Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 60

"Bodyline" or "bodyline"
At Featured article candidates/Bill Ponsford/archive1, the observation was made that the intitial letter in "Bodyline" was most often capitalised. This seems a little strange to me but I checked Donald Bradman (my "gold standard" when it comes to cricket bios) and sure enough Bodyline is capitalised in every instance. I have therefore capitalised "Bodyline" in Bill Ponsford for all instances other than in direct quotes.

This treatment seems to me to be at odds with the treatment in most published sources that I am aware of, where Bodyline is treated as a standard noun rather than a proper noun and left uncapitalised. I am interested to see what others think and if we come to some consensus then perhaps WP:CRIC should be updated to include this. -- Mattinbgn\talk 02:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought it was always capitalised. Why I also italicise it myself, I've no idea.  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 02:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

On the topic of Bodyline I was doing some research on the great man Bill Woodfull and I think that the Bodyline is missing quite a lot. I haven't even read Frith's authoritative account yet (not at the lending library) but even with his 15 pages in the Cricket Australia history ("Archives") there's a lot more about how it was gradually intensified during the summer and all that, and Woodfull being close to being fired for not using Bodyline  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 02:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I have trouble with this sort of thing myself. I think in this case it is capitalised because of the way it has come to be used as a proper noun, rather than an improper or standard noun. For instance, the 'Bodyline Series' is a name that is sometimes given to the season in which the term was coined and hence it has become a proper noun. I could be wrong, though. — AustralianRupert (talk) 07:05, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Sri Lankan players with long names
I note that Dweller's Sri Lankan cricket team test hasn't been updated since 2007. Have any nominally well-endowed Sri Lankans taken the field for the national team since then? --Dweller (talk) 09:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It seems that no Sri Lankan debutant (since 2007) in any international form of the game has a longer name that your current record holder! OrangeKnight (talk) 20:39, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. (Shame!) --Dweller (talk) 21:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Spreaking of SL, I'm surprised that as Australia knew they would be facing Mendis in the T20 WC, they didn't pick Hodge; knows Mendis from IPL and was the best Australian in the tournament. Or why they didn't send out D Hussey when Ponting was dismissed and the others were having trouble with Mendis. Pretty odd tactics I have to say  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 01:31, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aussies are in some trouble. Lee has lost the plot, Watson's just nervously ambling in and Johnson is very erratic. Ponting's not the player he was, Clarke looks to have lost confidence against spin and has been getting trapped on the crease of late and M Hussey is in a servere form slump. Haddin seems to be the only one in any sort of form. Bit of a risk I know, but it would have been a decent punt to play Ferguson. Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 04:25, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

England with a chance in the Ashes then! Nick mallory (talk) 05:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't get too ahead of yourself ;)  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 05:59, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't see England bowling Australia out for a reasonable score. Not with Johnson the way he is nowadays and Hughes doing it easily. I suppose if both teams play properly there's no reason why it wouldn't be 0-0 but the same applied to the India-Aus last October  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 01:14, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Punjab cricket team (Pakistan) versus Punjab cricket team
Are these teams comparable? I think the former won the Ranji Trophy in 1992/3 and the latter won the Quaid-i-Azam Trophy in 1956/7 and 1974/5.

Without getting into the politics, I can't help thinking that some sort of disambiguation or hatnote is required.

There is also Category:Punjab (India) cricketers but no Category:Punjab (Pakistan) cricketers - should there be?

Comments? -- Testing times (talk) 18:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Both teams seem equally notable, so I agree that disambiguation renaming for both is probably best (i.e. moving Punjab cricket team to Punjab cricket team (India), making the former link in to a disambig page). Also note, the Pakistani Punjab team has its player category located at Category:Punjab cricketers, which should probably also be disambiguated. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 11:45, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, now I think of it, should the parenthetic text be moved to after the location name (meaning it'd be Punjab (Pakistan) cricket team and Punjab (India) cricket team)? Pretty minor issue, but hey, worth mentioning while it's being brought up, I figure :) AllynJ (talk | contribs) 11:47, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

FAC
Featured article candidates/Early life of Keith Miller/archive1 Featured article candidates/Bill Ponsford/archive1 need attention  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) 07:41, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Featured article candidates/Ron Hamence with the Australian cricket team in England in 1948/archive2  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:42, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Laxman edit
Anyone understand this edit and is it correct?  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:07, 9 June 2009 (UTC)


 * It was previously three symbols, the first two of which were identical. I'm guessing it translated to VVS. New addition is probably Vangipurappu Venkata Sai. Jevansen (talk) 11:20, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, It was a bit past me so I didn't want to revert it, but the edit was made by an IP so it made me a bit wary.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:27, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

roger kimpton's place of death
loganberry, Sorry I have taken so long to respond. I feel it neccesary to reveal that I am one of the grandsons of Roger Kimpton, and do indeed know what I am talking about. You won't find any source saying Flinders. Roger Kimpton lived a significant part of his latter life at Flinders, I was present as a little boy at his funeral, and he was indeed buried at Flinders cemetary. I respect the policy, but please believe me, I would just like to see the information displayed correctly. James Kimpton —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimpton1 (talk • contribs) 11:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately Wikipedia will only use information from reliable sources and, with the greatest respect, your statement as his grandson would not count. To give you another example, Jimbo Wales (the man who made Wikipedia) knows when his birthday is, and he also knows that the birth date in the article we have on him is (or at least was) incorrect. Nevertheless, that date is what the sources say, so that is what we keep. Jimbo even tells us to keep it, because he doesn't have a reliable source to counter it. Unfortunately, unless you/we can find a reliable source ("and articles should be based primarily on third-party sources.") we can use to verify place of death, it cannot be set. If you read WP:RS and Verifiability they should help you. Regards, SGGH ping! 11:44, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, just for the record there is a Roger Charles (?) Kimpton aged 83 - end of November 1999 - buried at Flinders Cemetery. http://www.ozgenonline.com/aust_cemeteries/vic/mornington_pen/flindersdata.htm
 * RossRSmith (talk) 12:56, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Then it just comes down to a matter of concensus here as to whether we take that reference over CricInfo and Cricket Archive. Any thoughts? SGGH ping! 14:05, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Well... SGGH I strongly believe in reliable refs for nearly everything. This is an interesting/strange read about Jimbo editing his own article. Anyway I'd probably go with the cemetery ref just because of comments made by Kimpton1. If there were an art about yourself on wiki would you rather an article the is correct that doesn't have a reliable ref, or and article that is incorrect with a source that is obviously mistaken? I know what I'd rather.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 12:02, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I may have missed something, but could someone perhaps explain to me why a reference on someone's place of burial could be used to change their place of death? Andrew nixon (talk) 12:40, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

This is getting rather farcical. I am his grandson! I know where he died. For policy purposes as explained by SGGH, there has been a cemetary reference provided. There should not be any need for further discussion on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimpton1 (talk • contribs) 13:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think the question being asked here is what relationship does his place of burial have with his place of death? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

A valid question, no doubt. CricInfo and other sources are WRONG about the place of his death, and therefore a written source for the CORRECT place of his death- does not exist insofar as I know. He lived at Flinders, died there and was buried at the cemetary there. In terms of following wikipedia policy, the cemetary reference is as close as I am going to get. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimpton1 (talk • contribs) 13:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WP must go with the reliable sources, regardless of whether they are actually correct or not. A ref for the place of burial simply cannot be used as a ref for the place of death, as they are two entirely different things (unless someone happened to be buried alive, of course). Nor can the assertions of a relative be taken into account other than trying to find a source to back them up. wjemather bigissue 13:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Correct me if Im wrong: sources aren't that reliable if they are wrong, are they? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimpton1 (talk • contribs) 13:52, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * What I'd actually suggest you do is to e-mail CricketArchive, who are usually very good at responding to correspondence, and inform them. Being statisticians, they will no doubt be delighted for you to correct their records. As others have said, we need a third-party source. A source for where someone is buried is not good enough as a source for their place of death - they are not always the same place. To use a high-profile example, I could easily find a source that says that Princess Diana is buried in England - but I'd obviously be wrong to use England as her place of death. Andrew nixon (talk) 17:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Listas for Basil and Damian D'Oliveira
A quick question I would like to get concensus on. Would you expect the D'Oliveiras to be list as a D or an O when listed alphabetically? My feeling is that they should be listed as a D. Your thoughts please. --LiamE (talk) 19:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * D for me too. SGGH ping! 20:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wisden, in "Births and Deaths of Test Cricketers", has Basil D'Oliveira listed under D. (It also has the various de Silvas listed under D, which seems much more dubious.) JH (talk page) 21:07, 11 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys. I'll put them back in the D's. --LiamE (talk) 21:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Notable?
Hello. While patrolling the new articles list at the Military History project I came across this article — Joe - Pete - Battles of the Saints. Evidently the 'battle' title threw it up on our radar, but it turns out it is a cricket related article. I have had a quick look at the article and it has many issues, namely: it wasn't tagged (I've now tagged it with the cricket project tag), no categories (I have added one), no references, and other style/grammar issues.

The question I have is: does this article meet the notability requirements of the project? The infobox claims it is a Test match encounter, which is clearly not true, but what level is it? First class? School cricket? I don't know.

I'm not a member of the cricket project (huge cricket tragic in real life, though, but don't get to play much anymore due to my occupation), and as such I don't want to make any judgements on it. However, I request that some of the cricket project members take a look and decide on its notability or otherwise. If not notable, it possibly needs to be sent to AfD. — AustralianRupert (talk) 02:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe that it's not first-class but is notable. I think I've heard about this fixture, and that it attracts big crowds and great media interest in Sri Lanka. Certainly a lot of the players mentioned in the article went on to play Test cricket for Sri Lanka, However the article needs a complete rewrite. For instance, it contains this gem: Therefore let me "pen push"a few exciting memorable moments and some interesting finishes from the history of this prestigious "Battle of the Saints" encounter. JH (talk page) 08:50, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * You may be thinking of the Royal–Thomian fixture JH. CMJ wrote in the 1994 Wisden that the match attracted a crowd of 15,000 and completely overshadowed the Test match in Colombo which was happening at the same time. --Jpeeling (talk) 10:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

These school fixtures seem to be a big thing in Sri Lanka, not just the "Battle of the Blues". See   But that article needs a considerable amount of work. Perhaps School cricket in Sri Lanka would be a better place to bring them all together? -- Testing times (talk) 10:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I will ruthlessly route out the problems. For starters I'll move it to Battle of the Saints (cricket) and delete the first link as a nonsensical redirect. Then try to cut out the poor content and see if we can make an article on it or not. SGGH ping! 12:38, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have moved it, and I am toying with the idea of keeping the original content in a subpage somewhere for the project. We all know that numerous cricket articles suffer from overly flowery, decadent prose - like a personal reflection on the player rather than a wiki article - and this article is at the moment a good example of extreme cases. Perhaps we could set up a project style guideline subpage and show the before and after as a good indicator of how not to write good wiki cricket articles? Some minor examples of this problem are revealed even in our FACs, so it is a problem that could use some attention. Thoughts? SGGH ping! 12:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've just noticed that barring the first line the article is copied from here: so it needs to be rewrote from scratch rather than just trimmed. --Jpeeling (talk) 12:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Roger. Will do. SGGH ping! 12:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Sunny Sohal
Please see Reference_desk/Miscellaneous. --Dweller (talk) 10:40, 15 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Heaps of stats and raw data on his profile at Cricinfo and CricketArchive  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 00:54, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

The Ashes interwiki
I was surprised to spot yesterday that this article only existed in 10 languages, including en:

I've now added a simple: version, but if there are any multilingual editors out there, it'd be good to get it on a few more wikis before the hostilities commence. --Dweller (talk) 11:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

New Zealand in Zimbabwe in 2009
International cricket in 2009 is still showing the above tour, despite the tour having been postponed a few months ago. Being a newbie on WikiProject Cricket, I was wondering if I should replace the current info there with a note, or if it should just be removed outright, perhaps with a note in the introduction text on the article. KDLarsen (talk) 19:51, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Bodyline
Think it needs more work for FA status. Is it just me or the legacy type section a bit ad hoc?  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 00:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's been a while since its last FARC. Such a high profile article and such a POV magnet, it probably needs a good overhaul. --Dweller (talk) 09:53, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've added more stuff but I doubt it is an exhaustive list of all the main points. I haven't read teh authoritative books. As for FARC, that was 2.5 years ago and standards have been on the rise again  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 01:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Gosh, was it really 2.5 years ago! It feels like yesterday. I still remember the sense of righteous indignation I felt - Bodyline was going to be unfeatured over my dead body! Still, I assume there's one heck of a lot of FAs in the queue for FARC before it's due a return. --Dweller (talk) 11:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well yes, there are a lot of vastly inferior outdated FAs, although this one would ucrrently struggle at FAC  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:39, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Also Perhaps O'Reilly needs more info about the infamous Catholic board meeting in 36/37 as well.  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * On a second look, none of his iconic performances are explained in any great detail, eg the matchwinning hauls in the First Test and Fifth Test of 1934 and some few others, only the number is recorded. A book needs to be consulted I think  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Only 17k prose. Pretty short for one of the all time greats with lots of books written about him  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 04:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have the McHarg biography at home if it helps. It leans a little to the Catholic side when discussing the sectarian split, understandable in an author who attended Joey's and whose other books include biographies of McCabe and Hassett! -- Mattinbgn\talk 04:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Growden is a bit pro-Fingofaction too. Cricket World Cup looks a bit archaic now as well and Summer of four captains has a lot of unsourced non-clearcut info  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 05:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Growden, of course wrote the Fleetwood-Smith bio! They are pretty tribal, these papists :-) -- Mattinbgn\talk 05:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Gouher Sultana
I see this delightfully-named lady is playing in the 20:20 semi final. With a name like that she definitely needs an article... --Dweller (talk) 12:54, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Woodfull and Ponsford image question
The discussion at Featured article candidates/Bill Ponsford/archive1 is continuing and is now at a stage where image licencing is an outstanding issue. The image at right is a (very good) photograph of Woofdull and Ponsford walking out to bat for Australia in a match somewhere. The issue is, where?

Due to the vagaries of international copyright law, if the photograph was taken in Australia, the image is public domain and therefore usable in the article. However, if the photograph was taken in the UK, then the photograph is likely still under copyright protection and therefore unusable, unless we can demonstrate that was released into the public domain by the owner (unlikely) or that the photographer died over 70 years ago (i.e. in 1939 or earlier, which is also unlikely).

I am a supporter of only using freely licenced content in articles, so I am not opposed to removing it if it is not suitable, but it is a great image and I would love to keep it in the article if at all possible. If you have any information that may identify the location of this photo, please let me know. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 02:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Well if it was taken in 1934 then it's a 90% statistical chance of being UK as they play about 25 games on an England tour and only 3-4 against TAA, WA before leaving for Australia. The ground seems a bit too developed for WACA/Tas in teh old days?  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I must admit that the long sleeved sweater on Ponny and the long coats on the sightscreen attendants all scream "England" to me too. -- Mattinbgn\talk 03:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The crowd all seem to be wearing coats, unless everyone wear brown shirts, which is unlikely  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not the TCA ground in Hobart.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 06:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Ashes-relevant FA for Main Page?
Incidentally, which Ashes-relevant FAs have not yet been on Main Page? Might be nice to have one for day 1 of the series. --Dweller (talk) 11:00, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see Paul Collingwood's not yet been on MP, so perhaps him? He's likely to be playing in the First Test... --Dweller (talk) 11:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not an Englishman :P lol  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:04, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hush, the man was awarded an MBE by the Queen for his Ashes-winning efforts, every one of his 17 runs a masterpiece! (I'm not at all bitter about 2005, I only throw darts at my Gary Pratt picture every second day now!) Seriously, as Collingwood is likely to be playing in the series, he would be an excellent choice. -- Mattinbgn\talk 11:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And was used a defensive option so England didn't loose on the the flattest of pitches at the Oval. Australians should have got an MBE for winning 06/07 Ashes! They're getting John Buchanan to come and help! Shows they're desperate!!  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He did score a great double century at Adelaide in 06/07 and regardless of the final result of that Test, no one can take that away from him. -- Mattinbgn\talk 11:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Others could be Harry Trott, Bill O'Reilly (although a page move request will follow immediately after), Ian Chappell or Sid Barnes (quite a good article and an interesting character). Kevin Pietersen would be something a bit more current. Personally, if we had time I think that 2005 Ashes series (or god forbid) Australian cricket team in England in 1981 would be good projects to get to FA for this purpose. -- Mattinbgn\talk
 * If Billy Bowden was super human and somehow saw Kapers gloves were off the bat and gave him not out, I'd be interested in the 2005 Ashes series.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The lead really needs some trimming.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a GA. I don't think we have time to get it to FA and then request it. --Dweller (talk) 11:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I still like my past idea of having Bill O'Reilly's article on the main page on the other Bill O'Reilly's birthday, but then I do have a strange sense of humour... Andrew nixon (talk) 12:31, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll second KP. I didn't even know it was a FA. Nice work, chaps. July 8th (first day, first Test) is currently not being claimed at WP:TFAR. KP's article could be worth 4+ points, according to the TFAR system: 2 pts for passing FAC 2+ years earlier, 1pt relevant date, potentially 1 pt if someone involved in the article hasn't previously requested a TFA, plus points if we've not had a similar article recently on MP. Have we? --Dweller (talk) 11:44, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He mightn't be playing :D  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:49, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I presume you think England will find a stack of better batsmen between now and July 9th. Lol. --Dweller (talk) 11:50, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The last cricket bio on MP was Clem Hill on 19 December 2008, so it has been a little while and certainly time for an Englishman. -- Mattinbgn\talk 11:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * KP on the main page is great idea in my opinion. Nev1 (talk) 12:15, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

User:MDCollins was the main man at the FAC, so I'll notify him of this thread. I suggest we give this at least another 12+ hours to let people in other time zones chip in, but it'd be nice to get an application in asap. --Dweller (talk) 13:30, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What about W G Grace? He after all is the man who caused the Ashes!  His article is very good although it doesn't seem to have been through any of these review processes.  --Orrelly Man (talk) 20:41, 16 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the heads-up Dweller. I like either Collingwood or KP - both are likely to be playing. I guess KP would be the most appropriate, but either will do for me. Obviously a 'history' article would also be a good choice, but none of them are in great shape at the moment. As I did a lot of work getting KP to FA, I don't mind putting the nomination in - I'll give it until the morning (GMT) and see what people think.&mdash;MDCollins (talk) 22:29, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

MDCollins has placed a request at WP:TFAR for KP to be on Main Page on July 8th. Good luck. --Dweller (talk) 12:28, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

It looks like it is KP on 8 July. That gives us around two weeks to give the article a good once-over. So, what needs doing? -- Mattinbgn\talk 07:32, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Philipjelley
Has anyone else noticed his write up of Australian cricket team in England in 1953 etc? Good info but the tone and style isn't ideal. Does anyone like explaining these things?  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 07:12, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Noticed his edit here  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 07:30, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Can we have some eyes on the Neil Harvey article. style of writing not too good...  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 07:37, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've been watching his work on English cricket team in Australia in 1954–55. I'm glad to see that article expanded, but again there are some issues with the tone and style. I've been waiting for him to finish, after which I plan to go through the article and do a bit of copyediting. JH (talk page) 08:13, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The edits do represent mainstream scholarly cricket POV, he definitely is not a POV pusher.  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 08:40, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hopefully he can become a regular.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 09:24, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I've welcomed and invited him to CRIC. I must say I got welcomed by about 4-5 people when I first turned up and made some only small edits, although to be honest I haven't been setting a good example with helping new users as much as I should have  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 07:49, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope I haven't scared him off  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 01:35, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He's still with us, happily  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

While we're at it, can we also keep an eye on Shahid Afridi because IP 114.77.210.6 is back.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 08:15, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

This could be a valuable resource
The British Library has made its 19th century newspaper atchive available online. Searches are free, but unfortunately there's a charge if you want to download abything. More info in this BBC news story about it. The link to the actual site that the BBC gives doesn't appear to work, though! JH (talk page) 09:27, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This link is to the gateway in the main BL site. --Orrelly Man (talk) 04:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Early life of Keith Miller‎
Is now a FA! Great job YM.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 00:22, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ponsford! First Brianboulton endorsed cricket FA!  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 01:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Must be good!  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 05:51, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

2009 ICC World Twenty20
This article could be worth considering for WP:ITN once both games today have finished. -- Mattinbgn\talk 12:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * And it might get a few visits from our Pak sock buddies :(  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 00:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

England Women's World Champions!!!! Well done girls. England's only chance in the Ashes is for Charlotte Edwards excellent team to take Ponting's boys on. Nick mallory (talk) 13:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Missing greats
Working through the year in sports series (to the 1880s so far), I've included the leading batsman and bowler for each English season in the cricket sections. This has thrown up three very significant redlinks in George Chatterton, leading batsman in 1851; George Wootton, leading bowler twice in the 1860s; and Thomas Humphrey, leading batsman twice in the 1860s. In fact, Wootton and Humphrey were leaders in the same season in 1867.

There is a bare statistical record in CricketArchive for each of these players which would suffice to create stubs, but I wonder if anyone has some useful biographical material that would be more appropriate for starting new articles? Thanks. --Orrelly Man (talk) 06:41, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Began Thomas Humphrey, he also has three brothers, one of which has played some significant fc cricket, the others one or two matches for Surrey. SGGH ping! 10:05, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent. I can delete Thomas Humphrey from my personal "to do" list. JH (talk page) 18:00, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I've now expanded the article a bit. He died aged only 39, which makes the cause of death of some interest, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find out anything on that. JH (talk page) 19:10, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes I noticed that, however there aren't too many conflicts in 1878 he could have been involved with - particularly as if he had served overseas he presumably would have played for some sort of services XI, or certainly not been able to play for a county for very long. I'll keep browsing. SGGH ping! 19:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah, he died of "congestion of the lungs" in Brookwood Asylum. They probably mean pulmonary edema but the source calls it congestion so that's what I've put. SGGH ping! 19:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That seems the best thing. It's sad, assuming that Brookwood Asylum was then (as it certainly was later) a "lunatic asylum". Evidently he had a mental problem, and then probably contacted the lung disease at the asylum after being committed there. He was still umpiring in f-c matches in 1877, the year before he died, but didn't do any umpiring in the summer of 1878. Presumably he had been committed to the asylum at some point prior to the season beginning. If that's where he died then, in spite of CA and other sources saying Knaphill as place of death, I'd say Brookwood, as that's where the institution is. (Knaphill is the next village to Brookwood.) JH (talk page) 19:30, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I would suspect that 'congestion of the lungs' could also mean congestive cardiac failure as well. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:12, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Also possible, poor chap. SGGH ping! 13:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

BUMP! I've only just realised that these three articles have been kicked off. Thanks to all above and to Nick mallory for setting them up. --Orrelly Man (talk) 13:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Test Umpires Notability
Test umpires are notable right? Someone doesn't think Cortez Jordan is. Nick mallory (talk) 14:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

No mention of Final on Main page
There is still no mention of Final on main page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.71.181.215 (talk) 17:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Be bold and suggest it at the news template. SGGH ping! 18:40, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Dual sportsmen infoboxes
Please see the discussion at the football wikiproject: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football --Dweller (talk) 10:43, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Done - the cricket infobox works well as a secondary 'box where necessary (cos I made any possible duplicate information optional) - can we encourage the other sports to do the same, rather than a one-box-fits-all solution?&mdash;MDCollins (talk) 02:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/John the bookmaker controversy/archive1
Teh bookmaker who gave money to Warne and M Waugh  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Ireland flags
The Ireland cricket team finally has its flag in the article, but does anyone know how to make it part of the little flag templates used in articles such as 2009 ICC World Twenty20. At the moment, it looks a bit silly that Ireland's the only one without a flag. Nev1 (talk) 11:04, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure that the logo/flag is actually copyrighted and so any derivative/version of it copyrighted also, meaning that's mis-tagged as PD. If that's the case, then it wouldn't be suitable to be in the templates under WP:NFC 3a, I'm afraid. Fwiw, the flag *used* to be in the templates but was removed for that reason. AllynJ (talk | contribs) 12:13, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

The simple joined shamrock logo used by Cricket Ireland is not copyrighted. CI's shamrock and cricket ball logo is copyrighted however but thankfully it's not the one used by Cricket Ireland on their flag. If it's ok to use the West Indies Cricket flag, I'm assuming it's ok to use the Cricket Ireland flag. Saebhiar Adishatz 00:28, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * To answer the initial question (in case you hadn't already found out) you would edit here. However I'm clueless as to whether there's a possible copyright issue or not. --Jpeeling (talk) 22:03, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is there any progress on a decision being made? --Jpeeling (talk) 21:52, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I was speaking to my colleague at CricketEurope Barry Chambers the other night, who also functions as Cricket Ireland's media manager. He confirmed that the flag is NOT copyrighted. Andrew nixon (talk) 07:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

eyes needed on Afridi, Misbah, Younis Khan
A SPA devoted to hyping up Pashtun people has taken to changing the first sentence of thse articles to "is a Pashtun". A very common type of editor on the subcontinent unfortunately. Racial pride is highly prevalent  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 02:50, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks folks  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 07:36, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * He's been blocked permenantly, it seems. I removed it from Afridi, and I think it's already gone from the others. I redirected in my edit summary to here in case any discussion evolves. Presumably, if the comments on ethnic origin are correct, it would/should be mentioned in some sort of early life section? SGGH ping! 09:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just a mention of their place of birth is enough.
 * I think the following statement by yellowmonkey is enough in this regard.

Players are not selected on race and many Pashtuns/Punjabis/Sindhis/Muhajjir have represented Pak. This is one reason why Quetta Bears have many foregin players.

'''yousaf465'  16:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Eton v Harrow
Surprised there was no article. Had a go - lots more to say! -- Testing times (talk) 18:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice start. Cite it and away you go for DYK. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent. That was another on my (very long) personal "to do" list. JH (talk page) 18:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly sure - but far from certain - that it's Harrow School, not Harrow College... there's a rather sizable demographic gap between the two which gives it away :) AllynJ (talk | contribs) 11:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're right. I see that it's now been corrected. JH (talk page) 16:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Source of Images
I have organised some free images that relate to cricket on Flickr. There are two sets and  of freely usable images. I can upload them to Wikipedia/WikiCommons and avaliable for use, on request. Please alert me on my talk page as I will most likely not return here, thanks,   The Windler    talk  11:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks and great stuff. The WWC photos will be especially useful. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 11:20, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You jet! Looked after the Tassie boys as well. I'll add them this week.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I uploaded a couple of the WWC ones to commons about a week ago (they certainly look familiar), I hadn't spotted the other cricket set though! --AMBerry (talk) 12:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Any of Boycott or Bumble? SGGH ping! 20:00, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Not very good, but in the absence of... Johnlp (talk) 14:36, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Michael Vaughan
To no-one's great surprise 'Former England captain Michael Vaughan will retire from first-class cricket after Yorkshire's Twenty20 game on Sunday, BBC Sport understands.' Maybe time to spruce up his article and watch for any unwelcome additions at the same timeNick mallory (talk) 12:09, 28 June 2009 (UTC)?


 * There was already a note in the article that Vaughan is expected to retire. Regardless of where it appears, it's still rumour and speculation so I have removed it. Some rumours become note worthy, at the moment this one isn't. There's been speculation about his retirement since he first bust his knee. Nev1 (talk) 12:16, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The Times today says there will be a press conference to announce it tomorrow. Johnlp (talk) 09:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Wish he was in the ashes.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 09:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sad. Great to watch at his languid best, especially those cover drives  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 00:51, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not so great in the field though :-P I feel sorry for the Yorkshire fans because Michael Vaughan in full flow would be a fantastic sight to be able to watch on a regular basis. At least when Trescothick retired from international cricket the county circuit wasn't deprived of his talent. Vaughan's dip has gone on too long and there may be some underlying problem; considering he's not at his peak his heart may not be in the game. Nev1 (talk) 01:07, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The "underlying problem" is his knee. According to the Sunday Telegraph it's still too bad for him to be able to field for a full day, and I think he's had to accept that he would never be fully fit again. JH (talk page) 08:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Graham Thorpe retired just before the last Ashes when he was left out of the team. Let's hope this sad news is a good omen as well! I'm still of the opinion that our tremendous women's team would have more chance of success against Ponting's crew. Nick mallory (talk) 11:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Vaughan was one of the great under achievers. A test average of just 41 and 27 in ODI's does not show his talent. He was the only Englishmen to dominate Australia in the 02/03 Ashes and produced the first century of the 2005 Ashes.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 11:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * With the standard of bowling that he faced, he should have averaged 55  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 00:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I think if anything he overachieved. Look at his first class average, it was never anything special. He had one great series as a batsman, one great series as a captain when he had a formidable pace attack which they still only won by the skin of their teeth. He's the most successful England captain ever and scored 18 (?) test hundreds though, you can't knock that. Nick mallory (talk) 01:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Hello, I just want to inform you that I proposed a merge at Talk:List of Test cricket grounds.--Crzycheetah 02:57, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

July 8th Main Page
See Today's featured article/July 8, 2009. Thanks to Raul and the requests page crew, and to MDCollins for his work on the article.

It needs some good spring cleaning before July 8th. I'm busy with copyediting Luton Town F.C., but will get over there as soon as I can. Meanwhile, the more the merrier: dive in, the water's lovely. --Dweller (talk) 10:12, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's Kevin Pietersen, incidentally. SGGH ping! 10:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Great! Are we allowed to change the lead summary? Some bits have been left out (ie the South African born bit), which means some of the latter sentences don't make quite so much sense. Also the bit listing his clubs looks a little odd (reading "Hampshire County Cricket Club, England and was captain of the IPL side..."). I'd simplify the England captaincy bit to "He was England captain from whatever the dates are, but resigned after just 3 Tests and x ODIs". Can I just edit it now, or does it need approving etc?&mdash;MDCollins (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just make a copy and I can swap it. Md isn't an admin IIRC. Also, I think the IPL thing should be canned. He played about 5 games = 2 days of full cricket. NN  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 02:32, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I've drafted another lead at T:KP so please edit/comment etc.&mdash;MDCollins (talk) 10:50, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Commented on the knee thing. I think some 2008/09 things are missing but don't follow England too closely  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 01:36, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Good point, considering all England did for 6 months was play the West Indies there's not enough detail. Nev1 (talk) 01:41, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The essay like thing about the knee is by User:Robertson-Glasgow who has planted a bunch of stuff by this newspaper fellow on many articles. Does User RG write like the real RG???  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 07:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Not really. :) But then nobody wrote quite like the real RG. JH (talk page) 09:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Chaps, just a quick apology - I'm unlikely to be able to spend much time on this, or any other Wikipedia work for a little while. --Dweller (talk) 09:15, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

New copy for main page: Kevin Pietersen (born 1980) is an English international cricketer who plays domestic cricket for Hampshire County Cricket Club. Born in South Africa, Pietersen made his first-class debut for Natal. In 2001, he moved to England, joining Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club, to further his opportunities for playing at international level after voicing his displeasure at the racial quota system in place in South Africa. He qualified to play for England in 2004 making his One Day International (ODI) debut in November, and his Test match debut in the 2005 Ashes series. The attacking right-handed batsman and occasional off spin bowler became the fastest batsman to reach both 1000 and 2000 runs in ODI cricket, and has the highest average of any England player to have played more than 20 innings of one-day cricket. In July 2008, after a century against South Africa, The Times called him "the most complete batsman in cricket". He was appointed England captain in August 2008 but resigned in January 2009, after just three Tests and nine ODIs, following a dispute with England coach Peter Moores. Pieteresen has the second highest run-total from his first 25 Tests (behind only Donald Bradman and was only the fourth player in history to score 1,000 Test runs in three consecutive calendar years. (more...

User:YellowMonkey can you have a read/tweak and oblige please? A reminder that if people could have a quick check of the article before Wednesday, that'd be great.&mdash;MDCollins (talk) 15:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Can the playing info in the main article for the last 12 months be expanded? Unfortunately the article is in a worse state than when it passed FAR  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 03:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

FAR for A. E. J. Collins
nominated A. E. J. Collins for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.Cirt (talk) 13:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

First-class status of 18th century matches
Are these three matches considered first-class? Jevansen (talk) 13:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * CricketArchive includes the 1783 match as a "Major" match, which I believe they take to be equivalent to first-class, though they also include a note that suggests Kent actually won the match. They include the earliest two in their list of "Other matches" though. I'd suggest that the 1783 match should definitely be included, but I'm not sure about the first two. Andrew nixon (talk) 13:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I know that BlackJack thinks that "major" matches prior to 1801 (the start date used by the ACS and hebce by CA) should be considered f-c. For more on this issue, see Variations in first-class cricket statistics. JH (talk page) 20:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Grr
My evil father has managed to wangle a ticket to the Edgebaston Test (day 2 I think) of the Ashes. I am disgruntled! But I have asked him to snap as many photographs as possible. I've met Marcus Trescothick, Justin Langer, Craig Kieswetter, Joel Garner, Ashley Giles, Bob Willis, John Arlott, Charles Colville and Michael Atherton but Trescothick and Willis were the only photographs I could ever get :(

Curious as to who on here has met whom... anyone? Above is my list. SGGH ping! 16:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I met David Hughes]] at a cricket coaching thing in 1991 - and bowled him no less. Not sure if being bowled by an 11 year old had anything to do with him retiring that year. I've met former Irish international John Elder, but that's hardly surprising considering he's my boss at CricketEurope. Whilst covering the European Under-19 championship last year I met two other former Irish internationals - Matthew Dwyer and Ryan Eagleson, along with Scotland Under-19 coach Craig Wright and the Dutch coach Ryan Maron along with probably a few future Irish/Scottish/Dutch/Danish internationals too - one was Calum MacLeod. I met Adrian Birrell the other week, who's a great bloke. I'm covering the European A Championship next month where I'll be hoping to meet the Irish and Dutch coaches - Trent Johnston and Roland Lefebvre. Andrew nixon (talk) 17:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of David Hughes (cricketer), there is something very odd about that infobox. SGGH ping! 17:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I met the entire 1988 West Indian squad, and Viv Richards terrified me. A few years later I met Sir Garry Sobers, which was if anything an even worse experience. I had a lovely chat with Sir Clive Lloyd during a rain break at Headingley, in the match in which Gooch carried his bat (I forget the year, early 90s). I've also met a number of English cricketers, notably chatting with Mark Ramprakash after his Middlesex debut (Sunday league game I think, possibly against Sussex). Bill Frindall was a gentleman, and Derek Randall was good fun. Can't think of any more for now. --Dweller (talk) 20:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Joel Garner walked past me and said "hey there, alright?" and I was a bit preoccupied with something else so just muttered "alright?" and then a few moments later clocked who it was I was talking too... embarrassing! I'd like to meet Gooch, and Ponting and Gower. SGGH ping! 20:36, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Only spoken to Ricky Ponting, Shoaib Akhtar. Along with most of the Tasmanian Cricket Team.  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 20:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I can only remember meeting four; James Kirtley (back in his England days, got his autograph lying around the house somewhere), David Fulton (occasionally see him on the train–I'd be prepared to swear he lives in my home town now!), Marcus Trescothick and Graham Ford. All throughly nice gents. -AMBerry (talk) 21:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and Rob Key SGGH ping! 21:30, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Back in 1983, my friend Damian & I bowled to most of the Australian team at the Adelaide Oval during practice. With a lot of people watching on, Kim Hughes, who was sadly out of form at the time, was bowled neck and crop by 12 year old Damian's innocuous medium pacers. Rod Marsh, who was next to the nets signing autographs, just sadly shook his head. Damian would later claim he was directly responsible for Hughes's career ending. --Roisterer (talk) 13:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Keith Exton
What, no article? He may be the most talked-about person in two (or is three?) countries shortly. -- Mattinbgn\talk 11:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

A follow-up question, there is an article in Sicilian about The Ashes but not one in Welsh (The Ashes or Y Lludw)&mdash;are the Welsh actually interested in this series? -- Mattinbgn\talk 12:08, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I had to google. Never heard of him. but what's so controversial about a curator. It's not as though Old Trafford 1956 has turned up, or even Mumbai 2004. what's wrong with a bowler's pitch??  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 12:23, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * My tongue was in my cheek (but only slightly). One hates to be a suspicious little bunny but I don't put it past perfidious Albion pulling another Old Trafford 1956 or even just a Headingley 1972 (I bet the ECB are working on a new fusarium strain as we speak!). Nothing wrong with a bowler's pitch, but turners on demand leading to three day Tests will be unpopular in Aust. and the UK. -- Mattinbgn\talk 12:32, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * the flat track bullies have had it too good for too long!  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 12:40, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec) You wouldn't be complaining if Hauritz wasn't the best spinner Australia had to offer :-P As for the Welsh, the few people I know don't seem to care about the cricket if Simon Jones was playing it might be different) and true to stereotype are more concerned about the Lions rugby tour to South Africa that just finished. Nev1 (talk) 12:42, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Cymru am byth. Iechyd da. Johnlp (talk) 20:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * On my one trip to Cardiff to date, I flicked the television in the hotel room on to S4C and watched for a little while. I don't know what I was expecting but it was quite eerie listening to people who looked almost quintessentially British speaking an incomprehensible language with the odd very familiar English word thrown in. Is there Welsh language coverage of the cricket? -- Mattinbgn\talk 09:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hilfenhaus and Hauritz over Clarke? Oh no...  Aaroncrick (Tassie Boy talk) 09:55, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ...so deprived of their most experience bowler, Australia decided to ditch their second most experienced bowler? It must be a cunning plan. Nev1 (talk) 10:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

List of international cricket centuries by Sourav Ganguly
I've worked on this article earlier, and believe it is ready for a featured list review. I'd be grateful if someone could nominate it, since I'm unsure of how to do so. Thank you- Abeer.ag (talk) 18:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)