Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cornwall/Archive 2

cornish folk songs
the number of cornish folk songs is minimal at best (5), especially as the lyrics are so hard to find else where on the net. i have a small collection of songs, some in the cornish, but am hesitant about page creation having little knowlegde and bieng dyslexic. i also have very little background knowledge of the songs themselves is this a problem?. any advice about this would be gratefully accepted.Gwaytya 14:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * English ability is not a limitation on Wikipedia. Stick something up, and I'll go through and proofread it if you like.  Sounds like interesting informationMammal4 15:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Go for it! I'm sure it'll be of interest to many people and once you kick things off other people will help out and gradually fill in the gaps anyway TrevelyanD 20:20, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

i ahve placed a cornish version of The Song of the Western Men up and reformatted the page to make it slightly easier to read. i have also created a "Black and Gold" page (the song). i would eb grateful is fome one would take alook at it for me. i have had slight reservations with thsi song, as i have heard it refered to as traditional, but have also seen a note saying it is written by Will Coleman, which i cannot either proove or disprove. i have also added pages for An Awhesyth, Sweet Nightingale, The White Rose (song) and Delkiow Sivy but am unable to spellcheck the kernewek, if anyone here is able to do this i would be very grateful. thank you for your encoragement Gwaytya 17:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

right, ive put more information and a couple of links up for Black and Gold, i have no idear how to wikify it, i read the help and am still at a loss. so if some one would be so kind as to do this for me i would be very grateful. Gwaytya 12:18, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Templates
Could someone please modify the Penwith templates to be used on this project?LessHeard vanU 13:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

??Do you mean the talkpage marker?? I'll try to get on it, but its a complicated template and will need twiddling! Mammal4 13:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, both the talkpage and the membership template for a userpage. Are you not able to simply change the text and image, and then rename it? (This may indicate a) my lack of knowledge of templates, and, b)my normal method of working with Windows based applications = nick it and adapt it.)LessHeard vanU 22:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes I can nick it and adapt it, (as I did from the Beatles one originally I recall)but its quite easy to bugger up a complex template in the process! Will get on it asapMammal4 08:14, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Airbases in Cornwall
benjaminevans82 - is there any information on Wikipedia on WWII airbases in Cornwall at present? Mammal4 08:12, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There are some in Category:Military of Cornwall, though the naming of them appears inconsistent - eg some carry geographical names (eg RAF Davidstow Moor) and some naval air stations carry HMS names. DuncanHill 15:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, so plenty of work to do here also - good that we now have an expert :) Mammal4 15:58, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There are many disused/former airbases in Cornwall, such as the former RAF Predannack which operates as a emergency runway facility for RNAS Culdrose as well as an dump for ex FAA aircraft (there is at least one Sea Harrier and a Hawker Hunter there, plus several whirlybirds). Cornwall used to be a base of operations into the Bay of Biscay during WWII. I don't know if there are any definitive histories, it seems to be a case of finding who was stationed in the area and then looking at the squadron histories. I would comment that in Den Leighton's book The Battle of Britain it states that in September 1939 a flight of Gloster Gauntlets (the predecessor to the Gladiator biplane) were stationed in St. Marys, Isles of Scilly. It may be that aviation/airbases in the area could be a very interesting subject for a wikipedia article.LessHeard vanU 21:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The naming of air stations in Cornwall can be tricky as some of them have changed their name during the history. Royal Naval Air Stations are also given an HMS name which I have put in brackets. I will however try and be consistent. Next on my list of things to do is RNAS St Merryn I am however trying to cut back on the amount of time I spend on wikipedia as I do tend to get carried away. The Cornwall library service have large amount of books on this subject. It is clear that some people have spent a lot of time researching this area and I would like to get wikipedia up to speed. so far I have done RAF Davidstow Moor and RAF St Eval --Benjaminevans82 23:28, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a list of former RAF stations at WP: List of RAF stations.I presume that you have seen this list. It doesn't include Predannack, which, I suppose was Naval.
 * Have you checked out Devon and Cornwall airfields in the Second World War / Graham Smith

Newbury, Berkshire: Countryside Books, 2000. - 288p.: ill., map, ports. - 21cm. [Bibl., Index, Series] p.282-283 index ISBN: 1-85306-632-X (pbk.)
 * === Vernon White (talk)  23:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Predannack was RAF Coastal Command, flying Bristol Beaufighters amongst others. I had an autobiograhy (long gone, I'm afraid) of some Squadron Commander who was stationed there. First aeroplane to land at Culdrose/HMS Seahawk was a Spit/Seafire pilot making an emergency landing when he couldn't get into Predannack. Unfortunately, much of my information is derived from conversation and lots of little snippets from books, etc. Good for pub quizzes but not for encyclopedia.LessHeard vanU 00:28, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

templates
have created a template here to put on the talk pages of articles that fall within the scope of the project. Its basically ripped off from the penwith project one as i don't have a lot of time today to work on this - any alterations/changes are welcome Mammal4 11:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Organising the work
reccommend that we split up the work into categories to make it easier to deal with and work out what needs to be done. I suggest something like geography, culture, history, industry, sport, transport? any thoughts? Mammal4 13:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Be bold and set it up, any changes/additions can then be discussed and a concensus arrived at - in the meantime there is a working model to be used.LessHeard vanU 13:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Geography - Split up the List of places in Cornwall into District Council areas. Work through this list, collaboratively, developing stub pages for any places that have anything to say about them - add the linked placenames to te District Council Area WP Page. === Vernon White (talk)  16:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Have added a few ideas to the todo section Mammal4 09:05, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Biography - identify names of those notable people who were born in or died in Cornwall or whose residence in Cornwall had some notable effect from ODNB (online access available free of charge to members of Cornwall County Library). === Vernon White (talk)  16:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Other WikiProject
Just so you know there is another WikiProject covering part of cornwall. That is WikiProject geography of Penwith, Cornwall. In a strange twist of fate, wouldn't this be a sub-project of that or would it be the other way round? It is an idea (IMO) to mention this WikiProject on their page. Simply south 21:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes I know - I set up both of them :) The scope of the Penwith project is mostly geography, whereas I'm hoping this one will cover all things Cornish (culture and traditions etc) so it has a much broader mandate.  I was hoping that in time the Penwith project could be folded into this one as a sub-project but we'll see how successful we are here first   take care Mammal4 08:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Geology
DuncanHill - I see you've put geology down as a specialty - would you be able to write a short paragraph for each district as there is nothing there at present. I also note that the link to main article geology of Cornwall on the cornwall page is still a red link - there must be loads to write about this surely? thanks Mammal4 09:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There must also be scope for the role of Cornish Geologist in increasing our understanding of the formation of the earth's crust and denying the historicity of the Book of Genesis.

=== Vernon White (talk)  10:25, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There's books to write on the Geology of Cornwall - and on Cornwall's rôle in the development of geology as a science- have started reading up and hope to have some contributions soon. Will concentrate for the time being on at least doing an overview of the county before taking it down to district level. DuncanHill 14:51, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Botany
At present the Cornwall site has a section: Ecology Cornwall has varied habitats including terrestrial and marine ecosystems. One of the lower plant forms in decline locally is the Reindeer lichen, which species has been made a priority for protection under the national UK Biodiversity Action Plan.

I hope that this can be significantly expanded to include the huge variety of plant species growing in Cornwall and the range of habitats, including horticultural triumphs and ancient exotic trees. === Vernon White (talk)  09:33, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Cornish Town and Village info boxes
Hi, just wondering what the opinion is of the WikiProject Cornwall members regarding the ongoing dispute over the content of Cornwall town/village info boxes ? Cornwall is widely regarded as one of six Celtic nations but apparently the people of Cornwall do not get any say in the design of the info box appearing on Cornish related pages ! please see:- Gulval 21:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Talk Cornwall
 * Template:Infobox CornishTown


 * The situation here is clear. Template:Infobox England place is the agreed infobox for towns and villages in England. There are similar infoboxes for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. These are the only home nations recognised by the UK government. Cornwall is in one of these, England. Some object to the flag in the infobox, and personally, I think it is superfluous. The correct approach for those who want it removed is to propose its removal on Template talk:Infobox England place. The wrong approach is to create a Cornish fork of the template as a backdoor way of removing the flag. Alan Pascoe 23:24, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I would suggest that any flag is superfluous on the Cornish town/village infoboxes. There is an alternative 'Template:Infobox CornishTown' available, which is identical to the 'Template:England place infobox' except without the flag, but I see you have already nominated this for deletion. Cornwall is widely recognised as one of six Celtic nations, a Duchy, as well as a county. A 2004 Morgan Stanley survey indicated that 44% of Cornish inhabitants view themselves as Cornish (i.e. not English or British) and the Cornish were recently recognised on the 2001 national census as a national minority with their own census code of '06' allocated for this purpose. see;-
 * Templates for deletion - Template:Infobox CornishTown Gulval 23:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * There is no need for a Cornish fork of Template:Infobox England place. If you object to the flag, you can raise the matter on the talk page there. Alan Pascoe 23:32, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Proposed deletions
There are currently a couple of proposed deletions affecting Cornwall-related subjects, namely Dalla and Category:Military of Cornwall

Discussions at: DuncanHill 00:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Dalla
 * Categories for deletion/Log/2006 December 3


 * Articles for deletion/Dalla - no consensus reached - additional material and subsidiary article now in place. Vernon White  . . . Talk

Websites of political individuals
Hello :-)

This may or may not be the correct place to put this but I would like to ask if we could keep links to individual councillors websites etc out of Cornwalls Wiki information although links to town councils etc are great. For example I live in Hayle. On the wiki page there is a direct link to John Bennetts site,. I, along with many others, object to many of his viewpoints and behaviour yet it is sat on the wiki page as if it represents the people of Hayle or is important to the people of Hayle. Only a viewpoint I know but it does annoy me somewhat! thanks for your time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheKingofCats (talk • contribs) 19:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC).


 * I would suggest that a link to an individual's website would probably be appropriate in an article about that individual, but not in an article about eg the council of which that individual is a member (unless it is cited as a reference). It's a good point, would be good if we can agree a common approach accross Cornwall articles. DuncanHill 20:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * In general I feel that we should link to personal websites very sparingly even when they are eponymous. Abtract 00:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think we should be very cautious regarding websites for individual elected officials, simply as they are not permanent - every time there is a local election there would be a slew of sites to delete and add. Links to Officers (Town Clerk, etc) are fine as they are not tied to individuals.LessHeard vanU 20:35, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think any current Chief Executive of a Local Authority is called "Town Clerk". The job title went out in the 1970s, I think.  I think succession tables for both elected members holding specific offices and senior appointed officials are valuable . . . probably more valuable than the Succession table of a lot of baronetcies! If we are linking to the websites of elected politicians, then some criteria might be applied . . but surely not that some Wikpedian disagrees with their views. I don't agree with everything that Bert Biscoe says but would like to see how many irons he has in the Cornish pie (but in English, I'm monoglotly afraid]. === Vernon White  (talk)  22:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If Bert Biscoe is notable then he should have his own article, or perhaps a section of the affiliated political party - but his notability is likely to be regarding the expression of his views, and not the locality from which he (or they) are produced - they are his opinions, not the area he represents, and thus a link to him from the area he represents (as an elected official) is not justified. He could be linked from a links section, and/or as a local person of note.LessHeard vanU 23:42, 16 December 2006 (UTC) (edit after clicking 'Bert Biscoe' link from Vernon Whites comment) What is the point of that? There are no speakers of Cornish that aren't multilingual, and I would contend that in no case is Cornish more than a second language - one that is chosen to be used, rather than required, at that. I note that there is no English Wiki equivalent page - I'm not sure if Wiki's server resources should be used for an article that could be written in another language which all speakers of Cornish also speak.LessHeard vanU 00:21, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * What's the point of a Cornish language wikipedia? I guess the point is, enough people wanted it, so they made it happen! I do wish Bert Biscoe would learn the difference between "its" and "it's" tho'.DuncanHill 00:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure that town councils have Town Clerks, certainly Parish Councils have Parish Clerks, and a Town Council is just a glorified Parish Council.DuncanHill 00:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Having just visited http://www.hayletowncouncil.net I can confirm that Hayle Town Council does indeed have a Town Clerk. DuncanHill 00:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * For the record - A town council is a Minor Local Authority as is a parish council - A Town Council however sometimes can exceed the precept (Council tax percentage) of principal local authorities (IE District or County Councils). Normally town councils are successor authorities to former (prior to 1972)) borough councils or Urban Districts.  Town Clerks are de facto chief executives of the councils they work for however there correct titles are principal officer or responsible officer.  At last, being a town councillor for 10 years may have provided some use.  Reedgunner 09:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Suggestions
For the town of Penryn, could contact the Rotary club http://www.penrynrotary.co.uk/html/about_penryn.html to get permission to copy of their excellent history. PadawanMD 18:14, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Category query
What would be the appropriate Cornish cat for eg the Wycliffe books/TV series, Doc Martin etc?DuncanHill 20:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * From your edit summary I thought this was going to be about the feline breed Cornish Rex (which certainly should be tagged)! LessHeard vanU 23:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Cornish Wikipedia
Following Vernon White's comments re Bert Biscoe I navigated to the Cornish Wikipedia. To be honest it is pretty inactive (which I commented upon, saying that Wikipedia Foundations servers could be put to better use - but requested replies went to my talkpage rather than here) but I invited folk to visit this and Geograph of Penwith Projects. I also asked if there were any articles there that could be translated and brought here. I am personally uncertain that having a Wiki in a language understood by a few thousand and spoken/written fluently by a few hundred (and a second language at best) is good use of Wikipedia Foundations resources, but if it exists I think this project should have a link and even a translated index to the sites content. It would need to be done by a Cornish Wikipedia contributor or someone here who speaks Cornish. LessHeard vanU 01:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as I know an inactive wiki is not misusing the resources in any sense. There are a lot of smaller wikis around and the number of speakers and/or contributors is not likely to affect whether or not those wikis should exist or not. A few hundred speakers could very well form a great community having a lot of fun. If they don't contribute here on Wikipedia, where instead would they use their language on-line? A link index could be an important resource, of course. If there are interwiki links to the English Wikipedia in the Cornish articles, there is probably no need for a Cornish contributor to produce it.
 * / Mats Halldin (talk) 19:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
 * All modern day speakers of Cornish are multilingual, and no Cornish speaker uses it as a first language. They could as easily contribute to the English language Wikipedia, and have fun doing so with like minded folk on, say, the Cornwall Project. The Cornish Language Wikipedia self defines itself as limited in scope; it deals with a narrow scope of subjects and in a manner that only a few are able to comprehend. That said, I admit my comments about a "misuse of wiki resources" was wrong.
 * I believe there are Cornish language websites - and I don't believe that Wikipedia should be a vehicle for people to faciliate their lifestyle choices.LessHeard vanU 20:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Camborne - back to move
Can someone tell me what is wrong with moving


 * Camborne to Camborne, Cornwall
 * Cambourne to Cambourne, Cambridgeshire

in order to distinguish between the two? Simply south 18:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It would create a lot of redirects . How much of a problem is it? I've just looked over the 'what links here' for Camborne and couldn't see any misdirected links - will lok over Cambourne too to see what's goin on there. DuncanHill 19:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, have also checked the 'what links here' for Cambourne, found one misdirected link, which I have fixed. There is already a Cambourne, Cambridgeshire page which is a redirect to Cambourne DuncanHill 19:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thats from the move I did 3 months back but got reverted by Necrothesp. The other to Camborne, Cornwall also got reverted. Simply south 20:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Location map requests
On Requested and orphan maps someone have requested a location map for South Crofty. I brought the request up on the Graphic Lab but there is a need for someone with knowledge of the exact location of South Crofty. So, if you can help, please drop by and supply the information needed. If you feel other location maps related to Cornwall are needed, feel free to bring those requests to the Lab (preferably supplying some information about the locations).

/ Mats Halldin (talk) 18:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 21:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Flying visit
Hope I have been useful rather than "What just happened?". :) I noticed this wiki project's talk template and applied it to a Cornish page.  Then I noticed a lack:  There was no category to group articles within the project, so I created one and added it to the template.  About 500 articles are now grouped into that category, which I felt might help you guys.

I added the name of the template and the name of the category to the project page kn the correct place so all can reference it.

A little more needs to be done for the category - it needs to be a sub category of one of the wikiproject categories. Since I'm not hugely sure which one I thought I had probably meddled enough. I hope I've been useful for you though. If I had any Cornish connections or knowledge I'd join you and edit some actual articles! Fiddle Faddle 14:55, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Good work :) DuncanHill 16:54, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And found the category to put the categhory in! Category:WikiProject UK geography.  Glad I could help Fiddle Faddle 17:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Camborne School of Mines In Conish
Does any one write Cornish? I would like it if some one could check that I have written Camborne School of Mines In Conish correctly? Am I right in writing is as follows: Hwelyow Skol Kammbronn?

Thanks for your help Cheveney 19:07, 16 January 2007 (UTC) - 	:I would suggest going to the CSM website (try a google search for the addy). Most Cornish institutions have a translation of their title - usually quite prominent. LessHeard vanU 20:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC) ps. Yes, this means I don't speak Cornish...

hwelyow = mines, Kammbronn = Camborne and skol = school according to this website... http://www.cornish-language.org/English/Dictionary.asp?view=A Teapotgeorge 21:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Music in Cornwall
The music in Cornwall page was seriously slender in some areas, and didnt reflect recent scholarship. I'm going to upgrade it as I get the time. All contributions welcome. Crowdercref 00:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Wierd map thing
the Image has stopped displaying in the info boxes on my computer (see Penzance, St Buryan etc) - Is anyone else seeing this, or is it just my computer? Mammal4 10:33, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry mammals seems to be fine on mine Reedgunner 10:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

No problems for me either..... TrevelyanD 12:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

If you are using Firefox as your browser go to Tools...Options..Content and check the load images automaticly box....I presume Internet explorer will have something similar? Teapotgeorge 13:55, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It works in Explorer, but not in Firefox so must be a browser problem. The load images automatically box thing didn't help.  Wierd that it happened all of a sudden...Mammal4 14:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Push Penzance to Good Article status
I propose a mini-collaboration to try and get the Penzance Good article status, a sort of concerted push to try and address all of the issues affecting the quality of this article. There has been some discussion about this on the page itself which I have moved below. I asked one of the editors who reviews GAs to have a look at the page and he has made a list of suggestions of what would help Penzance pass the GA exam!Mammal4 09:53, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Ganymead's suggestions
Mammal4 requested that I look over this article. Here are my suggestions:

Ok, wow. That's a list! Please don't think I'm being mean here, this article is a good start, but I think there's a good deal more that should be done. I hope this is helpful. I haven't copyedited as I forsee that there may be much work done on this article. Should you need a copyedit then, I'll be more than happy to do it. Should you need clarification on any points feel free to ask. Cheers! *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 20:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * First off, I don't think this article would pass GA yet. It still really needs some work.
 * A great deal of the article remains uncited. GA now requires cites and FAC now usually requires pretty much everything to be cited. The items that are cited, I'm not sure if the refererences are correctly listed. Check WP:CITE for that.
 * The population listed in the intro should be cited and include a date for that number.
 * The intro itself is in need of an expansion. It should summarize the article.
 * In Early history, the lone sentence on Iron Age settlement should be expanded. What evidence exists?
 * The section on the origins of the name Penzance should probably be brokwn off into a section on Etymology.
 * There is not much information on the history between the Iron Age and 1322.
 * The first mention of the city in 1322 - where is this mentioned?
 * Other than mention of the pirate raids, is there much medievel history about the town?
 * Some more info on the Spanish raid would be interesting rather than providing an external link.
 * Why was the religious activity centered in Madron? Did Penzance not have a church of its own?
 * I think the quote from Arnold Boscowitz is rather useless. I see no point in quoting a 19th century writer about an 18th century event unless he had firsthand knowledge. Rather describe how the town was affected.
 * In the next paragraph, again, population numbers should ALWAYS be cited.
 * The sentence on Lord Nelson is interesting, but it just seems to be lonely...
 * The next two sections could be combined into a section on Mining.
 * There is nothing on modern history.
 * Overall, the history section appears to be just highlights and interesting tidbits rather than a full history. Definitely this sections should be greatly expanded.
 * There is no section on geography.
 * Twinning can be moved towards the end of the article.
 * Transport section should be cited.
 * Economy should also be expanded and cited.
 * The section on the built environment should be expanded and included under a section called Cityscape. The natural environment section would belong under Geography.
 * Points of interest should be written in prose and should be placed in a tourism section under Culture.
 * Are there any other cultural activities in Penzance besides festivals? Performing arts? Media? These and the Sports section should be included under culture.
 * There should be a section on Education.
 * Thanks, that is very comprehensive. Would it be right to say that not everything needs addressing (say one or two of the points) to make it good enough. An example would be the history between the abandonment of the iron age settlements and 1322; there is (for all intents and purposes) nothing to write about! The adjoining towns were the centres of population, which partly answers the point about Madron church, and history is silent about the area (oral history would have been in Cornish, which has not survived the millenia).
 * If there is nothing to be added to a point you have commented upon then it needs either removing completely (my preferred option) or have it so noted.
 * Thanks again, that really was helpful. LessHeard vanU 21:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For sections of the history where little happened, it should be noted in the history so that it doesn't seem like they are being skipped over. *Exeunt* Ganymead | Dialogue? 23:42, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Attempt to summarise what needs doing

 * New sections
 * Etymology
 * Geography (see St Buryan or Chew Valleyfor ideas
 * A more comprehensive lead section summarising the article would also be a good idea
 * Referencing - this shouldn't be too much of a problem as there should be plenty of books etc to check. Some could be done quite easily through google (transport for example)
 * Rebuild History section
 * Merge short choppy sections and lone facts into established sections
 * Expansion of some sections - there is much more to be said in sport for example

My preferred section structure would be: * 1 Geography * 2 Etymology * 3 History o 3.1 Early Neolithic Period o 3.2 Bronze and Iron Ages o 3.3 Middle Ages o 3.4 Tudor and Stuart period o 3.5 Industrial revolution o 3.6 Twentieth century * 4 Religion o 4.1 C of E         o 4.2 Non-conformist * 5 Education * 6 Culture o 6.1 Media o 6.2 Art * 7 Economy * 8 Government and politics * 9 Transport * 10 Amenities * 11 External links * 12 References

which is how I've set out St Buryan. (which is already GA status)So far on the Penzance article we have

* 1 History o 1.1 Early history o 1.2 The Spanish Raid of 1595 o 1.3 Penzance as a town since 1614 o 1.4 Sir Humphry Davy o 1.5 Mining * 2 Twinning * 3 Transport * 4 Politics and government * 5 Economy * 6 Environment o 6.1 Built environment o 6.2 Natural Environment * 7 Places of interest * 8 Culture * 9 Notable residents past and present * 10 Sport * 11 See also * 12 References * 13 External links

I really feel that the history section would benifit from being organised into eras rather than by important events that have occurred in the town.

Also - maybe mining should be a subsection of Economy rather than History? Mammal4 10:00, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Should Davy be moved into notable residents, or stay in the history section?Mammal4 10:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * We could do with some more pictures here too - I think I have some of MJ Street and Chapel street somewhere, but some of the dry dock area would be niuce too Mammal4 11:32, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with your proposed structure, particularly if it is similar to St. Buryan (I suppose all structures within the project should resemble each other as far as possible). I would suggest that Religion should be a subsection of History, as the establishment and growth of the two subjects are of a historical nature. Also the particular feast days and celebrations which form part of Pz's culture may be included under Religion, with the Culture section referring to them and going on to current examples. LessHeard vanU 22:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The above means replacing Education with Culture in the list. In fact I think Education should be lower in the list, as it is less Penzance specific than Economy, Govt etc or even transport. The only Penzance specific parts of Education are the names of establishments, the various schools and colleges not being any different to counterparts all over the country. LessHeard vanU 22:31, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I will work on the transport section over the next week or so to add the references. I will also put some relevant stuff into the history section, such as the development of fish and farming traffic following the opening of the railway, and the later development of tourism by the GWR. Geof Sheppard 08:16, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well volounterred. I've added a couple of refs for the airport stuff, but I think links to the relevent timetables for rail and bus would be a good idea.  The railway was originally meant to extend out to St Just with a spur at St Buryan but the plans were shelved due to cost. - I think this is worth mentionning, but i don't have any references for it, just local knowledgeMammal4 09:17, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've rewritten the transport section and also replaced the Industrial revolution section of the History with sections for the 19th and 20th centuries. They could do with someone reading them through to see that they flow properly, and there are still lots of points that need fleshing out (or removing!). I have left a few redlinks for me to deal with, bit if someone wants to deal with Trevose Head, be my guest - it is redlinked from seven pages now. Geof Sheppard 08:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a good job - well done! I will try and copyedit this at the weekend - I think it almost qualifies for hiving off into an article called History of Penzance and just having a summary on the main page but we would need to 'finish' the section first properly before that is done in order to know what to summariseMammal4 09:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Parliamentary constituencies in Cornwall
Greetings from the WikiProject UK Parliament constituencies. I notice a constituency article has been tagged by your project. I have been working on a series about the Parliamentary representation of the different historic counties which should (hopefully) provide a complete list of current and historic constituencies, with links to existing articles for them. When I do the Cornwall article I will include it in the Cornwall category so you can identify the other Cornish seats for your project. --Gary J 22:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I am still working on the article but the basic list is finished. See Parliamentary representation from Cornwall. --Gary J 14:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this, Gary J! Looks like there are a lot of Redlinks for individual MPs to deal with.

=== Vernon White (talk)  08:27, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

The number of constituencies which do not yet have some sort of article is going down. However I anticipate we will have all the constituency articles created in the next few months, although there will still be a lot of detail to fill in. As there is also an aim in the longer term, to do an article for each MP, we have plenty to keep us occupied. --Gary J 11:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

List of topics related to Cornwall
Hi.

I've just joined you here at this project! Is this page: List of topics related to Cornwall an up-to-date list? If so it could be used as the basis for a useful tool for the project: a special related changes page. This page would then display any articles that have been recently changed that relate to Cornwall: useful if you want to know what other users are doing, also for vandal patrol!

This is how it works. If you find it worthwhile it can be added to the project main page. Special:Recentchangeslinked/List of topics related to Cornwall.

Mdcollins1984 16:20, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Also this may be useful: Special:Recentchangeslinked/List of notable residents of Cornwall Mdcollins1984 23:52, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

New infoboxes
A new infobox has been developed for use on UK places articles. If you have any concerns or appraisals, please make them at Template talk:Infobox UK place. Regards, Jhamez84 02:14, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Heritage sites
I've been watching the pages on English Heritage-owned properties in Cornwall since the minor scuffle over the 'controversy' text. I notice that User:Av151 has kindly added text relating to the transfer of responsibility for some sites to the Cornwall Heritage Trust. While I do not object to the text which has been added, for it seems neutral enough, it is once again the case that on some of the relvant articles, which are stubs, the very recent history takes up a majority of the text.

Many heritage sites have upwards of a thousand years of history: surely there must be more to write about them. Please consider this a request for expansion. If nobody is interested, I'd gladly do it myself, just tell me where to find the information. The articles are Trethevy Quoit, King Doniert's Stone, St Breock Downs Monolith, Tregiffian Burial Chamber, The Hurlers (stone circles) and Dupath Well. Oh, and Cornwall Heritage Trust should probably be created. — mholland 12:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Infobox flag straw poll
Hello fellow editors. A straw poll has opened today (27th March 2007) regarding the use of flags on the United Kingdom place infoboxes. There are several potential options to use, and would like as many contrubutors to vote on which we should decide upon. The straw poll is found here. If joining the debate, please keep a cool head and remain civil. We look forward to seeing you there. Jhamez84 11:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

People from Categories
A discussion has been opened at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London about upmerging local area categories for People from... into current local government boundaries only. This could have implications across the whole of England if carried through. Your are invited to join the discussion. The proposer is planning a massive merge by 22nd June if no objections are received. --Regan123 11:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

South West Coast Path
There is a proposal that the South West Coast Path article should be rewritten. At present it is largely long lists of towns, villages, and places of interest. If you can help turn these lists into prose, could you join in at Talk:South West Coast Path. Thanks. Geof Sheppard 07:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Flags (Copied from Talk:Cornwall)
There have been a large number of Cornwall articles which carry large St Pirans flags and other huge cornish symbols - I think they are not needed and are just placed their by editors with a flag fetish - I Have been removing them however what do other users think?? - I will of course bow to the majority view?

Discussion got started over The Song of the Western Men and the two SVG flags on it in lieu of any other imagery. 68.39.174.238 02:56, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Could you stick up a couple of links to relevant Cornish articles so that we could see the problem in context? TrevelyanD 19:19, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

UK nationality proposals on wikipedia
(quoting) A rather interesting proposed innovation in guidelines is taking place at Manual of Style (United Kingdom-related articles) and Wikipedia Talk:Manual of Style (United Kingdom-related articles). Essentially, it is an attempt to prescribe that all Scottish, English, Welsh and Northern Irish people be called "British" in all articles concerning people from the United Kingdom. Essentially, if one finds themselves trying to retain "Sir Thomas Sean Connery (born August 25, 1930) is an Academy Award-winning Scottish actor and producer " instead of "Sir Thomas Sean Connery (born August 25, 1930) is an Academy Award-winning British actor and producer", the person pushing the latter will be able to quote the British only guidelines at you. If you support or oppose this innovation, or if you have any thoughts, you should go to the talk page. (end quote) --MacRusgail 14:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Retention of Swanky beer article
Please help!!

The article regarding Swanky beer has been nominated for deletion.

Please support the retention of this article! It is an article within this Wikiproject.

Swanky beer is brewed for each Cornish Festival in South Australia's Copper Coast region.

I am concerned that if the article is deleted, we lose an article which talks about something uniquely Cornish!

Thanks for your support!

Regards

Fitzpatrickjm 10:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Carn Brea content dispute
There is an ongoing content dispute at Carn Brea, details there and on its talk page. DuncanHill 17:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Cornish bards
Could someone have a look at the new contributions of ? They look of interest, but apart from Mick Paynter (whose article I've been able to expand from WMN coverage) they're going to be hard-pressed to assert notability without third-party sources. Gordonofcartoon 11:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as we are concerned, surely, all bards of the Gorseth are "notable". It's not a subscription organisation: some Bards are important not just to Cornwall but globally. We need to find reliable sources for their notability. There's a list of Bards and bardic names by decade at 1950s 1950s, substitute decade number 6 and 7 in "1950". Julyan Holmes,Tony Snell, Robert Walling and Mick Paynter are the WP articles in question. Vernon White -  TALK PAGE  13:39, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Cornish Place-names article
Cornish Place-names

It is proposed to start a WP article to link place-name articles such as Fore Street, Churchtown, Cornwall, Playing Place, High Cross. . ., for names that are found more frequently in Cornwall than elsewhere in the United Kingdom.

The article should not pretend to explain the meaning or etymology of Cornish Place-names derived from the Celtic Cornish language (That is a separate and more complex article, I think). However it is hoped to point to reliable resources for understanding the toponymic nature of Cornwall. One of these is Cornovia: An Index to the Historical Place Names of Cornwall at http://cornovia.org.uk/ihpnc/c.html (A Cornish Source-Book website).

The introduction on this site includes some caveats on previous writers and a select list of place-name elements. Another source is: Padel, O J (1988) A Popular Dictionary of Cornish Place-Names; Alison Hodge -now out-of-print but present in many branches of Cornwall Public Libraries, according to the OPAC: http://library.cornwall.gov.uk/TalisPrism/

It would be good if, in addition to List of Cornish saints there was a list of Saints who gave their names to places (or vice versa).


 * If you plan to do this, perhaps rather than a list, a brief history (if known) could accompany each. For example "Fore Street" is named due to x and y. Towns with Fore Street include Helston, Camborne, Penzance etc...Also you need to be sure that they are more frequent in Cornwall than else where - why is this? You're cited refs should help with this. Perhaps Common place-names in Cornwall or Common street-names in Cornwall might be more appropriate page title. Just some thoughts, I'd be happy to read through what you do - it does sound an interesting article. –MDCollins (talk) 10:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I recall that Fore Street is a common appellation in County Durham. Is there anything specifically for Cornwall like Gelling and Cole's Landscape of place names? Crococolana 21:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * FORE STREET A searches on Google and a search on www.streetmap.co.uk "fore street" reveal a preponderance of West Country streets, named "Fore Street". The only one in the North West was in Hexham. Perhaps the popular name for the main street of a town or village was "Fore Street", instead of the official name, such as "Victoria Road". The books on Cornish place-names are mostly about Cornish-language-derived place-names, some of which have a variety of contending etymologies!  Vernon White  . . . Talk 15:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Possible Categories:
Your views, please. ___ Vernon White  '''. . . Talk''' 22:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: Haldreyn
Haldreyn: Cornish poet, linguist and painter. Born 1937. He was an original member of Kesva an Taves Kernewek. His état-civil is William Morris . . . views, please. . . Vernon White  '''. . . Talk''' 08:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Falmouth, Cornwall
I have created a new category Falmouth, Cornwall and am adding relevant articles to it. I have also added Miss Susan Gay's Falmouth chronology which goes up to 1901 and includes some charming comments. I do not know how accurate Miss Gay's time-line is. === Vernon White  '''. . . Talk''' 21:06, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Articles on notable families
I have added the following to Wikipedia talk:Notability (people)

This guide-line does not cover notable families. Two articles, to which I have contributed, have been recently challenged on Notability.

A family can be notable in a different way from an individual. As ODNB has recognised, one cannot show how influential a family is in an article focussed on only one of its members. This influence can continue over several generations, for instance, through a family-controlled company or through the members who follow one profession, e.g. physicians. A family can also have a sudden burst of extremely capable siblings and cousins. Perhaps some guide-lines could be erected, to prevent vainglorious genealogies masquerading as notables but to provide a valuable links between individual biographies.

The families threatened with deletion were/are: Fox family of Falmouth and Fry family (chocolate) (No Cornish connection). Clearly families of many generations (some always calling their firstborne male by the same name) have been influential in Cornwall's history. Do you have any views on the Notability criteria of families, please? Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 22:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Newquay
The followoing link:"Virtual Newquay" is being reintroduced and cited as a reference which is not the case. Members Tinminer and Merikernow have removed it in the past, but it keeps being reintroduced for commercial reasons, what do other users think??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Int980 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

WHAT HAS HAPPENED?
My caps lock got stuck but now i have your attention, what happened to WikiProject geography of Penwith, Cornwall? Simply south 17:21, 27 October 2007 (UTC)