Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 15

Categorisation
This one is a bit interesting. Our friend the New Zealand IP added, and then got reverted, that Hansie Cronje is an "Irish cricketer", since he played three games for Ireland in the 1997 Benson & Hedges Cup   While this is true, and it would be good to have a category with all the players who have played cricket for Ireland, the Irish cricketers cat feeds into Irish sportspeople, so it shouldn't really be there. This is also an issue with the other categories which feed into Sportspeople of a country or a country, such as Category:Western Australia cricketers (which at present contains Damien Martyn, who was born in the Northern Territory...). However, I'm also a bit reluctant to rename the categories to, say, Category:Cricketers who have played for Western Australia although this is more correct...thoughts? Or am I just seeing a problem where there is none? Sam Vimes 22:14, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What about all the English county categories like say Category:Surrey cricketers which include lots of Australians and others? I'd say it's not a problem to leave as is.


 * I note also that there is another level of categorisation for Sport in Western Australia as follows:
 * For Western Australia:
 * Category:Western Australia cricketers
 * Category:Sportspeople of Western Australia
 * Category:Sport in Western Australia
 * Category:People of Western Australia
 * For Surrey:
 * Category:Surrey cricketers
 * Category:Sport in Surrey

Ian &equiv; talk 02:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Agree with Ian. The logic of changing everything might be that we end up with a category called "Milanese cricketers" just to hold Ted Dexter. But in parallel somewhere along the line there is probably some tidying up to be done about cricket team names. English counties are all Xxx County Cricket Club; Australian state teams are under their present names, which is confusing if you're writing about old players; New Zealanders have cricket associations, but these don't seem to have pages of their own yet (?) and I'm even more confused by South African, Indian and other domestic teams, many of which have changed names substantially over the years. Is there a policy guide somewhere? And should we be creating pages called Xxx cricket team that would redirect people to the correct pages? Johnlp 10:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Redirects are good, and cheap. I think the general policy is that we use the most common name that doesn't cause confusion - that means we can't use plain Warwickshire, which undoubtably is the most common name, since that article is rightly occupied by the county of Warwickshire - so we use the full name instead (a variant would be to use Warwickshire Bears, which I'm sure the club members would argue vociferously against). Sam Vimes 10:32, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

We do have a list of current first-class cricket teams (which isn't up to FL status yet, but which probably should be worked up to be one), jguk 13:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, agreed that's a good place to start. But I reckon we also need some "background" work to tie in historical (and historic) names so that we can write that "Donald Bradman played for South Australia cricket team" or some such, and not that "Donald Bradman played for West End Redbacks", or whatever name is the current one. Johnlp 15:51, 24 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Nothing wrong with pipelinking? I.e. writing South Australia . Or do you mean for teams where this is slightly less known, such as the South African ones (where the old teams like Free State, Gauteng (formerly Transvaal) and Eastern Cape continue to exist, but play in a division below), or Indian ones, where Bihar has turned into Jharkhand, or Pakistani ones, which is a hornet's nest that could do with decent research! Sam Vimes 00:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to think of this not just as a writer but also as a potential user of this information. So I think there has to be some way of tracking the continuities and the discontinuities of teams and of answering simple questions that might be asked by someone referring to an encyclopedia, such as "What is the state cricket team of South Australia?" or "Which teams did Donald Bradman play for?" Pipelinking can do some of it, but only some: I suspect we ought to have a page called "South Australia (or South Australian) cricket team" which may redirect in large part to a "Southern Redbacks" page, or even a "West End Redbacks" page, but which also has information about the various names cricket teams representing that part of the world have traded under over the years. Johnlp 01:08, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Articles for deletion
I've nominated List of Bangladeshi cricketers, List of New Zealand cricketers and List of cricketers from Sri Lanka for deletion. Follow the links on the AfD template on each to see justification and to vote if you wish. -- Ian &equiv; talk 16:34, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Category:Cricket delivery
has been listed for speedy renaming (to deliveries). If anyone has any opinions, voice them at Categories for deletion/Speedy Sam Vimes 00:13, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Deliveries sounds odd, like a birth of a child. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  08:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Collaboration of the fornight Revival?
Its been awhile since it was last active. It seems that everybody has forgotten about it! Wanna to start it again?  Da Gizza  Chat (c) 09:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I could do with some help on West Indian cricket team. I'm trying to get it (slowly) up to FA status and am copying the format of the Arsenal F.C. article to do so. Once we have one national team page as a FA, we should be able to get the others to follow. Also, we ought to get the basics, like the team pages and the main History of cricket up to scratch. We should also look at improving and referencing up the cricket page itself, jguk 09:58, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Google
I did some googling to see where the cricket articles appear in google. While most of the Indian articles appear at the top or very near, Syed Kirmani does not appear at all.Could it be because the string 'Syed Kirmani' didn't appear (till a edit yesterday) anywhere in the article except in the title and the infobox ? Kim Hughes is another who does badly in google.

Does the position of the name in the text influence google - ie, will the article do better if the name is mentioned at the top of the article instead of just external links ? Tintin 14:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I can't answer your question, but I must admit I am pleased that for some cricketers our article now outranks Cricinfo:) jguk 18:11, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Eddie Barlow
He died today. Can someone please expand the article. Tintin Talk 15:56, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Thanks jguk. Tintin Talk 19:59, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

List of cricket terms
Even though it is a featured list, the page is now 62 kilobytes long. Is it time to split the page up?  Da Gizza  Chat (c) 02:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


 * No - lists can be as long as you like (the 32-k rule of thumb foes not apply). In any event, how would you split it? -- ALoan (Talk) 00:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/2005 Ashes series/archive1
FYI, I have nominated our article on the 2005 Ashes series on WP:FAC. Please feel free to add constructive comments or lend your support, jguk 12:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Throwing
When researching my additions to the Col Egar article, I was surprised that there is no article on the time-dishonoured practice of chucking. As it has been controversial throughout the history of cricket, I thought that there would be a significant article. Should this be add to the wish lost? "Why don't I have a go?" you say. Perhaps one day, but I've got other priorities now. Anyone else want to try? MulgaBill 02:39, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * We do have List of international cricketers called for throwing, but agree we need a separate article. -- Ian &equiv; talk 02:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Added some more examples in List of international cricketers called for throwing, as well as a bit for bowlers being banned for throwing - Shabbir, Kirtley, and Akhtar(it was brief and overturned). Could people please take a look at the Ross Emerson page that I created? I think Emerson is a very bad umpire, and perhaps I have allowed this to bring POV to the article. The only notable things I can remember about him are his calling of Muttiah Muralitharan and his not referring Mahela Jayawardene's run-out to the 3rd umpire and incorrectly declaring him to be not out.Cheers Blnguyen 23:40, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Templates
We have discussed these issues before, and it has become a nuisance again.

1. Template:Infobox Cricketer contains the number of overs and not balls. For many cricketers who have played in the seventies, the number of overs bowled is not available. ( How do you add them up ? What is the sum of 1.5 6 ball overs and 1.5 8 ball overs - 3 or 4 ? )

2. Template:Infobox_Cricketer (Career) has, for some reason, 4 WI for List A. Not only is this strange because everywhere else it is 5 WI, it also leads to editing errors.

Viv Richards took 4 wickets four times and 5 or more wickets three other times. Cricinfo splits it that way. But when we add the infobox we just copy the 4 WI column from CI. So the article Viv Richards puts 4 against his 4WI, but there is no sign of the three other occasions when he took more than 4.

I propose that we create new infoboxes which have balls and 5 WI, and gradually replace the older ones. Tintin Talk 17:56, 1 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Can we not change the existing one so that it allows you to specify either balls or overs? Mind you, it would be best to show balls everywhere, I'd have thought, jguk 18:10, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It is possible to (simply) just include a "variable" and put this in place of where the Overs title currently is, or (more complicated) use those if templates to give the choice, as well as defaulting to Overs where there is no value for the variable - so the existing ones that use overs do not need to be changed. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 01:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * How do you set the default ? Tintin Talk 15:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with a new ballsier (ha ha) template. I've been putting Infoboxes on each page, only up to 1925/Australia but in theory I'm going to do them all. CricInfo so far as I can tell only uses balls, so that's what I'm using --Paul 05:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Only about 20 articles use the Infobox (Career). So if there is no objection, I'll change the template to 5 WI and fix the articles manually. Tintin Talk 15:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Well I'm to the point of infoboxing players with ODIs as well as Tests. But in order to go any further, because CricInfo (and hence, me) only use balls bowled, the Overs field dilemma needs to be sorted out. --Paul 17:30, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Cricinfo doesn't always use balls. The player pages all do, but the StatsGuru uses overs if the player has only bowled six-ball overs. Stephen Turner (Talk) 18:35, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly, only when it's a uniform six. But, as pointed out by Tintin, the problem is that some ODI players have a mixture of 6 and 8 ball overs. How many overs they have actually sent down is something that can't gleaned from just the number of balls bowled. --Paul 04:18, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The option of showing "overs" or "balls" in Template:Infobox Cricketer has been included. See the next section (below) for details. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 05:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Rick Darling categories
Just finished creating my first "proper" cricket biography, but I'm lost as to which categories to put on it. Could someone do it for me, and possibly put some kind of complete list of the cricket categories somewhere, and link to it on the main project page? It would be nice to have to see which ones exist and are sub-categories etc... BTW you may notice the article uses the Template:Cricketer Infobox I created a while ago, which allows you to choose to display international and/or domestic stats, and also whether to show balls or overs bowled. examples can be found here. Thanks – AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 04:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Can you modify Template Infobox cricketer also on the same lines ? Tintin Talk 04:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it will require a new thing to be added to every article which uses it though. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 04:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've done it now. It uses, you simply insert the parameter  into each page as either overs or balls - it will default to overs (what it was before the change) if nothing is entered, so that the current pages are not altered until you want to change it. I left the other parameters are  and  so that this doesn't need to be changed. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 05:09, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent, just the ticket. --Paul 05:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I just made a change to this to remove the switch call. That's a 'meta-template' which is going to be deleted sometime in the near future due to server load issues... which would cause this feature to break. The change I made retains exactly the same functionality, but the template call has to change from '|oversORballs=balls' to '|balls= '. What the 'balls' parameter is set to is irrelevant, it just needs to be set to something. For all existing uses of this parameter I have gone through and set '|balls=true' so there shouldn't be any change to what is displayed. --CBD &#x260E; &#x2709; 13:13, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've taken that onboard, but there'll be a few Australians with the old style which will need to be altered. --Paul 15:45, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Michael Bevan
Michael Bevan has been listed for copyright violation. Has anyone got time to write a new article (on the temporary subpage)? Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It is an invalid tag. The instruction says that the page should not be edited but I think it does not apply to spurious cases like this. I am going to remove that in a couple of hours unless I see any comments here defending it. Tintin Talk 13:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the tag is justified, actually. Everything after the first paragraph of "Background" was copied straight out of Cricinfo. It might have been even better to delete the copyright material and leave the small amount of other stuff, rather than put a copyright notice on the article, but that doesn't make the tag "invalid" to my mind: and either way, a new article needs to be written. Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:47, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * All that the background data says now is where he was born, what he does in cricket and the teams that he played for. It is not copyrighted info and from what I know such data cannot be copyrighted. Tintin Talk 13:52, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The current version says that, yes, but the version immediately before the copyright tag was put on was lifted straight from Cricinfo. The procedure is to remove the copyrighted material when adding the copyright tag. Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:56, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry, I was unaware of that history. Tintin Talk 13:58, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


 * CV tag removed. -- Ian &equiv; talk 01:23, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

David Crawford
David Crawford is listed on List of cricketers, under Australia, but he does not appear on List of Australian Test cricketers or List of Australian ODI cricketers. I can't find any reference to him as a Test or ODI player for Australia - is it a possible mixup with Pat Crawford (who was not listed on the List of cricketers... full name William Patrick Anthony Crawford)? Otherwise, who is he? AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 09:16, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It's Pat (WPA Crawford), although in my 1981 edition of the Who's Who of Test Cricketers, it's David Patrick Anthony. I changed it on the Aus and all countries Test lists, I wasn't aware of List of cricketers. Which probably means lots or all the changes I've made won't appear there, unless someone else has been doing it. --Paul 10:06, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've been going through List of cricketers to see if there are redlinks for articles that exist under a different name... that's how I found this one - a fair few to go though. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 10:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The Test and ODI players in the List of cricketers (i.e., all the players in small type) are generated automatically by a program I wrote. So you don't need to change the names in there. Just update them in List of Australian Test cricketers and List of Australian ODI cricketers (or whatever country) and prompt me to run my program again. Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:28, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeh I wasn't sure about that. The problem was that they were all correct in the Australian lists, but were under different names (which did not have articles) in List of cricketers. So I guess you could run the program again, it should give the same changes I made (I only did Australia). Thanks AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 12:51, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * They must have been recently changed in the Australian lists in that case. Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Steve Waugh autobiography uses our work...
I found the following on the dust-cover blurb of the hardcover edition of Steve Waugh's autobiography, Out of My Comfort Zone:


 * As captain of the Australian Test team from 1999 to 2004, Steve Waugh turned a successful side into a dominant one that in many cricket watchers' view ranks with Sir Donald Bradman's 1948 'Invincibles' and the West Indian teams of the 1980s as one of the best teams of all time.


 * Waugh is also noted for having departed from the sometimes ockerish traditions of Austrlaian cricket, encouraging his players to learn about the cultures of the countries they played in, and helping raise funds for Indian children affected by leprosy.

Those passages are rather similar to several in the article...

While it's different enough to be a paraphrase, it's fairly clear to me that the Wikipedia article (or one of its mirrors) was used fairly directly as the only source.

Put another one down in the scorebook for Wikipedia's cricket coverage. --Robert Merkel 02:43, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Very good. My first reaction was (naturally) one of skepticism. But since this passage appeared in the very first version of the article (written by Robert) in December 2002, it is very likely that they took it from here. Tintin Talk 02:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 03:52, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Err.. have they credited us? It's a violation of GFDL if they haven't. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  07:45, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No they haven't. However, it's two heavily edited sentences that only a pedant like me would have even noticed.  If they had quoted a substantial fraction of the article, then I might be more inclined to feel aggrieved.  I find it flattering and amusing more than anything.  --Robert Merkel 07:53, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Articles to be created
G'day, noticed there is no article on the VB Series. As one of the biggest triangular tournaments of the summer (previously known as the CUB Series) I'm shocked there's nothing on it. Same with Premier Cricket in Victoria. I suggest we get to work on them. Rogerthat 11:44, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * This article was started 4 days ago by Haakon, see VB Series 2005-06. I'm sure he'd be happy for your help in developing it, jguk 11:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but we don't have an article on the VB Series overall. As it's been going for about 10 years (plus the World Series Cup which, I believe, is what the VB sprung out of), I think the series is worthy of an article, and I'll try to write one some time in the future. Sam Vimes 13:29, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Ashes 2006-07
Could any Australian WikiProject member who'd be willing, if necessary, to let a bona fide England fan use their address to acquire tickets for the MCG and SCG email me on the Wikipedia email? Am considering a visit, but unsure about whether I'll get tickets - apparently the MCG only holds 100,000 jguk 22:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It will be difficult to get tickets for the first few days, but Days 4 and 5 won't probably sell out. If it does though, that would mean half a million people watched the Test match from the M.C.G.! Whatever the case, its gonna be the biggest sporting event ever which is only between two nations. -- D a Gizza Chat  (c) 00:29, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if they'll stick by this for the Ashes, but (at least for Sydney - though I'd imagine it's the same for other venues) usually they don't start selling tickets for Day 5 until it is a practically a certainty of being played, normally late on day 4. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 03:06, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

WP:Cricket
The project page appears to be broken (and has been for some time). I see a horizontal scrollbar on my 1024x768 screen, and Participants, Templates, Criteria and Style guide boxes are all inside the Infoboxes box. Is anyone game to have a go at fixing? It's out of my league. -- Ian &equiv; talk 07:46, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * That one was caused by a missing &lt;/div> to close the Infoboxes &lt;div>. I've added one and some extra table rows to make the open/close divbox markup a bit clearer. But it still looks too wide, for some reason.  -- ALoan (Talk) 14:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I changed the Template table to fix the width problem, see if you like --Paul 16:38, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Much better, thanks. -- Ian &equiv; talk 16:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * It will still scroll at 800x600 (AKA persona non grata), but those people will be used to cramped and ugly :) --Paul 16:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Australian Test umpires
I've completed biographical entries on all 85 Australian Test cricket umpires from 1877-2006. They're written to a formula which means I've probably overlooked many interesting facts and controversies. It's now up to other interested contributors to put more flesh on the bones of these unsung heroes of the great game.

Now, for my next act ... MulgaBill 21:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * ...English Test cricket umpires? ;) -- ALoan (Talk) 21:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Wot! Me write about Pommy bastards - not b***y likely!! MulgaBill 23:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, at least the Aussie umpires have a page. But some of your Australian umpires seem to be Poms - James Lillywhite? -- ALoan (Talk) 23:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Um, er, point taken. I agonised over him for weeks before awarding him honorary Aussie status so his officiating of Tests in Australia could be included in the list. MulgaBill 02:42, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Add something under a "references" section (are the external links your references?) and a picci or two and nominate it on Featured list candidates! jguk 22:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm happy for someone else to do all that. I  have referred to a few sources (books, Wisdens) along the way, but I'm sure there are anecdotes, reminiscences, analyses aplenty which could be added.  Anything else I come across (hmm, should check out Steve Waugh's autobiog ...) I'll slot into the articles.  As for "featured list" status - that's for others to decide, not me.  MulgaBill 23:38, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * jguk was asking you to provide the references for the list not for the individual biographies - where does the list of umpires, numbers of Tests and notes column come from? (Like him, I preusme it is the external links, but if there is another source, it would be good to add it.)  Take it from us, it is 90% of the way to being a featured list.  Well done :) -- ALoan (Talk) 23:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


 * References used are now included. As far as I know there is not a published list - I gleaned the info from the stated sources. MulgaBill 02:42, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. One query - the lead section says that "This is a list of those people who have umpired at least one Test match in Australia between Australia and other Test cricket nations" but am I right in thinking that the list is limited to Australian umpires who have ... etc ... ?  Presumably, particularly in recent years since the introduction of independent umpires, there are lots of other (non-Australian nationals) who have officiated in a Test match in Australia? -- ALoan (Talk) 10:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the suggestion - I've added all the "foreign" umpires who graced our Australian grounds since 1994. MulgaBill 04:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

English cricketers
There are 628 Test cricketers, per List of English Test cricketers we have articles on all but Mike Smith and Ed Giddins. As "List of English Test cricketers" is categorised in Category:English Test cricketers, there should therefore be 627 entries in that category. However, there are 628 entries. Can anyone spot what the erroneous entry in the category is? jguk 22:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * David "Syd" Lawrence is a duplicate of David Lawrence (cricketer). Sam Vimes 22:13, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Sam, you are amazing. [[Sam Korn ]] 22:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Same to you! ;) *blushes* (in all honesty, it really wasn't that hard...copy and paste the category entries into Excel, copy paste from list of Test cricketers, alphasort, and look for the spot when the two lists go out of kilter). Sam Vimes 22:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

More Featured list candidates
I have nominated List of South African Twenty20 International cricketers and List of American ODI cricketers on WP:FLC. Comments/support would be welcomed, jguk 23:19, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox for a cricket series
How about creating a info box for a series having the same template as Indian cricket team in Pakistan in 2005-06? Right now the table looks complicated on the edit page. Infobox will make it lot cleaner. If noone has any objections, I can go ahead and create one. - Ganeshk   «talk» |« contribs » 01:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * There are a lot of variables involved in cricket series, though - sometimes it's an ODI-only series, sometimes it's a Test-only series, sometimes Player of the Series isn't awarded, etc. I think it's best if we leave it as a table, even though it looks complicated 07:50, 17 January 2006 (UTC) (that was me; Sam Vimes 17:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)]


 * The variables could be managed by creating a series of templates. If a variable is not used (for example, no ODI), it would not show up. A good example is the Taxobox template on Apple. - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 17:37, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm...valid point. I'm not sure I want to invest the time in getting my head around it just yet, but I wouldn't complain if someone else did it. Sam Vimes 21:05, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Any chance that somebody could create a list of OD players for each country much in the way has been for tests? Would help prevent newbies like me duplicating articles then! Thanks. rob77


 * It's already there. See International cricketers for the full list of lists of cricketers. Sam Vimes 17:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Will try to fill in the few England OD players without articles in the next day or so. rob77

Current events section
It would help if there was a current crickets events section on the Project page. It will direct more contributors onto those articles. Your thoughts? - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 21:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ignore this one. I found the section on the portal page. Can we move that section further up the page? - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 18:12, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox cricketer
Should we add 300s/200s to the infobox cricketer? Shewag had hit 200 in the last test. There is no place to update that. - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 17:19, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that would just add to clutter. The information can easily be included in the text, jguk 17:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * If we do, it ain't me going through again and changing them all :P --Paul 18:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Most lists of cricket statistics just record 50s and 100s. The handful of Test 300s (and one 400*) are already recorded in List of Test cricket triple centuries.  Please feel free to create a List of Test cricket double centuries, but there are lots!  A List of Test cricketers by number of double centuries may be interesting - I'm sure cricinfo will have something like that.  -- ALoan (Talk) 21:56, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
 * 261!] --Paul 06:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Doubles collated by player -- Incidentally, one is still in awe of 12 200s in 52 tests (!) --Deville 13:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The Don is the man. Test batting average of 99.94 blows everyone else away, of course. 100 out of 100 votes at Wisden Cricketers of the Century says it all. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:23, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

The outrage there was that Sir Garfield Sobers did not also get 100 out of 100 votes. What were the others thinking of? jguk 15:56, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hard to argue with Shane Warne and Viv Richards, but I am surprised that Ian Botham and Richard Hadlee did not get a look in too. Perhaps a better exercise would be to pick the best cricketer of each decade of the 20th century. -- ALoan (Talk) 16:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Series standards
I'm noticing that there are pages for several recent, or current, series. I was curious as to whether there was a standard in place for creating pages on historical series, in particular how the pages were named (although this is somewhat related to Ganeshk's question about infoboxes a few days ago.

As just one of many examples, if I look at Windies captains, the third column has the captaincy broken up by series, but the links only go to the years, e.g. 1928, which is not cricket-related at all. One could imagine that, for example, the first link for Nunes would be something like 1928, much as we now have West Indian cricket team in Sri Lanka in 2005. This would be a link directly to a series page, which would have more information.

Another reason this really comes up is that I was going through the West Indian players and creating player pages for all the captains (as a first go), and adding on the succession boxes at the bottom. The standard for these succession boxes (if one looks at the Australian list, e.g.) is that when something like 1987/8 appears in a succession box, instead of linking to a series page, it links to 1987/8, where it seems to me that even more useful would be a link to Australian cricket team in Wherever in 1987-8. This would also be useful in the text of a player's bio.

So, as a summary, my questions:
 * Is the standard for naming a series page A-ian cricket team in B in 19CC-DD? If there is no naming convention, what should it be?
 * What do people think about making pages for historical series (not necessarily all right now, but at least for some of the more historically notable ones)? Obviously some exist now, like Bodyline....
 * What do people think about, at least for the future, linking to series instead of years in places like captaincy succession boxes?

If it helps, I may go ahead and do a few of these for Windies and then maybe people might have a better impression of what it is I am proposing.

I'd like to hear any comments or suggestions. Thanks!! --Deville 14:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the idea of creating more series pages, and I like the idea of linking to them even more - I usually do it whenever I write a cricketing bio (I don't see redlinks as a problem). To reply to your questions:
 * Is the standard for naming a series page A-ian cricket team in B in 19CC-DD? If there is no naming convention, what should it be? It's the standard I'm following, anyway. The closest we're getting to a naming convention is (from the project page): When referring to a cricket season spanning two years, use an hyphen (or an en dash) and the last two digits of the second year as in International cricket in 2005-06 or New Zealand cricket team in Zimbabwe in 2005-06
 * What do people think about making pages for historical series (not necessarily all right now, but at least for some of the more historically notable ones)? Obviously some exist now, like Bodyline.... See above. Wouldn't mind if at some time (way off in the future) we had articles for all Test series ever played.
 * What do people think about, at least for the future, linking to series instead of years in places like captaincy succession boxes? Sounds ok to me - only concern is that there's a lot of links to fix. Sam Vimes 15:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * There's been 534 series, if you include one-off Tests, minus a few on how you define 1912 and the Asian Test Championship. The first half of them took 108 years, the last half 21 --Paul 19:03, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * naming convention -- Aha, I forgot to play the old "Actually read the project page" gambit. Thanks!  Anyway, like I said, I'll fire up a couple of historical ones and see how they go.  As Paul points out, it might take a while to get through all 534!  :-P  --Deville 03:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Cricket Series Template
I had already discussed in the talk page. I created a template series and used it in Indian cricket team in Pakistan in 2005-06. Please review. - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 13:08, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks good AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I have used the template at two other places, South African cricket team in Australia in 2005-06 and Sri Lankan cricket team in New Zealand in 2005-06. They are good examples of variables in the series. Sri Lankan one is a ODI only series. Australia one is a Test only series. Australia additionally has footnote section. - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 13:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I could probably generate a filled-in template automatically (the Test stats part of it, anyway) for every series, which might be used as a starting point for an article. --Paul 14:42, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm - good idea, but please wait with it for the moment - I'm not sure whether we're ever going to manage to write anything substantial on each of the 534 series, and an infobox-only series page isn't very useful (witness all the US city "articles" that were written by a bot). Sam Vimes 16:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No need to worry on that score, I've got a few hundred player infoboxes to do, and then a method to auto-generate the ODI-players-by-countries stat lists. --Paul 16:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

WPC "Library"
I'm certain this has been mentioned/suggested before, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the talk archives... Anyway, I reckon it would be a good idea for the members of WP Cricket to just make a list of all the cricket books they own/have easy access to. This would be especially useful if someone is working on a cricket article and need some information that can't be found on the Internet - they could just ask a person with a potentially helpful book to pass on the information or help with the article. Just a thought, I'm happy to get it started if it's got some support. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Excellent idea. See List of works by cricket historians and writers for a list of works. -- Ian &equiv; talk 15:18, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I've started the page and listed most of mine at WikiProject Cricket/Library. They are a bit Australian-centric obviously, it would be great if others could add theirs, fix up the page, make suggestions, etc.. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 08:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a small amount of books, but to be honest, it looks like too much work to list them in the way you have done. --Paul 10:12, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeh it took a bit longer than I expected... anyway I'll leave the page there and see how it goes. No great loss AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 13:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Top-level Cricketers category
I've removed all individuals from the category Cricketers and put them in a more appropriate sub-category. I noticed one person, Bill Allen, who seems not to be a recognised cricketer but is a dentist who happens to play cricket. For now, I have created a new sub-category, Club cricketers, but maybe there is an argument for removing from cricketers altogether. --Portnadler 10:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Google books
This could be useful for research: Google Books. -- Ian &equiv; talk 02:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

New templates
I have added two new templates to the project page.


 * User WikiProject Cricket is a userbox template.
 * WikiProject Cricket can be added to the article's talk pages to direct visitors to this project. See Talk:Shanthakumaran Sreesanth for an example.

- Ganeshk  ( talk ) 17:12, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The WP:Cricket has become too big. Can we move all the templates to a new page ? Tintin (talk) 23:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Participants list could be moved too. - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 23:34, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I have moved them to WikiProject Cricket/Participants and WikiProject Cricket/Templates. -- ALoan (Talk) 00:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Historic cricketer
Template:Infobox Historic cricketer has become rather cramped and ugly. It think it happened here. Has anyone got the skills to fix it? Thanks, Stephen Turner (Talk) 16:53, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to fix it, but it's because of the  bit, as this seems to overwrite the , which means the cells all become smaller. It's happened on every template that uses it, but I can't find any information about these "class" things. AlbinoMonkey (Talk) 00:15, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

AfD
Cricket Blogs Tintin (talk) 03:03, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * and the umpire Richard Ashman (discussion) Sam Vimes 16:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Cricket-bio-stubs
There's now over 2000 of these, so rather in need of splitting up. I'll propose at WP:WSS/P that this be done, by nationality being the obvious place to at least start. Anyone with wildly variant ideas -- or eager to do the actual sorting -- please pipe up. Alai 23:09, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It ought not be too difficult to generate a list of people under both a cricket-bio-stub category and under a nationality category, so this could probably be done quite quickly with a bot. Sam Korn (smoddy) 23:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Not a bad plan, and not an uncommon sort of task, so probably worth having a bot for. I don't think that the pywikipedia bot framework quite covers template merger though, just template replacement.  I may have a bash at this if I feel up to a crash course in Python...  Alai 01:46, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

UPDATE: Alai didn't realise that I had already proposed a split of cricketbio-stub a couple of days earlier! As to using a bot, it may be tricky in this instance, since cricket bios are likely to list more than one country name ("XXX made his debut for Australia against New Zealand in 1977..."), but it's certainly worth a try. Anyhoo, there are now separate stub categories for the eight most well-established test-playing nations, as follows:


 * - Australia-cricketbio-stub
 * - England-cricketbio-stub
 * - India-cricketbio-stub
 * - NZ-cricketbio-stub
 * - Pakistan-cricketbio-stub
 * - SouthAfrica-cricketbio-stub
 * - SriLanka-cricketbio-stub
 * - WestIndies-cricketbio-stub

Any stubs relating to cricketers from other countries can simply be left in the main for now. It was felt that there probably weren’t enough stubs from Zimbabwean or Bangladeshi cricketers (or Kenyan, or from any other country) to yet justify separate stub categories, though this may be reviewed later if the numbers increase.

A couple of notes - I’ve listed as being for English and Welsh cricketers, since both countries compete under the banner of England in most competitions. If that was incorrect, please change the wording of the category accordingly! Also, I've used the full name for South Africa, Sri Lanka and the West Indies in the templates, since SA, WI and SL could mean South Australia, the Windward Islands, and Sierra Leone (although the last one's hardly a cricketing superpower). I doubt any cricket is played in Novaya Zemlya, however, so I've left NZ as is.

Oh, and any help in sorting the stubs into these new categories - either by bot or by hand - will be greatly appreciated! Grutness...wha?  02:26, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

No news on the bot front. :) Note I was thinking only of stubs that were actually tagged with both a country and cricket-bio-, not free text indicated country.  But you're right that some might be "triple-tagged", just to confuse matters.  AWB would help, but currently only if one made multiple passes -- in fact, two passes per country -- which is obviously not ideal.  Alai 03:07, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

So I should start using these sub-cats on stubs I'm creating now? --Paul 04:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. Alai 04:20, 5 February 2006 (UTC)