at least as far as the Tang Dynasty. For example, soldiers of Weibo Circuit would be referred to as "of Wei Prefecture" (Weibo's capital) even though they clearly wouldn't all be actually from Wei Prefecture.  --Nlu (talk) 21:27, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


 * What you refer to with the "zhou" (prefect) has been around for longer than the Tang Dynasty - probably goes back to the Zhou Dynasty in ancient pre-history. These "prefectures" served both administrative and military purposes - and did not always govern the counties surrounding them. It is factually correct to say that someone from Ci County comes "from an area administratively under the city of Handan", but not factually correct to say that he comes "from Handan", as that would be interpreted as being from the Handan urban area. Historically, Chinese biographies generally cite someone as being from [province], [county], I have yet to see general biographies that specifically use [province], [prefecture], [county] to describe people. This is especially true for people born before these prefectures were established. My view is simple - the Prefecture's relevance is administrative in nature and should not be used to describe where people are "from", and I have listed several problems in my first comment. It may be wise to ask for other opinions as well. Colipon+ (Talk) 00:27, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

(unindented) For example of "prefecture, county," see biographies in the Book of Tang and the New Book of Tang. (E.g., Guo Ziyi's biography, Ma Sui's biography, and Du Huangshang's biography.) (Note that in Du Huangshang's biography, the use of Jingzhao is, in my opinion, exactly analogous to the use of the PRC's prefectural-level administrative units, since Jingzhao Municipality was what Yong Prefecture became.) This type of references actually continued well-past the Tang Dynasty. See, e.g., Han Jian (韓建)'s biography (Later Liang Dynasty); Ding Hui (丁會)'s biography (Later Tang Dynasty); Yang Ye's biography (Song Dynasty). Basically, not until the Yuan impositions of the provincial boundaries did the use of prefectures begin to decrease. --Nlu (talk) 00:47, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Major cities of Greater China
See here, if you have any opinion on the matter. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 23:30, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

New article Chinezenmoord (Dutch-Indonesian progrom of 1740)
Ran across this article on nl.wiki, translated the lede to form at least a stub, and got a historical engraving off of Google. Long/short, the Dutch citizens in Indonesia attacked the Chinese community in Jakarta to prevent that group from gaining power. I figured it's a significant event in the history of the Overseas Chinese and worth noting here. I'd welcome any inputs to this from the Chinese perspective. MatthewVanitas (talk) 09:47, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

East Asian snowstorms of 2009-2010
The article East Asian snowstorms of 2009-2010 needs work, is anyone willing to help clean up the article?

76.66.197.17 (talk) 16:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Query about sourcing
I have just posted a query to Reliable Sources noticeboard about an article in a Chinese language source. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 07:49, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Cantonese (again!)
Some people are not tired of polls about the article name... please see Talk:Cantonese (Yue) Ohconfucius  ¡digame! 08:29, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Template:Cantonese-tiyjp
Cantonese-tiyjp has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.211.138 (talk) 05:41, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:07, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Chinese company article needing attention
If Feiyue really is important a company as the article proposes, then it needs plenty of work. Steven Walling 19:48, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Energy in China
Notice from Wikiproject Energy: This new article requires attention from members of this wikiproject. Regards. Rehman(+) 13:57, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Wonton noodle
Forgive me if there's a better way to list move discussions related to this wikiproject, I couldn't find any. Anyway looking for more feedback at Talk:Wonton noodle Nil Einne (talk) 12:27, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Help with Kung Fu template
If anyone is willing to help in with this template.

Dwanyewest (talk) 20:55, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

What works of the Chinese government are in the public domain?
Like every discussion of public domain government publications on Wikipedia, the article public domain says that works of the U.S. government are in the public domain... and after that, they're done! I did a little digging and found a 2007 news story that many Chinese government works apparently are or can be placed in the "public domain". An item from 2006 said that ''"# Chinese Law shall not be applicable to: (l) laws; regulations; resolutions, decisions and orders of State organs; other documents of a legislative, administrative or judicial nature; and their official translations; # But:A work created by compilation of several works, parts of works, data that do not constitute a work or other materials and having originality in the selection or arrangement of its contents is a work of compilation..." [and copyrightable, though it's not clear to me if this is only by private publishers who do the compilation?]''

I think it would be very useful for Wikipedia as a whole if we knew exactly what Chinese government materials could be freely copied. I'd be especially interested to hear of any botanical or herbal information, pharmacopoeias, biomedical publications or abstract databases that might be freely copied for articles in Wikipedia. Wnt (talk) 19:30, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Oyster sauce
There's a bizarre edit war going over at Oyster sauce, where a user is apparently insisting that oyster sauce was known in the West by 1815. The only problem is that the sauce in question was made from melted butter and has nothing whatsoever to do with the Chinese stuff! Keeping an eye on the article and/or any comments on the Talk page would be appreciated. Jpatokal (talk) 11:30, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Sino-German cooperation (1911–1941) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.  YellowMonkey  ( Southern Stars photo poll )  06:21, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Help finding Han characters and a company website
Hello; I was wondering if anyone could help me out. I've created an article for the manhua An Ideal World (or Seek Self's World in China), but can't find the Han characters written out for the name. It's on the cover of the Chinese edition here, at Xiao Pan's site, but I can't type them up. Also, I want to find the release date for the volume in China, but can't for the life of me find the Tian Jin Creator World Comic Company's website or at least something I can source. Yen press has apparently licensed it from Xiao Pan instead of the original company, so they don't list the original publication date in the back of the book. Help would be greatly appreciated. WhiteArcticWolf (talk)
 * I replied on your talk page --LLTimes (talk) 04:11, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

The nationality of Yoshiko Kawashima
In the article of the above, a question is posted about the legal citizenship of Yoshiko Kawashima. She was born a Chinese, but she was adopted by a Japanese. Should this not make her a Japanese citizen? But if she was a Japanese citizen, how could she be executed for treason against China? Did she have double citizenship?--85.226.47.128 (talk) 13:56, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Hong Kong Amateur Radio Transmitting Society
FYI, Hong Kong Amateur Radio Transmitting Society has been nominated for deletion via AfD. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 06:35, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Dongyi
Hi editors and participants on WikiProject China, you are needed on the Dongyi article and its talk page regarding content dispute. Several paragraphs of new contents were added by User:Reriemw and User:Ecourr to the article.

All of cited sources are Chinese-language web articles and single sentence citations referring to "historical Chinese records"; I found many of them problematic, even the Chinese "peer-reviewed" electronic sources the user is using, and many sources actually do not support the statements the user wrote.--TheLeopard (talk) 19:26, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Redirect
Anyone disagree on redirecting Chinese Communist Revolution to Chinese Revolution? This article seems to be a copy of the Chinese civil war article. Benjwong (talk) 06:46, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you redirect it to Chinese Revolution, the searcher would not be able to find what they are looking for (i.e. the events of 1949). I think it would be better to redirect to Chinese civil war.--Danaman5 (talk) 15:04, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done. Benjwong (talk) 00:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Lists of Chinese townships by province
Hi. I wondered if somebody would be interested in drawing up a a list of townships by province at here. I've spotted a mass of articles in the Hudong Encyclopedia but we'd need a source to be able to draw them up by province organized by prefecture/county and also to have the townships linked in the county articles. Once the list is drawn up I'd be willing to help get the articles on townships started as info seems to be avilable in Chinese for most of them, however basic..I understand it would not be done overnight, but it could be done a province at a time. I've started List of townships of Xinjiang. I want to start all of them like Yanqi Town. Could somebody list them for me? ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 19:16, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

civil wars
Shouldn't there be a disambiguation page Chinese Civil War (disambiguation) for all the various other civil wars through the centuries? 70.29.210.242 (talk) 23:41, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Writing Pinyin for classical poetry
If anyone ever writes Pinyin for classical poetry, please note that it isn't as simple as looking characters up in a modern dictionary and writing the Pinyin down. There is a process one has to follow in order to do it correctly. I've just edited the Pinyin of Man Jiang Hong to reflect this process. To learn this process, please see the .pdf's available here and the videos here and here.174.23.230.220 (talk) 04:30, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Template:Latin-C
FYI, Latin-C has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 07:12, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Quenby Fung
The article on Quenby Fung a Hong Kong writer, tagged for your Project last year, has also been tagged for the Children's Literature Project. It is a biography of a living person which lacks acceptable sources and is liable to be nominated for deletion. I have been unable to find any sources in English to support the text. I have left a message on the Talk page of the article's original creator but he/she may not be active in Wikipedia currently. I'm wondering whether anyone over here might be interested enough to take the time to have a look and see whether suitable references can be found.--Plad2 (talk) 07:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

People's Republic of China → China
See talk:People's Republic of China - there's another rename to "China" request; again.

70.29.210.242 (talk) 23:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Fight history of Bruce Lee
FYI, Fight history of Bruce Lee has been nominated for deletion via AfD.

70.29.210.242 (talk) 06:17, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

the 'Me Generation'
I know I've heard of Ba ling hou, but I can't remember where. Anyhow, it's effectively an essay, and if someone can adopt the page and (hopefully) redirect it to the already-existing page, I'd appreciate it. This is a drive-by notice, I'm not following this page, so a talkback would be nice if needed. Cheers! tedder (talk) 07:38, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Comparison between Roman and Han Empires
FYI, Comparison between Roman and Han Empires has been requested to be renamed, see talk:Comparison between Roman and Han Empires

70.29.210.242 (talk) 08:16, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

China → Chinese civilization
FYI, China has been requested to be renamed to Chinese civilziation; again.

See Talk:People's Republic of China.

70.29.210.242 (talk) 08:27, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Chinese Division Table.png
FYI, image:Chinese Division Table.png has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 06:15, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Four Great Inventions HK Stamps.jpg
FYI, Image:Four Great Inventions HK Stamps.jpg has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:04, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

China National Space Administration
FYI, China National Space Administration has been requested to be renamed.

70.29.210.242 (talk) 05:05, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Should these two Ming articles be merged?
Ming Dynasty and History of the Ming Dynasty. It seems to me that anything we write on a historical subject is history, even if it's history of the literature of a period. Dougweller (talk) 17:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't one supposed to be a subarticle of the other? It's perfectly reasonable to have subarticles of a topic like the Ming Dynasty. 70.29.210.242 (talk) 07:03, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Should not be merged. The history article is a subarticle of Ming dynasty at best. Benjwong (talk) 23:26, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

GA Review of Akmal Shaikh on hold
The GA review of the Akmal Shaikh article, which is tagged as being within the scope of this project, has been on hold for over 30 days. It is near to being passed, but the Akmal_Shaikh section needs editing to reduce the amount of direct quotation as per Quotations, and also to be trimmed in general to meet GA criteria 3(b): "stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail". Any assistance in this matter would be appreciated. See Talk:Akmal Shaikh/GA1 for more detail. (If you feel that the article does not fall under the scope of this project, please remove the project tag from the article talkpage).  SilkTork  *YES! 10:34, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The article has now passed.  SilkTork  *YES! 14:04, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Successors to Qing Dynasty
Hi WikiProject China, your help and input is needed on the Qing Dynasty article. User:Jean-Jacques Georges has added icons of Tibet (1912–1950) and Outer Mongolia, 1911-1919 as successor states to the Qing Dynasty on the article's template inbox. I reverted the user's edit several times, as I think such addition might cause potential conflict and confusion to the article (the reason of the user's addition was because of the de facto independence status of Tibet (1912–1950) and Russia's recognition of Outer Mongolia, 1911-1919)), as the Republic of China in mainstream sources is generally seen as the direct political successor to the Qing Dynasty.--TheLeopard (talk) 14:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Unknown airport in China
Hello!

Can somebody help with identifying in China? I forgot where this was. Thanks! --High Contrast (talk) 20:06, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think this is Chongqing Airport. I hope it's not too late. I find a Chinese word meaning Chongqing in the picture.--Certiffon (talk) 06:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot
Okip  01:15, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Currently the page shows over 450 unreferenced living people.  Thanks for fixing the listing and thanks bringing this to my attention. I appreciate your dedication to the project. Okip   13:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
 * WikiProject China/Unreferenced BLPs Now up to 460. wow. Okip  01:51, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

List of Shanghai Metro stations
FYI, List of Shanghai Metro stations has been prodded for deletion.

70.29.210.242 (talk) 04:54, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Discussion on the future of the list is taking place on the talk page. Are there any members of this WP who would like to work the article up into a proper list in a table format. At the moment, the list could be seen as meeting CSD A3 and therefore in danger of being deleted. I feel that the subject of the list is notable enough to sustain such a list, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about it to tackle this myself. Mjroots (talk) 07:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Featured Article Candidate: Go review it!
St. Michael's Cathedral, Qingdao is a current FA candidate. So far nobody has supported or opposed the nomination. Please make your opinion known. Review Page Here ɳorɑfʈ  Talk! 16:02, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Three Gorges Dam
Just thought the pic on Water might be best to add in the Three Gorges Dam page. Thanks, Marasama (talk) 18:48, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Category:Companies of China Renaming
Please go to Categories for discussion/Log/2010 March 23 to discuss renaming all PRC Company cat to China or vise versa split all cat to China and PRC, which company established before 1949 put to China (or both China and PRC) and all company established after 1949 to PRC cat only. My proposal is tread Qing China, ROC (1911-1945) and PRC as one category system. Matthew_hk  t  c  05:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Cantonese (Yue) ... again
User:Kwamikagami again unilaterally moved a Cantonese article, this time Cantonese (Yue) to Yue Chinese. Now, he's established a requested move to rename it to that name at Talk:Cantonese (Yue).

He has also been reported to ANI, see this entry

76.66.192.73 (talk) 06:48, 28 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I can't believe this user is still an admin, he's done these unilateral moves five or six times by now and you'd think he would take a hint when he gets reverted each time. Next to Falinn Gung, nothing has ever been more discouraging to me on WP than working with this Kwami fellow. Colipon+ (Talk) 07:33, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Just a side note here, but I wish that users would not casually mention FG on this talk page. I am against censorship in all its forms, but as long as that phrase is on this page, no one from mainland China who is not on a proxy or VPN will be able to visit this page without unintentionally tripping the censorship and losing access to Wikipedia temporarily.--Danaman5 (talk) 18:25, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for reminding me. :) Colipon+ (Talk) 19:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, it's weird that he's still an admin after ignoring RfCs. At least, a topic-ban should be enacted on Cantonese/Canton/GZ/GD articles should be enacted. The unilateral moves are disruptive, and against the procedure for pages that have had WP:RM discussions. 76.66.192.73 (talk) 05:29, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Well they ended up moving it to "Yue Chinese" anyway after Kwami went and did a convenient 'recharacterization' of the discussion to one of his fellow admins. Colipon+ (Talk) 20:09, 29 March 2010 (UTC)