Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 25

Succession boxes
Is there support for creating some succession boxes for world record holders in cricket? I was on the verge of creating one, following the update I just made to Jack Hobbs (following the question I just set on the quiz), but I've looked around some other sporting articles and there don't seem to be succession boxes for world records. Just medals/titles etc. Is this a policy? I think it would be helpful to be able to trace the progression of records and to see extraordinary lifetime achievements of individuals summarised in their articles. --Dweller 09:41, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a reasonable idea, and the absence of precedents should not be an obstacle - cricket the innovator! At the same time, there are literally thousands of "records" and biographical and team articles could become a bit noisy if every record held was listed in that way.  A policy would need to be struck regarding the notability of a record for succession-box implementation.


 * Example: The highest 3rd wicket partnership in the Sheffield Shield/Pura Cup (390* by Julien Wiener and Jeff Moss, Vic v WA at St Kilda 1981-82) is notable, and the succession of Shield 3rd wicket partnership records is notable, and the succession of Victorian all-wicket partnership records is notable; but the succession of 1981-82 3rd wicket partnerships is not, and the succession of 3rd wicket partnerships at St Kilda is not.


 * Let's start with a sample - say, highest individual score in Test cricket - and see how it looks. Darcyj 09:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * OK... I'll look into it. Never done a succession box before, it'll be fun working it out. --Dweller 10:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * RE: Darcyj's mention of highest 3rd wicket partnership above. Whilst I'd agree that this is a notable record, I don't think it would warrant a succession box. I'd stick to just one or two for the really significant record successions. Ollie 11:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Bodyline renommed for FA
Just to inform the Project members that I have renommed Bodyline for FA status. I hope this is not tantamount to cadging votes - I think I'm alright as it's not technically a vote process, but a debate and I've seen similar notes on other Wikiproject talk pages. If I shouldn't have posted this, sorry (and no doubt it'll be blanked quickly enough). --Dweller 10:04, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I hope WP:Cricket have a look at the article and comment, as they see appropriate, on Featured article candidates/Bodyline.


 * Dweller, it's been my experience in the past that a request here will get WP:Cricket participants looking at the article and commenting on the WP:FAC - but that their comments are genuinely targeted on whether they think it should be a FA - you won't get any blind, unthinking "support" votes:) Good luck with it, though! jguk 12:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd certainly hope not! anyway it's not a vote, I'm pedantically informed :-) --Dweller 12:30, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Highest Test innings succession box
Further to the above thread, I've created Template:Cricket scores succession box.

So far, I've only applied it to Brian Lara and you'll see why if you click on him. I can't fathom how to make it appear on just one line. Please do chime in if you can help. I had to create Template:S-ach too, to create an ambiguous enough heading for any and all records. --Dweller 10:52, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think the box should list the actual score, because succession boxes only have three sub-boxes (previous incumbent, job title, next incumbent). Or at least, it might be possible to keep it if it can fit into each of the three sub-boxes (but that still doesn't work well for highest total runs or highest total wickets). Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * With the four boxes, you've got a total width of 130%, which might well be the cause. Best way to solve this would be to not transclude s-bef, etc and just write a completely separate template. Ollie 11:14, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've made it work by placing it within the and  tags of the existing nest of boxes, and by using the variable years to enter the value of achievement.  The same technique could be used to adapt the basic succession box template for any type of succession.  How's that? Darcyj 11:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Only downside is that we don't know when the player held the record, which leaves me at a loss with many of the older holders. I'm not sure what to suggest to solve the issue though. Ollie 11:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * No, he's left the date in too - check out Lara's page. I think that's very sneaky... and clever. Nice one. Anyone want to comment on layout/content/positioning before I roll it out to Lara's predecessors? "Current" or "Current holder"? Also, I think as a world record it should be the top succession box for any player that already has one... --Dweller 11:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, didn't spot that, my bad. Ollie 11:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Disagree with the last sentence by Dweller. Captaincy is the highest honour in cricket, so I prefer that succession to be pre-eminent, followed by award achievements such as Wisden Cricketer of the Year, followed by playing achievements such as world records, followed last of all by non-playing achievements and roles (if any). Darcyj 11:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't see a need for this succession box - particularly as having the highest Test score is not a role in the same way as being an international captain is. The achievement of getting the highest Test score should be mentioned within the text. If you want to add details of who preceded and succeeded the player to that feat, again, the text is the best place for it. jguk 12:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I appreciate the effort put in by Dweller, but I think I mostly agree with jguk - there are already far too many of these box things littering our articles already (see Ian Botham) and significant achievements of this sort should already be mentioned in the article text. Cricket is inherently amenable to a mass of statistics, and it does not help to add too many to a general-interest encyclopedia article.


 * However, IF we are going to do something like this, it should be limited to a handful of very important records, such as those listed on List of Test cricket records and List of One-day International cricket records (highest score, best bowling analysis, most international caps...). -- ALoan (Talk) 12:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


 * [after edit conflict] :I agree with Jguk. Too many succession boxes make an article look ugly and I can only see a need for them if a reader wants to navigate through a series of articles in that order. I cannot envisage that being the case for a highest Test innings record.  This information belongs in prose, not tables.  Also, is Lara going to have 2 boxes as he's held the record twice?   I also reckon that Hayden's position in the table is misleading as him being ahead of say Hutton might imply a superiority when Hayden made his record against a weak Zimbabwean side and Hutton against the Aussies.  That needs to be explained properly. &mdash;Moondyne 12:51, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting debate. I thought there might be some dissent, which is why I wanted to solicit some consensus before blazing away. I agree with some of the comments made. Too many boxes would look silly, but I disagree that they're not useful. I think User:ALoan's right. If we limit their use to only the most prestigious records in Tests and ODIs, it would seem sensible. I'd like to know if this is the Project members' consensus, so please do continue to comment. --Dweller 09:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I like it, but only for (i) highest innings score; (ii) total career runs; (iii) total career wickets; and maybe one or two more I haven't thought of. I wouldn't include most of the things on List of Test cricket records, such as most runs in a series or most Test centuries. Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I would have thought any individual record of reasonable importance would be fair game, hence I started work on some. As with anything on Wikipedia, it is the court of public opinion which decides the notability. Darcyj 12:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * All of these records (and many more) are notable - taking five wickets or a hat-trick is notable; scoring a century is notable. The question is whether a box of some sort is necessary.  Like Stephen, I would argue not, in most cases. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, a succession box takes up a lot of space, and should only be used for very important things, otherwise the top players will have loads of them. Your earlier example of highest third wicket stand in Sheffield Shield matches is a long, long way from being important enough, in my opinion. I wouldn't even include highest partnership in Test cricket. Stephen Turner (Talk) 12:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There's a good example of succession boxes gone mad at Barry Bonds. As long as things don't end up looking like that, I think the idea is OK. Ollie 23:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Bangladesh categories CfD
Please see :

Bangladeshi cricketers by century

and give your views.

I've stated my position on the page already. I'm simply making this category consistent with an overall restructure taking place throughout category:History of cricket. --BlackJack | talk page 17:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The nomination has been withdrawn and I've thanked the guy/girl in question. Thanks also to the cricket members who wrote in to support our position.
 * If we have any Bangladeshi members, anything you can contribute will be most welcome. --BlackJack | talk page 20:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Brian Lara
I was quite shocked by how out of date this article is. It's also littered with typos. I'm going to get stuck into it and do my best. I welcome any and all assistance. --Dweller 08:46, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've had a bit of a go at this too (can't take much of the credit though!)- please can someone else have a look at the discussion at talk:Brian Lara and see what they think about our suggestions?--Gavinio 00:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

User:CricketBot/stubs
Some of you may have noticed already, but I've created a new page, User:CricketBot/stubs. This lists biographies which are stub-length, together with the number of Tests and ODIs the player has played. This should help in identifying players who are a priority for an improved article.

(This replaces the previous page User:CricketBot/substubs).

Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * This is good stuff, Stephen, and something struck me immediately when I started scanning the list. There seems to be a lot of Kiwis in there.  I'm currently working on the histories of the rest of the world outside England and I've been surprised by the limited amount of material about NZ cricket, which I'm going to try and rectify.  If anyone has anything they can input, please do so when you have time.  Every little bit helps.  --BlackJack | talk page 20:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I had noticed that myself when I was writing the Martin Donnelly (cricketer) page. I've also noticed though that Zimbabwe, South Africa, Sri Lanka et al. players also have a limited amount of coverage and that some of the Indian cricketers' page, for example, are laughably poorly written.  --Roisterer 00:09, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Bodyline FAC
Hi. I and some others have dealt with (edits/dismissing) a number of comments on Bodyline arising from the FAC. There's one outstanding one, concerning fair use on an image. Way outside my experience here! Can someone pls help? --Dweller 23:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Though I've never done this before, there is information at Image description page and the main Fair use page. Basically you need to justify why you think the image can be used under the terms of fair use. I haven't done this myself as I'm not sure that the usage can be justified under fair use, but I am not very familiar with the article, so I will leave it to someone in the know.
 * It also looks like you ought to add a source for the image and information about who holds the copyright. Sorry I can't be of much more help. Ollie 00:13, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

It looks like the article has regained FA status, although confusingly there's no sign that the process has ended at Featured_article_candidates/Bodyline --Dweller 09:18, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Big turn
This drivel has appeared in the main cricket category. It is yet another example of the tedious "corridor cricket" nonsense. Could someone with admin functions please remove it and do whatever is necessary to prevent repeats. Thanks. --BlackJack | talk page 21:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've listed it at Articles for deletion/Big turn. Stephen Turner (Talk) 22:04, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * This could probably have been prodded, as I don't think it would have met with any controversy. Ollie 22:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought about it but decided that the author would probably oppose the prod. Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:49, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

CB Fry
Hi. I think it's a little unfortunate that the immortal CB Fry's cricket statbox is illustrated with a charming cartoon of him playing for England... at football. Can anyone find a good cricket image under fair use? I seem to recall there's a brilliant Spy cartoon of him as cricketer... --Dweller 20:09, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There ought to be a PD picture of him somewhere, really, considering that his career dates back into the 19th century. Unfortunately the only large photo I can find is this one from the British Library, complete with their logo. It's dated 1896, but the BL claim that the reproduction (as opposed to the underlying photo) is subject to their copyright statement, though I'm not sure whether that applies to material published on Wikipedia's servers in the US. Loganberry (Talk) 23:40, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, here are some possible alternatives:
 * http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39332000/jpg/_39332692_fry203.jpg
 * http://bowlsatlindfield.homestead.com/files/sportpage__cbfry.JPG
 * http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/PICTURES/DB/042004/051941.player.jpg
 * The copyright situation will depend on the photographer, not who owns the photo. The logo could be cropped. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The first of ALoan's finds looks terrific. How does one go about establishing the copyright / fair use issues? --Dweller 12:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it is used here on the BBC website. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, but so are photos of Ted Dexter and Mushtaq Ahmed that are almost certainly copyrighted, and the photographers of those aren't credited by the BBC either. They'll have some sort of blanket permission agreement, I assume, but we don't. Loganberry (Talk) 04:26, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

What is wrong with ..
There is an interesting question by a reader from America at Talk:Underarm_bowling_incident_1981. Tintin (talk) 03:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe we should really confuse him with this link to a Cricinfo column of today's date jguk 13:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Should we also point out to cricinfo that Arthur Heygate should actually be Harold Heygate? Johnlp 23:28, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Kevin Wright
Can someone take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kevin_Wright&action=history The cricketer article was moved and replaced by one about a company that gets 4 google hits. Unknowingly, I too helped him in cleaning up the page. Tintin (talk) 07:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks like a speedy deletion candidate to me. I've listed it as such. If and when it gets deleted, the cricketer can move back. Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. DaGizza deleted the page and moved the original one back. Tintin (talk) 09:29, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Minor Counties category up for rename
See discussion at: Minor counties

User:ProveIt has requested that we put the name of this category into context. --BlackJack | talk page 09:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Tony Greig
I've never heard of the marriage controversy mentioned in Tony_Greig. Is it well-known in Aus/Eng ? Tintin (talk) 07:23, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I recall it. I think Greig was even temporarily suspended over it.  --Roisterer 07:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Certainly well known in Australia. It was big news at the time. And yes, I also recall that Greig was temporarily suspended from the Channel 9 commentary team over it. -dmmaus 05:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia Crackdown
Should we have a general understanding of some sort, that adding things about which football team or which music some player listens to should be removed from the article? It seems what we are perhaps hesitant to put down a marker about this kind of stuff, but I think we should start enforcing it. I think it is unencyclopedicBlnguyen (bananabucket) 05:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It may be hard to make a general rule as to what's in and what's out, but I too would like to see these things removed when people find them. I think Wikipedia is generally good at removing untrue stuff, but bad at removing true but irrelevant stuff. Stephen Turner (Talk) 08:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Difficult to be hard and fast about this. Favourite musician is quite an important issue for Bob Willis and Graham Cowdrey. --Dweller 10:48, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The material in the Trivia section of the Willis article definitely belongs in the article, but does it need to be in a separate section? JPD (talk) 12:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not fond of Trivia sections in general, and in the case of articles which might one day be FA candidates (Donald Bradman being the obvious one) I think they're a significant barrier to achieving that status. Mostly I feel that if a fact is important enough it should be possible to work it into the main text somewhere, rather than having an ugly and disjointed list. Loganberry (Talk) 14:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I meant that the outside cricket stuff, if it can be relevant, it would be moulded into the article. However, random facts in a separate section should be removed. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:37, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Dedication CC
Copied from WP:CRIQ :


 * Hi there, sorry I haven't posted with university taking up most of my time this year, and I apologise that this post is not actually to do with the quiz either. I am in a team called 'Dedication C.C.' and recently a few of the guys created a page here on Wikipedia which was unfortunately dismissed as a few school kids playing a prank, and the administration have subsequentially deleted the page. I can assure you that this wasn't a prank, in fact you can see us in the draw (sorry I don't have any more solid evidence) on http://www.willowfest.com.au/index.htm (Willowfest is an annual cricket carnival played from 27-30 Dec in Mildura, Australia). I'm not sure how much power any of you have, however, I would greatly appreciate your help to try and get our page back online, thanks in advance! Jazzycab 08:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

The words used in the deletion discussion may have been a bit harsh. However, you should never write Wikipedia articles about yourself or groups you're involved in personally. See WP:AUTO and WP:COI for the Wikipedia policies on this. If you do, your article will almost always be deleted as non-notable. Stephen Turner (Talk) 10:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, Thanks for clearing that up, thanks for your time. Jazzycab 23:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Admin application
I've decided to take the plunge and apply to be an admin:

admin application

My main purpose is to help the development of cricket on the site and as an admin to protect it but in a more general sense I would like to get involved with AfD and CfD. --BlackJack | talk page 22:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Best of luck with it. I see the discussion closes on the 25th, so I hope you have a nice present waiting for you come the big day! Andrew nixon 23:47, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Batting Average article
I've noticed that somebody has added extensive tables of batting averages for Test and ODI players, both retired and active to Batting average. I think this is a bad move for several reasons: 1. It makes for a page that needs constant updating with new stats. 2. I don't believe Wikipedia should be a repository of constantly updated sports stats anyway. Other sites do it better, and we can easily provide an external link to CricInfo or HowsStat or whatever. 3. Probably most importantly: It makes it look like cricket is starting to monopolise that article at the expense of baseball. I think this is a bad thing, because it presents a bad image of cricket on Wikipedia. (And everyone here should know that we've had and continue to have image problems in the face of people who think cricket is a ridiculous sport.) The article as it was before was primarily an interesting insight into how two different sports arrived at their respective primary batting statistic, illustrating clearly the relationship between them and the important differences in a statistical sense. I believe that many baseball fans who came to the page discovered something of interest about their chosen sport and how its history is related to cricket, that they never would have learnt if there were separate articles on batting average for each sport. I fear that if we start pushing too much cricket stats in to the page we may alienate the baseball people and create a push to separate it into two articles, which would be a tragedy. Therefore I propose removing most of the batting average tables, restoring it to only the top 10 Test averages, to mirror the baseball stats. -dmmaus 22:25, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Agree, and well spotted. The stats are pretty daunting not just in their bulk, but also in the position they're at in the article. There might just be some merit in putting a smaller table (of highest Test batting averages for completed careers only?) down at the bottom of the article to go alongside the baseball table and to show the different measures of notability alongside each other. But if that's difficult, then just put in a reference line to one of the outstanding external websites where such tables are constantly updated, and take them out of here. Johnlp 22:40, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think if we are to place such detail in there on both sports the article should have a synopsis of both sectons directly after the lead. I don't think the extra stat info is bad per se, but the more casual reader needs to get at the gist of the information for each sport rather more easily. Secondly, is there any reason why cricket is before baseball? Surely a neutral alphbetical listing would be appropriate here? --LiamE 00:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * As I recall from a previous discussion, cricket is first because the concept of "batting average" in baseball came after, and indeed was derived from, the similar concept in cricket. Thus it's justifiable from a historical perspective. Loganberry (Talk) 01:33, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Yup just seen that over there. As long as there is reason I'm happy with the ordering. --LiamE 02:42, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks guys. I'll make the change later today or tomorrow then. (Unless someone beats me to it.) -dmmaus 02:31, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Ben Smith
Please may I say that I have moved the Ben Smith article to Ben Smith (cricketer) (due to the high amount of Ben Smith articles on the site). I have also sorted the double re-directs and it took me over an hour! If I have made any mistakes please contact me on my Talk page. Kingjamie 15:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks fine. He is only a county cricketer. The others also seem to be on the same level of importance. Tintin (talk) 15:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Excellent work there. I should have done it myself really, given that I wrote most of the material in the article and that I noticed some other Ben Smiths a little while ago, but never got around to it. Thank you! Loganberry (Talk) 16:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

ECB Trophy
This is the new (and presumably temporary) name of the Gillette/NatWest/C&G Trophy in England. I'd like to ask for suggestions around giving the article a permanent generic title instead of using sponsor names. Unfortunately, the competition began life under a sponsored name in 1963 and it has never really acquired a generic one, unlike the County Championship or the National League or even the Twenty20 Cup.

It has sometimes been referred to as "the knockout" but only by individuals and it certainly has no official name other than the present sponsor.

Recently, one of our Kiwi friends changed the State Championship (formerly Plunket Shield and Shell Trophy) to the generic New Zealand first-class cricket championship. New Zealand's limited overs competitions are also named after State Insurance nowadays and to avoid further confusion I've changed State Shield to New Zealand limited-overs cricket trophy.

To set the ball rolling on a permanent title for the English version, I suggest English limited-overs cricket trophy. It would of course need a very clear introduction that outlines what it is and refers to all its past and present sponsor names. --BlackJack | talk page 21:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * You might want to add the word "knockout" in there somewhere, to differentiate it from other limited-over competitions that had league elements. There is still, though, a problem about what to call the erstwhile B&H Cup, assuming that is also worth an article. None of this should be too problematic if we have robust redirects for all the other names and disambiguation pages where there might be confusion between competitions. Johnlp 21:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The ECB Trophy sounds nice, though - a sponsorless name which may actually be used. I'd like English limited-overs cricket knockout trophy as well, though, nice and consistent. As "Trophy" has been in the name since 1981, that's got to be in somewhere. The National League is a reasonably well worked in name, so that can be kept.


 * The Benson & Hedges Cup was always known as that, so there's not really a problem - Wikipedia's most cited guideline on naming conventions is "use the most common name" and if that's a sponsor name, so be it. If we're really keen on avoiding sponsor names, we could always call it Super Cup since it was known as the Benson & Hedges Super Cup in 1999. Sam Vimes | Address me 22:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd be against including knockout in a generic article title for the now-ECB Trophy, as it is anything but a knockout tournament these days. As for the Benson & Hedges Cup, I see nothing wrong with Benson & Hedges Cup as that was the competitions name for all but one year of its existence. Andrew nixon 22:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

List of Test cricketers
Hi there. I here that your list, List of Test cricketers, is automatically updated. If so, how is this done. We at WP:RU are rather interested in some sort of way at reducing user time in completing List of All Blacks. Please reply either here, my talk page or at talk:WP:RU. Chow.-- HamedogTalk|@ 06:40, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be great if all sports could copy the automatic system used in updating cricketers. I personally don't know how it works. GizzaChat  &#169; 08:12, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Happy Christmas, everyone. I update that page, but it's just compiled from all the national pages (List of Australian Test cricketers etc.) which are not automatically updated. So it hasn't really solved the problem. (I had an idea once that it should be possible in principle to update all the lists, and all the players' infoboxes for that matter, automatically at the end of every Test, but that's obviously much harder). Stephen Turner (Talk) 19:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Who created all those lists? Sounds like a lot of work. But I guess once your done its just maintaining.-- HamedogTalk|@ 22:18, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Are We in Danger of Repeating Ourselves?
I think that there's a potential problem with having an overview article on The Ashes plus a series of articles on Australian cricket team in England in nnnn plus a series nnnn English cricket season. At best, a lot of the same information is likely to appear in all three places, at worst there may be inconsistencies between the three or the greatest detail on the Test series may not always be in the most logical place for it. (I suppose that the "Australian cricket team in England" articles ought to include the most detail.) It also means that every article needs to provide appropriate links to its "brother" articles and to have all the appropriate Categories, so that it's made easy for a reader to get the full picture. I think that some sort of co-ordination effort might be needed. At the moment, Sam Vimes seems to be taking the lead on "Australian cricket team in England", BlackJack on "English cricket season", with many people adding to the "The Ashes" piece, but I don't know how much they all talk to each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhall1 (talk • contribs)


 * You make a fair point; I've only made the one article on Australian cricket team in England in 1902, though, because it's such a famous series. I think it would be wise to make 1902 Ashes series point to Australian cricket team in England in 1902, though, instead of doing as is done with the current season and have English cricket team in Australia in 2006-07 detailing the tour matches (I think a short wrap-up of the Ashes is needed when it's over), and 2006-07 Ashes series detailing the Tests.


 * You'll notice, though, that there's little there repeated in 1902 English cricket season, which is supposed to just contain a short overview of the competition, since so much cricket takes place. I don't think there should be duplication if we sort it out nicely, and BlackJack is doing an absolutely fabulous job of creating structures and categories at present; I'm just trying to fill it out with some content! Sam Vimes | Address me 22:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think John has a good point but as we are looking at different levels of detail, I don't think there will be a duplication problem except perhaps while the articles remain stubs. For example, 1902 English cricket season covers everything and should give the Tour and the Test series the same priority as the County Championship.  As well as an article about the 1902 Australians you could equally have an article about Yorkshire in 1902.  As well as an article about the 1902 Test series, you could have one about the 1902 Roses Matches.
 * The categories structure that I've been doing is complete now and it's a case of try it and see. If it doesn't work it can be improved.  I was concerned about categorisation of tour reviews in particular as many were stray articles and we didn't have a structure for tours.  I've expanded category:Years in cricket as we were lagging behind the baseball and soccer projects in sports history.  I've also tried to set up a startpoint for each country's season reviews (England and now Bangladesh are complete in this respect): I'm going to do a bit of work on Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe which are both slightly confusing.
 * By the way, Australian cricket team in England in 1902 is a superb article: I spotted it in the recent additions list and expected to find a stub as per my own season/tour inputs, so this was a surprise. What a pity there was no TV coverage in those days....  --BlackJack | talk page 09:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Fast bowling classification
The RSC FAQ classifies fast-medium bowlers as faster than medium-fast bowlers, and medium-slow as faster than slow-medium. This fits with my experience of how commentators generally use the terms; however, an editor is claiming on the fast bowling article that medium-fast is faster than fast-medium, citing Vikram Singh's cricinfo profile as a reference. Does anyone else have input on how these terms are generally used, or a reliable reference for how pace bowlers are generally classified? --Muchness 05:18, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I suggest the discussion is continued at Talk:Fast bowling as it has already started there. Stephen Turner (Talk) 08:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 19:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Indication of not-out scores
I'm not sure if there's already a stylistic standard regarding this, but after browsing a few articles, there doesn't appear to be. What is the consensus on having the asterisk indicating a not out score on a player's highest score, being a link to the aforementioned article or a similar explanation of the concept of not-out? Therefore, if someone not too familiar with the intricacies of cricket scoring were to come across the cryptic asterisk, they'd be linked to a definitive explanation. If so, should this only be done on the player's infobox (i.e., their highest score), throughout the article or only at the first occurrence within an article? I've done this in the infobox at the Makhaya Ntini article on which I'm currently working. Any thoughts? - Cenobite 22:02, 30 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that's an excellent idea. --Dweller 10:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)