Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christian Metal/Archive 1

Symphony in peril?
Why was symphony in peril taken off the to be created list dont give me "notibilty' cause they have plenty of it

Aletheian article
Just to notify everyone else on this project - I'm starting to assemble the Aletheian article. If anyone has anything to contribute, contribute away. You're welcome to help out. --hXc ryan-- 19:08, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The article is up. --hXc ryan-- 19:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding them, I made a few minor additions to it.--E tac 05:50, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Great to see this band getting recognized finally. I remember at the 2001 Cornerstone Festival they played (then as Crutch) on the "Impromptu Stage" during the Tooth & Nail day and had a larger audience than any of the official Tooth & Nail stages, so they were shut down because of it. glocks out 22:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Steve Rowe
I started the Steve Rowe article, if anyone has any input or valuable information to add please do so. --E tac 06:56, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Christ core
I want to bring this to your attention: Found an article today, Christ core, which probably needs to be merged and redirected to Christian Metal. Dan, the CowMan 17:22, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Most of it should probably be merged with Christian hardcore.--E tac 22:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow how dumb of me. I really shouldn't be editing when I'm in need of that much sleep. Dan, the CowMan 03:50, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Lance King reference
Hey guys, I am 100% new to wiki editing, so I'm just starting to learn.

The page had Lance King listed with Pyramaze, but he's actually no longer with them. Avian is his main band now. I made that change, but I can't figure out how to make the internal link go directly to the Avian Wikipedia page @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avian_%28band%29. By default, it goes to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avian.

It looks like I could get it to work if I changed the coding maybe to Avian (band), but that would look goofy in the text.

Help? --SeaStormMetal 23:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You're going to want to do what's called a piped link (see WP:PIPE for a full explanation). In the code, it will look like Avian, but it will display as Avian.  Welcome to Wikipedia!  --Lim e tom 00:02, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Awesome! Thanks for the explanatory link.  It's all fixed up now. --SeaStormMetal 07:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Dale Thompson
Does anyone know if Dale Thompson's first name is really Philip, a la his MySpace? Tim Long 04:34, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. I suppose you could send him a message on their and see if he answers.--E tac 07:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)--E tac 07:27, 9 March 2007 (UTC)


 * His real name is Dale... hehe, I created that article by the way. Anyways, I've had only one opportunity to meet with those guys, it was really great... errr, but it was some time ago. I think the Phillip thing might be an inside joke or something... I dunno but I doubt it. IronCrow 22:09, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

new and want to help
hey, im another wikinoob, and want to help this project. (Skillet is my favorite band). i dont know what to do, could someone tell me what to do and i'll do it?

RanDawg 17:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

WOW Hits
Hi all. I wonder if you all could vote on the proposed deletion of the WOW Hits series. There's not much metal on them, but I know of at least 1 Stryper track on WOW Gold. Tim Long 06:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


 * WOW is not a series meant for Christian Metal, it's meant for more contemporary music, not in our span of editing. IronCrow 22:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

music videos
On the christian metal page, there is a link to the (uncreated) page Christian music Videos. I can start working on that, but just one question-is this all the christian music videos or just the metal ones? thanks --RanDawg 14:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it was meant to be for all, but it was deleted because it was uploaded with no content.--E tac 22:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I'll start that on my userpage and put it up when it nears completion. RanDawg 17:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Someone messing with the page!
Folks, I just noticed something disturbing.

If you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_metal, the page starts with:

Christian metal is a form of heavy metal music and its many subgenres with Christian lyrics and themes.

If you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Metal, the page starts with:

(Redirected from Christian Metal ) Christian metal is a parody of heavy metal music and its many subgenres with Christian lyrics and themes.

Someone's being very bad. I didn't make any changes, because I didn't know if there's a way to track who made changes (I didn't want to "destroy the evidence"). Also, it's more than just changing one word. They seem to have redirected to an entirely new page which is exactly the same except for the one change (changing 'form' to 'parody').

Not sure how to address the issue, but maybe a wiki veteran can jump on this one right away?

SeaStormMetal


 * The page was vandalised (see Vandalism) by the user Spenglerian, so far that is his only edit to wikipedia so I will assume it was just a single use account or something but if they keep at it I'll leave him a warning on his talk page and let an administrator know. The redirect part is suppoesd to be there so if somone types it in all caps it will redirect them to the article. You must have viewed one article before and one after the vandalism was reverted.--E tac 05:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent. Thanks for the quick work and the link explaining vandalism.  So I assume that the redirect page itself is legit (I'm guessing so that typing "Christian metal" and "Christian Metal" both get you to the same place) and he just vandalized one of them?  SeaStormMetal


 * Yeah thats correct, he just vandalised the main article.--E tac 06:06, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

List of Christian hardcore punk & metalcore bands
I was wondering if the List of Christian hardcore punk & metalcore bands would fall into the scope of this project. There are two categories (and I am unsure why these two were grouped together) and many of them duplicate from List of Christian metal bands. I didn't do a detailed comparison, because I don't think the two genres are even similar, but if the list falls into the scope, then someone (myself even) could work to make it more thorough. If there is a second to this, please put the tag onto the discussion page, and add it to the project page.

Jlricherson 04:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Reform the resistance
I'm going to start working the Reform the Resistance article. If anyone would like to help, it can be found here. I'll be able to start working on it seriously on Monday, but I might be able to work a little over the weekend. You can find my Justifide page here-- RanDawg 12:29, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Something very disturbing...
Somebody told me that the symbol beside this text:

"This article is within the scope of the Christian Metal WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Christian Metal and its related articles. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks."

Was a Satanistic salute. Is this true? If it is, I believe this should be removed immediatly and be replaced with something else. Maybe a Guitar?

It may have been a Satanistic salute in the past, but turned into a Metal/Skateboarding salute by artists and skateboarders trying to look 'cool'. If this is also true, I would recommend it be replaced. Thanks for your time, LoopyDood 05:42, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The "satanic salute" started in the Mediterranean as an insult (implying that someone's spouse is adulterous) - or to ward off the "Evil Eye". Depends on who you talk to. Some people overreacted in the early 80's (the same crowd who found backward masking all over the place) and us metal fans have never lived it down. Meh. 5minutes 13:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Well here is the article for Corna, looks like it has many uses besides being satanic. --E tac 18:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Ronnie James Dio is credited for having brought the sign to metal, and he never intended it as a satanic symbol. glocks out

Photos
I've been a photographer for Cornerstone Festival for a number of years and may have some band photos that could be useful. Let me know! Echobase 2000 15:59, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, any band on the List of Christian metal bands that don't have a photo could use one. Upload them to Wikimedia Commons with a suitable Creative Commons lisence.--Azure Shrieker 16:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Opeth
Does anyone know the religious convictions of Opeth? Some of the lyrics have some Christian themes in them. glocks out 22:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * musicOMH.com interview with Peter Lindgren quotes the band (now ex) guitarist saying in 2005 that Opeth members are atheists. --Janne72 12:44, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I doubt that. Many people in the metal industry try portray other bands in different ways. Look at the Megadeath/Metallica issues. Now, I don't think they are Christians, MAYBE a member or two is, but atheists? I have my doubts. IronCrow 22:07, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Is this project active?
Hi. Haven't seen too much activity here lately. Is anyone actually editing articles? The main article Christian metal seems to be a popular target for vandalism here, and not many people seem to notice that. Anyway, I was thinking about improving that page but more help would be appreciated. Particularly there should be something written about the 1980s bands like Whitecross, Neon Cross etc. And does anyone know what Christian progressive metal bands were notable in the 1990s? Someone could do a bit proof reading for some parts in the page too. --Azure Shrieker 06:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Hehe, it's active... kind of. I at least try to make sure the articles have non-biased and informative information. I haven't edited the Christian Metal page lately, but I'll be sure to help you out when I have the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by IronCrow (talk • contribs) 22:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, cool, I was a bit worried already.--Azure Shrieker 16:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Bands and notability
As a reminder for the project members, be sure to state the notability of the band when you're creating an article for it (check: Notability (music)). Some of the groups on the project page's "Band articles to be created" list haven't released more than few demos or eps and therefore are not notable enough for Wikipedia. Recently formed bands, or for example the fairly unknown unblack groups like Dormant of Elgibbor would be immediately deleted due to Wikipedia's Notability guideline policy. Should we remove some of those bands from that list? What would make a one ep group like Vaakevandring notable enough for Wikipedia? Does anyone have a reliable source that states that Vaakevandring has cult popularity or are they well-known enough to have a page? Their MySpace page states that a Dimmu Borgir member played in Vaakevandring but is that notable enough?--Azure Shrieker 16:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Altera Enigma
Do you reckon that Alterna Enigma would be notable enough to deserve a Wikipedia article? Because Jayson Sherlock(Paramaecium, Mortification and Horde) is in it and those bands are pretty darn notable. Jerry teps - Jez (talk) 11:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I checked the notability guidelines regarding this. It appears that Altera Enigma meets the criteria #6 ("Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such.") The founding band members Jeff Arwadi (Kekal) and Jason De Ron (Paramaecium) are also quite notable. The band has also been reviewed and interviewed in big sites like Powermetal.de (interview, review). Does this band have a history? I mean it's basically a side project; there's really no point to create a separate article if one has nothing to write about the band. According to Metal-Archives, Altera Enigma is an independent band and has released only one album. . So, for now it might be better to just write a section about Altera Enigma to either Kekal's or Paramaecium's articles, but that's just my 2 cents. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 14:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I think we should just put it on the original bands pages and when they release a second album or do something big/go on a notable tour make a Wiki article. Jerry' teps 04:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerry teps (talk • contribs)

Article assessment?
Should we start assessing the project's articles by quality just like, for example, Wikiproject Metal or Wikiproject CCM does? I mean, add a rating slot to the Christianmetal template and create an Assessment page with quality scales and everything? I would just like to know if other members would be interested in rating the articles. Also, should we create a Portal for Christian metal? Would someone like to design a new project page layout, just for change? --Azure Shrieker (talk) 00:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a great idea. Jerry  teps  03:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll also try and come up with a good page layout. Jerry  teps  04:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I've got some starter templates. Jerry teps  04:40, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I also made a page layout based on my user page. Jerry teps  07:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Vote on my layout ^^^ if you want that for the new page, I doubt you will but anyway here it is... Look at my page to see what it basically looks like User:Jerry_teps, Jerry  teps  07:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. I'll give my vote for that. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 12:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * If I get a few more votes i'll change it unless even more people veto it, I also put a message about upgrading the project on the main page. Jerry  teps  05:29, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, i'll also get onto putting importance on the template tomorrow. Jerry teps  05:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll put the new layout on the talk page so you can see it easily. Jerry teps  23:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to change the old tenplate to my new one, i'll get onto importance this afternoon unless people don't want an importance part. Jerry teps  00:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't mind it at all. Seems easier to read and keeps this stuff organized. Unless others find a plausable reason to object, I'm fine with this, at least for now. Though I am curious as to how we will rate articles specifically, I think the page's template/layout/whatever you want to call it is great either way. IronCrow (talk) 08:45, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not that difficult to rate articles specifically, although I'm not familiar with the importance scale. Anyway, we can mostly rate articles stub, start or b-Class without peer review (good article and featured article nomination). Stub should be quite clear: it's any article with only a few lines of text. Start-Class articles are longer but misses info and might lack sources. B-Class is the highest rating we can give ourselves. An article can be rated b-Class if it is quite long and comprehensive and contains fair amount of sources. For example the Christian metal article is pretty long and comprehensive and contains close to 100 sources but it has some grammatical errors and the text might not flow too well but still qualifies for b-Class. Then again articles such as Resurrection Band, Saviour Machine and Trouble are pretty well written even thought they might not contain any sources but still qualify for b-Class. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 11:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * The importance scale is how important an article is, like major bands would be mid and the christian metal article would be high, i'll just leave it out for now unless you want me to add it, it's not that important. Jerry  teps  03:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking that instead of my original idea we could do a page layout based on WP:HMM but in a different colour, if anyone has any idea what the colour should be and their opinion on it please share because your opinion is greatly appreciated. Jerry teps  08:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Should we move this discussion to WikiProject Christian Metal/Suggestions? Jerry teps  08:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, I mean this discussion is based on a suggestion isn't it? I was looking at that Wikiproject metal layout a while a go and its construction seemed pretty complicated. It does look nice but would constructing a layout like that take too much of the energy that should be invested in the articles? If not, go for it. As for the colour, how about "#D8EAE1" (try previewing that by replacing the backgroung colour code with it)? It's a bit calmer than the current green one on the project page. By the way, nice move on the peer review thing, hope it gives some constructive feedback :-).--Azure Shrieker (talk) 00:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ye i'm going to try and get it to featured article status. I have plently of time on my hands so I can make the project page better. Jerry  teps  01:50, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice colour BTW. Jerry  teps  01:52, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I added a little extra thing in the, it now has a little icon in the top right corner that mentions that the article is in the scope of wikiproject christian metal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerry teps (talk • contribs) 02:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I also made WP:CMM and WT:CMM redirect to thw wikiprojecy page. Jerry teps  10:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I made a new layout based on WP:HMM. Jerry teps  11:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The to-do list is on another page that you'll have to make. Jerry teps  11:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That looks great. On my behalf, feel free to replace the project page with that layout. The to-do list can be made by moving the current Tasks section there.--Azure Shrieker (talk) 17:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you think we should remove the members off the list who's accounts are not there? I dunno, but I don't think they are coming back. IronCrow (talk) 05:02, 23 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there a policy in Wikipedia on removing inactive project members or those without accounts? Anyway, they can always re-join the project if they do come back, which is not likely to happen. I guess we can remove them. --Azure Shrieker (talk) 10:14, 23 December 2007 (UTC)