Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers/Archive 34

Cecilia Chailly
This new article could use some attention. Not sure if she is notable or not.4meter4 (talk) 10:35, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Unassessed Composers project articles
This project used to have thorough-going assessments. Before the last biographical infobox incident (Feb/March 2010) we we were processing every new unassessed article. This stopped after all the shenanigans. Category:Unassessed Composers articles now has 986 articles. What should we do? Is someone willing to work on this, or should we abandon assessments altogether? Any views on this? -- Klein zach  00:17, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Creative teams, and 21st century composers
I've just started to throw down some initial notes for my first composer article, and have a couple of questions. I've noted the creative teams (conductor and director) for Detlev Glanert's operas (as (a) I have them, and (b) it's interesting to see who he is working with). I felt I was wasting too much screen space by endlessly repeating the "Conductor: " and "Production: " texts, so have tried dropping in the abbreviations (c) and (p), with a key (See draft). Does the project consider this to be (a) completely unacceptable, (b) not pretty, but acceptable, or (c) a good solution? (Given that WP does not know about, eg, Leiser and Caurier, I could easily be persuaded to drop the whole idea and leave this out completely).

Second question: Herr Glanert has been active in both this and the previous century -- do I include him in the category of 21st century composers and/or the 20th century composers? Thanks for any feedback! Scarabocchio (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)


 * In the past we've used this column order: title/form/subdivisions/libretto and source/premiere date/premiere venue. I think that's logical. Also if you use more columns you can avoid repetitions of words like 'libretto' and acts, as well as abbreviations that readers may find irritating. I would also cut down on red links - only use them when you plan to write articles on the subjects. Hope that helps. -- Klein zach  01:45, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I've cut the creative teams, and shuffled the columns to a Grove-like order. (This is all still very rough, so the red links were just me finding out what does/ doesn't exist). Thanks. Scarabocchio (talk) 06:51, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Paul Whitty notable?
Article is basically referenced to self-published material (and badly written). Voceditenore (talk) 21:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Overhauls
Is there somewhere contributors can log composer articles to which they have given substantial overhauls? I ask because I have done some work on Paul Dukas and Arthur Bliss lately, and though neither article is of GA quality (nor have I any ambitions in that direction for either) they are both probably more than start class now, and could do with an objective eye to reassess them, if that is possible. Tim riley (talk) 13:28, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * There is a difficulty here re assessments, see the 'Unassessed Composers project articles' above. -- Klein zach  09:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Mykola Leontovych
Hello, over the past few months I've significantly expanded the article on Mykola Leontovych. Can an experienced member of this project reassess it, and maybe give some hints on what can be done to improve it from the point of view of his career as a composer? Thanks! --BoguslavM 01:10, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Victor Varela - modern composer
Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard

Hi, a note to interested editors as this article report at the BLPN appears to be within the scope of this wikiproject, an assistance appreciated, thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 11:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

David J. Sosnowski
David J. Sosnowski Hi, another composer looking for a citation or two - currently uncited. Report at Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard - subject seems of limited note but perhaps worthy of an article, regards. Off2riorob (talk) 20:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


 * An IP removed the PROD with this comment. Now at Articles for deletion/David J. Sosnowski. Voceditenore (talk) 06:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Giovanni Francesco di Caspará
Is somebody sure that this musician actually exists ? There are no source and no reference. "... where he met Antonio Vivaldi and possibly studied with him ..." : no mention of it in Talbot's "Antonio Vivaldi". I found only very few matches on Google, mostly WP or WP derived, and the user who created this page some years ago (Violadagambist) never wrote anything else on WP. Thanks. Gérard (talk) 08:37, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find a thing on him even using just "Kasparau" or "Caspará" that wasn't a Wikipedia mirror. I've tagged it as possible hoax. It probably should be brought to AfD. Voceditenore (talk) 09:42, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the intent is Francesco Gasparini? Same period, also an associate of Vivaldi's. --Ravpapa (talk) 11:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I don't think so. Their "life stories" are completely different. I've nominated it for deletion at Articles for deletion/Giovanni Francesco di Caspará. Voceditenore (talk) 13:22, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Hoax. It reminds me of a similar hoax article on a non-existent Baroque composer "Antonio Domenico Viraldini" that we deleted more than six years ago.  That one managed to spread all over the internet -- it's still around if you Google it.  The hoaxer even wrote some (rather clumsy) music in Baroque style to go with his creation.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are more hoax articles out there that we just haven't found yet. Antandrus  (talk) 14:46, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I checked on the viola list, where the world's greatest viola mavens discuss esoterica. If there were a Baroque concerto for two violas with realized harpsichord part, they would have known about it. The opinions there are that it is a hoax. --Ravpapa (talk) 14:51, 5 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Well spotted! I think the evidence is fairly conclusive that this is a fiction.  --Deskford (talk) 14:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Christopher Hobbs
Just wanted to let you know that the entry for Christopher Hobbs (the composer, not the herbalist) has been messed up by one of your editors, Jerome Kohl. I initiated the article; I also wrote the Grove Music article on Hobbs. There had been a move to delete this article last July so, in response to a request for sources, I put in some, including the Grove article and my MA thesis, which, in its most recent edition, was published by the Experimental Music Catalogue in 2000. Kohl has changed these sources based on what he can access. He obviously cannot access the online edition of Grove; he kept, therefore changing it back to the 2001 print edition. The Hobbs article in Grove was uploaded online with a new contemporary music project in 2009. He insisted on using the original print editors, John Tyrrell and Stanley Sadie, when the editor at the time of the upload was Laura Macy. He changed the preferred citation for this article back to Tyrrell and Sadie until he could gain negative proof of its appearance in this edition - he went to the library and found that it wasn't there. Yet he continued to doubt the editorship of L. Macy, simply because, as a person not specialised in music, he was unable to access this site. As to my thesis, his 'proof' that the second edition did not exist was looking in the OCLC, which is by no means complete as far as small press issues are concerned. In fact, he may not have been looking for the right book at all. He says that he has found a digitized version from 2001. If this is accurate, it is a pirated copy and should be reported. My PhD thesis, from 2004, was digitized and was, for a short time, available from the British Library online, and a thesis from a completely different person written in 2001 is available on Proquest. He seems to edit without physically looking at the documents themselves, as his removal of the 'special issue' part of the double issue of Perspectives of New Music. This is illogical; either one takes a stand and uses only hard copy over soft (so that the print edition of Grove is more authoritative than the online one, which is unsatisfactory, since Grove has expanded greatly since 2001), or accepts only online information (although the 'special issue' should be accessible to those using JSTOR).

When I complained I got a high-handed noise from Kohl about verifiability. He has also added various illiteracies ('Hobbs born in Hillingdon, near London'). The result is embarrassing.

Experimusic (talk) 07:17, 8 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't call Jerome Kohl "a person not specialised in music". He's a musicologist and expert on Stockhausen. (See also his publications on Jstor.) He's also a very experienced Wikipedia editor. I've added the verb to "Hobbs born in Hillingdon, near London", which I think was just an oversight on his part. He had quite rightly moved the birthplace out of the DoB parenthesis in the lede per Wikipedia's Manual of Style. But really, I don't see where the problem is now. He acknowledged his error re Grove and restored the Grove Online reference six months ago. Note that some Wikipedia editors give preference to paper publications where available. The other changes were minor, and correct in my view. There was no real need for "(special issue)" and as he explained on the talk page it was also inaccurate, and in referring to the MA thesis, he was right to give the original source and original date and suggest a note to say that it had been reprinted in facsimile by the Experimental Music Catalogue. I didn't find his explanations on the talk page "high handed", but I can see how someone new to Wikipedia, might find it all a bit of a pain. Anyhow, are there any other concerns you have with the article in its current state? Voceditenore (talk) 10:14, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Oscar Strasnoy
An oddity here. Clearly 'notable' in WP terms (won a Guggenheim award, etc.), the article reads like a publicity release. Checking on the composer's website, I find that the bios in various languages revert to the WP articles in those languages. (A sort of'copy-vio' in reverse........)--Smerus (talk) 05:46, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's getting increasingly common for people to link to their Wikipedia articles, although in the the state this one was in, I certainly would have thought twice.;-) Anyhow, I've cleaned it up and referenced it with proper sources as opposed to... er.. amazon.com. It could be considerably expanded. There's lots stuff about him and his works in French publications. Voceditenore (talk) 11:08, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Gustav Holst
Could I have another pair of eyes look at the current lead for the Gustav Holst article? Preferably just read it before looking at the history to get an unbiased view (i.e. so you don't know what "side" I am on in any possible edit scuffle). Want to make sure I'm not overreacting. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 17:02, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well it's clearly all over the place: disordered, discontinuous and evinces non-neutrality, much of it doesn't square with (or is not represented) in the article; and it is in no way helpful to anyone seeking information in giving a useful overview of the subject. But apart from that it seems perfect.......--Smerus (talk) 20:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * LOL -- as it turns out (just now on a hunch I put the first line into Google) it's a copy-paste from this website, so it's a copyvio. Still, if anyone has ideas on how to address the issue of Holst's political views in the lede (or if, at all, they need to be) feel free to weigh in.  Cheers, Antandrus  (talk) 21:52, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

The whole article needs a makeover - preferably with some more hit-the-spot references than the Concise Britannia.--Smerus (talk) 11:38, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Louis Spohr article
Hello - I'd like to request some help in getting this article into 'compliance' with Wiki standards. I've noted on the Talk Page that there is a need for inline citations, especially in the "Life" section. There are referenced books, but only one footnote in that section - as I stated, I only have found the New Grove print article on the subject, and the International Encyclopedia of Music and Musicians 11th ed. - and I don't want to adjust the current existing text very much, since I feel it is probably accurate from the referenced sources, but just needs to have those references cited in the article. What can be done about correcting this?

I was going to use the above to try to give a short critical summary on the music of Spohr this weekend. The article has suffered from too much pro, followed by some con from vandals. He's been a recent personal discovery, and while he certainly is not a major composer, I've enjoyed his music that I've heard (chamber music, three operas, 4 symphonies, 5 concertos, a couple sonatas, a choral work) and admire the craftsmanship of it. HammerFilmFan (talk) 16:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC) HammerFilmFan

Is there still room for ANTONIO BERTALI (1605-1669), born same year as CARISSIMI, in the Baroque Era Componists timeline? His MISSA RESURRECTIONIS has been recorded live by Yale's Schola Cantorum (& Collegium Players) in a fine atmospheric production (Dec 2005). Antoniouwik (talk) 09:02, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Elliott Miles McKinley
I'm not sure that this composer is notable. His article has been nominated for deletion. Please discuss. Bearian (talk) 19:30, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that this article has enough references to meet the Wikipedia "notability" criteria for contemporary composers. I have commented on the deletion discussion, but it looks to me like more editors with knowledge in the area of contemporary composers are needed to gain a complete discussion. Note that the deletion discussion has been relisted. Scot Johnston (talk) 19:18, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

correction to entry on David St John
The footnote reference 2 to B.Lebrun (2009) in the David St John entry is misplaced and erroneous. Nowhere does Lebrun discuss the particular case of St John in her book. 130.88.58.45 (talk) 13:22, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In that case, if you are feeling cautious you should tag the ref where it occurs in the main text with a template; if you are feeling bold, you could delete the erroneous ref and replace it with  .—Jerome Kohl (talk) 15:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I've tagged it as a hoax. I can't find anything on this person nor the things he said to have done, nor his wife. Via Google books and Amazon "search inside" 3 of the 4 references are spurious. The 4th is to an undated article allegedly in Oui. The refs were all added by an IP as their sole edit after the article was PRODed. Voceditenore (talk) 16:05, 19 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm, looks very suspicious. I can't find anything on Google, so I think he must be either a hoax or non-notable.  The link to his supposed wife actually goes to someone completely different.  Previous proposed deletion was as WP:BLPPROD so I think it's still eligible for WP:PROD.  --Deskford (talk) 16:34, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Ernest Bloch article : Deletion of important links
I added links with mention "Available on YouTube" on Ernest Bloch's works which are on YouTube, for the reader can listen the works mentionned. This system ("Available on YouTube"), which is very useful, is on several Wikipedia articles about composers, and it starts to generalize. But a user named "Melodia" has deleted (2011, July the 19th) all this important additions. I think he doesn't respect the spirit of Wikipedia, which is to be in relation with all internet. And by the way, "Melodia" has also deleted some titles (and dates) of Ernest Bloch's works. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.243.236.99 (talk) 16:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * While you are correct about the presence of YouTube links on many Wikipedia articles, it is probable that Melodia had in mind this guideline.—Jerome Kohl (talk) 16:33, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, the problem is that from what I've seen of those links they are all potential copyright violations. WP:External links has more information about this and why they had to be removed. And no, Wikipedia is not supposed to be a link directory. What Wikipedia is not has more on this. Best, Voceditenore (talk) 16:40, 25 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the only title (and date) that Melodia has deleted was a duplicate entry of From Jewish Life &mdash; it was listed under "Instrumental" and under "Concertante". As far as I remember this was written for cello and piano and the version for cello and strings was someone else's arrangement, which is probably why she removed it.  --Deskford (talk) 16:53, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I merely reverted the IP's edit. And indeed, From Jewish Life as far as my own research has shown was only by Bloch in its cello and piano version. Anything else is by someone else. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:17, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Sylvie Bodorová
The article is being discussed at Articles for deletion/Sylvie Bodorová. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 14:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Johannes Lupi/Lupus Hellinck
Could someone look at sorting this out? This may be two articles on the same person that should be merged. See articles at Lupus Hellinck and Johannes Lupi. Pkeets (talk) 16:25, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Joachim Raff Edit
Tudor Records, based in Zurich, has been on the fore-front of recording and promoting Raff's works. On the Wikipedia article on Joachim Raff, there was a section on recordings, and I began adding Tudor releases of Raff records. Somebody whose username is "Melodia", has consistently been deleting this addition. Then "Melodia" deleted the whole section.

From other complaints, it appears the the same user has been making destructive edits on various articles which goes against the Wikipedia purpose. What can we do about this user? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dumbsearch (talk • contribs) 15:50, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * What can be done is you can actually read the various policies and guidelines (starting with WP:ELNO and perhaps advancing to WP:LINKSPAM) rather than accusing people of "making destructive edits on various articles which goes against the Wikipedia purpose." (I'd love to see any said 'complaints' which aren't groundless as yours are). And FWIW, I have plenty of Tudor discs of Raff's music and enjoy them a lot. But I'm not about to go advertise them on WP, because that's not what WP is for. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 16:22, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Infoboxes on WP:G&S
Editors are attempting to require us to add infoboxes in several articles in the WP:G&S project. Does anyone wish to weigh in on the discussion at Talk:Richard D'Oyly Carte? All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:48, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Update: It seems the valiant G&S crew have now got the ship pretty much under control (I think).--MistyMorn (talk) 11:03, 7 October 2011 (UTC) [spoke too soon...]--MistyMorn (talk) 14:45, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

List of Luxembourgian composers
Please, correct a mistake: "List of Luxembourgian composers" should be "List of LuxembourgISH composers".

Thanks!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iboumans (talk • contribs) 00:00, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Boris Brunov
I've never heard of this supossedly "famous" composer. Anyone care to take a crack at making it into an informative article without the one line of puffery?4meter4 (talk) 06:14, 27 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Who is claiming this man was a composer? The article doesn't. -- Klein zach  07:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Is it now clarified? The article still needs better sources and expansion. Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 08:11, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I read it wrong last night when it was past my bed time. It said compere not composer. lol4meter4 (talk) 12:00, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Henry Holmes
Where does the picture of the Holmes bros. originate? I'd like to get a quality scan for my research project.

Also - I've read that Homes was dismissed from the Royal College of Music. It seems he was caught in an untenable relationship with a female student and thus incurred the wrath of George Grove. Afterwards, Holmes "cracked" and wrote a tract trying to justify his behavior. With such disgrace, I supposed, where could Holmes go but the furthest place from London which had a semblance of culture - San Francisco.

Please write me if you have information on or interest in Henry Holmes. Cheers, Andrew Homzy - andrew.homzy@gmail.com

In the Pacific Ocean on Protection Island V9R 6R1 CANADA
 * 1) 112 Pirates Lane - Nanaimo, BC

http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=112+pirates+lane+nanaimo&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x5488a1155cd4a9a9:0x7894d46bb8ff6677,112+Pirates+Ln,+Nanaimo,+BC+V9R+6R1&gl=ca&ei=dU0yTrahBIPjiALtxP3DCA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBcQ8gEwAA

Phone: 250-667-0238 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewHomzy (talk • contribs) 19:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Francis Poulenc
I've been involved in a bit of a battle about the Poulenc article. Generally, the article could use some additional sourcing, but various IPs (probably the same person) have been trying to add unsourced information or change material without sources. More as a watcher than anything else, I've reverted those changes as unsourced, which has set up the ongoing conflict. For more on the history of this, see my Talk page].

My latest request for semi-protection of the article has met with some resistance by the admins for the various reasons stated on my Talk page. User:EdJohnston suggested that I try to get someone who is interested in improving the article and who will abide by Wikipedia rules to review and work on the article. Hence, this post.

As Ed points out, the article is rated only start-class, but Poulenc is a major composer, so I would hope someone would take an interest. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:46, 13 November 2011 (UTC)