Wikipedia talk:WikiProject China/Archive 15

Notification regarding Wikipedia-Books
As detailed in last week's Signpost, WikiProject Wikipedia books is undertaking a cleanup all Wikipedia books. Particularly, the saved book template has been updated to allow editors to specify the default covers of the books. Title, subtitle, cover-image, and cover-color can all be specified, and an HTML preview of the cover will be generated and shown on the book's page (an example of such a cover is found on the right). Ideally, all books in Category:Book-Class China-related articles should have covers.

If you need help with the saved book template, or have any questions about books in general, see Help:Books, Books, and WikiProject Wikipedia-Books, or ask me on my talk page. Also feel free to join WikiProject Wikipedia-Books, as we need all the help we can get.

This message was delivered by User:EarwigBot, at 01:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC), on behalf of Headbomb. Headbomb probably isn't watching this page, so if you want him to reply here, just leave him a message on his talk page. Earwig Bot ( owner &bull;  talk ) 01:38, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Chinese scientists
What infobox should be used for Chinese scientists? I just counted the use of infoboxes in category:Chinese scientists, with the following results: I would think the optimum would be a combination of Chinese and {tl|Infobox scientist}}; the problem with that is that it would be static, by which I mean that if either of these template changes, the changes would not be included in the combined template. Are there any better ideas? &mdash; Sebastian 22:08, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
 * 58 (the vast majority) don't use any infobox at all,
 * 2 use Chinese (ex.: Ma Jun),
 * 8 use Infobox scientist (ex. Shen Kuo),
 * 3 use Infobox Person (ex.: Su Song).
 * 1 uses another infobox.

Capitalisation of ancient
In an attempt to get a project wide consensus and WP:MOS standard I've started a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(capital_letters) - eg the correct form of "Pottery of A/ancient China". Please contribute if possible.77.86.119.83 (talk) 21:37, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Qing and Yuan Dynasties debate
FYI, Qing and Yuan Dynasties debate was prodded for deletion by someone. 65.94.253.16 (talk) 05:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Assessing railway stations in China
I am planning an AWB run to assess for this project approximately 140 Stub-class articles about railway stations in China created by in March (see contributions history for full list). I will add the following to each talk page:

or

Before I proceed, I want to check with the members of this project to confirm that an importance rating of 'Low' (based on WikiProject China/Assessment) is appropriate. Thank you, -- Black Falcon (talk) 00:54, 9 April 2010 (UTC)


 * As there were no objections, I carried out the tagging as indicated above. -- Black Falcon (talk) 19:52, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Missing topics related to Chinese history
I've updated my page of missing topics related to Chinese history - Skysmith (talk) 10:07, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Some of those already exist - just that you are using Wade-Giles romanization instead of Pinyin. Colipon+ (Talk) 12:13, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * That seems to be a mixed list. "Sanxingcun" is obviously Pinyin. And some are neither, such as "Chäi'lin". I also find it a bit strange that this list has links to all sorts of other encyclopedias, but no interwiki links. How about adding a link at least to the Chinese Wikipedia, with characters in the format zh:條目 ? (Using fantizi in this case since it's about history, but it shouldn't matter.) &mdash; Sebastian 02:12, 13 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, the romanizations are mixed because I've collected the names from various sources of various ages (and one preferred older for their own peculiar reasons). Sorry for the inconvenience. If you find a different transliteration, you can create a redirect. As for interwiki links, the list is mainly concerned about what appears to be missing in the English Wikipedia. - Skysmith (talk) 09:53, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Chinese decimals
FYI, there is a discussion at WP:MATH concerning "chinese decimals". see the project talk page. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:31, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Chinese character redirects being speedily deleted
See Redirects for discussion/Log/2010 April 15

70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:00, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Chinese armies (pre-1911)
There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history which members of this project may be interested in. Nev1 (talk) 22:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Chinese name of "CAL Park" (China Airlines HQ)
China Airlines recently opened "CAL Park," its new corporate headquarters. However "CAL Park" is its English name. I'm trying to figure out what the Chinese name of the complex is.

I have looked at the English articles, but I'm trying to figure out what the name of the HQ is from the company website. Would anybody mind helping me find the Chinese name? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 10:39, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I was able to find the Chinese name of CAL Park, and since all of its characters only have one reading, I got those as well. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:21, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Opium War
FYI, has been proposed to be repurposed, see Talk:Opium War

70.29.208.247 (talk) 23:24, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Photo request - new China Airlines headquarters
I want to submit a photo request for the new China Airlines headquarters in Dayuan Township (NO.1, HangZhan S. Rd., Dayuan Township, Taoyuan County 33758, Taiwan(R.O.C).) - It opened on March 26 WhisperToMe (talk) 12:30, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings
2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings is up for renaming again at WP:RM, see the talk page Talk:2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings

70.29.208.247 (talk) 20:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Chinese Taipei baseball team
FYI, Chinese Taipei baseball team has been requested to be renamed at WP:RM, see Talk:Chinese Taipei baseball team

70.29.208.247 (talk) 05:15, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

台湾省, 臺灣省, 台灣省
FYI,,  ,  have come up at WP:RFD at Redirects for discussion/Log/2010 April 28

70.29.208.247 (talk) 04:56, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Zh-tw
FYI, has come up on WP:RFD for retargetting.

70.29.208.247 (talk) 04:59, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Cantonese (Yue)
FYI, there is again, an RFC on the naming of the article, see Talk:Cantonese (Yue)

70.29.208.247 (talk) 08:37, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Battle to the Southwest of Xiakou
FYI, Battle to the Southwest of Xiakou has been prodded for deletion by someone.

70.29.208.247 (talk) 12:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

People from X
Renewing the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_China/Archive/January_2010, I cannot believe all of these changes eventually went through with the work of one single user. I am too tired to fight it myself, any support? I argue that people should not be identified according to the prefecture-level city they were born, but should be identified with the province. I offered several points to contend that the current categorizing system is terribly flawed, but was unable to gather a third opinion. Colipon+ (Talk) 18:41, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What was the initial reason for switching from a Province-based system to a prefecture-based one? --  李博杰   | —Talk contribs email 02:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Shanghai
Hi editors of WikiProject China, please give your input on the talk page Talk:Shanghai. There is a conflict over the way how Shanghai would be described in the lead. User:BsBsBs's edit version would reduce the introduction to Shanghai to "Shanghai is the third largest of the four direct-controlled municipalities of the PRC", and that's it. I felt that the statistics of Shanghai's city proper and metropolitan population should be reflected in the lead as well, as Shanghai is commonly described as China's largest city and one of the world's largest metropolises, and User:BsBsBs's edits would be way to simple to describe the situation. --TheLeopard (talk) 03:58, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * This matter has been resolved. --BsBsBs (talk) 18:06, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Western names in Chinese
please look here and express your opinion about Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Western names in Chinese as there's no such info on western websites and there are many people curious about "what's Jane/ Bill/ Robert/ my name in Chinese" here i came with the decision of creating such list which will naturally be enlarged, improved and developed. However it might be in the contradiction with general Wiki rules. As you manage Portal:China -- the final decision whether such thing is needed and if yes, what necessary changes should be made are highly appreciated from you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.233.129.184 (talk) 02:10, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not Wiktionary. Some of this stuff should be on Wiktionary, if they would take it. Otherwise, the information should be in an appendix section on the article themselves, or as an interlang link. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 04:07, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons
The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 35,715 as of May 1. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at WikiProject China/Unreferenced BLPs. Currently you have approximately 417 articles to be referenced. Other project lists can be found at User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects/Templates and User:DASHBot/Wikiprojects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 16:46, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Template:Vietnamese
FYI, Vietnamese has been nominated for deletion. This is the Vietnamese language equivalent to the Chinese language template Chinese. As such it handles Han Tu (Chinese characters) and Chu Nom (Chinese-derived Vietnamese characters), so you may like to know.

70.29.208.247 (talk) 03:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

July 2009 Ürümqi riots is at FAC
Anyone interested is welcome to leave comments, suggestions, or opinions here. Thanks, r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Names of Chinese scripts xingshu (行書) and caoshu (草書)
Please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Writing_systems. 174.23.200.111 (talk) 05:33, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

/ currently redirects to a card game. Perhaps it should be turned into a real Three Kingdoms article (real portal)?

This discussion is occurring at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Three_Kingdoms. Please respond there. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 07:24, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Hirohito
FYI, the naming of Hirohito is up for debate again, see Talk:Hirohito. As Hirohito was the Sovereign of Taiwan, head of state dejure, for the period ending at VJ-day, this may be of interest to you. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 06:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Death of the proper nouns
It has been noticed especially amongst the China/Taiwan/HK articles that there is a gradual movement AWAY from using proper nouns for names which ought in media contexts be denoted with capital letters. Examples include Simplified Chinese --> simplified Chinese; Mainland China --> mainland China; now even cantopop and mandopop. There are many many other examples. What is the rationale behind this wholesale change? In news media this would have been considered patently bad grammar. DORC (talk) 08:41, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Russians in China proposed move
Russians in China has been proposed to be retitled to Russian Chinese. If you have any comment on this matter, please discuss it at Talk:Russians in China, keeping in mind Article titles and similar guidelines. Thanks,--Andres rojas22 (talk) 17:04, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Russians in China
FYI, Russians in China has been proposed to be renamed to Russian Chinese, see Talk:Russians in China.

70.29.208.247 (talk) 20:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

A little help please...
Good day,

I was wondering if anyone could assist me with the correct Chinese romanization for the name 李宗城. He appears to have been a naval commander from Ming during the Japanese invasions of Korea (1592–1598), and in Korean those characters would be written as Lee Jongseong, but obviously they should be rendered in Chinese. Any other information about him, such as when he lived or sources about him, would be much appreciated.Waygugin (talk) 23:31, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Li Zongcheng _dk (talk) 23:51, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot, any help at all is appreciated.Waygugin (talk) 03:37, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It might be easier to look up if it were rendered in Wade-Giles. 70.29.208.247 (talk) 04:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Does this look right for Wade-Giles?: Li Tsungch'engWaygugin (talk) 12:15, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

1421: The Year China Discovered the World
FYI, 1421: The Year China Discovered the World has been controversially merged into Gavin Menzies. An RfC has been opened on the issue, see Talk:1421: The Year China Discovered the World

70.29.208.247 (talk) 03:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Notice: Chinese Indonesian rewrite project
Good day! This message is being cross-posted on WikiProjects which consider the article on Chinese Indonesians of moderately high importance. Earlier this year, I began a project to rewrite the article because there are glaring issues currently with the article that cannot be corrected with just a simple edit. The difficulty of this subject can be glimpsed at an archive of the article's talk page. I believe that I now have the sources necessary to complete the rest of my rewrite and am seeking help from other contributors in the following ways:


 * Review of available media: Determine photos, maps, graphics, etc. that will significantly contribute to the article. The recent donation from the Royal Tropical Institute has greatly increased the amount of material to work with.
 * Review of infobox: Determine whether it should include Indonesian, Chinese (and perhaps Dutch) equivalent names. Determine the appropriate image(s), with the option of selecting only one generic image or several notable figures. Determine how the population figure should be described, given the issues surrounding "accurate numbers".
 * Review of related material: Determine which related articles, external links, material in other projects (Commons, WikiSource, etc.), and portals should be included.

Though I do appreciate offers to help me in writing the article, I hope that you will find another way in which you can contribute at the moment. This is in the interest of avoiding conflict and hasten the writing process. Of course, in keeping with the policy on ownership, the article will be fully open to contribution once it has reached a mainspace-worthy version.

Please direct all comments regarding the project the special discussion page I have created. For other comments not directly related to the project, please use my talk page. Thank you. Arsonal (talk) 20:55, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Request for assistance
The subject Assyrian Church of the East is counted one of the 100 core topics to Christianity. However, in recently reviewing a bibliography of works about that subject, I find that around half of them are apparently only available in Chinese. The era when the group was prevalent in China was, however, one of the prime reasons for it being considered so important. If there are any editors who would be willing to perhaps expand the content in the Chinese wikipedia based on those sources, I would be willing to myself gather as much information as I can from the English language sources available to me, and possibly, between us, we might be able to make the content in both languages better. If there are any editors so interested, please feel free to contact me. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 21:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Gongshi?
On this page, Chinese scholar's rocks, it does not mention Gonshi. But on this page, Suiseki, it has a link to Gonshi which forwards to Chinese scholar's rocks. So I am confused if Gonshi is a specific scholar's rock or is it a general name for it? Thanks, Marasama (talk) 17:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like Gongshi is the Chinese name for these rocks. It's included in the transliteration table on the right on the article. _dk (talk) 23:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Charing Cross
Hi! 查寧閣圖書館 is given as the Chinese name for the Charing Cross library. I know the three last characters are "Tushuguan" (library) - But what is the reading of the first three characters? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:03, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Chaningge _dk (talk) 01:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * And for "ning" which tone of ning? (níng or nìng) WhisperToMe (talk) 12:34, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it's níng. Cheers. _dk (talk) 06:09, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! I added the Hanzi and Pinyin to City of Westminster and to Commons:File:CharingCrossLibraryLondon.JPG WhisperToMe (talk) 19:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Template:China portal
FYI, has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.210.155 (talk) 05:00, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Now replaced by . Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ (talk) 04:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Changes to dynasty infoboxes
An anonymous editor from a Chinese IP is making changes to various statistical data on Ming Dynasty, Tang Dynasty, and others. After initially reverting his changes, I've begun to assume good faith and now think he may be introducing numbers from an unspecified additional source. Someone more knowledgeable about the topic than I may want to take a peek. Dppowell (talk) 14:42, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Conflict of interest?
I suspect that the July 2009 Ürümqi riots was primarily written by an Ugyhur sympathizer who has only written it to raise awareness of their issues. He claims that "Uyghur groups claim that the escalation was caused by the police's use of excessive force." etc etc. Basically he is claiming the police to be brutal. Is this valid? If anybody spots any POV make it known. To the casual eye it seems a well written and neutral article but now I have been made aware of the political stance of the primary editor I'm seeing it from a different perspective and am intrigued as to why it was developed so much........ If anybody spots anything suspicious let it be know as I've lost trust in the primary writer of this article. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 17:10, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Would you care to name the editor you are implicating in this? I see you had a dispute with User:Seb az86556, but he is far from the only one who had a major hand in editing that article; if you look at the contributions history, he, Colipon, Ohconfucius, Benlisquare, Jim101, and myself were all major contributors, and we come from very different backgrounds. I also see that your main reason for suspecting foul play is that Seb and I spent more time developing this article than the Ürümqi article (a sentiment you expressed here and here, and that apparently that means we have some sort of agenda.... did it ever occur to you you that I'm just not good at, or interested in, writing articles about cities? (I won't speak for Seb, but that is the case for me.)
 * As for the POV of claims like "Uyghur groups claim that the escalation was caused by the police's use of excessive force", this statement (in various forms) is supported by no fewer than 5 references in the article, and specifically couched in language to make it clear that this is a claim made by specific political groups and not by us as writers. I don't see how it can get any more NPOV than that.
 * Finally, it would have been polite of you to notify the editors in question of this discussion. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 17:41, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Glad to hear that the article was not written by an Uyghur sympathizer. . But I couldn't agree more with your notion that "it would have been polite of you to notify the editors ". I'd appreciate the same from time to time... Lets not forget that I voted "support" for the Urumqi article. But what I saw happen over the Tibetan Museum which strongly implied to me a resentment of the Chinese and their propaganda by Seb, you can forgive me for suddenly being suspicious of him. The first work I saw that he did heavily was the Urumqi riots article. And I did say during the FAC how surprising it was that the article was developed so much when the Urumqi article itself is a lot poorer. Then that got me wondering why there was so much passion there in writing the article, as if it was done to identify the grievances facing the Ughyurs thats all.Everybody has a certain reason or motivation for writing an article. I just know that many people bring real world biases with them to wikipedia and implant it all over, I am very pleased to hear that neither you, Seb or the group that wrote the article do not bring their issues with them to wikipedia and try to make it neutral. Thanks for clearing that up. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 19:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean, you would appreciate being notified? Notified of what? You're the one who showed up here accusing editors of being nationalist POV-pushers or whatever, not me. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 19:58, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Seb plastered a POV tag over the Tibet Museum article an article I've written alone. He did not notify me to inform me of the the problem or even try to address the issue. If somebody has an issue with an article which was entirely written by me, I equally expect them to inform me about it, otherwise I take it as an insult. That is what I'm talking about. Dr. Blofeld      White cat 20:01, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If that is what you are upset about (someone messing with "your" article, or having the gall to BOLDly note a problem with it without asking you for permission first), I suggest you take it to Wikiquette alerts. The fact that you feel insulted is not an issue that warrants a COI investigation or any sort of intervention here. You have already admitted here that you aren't concerned about POV anymore, so I suggest you drop this or take it somewhere more appropriate. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 20:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Feeling insulted has nothing to do with it Rjanag. When I saw this and this in which he claims that the PRC are liars, it immediately appeared that he has a resentment for the PRC government. So I didn't invent "nationalist POV pusher" claims, I just became suspicious of him by his regard to the PRC in that article and cthe fatc he had gone to enromous lengths to help write the riots article and I considered that he might have some agenda on here. A valid concern I think, I'm glad you've proved it unfounded. Dr. Blofeld      White cat 20:10, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I think we all have one bias or another when it comes to editing articles on Wikipedia, what matters is whether or not different parties can hash out a consensus. I think, Dr. Blofeld, that you jumped to a conclusion too quickly. That article has been subject to POV-pushing from both sides, but generally speaking the users that Rjanag mentions above (including myself) have remained civil and we have discussed almost all changes and all substantive edits on that page. It was one of the most comprehensive article collaborations I have ever witnessed or taken part in on Wikipedia, and at no point during the process did I feel that anyone was being unreasonable. I reviewed Seb's comments on Tibetan Museum, and do not think that it outright warrants a COI investigation. Colipon+ (Talk) 23:02, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Well so long as any biases and political viewpoints are left out of articles. I agree, sometimes it is a good thing for a number of editors to work together on an article and ensure that it is neutral. Any takers for developing the Urumqi article? I'd be glad to help. If somebody here has access to a list of townships in Xinjiang or anywhere else in China please let me know. I began a Townships of China series. So far I've only started this rather empty List of townships of Xinjiang. Eventually I want pages for each Chinese province and a full list of townships. Could somebody help me? Eventually it would be nice to start them all like Anningqu. Dr. Blofeld      White cat 09:11, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * So what are you here for? To complain about evil POV users infiltrating the encyclopedia, to complain about someone daring to insult you by tagging your article, or to ask for volunteers for your project? r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 17:23, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm actually asking you to find me some sources so I can improve coverage of Xinijang on here. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 21:53, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Portal:China
FYI, someone replaced the China image with the PRC flag, in all usages of Portal:China's portal template. This is a different portal from Portal:People's Republic of China.

76.66.193.224 (talk) 00:47, 27 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and changed it back. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 02:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

image:Hunan-map-en.gif
FYI, file:Hunan-map-en.gif has been nominated for deletion. 76.66.193.224 (talk) 05:22, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Yue Chinese / Cantonese
FYI, Yue Chinese is up for renaming, this is the article on the Cantonese language. See Talk:Yue Chinese.

76.66.193.224 (talk) 03:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Imjin war
The Imjin war topic have largely been done with little particapation from the Chinese side, this is despite the fact that the Ming dynasty made huge contribution to the war effort, and that the vast majority of first hand source are widely avalible in China / Taiwan in Chinese (including the Korean sources). it is really a travesity that the Japanese contributor have probably done more digging up harder to find first hand source to the article then the Chinese side taking a look at much easier to access source on their side.

I have already added a large section to the main article and some of the related stubbs, but this is way too much work for one person. If your a decent historian on the subject please help out.

(RollingWave (talk) 07:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC))

Jiangxi map
We're having an argument at Jiangxi over which map to use. I like the proposed global POV, actually, but it looks like there's an established consensus with our Chinese province maps, since all other articles are stable with the same national format. Maybe s.o. here has an opinion to share? — kwami (talk) 19:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject East Asia
FYI, there is a proposal for a WikiProject on East Asia, see WikiProject Council/Proposals/East Asia

76.66.193.224 (talk) 04:57, 6 June 2010 (UTC)


 * WP:WikiProject East Asia has now been started. 76.66.203.138 (talk) 05:08, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Help desk
Does this project have a help desk? -Stevertigo (w | t | e) 17:23, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

User kwami continues to terrorize the Linguistics scene
I thought earlier that I could mend fences with this user, but he went on a spree again today to move a series of articles from "X" to "X dialect". Articles that fell victim to this included "Shanghainese dialect" and "Taishanese dialect", neither of which is appropriate. This time, however, it appears as though it wasn't only Chinese articles - but articles from quite a few different languages. All of this achieved with no consensus, nor attempts at initiating discussion. One day he is going to anger enough people that his administrator-ship is removed. Absolutely ridiculous. Colipon+ (Talk) 00:02, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Patience, my friend. Nothing on Wikipedia ever remains static.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 13:04, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Someone needs to report him to the Bureacrats. 70.29.212.131 (talk) 05:04, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Common mistake on Chinese labour law
I think there’s a misunderstanding about the 2008 Labour Contract Law of the People's Republic of China. Accurately it’s not a new labour law or a new labour contract law. The effective labour law of PRC is still the 1995 Labour Law of People’s Republic of China. That new law which came into effect in 2008 is named Labour Contract Law. This law is secondary to that 1995 labour law and concentrates on labour contracts. Chinese media widely declare it as a new labour law but it’s not precise. It’s a very confusing term even for the Chinese. Therefore, as there’s no old labour contract law, and as there’s no new labour law accurately, some words like “new labour contract law” or “new labour law”should be avoided. For example, in the page “Labor Contract Law of the People's Republic of China”, “A new labour contract law …” should be mended. Besides, though in the page “Labour law” these two laws are separate, both of their links direct to “Labor Contract Law of the People's Republic of China”. I suggest that “Labour Law of People's Republic of China” shall no longer be redirected to labour contract law page. An independent “labour law of PRC” page should be founded instead. By the way, “Law of the People's Republic of China on Employment Contracts” is also used to describe that labour contract law. I don’t know whether this is an appropriate translation, but as it directs to labour contract law page, shall it be mended accordingly?--Certiffon (talk) 07:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I’m sorry that it’s so long. I’m a newcomer and I think it appropriate to make suggestions here first. Besides, I'm still trying to know how to write on Wiki.--Certiffon (talk) 07:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, everybody (including my lawyer) calls it the "new law." What is more important than parsing words is that major errors are to be fixed. The article states "According to the new 98-article-long "Labor Contract Law", employees of at least 10 years standing are entitled to contracts that protect them from being dismissed without cause." Wrong. Every employee is entitled to a contract. If I don't give an employee a contract, and I keep him or her for more than a year, permanent hire. There is more. Someone needs to read the law before writing BsBsBs (talk) 19:29, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course it's a new law. But the question is whether it should be called a new labour contract law. A new labour contract law would imply that there's an old labour contract law, which is not the case. The media and most people call it the new labour law, but this statement is very confusing. The Labour Law of PRC drafted in the last century is still in effect. These two laws are not distinguished here.--Certiffon (talk) 05:30, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

"New" does not automatically imply existence of "old." You can "get a new baby" - it can be your first, or not. If I "buy a new car," it doesn't automatically mean that it replaced an "old" car in my garage. Come to think of it, the new car could be used, i.e. pre-owned. "New" is a vague concept in the English language, and often simply implies some kind of change, somewhere. There can be a new law without a predecessor, or a new law that replaces or amends the old. As I said, instead of splitting hairs (and creating edit wars) over "new," our energies are better used to improve the quality of the article. It needs a lot of work. This article is important, because many people outside of China are convinced that Chinese workers have no rights and do slave labor. Which couldn't be farther from the truth. -- BsBsBs (talk) 05:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * But it's an obvious mistake that both "Labour Law of PRC" and "Law of PRC on Employment Contracts" are directed to the page of "Labour Contract Law of PRC". "Labour Law of PRC" and "Law of PRC on Employment Contracts" are different laws without doubt.--Certiffon (talk) 10:03, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * And let me make it clear. The following sentence is excerpted from that page:"compared to the old contract law issued in 1994, the new law is supposed to provide greater job security." So I think it's OK to say that this "new" comes out of comparison. Well, not every "new" in that page needs correction of course, but I think an inspection is necessary.--Certiffon (talk) 10:46, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Suggestion: Write an article about the 1995 Labour Law of the People's Republic of China. Once that article exists, we can put a link into Labor Contract Law of the People's Republic of China and write a proper disambiguation page and clean up the redirects. I can help you with the article if you are new to Wikipedia. Being an employer in Beijing, I am familiar with the "new" labor contract law (I have a contract in my computer, just need to insert name and terms ...). I am not familiar with the 1995 law. Before the labor contract law of 2008 came into effect (in a big hurry), nobody bothered with rules. Now we have to. If you are a Chinese labor law expert, I suggest we clean up the 2008 contract law article also, it has various mistakes, including the one you just mentioned. -- BsBsBs (talk) 10:51, 13 June 2010 (UTC)


 * If anyone is interested... also take a look at 2010 China Labour unrest. Colipon+ (Talk) 13:53, 13 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I think events concerning Foxconn need additional attention.--Certiffon (talk) 13:48, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * There is a Foxconn article for that and an article about Labor relations in the People's Republic of China. We need to watch out for recentism. 2010 China Labour unrest is superfluous. Editors should indeed visit this article, it's pretty bad. -- BsBsBs (talk) 15:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Though I'm not an expert, I think we can clean up some obvious mistakes in it. Besides, there's a page of China Employment Law which is suggested to be merged with Labor contract law in the People's Republic of China. I don't know what to start with.--Certiffon (talk) 13:48, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


 * China Employment Law should be abandoned. It's not an article. It simply cites the text of the law. I will recommend it for deletion. -- BsBsBs (talk) 15:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Writing an encyclopedic article is really hard work. The first draft of Labour Law of the People's Republic of China has been submitted for inspection. I'm still working on it for its poorness of references. I hope it can be improved later. Besides, it really needs expansion.--Certiffon (talk) 07:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Sure is:) But it's already getting better. Congrats. Try to work out what's essential to a law. There usually is some core concept. I'd say, the core of the 2008 contract law was to give the worker more protection from getting fired. I'd also say that the 2008 law resembles the workplace protection laws of European states, notably Germany. That always surprises outsiders. Sorry, I'm not at home with the old law. -- BsBsBs (talk) 19:52, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Being a law drafted in the last century, the 1995 Labour Law is relatively out of attention, compared with Labour Contract Law. Now it lies in the shadow of the new law. It's difficult to find references for it, including those for its core concept.--Certiffon (talk) 03:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

China Employment Law has been successfully deleted after a WP:PROD. I added a redirect to Labor Contract Law of the People's Republic of China to keep the links intact. -- BsBsBs (talk) 15:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

July 2006 in Macau
FYI, July 2006 in Macau has been prodded for deletion. This appears to be a portal page in the wrong namespace. 70.29.212.131 (talk) 03:56, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Category:Disambiguation pages with Chinese character titles
FYI, has been nominated for deletion. 70.29.212.131 (talk) 04:24, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Question on reference desk
Perhaps there is someone on here who has access to the book. See the question here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language#Help_in_locating_French_book

--Ghostexorcist (talk) 04:22, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

user:Article editor
Can someone look over ? This editor created a bunch of pinyin redirects to Korean locations. I suspect some of them might actually mean something else in Chinese... 76.66.195.196 (talk) 06:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

List of Chinese administrative divisions by population
List of Chinese administrative divisions by population has undergone some urban renewal and is now properly referenced. The assistance of editors in bringing the other articles in that group up to standard would be very much appreciated. It's drudge work, bot someone has to do it ... -- BsBsBs (talk) 08:50, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

China photo requests
Hi! I have some China-related photo requests: WhisperToMe (talk) 05:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Air China - Beijing Tianzhu Airport Development Zone
 * China Airlines headquarters - Taiwan Taoyuan Airport
 * China Eastern Airlines headquarters - Shanghai Hongqiao International Airport
 * China Southern Airlines headquarters - Guangzhou
 * Alright, this Panoramio image: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/34139200 - this seems to be the Air China HQ. How do I contact this user and ask him for permission to use this image? WhisperToMe (talk) 06:15, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Lists nominated for deletion
FYI and  have been sent for deletion. 76.66.195.196 (talk) 06:17, 29 June 2010 (UTC)