Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers/Archive 36

Benjamin Britten
Hello. I am planning to contribute and expand upon the Benjamin Britten article with the intent of making it an FA. The ultimate goal is to get this as a TFA on 22 November 2013, the centennial of Britten's birth. The discussion can be found at Talk:Benjamin Britten. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

WIMA template
May be of interest here: Templates for discussion/Log/2012 November 27

Toccata quarta (talk) 21:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Krzysztof Penderecki
Hello, once again. In addition to making Benjamin Britten an FA, I am also planning to make Krzysztof Penderecki an FA with the goal of making it a TFA on 23 November 2013, the composer's 80th anniversary of his birth. The discussion is at Talk:Krzysztof Penderecki. Input from project members would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:17, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikiproject notes in articles
Pls see Village pump (policy) - The issues may be much bigger then just the note on the pages - However I believe the viability of the note its self is what we should talk about at this time.Moxy (talk) 23:52, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Polo Piatti
This article is being discussed for deletion at Articles for deletion/Polo Piatti. – Voceditenore (talk) 17:36, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Section heading 'Biography'
I recommend that Biography be replaced with Life and career or another section heading. It's rather strange to see Biography as a section heading within a Bio article. It would be like seeing Book at the top of a page of a book. GoodDay (talk) 21:21, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Many articles on composers cover much more than their biography, so I don't see the strangeness of a section named "Biography" which does describe the biographical details. On the other hand, I often find life and career details mixed in shorter articles (and there's nothing wrong with that), so your poposed section title would be better there. But to declare categorically "Biography" as a section header verboten seems unnecessary and sometimes wrong. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:22, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I have seen this very point debated on a number of composer articles. What puzzles me is why it should make any difference whether the section is labeled with the word "Biography", or with "Life", "Life and career", or something similar, which is after all just a dumbed-down version of the word "biography". I have to agree with Michael about the content of many—perhaps most—composer articles, which contain sections describing or analyzing the works, the composer's philosophy or theories, reception, discography, etc., none of which falls under the heading of "Biography". While it is true that many biographical books on composers also include such material, it is a mistake to confuse "biography" with a "biographical book or article", which doubtless contains a biography properly so-called. Why should we not call it so?—Jerome Kohl (talk) 22:18, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Ditto; I'm completely fine with a "biography" section when there are other sections as well. Calling it "Life" is fine, too, really (Boswell did it). Opus33 (talk) 01:08, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Infobox comment removal discussion
A discussion is taking place at Bot_requests. Input from project members would be appreciated. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:29, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It is not a discussion, it is an attempt at a coup - Please see here - User:Pigsonthewing (Andy Mabett) has used Boxing Day to commission a bot to remove the request on composers pages not to add an infobox: and moreover this has been effected within four hours without any formal notification to the project (or anywhere else). I hardly think this stealth operation is in the spirit of WP. Is it to be taken up with administrators?--Smerus (talk) 21:28, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It's extraordinary that one maverick, frequently-banned, editor should attempt to impose himself on other people in this way. I haven't been on WP for a while. What is the situation now? Has a lot of misinformation been added to articles, as happened before? -- Klein zach  05:39, 14 January 2013 (UTC)


 * There are extensive discussions at WT:WikiProject Classical music and WP:VPP. Toccata quarta (talk) 05:50, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

No infoboxes
Just wondering why none of the composer pages have infoboxes, is this a conscious decision ?Xyphoid (talk) 19:18, 16 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Yes—see the right top of this page. There are a few exceptions, though. Toccata quarta (talk) 19:20, 16 February 2013 (UTC)
 * On a side note - any progress on the box you guys were working on - the change to Wikidata and infoboxes is coming soon - will the project be ready?Moxy (talk) 20:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * In what sense? There's nothing on that page that says Wikidata deployment=compulsory infoboxes. Have I missed something? Voceditenore (talk) 22:36, 17 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Who was working on what box?  Klein zach  01:22, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I assume he's referring to Template:Infobox classical composer, the result of Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Composers/Infoboxes RfC. It is currently used in a number of composer articles, although. as far as I know, not added by members of this project. For more background see this subsequent TfD which closed as "speedy keep as bad-faith nomination". Voceditenore (talk) 08:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
 * That should be "closed out of process, after the template was improperly recreated after a proper AfD". Note that the template is entirely a subset of Infobox person, to which it is thus redundant. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:41, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Alexander Prior composer/conductor
As founder of Legendary Performances (501c3), and producer of "Mowgli" and original ballet composed and conducted by Alexander Prior, it would be a conflict of interest to add to his biography page. I request that the following additions be made to his 2008 timeline, or any other appropriate location. Many thanks, Beverly DeCer

Mowgli, ballet performance, at Kremlin Theatre, February 2008

> Alexander Prior, Composer and conductor, Choreographed and performed by Moscow Classical Ballet > filmed by nonprofit Legendary Performances, www.legendaryperformances.org > DVD hosted by Angela Lansbury > Mowgli DVD received Parents Choice Award, September 2012 http://www.parents-choice.org/product.cfm?product_id=30785 >

This same message was left on the biography talk page Feb. 20, 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.253.114 (talk) 20:07, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Gramophone Magazine
Just a heads-up abbut Gramophone Magazine's re-designed website. Unfortunately, most of their archives have now gone behind a paywall. But they periodically bring some out and list them on their Focus page where they are freely accessible along with a bunch of recording guides for various composers. Voceditenore (talk) 17:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * A reminder to people (though those reading this likely know), that any actual references are NOT invalid all of a sudden because you need to pay to see them. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 20:34, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
 * However, Template:Subscription required may need to be added into affected articles. Toccata quarta (talk) 20:41, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Actually, I was bemoaning the loss of the ability to use the archives for future research when writing articles, not for referencing past ones. I used to find quite a lot of useful stuff there, especially since they went back to the 1930s. Voceditenore (talk) 06:46, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Even if one is inclined and affluent enough to subscribe to The Gramophone's paywall the links will avail you naught. I'm afraid they remain invalid: the URLs are now all changed in the new dispensation. A sad loss. My own inclination is to remove the URLs from refs and leave the title, month and page numbers as is, but I know others think differently. Tim riley (talk) 19:46, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Enrique Granados infobox
This article has an infobox including nationality, occupation, 'known for' etc. What do other people think about this box? Is it appropriate? Should it be modified or deleted? Thank you.  Klein zach  01:45, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

WP Composers in the Signpost
The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Composers for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 07:59, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Charles-Valentin Alkan
I would like to bring this article up to at least GA, preferably FA, during this year, CVA's bicentenary. All comments/contributions/suggestions welcome. --Smerus (talk) 08:41, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Place of Birth in brackets
Example on Project Page overleaf has "Vytautas Miškinis (born 5 June 1954 in Vilnius)", there's a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Biographies re a recent edit that would require Vilnius moved out of bracket, counter Grove etc. style. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:32, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Vital articles
There is a discussion occuring here, regarding which music articles should be deemed vital to the Wikipedia project. Your input would be appreciated. GabeMc (talk&#124;contribs)  01:39, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Infoboxes for Bach and Stoepel
There is a proposal at Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach to add an infobox to the article. Ceoil (talk) 22:14, 21 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I also see that Robert Stoepel has been given a bio-infobox during the past few weeks. It would be interesting to have views on this. Other composers currently with boxes are all 20th century, but Stoepel is 19th century. -- Klein zach  09:42, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Chopin FA
After a discussion with User:Nihil novi over on my talk page, I've decided to finally work on the Frédéric Chopin article so we can take it up to FA status if possible. I plan to get this by a TFA date of 17 October 2014 (165th anniversary of Chopin's death). If anyone wants to help out, please do so. All are welcome to assist in this process and if anyone wants to suggest improvements, please do so on the talk page. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Aaron Robinson (composer)
Need some nice friendly help ....... Help desk MOVED TO Talk:Aaron Robinson (composer).Moxy (talk) 15:17, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Maybe for the Music project rather than here? -- Klein zach  15:32, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Discussion of potential interest
Dear fellow CM/Composer editors, You may be interested (as I was) in the debate about professors using WP for classroom assignments currently unfolding at the Education_noticeboard, since we, as a project, have had to contend with similar fallout from drive-by student editing in our composer articles. Your contributions and feedback might be salutary. Eusebeus (talk) 15:07, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Or could be better to keep our heads down and not get involved, in case UoT music staff get smart ideas.......--Smerus (talk) 16:29, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Grove Online
I need an administrator with access to Grove Online to help with a copyright issue and edit war. Is there anyone here who can take that on? Pkeets (talk) 17:35, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Manuscript images
(crossposted from WP:CM, apologies for any duplication)

I've just completed a batch upload on Commons - commons:Category:British Library musical manuscripts - for a collection of ~400 musical manuscripts (all pre-1850) sourced from the British Library. The collection is fairly patchy - it's mostly two or three pages per named composer or known copyist, as it was originally intended to be a sampler so that people could compare handwriting. (I've had this collection sitting around for months, but I was having real trouble getting the metadata together.)

Hope they're of interest! They may be quite useful when writing about the pieces, or about the composers; I uploaded a few examples some months back to help illustrate certain composers when we didn't have images of them (eg John Hilton the younger). Andrew Gray (talk) 21:46, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Adios/Sjones23
Just so everyone knows, I will be taking a temporary Wikibreak for at least 5-7 days to let off some steam and get myself reenergized. Some of the stress has got to me, so I think it's best if I should take a couple of days off. I also have final exams coming up as well. I will only be back to work on certain articles like Benjamin Britten and Frederic Chopin. Till then, adios. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:08, 30 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Just a note to say that I added Lord Sjones23 to the heading (as Adios/Lord Sjones23) to give this more visibility here (also later for the archives). I can't understand why anyone would want to revert this but someone did . Inexplicable. -- Klein zach  06:20, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * And you should know by now that modifying other people's comments when there's no reason to is verboten. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:26, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I usually ignore this kind of thing, but for the record, my edit is here. As everyone can see, I did not change Lord Sjones23's message. -- Klein zach  06:04, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Jacob Weinberg (composer) (1879-1956) Composer and concert pianist, and professor of music
I would like to creaete a new page for composer Jacob Weinberg (1879-1956) not to be confused with ANOTHER Jacob Weinberg who was a rabbi and has a Wikipedia page already. He was "Shmuel Jacob Weinberg". There was also an illustrious Rabbi and writer named Jehiel Jacob Weinberg. My guy is someone else entirely.

Jacob Weinberg was a prolific Russian-born Jewish composer who came to the US in 1924 and worked as a composer, pianist, professor of music at Hunter College and the New York College of Music (which no longer exists). He was my father's father, e.g. my paternal grandfather. He wrote the first Israeli opera, "The Pioneers" ("Hehalutz") which celebrates the growing state of Palestine which later became Israel, settled by European Jews escaping oppression. This is actually a comic opera with beautiful melodies and a love story. It was performed in concert form at Carnegie Hall twice (1946 and 1949) and previously at the NY "City Center" (when it was still called the Mecca Temple) and prior to that, twice in Jerusalem in 1925 and even in Berlin, as part of the Kulturbund where the lead was sung by Mascha Benya, an illustrious soprano who later came to the US. He composed 137 works of classical music, mostly secular but some religious, e.g. he put the Sabbath service to music in three variations, and his Sabbath works are still being sung by the chorus at Temple Emanu-el, where he is listed on their website as one of their illustrious in-house composers. He was born in Odessa and studied law, graduating from Univ. of Moscow law school in 1908, but his heart was in music, so he studied piano with many illustrious teachers at the Moscow Conservatory of Music. He spent a year in Vienna studying composition with Leshititsky. He toured Russia as a concert pianist. He returned to Odessa, his hometown, and taught at the Odessa Conservatory of Music. When the Bolsheviks rose up, he fled with his wife (Theresa Bernstein Weinberg) and my dad (Walter V. Weinberg) and they then came to NYC. He incorporated Jewish folk melodies and Arab (Yemenite) folk melodies into his classical pieces. He did not discriminate since he felt that middle-Eastern music was all connected, which it is. He was also a modern man with a great deal of energy. He wrote 3 versions of the Gettysburg Address set to music. He was proud to be an American. He also set other American pieces and speeches to music. Eleanor Roosevelt attended a performance of his opera, "The Pioneers" at a Hadassah convention in Washington DC and reportedly nodded her great delight and approval. The music is beautiful and it really holds up. In 1998, Leon Botstein, conductor and artistic director of the American Symphony Orchestra, performed one of the great arias from "The Pioneers", known as "Leah's Aria" or "Song of Songs" at Lincoln Center's Avery Fisher Hall. You can hear a recent recording on YouTube, recorded by the great soprano, Shirelle Dashevsky, Israeli opera singer. Shirelle Dashevsky and David Chernoguz have contacted me to help me produce an entire production of this amazing opera, which is available in music libraries of universities and conservatories, e.g. Juilliard, throughout the world. If you don't know this composer check out his recordings on Milken Archive for Naxos label, and other sites. He was a genius. There's a lot more to the story. I want to write his biography. I would love some collaborators to help me along. I have created a website The Jacob Weinberg Society to raise funds for the promotion, performance, and further publication of his works.

Ellen Weinberg Mausner  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emausner (talk • contribs) 21:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Reading Your first article and the links there is probably a good way to learn about the process of writing an article. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:35, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Looking at your post, I suggest that you have a look at WP:NPV and WP:WTA before creating an article. Toccata quarta (talk) 04:28, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I created a wiki link in the title of this post for possible future namespace (click on the red link above to create the article when you are ready). Ellen, if you do decide that the subject meets WP guidelines for inclusion at WP:Notability or WP:Music, and can verify your content with reliable sources (WP:V and WP:RS) I would be happy to help with format and copyediting.  Just ping me or email me through my talk page.  Good luck.  ♫ Cricket02  (talk) 12:48, 20 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Just looking at the amount of material here + this material at the Milken Archive of Jewish Music. Neither notability nor sourcing this article would be a problem, although it would be a good idea to start drafting the article in your user space first, e.g. User:Emausner/sandbox, while you get the hang of Wikipedia's mark-up, guidelines, etc. Voceditenore (talk) 14:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Infobox for Richard Wagner?
Please see the discussion here, and on the article talk page. -- Klein zach  23:30, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Alkan/Hamelin
I am hoping fairly shortly to submit Charles-Valentin Alkan for GA. The article has for a long time contained the following quote attributed to Marc-André Hamelin: "The aspect of Alkan that is most apparent when people who don't know him listen to him for the first time is that his music is difficult to play...But in a way, I wish that it did not take a formidable technique...the great musical worth of Alkan's music makes it worthwhile to master those difficulties." It would be nice to keep this quote, (if genuine), but it has no source, nor have I found one - in fact the quote appears quite widely on the net, apparently taken from the article. Can anyone by chance supply a source? Other comments on the article are of course also welcome. --Smerus (talk) 10:43, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * It's taken from the documentary Marc-André Hamelin – Supervirtuoso. Toccata quarta (talk) 10:57, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks - should be able to cite that from the YouTube version, then....--Smerus (talk) 13:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Aaaargh! The YouTube version is all in Japanese! Looks like I will have to cut the quote after all.--Smerus (talk) 18:26, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Are you sure you are looking at the right video? Parts of it are in Japanese, but Hamelin speaks in English there. Toccata quarta (talk) 18:37, 16 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I couldn't find the actual quote. I asked Marc, and he tells me (but I guess this counts as WP:OR so we can't use it): "It does sound like something I would say, but I can't begin to tell you where it would be from. Very sorry about that; I guess this means that Wikipedia won't let you use it?". ---Smerus (talk) 04:32, 17 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Part 6, 29 seconds. The Google search engine does seem to have trouble finding the page, but it can be found through "related links". Toccata quarta (talk) 08:41, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks TQ!--Smerus (talk) 09:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Alkan GA nomination
Just to revert from minor composers such as Richard Wagner...I have nominated his coeval Charles-Valentin Alkan for GA, with the medium-term hope of getting it up to FA as soon as possible and nominating it for the front page  for Alkan's own bicentennial in November. If anyone is willing to initiate the GA review I should be very grateful - and of course I look forward to any comments. --Smerus (talk) 07:51, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Quality improvement project for Chris Field (Los Angeles musician)
I've rewritten the article Chris Field (Los Angeles musician), DIFF.
 * Chris Field (Los Angeles musician)

Further suggestions for additional secondary sources would be most appreciated, at the article's talk page, at Talk:Chris Field (Los Angeles musician).

&mdash; Cirt (talk) 02:36, 17 June 2013 (UTC)