Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christian music/Archive 4

Articles for deletion/Far and Away (band)
I'd appreciate the services (sorry, couldn't resist that) of some people who know Christian music better than I do at the above. It's an interesting case of possible false identity and socks. Peridon (talk) 21:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

3rd-party compilations in discographies
What is the consensus on including compilations like WOW and X Worship in discographies? See, for example, David Crowder Band. It seems unnecessary to me to note all the places that songs appear, as it clutters up the discography, and in this case, definitely isn't a collaborative effort (rather, the songs from various artists were just "borrowed" for the CD). Even if they were re-filed under "compilations", I would consider them to be of little added value to band articles. For now, I'm going to go ahead and clean it up, but I thought I'd mention it here just in case. --Fru1tbat (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The various WOW series albums out-sell almost everything else. See Christian Albums. The current WOW album has been the number one on five different occasions for a total of seven weeks. They almost always go Gold or Platinum. I think it's important to tie that in. they should be referenced, although they usually aren't in other articles either.
 * As a different discussion, it might be time to split out the discography into its own article. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Compilation projects with pre-recorded songs from various artists (like WOW) I believe should not be included in an artist's discography. I also agree that those are not really "collaborations" because they are not original recordings. --Musdan77 (talk) 21:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Request for input in discussion forum
Given the closely linked subjects of the various religion, mythology, and philosophy groups, it seems to me that we might benefit from having some sort of regular topical discussion forum to discuss the relevant content. I have put together the beginnings of an outline for such discussion at WikiProject Religion/2011 meeting, and would very much appreciate the input of any interested editors. I am thinking that it might run over two months, the first of which would be to bring forward and discuss the current state of the content, and the second for perhaps some more focused discussion on what, if any, specific efforts might be taken in the near future. Any and all input is more than welcome. John Carter (talk)

Automated message by Project Messenger Bot from John Carter at 15:44, 5 April 2011

Totally awesome project
I am very happy to be a member of this project. I pray that it will turn out great day by day.--CrossTempleJay (talk) 02:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for discussion
Christianity in heavy metal has been nominated for deletion. Comments are welcome at the nomination page Articles for deletion/Christianity in heavy metal. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Far and Away (band)
I'd appreciate the services (sorry, couldn't resist that) of some people who know Christian music better than I do at the above. It's an interesting case of possible false identity and socks. Peridon (talk) 21:46, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

3rd-party compilations in discographies
What is the consensus on including compilations like WOW and X Worship in discographies? See, for example, David Crowder Band. It seems unnecessary to me to note all the places that songs appear, as it clutters up the discography, and in this case, definitely isn't a collaborative effort (rather, the songs from various artists were just "borrowed" for the CD). Even if they were re-filed under "compilations", I would consider them to be of little added value to band articles. For now, I'm going to go ahead and clean it up, but I thought I'd mention it here just in case. --Fru1tbat (talk) 19:09, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
 * The various WOW series albums out-sell almost everything else. See Christian Albums. The current WOW album has been the number one on five different occasions for a total of seven weeks. They almost always go Gold or Platinum. I think it's important to tie that in. they should be referenced, although they usually aren't in other articles either.
 * As a different discussion, it might be time to split out the discography into its own article. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:06, 31 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Compilation projects with pre-recorded songs from various artists (like WOW) I believe should not be included in an artist's discography. I also agree that those are not really "collaborations" because they are not original recordings. --Musdan77 (talk) 21:34, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Totally awesome project
I am very happy to be a member of this project. I pray that it will turn out great day by day.--CrossTempleJay (talk) 02:01, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for discussion
Christianity in heavy metal has been nominated for deletion. Comments are welcome at the nomination page Articles for deletion/Christianity in heavy metal. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I Can Only Imagine GA review
I have nominated an article I have heavily worked on, "I Can Only Imagine", for 'good article' status. The article is ranked high-importance, and it has been up 38 days with no users reviewing it, so I was wondering of anyone here would be able to review it or at least aid in the process.  Toa   Nidhiki  05  00:20, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I made a few changes to the article, mostly formatting, especially WP:NUMERO, but I don't have time to review it, sorry. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That's fine, the more help the better - by the time this actually gets reviewed, it may be FA-status instead of GA, which could expedite things further. :)  Toa   Nidhiki  05  01:44, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's fair to have a member of a associated WikiProject review the file. It looks like a case of cronyism. I've seen some very shoddy GA reviews that end up getting the article failed later. 38 days isn't real bad - I know that I've waited longer. Don't worry, someone will do it eventually.  Royal broil  12:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Eh, alright... I just hope somebody does it soon.  Toa   Nidhiki  05  12:47, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

More Beautiful You
I want you all to go and take a look at this article, which give me all the feedback you want on this page or on my talk page, and that is because I will be working on some more of your projects album articles.HotHat (talk) 23:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Please remove Miranda Stone Wikipedia from your list of "Christian Music"
Hello all! It appears that a few years ago, someone decided to add Miranda Stone into this data base. I would like to know how that decision was made. I am Miranda Stone, and i would not like to be included. If anyone needs proof of my identity, i would be happy to email them. I have not been actively touring for many years now, being on retreat, which also means retreat from social media and computers in general. Last week i bought a computer, got on line, and happened to see that i have a wikipedia on my name. It appears that members of this community would like to highlight my religion. I would prefer to have privacy in the area of spiritual matters. Beliefs change. I am now working with fans of my music who would like to add information to this wikipedia stub to bring an actual "history" to the last 15 years of my career. I would be happy to dialogue about the "christian music" quote that's up there now, but for the record, i don't do "christian music." I never have and i never will. While it's true that i have played coffeehouses run by churches and the like, and festivals like Cornerstone, and while i may refer to spiritual themes, that makes my music about as "christian" as bands like Over the Rhine, and Sam Phillips. I think that quite clear. If you're going to make statements about a living person, it should be based on what's true and should have a few actual quotes or references from an artist themselves. On an issue like this, those quotes should at least be recent, not something pulled from 1997. I mean no disrespect, but what a person says concerning their own faith should matter, not what you think their faith is. I apologize in advance if i'm missing protocol in this post. Not entirely fluent with the computer thing. Thanks. Miranda Stone (Earthdress (talk) 22:46, 25 January 2012 (UTC))
 * First, there is no database so I'm not sure where she's listed. Special:WhatLinksHere/Miranda_Stone only lists her linked from a few articles, and none of them to any Christian music lists. So if you want the the subject's article changed, you'll have to do that at the article. However, the most likely change is that the Phantom Tollbooth interview will likely simply be referenced as historical and not removed entirely. As far as I can see, she has no link to the Christian music project though. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:50, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi there Walter! Thanks for writing back! If you go to the "Miranda Stone" Wikipedia, and look into the talk pages, you will see that the page has been placed under the support(?) of the wikiproject Christian music. I would like to see that removed. I do not know how, or if, i can do that myself, but it does not make sense to have this link there since the music it is "supporting" is not "christian music." Can you look into this for me? That would be helpful. I'm not sure who made the connection, but i believe it was done without checking to see if that connection was appropriate. miranda stone (Earthdress (talk) 20:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC))


 * That was added by Argolin. Maybe you should ask that person (User talk:Argolin). --Musdan77 (talk) 21:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

R&R Archives
I was wondering if anyone on here has access to Radio and Records Christian chart archives dating from 1995 to mid-2003 - I want to create a FL-class discography page for Third Day, but have no first-hand chart data and definitive charting dates. If I do not have the information, I will not be able to do this.  Toa   Nidhiki  05  17:30, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
 * archive.org has indexes of the website such as this. It looks like a lot of work but they frequently indexed it. Good luck!  Royal broil  02:07, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Casting Crowns discography FLC
Seeing as it is getting little input, I would like to note that I have nominated the Casting Crowns discography page for featured list. Any input is welcome.  Toa   Nidhiki  05  00:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Member list
Currently your membership roster utilizes a category. Most WikiProjects have their members sign a page, with addition of a userbox optional. There are a number of benefits of having a member page, one being automatic newsletter subscriptions. If there are no objections, I'll create a member page and designate userboxes as optional. – Lionel (talk) 11:00, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we can get some feedback one way or the other rather than assume tacit approval. Some editors may no longer be active while others may not come daily. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:51, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Let's give it another week. – Lionel (talk) 08:33, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Userboxes
Where can I find userboxes for userboxes for specific Christian music artists/bands/groups/record labels? Allen (talk) 01:41, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * You can start at Userboxes/Music and click from there.  Royal broil  01:12, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Revelation FA nomination
I have nominated Third Day's album Revelation for Featured Article. If you are interested in providing input, please go to the FAC page.  Toa   Nidhiki  05  00:48, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Mervyn_Warren
I have no doubt that this is important, but can we bring this to par? I'm more than willing to help bring this up to A or Featured.

the_undertow  talk  09:19, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Individually, not that important. The band was important though. Not sure how you would like us to help. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:43, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

MercyMe discographies nominated
I have nominated MercyMe albums discography and MercyMe singles discography at WP:FLC; any discussion or input is welcome.  Toa   Nidhiki  05  01:02, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

2012 WikiGrail Contest winner a member of this wikiproject
It gives me great pleasure to announce that the winner of the 2012 WikiGrail Contest is Toa Nidhiki05. Toa's contribution to Christianity-related articles was impressive: He represented WikiProject Christian music in the competition. Congratulations, Toa. – Lionel (talk) 09:19, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
 * 17 Good Articles
 * 1 Featured List
 * 9 DYKs

Revelation (Third Day album) FAC
Revelation, an album by Christian rock band Third Day, is up for a second FA nomination. The article is high-importance at this project. If passed, this would be the first CCM-related article to pass FAC. If you would like to comment or !vote, you can do so here. Thanks!  Toa   Nidhiki05  19:02, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

List of 2000s Christian Songs number ones
An article that falls under the scope of this project, List of 2000s Christian Songs number ones, has been nominated for featured list. Interested members can review and comment here.  Toa   Nidhiki05  21:56, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I have commented.  Royal broil  04:34, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Inactivity
It's disappointing this project is essentially inactive... Is there any way we can modernize it and attract new members and participation? One major issue I've noticed is that many album or song articles for tagged artists do not have WikiProject Christian Music tags. That might be a good place to start - tagging more articles and assessing them.  Toa   Nidhiki05  02:54, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree. It is disappointing that this project is practically inactive. Christian music is the only "music" I listen to (except for some orchestral classical and TV/movie soundtracks). I would like to use this project to further my interest in the Christian music "scene". Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 21:50, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Requested articles?
Where on this project can I add requests for new articles? I added some to the WikiProject Contemporary Christian music/Requests. However, due to the inactivity mentioned above, no one has made any attempt to fulfill the requests. To go along with the other discussion, we need to get this project up and running at full speed! Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 21:54, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

FAR notice
I have nominated Gregorian chant for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Dana boomer (talk) 14:26, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

FAC for Casting Crowns
An album under the scope of this project, Casting Crowns, is up for featured article currently. The article, if passed, would be the first featured article for a Christian rock album. Any members of this project are invited to comment on the article.  Toa   Nidhiki05  02:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Encyclopedic articles lists
I am in the process of trying to get together lists of articles included in print reference books related to the topics covered by the various WikiProjects and groups which relate to religion and giving the relevant WikiProjects a copy of those lists of articles. I have started one relating to the broad topic of "Christian music" at WikiProject Christian music/Encyclopedic articles list. I want everyone to note, however, that at least one of those sources seems to include material which is more or less specific to one song, album, or other limited period of a musical group's history under the name of the group itself, which might explain why it has articles on groups like U2 and Van Halen. However, I do think that the lists might be useful in helping establish articles on the various notable subjects related to this project and possibly providing another source for them. John Carter (talk) 20:35, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, but it would require that an article's originator have access to that source.  Royal broil  02:05, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. First, I think it is probably useful for any project to have an idea as to what the other directly relevant reference works on a topic cover, as an indicator regarding what content we here do and do not yet have. Also, honestly, if anyone really wants some of those articles, they are free to drop me an e-mail and I can send them to the editor directly. But I've found with a lot of the other religion-related projects that there are some fairly serious gaps in the encyclopedic nature of our own content as is, and having some idea what other topics are and aren't out there can be a bit of a help in that regard. John Carter (talk) 18:37, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Vital articles
There is a discussion occuring here regarding which music articles should be deemed vital to the Wikipedia project. Your input would be appreciated. GabeMc (talk&#124;contribs)  21:49, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Hijacking of page
Someone "highjacked" the Out of the Grey (album) page and totally twisted it to match some other band's page. Can someone take a look to see if this is right? Thanks. Allen (Morriswa) (talk) 03:06, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Reverted. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:45, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Music review websites
Okay, I want us to get it out and in the open once and for all about what websites are notable/noteworthy and reliable to take reviews from because this project has not had this discussion in quite some time, and Sources is what they came up with at that time. However, Christianity Today/ChristianityToday.com has virtually stopped doing reviews as of about the end of last year and Cornerstone quit doing if any reviews many years ago. Church Musician Today, The Church Musician, 7ball, True Tunes News are not available anymore. CCM Magazine and HM still do reviews but not many and not in every genre. When it comes to websites, Cross Rhythms and The Phantom Tollbooth do sporadic reviews at best, and are very untimely. We are basically left with just Jesus Freak Hideout off the list that does most reviews at a solid frequency. So, where exactly do we go from here. Oh, I know, which it is to consider the validity of the others in question, so lets get that started shall we. I put these in alphabetical order to show no favoritism.HotHat (talk) 07:50, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have placed Editorial team by each one that has one.HotHat (talk) 08:12, 6 July 2013 (UTC)


 * All About Worship Editorial team, they have reviews but many times without an actual rating.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Alpha Omega News Editorial team, they have graded reviews most of the time.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Alt Rock Live Editorial team, they have reviews and ratings out of ten like 8/10.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * ChristCore Editorial team, they have ratings out of five stars.03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Christian Broadcasting Network Editorial team, they are one of the biggest Christian entities, so I would reckon they have the CBN team that publishes the main website. By the way they have reviews out of five spins/stars.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Christian Manifesto Editorial team, they have reviews out of five stars.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Christian Music Review Editorial team, they do not have a page of staff but Jay Heilman was the editor but now Daniel Edgeman is the site admin. So, they have a structure in place. The do reviews out of five or five stars.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Christian Music Review Blog Editorial team, they have reviews out out five now, but used to be out of ten.HotHat (talk) 04:08, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Christian Music Zine Editorial team, they have a scoring system out of five.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Christian Rock 20 Editorial team, they have reviews out of five stars. This is the skeptical one for me to use.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * CM Addict Editorial team, they have reviews out of five and can be equated to five stars.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * CMSpin Editorial team, they have some ratings and they are usually out of ten. By the way, they do not have many current reviews.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Front Row Report Editorial team, they have some Christian album reviews and ratings are out of ten.HotHat (talk) 04:50, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Indie Vision Music Editorial team, they have ratings out of five stars.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Louder Than the Music Editorial team, they have two editors and do ratings out of five stars.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * New Release Tuesday Editorial team, they have ratings out of five stars, and try not to use the user name rather the real name associated with the account because they make it public on the staff page.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * OnCourse Editorial team, they have ratings out of five stars, and this needs a Wikipedia page about the magazine.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Worship Leader Editorial team, they have ratings out of five stars now, but the older ones do not come with ratings.HotHat (talk) 03:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)


 * The Worship Community No-Editorial team


 * I believe the consensus is that most review sites with editorial oversight are fine. The likes of Roughstock (which I write for) and Country Universe have passed without question in the past. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 07:56, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, I have been given heck by some editors over Christian websites that I use to write critical reception sections on here, so I want a community engagement to find out what I should and should not use.HotHat (talk) 08:01, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * So, I take it by what you write that most are usable on here for reviews.HotHat (talk) 08:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Eeyup. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 11:17, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Just a note for Wiki editors: Sites such as Jesus Freak Hideout and New Release Tuesday have both staff and user reviews. Make sure that only staff reviews are used. Also, when determining which sites to use, try to use those which have more of a reputation, i.e., heavily viewed or frequently cited.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 13:04, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Great work in compiling these sources HotHat. I would like to see links to support the editorial teams for these publications.
 * +1 for 3family6's comment. Returning to my first point, if the list of editorial teams would clearly show who the staff reviewers are then it would make this task easier.
 * I'd very much like to find CCM Magazine and Cornerstone reviews. They have reviews of older albums but very few ever made it to the Internet. We need more references of those albums. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:29, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, CCM Magazine is easy to find back them from January 2000 to April 2008, just take (http://ht.salemweb.net/ccm/ccmmagazine/pdf/200709.pdf) this link and go to the YYYYMM, for the issues you want and you'll find a treasure trove of them. As for Cornerstone no more on them.HotHat (talk) 03:45, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * If you want to look at one that I found Pages (Shane & Shane album). By the way, they use grades for the really older ones and switched over to five star ratings later. Furthermore, while they were shut down they put reviews on NRT.HotHat (talk) 03:47, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Stellar work HotHat! Thanks for the additional links.
 * I'm thinking CCM earlier than 2000. A lot of great album articles that could use refs from back then. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:29, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Don't forget their charts as well; they were the only real CCM single charts up until around 2000 or so.  Toa   Nidhiki05  10:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Great work, HotHat!-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 16:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, three things. First, while we're at it, let's include the Christian hip hop sites Rapzilla and DaSouth. Rapzilla is the premiere of Christian hip hop coverage, with Salem Publishing using them as a source, and both Rapzilla and DaSouth have editorial teams. Each uses a five star rating system. Rapzilla tends not to review anything that they consider under a three, and average their reviews among several staff members. There also are Sphere of Hip Hop and New H2O, which I'm not sure about. They both seem to have editorial teams, and they partner with DaSouth.com. Second, many of the sources listed by both this project and by HotHat belong to Salem Communications. All of the sources that belong to this company and deal with Christian music should be listed. Third, I will try to integrate all of these reliable sources onto the source list for this project, and put a link to that page on the Wikiproject Albums source and reviewer lists (which need to be merged, by the way).-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 01:11, 8 July 2013 (UTC) Ah, I forgot about these: For Christian metal, you have Metal for Jesus! and The Whipping Post (this one sometimes includes rock as well as non-Christian bands. Both of these websites are personal websites by Johannes Jonsson and Matt Morrow, respectively, but both authors have written for HM Magazine, and Johannes is, or at least was, quite active in the Finno-Scandinavian Christian metal scene, heading projects such as The Metal Bible, as well as receiving citations from at least one academic ([http://www.ep.liu.se/ecp/025/045/ecp072545.pdf here, pgs. 6,7] and [http://www.doria.fi/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10024/59443/MobergMarcus.pdf?sequence=2 here, pgs. 149, 203, 220, 222]). However, as these are personal sites, they are not reliable for BLP statements. Reviews and statements about bands are fine, but any info about the band members are not suitable. Also, articles should not rely on these sources alone, but include sources published by a third-party. This also means that other sources should take preference, but if the info cannot be gotten elsewhere (which happens often with the underground groups that Morrow deals with), they supply some excellent details. While I'm at it, Marcus Moberg, who I linked to above in support of Johannes Jonsson, did some phenomenal research of the Christian metal scene, so he would be good to include in this projects source list. There's also this PhD dissertation by Eric S. Strother. Finally, Mean Deviation by Jeff Wagner deals with progressive and experimental metal from all sorts of bands, including Christian ones. He has a fantastic section on Believer with valuable commentary on their innovation and contribution to prog metal. Sorry to throw all of this out there, but I figured we should get all of these sources out of the way at at once.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 01:49, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with all that you mentioned, so go ahead and update the list of Sources.HotHat (talk) 03:30, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

So one last thing, I have got to tell you all about a former reviewer Jay Wright formerly of Christian Music Review, and he was the lead reviewer, well he quit doing reviews about a year ago. But, I think we ought to consider adding Jay's Musik Blog to the list, so that we can utilize his older reviews. By the way, His resume is very good and conducive to using him as a reliable source for reviews.HotHat (talk) 03:59, 8 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Jay's Musik Blog should work as a self-published source. For Christian hip hop, Jesus Musik works as a self-published source (Houston Chronicle disclaims any oversight of it), as Sketch also writes for DaSouth.com (I also think he's written a few articles for AllHipHop).-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 01:25, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Further comment on Jay Wright: Many (and I mean MANY) of his reviews are reprinted in New Release Tuesday - those ARE reliable for BLP statements, as New Release Tuesday provides the editorial oversight in such cases.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 13:19, 12 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Who wants to sandbox these and integrate them with the others, eventually?HotHat (talk) 08:55, 12 July 2013 (UTC)


 * I'll do it, though it might take awhile. I'm thinking to restructure the list to look more like this.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 13:17, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed.HotHat (talk) 21:40, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and got it done with Music review sources, if you would like to edit go ahead and be my guest.HotHat (talk) 07:43, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Very nice! I made some edits to it, particularly to highlight self-published sources. I noticed that there is no Gospel category - is it possible for you to add one? I ask you since you researched which style each source deals with.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 13:05, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

Kellie Loder
The article about Christian musician Kellie Loder has an ongoing featured article candidacy here. Any constructive comments you would be willing to provide there would be greatly appreciated. Neelix (talk) 03:05, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Katy Hudson/Katy Perry
Could project members please look at the copy at Katy Hudson. I don't want my bias to be imposed on the article, but the wording is odd to my eyes. Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:52, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
 * This is an American album so date format definitely needs to be the format December 28, 2013. It was a Contemporary Christian album as that was her format at the time. I like the lead as is. Why doesn't the article refer to her as Hudson not Perry since that was her name at the time of the album release? Other than that, the article looks like GA quality to me.  Royal broil  01:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * She was going by her birth name at the time of the release. She has since switched to a stage name subsequently. Could a few editors read over the copy since the editor has stated that English is not a primary language. I found a few issues with wording. I'm sure that there are more. Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:27, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * The article clearly states that she's Perry now. But it's wrong to call her by her stage name Perry throughout the article when it was released under the real name Hudson. Except when the content is about what she did in the future (like tours). I didn't see awkward wording but having more eyes looking for awkward wording is helpful.  Royal broil  01:45, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Take a look now. I worked on it a bit.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 03:24, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Awkward wording: "Hudson utilized primarily Christian rock and Contemporary Christian music in the songs' composition" and "Perry exploring Christian rock and contemporary Christian music (CCM). Amongst what was described as an alternative direction were prominent influences of pop rock and soft rock." It's starting to look better now though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:40, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you all for fixing my errors. Though, an editor changed AllMusic to Allmusic, which is wrong, the actual name nowadays is AllMusic. Plus, can we remove the citation in the lead for the sales figures? Per WP:CITELEAD, I think we should, plus the information is supported in the Commercial performance section of the album, and contains a reference. Prism   △  12:05, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Is Magnificat a song?
There is a discussion at Talk:Magnificat about whether or not the Magnificat is a song as described in the Manual of Style, and as such should be in quote marks. The same question seems to apply to Benedictus, Nunc dimittis, Te Deum, and probably others. Opinions would be appreciated. Thank you. SchreiberBike talk 19:42, 18 January 2014 (UTC)


 * IMO, it is both a song and text. Considering there is written music (by dozens of composers), when one of these is being referred to it should obviously be italicized. When just the text is being referred to, it shouldn't be. Overall point is that in many cases, Magnificat should be in italics and I think that holds for any musical arrangement whose text is pulled out of the Bible or any other source. Ckruschke (talk) 17:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke

Two recent additions need some reviews
I encountered some controversial material in two articles over the past two days. The first was at Jesus Culture and some criticism levied at a song they performed by John F. MacArthur during his recent "Strange Fire" conference. The vitriol spewed by the initial editor after I removed the material made me think twice and I created a criticism section that I hope does justice to MacArthur's opinion without giving too great a platform for that opinion.

The other issue is related to a new editor's additions at Bizzle related to a recently released controversial song. The editor in question made extensive quotes at first and when I reverted the material in an attempt to maintain WP:NOV and WP:NOR I started getting messages from the editor. I attempted to advise the editor but seeing the result, I don't think I was particularly successful.

Both of these additions need eyes and reviewers, and I would rather have editors who are familiar with the field do that rather than call on others who may not be as familiar. This does not mean I expect the reviewers to take sides only that they may be able to offer a more balanced approach to editing, particularly of the second song.

Back to MacArthur and this conference for a second. He believes, along with many others, that the gifts of the Holy Spirit stopped either when the first apostles died or when the canon of scripture was closed or at least was completed. To them, all forms of charismaticism are un-Christian. That was the focus of the conference and they used this song, along with many other things, to prove that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 07:23, 1 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Walter - the content that is currently on the Bizzle site looks fine to me. It looks to evenly go over the "Same Love" issue and controversy. Seems like alot of words about the issue, specifically the long explanation about the song, but since the song was just released that is natural.Ckruschke (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke
 * Thanks. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:16, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Desperation Band albums
I just looked at the album articles related to Desperation Band. No references. They have reviews at http://jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/DesperationBand.asp and I'm sure there are others. I don't have time to determine which are notable and which aren't. Could someone take a look? Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:02, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Popular pages tool update
As of January, the popular pages tool has moved from the Toolserver to Wikimedia Tool Labs. The code has changed significantly from the Toolserver version, but users should notice few differences. Please take a moment to look over your project's list for any anomalies, such as pages that you expect to see that are missing or pages that seem to have more views than expected. Note that unlike other tools, this tool aggregates all views from redirects, which means it will typically have higher numbers. (For January 2014 specifically, 35 hours of data is missing from the WMF data, which was approximated from other dates. For most articles, this should yield a more accurate number. However, a few articles, like ones featured on the Main Page, may be off).

Web tools, to replace the ones at ~alexz/pop, will become available over the next few weeks at popularpages. All of the historical data (back to July 2009 for some projects) has been copied over. The tool to view historical data is currently partially available (assessment data and a few projects may not be available at the moment). The tool to add new projects to the bot's list is also available now (editing the configuration of current projects coming soon). Unlike the previous tool, all changes will be effective immediately. OAuth is used to authenticate users, allowing only regular users to make changes to prevent abuse. A visible history of configuration additions and changes is coming soon. Once tools become fully available, their toolserver versions will redirect to Labs.

If you have any questions, want to report any bugs, or there are any features you would like to see that aren't currently available on the Toolserver tools, see the updated FAQ or contact me on my talk page. Mr.Z-bot (talk) (for Mr.Z-man ) 04:59, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Christian Music At Wikimania 2014
Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 16:31, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Hillsong album notability
There are a number of albums linked from list of Hillsong albums that are clearly not notable. I started looking for RSes to support notability for a few of the albums and I PRODed them. I stopped checking after a while and just PRODed any that didn't clearly list notability. An editor has been de-PRODing them while linking to sources that don't support it. So if a few editors could look for sources and dePROD if you find any good ones. If it's gone to AfD, list what you've found. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:36, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for notifying us of this, a lot of those albums apparently charted, so most of them were dePRODed by to make sure that we aren't deleting anything notable. I've started looking through a lot of these noms myself.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 15:41, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * There were more than forty and some of those were tagged with notability, unreferenced or refimprove tags. Most of them are still not notable though. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:06, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

The articles on Hillsong's early albums have been very informative. Particularly for the albums that are out of print. I honestly think that they should be kept up as a reference. They've been very helpful to me. I am not the author of said articles. I did remove the notices on three of the articles, "Spirit And Truth", "Show Your Glory", and the United EP "One" as it stated that the articles would be removed within seven days. I think these deletion proposals should be discussed more before taking the articles down. Jair Crawford (talk) 17:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Their usefulness is not an issue. The informative value that they present is not a criteria. Their notability is. See above. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:07, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, if the articles do become deleted, the least we can do is make sure the information does not get lost as it's merged into a more general article, or whatever the result ends up being. I started a discussion on the talk page of the Notability page as well, as I am curious as to why notability is being considered more important than potential usefulness of the information. Also, I want to apologize if I ended up removing any notices prematurely. You can probably tell, but I'm pretty new to this editing thing. I've been a long time reader though. Jair Crawford (talk) 22:17, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure. You mean the track listings? That's possible. The images cannot be saved though.
 * You're in your right to remove the AfDs though. It makes the process more difficult though. If the AfDs are closed as delete, that's usually the end of it although an article could be recreated if new sources are found. If they're closed as keep, then that is usually the end of it, unless notability guidelines change. There has been some discussion about charting notability. Does appearing on the Billboard 200 mean an album is notable or should it be on the chart for two weeks? Thinks like that. However, the AfD could be closed as no consensus and then I could always just redirect it to the Hillsong article or a band article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:32, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Saving the track listings, and if possible the personnel information, would be great. Shame about the album art. Old and rare albums from otherwise popular artists have been a point of interest for me, which is why I find such information from articles like the "Show Your Glory" album to be so informative. The information is pretty accurate, but due to the nature of the album, most of the information would have to be from more personal sources rather than external articles. But that is probably better discussed on the Notability talk page. Thanks for the clarification on the AfDs I removed. Jair Crawford (talk) 22:53, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It would require using Discography list and I haven't looked at the template for a while. It supports the following parameters:
 * | Type          = "Studio/EP/Live/Compilation/...", see codes below
 * | Name          = "Name" or "Name" (album or EP/single)
 * | Other info    = added between parentheses after Name (album or EP)
 * | from Album    = ONLY FOR EP/SINGLE: added after Name
 * | Released      = "1992" or "11 February 1992
 * | Format        = "LP/CD/..."
 * | Label         = "Name" or "Name", comma if many
 * | Writer        = "Songwriter name" or "Songwriter name"
 * | Writers       = Use if there are multiple writers, comma if many
 * | Producer      = "Producer name" or "Producer name", comma if many
 * | Director      = "Director name" or "Director name" for music videos
 * | Chart position = "No. 1 U.S." or "No. 12 UK" or such
 * | Sales         = "3 million sold as of 2005" or such
 * | Certification = "Gold" or such
 * | Tracks        = " "One", "Two", "Three" ", etc.
 * | Bonus tracks  = "Four" (Japan edition)
 * | Singles       = " "Single", "Other Single" ", etc.
 * So songwriters would be covered, but not performers. Take a look at White Heart discography for a poor example of how it can be used. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:13, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for the info. I'll make sure to check it out. In the meantime, if you're interested in getting involved, I've started a discussion about notability in music on the music notability talk page. I would do a hyperlink, but I'm a newb and don't know how to put it in here. Also, I did vote for weak keep on some of the albums that are AfD'd. I hope I did that correctly. Jair Crawford (talk) 21:37, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Delete or keep
I'll start by apologizing if any albums that really are notable, based on current criteria, are deleted, but the nice thing is that there's an easy way to deal with those. First, create a draft copy in your user space. Second, be certain that there are a sufficient number of sources to confer notability on the subject are present. Third, ask for a review of the draft. The review can be done here or of the larger community. If it passes the review, we can move the article into main space.

However, if the article is kept based on weak sources, it makes it much more difficult to nominate for deletion in the future. Another nomination would either have to wait for a change in criteria or would have to allow a significant amount of time between nominations (I would complain if it were less than two years).

So if in doubt, vote delete and work on a new article. Better yet, nominate for weak delete and request the article be moved to your user space while you continue to research.

Again, sorry if notable albums are deleted. Many of the albums were created a long time ago and had no references and I couldn't find any for the first few. I made the mistake that they were all like that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I want to say, thank you for bringing these albums to the table. All of them needed a lot of work, even the notable ones.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 03:49, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome, and I would say especially the notable ones! I think, however, I’ll bring this sort of thing here first and tag the articles with a notability and some sort of references tag first. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:07, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Even the deletion discussion is good. It was the mass PRODs that caused a problem, as it was too many for people to respond to.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 14:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I won't do the mass PRODs again. Walter Görlitz (talk) 17:06, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Or only when I have a day free to research, as I did yesterday and this morning.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 17:16, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Coordinating schedules may not be that easy though.... Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The Ongoing Concept
Would someone care to discuss genres at The Ongoing Concept? Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:09, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Cross Rhythms
Just wanting to know more about how to cite their rating on Wikipedia?AdditionSubtraction (talk) 10:21, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:42, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Most places use stars, however they use black and white boxes.AdditionSubtraction (talk) 16:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

An editor created this template to use:  -- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 22:56, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to say thank you, for the assistance you provided.AdditionSubtraction (talk) 05:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome.-- &iquest;3fam  ily6  contribs 23:41, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

First American Contemporary Christian music radio station
Is it true that Los Angeles was the first market to have a station of this format, with KYMS 106.3? 173.51.123.97 (talk) 01:07, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject X is live!


Hello everyone!

You may have received a message from me earlier asking you to comment on my WikiProject X proposal. The good news is that WikiProject X is now live! In our first phase, we are focusing on research. At this time, we are looking for people to share their experiences with WikiProjects: good, bad, or neutral. We are also looking for WikiProjects that may be interested in trying out new tools and layouts that will make participating easier and projects easier to maintain. If you or your WikiProject are interested, check us out! Note that this is an opt-in program; no WikiProject will be required to change anything against its wishes. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thank you!

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Harej (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Entertaining Angels Maxi single
I recently tried to add some much needed info to the Wikipedia page for this album. I used the actual liner notes to give credit to the writers of the songs. I was unaware of how to source the info but it was spot on. The page was reverted back to its less informative state it was in before. Some of the songs on this CD have already been credited on a separate albums. Please let me know how I can post this information in the future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Southstander (talk • contribs) 02:23, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm the editor who reverted 's change. To answer your question, you would use Cite AV media notes to cite the information. However half the reason it was reverted was you changed "Entertaining Angels (Light Mix)" to "Entertaining Angels Davis/Furler/Joel (Light Mix)" when it should have been "Entertaining Angels (Light Mix)" Davis, Furler, Joel. Outside of the song title and without the slashes. Alternately, you could have added writing credits separately. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:45, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Just a quick follow up question, if half the reason was the formatting, and you knew the formatting why not correct the formatting rather then 86 my entire edit, then asked about the citation? It was an honest mistake ont part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Southstander (talk • contribs) 02:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I explained both when reverting but it's a good question. Mostly because I don't think providing writing credits is particularly useful and less so when it's for a compilation album like that. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:03, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

The Prayer Chain
An editor has added references and material to The Prayer Chain and another editor re-worked it and removed sections. I smell an edit war brewing so perhaps some group members could take a bit of time to review the edits and be peacemakers before one (or both) are blocked (as has happened to both). Matthew 5:9, etc. 208.81.212.222 (talk) 18:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Um, yes. The other editor did edit war and has gone past WP:3RR. I was not a peacemaker though. Anyone want to step in and assess the additions and my removal of content? Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:21, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Notability
@ and @ : Is Jon Micah Sumrall's, Faith & Family, notable enough for an album article, and inclusion with regard to this encyclopedias criteria? The album has been reviewed by 365 Days of Inspiring Media, CCM Magazine, Christian Review Magazine, Christian Music Review, Jesus Freak Hideout (twice), and Louder Than the Music. If it is notable, should his artist profile on here be created, as well?The Cross Bearer (talk) 03:26, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

@ and @ : Is Sarah Brusco's, The Woven Whisper, notable enough for an album article, and inclusion with regard to this encyclopedias criteria? The album has been reviewed by CCM Magazine, Christian Review Magazine, Cross Rhythms, and Indie Vision Music, and she has been interviewed by Breathecast and The Sound Opinion. If it is notable, should her artist profile on here be created, as well?The Cross Bearer (talk) 04:44, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

@ and @ : Is Among the Thirsty's, Who You Say I Am, notable enough for an album article, and inclusion with regard to this encyclopedias criteria? The album has been review by 365 Days of Inspiring Media, CCM Magazine, Christian Music Review, and Christian Review Magazine p. 58, also, they have been profiled by Cross Rhythms. If it is notable, should their artist profile be created, as well?The Cross Bearer (talk) 05:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)


 * If they have sufficient reviews and discussion to merit an album article, they have enough for an artist article. I'd rather see more weight added than short reviews, but do use your judgment. It has been better than mine in the past. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:39, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

RfC on List of Christian metal artists
Hi, I've started an RfC on the List of Christian metal artists. Any interested editors may comment here.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 03:30, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Misty Edwards
& Her article was erroneously deleted from this encyclopedia, AfD, and should be reinstated. See, Cross Rhythms (eight reviews), AllMusic (Biography), 13 Billboard magazine chartings, CBN interview, Relevant magazine interview, All about Worship audio interview, New Release Today "Behind the Song" feature, and CCM Magazine has reviewed her last two albums and probably more. She (Her article) is 100 percent notable, per GNG and MUSICBIO guidelines and policies, and this makes the deletion rather absurd, with regards to the article in question. If you kept the album article, created by myself, then couldn't you all see her profile article was notable? These are all reliable sources that I presented, and you may want to look at CCM sources to better familiarize yourselves with the publications, who cover Christian music.The Cross Bearer (talk) 08:32, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I recommend posting the above at Deletion review, which is an appropriate forum for this type of request as per WP:DRVPURPOSE #3, "if significant new information has come to light since a deletion that would justify recreating the deleted page". An idea is to request userfication of the article to your userspace to work on the article. North America1000 18:07, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
 * I just want to thank you for the advice and council.The Cross Bearer (talk) 01:07, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I would only add that it is quite possible to find discussions of an album without finding discussions of an artist, and that would be a determining factor in "notability." I believe a fair amount of the material you mention above was considered in the AfD, but those in favor of deletion felt that the articles/sources were not coverage of the author. I.e. it has nothing to do with the author (you), nor the field (Christian music), but rather whether or not an artist is discussed. (It's quite possible that the review will overturn the deletion, but "X exists, so Y must" isn't going to be compelling. I would advise arguing solely on the depth of the coverage, its independence, and its significance.) Hithladaeus (talk) 01:38, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Musicians make music that gets covered and bought, and this is what makes them notable, at the end of the day. The reviews provide coverage of her music and the chartings show commercial viability, making her profile article well beyond just scratching the surface of notability, plus, The Christian Post, (has a lengthy interview), on her making her biographical article even more notable. You all evidently did not take into consideration, NEXIST, when you all were discussing the merits of the article in question, for the fact of "Notability is based on the existence of sources, not solely the state of sourcing in an article". I can recognize the article may not have been sourced well or sufficiently, however you all did not do your due diligence to research the topic, like I presented here and above. For your information, Cross Rhythms is the biggest Christian music/radio/former magazine/currently online publication in the United Kingdom, and they have reviewed eight of her albums, where I would call it notability alone!The Cross Bearer (talk) 04:10, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * At the time of the AFD, the article didn't have any indication of why she is notable. It should have included all of her Billboard chart appearances, then the discussion shouldn't have went to deletion. For notability of musicians, I make sure that they meet WP:MUSIC (hopefully by several points) before I make decisions.  Royal broil  05:05, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

The article is now back, Misty Edwards, for your viewing and reading pleasure.The Cross Bearer (talk) 09:06, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Misty Edwards is clearly notable. The article should be recreated.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 02:36, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Well, I wish you the best of luck, where you find my luck busted, right here, in this discussion.The Cross Bearer (talk) 04:23, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The article looks to be more than notable, but in the short time that the article was back, it has been deleted again. Maybe try reporting the user? Or is this an admin who is deleting the page? ilovechristianmusic   (Talk to Me!)  12:07, 4 July 2015 (UTC)


 * , : Misty Edwards, or someone acting on her behalf, filed an OTRS ticket requesting that she not have an article on Wikipedia. While the coverage of her in Christian media does provide notability, there is nothing in the coverage that indicates that she is of such importance that her own concerns about being included on this encyclopedia should be over-ridden.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 17:07, 5 July 2015 (UTC)


 * I will give her what she wants, and quit working on anything pertaining to her or her music, for that matter. She wants her anonymity and privacy, I'll relent to her request, and she is now totally off of my radar screen, for the foreseeable future. God Bless, Misty Edwards, and have a good life!The Cross Bearer (talk) 03:26, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Nonsense. I've seen similar requests. If we can prove WP:N, it's not up to a subject whether they have an article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:11, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Worship artists
I want to know, if you all think each one of these worship artists are notable for inclusion on Wikipedia?The Cross Bearer (talk) 08:44, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Leigh Barnard?
 * ❌ - I could not find any coverage whatsoever. There may be some print coverage, but I doubt it.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 16:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ - I could not find any coverage whatsoever. There may be some print coverage, but I doubt it.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 16:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Dave Bilbrough?
 * ✅ Lots of routine coverage, and some significant coverage by Louder than the Music, The Christian Post, and CRE Online. Also, he's mentioned as a leader of 90s CCM:, , and . Also a brief mention here, and discussed at length in this book, though the book may be somewhat affiliated with him as I think it was published as part of a Christian movement he was in. Because of these online mentions, I'm thinking that there is a lot of print coverage pre-dating the Internet age.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 16:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Lots of routine coverage, and some significant coverage by Louder than the Music, The Christian Post, and CRE Online. Also, he's mentioned as a leader of 90s CCM:, , and . Also a brief mention here, and discussed at length in this book, though the book may be somewhat affiliated with him as I think it was published as part of a Christian movement he was in. Because of these online mentions, I'm thinking that there is a lot of print coverage pre-dating the Internet age.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 16:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Teri Bryant?
 * This is actually Terl Bryant, who absolutely is notable.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This is actually Terl Bryant, who absolutely is notable.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Captain Alan & the Captains Crew
 * ❌ Absolutely nothing online, and it's not looking like there will be any print coverage either.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ Absolutely nothing online, and it's not looking like there will be any print coverage either.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Dave Cooke?
 * A prolific songwriter and backing instrumentalist, as evidenced by AllMusic. Most notable, he worked extensively with Cliff Richards. There is some significant coverage of Cooke in here and here, and there might be additional print coverage in various magazines.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * A prolific songwriter and backing instrumentalist, as evidenced by AllMusic. Most notable, he worked extensively with Cliff Richards. There is some significant coverage of Cooke in here and here, and there might be additional print coverage in various magazines.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Bill Drake?
 * Maybe. I can't find much online, just a passing mention in this article that calls him "well-known" and some routine coverage by CBN. There may be coverage in print magazines.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I can't find much online, just a passing mention in this article that calls him "well-known" and some routine coverage by CBN. There may be coverage in print magazines.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * David Fitzgerald?
 * Already has an article, but no sources provided. Should be notable, though.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Already has an article, but no sources provided. Should be notable, though.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Andy Flannagan?
 * He probably is more notable for his political work than in music. He is/was Director of Christians on the Left and has done other work with the Labour Party. He was interviewed on a radio show and is discussed somewhat in this book. Christian Today did post a story about one of his music videos. I'm sure that there's more about this guy, this is just what a short g-hits search turned up.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * He probably is more notable for his political work than in music. He is/was Director of Christians on the Left and has done other work with the Labour Party. He was interviewed on a radio show and is discussed somewhat in this book. Christian Today did post a story about one of his music videos. I'm sure that there's more about this guy, this is just what a short g-hits search turned up.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Dave Godfrey?
 * ❌ I can't find anything else at all.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ I can't find anything else at all.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Simon Goodall?
 * Has an entry in the Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music, which is itself based on information found in other sources.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * it's less than one paragraph in EoCCM and fails. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:50, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * But where did EoCCM get that info? Unfortunately, each entry does not cite the sources consulted, but in the intro Powell says that he and his researchers read through hundreds of print magazines. The reason that I consider an entry, even a brief one, in the Encyclopedia as conferring notability is because it is a strong indicator that other sources exist.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 14:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * That particular encyclopedia lists a lot of artists of questionable notability. If they have a whole column, such as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Salvation Air Force and it was stated that's not enough. That has also been the case with other subjects. This subject only has a single paragraph. I'm glad that you found additional sources, but I still don't think he's notable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:16, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, I found two Phantom Tollbooth reviews (here and here), a Melodic.net review, and this brief mention in a concert review. I think that there is more out there, especially in print.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:18, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, I found two Phantom Tollbooth reviews (here and here), a Melodic.net review, and this brief mention in a concert review. I think that there is more out there, especially in print.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:18, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Carrie & David Grant?
 * Already have individual articles. A quick Google search suggests that they aren't notable as a music duo.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Already have individual articles. A quick Google search suggests that they aren't notable as a music duo.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * David Hadden?
 * All I can find is this. However, Hadden was biggest before the Internet, so there may be print mentions.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * All I can find is this. However, Hadden was biggest before the Internet, so there may be print mentions.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Nick & Anita Haigh?
 * ❌ I couldn't find anything notable apart from some discog listings.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ I couldn't find anything notable apart from some discog listings.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Eoghan Heaslip?
 * This I'm sure is not an exhaustive list: JFH, Crosswalk, CBN, AllMusic, Crosswalk.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This I'm sure is not an exhaustive list: JFH, Crosswalk, CBN, AllMusic, Crosswalk.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:42, 1 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Garth Hewitt?
 * Has an entry in Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Has an entry in Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Paul Heyman?
 * All I found was a Phantom Tollbooth review, but there may be more, especially in print.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * All I found was a Phantom Tollbooth review, but there may be more, especially in print.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Sammy Horner?
 * A founding member of The Electrics, I found this and this, as well as a brief mention in this. Probably more print, and maybe even web, sources exist.
 * A founding member of The Electrics, I found this and this, as well as a brief mention in this. Probably more print, and maybe even web, sources exist.


 * Russ Hughes?
 * ❌ Can't find anything of note.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ Can't find anything of note.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Pete James?
 * ❌ Can't find anything of note.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ Can't find anything of note.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Jenny & Alex Legg?
 * Maybe. I found a review by The Phantom Tollbooth, so there might be some additional print coverage.
 * Maybe. I found a review by The Phantom Tollbooth, so there might be some additional print coverage.


 * Richard Lewis?
 * ❌ Can't find anything else at all.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ Can't find anything else at all.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Loose Goose?
 * Entry in Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music, and I found this review.
 * Entry in Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music, and I found this review.


 * Judy MacKenzie-Dunn?
 * Entry in Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music, among many other sources. Note that much of the info on her is under Judy MacKenzie.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Entry in Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music, among many other sources. Note that much of the info on her is under Judy MacKenzie.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Johnny Markin?
 * I used to be in a choir with Markin. He played in a small-time band at the time and his music has never sold well nor is he notable. He now lives just down the freeway from here. He is unknown in the area, other than by members of his own congregation. If these others are like Johnny Markin, I would excluded them. Cross Rhythms clearly reviews a lot of music and one source only is not enough to support notability. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:08, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep. Nothing, apart from store listings or church event notices.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Roger Mayor?
 * ❌ Nothing at all. I found more for Johnny Markin than for this guy.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * ❌ Nothing at all. I found more for Johnny Markin than for this guy.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Krissy Nordhoff?
 * This, this, this, and this. Also, because she is a Dove Award winner, she technically would be considered "Mid importance", which is why I think the importance rating scale needs adjusting, as I mentioned above.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * This, this, this, and this. Also, because she is a Dove Award winner, she technically would be considered "Mid importance", which is why I think the importance rating scale needs adjusting, as I mentioned above.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Ricky Vance?
 * Already has an article.
 * Already has an article.


 * Jonathan Veira?
 * I found the following:, , , and (subscription required for this one). There's a lot of routing coverage and brief mentions in reviews. It's hard to find good sources for performers in the classical traditions, so there might be more, but they might be hard to find.-- 3family6  ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I found the following:, , , and (subscription required for this one). There's a lot of routing coverage and brief mentions in reviews. It's hard to find good sources for performers in the classical traditions, so there might be more, but they might be hard to find.-- 3family6  ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)


 * If there are additional sources to support these artists, by which I mean sources that provide more than minimal or routine coverage, than yes, they are notable. Cross Rhythms alone is not sufficient.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 15:41, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I will go through these and look for additional coverage.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 16:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Okay, done.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 01:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Question about the Christian music importance
Hello! I was looking at the Importance scale and it says that Grammy Award-winning records are listed as high-importance while Dove/Grammy-nominated recordings are listed as mid-importance. I want to know if this applies to the Latin Grammy Awards as well since there are two categories in the Christian field for Spanish and Portuguese-language Christian albums. It also lists albums certified by the RIAA as high-importance, but what about Spanish-language albums that have received a Latin certification from the RIAA and certifications from other countries? Does the high-importance apply for those certifications as well? I'm just asking have I been tagging both the Christian music and Latin music project banners on talk pages for these articles and didn't want to assess the importance scale for an article covered by the Christian music project without knowing. Thanks! Erick (talk) 17:01, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Considering the global nature of the Latin Grammys, I would say yes. The international coverage makes up for the lower profile status of the Awards in the US (conversely, the Grammys are higher profile, but restricted much more to the US.)-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 18:46, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Alright, and the same thing for Latin Grammy-winning artists right? I'll go ahead and update the importance-scale for the Latin Grammy-winning Christian albums. Thank you for the response, Erick (talk) 19:04, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

After a discussion with on my talk, I think the Grammy win criteria for high importance is too broad, if it is for wins within the Christian music genre. I say this because unlike the Dove Awards, there are no artist awards, just awards for recordings. Could we narrow down the criteria some?-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 23:10, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * This discussion hasn't been touched for a few months but there is something else that is too broad and it's the certifications. I may not be an active participant of this project, but I have assessed Spanish- and Portuguese-language Christian albums and some of them have received certifications from certifying authorities aside from the RIAA and would like to know how does the importance apply to them. Plus as I've mentioned before, the RIAA also hands out Latin certifications to Spanish-language albums of which some Christian artists such as Jaci Velasquez (who I've personally listen to) have received. Does the importance to apply to those as well? Erick (talk) 02:19, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Notability of Bands
I am asking to consider if these bands are notable or not, where you all can see the sources I found, for you all to consider their individual cases of notability, with regards to BAND and more importantly GNG. I know some may be able to find additional sources, where I would be gleefully happy of any more developments in that respect. I would be even more gleeful, where if you all consider one of them to be notable to go ahead and create the page for the band.The Cross Bearer (talk) 08:18, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Red Fist Revolution have Cross Rhythms story source, Cross Rhythms review, HM Magazine review, The Phantom Tollbooth review, The Phantom Tollbooth review.
 * No One Is Upright have HM Magazine review, and three reviews from Indie Vision Music.
 * Judgement X Day have HM Magazine review and Indie Vision Music review.
 * Petree have HM Magazine review and Jesus Freak Hideout reviews.
 * The Attending have HM Magazine review and Christ Core review.
 * The Divided World have HM Magazine review and Indie Vision Music review, another Indie Vision Music review.
 * The Gentlemen Homicide have Punknews.org review, Indie Vision Music review, and Christ Core review. I forgot I did this one already, sorry.The Cross Bearer (talk) 04:11, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Malchus have The Phantom Tollbooth review, HM Magazine review, and Powermetal review.
 * Adiastasia have HM Magazine review, Cross Rhythms review, and Powermetal review.
 * Oskord have HM Magazine review and Cross Rhythms review.
 * Within have Cross Rhythms review,Indie Vision Music review, and Christ Core review.
 * A Sequence of Ghosts have HM Magazine review, Cross Rhythms review, and Cross Rhythms review.
 * Coriolis have HM Magazine review, The Phantom Tollbooth review, HM Magazine story, and The Phantom Tollbooth review.
 * Leper have HM Magazine review, The Phantom Tollbooth review, Cross Rhythms review, ''The Phantom Tollbooth review.
 * Wonrowe Vision have HM Magazine review and Unbombed review.
 * Seryn have HM Magazine review and Indie Vision Music review.
 * The Beautiful Refrain have HM Magazine review and Indie Vision Music review.
 * Runway City have AllMusic review, HM Magazine review, and Indie Vision Music review.
 * Evolett have AbsolutePunk review, Alternative Press review, HM Magazine review, and Melodic.net review.
 * Life on Repeat have AllMusic review, HM Magazine review, Indie Vision Music review, Mind Equals Blown Review, The Sound Alarm review, and Stitched Sound review.

I'm concerned that we're relying solely on short reviews. I have seen articles created for bands that are far from notable based on this sort of coverage. It would be better if at least one feature article on the subject could be found. Based on the creation of previously created articles though, they appear to meet the same criteria. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Of these bands, I have only heard of The Gentleman Homicide. But (And I'm am just putting my opinion out here) I think, we should write the history of these bands, (with sources of course) and find all current and former members, because it seems some of the articles I have read through are not complete up to date. (I am not trying to be rude, but it's true). --Metalworker14 (Yo) 17:16, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I second the concerns of both Walter and Metalworker.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 21:22, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


 * I would like to thank you all for looking over them, and giving me your opinions.The Cross Bearer (talk) 04:11, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Stellar work sourcing the references. I would spin Metalworker14's concern and take a different approach to my earlier comment: if the sources we have don't give basic biographic information about the band, in other words, they only give an album review and not enough to give a brief history, we probably shouldn't be pushing for articles. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:12, 25 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Happy Thanksgiving Guys!! 9:19, November 26, 2015 (UTC)

Discussion regarding terminology of singles
I have started a discussion regarding how Wikipedia should define singles. Please go here to discuss.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 19:00, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Jesus Freak Hideout (4th nomination)
Yet another attempt to delete the article, this time canvassing all of the previous deletion nominators. Please comment with your opinion, whatever it may be.  Royal broil  04:29, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Add cMusicWeb to reliable source list
cMusicWeb is not currently listed in this project's reliable sources list. I propose that the site be included. It has a full editorial staff, and is published through the company Different Media. It has been used as a reference in an academic book, and the site's co-founder was used as an endorsement for another book (this helps establish that it is a well-reputed website). It also has been referred to in PluggedIn and Cross Rhythms articles.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 23:47, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

CM Productions magazines
They publish two reliable magazines, Christian Musician and Worship Musician, while they can be found on Issuu, where some of their back issues exist.The Cross Bearer (talk &#124; contribs) 05:22, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I have been aware of these publications for years. Thanks for the info. Would you like to add them to Wikipedia:WikiProject Christian music/Sources? Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:56, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * This is the first I've heard of either of them. I don't see why it shouldn't be added to the list. ilovemusic  (Talk To Me!)  00:07, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I never heard of either before either.  Royal broil  01:15, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Great resource for music sources
Just wanted to talk about a new website I've found. AmericanRadioHistory.com has PDF versions of Radio & Records (which began publishing Christian charts in 2001 and is a very reliable source here) and - this is the big one - Billboard magazine. These articles are searchable both internally (through the PDF) and a universal search that lets you search through all issues of that magazine. I cannot understate how useful this is, in particular in finding chart peaks.  Toa   Nidhiki05  01:56, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * WOW! That's very handy for music articles in general, especially earlier-era topics. Thanks so much for finding that! Seriously, this is one of the best source-finding incidents that I've encountered.-- 3family6 ( Talk to me   &#124;  See what I have done  ) 02:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I honestly have no idea how I found it. There are searchable Billboard charts on google, but they are spotty. This must be new because I've been writing about this stuff for 5 years and I've extensively looked everywhere for the Billboard stuff. I'm just as excited about R&R, honestly. I'm working on MercyMe's debut album Almost There, which went double platinum but its singles charted well before Billboard began tracking anything. The main reason I worked virtually every album of theirs other than it is the lack of non-firewall resources on chart peaks, particularly for singles. And it's already helped me find pretty much everything I needed.  Toa   Nidhiki05  02:14, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
 * That's an excellent resource! I'm glad to be made aware of it. R&R was the most accurate chart for Christian Music until it was bought by Billboard.  Royal broil  01:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

AfD for Justifide
Not sure how active this project is, but as I know zero about Christian rock music it would be good if people more knowledgable than me on this subject could chip in on the above AfD here. Richard3120 (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages
Greetings Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:


 * Fix and improve Mr.Z-bot's popular pages report

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, — Delivered: 17:57, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Popular pages report
We – Community Tech – are happy to announce that the Popular pages bot is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, will post at /Popular pages with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of. We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new:
 * The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.
 * The report will include a link to the pageviews tool for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.
 * The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).

We're grateful to for his original, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at m:User talk:Community Tech bot.

Warm regards, the Community Tech Team 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

The Choir
Please comment on whether WP:PRIMARY content is appropriate as outlined at Talk:The Loudest Sound Ever Heard. Also, if you can help expand the article, that would be useful. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Worship Central
I do think that after releasing four albums of which three have topped the Official Christian & Gospel Albums Chart Worship Central are worthy of their own article. Their album Set Apart is already worthy of its own article. Worship Central is currently a redirect to Tim Hughes's article and while he is the most notable member of the group he is not the only member. I don't want to spend a long time writing and referencing an article for it to be deleted so I'd like to reach consensus here before I start.

What are your thoughts?

The boss 1998 (talk) 17:47, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree. It's odd to have an album article without an article for the creator. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:50, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I made a quick start on it at Draft:Worship Central. I've found it very hard to find sources despite them releasing four albums so it is very much lacking content. If anyone else is able to add something, please do so. As it's so brief at the moment and is more of an outline in its current form I think we need to work on expanding it more before it is moved to Worship Central.
 * The boss 1998 (talk) 15:59, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * That's essentially a discography. If it's hard to source, maybe we just clear both out? Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:58, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Did you search for content about the band in the reviews from the Set Apart article? You especially could branch to their AllMusic biography .  Royal broil  03:02, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Willa Dorsey
Can someone please add an article on Willa Dorsey? She would meet notability requirements given that she was nominated for a Grammy for "The World's Most Exciting Gospel Singer in 1968". --Musciod (talk) 09:18, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Ichthus May 2018 is available

 * Project News: An admin is admonished
 * Achievements: Ralph Abernathy promoted
 * Featured article: Missionaries in the rainforest
 * Did You Know: Ioan C. Filitti sentenced to death
 * * Read this Ichthus in full * Get Ichthus delivered to your Talkpage * – Lionel(talk) 11:57, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject collaboration notice from the Portals WikiProject
The reason I am contacting you is because there are one or more portals that fall under this subject, and the Portals WikiProject is currently undertaking a major drive to automate portals that may affect them.

Portals are being redesigned.

The new design features are being applied to existing portals.

At present, we are gearing up for a maintenance pass of portals in which the introduction section will be upgraded to no longer need a subpage. In place of static copied and pasted excerpts will be self-updating excerpts displayed through selective transclusion, using the template Transclude lead excerpt.

The discussion about this can be found here.

Maintainers of specific portals are encouraged to sign up as project members here, noting the portals they maintain, so that those portals are skipped by the maintenance pass. Currently, we are interested in upgrading neglected and abandoned portals. There will be opportunity for maintained portals to opt-in later, or the portal maintainers can handle upgrading (the portals they maintain) personally at any time.

Background
On April 8th, 2018, an RfC ("Request for comment") proposal was made to eliminate all portals and the portal namespace. On April 17th, the Portals WikiProject was rebooted to handle the revitalization of the portal system. On May 12th, the RfC was closed with the result to keep portals, by a margin of about 2 to 1 in favor of keeping portals.

There's an article in the current edition of the Signpost interviewing project members about the RfC and the Portals WikiProject.

Since the reboot, the Portals WikiProject has been busy building tools and components to upgrade portals.

So far, 84 editors have joined.

If you would like to keep abreast of what is happening with portals, see the newsletter archive.

If you have any questions about what is happening with portals or the Portals WikiProject, please post them on the WikiProject's talk page.

Thank you. &mdash; The Transhumanist  07:28, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Ichthus June 2018 is out now!

 * Project News: Is Genesis History? See the RFC.
 * Did You Know: Phineas Hodson’s wife dies
 * Featured article: Jewish boy causes fall of Roman Catholic Papal States?
 * * Read this Ichthus in full * Get Ichthus delivered to your Talkpage * – Lionel(talk) 04:03, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Ichthus July 2018 is out now!

 * The Top 7 Report: The big news was the marriage of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle
 * Did You Know: Sun of Unclouded Righteousness
 * Our newest Featured list: List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events
 * * Read this Ichthus in full * Get Ichthus delivered to your Talkpage * – Lionel(talk) 08:04, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Orin Adolphus Parris
Hello. Is anyone else interested in working on Orin Adolphus Parris? Please ping me when you reply. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:47, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

Women in Red November 2018
In November 2018, Women in Red is focusing on Religion.--Ipigott (talk) 12:15, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Red Letters
I just saw that there is an article for "Red Letters", a song by Crowder. I know that there isn't an article or even a redirect, but shouldn't there be some kind of disambiguation for the identically-named song by dc Talk? It was featured on WOW 1999. Morriswa (Charlotte Allison) (talk) 05:31, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

A new newsletter directory is out!
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
 * – Sent on behalf of Headbomb. 03:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

FA nomination for Almost There
Almost There (album) article is up for featured article status. As a significant (high-importance) article in this WikiProject, any and all project members are invited to comment on or review the nomination and help see if it fits the featured article criteria. Toa Nidhiki05 22:31, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

As I Lay Dying (band)
Hi guys,

So I started an individual GA reassessment on this in-a-way Christian metalcore band's article nine months ago...yeah, you can say I got distracted, ahaha. I managed to let a whole season from my favorite hockey team come and go by before I finished the halfway done review. Anyway, I was reminded in March, and it had been bugging me at the back of my mind until today when I found time to do it. I have completed the reassessment and I am willing to keep it open a good long while - like a month - for improvements (it's only fair since I did accordingly). I am letting everyone know immediately, since there does seem to be a hefty chunk of work that needs to be done in addition to what I've already fixed, although I believe saving it is possibly feasible. Please let me know, either here or on the article's talk page, if you're interested in putting some work in. Thanks for your attention!  danny music editor  oops 03:23, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: FA nomination for Almost There (album)
Just a reminder to anyone interested: the article for Almost There (album) is up for featured article status. This is a high-importance article in this WikiProject and one of the best-selling Christian records of all time so, any and all project members are invited to comment on or review the nomination and help see if it fits the featured article criteria. The nomination is starting to lose attention and might be archived soon, so any comments are appreciated! Toa Nidhiki05 16:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

So there's a resource....
Hello friends. I have a story to tell. Long ago, I wrote bunches of articles here, ranging from bands to eventually big topics like Christian music industry and Christian music festival. Over time while doing research for numerous articles, I realized that even where resources were already available, finding specific references inside of them was not an easy task.

For instance, if you had all 30 years of CCM magazine in front of you, you still couldn't write effectively about Andrae Crouch. Trouble is, it's too much to look through, and you don't specifically know where it is, etc. Second, While building pages like WP:CCM/S I came to realize that there were numerous smaller resources which could offer a unique perspective, but were next to impossible to find without a guide or way too wasted time. Finally, obscure topics were next to impossible to research properly. Christian ska, for instance, spend over a year in various stages of research before seeing the light of day.

What was really needed was a new resource, one that would simplify research where such sources were available. Since I have a background in programming, I figured that I could make it happen. Check out what I've been working on at the CMnexus.

Dan, the CowMan (talk) 00:16, 25 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Has this project died? Dan, the CowMan (talk) 19:01, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No but most WikiProjects aren't as active as they were a few years ago. I wish you good luck with your website!  Royal broil  03:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

User:DantheCowMan since nobody ever thanked you for this, I've found this resource to be invaluable in working on articles, specifically finding stuff from CCM Magazine and Charisma. So kudos for this! Toa Nidhiki05 00:59, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of Portal:Christian music for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Christian music is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Christian music until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America1000 23:14, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

Some changes to WikiProject Christian music/Sources
I realize this project is mostly dead outside of a handful of committed editors, but figured I'd note some changes made to WikiProject Christian music/Sources - an excellent resource page that is kind of hidden on the front page to be honest:


 * 1) Added a link to CMnexus, a phenomenal resource for finding Christian music articles. While you still need to manually look for them, it gives a great look of the names and dates of articles, making it easy to find coverage of groups and albums.
 * 2) Overhauled the charts section. The section on CCM Magazine charts now correctly attributes them to The CCM Update. I've listed all five charts (CHR, AC, Inspriational, Rock, and Country) as well as guidance on usage (reliable before the creation of comparable Radio & Records charts). I've also included the link to the minimal online archive, as well as a note that The Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music has a limited history of the CHR chart. I have this book on order so I'll see if it's true or not.
 * 3) Provided accurate beginning and ending dates for Radio & Records and Billboard charts, as well as guidance on finding the information for R&R and lesser Billboard charts. Unfortunately, Billboard has ended the longstanding Soft AC/INSPO and Christian rock charts, and I have adjusted it to recognize that fact.

I would like to make a few other proposed changes:
 * 1) Removing The Rock Across Australia. I don't know if this is a countdown chart or what, but it basically exists only on a facebook page.
 * 2) Advice on Cross Rhythms charts. Cross Rhythms itself is highly notable, but are the charts actually real or are they simply taken from a single radio station? If it is real and not a WP:BADCHART, it should be incorporated more into articles. Their charts are quirky and sometimes include crossover or secular artists like Paramore (who have charted year-end in 2014, 2015, 2017, and 2018), so it's a nice addition to our normal ones, if they are legit.

I'm currently trying to find any way to access the old CCM Update charts, which would make it much easier to accurately reflect artist discographies. I've had little luck so far but I'll note any more updates. Toa <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 02:29, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * It looked good. I don't see any problems with your suggested changes either. As for Cross Rhythms, they have a very broad definition of what constitues Christian music. They are more open than True Tunes or Harvest Rock Syndicate. Thanks for your work on this. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:40, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Featured article nomination for Almost There (album)
I’ve renominated Almost There (album), a high-importance article in this project, for Featured article. Any editors are welcome to add to the discussion at the nomination page. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 13:18, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

Found some of the CCM Magazine Chart archives (from August 1995 on)
Prior to Radio and Records publishing the Christian music charts, CCM Magazine did. They did not do this in their monthly magazine, but in a side magazine called The CCM Update. Most of these charts are essentially lost, outside of if you happened to subscribe to the magazine or if you own one of the two Hot Hits books, which only covered the AC and CHR charts.

After some digging I’ve managed to find a small archive of this publication, stretching from May 29, 2000 to the creation of the R&R chart. The archive can be found here. Unfortunately, only the top 10 songs for each week are shown (I assume the print version would showcase the entire chart) but it does include the four major CCM charts:
 * Adult Contemporary (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard AC charts)
 * CHR (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard CHR charts)
 * Inspirational (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard Soft AC/INSPO chart, which is now defunct)
 * Rock (the predecessor of the R&R and Billboard Christian rock chart, which is now defunct)

The links on the archive page show the number-one single each week. Clicking on any of the chart names shows the entire top ten for all charts. The Christian rock chart only published bi-weekly (every other week), and is absent in the odd weekends between the chart reveal. The other 3 charts were published every weekend. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 15:37, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: I found it! This is a more substantial archive that goes all the way back to August 1995. This covers the entirety of the gap for Hot Hits CHR, which only went up to 1997. I am not sure if all of the links here work but it’s better than nothing! This also includes a chart I’ve never heard of before - the Country Christian chart, published bi-weekly! These charts only include the top 5 singles. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 18:26, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Additional source: the decade-end AC charts for the 1990s. 100 songs in total. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 12:21, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Acquired the Encyclopedia of Contemporary Chrsitian Music with CD
If anyone needs anything on an entry in this book, I'm available. A quick look has found it to be extensively researched with a wealth of useful information for pre-internet era contemporary Christian music - it also includes (most) chart positions on the CHR chart from 1978 to 2002. If there's a discography that needs references or work, let me know. I also have the AC Hot Hits book for citations, so this collectively is about 99% of the two major CCM charts. I and am actively looking the out-of-print CHR one if anyone has it and is willing to sell. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 00:58, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
 * is the book ? If so, I have it as well. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:14, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yep, it’s that one. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 13:03, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sweet. Then is how you add it. if it's used repeatedly, I use name="EofCCM" when adding it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:45, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, even came with the CD and I was able to get the PDF untethered from the CD, so I have a searchable PDF file of the entire book. Gonna be invaluable in the future. I'm going to start fixing some artist discography pages - unfortunately we lack the Inspirational or Rock charts, which leaves some artists (like dc Talk with the Rock chart or Phillips, Craig & Dean with the Inspirational chart) shortchanged, but it's better than nothing and AC and CHR are and always have been the two major charts. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 23:04, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Created new subsection for The CCM Update on the CCM Magazine page
Information can be found at the CCM Magazine page and others are welcome to add information as needed. The CCM Update published the primary CCM charts for over two decades; in chart history tables or in mentions, the charts should be attributed to The CCM Update, not CCM Magazine'', for CCM charts after May 1983, when the publications split. This covers the AC, CHR, Inspirational, Rock, and Country charts. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 01:21, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Featured list candidates/Steven Curtis Chapman discography/archive1
I've nominated Steven Curtis Chapman discography for featured article. Chapman is one of the most successful figures in CCM history and his discography is extensive, so this was a major undertaking; here's a link to the nomination if anyone is interesting in commenting on the nomination to resolve any details in what will hopefully be the first of many featured list discographies for legacy artists here. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 01:41, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Some good news and some bad news
After extensive internet sleuthing, I’ve acquired a complete database of every single song to have charted on every chart published by CCM Magazine and The CCM Update from 1978 to 2001. This covers the four historically major charts (AC, CHR, Inspirational, and Rock) as well as the defunct Country, Southern Gospel, and Bluegrass (listed as “BG”, which is why I’m assuming its bluegrass) charts. After examining the entries they seem to line up completely with my own research on the topic (including chart frames that I know exist for the rock and CHR charts) as well as the information featured in Hot Hits, so I am confident this is a completely authoritative resource on the subject.

Now, the bad news - this is no located on a website. It’s a Microsoft Access file that I have since converted to an Excel file. I’m going to contact CCM Magazine and see if they’d be interested in starting a database on their website using the information - assuming that fails (which it likely will), I may purchase my own domain and republish this information, or just give the chart numbers to anyone who is interested. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 19:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * The database would be a good resource. Let us know how the publisher approaches the discussion. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I’ve sent them a message via their website. Hopefully I’ll hear back and be able to work something out. This is really invaluable stuff and I am hopeful they’ll be open to some kind of arrangement. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 20:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Michael W. Smith discography nominated for featured article
I've nominated Michael W. Smith discography, a top-importance article under this project's purview, for featured list. For anyone interested, any and all comments are welcome. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 00:02, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Classic Christian Charts is under construction
Happy to announce I've started work on Classic Christian Charts, which will include the entire chart archive I've found. Here's a sample post of what this is going to look like - it has the entire AC chart history in web PDF and Excel form.


 * Adult Contemporary (1978-2002)

I'll be getting a full domain name once I've finished the website. My goal for right now is to get all 8 major charts (Adult Contemporary, CHR, Inspirational, and Rock as well as County, Metal, Black Gospel, and Southern Gospel) uploaded. For now I would advise not citing to this, if it's even to be deemed reliable - although by my quick check of certain artists, it seems to be very accurate. I have not heard back from CCM Magazine about publishing this, unfortunately, so this website seems like the best way to try. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 02:03, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Just so you know I've not forgotten about this, I think I'm going to shift to an eBook model. I've started work on a Christian rock eBook similar to the Hot Hits book and hopefully can make ones for all of the charts, so the information can be easily found online. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 02:14, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The book is finished and should be published on Amazon through the Kindle store in the next few days. Nominal price is probably going to be $0.99-$2.99 for now and it will have an eBook and paperback option. I'll post a link here when it's up. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 20:47, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Christian rock chart book is out and is free for this week
My Christian rock chart book is now out and is free on the Kindle store until this Friday! It’s more bare-bones than Hot Hits or Powell’s encyclopedia but AFAIK it’s the only online-accessible full chart archive. <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 11:24, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Billboard has added several charts to their artist pages
Sample page for MercyMe. The Christian AC Songs chart is now listed along with Bubbling Under Hot 100 and Music Video Sales. This is a big deal for Christian discography pages! <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i> <i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i> 13:22, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Am I making too much of this non-issue?
A single editor keeps adding what I think is innuendo to an article about a well-known Christian worship musician who has started to publicly question his faith. I started a discussion on the article's talk page and would appreciate a few non-involved eyes on the issue. Discussion at Talk:Marty Sampson Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:41, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Responded there. If Sampson has been public about questioning his faith, then that's what belongs in the article, not the content currently under dispute. --Fru1tbat (talk) 14:59, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool
Hello and greetings from the maintainers of the WP 1.0 Bot! As you may or may not know, we are currently involved in an overhaul of the bot, in order to make it more modern and maintainable. As part of this process, we will be rewriting the web tool that is part of the project. You might have noticed this tool if you click through the links on the project assessment summary tables.

We'd like to collect information on how the current tool is used by....you! How do you yourself and the other maintainers of your project use the web tool? Which of its features do you need? How frequently do you use these features? And what features is the tool missing that would be useful to you? We have collected all of these questions at this Google form where you can leave your response. Walkerma (talk) 04:24, 27 October 2019 (UTC)