Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cricket/Archive 94

Frederick Jackman
Hi all. I'm still waiting on my access to the BNA to be rectified (been literally months now!), but just wondering if anyone with access could check the coroners inquest into his death in 1891 here. Might be a possibility his death was involved with playing. Cheers in advance, StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 22:38, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Here is the full transcript:"HORNDEAN.—DEATH IN THE CRICKET FIELD.—A sad case of death while at cricket occurred on Saturday evening. From the facts elicited at the Coroner's inquest, held at the Ship and Bell, Horndean, before the Coroner (E. Goble, Esq.), on Tuesday, it seems that Frederick Jackman, aged 49 years, a watchmaker and professional cricketer, living at Horndean; and William Coulting, a butler, were playing cricket at about 6 o'clock. The deceased had been batting for a few minutes, when some men came onto the ground. A match was arranged, and sides were chosen; that on which Jackman was to play going in first. The deceased was batting, and he had made eight runs. He struck a ball, delivered by George Chandler, and it run up his bat and over his left shoulder; but it did not appear to have hit him. Immediately afterwards he changed the bat to his left hand, and struck another ball, when, without saying a word or uttering an exclamation, he fell dead. Coulting, who was standing a few yards off, was closely questioned as to whether there had been any quarrelling; but he assured the Coroner there had not. The deceased made no complaint; and Coulting did not think he had over-reached himself. Dr. R. G. Strong saw the body; and, as a result of a post mortem examination, made in conjunction with Dr. Norman (of Havant), he attributed death to syncope due to fatty degeneration of the heart, and probably accelerated by over-exertion on a full stomach.—The Jury returned a verdict of "Death from natural causes.""


 * wjematherplease leave a message... 14:33, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks, much appreciated. Note to self, don't play cricket on a full stomach! I also wonder if the George Chandler mentioned is this guy? Right era. Probably an unsolvable hunch! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 18:12, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Dhanraj Parimal Nathwani (2nd nomination)
Hello, WikiProject Cricket,

I don't think we have a deletion sort for cricket so I just wanted to bring this AFD to your project's attention. Some interesting points have been brought up and I think discussion would be improved if we had some more editors who are knowledgeable about cricket participate. Thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 22:47, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, I have mentioned my opinion there at AfD. Thank you ! Fade258 (talk) 05:46, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * there is a deletion sort - top of this page has a link to the page where they get aggregated. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Desmond Eagar
Hi all. I've made a start on expanding this legendary Hampshire captain. His career and impact on Hampshire was quite substantial, leading what was one of the weakest counties to become one of the strongest by the end of the 1950s (paving the way for CC success in 1961). As such, if anyone has any written sources they would like to add to the article to expand it, that would be very welcome. I think he certainly has GA potential if enough can be sourced for a decent expansion. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 12:58, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) has an RFC
Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 06:34, 8 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Specifically: Village pump (proposals)/Archive 205
 * -- A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 01:22, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Charles Baldwin (cricketer)
Hello. Can anyone rescue Charles Baldwin (cricketer) listed at village pump by expanding it? Thanks. 2A01:CB1C:1339:FE00:8CC8:4AA2:6C87:D8A4 (talk) 15:00, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I confess that, even though I'm interested in cricket history and a follower of Surrey, I hadn't heard of him. But as someone who on at least one occasion scored a thousand runs in a season and whose highest score was 234, he's clearly notable. Only one of my three histories of Surrey mentions him, and that only in passing, but his Wisden obituary (always a good place to look) was helpful, so I've been able to expand his article a bit. JH (talk page) 15:51, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Have added some more details about his brief foray into minor counties cricket with Suffolk, plus his six first-class matches where he stood as an umpire. Also added an expanded infobox. I didn't look, but I expect the British Newspaper Archive might have some hits. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 19:32, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Also was reputedly recommended to Surrey by the umpire Bob Thoms. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 19:38, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

There's plenty there to take that one off the list. David Partridge (cricketer) might be worth a look. And Joseph Comber, who's not on the initial list, looks interesting. Cambridge, MCC, wartime service, married in 1943 in Baghdad and I suspect he was born in Berlin in 1911 with an Austrian father... Blue Square Thing (talk) 20:05, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It's my biggest concern with this VP proposal, that notable players are going to be deleted en-masse and forgotten about. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 03:55, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, certainly. If we can ge targeted lists with team names I think it'll help a bit - 4,000 names to look through is impossible; 150 who played for Auckland is more doable. Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:44, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

He should be removed from the village pump proposal, it just looks ludicrous that he is there. Has anyone tried to lift him out? Desertarun (talk) 10:20, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly certain the query will be re-run at the end of the process and people who no longer meet the criteria for inclusion will be removed. If anyone spots an article without a hyperlinked reference beyond CI and CA that would be worth noting here as those are maybe the ones that might slip through. If they did then a revert of the move to draft would be entirely justifiable Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:44, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

County Ground, Southampton picture
Does anyone have any books with a photo of the County Ground in it? I'm sure there are grounds to use such a photo on here under fair use, seeing as the ground was demolished over 20 years ago (hence we cannot just go and take a photo!). StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 17:43, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * How about using this one, maybe cropping out Banister Court Stadium? Harrias  (he/him) • talk 08:50, 17 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Good find. Do you know what licence to use? I rarely frequent Commons! I see the website has something about no cropping, but I'm guessing there is a fair use rationale to get around that? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Paywalls
I present this as a point of interest: the website 12ft works on many paywalled websites, including news sites and cricket stats sites.

I do not encourage or discourage anyone to use it but I've found it a useful way to check paywalled sources already linked on pages. Do with this information what you will. MsJoat (talk) 14:36, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Cheers for sharing this. There's one site I regularly use and I press 'escape' to view it, gotta be quick though! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 16:54, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This website usually works on that one site too. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:53, 25 July 2023 (UTC)

Women's cricket - page assessment
Over the past two weeks I've been plugging away at the Women's cricket page to make it more of an overview of the women's game. I'm far from done - see my Plan for Improvement - but it's got to be due for an upgrade from Start class. Can one of the assessment team look it over please? MsJoat (talk) 16:44, 25 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that we really have much of an assessment team here. We're a small bunch of editors and I know assessing isn't an area I really go much into and when I have articles up for review, they often take many weeks or months to be picked up. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 16:56, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice work. I'll have a read through and make any cosmetic changes I find, then change the assessment for you. Desertarun (talk) 18:38, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The assessment criteria are here -Content assessment. I've updated it to C class. The bare minimum to go up to B is for more or less every paragraph to have a ref, and any statements to have a ref. And then the gaps currently missing as in your plan would need to be filled. Desertarun (talk) 18:58, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I wasn't expecting B Class yet. I've not yet touched any of the original text (only added) and there's plenty more still to do but, hey, it's progress. MsJoat (talk) 19:05, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No worries. I'll watch the article and re-assess later. If I have time i'll edit a little here or there but don't have the resources to add new content. Keep up the good work! Desertarun (talk) 19:11, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice work! I had a quick look at it a couple of days ago, when I was alerted to it by a notification that a wiki-link to the WCA v- an article that is on my watch list - had been added. JH (talk page) 08:37, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * If I have any energy left after I'm done, I'm planning on adding to the WCA - I've certainly got enough sources for it. MsJoat (talk) 11:19, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Merge needed
Indian Premier League controversies has had a consensus to merge into Indian Premier League since April, however this merge has not been done. I'm clearly WP:INVOLVED as I started the AFD that led to the merge consensus, but would someone uninvolved be able to look into merging this appropriately? Joseph2302 (talk) 14:33, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There's also 2023 Women's Premier League Final which has a consensus to merge into 2023 Women's Premier League (cricket) since April too. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:42, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Out of curiosity (as the discussion took place before I was involved with cricket on here) did nobody really think the solution might be to just write more about women's cricket rather than leave the women's tournament without a final page?
 * (I'm not looking to reopen or rehash the discussion but where articles about women are concerned, I'd always rather see them expanded. Otherwise an already male dominated niche is just going to perpetuate Wikipedia's gender bias even with the WP:WCRIC. Also, a nom for deletion the day after the final, seems a little WP:TOOSOON.) MsJoat (talk) 16:00, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Not a gender bias from my side, as I don't think the men's IPL needs one either (nor almost any other cricket tournament other than World Cups, as none of them are necessary WP:SPLITs- you can see that said by me in the AFD linked). And WP:TOOSOON says the opposite of what you're trying to achieve- it says articles shouldn't be created when not enough information is known, it's not a rationale for keeping articles on recent events. All I'm asking for is help in implementing some consensuses by a non-involved editor, if people want to re-debate the merits of the AFDs, then WP:DRV is the correct venue. Joseph2302</b> (talk) 10:24, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

GA nomination for Christ Church Ground
Hi all. Whilst assessment seems on the forefront of discussion here, I wondered if anyone would be kind enough to review my GA nomination for the Christ Church Ground at Oxford. The review page hasn't been created, but I have provided the link here. Cheers in advance. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 10:00, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've taken this one. Will post my comments as soon as practical. Desertarun (talk) 19:19, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Cheers Desertarun! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 09:15, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Another BNA request
Would someone with BNA access be kind enough to double-check if Bruce Lamb's death in March 1932 was a suicide by hanging? Article here. Cheers in advance, StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:41, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The coroner's jury recorded a verdict of "suicide while of unsound mind", and the death was by gas poisoning in his office. The evidence from Lamb's doctor, who had pronounced him dead, was that Lamb was suffering from "a severe and progressive form of heart disease. Mr Lamb's life was always on a hair, and he was liable to sudden death at any moment. In addition to that the heart trouble led to mental disturbances. Mr Lamb was liable to convulsive seizures and attacks of unconsciousness." The gas supply to the fire in Lamb's office had been turned on but the gas had not been lit. The headline on the article is "Inquest on Ald. Bruce Lamb." and there's a second heading in quote marks: "Life Hung on a Hair." It's in the Hampshire Advertiser, 26 March 1932, page 8. Johnlp (talk) 23:29, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * PS. There's a second straightforward report of the death in the same newspaper, on the back page (page 16), which records that Lamb had been elected to Andover Town Council in 1907 and had been made an alderman in 1923. He had been formerly chairman of the local Conservative association and was also prominent in two local masonic lodges. He was married (his wife sent people into his office when he failed to return home from work), but her name is not given in either report, and I cannot see any report in any later paper of a funeral, which is perhaps not surprising in view of the suicide verdict. Johnlp (talk) 23:45, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Many thanks John, much appreciated. Seems this sad suicide was missed by Frith in Silence Of The Heart: Cricket Suicides. A very boring looking stub turned out to be a quite interesting cricketer in the end! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 17:26, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * From reading the report, I was slightly surprised that a suicide verdict was brought in. The jury foreman asked if it was plausible Lamb knocked the gas tap on in an accidental fall, and was told that it was. And the doctor's evidence seemed to suggest that Lamb could have passed out after turning the gas on, but before he could light it. There was no record of what the coroner (actually, the deputy coroner) said, which would have presumably influenced the jury's verdict. And of course we have no other evidence to go on. But one would have thought that with a prominent and respectable chap such as Lamb, they'd have pulled out all the stops to avoid a suicide verdict if they could. Johnlp (talk) 20:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd suspect his mental health problems probably formed part of the deputy coroners summing up, which probably swayed the jury to return that result. Lamb himself was a deputy coroner, so I wonder if the deputy coroner was acquainted with him? It is surprising they didn't try to return a verdict which avoided that taboo. As you noted above, he doesn't seem to be mentioned very much following his death, which I agree is probably as a result of the verdict. Sad all round really, he didn't sound like he had a particularly pleasant last few years of his life. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 20:07, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

2023 W-Ashes article
in the 2023 Women's Ashes article, there's no mention of the three matches against Ireland, and rightly so, because it's a page for the Ashes. However, where should that be added? Clearly it's not worth its own page, but i guess it should be somewhere. The 2015 article has a title that accomodates both, but I saw the 2023 talk page and it has a discussion on exactly that. Thanks a lot! Nautilusblue8 (talk) 13:18, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There is separate article Australia women's cricket team in Ireland in 2023 for these. Maybe the 2015 one should be split too. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 13:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't see that somehow. no idea about the 2015 page, but thanks for this! Nautilusblue8 (talk) 13:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As it's an Ashes tour rather than a standard one, I'm going to split it. Wouldn't bother if it was any other combined tour - women's teams do those quite often, I suspect because of funding - but Ashes is a Thing. MsJoat (talk) 09:57, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for moving the page. Couldn't work out why it wouldn't let me move it to "2015 Women's Ashes". *facepalm* Clearly haven't had enough coffee yet. MsJoat (talk) 10:37, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

The Hundred
(I can already hear the groans.)

However, @Blue Square Thing and I are having a discussion about stats tables at Talk:The Hundred (cricket) and would like to invite you to comment.

I'd especially like to invite members of WP:WCRIC, as this relates to one of the most covered women's tournaments rn. MsJoat (talk) 09:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)


 * There are some general sorts of discussions going on that could impact the way that we do things like flags and colour in squad tables here btw as well as the way that we present stats. People might want to swing by and take a look if they have strong views about those sorts of things. Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:41, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Peverell Park (or what's left of it) photo
Just wondering if any project members might live close to Peverell Park in Plymouth and would be able to get a photo of what remains of the ground? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 22:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Second XI (Australian cricket competition)
This competition, formerly known as the Futures League, hasn't received much love from Cricket Australia in recent years (so much so that, as I learned, they no longer even crown a champion).

Its WP page was outdated, inaccurate and needing a lot of love.

I've put a day or two's work into writing up some history, sourcing results and records from every season, and gathering the required references.

If anyone feels like they could lend a hand to my current revision and improve it in any way, feel free – information is scarce, but it is out there. Thanks! Gibbsyspin 02:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Lofty Herman
Hello all. I've just began the expansion of this 322 FC appearance Hampshire cricketer (+ over 200 FC matches as an umpire). I was wondering if anyone has any written sources which talk about Herman, as I don't! With over 1,000 FC wickets, he should be quite a substantial article once expanded. Cheers, StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 10:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

County Championship table
Would anyone know how to fix the 2023 County Championship table so that Middlesex have the correct number of points, currently 87? I think the issue is their draw with Northants in July, which ended with the scores level. The team batting last gets 8 points for a draw in this case, rather than the usual 5 but I can't see any way of allowing for this in the table points setup. The table in the article (not updated for the most recent round) shows them on 81 points, which should have been 84. Does anyone have the knowledge of how to correct this? Thanks. Bcp67 (talk) 15:36, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The module's permanently protected, so you'll have to raise an edit request over at Module talk:Sports table detailing this. Hopefully someone there can help out! Buttons to Push Buttons (talk | contribs) 14:58, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thankfully the CricketCC style module isn't protected so I was able to edit it for this. There's now a drawbonus which will assign an extra 3 points without affecting the number of draws. The County Championship table should be right now. MsJoat (talk) 11:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that's great of you to fix it. I've added a note on the table re Middlesex's points as well.--Bcp67 (talk) 18:59, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Another interesting Hampshire cricketer!
Hello all. A mystery to solve here! I have begun expanding and researching Edward Hemsted (1846-1884 - allegedly!). Firstly, he seems to be known more as Edmund in reports and in the Lancing College register. I have found a record of an Edmund Hemsted as attending the University of London, matriculating in 1865, which matches his age. He briefly plays for Hampshire for a few years (1866-1869). Next I have found an Edmund Hemsted in Belfast in 1872, studying medicine at Queen's. Newspaper reports in the 1890s show an Edmund Hemsted in Newbury practicing as a surgeon (the Hemsted's were from Newbury, so must be the same person). But, the cricketer (whose father is from Newbury) dies in 1884 in Weymouth? I haven't found any news articles reporting on this under either Edmund or Edward; however, a victim of crime in Weymouth by the same name is present in early 1884 news reports. There is another Edward Hemsted from Newbury knocking about on The Gazette, he is a soldier, but the date of his first commission would make him 17, so I'm thinking this isn't the same person as the cricketer as that seems too young to be commissioned (the soldier dies in 1903).

So the question is: which Hemsted is Edward/Edmund Hemsted?
 * A). The surgeon?
 * B). The soldier?
 * C). Or the Weymouth man?

If anyone might be able to spare some time to see if I'm looking at this all wrong, that would be appreciated! I think "A" and his date of death is for the wrong person, and that CA/CI have his first name wrong. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:59, 10 September 2023 (UTC)


 * I think, with a brief look, that the cricketer is probably C and is neither a surgeon nor a soldier. And he is Edward Hemsted. His father, Tobias Rustal (maybe Rustat) Hemsted, was indeed part of a Berkshire family, but was a surgeon at Whitchurch (Hampshire, but not far from Newbury) by 1836 when he married. Tobias appeared in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses at Whitchurch and died in 1880. Edward was baptised at Whitchurch on 16 November 1846 and was in the same house as his father in the 1851 census, aged 4, and the 1871 census, aged 24, when he has no recorded occupation; in the 1881 census, he's still living with his now-widowed mother (Mary Ann) in Whitchurch and is recorded as a "brewer unemployed". On 21 August 1882, Edward Hemsted, aged 35 and with no profession declared, married Ellen Butler (aged 39) at All Saints Church, Whitchurch. Edward and Ellen Hemsted were living at Upway (Upwey) near Weymouth in September 1883 and the disappearance of some of their money was the subject of a court case in January 1884 reported in local newspapers. Hampshire burial lists have Edward Hemsted being buried at Whitchurch on 17 March 1884, with his "abode" given as "Upway, Dorset". What I can't do, with a 10-minute look, is to link this Edward Hemsted with either Lancing or London University, or indeed with Hampshire cricket. I'll see what I can find tomorrow, if anything else. Johnlp (talk) 23:46, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
 * PS. Edward Hemsted, aged 14 and born in Whitchurch, was a pupil at Chatham House School at Ramsgate in Kent at the time of the 1861 census. That correlates with his appearance for the Gentlemen of Kent in 1863 when he was described in a contemporary report as "a very young player, and a good one". Maybe more tomorrow. Johnlp (talk) 00:02, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this thorough look, John. Going to Chatham House School does answer my thought as to how he ended up playing for a Gentlemen of Kent side when no Kent connection seemed apparent. The Lancing College connection, would appear to be an error from Dave Allen at Hampshire (the Lancing Edmund Hemsted was born in 1846). Would appear that the one I thought least likely is the most likely! Thanks again :) StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 09:23, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know where Lancing comes into this, if at all. The Newbury Hemsteds look like cousins and there is at least one Edmund Hemsted in that branch of the family: an Edmund was 16 in the 1861 census, also at Chatham House School in Ramsgate. There's also an Edmund Hemsted, "medical student" in the probate records, who died on Christmas Day 1880 in Islington aged 33: his widow, Sophia, outlived him by more than 50 years, and they had two daughters, one born in Islington in 1870/71 and the second in Cape Town in 1875/76. The patriarch of the Newbury lot was also a doctor. But I think the Whitchurch chap is your man and that he doesn't seem to have bothered much with earning a living. Johnlp (talk) 10:42, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would say Lancing probably doesn't come into it, with the Hants historian having confused Edmund and Edward and merged the two into one! Somewhere along the lines is yet another Edmund Hemsted, who is a surgeon (likely specialising as a pathologist) in the 1890s in the Newbury area. What's the rule on here with using census information in articles? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 12:11, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Suspect this all counts as OR. Which it is, I suppose. If Hampshire CCC can be persuaded to amend their records to include his education and a few more facts about him, then we can quote them as a secondary source. But someone else has to do it before we can do it here. Johnlp (talk) 18:12, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll drop a comment on the Hampshire Cricket History site and see if Dave Allen picks it up. Thanks again for helping out with this one John! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 22:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Independent Commission for Equity in Cricket
We currently lack an article on the Independent Commission for Equity in Cricket, even though the publication of its report a few months ago was arguably the most significant event in English cricket this year - certainly going by the amount of media coverage it received. I don't think I have the time to write such an article myself, though I would happily proof read any article that someone else produced. JH (talk page) 08:50, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I said I was going to read the report at some point... Don't count on me to do it but it does have important tie ins with what I've been doing on the Women's cricket page so I'll need to write something significant about it at some point.MsJoat (talk) 16:36, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I made it. Independent Commission for Equity in Cricket. Desertarun (talk) 18:08, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That was quick! Thanks. I'll take a look at it, though that may have to wait until tomorrow. JH (talk page) 19:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Ehsanul Haque
A World Cup cricketer at AFD. Anybody able to find anything offline or in non-English language sourcing. Had a respectable domestic career also. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:59, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

ESPNcricinfo and umpiring stats
Anyone know why ESPNcricinfo doesn't count Tests as first-class matches for umpires? Example Hack (talk) 14:55, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The people who code their database probably got something wrong. Do you know if the same applies for ODIs not counting as List A? – PeeJay 15:03, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking at the Marais Erasmus article, the same applies for ODIs. Hack (talk) 01:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Discussion about ESPNCricinfo and CricketArchive on WP:RSN
See Reliable_sources/Noticeboard.Nigel Ish (talk) 17:52, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

Naming of Mehidy Hasan
Since the World Cup is currently on and this confusion seems to currently exist on a global scale, I want to escalate and revive a discussion I had no replies to in 2021 regarding the naming of this cricketer. We list him as "Mehidy Hasan" but I cannot find any sources using this name, and the article refers to Miraz as the shortname. Sources give the following: So given the World Cup is on, and he will be experiencing a good deal of traffic at the moment, can we get a consensus on what to call him? Spa-Franks (talk) 19:06, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * CricketArchive gives "Mehedi Hasan";
 * Cricinfo gives "Mehidy Hasan Miraz" in the page title and "Mehedi Hasan Miraz" in the prose, using "Mehedi" as the shortname;
 * The world feed covering the World Cup seemingly changes every game, he was "Mehidy Hasan Miraz", shortname "Miraz" for all the games so far except against New Zealand, where he was given as "Hasan Miraz" as the shortname;
 * Cricbuzz gives "Mehidy Hasan Miraz";
 * His own Instagram and X accounts are "Mehidy Hasan Miraz" ( @OfficialMiraz );
 * The ICC website gives "Mehidy Hassan Miraz" but very incorrectly gives his last test as being against England on 30 July 2023 and his last T20I as being against Nigeria on 14 October 2023.


 * I believe his name to be "Mehidy Hasan Miraz". Everything else is a short/nickname or spelling mistake. I don't think this is a controversial page move, so you should wait a few days to see if there are any other comments here, assuming not then move it. Desertarun (talk) 19:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I cannot overwrite the redirect so I have made a "Requested Move" er, request. Spa-Franks (talk) 12:02, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Batsman/batter
Now that women's cricket is becoming more prominent, the term "batter" is increasingly preferred to "batsman". Do we start changing the terminology in existing articles? MaxBrowne2 (talk) 11:34, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There's been a few discussions about this before in the archives. As I see it, any articles relating to only men's cricket can use either. Articles referring to women's cricket should use "batter", and generic articles about the game and the laws should also use "batter". Harrias  (he/him) • talk 11:47, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * OK I'll leave "batsman" alone. My main editing area is chess, where the literature has traditionally used "he" to refer to a generic hypothetical player, e.g. "Black must free his position with ...d5". It's a bit annoying when drive by editors with no chess knowledge come along and wholesale substitute a singular they/them/their for he/him/his without regard for style. So I won't do that to you cricket editors. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 11:57, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Iirc the general feeling is that for historical male players, we certainly keep batsman. Modern ones, we can use either Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:06, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That makes sense, not least because it would be a massive task to try to change every use of "batsman" in our past articles. JH (talk page) 15:26, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the most recent of, as mentioned, several discussions - . Blue Square Thing's recall is correct - leave the historic players as they were, and either usage is acceptable for modern male players. --Bcp67 (talk) 21:09, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

B-checklist in project template
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council § Determining the future of B-class checklists. &#x0020;This project is being notified since it is one of the 82 WikiProjects that opted-in to support B-checklists (B1-B6) in your project banner. DFlhb (talk) 11:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Glenn Maxwell's 201* vs Afghanistan, 2023
We don't have any articles on an individual innings - maybe this one could become the first. (I would argue Sobers' 365* and Dean Jones' 210, and Lara's 400* are individually notable as well - there might be a few others.) StAnselm (talk) 17:39, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As the Glenn Maxwell article is not overly long, it would easily fit in the parent article at the moment. Potentially it could be split out in the future if his biography becomes unwieldy, but I don't think there's any need right now. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 20:01, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. It's a fantastic innings, but I don't think it needs its own article, in the same way that Oleg Salenko's five goals in a single FIFA World Cup match doesn't deserve its own article. – PeeJay 20:10, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * One of the greatest ODI innings (wish I'd put £100 on Aus to win when the odds of that happening were 0.7% at one point!), but agree with the above, it can adequately be included in his article. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:27, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
 * This is all fair enough, but now an editor has added four paragraphs and about 650 words to Maxwell's article about it. StAnselm (talk) 04:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I shortened the article up last week after the other innings so I'll give it another go later today maybe.
 * On the more general issue, this one certainly needs to wait some time. If there are innings which have a longer-term significance then we'd be OK with including them - we have had Scorecard of A. E. J. Collins since 2006 (although I don't think it's ever had a reference in it and tbh it probably needs to be redirected) for example. The problem is, where do you stop? Blue Square Thing (talk) 06:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * — Articles for deletion/Scorecard of A. E. J. Collins started. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 10:09, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed. If you had an article for Maxwell's innings, your could make a case for dozens of others. Three or four Bradman innings and three or four by Stokes might qualify, for instance. JH (talk page) 07:54, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, there are lists kicking around: 30 greatest Test cricket innings of all time: from Botham to Bradman, Lara to Stokes and everything in between. StAnselm (talk) 15:14, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

How has this one...
How has this one slipped under the net for so long? I've removed the PROD tag from H. Mallawathanthre - I wonder how this initialled player has escaped. Y'alls know what I think. If this had been done 13 years ago I may have had the inclination and energy to put together lists of players for Indian and Sri Lankan teams. If anyone wishes to put together a group of "List of players for X Sri Lankan cricket clubs", please do. Too tired now. Other priorities. (For example, finding out how poorly and inconsistently biography articles are treated on the Simple English Wikipedia, especially those of sportspeople). Funnily enough - it was actually put to AfD under the argument "single source" - which as we know, is the easiest to fix...

On the other hand, this user is being criticized for over-zealous tagging. Sometimes I wonder how people come upon these articles after so long, seemingly at random. I'm surprised there are still some out there. Let's make sure the user doesn't put much more recognizable names to PROD. Bobo. 04:04, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

CWC Records FL Review
I have nominated List of Cricket World Cup records for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 11:32, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Nonsense in articles
I'm all for encouraging new users, but I think the one introducing "Google Doodles" to the CWC article and a whole range of other recent trivial stuff isn't really adding anything of substance or quality to the project? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 18:43, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm glad it was that one you spotted as I've just removed the mascot stuff that's unsourced. The Doodles were, I think, already in the article so I've reverted to that version. Feel free to delete the section as trivia, but there seems to be an awful lot of completionism going on just now - adding irrelevant detail or another (usually poorly sourced) table os stats or grounds or whatever. There are a few people reverting these sorts of things, but more eyes are better... Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Google Doodle thing is just WP:TRIVIA and isn't useful to an encyclopedic article. I've removed them. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 10:54, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There does indeed seem to be an awful lot of completionism, several which I have managed to come across and PROD/AfD them (like some articles on individual World Cup matches appearing). The quality of contributions seems sadly rather poor at the moment :( StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 22:43, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

BNA request
Hello all. Another BNA request! Would anyone be kind enough to take a look at this article and let me know what it says? I think I have solved the mystery surrounding a rather prolific Europeans cricketer. Cheers in advance. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 00:37, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I've sent it to you on an email. Johnlp (talk) 08:50, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Emerging Ireland (cricket) and Ireland Wolves cricket team - same or different?
Hi all,

I've just noticed Emerging Ireland cricket tour of West Indies 2023-24, and ran a little bit of a check with my Magic Sysop Spectacles on to see if Emerging Ireland (cricket) or similar had ever been created or WP:AFD-'d, which it hasn't.

It would appear to me that this might possibly be a re-branding of Ireland Wolves cricket team?

Your thoughts about this?

Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:12, 26 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Not entirely sure as the Wolves team played a match against Bangladesh on 5 May this year. Please see CricketIreland site. Can't see anything in that site to suggest a rebrand but will keep looking. Batagur baska (talk) 09:25, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Found this page at CricketEurope headed Ireland Wolves 2023 but reporting on the matches in Antigua as West Indies U23 v Emerging Ireland. So, it seems to be the same team operating under an alternative name, perhaps just for the Antigua series. Batagur baska (talk) 09:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Cricket Ireland is a bit of a mess administratively at the moment, but I'd say they're the same team. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:48, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Fred Grant
This discussion is of potential interest to members of this project. Hog Farm Talk 19:57, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion on 2023 American Premier League
Please review or update the page
 * Delete. A load of nonsense if you ask me! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 23:00, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree. I would class this as exhibition cricket that cannot be considered notable. The sources used are dubious, especially Instagram, and that issue will have to be resolved if we are to keep the article. If the series becomes successful in future years and can attract current internationals, it would then be notable, but in my opinion the upcoming edition is not. Batagur baska (talk) 03:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The launch event of the league was attended by international cricket superstars including Chris Gayle (West Indies), Fawad Alam (Pakistan), Samit Patel (England), Ravi Bopara (England), Navneet Dhaliwal (Canada), and others.
 * Read more at: https:/https://www.morningstar.com/news/pr-newswire/20231013ph37556/american-premier-league-alongside-universe-boss-chris-gayle-and-several-international-cricket-stars-announce-2023-season-launch-with-an-all-star-kickoff-in-times-square-on-wednesday-october-11 Vikas265 (talk) 07:04, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The tournament will feature players like the Universe Boss Chris Gayle, Australian Ben Cutting, former Indian cricketers S Sreesanth and Stuart Binny, Englishman Dan Lawrence, Pakistani Sohail Tanvir amongst others. Vikas265 (talk) 07:11, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And?! Doesn't negate it being a nonsense tournament. Surely there's more historical and noteworthy cricket which can be written about on here? PS: not sure Samit Patel, Ravi Bopara, or Navneet Dhaliwal (never heard of him) are cricket superstars!!! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 10:10, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And Chris Gayle is now 44, so perhaps not quite as good as he used to be. Batagur baska (talk) 10:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * AFD started here, please feel free to contribute there. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 12:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Find it amusing how the Premium Americans have no American players and are captained by an Englishman :DDDD StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 18:05, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Infobox clutter
Hi, all. It occurs to me that, for many modern players, there are far too many "domestic" teams in their infoboxes. This is because of T20 franchises. I came across this 2022 article which lists players who have appeared for several IPL franchises. Aaron Finch has played for nine and his infobox lists 16 teams in total.

Proposal 1. Restrict the domestic team information section in Template:Infobox cricketer to actual club or state association teams only, and exclude all franchise teams.

So, in Finch's case, his 16 teams would be reduced to four: Victoria, Auckland, Yorkshire, and Surrey. His twelve franchises, including one each in Australia, Sri Lanka and USA, should be removed. As for listing the franchises elsewhere in the article, I created a small table which you can see here, and also at Aaron Finch, which simply gives you the same information. Finch is an extreme case and there are many players with only one, two or three franchises. They probably wouldn't need a table like this as it is easy to mention two or three teams in the narrative. But, seeing how these franchises can accumulate, I do not think even those players should have them in the infobox.

Thank you. Batagur baska (talk) 17:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think we should only have the current franchise or last one in the infobox. We should also get rid of the medal table, which is kind of useless. Desertarun (talk) 17:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The latest franchise only would be fine, and you are right about the medal table. Thank you. Batagur baska (talk) 21:34, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 2. Restrict the domestic team information section in Template:Infobox cricketer to actual club or state association teams only, and include only the current or last franchise team. Medal tables are to be removed. Desertarun (talk) 21:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Proposal 2. Allowing only one franchise resolves my original issue, and the medal tables add no value at all. Batagur baska (talk) 21:52, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment. San Francisco Unicorns (another dull stupid name!) games don't have official T20 status, so that can be removed from the infobox. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 09:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, SW. I was in two minds about that, but I have deleted it now. And you are right about these ridiculous names. Batagur baska (talk) 09:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Not as dumb as the Oval Invincibles who lost their invincibility the moment they lost!!! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 00:06, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose: In my opinion, the infobox works really well as a way of gaining a quick overview of a player's career. Yes, there are a lot of franchise teams nowadays, but that doesn't necessarily make them a less legitimate part of a player's career. Removing IPL teams in particular would be a strange move, given its status as such a huge competition, so it seems to me quite an arbitrary distinction being made here between "actual club or state association teams" and other teams. All this proposal is doing, anyway, is moving the table to a slightly different part of the article - it's probably much easier for editors just to keep domestic teams in the infobox rather than having to update two places (and easier for readers too!). The infobox is limited to 16 teams anyway, I think, so it can't get too unwieldy. For what it's worth, I don't think San Francisco Unicorns should be included in Finch's infobox, as Major League Cricket does not count as official T20s. Agree on the medal tables, however, they're wrongly used for World Cups etc., and seem to have proliferated recently - they should be reserved just for more "recognised" medals, such as those given to cricketers at the 2022 Commonwealth Games. Mpk662 (talk) 09:16, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi,Mpk662. We could maybe create a separate franchise section in the infobox? Or just an IPL section with other leagues excluded? One point I would make is that franchise teams are not strictly domestic in governance terms and there is a heavy international element. We certainly seem to have a consensus about the MLC. Batagur baska (talk) 09:44, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I still think creating a separate franchise section would be complicating the matter too much. There's also the issue of defining what a "franchise" team is, and I am yet to find something actually defining it! For example The Hundred teams are often called franchises but are all ECB-owned, and the Women's Cricket Super League teams were franchises but often weren't acknowledged as such. Honestly, I don't particularly see the issue of a long list of domestic teams in an infobox. They're reflective of player's careers, and therefore useful for a reader to understand a player at a glance. Mpk662 (talk) 10:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose per . In modern cricket, the "franchise" teams are often more notable than the "actual club or state association teams". Harrias  (he/him) • talk 09:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, to be fair, that is true the way IPL has developed. For example, in Kolkata, franchise-owned KKR are certainly more famous than CAB-managed Bengal are now. Batagur baska (talk) 11:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with this. Whilst I don't like franchise cricket much, the IPL and other similar leagues are big events, and so should be the infobox. And for many England international players, they'll have played more games for their IPL/BBL etc teams than the county they're contracted to (some England players only play 3-4 times a year for their county). <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 11:49, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Now this is a good point. I was reading about Jonny Bairstow recently and the report said just that. Okay, I accept consensus is to keep the franchise teams in the infobox. I think it was worth discussing, but the arguments against are convincing. Thank you, everyone. Batagur baska (talk) 14:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * On your point of maintaining the list of teams in the infobox only as per MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article (an article should remain complete with its summary infobox ignored, with exceptions noted below)
 * In many / most cases the only place that a player's teams are mentioned is in the infobox. If the list is to appear in only one place, it should be in the body of the article. Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 3: Medal tables should be removed from infoboxes

 * Support as proposer. Desertarun (talk) 13:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Support with caveat suggested by that medals earned in a recognised Games tournament, like the Commonwealth or (dare I say it?) the Olympics, should be included. Batagur baska (talk) 14:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Support 3  except for tournaments that clearly give out medals like Olympics (1900)/Commonwealth Games. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 16:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. The use of medals in infoboxes has become a mess lately. Only should be added to the infobox in exceptions, like those suggested by Batagur baska and Joseph2302. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 19:42, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I would remove all of them - the medal tables used to be added below the infobox in a separate bit. That's better. But if you're allowing some medals then you will get regional awards or other such silliness added (or bronze awards when there was no 3/4 place playoff). And there are so many which have been added that you'll be playing whackamole till the end of time Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I would also like them all gone. If a team wins bronze at the Olympics they do so together, not as individuals. This is a likely means of further clutter as you've pointed out. Desertarun (talk) 20:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Support Removal of medal tables certainly. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 21:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Fwiw, looks like medal template is used on 173 articles. Including some as the manager being awarded the medal. Two of those are 1900 Olympians. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:46, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Medal tables and squad numbers are the things I dislike the most in ib cricketer Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support removal generally except for CG (and Olympic!) medals. StAnselm (talk) 16:32, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment I agree with removal generally, but do think that they should remain for any Olympic or Commonwealth Games medals. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 11:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Comments

 * If you really want to remove clutter in the infobox, you'd be better of doing one or both of:
 * radically cut the stats section which causes so many issues anyway - matches, runs and wickets would suffice imo; anything else could be dealt with in articles
 * Could you elaborate? Desertarun (talk) 20:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd cut the stas to be just matches, runs and wickets. There's an argument for reducing the number of formats to three as well - or maybe having three international followed by three domestic if people really anted to. Then, of people are really dedicated, you could have tables in articles to summarise top scores, best bowling and so on. These happen sometimes anyway - Joe Denly still has one I think. They can be problematic, but at least you'd cut the infobox down. And they're so often out of date. Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * So if we have 3 international and 3 domestic teams where would they go from a formatting point of view. I mean is there room in the infobox for 6 collumns? Desertarun (talk) 09:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's not room for six - and on a mobile device I generally have to horizontally scroll for more than 3. I would use two banks of three - one set for international and one for domestic. That doesn't create huge problems if you really reduce the number of sets of data. Either that or just go with three - and modern players we'd only show the international stuff most of the time. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:37, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I can see where you are heading with two banks of three, its a reasonable enough concept but dependent on getting the basic stat line number drastically down, otherwise we'd end up with a bigger infobox when we really could do with shrinking it. Desertarun (talk) 13:33, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * cut the number of team slots to 10 or fewer - at which point you'll be in a never ending battle with stans who will add every team someone was ever linked to. Currently only 166 articles use club11 so it's not actually that many - and no one gets to the level of Jamie Cureton, for example.
 * You could then also remove squad numbers, cap numbers and the like if you wanted to. But anything that relies on people reading an infobox documentation document is doomed to fail I'm afraid Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * From the above discussion it looks like we can't have a limit to team numbers. Although personally I'd prefer this. Desertarun (talk) 20:41, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a difference. If you restricted the number of teams then you'd force people to make intelligent choices about which ones to include in the 166 articles that had more than 10 at the start of this month. You *could* do that - we already limit the number of teams to 17 so there are already choices having to be made about which teams to include or how to manage the infobox. That's opposed to trying to get people to be sensible or read a documentation that is hard to find and not easy to follow. They won't do that, just like they won't read the MOS either most of the time. As an example, Jeevan Mendis is one of the 17 articles which currently use all 17 team slots: what would you change there? Other than marking his final match as being in 2020 for Tamil Union. You could remove every team he only played for in a single season - which probably isn't a stupid idea. That would be one solution. What about Rilee Rossouw who also uses all 17? He's bound to use some more fairly soon - so we'll need to find a way of dealing with him anyway. What would be worse: dealing with it at 17 or dealing with it at 10? If you removed single season teams there are seven for him, so it's effectively the same solution. Maybe. Blue Square Thing (talk) 21:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * For franchise players, could a timeline template be created, listing the teams/franchises they've played for over differing seasons (similar to that used for various musical acts and bands) and then removal of the teams section from infoboxes for these players. For your everyday county cricketer who's had the odd overseas stint/franchise tournament keep them in infoboxes, but for the franchise road warriors, would this be a potential solution? Rugbyfan22 (talk) 21:18, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting idea - although in lots of cases it'll be one team a year so I don't know if it would work. Andre Russell is one where there are just way too many teams to ever list them in 17 (I think, 23 at least). That would be a place to experiment if you wanted to. It won't stop people listing teams in the clubXX parameters though. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:40, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added a picture of a reduced stat section, most of the removed stats aren't useful and would be clutter I'd say, opinions? Desertarun (talk) 22:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. It's important to retain the number of centuries/fifties and five-for/ten-for stats in infoboxes, as they are important landmarks. Same with catches too, for example James Anderson has a phenomenal catching record for a bowler in Test/FC cricket. It wouldn't be right to omit those. On another note, I've always had a problem with the "Competition" heading name. Why competition? "Format" would be a much more appropriate heading. Those FC/LA/T20 etc stats don't represent a competition, but a collection of format stats. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 23:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Format (or Form) to replace Competition. I think averages should go as they are often misleading. I would retain matches, runs, wickets, ct/st, 100/50, and 5wI/10wM. There could be a case for HS and BBI, but I think they should be in the text. Catches and stumpings are key for wicket-keepers. Batagur baska (talk) 06:47, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like we could lose top score, balls bowled and best bowling, reducing the infobox by 3 lines. Is it possible to condense the 5 wickets in an innings and 10 wickets in a match onto one line? Desertarun (talk) 09:24, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Possibly - but you'd need to ask a bot operator. Tbh if it's only 3 or 4 lines being lost I probably wouldn't bother - just get the balls line deleted as that's the most obviously daft one to have (but check that hidedeliveries isn't contingent on it somehow). A case can be made for all the others to be kept. If people want to be radical and solve most of the problems associated with massively out of date infoboxes then this is the opporunity - but it means cutting radically. Seriously: matches, runs and wickets is all we actually need you know. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:43, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer a bigger cut so i'll put together two proposals, one for a big cut, one for a smaller one. Desertarun (talk) 12:55, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 4
Based upon a conversation above I think updating the infobox to have more formats but fewer stats may be the way forward. Something like seen in the picture.
 * Support as proposer. Desertarun (talk) 13:52, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * This looks good but I would include ct/st because it is essential for keepers especially. The international figures are also part of the FC, LA, T20 ones so the "Domestic" label might be confusing and should be something like "Overall" to indicate whole career. I would remove the link to wicket which is unnecessary. Batagur baska (talk) 04:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Similar point from me. Unless someone is going to work out the purely domestic figures in a way that does not breach WP:OR, then it needs to be labelled appropriately : first-class includes Tests, LA includes ODI etc... Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)


 * For similar reasons as then ones I list below, I'm not sure that this is possible to automate - the column headings are so variable and it seems unlikely to be possible now that I've thought about it Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:45, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 5
Trying this one for size, a few lines are taken off and 5 wickets innings and 10 wicket matches merged onto 1 line.
 * Support as proposer. Desertarun (talk) 19:44, 1 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I would support this except I still think we should drop the averages. As a minor point, I don't think we need any links in the side labels, but that's just a cosmetic thing. Batagur baska (talk) 04:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment. I like how the 5-for and 10-for stats are combined, but I would still keep all other stats in the infobox. They provide a handy overview for someone who might just be wondering what Bahir Shah's FC average is (infobox just updated!), or how many five wicket hauls David Warner has taken (none, as it happens!). StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 13:56, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There are 3 stats removed from proposal 5 - balls bowled, high score and best bowling. I'd say high score and best bowling are one offs rather than stats per se, and so better mentioned in prose. The balls bowled stat I just don't understand, does anyone use that? And do you want that one to stay aswell? Desertarun (talk) 15:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You may need to look and see if it's techncially easy to combine the 5wi/10wm stats. They're currently separate parameters in the infobox, so they'd need to be combined somehow. I have no idea if that's possible or easy. You'd probably want to do some jiggerypokery as well - get rid of any n/a and convert any -/- to just - (which would suggest they hadn't taken a wicket) and so on. I don't know enough about what might be possible with this sort of thing to know if any of that is possible to automate or not Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that the code writers will do more or less anything accepted in a voted on proposal. What they won't do is piecemeal changes requested by individual editors. I think the na and -/- look out of place but I'm struggling to envision the problem and possible improvements. Do you have some examples? Desertarun (talk) 06:15, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * n/a changes to an endash; -/- changes to a single endash; short dashes also change to endash whenever they occur. If that's possible. Those are very minor changes that need making hundreds of articles Blue Square Thing (talk) 09:44, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm currently mocking up the infobox and want to check were going to use endashes. They appear to be longer than a minus but shorter than an emdash. Its a little confusing. Desertarun (talk) 09:46, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the endash is best option for both length and display. A hyphen is too short and an emdash too long in a display like this. Batagur baska (talk) 10:05, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's exactly what endashes are supposed to be fwiw - they're the width of the letter n in the typeface being used (as opposed to an emdash which is the width of a letter m - hence wider). We should probably be using them rather than a minus sign wherever there is a stats parameter that can never be fulfilled. So:
 * if someone has never batted, their runs, top score and average should be an endash - and their 100/50 parameter should, imo, be a single endash - there's no need to go –/–, just – will do. For someone who has batted but never been out, an endash for average and then 0/0 (or whetever) for centuries. Jas Singh (cricketer, born 2002) as a T20 batter, for example
 * if someone's not bowled in a format, all the bowling stats are endashes; if they've bowled but not taken a wickert, then average, 10w/5w need to be endashes. Brendon McCullum, for example, does this right, as does Jas Singh (cricketer, born 2002) again
 * Does that make sense? I have no idea what's possible, but if it then this would all be jolly good to do at the same time Blue Square Thing (talk) 16:35, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Previous discussions
These discussions might be of interest:
 * 
 * 

There was talk years ago about an infobox with collapsible sections, i.e. separate international and domestic sections of the infobox. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 10:58, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The concept of using a drop down box is good, I think you're saying put the international and domestic sections into a drop down and leave the rest of the stats alone, is that right? (I think the infobox variations envisioned in 2010 would fall foul of WP:NOTDATABASE these days). Desertarun (talk) 11:43, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's right. So you'd have an international subheading and domestic subheading. It was a suggestion to solve the 4 column limitation with the infobox. I'll tag @Harrias as I think it was he who designed some draft boxes. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 17:17, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It does look like there is a path through here, that as my best guess might satisfy enough people to get a proposal accepted... It would essentially mean leaving the infobox more or less alone, except hiding the teams played for in two drop down boxes. Dropping 'balls bowled' and otherwise only making cosmetic and tidy up things. I'll try to get another proposal ready in a day or two. Desertarun (talk) 21:23, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd remain happy to collapse teams and stats in the infobox if that's a solution that works for people. I'd also be very willing to remove squad numbers (given some the daftness that occurs with those)
 * Whilst we're at it, put together a test case for doing something better with the asterisk for not out - there are a pile of discussions at Template talk:Infobox cricketer and Template talk:Infobox cricketer/Archive 1 and some implementation ideas at Template:Infobox cricketer/testcases. They're rarely around anymore, but the ideas remain valid ones to think about. Given that we might be able to bundle a bunch of stuff together here and make a range of improvements. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:24, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Happy to help mock-up / implement improvements to the IB. For a few pet hates, I'd certainly remove squad numbers, and cut down on the stats. Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:26, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the new infobox will need to be voted upon, and potential support voters will be put off an overall good proposal if a stat they like is removed. So we can only really remove the very bad, and hopefully hide little used info in a drop down box. I'd say squad numbers counts as very bad. Desertarun (talk) 13:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And there's also the nickname parameter which is probably the most abused one... Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:30, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I've seen a dozen or more nicknames in the Shane Warne article, it was kind of tiresome. What do you suggest? Desertarun (talk) 13:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Removing the parameter altogether. It's rarely used for the purpose it was intended for Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree, happy to see nicknames removed. Very rarely is a sourced nickname used, more often than not it's a random made up nickname an IP puts in there! Balls can probably go too. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 21:19, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Nicknames should definitely go. I would not have them in the prose either unless they are somehow significant and have been well sourced. I don't see the need for balls delivered and I think most people would consider those to be too much detail. Drop-downs should be achievable and might help. They are certainly good in the end-of-page templates. Batagur baska (talk) 08:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm rarely a participant these days and more an observer/reader. I'm happy to see nicknames go, as if they're long-term monikers they'll be incorporated in the main text anyway (eg Jim Swanton, Shrimp Leveson-Gower, with or without hyphen). Less happy with losing the number of balls bowled and highest scores and best bowling returns, and certainly not happy with losing the batting and bowling averages, which someone suggested, as I think that's a handy guide as to the quality of the cricketer in Test and FC matches, if less so in LA and T20. Surely the problem with all of this arises only with cricketers who are still playing: infoboxes for past and retired cricketers could be retained pretty much as is, as they won't change. And surely the way to treat franchises (as distinct from long-term teams) is to ignore them: we've never bothered, for instance, with adding "Col. L. C. Stevens' XI" or "The Rest" to team lists for players who appeared in end-of-season festival cricket, unless there was a specific reason for doing so. A long time ago, we had a template for something called "Infobox Historic Cricketer" or some such, as distinct from current players who would need updating every so often. Maybe time to revive that thought? Johnlp (talk) 17:22, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Given that articles such as 2023 Abu Dhabi T10, with it's, err, three lines of prose, now seem perfectly OK to have, I doubt we'll manage to ignore franchises - the stans will just keep on adding them, along with medal boxes and so on. There's too many moles to whack Blue Square Thing (talk) 17:46, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

List of possible changes
It looks like we're doing a spring clean of the infobox, so i've summarised the conversation above into bullet points. The only point not discussed is moving National team to the personal information section to replace nickname. If the international information is to be hidden in a drop down box the players national team should almost certainly not be hidden. I note has offered to help mock this up, and that would be most helpful, a collaboration may be the way forward.
 * Personal information section has nickname removed
 * International information loses squad numbers
 * Domestic team information loses squad numbers
 * Career statistics section loses balls bowled
 * Career statistics has 5 wicket innings and 10 wicket matches merged onto one line
 * -/- changes to a single endash; short dashes change to endash
 * Medal table section to be removed or limited to certain games


 * Thoughts? Desertarun (talk) 10:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm against hiding of content, as per MOS:DONTHIDE. National team is already in "International information" so don't need to duplicate it in the "Personal information" section. Apart from that, am happy with the rest of the changes proposed here. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 10:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be duplicated, it would only be moved if we go ahead with a drop down box for international information. Desertarun (talk) 11:56, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree with Joseph, re hiding and national team. Hiding so much information for me defeats the point of an infobox, which is meant to provide key information at a quick glance. Personally I'd keep the stats section the same too, especially as the consensus now seems to be to only get rid of one or two lines, but not too bothered either way. As I've said before, I support limiting medal tables to Commonwealth and Olympic Games (and possibly other multi-sport events like the Asian Games? Haven't seen them mentioned), and I'm fine with that being hidden. Thanks Desertarun for trawling through the long discussion and summarising! Mpk662 (talk) 11:04, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The original concern from proposal 1 was to remove the big list of franchises that players have been to, it can be enormous and is not very useful in my opinion. Do we really want a list of 17 franchises in the infobox? A drop down box allows the information to be hidden but quickly available if anybody wants it. What other games from Asia should we allow in the medal table? (if its kept). Desertarun (talk) 11:56, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My argument for keeping domestic teams visible is pretty much the same I (and others) set out in the original discussion. I do find it useful for an overview of a player's career, and think the unwieldy nature of it is overstated - it basically comes down to personal preference, which I doubt will change for either of us! I was referring to the Asian Games, as well as the South Asian Games, which are the multi-sport events off the top of my head that include cricket, and can be seen as at least equivalent to the Commonwealth Games. Mpk662 (talk) 12:48, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If they've legitimately played for 17 teams, then it's perfectly reasonable for them all to be the infobox. Or we could implement a cricket wide change for the teams e.g. they have to play for a team for at least 2 years so be added there (the current standard is they have to appeared at least once ever for a team). Hiding it (which doesn't actually work on some mobile devices anyway) doesn't provide any benefit, and can cause accessibility issues on e.g. screen readers. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 13:35, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Accessibility is as good a reason as any for not hiding things Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:08, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like we need a vote to gauge support for hiding sections, so I've put that below. Desertarun (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Can we also lose squad numbers for domestic stuff please - they're only patchily used anyway - only 758 of the nearly 19,000 infoboxes with club1 in them use the squad number - as soon as you get to club6 it's in double figures. I'm happy enough with whatever from that list that people agree on and would be interested in seeing whatever mockups are possible Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:08, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added squad numbers from the domestic info section to the list, that was an oversight on my part. Desertarun (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 7
From the information box the following 3 sections - International information, Domestic team information and Medal record should be hidden by default in a drop down box. Desertarun (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as proposer. Desertarun (talk) 19:33, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per MOS:DONTHIDE. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 19:36, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose MOS:DONTHIDE is clear about this, don't do it. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 19:37, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Neutral I see pros and cons, but I think I'd want to see some working test versions before I could be certain. The concerns about accessibility above suggest this might not be a great idea in the infobox - I've used accessibility as a good reason for making different decisions in the past and it's one of the best reasons we have imo for deciding on things like layout Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:38, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, having read DONTHIDE. Accessibility is important. Batagur baska (talk) 21:31, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn, looks like a non runner. Desertarun (talk) 22:31, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 8
I think we're ready to vote on the remaining items in the possible list of changes for the cricket infobox.

This proposal says for the cricket infobox:-
 * Personal information section has nickname removed
 * International information has squad numbers removed
 * Domestic team information has squad numbers removed
 * Career statistics section has balls bowled removed
 * Career statistics has 5 wicket innings and 10 wicket matches merged onto one line
 * Career statistics has -/- changing to a single endash; short dashes change to endash

Changes to the medal table have been voted on above. I will endeavour to get proposal 3 (on medal tables) and proposal 8 (this one) formally closed by an uninvolved party to read consensus and come to a decision. Desertarun (talk) 11:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Support as proposer. Desertarun (talk) 11:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Procedural oppose, this is six different items, let's split them up and decide individually. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 11:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That's not a bad idea - it makes things easier to caveat and to get individual items through. I'll put a note on the infobox talk page alerting anyone who watches that to this discussion as well Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

It might also be worth thinking about implementing Template talk:Infobox cricketer/Archive 1 as well if there are changes being made. At the same time it might be worth finding out if the Template talk:Infobox cricketer can't be fixed. It does make editing problematic if someone's used the visual editor. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:45, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I'd like to propose another removal which is all of the height parameters. From what I can see, these are rarely sourced and people could be entering guesses only. I don't think height is an important item in cricket. Thanks. Batagur baska (talk) 17:04, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

And I think we should remove family parameters too because this is wide open to abuse and breach of privacy. We have people seeking out children's names, for example, and I think it is very wrong to allow that sort of information. Batagur baska (talk) 17:12, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The family parameter should only include notable people, ie those with their own Wikipedia articles. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 17:17, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, but then I think that should be mentioned in the prose only because the parameter is being misused. It is a pity this software cannot reject any use of a parameter unless the variable links directly to an article. Batagur baska (talk) 05:33, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure we can't remove parameters that are in personal information section, as they're inherited from Infobox person. Family and height parameters would need to have wider agreement to be removed, and a few people misusing the family section doesn't mean we should just remove it, as it's useful information to navigate between articles. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 08:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose we're straying away from the original aim of cleaning up cricket information in infoboxes to now trying to remove parameters that exist on every template for every biographical article. And 8 proposals of 8 very similar things is just getting unwieldy, notwithstanding the fact that this probably needs a formal WP:RFC to do any major changes anyway. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 08:47, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Proposal 9
I agree it is a good idea to handle the infobox problems individually. Given the importance of WP:BLP, I think the issue of nickname misuse must be the top priority. So, I propose:


 * Remove the nickname parameter from the personal information section of Infobox cricketer. If this cannot be done because of dependency on Infobox person, or for other technical reasons, establish a project rule that the parameter must not be used in Infobox cricketer, even if the nickname has an established usage (in that case, it should be mentioned in the main body of the article and verified by a reliable source).

A case in point is this example. Thank you. Batagur baska (talk) 08:20, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. Often used for vandalism or they're well meaning additions without a reference and WP:OR. Desertarun (talk) 16:59, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Support removing nickname parameter, which is not really very much necessary. Removal of it can prevent from adding nicknames through WP:OR by new editors.Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  04:23, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Full list of players sold and unsold in the 2024 IPL Auction
Mitchell Starc, the Australian speedster, shattered records in a historic "IPL auction 2024" on Tuesday, when he was signed by the Kolkata Knight Riders (KKR) for an amazing Rs 24.75 crore.Starc outbid fellow Australian Pat Cummins, who briefly held the new record until being stolen by Sunrisers Hyderabad (SRH) for a substantial sum of Rs 20.50 crore. Markwilliam8860 (talk) 06:44, 21 December 2023 (UTC)


 * This is covered at List of 2024 Indian Premier League personnel changes, and could also be mentioned at 2024 Indian Premier League. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 09:26, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Thoughts?
Well, is it a notable topic, I am in doubt. Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  07:32, 21 December 2023 (UTC)


 * More notable by WP:GNG criteria than many of the player pages we have. There are multiple RS articles used as references that are specifically about him. Spike &#39;em (talk) 07:59, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I read the WP page thinking oh no he is not notable. But the refs are solid, so he is notable. Desertarun (talk) 20:54, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Domestic cricket competitions by year
Why do we only create categories for the southern hemisphere summer seasons like and not generally for the northern hemisphere summer season e.g. ? I notice one does exist for 2023, and the 2021 one is currently at a CFD Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 21, so was wondering if there was a deliberate reason why these aren't created? In the 2021 season for example, there'd be all the English domestic tournaments, plus some Irish ones and probably a few others, which looks like it more than justifies a category in my opinion. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 11:37, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think the series was originally an Aussie-only concept because I added several Ranji Trophy articles a few weeks ago and before that there was nothing in them except Sheffield Shield. We should have calendar years, I agree, but the 2021 one has only a Hong Kong tournament which is at AFD, so we should add more to that category and do the same for 2022. I will withdraw the CFD and expand 2021. Thank you. Batagur baska (talk) 12:52, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that there is no particular reason for this, and you should feel comfortable creating it. However given the ambiguous name steps should ideally be taken to make sure that people don't erroneously add tournaments from the southern hemisphere summer to that category. Sellyme <sup style="color:#009933;">Talk  17:22, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Articles needing attention
Hi. There are some articles on domestic cricket in New Zealand, which need attention and significant improvements: I worked a bit on the super smash, but the other two also needs to be updated. These articles nowadays are not being actually cared about. I would request the volunteers to look about this matter and edit the pages if you wish. Thanks. Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  17:04, 28 December 2023 (UTC)
 * 2023–24 Super Smash (men's cricket)
 * 2023–24 Plunket Shield season
 * 2023–24 Ford Trophy
 * Hi User:RoboCric, just wanted to let you know that I've gone through and added the full fixture details for all upcoming matches for both the Plunket Shield and Ford Trophy. The former was fairly simple and only took a few minutes, but there were some serious errors which matches being linked to incorrect scorecards with the Ford Trophy so I just went and re-built pretty much every single match report there (with the added benefit of including points totals, time of day, and umpire info where they were missing while I was at it). I've tried to clean up after myself but it's probably worth looking at that one just to make sure I didn't break anything. I'll also note that I have not added fixtures in the Ford Trophy for the finals matches, since they should probably be out in their own section rather than clumped in with the regular season.
 * Feel free to WP:PING me for any other such cricket season articles where a user is available to build up prose, tables, and descriptions of any finals/divisions, but that need a lot of match reports or fixtures added to them - I have a lot of tools I've built to make adding them a lot easier, so I'm more than happy to do all of the grunt work so that other people can focus on making the articles a bit better than the barebones results list. Sellyme <sup style="color:#009933;">Talk  18:34, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Haldane Stewart
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Haldane Stewart that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 08:09, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Naseem Shah (cricketer)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Naseem Shah (cricketer) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 09:04, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

GA review
Hi all. I have nominated John Holder (umpire) for GA status. If anyone could spare some time to review the article, that would be much appreciated :) Cheers, StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 23:57, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I read through the article and a couple of things stood out, the first is that he is quoted in reliable sources saying that English cricket is racist. I know the topic isn't ignored but given that he is the only black umpire in the history of English cricket, and the ICEC report, this matter doesn't look to have been given proper weight. Or perhaps its just a matter of organisation. The other thing that stood out is that his coaching career isn't discussed in much detail, it could be that he didn't have much of a career, but often the value of cricket coaching is overlooked, so it might be worth a second look to see if that could be beefed up. Desertarun (talk) 20:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look. I couldn't find anything where he directly calls the ECB racist. Included is when Holder and Ismail Dawood tried to sue to ECB, but later withdrew their claim. A couple of papers have construed this case as proof of racism, but that doesn't appear to have been how Holder worded it. Another is the Daily Mirror, but we tend to ignore that! Can you find any RS? With coaching, I don't think his coaching ever went much beyond club level. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 20:58, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * For my previous reply I didn't look past The Telegraph headline that says "Former Test umpire John Holder sues ECB for alleged racial discrimination". Reading the article just now it looks like there is a quote from him saying he was "discriminated against on the grounds of race". It could be that he's saying he was discriminated against, rather than him saying the ECB is racist I guess. Desertarun (talk) 21:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * OK, i dug up another ref from the telegraph that says Holder was suing the ECB for institutionalised racism, its here . Desertarun (talk) 22:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I was thinking about reviewing this, but on reflection I'm going to pass. Nice article anyway, keep up the good work. Desertarun (talk) 16:56, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * No worries! Thanks for finding that link, I will incorporate it into the article (along with some others I need to add) in the next few days. I've just passed 40% Hampshire cricketers completeness, so fingers crossed a GA will be amongst them! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 18:54, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on 2024 One World One Family Cup
Please review or update the page

The charity match will be played at the Sai Krishnan Cricket Stadium in Muddenahalli near Bengaluru. On January 18, 2024, two sides, led by Sachin Tendulkar and Yuvraj Singh, will play a charity T20 match for the One World One Family Cup.

Between them, the two teams – One World (led by Sachin Tendulkar) and One Family (captained by Yuvraj Singh) – have cricketers from India, Australia, New Zealand, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, England, and South Africa.

Organised by the Shri Madhusudan Sai Global Humanitarian Mission, the One World One Family Cup contest will raise funds for healthcare and education of the needy across more than 30 nations. Vikas265 (talk) 15:46, 17 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi Vikas265. I'm not really sure this exhibition match is notable??? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 18:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Cricketer ID
Before I redirect H.F. Russell, just wondering if anyone can have more luck than me in finding out the full name of this 1880s Hampshire cricketer. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 20:39, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Australia cricket team
Hello. Me and User:Therlinsideman have had a content dispute over the Australia national cricket team. We initially had a dispute as they kept listing Steve Smith as the ODI captain but they have agreed on keeping Cummins in. However, now they insist on adding the vice captains in without proper justification. They also keep adding Marsh as the ODI vice captain which I couldn't find a source for. They have provided a podcast as a source but I'm not sure if it is considered reliable for Wikipedia. Apart from that, I couldn't find any announcement naming him as vice captain except this, which states that there's no ODI vc. I'm listing this here as I wanted to get some opinions on this. Thanks,  Hamza Ali Shah   Talk 15:25, 3 February 2024 (UTC)


 * WP:PUBLISHED Therlinsideman (talk) 15:31, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * that's fine, now could you please point out where in the podcast Marsh is stated to be the VC as it's quite a long podcast. Thanks,  Hamza Ali Shah   Talk 15:34, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * You have the time to keep reverting edits so find it yourself ha Therlinsideman (talk) 15:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The burden of proving that the source actually states that Marsh is the VC is fully on you. You have provided the source, you show me where it proves your point. Thanks,  Hamza Ali Shah   Talk 15:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * , . The infobox does specifically state "captain", therefore there is no need to mention who the vice-captain of the team is. So I've removed it. StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 20:58, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Despite currently resting, Cummins remains permanent captain in all three formats and our article's infobox should reflect that. I've removed Marsh and I agree with SW that vice-captains should not be in the infobox. Batagur baska (talk) 21:57, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

Split proposal
Hi, I proposed last month that Ranjitsinhji should be split into two articles (cricketer and ruler) because of its length. Post-deadline, there has been no response but it's occurred to me that I should have raised it here, so I'm leaving it be for a while longer. The proposal is at Talk:Ranjitsinhji. Please let me know what you think. Thanks. Batagur baska (talk) 22:09, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Category:Egyptian cricketers
Just had a thought while expanding a Hampshire cricketer who played for the Egyptian team. Is this category name misleading? None of the players in it are Egyptian, they just so happened to be British officials stationed in Egypt who played for Egypt. Should it be renamed, or deleted entirely as the team never played major matches? StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 19:03, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't have any issue with the status quo. The Egypt national team played games, even though these weren't internationals. Desertarun (talk) 09:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It's more the assumption made by this being a nationality category. All the players who represented the team were British occupation officials, so none of them identified as Egyptians! AA (talk) 20:44, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I know, they shopped around their nationality in a brazen fashion, just like they do today. The England team could do with shipping in a few South African pace bowlers, we can give their batters a miss though! :)
 * I think I'd going to CfD it. The more I think about it the less it makes sense. At least England's SA 'mercenaries' actively changed their nationality by becoming UK citizens! AA (talk) 13:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

What are the bots up to?
The bots seem to be very busy changing cricket talk pages, what are they up to? Desertarun (talk) 20:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * They're applying a class rating to the banner shell only so that the same one applies to all projects. It's a good idea because you only have to type class=x once and you don't get four different ratings on one page. They'll be weeks or months changing every page, though. Doesn't involve importance ratings. Batagur baska (talk) 21:29, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That does look a good idea, it'll save time and bring some some simplification. Desertarun (talk) 21:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Wish we had bots to update infoboxes! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 09:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That would be brilliant :-) Batagur baska (talk) 22:09, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Was in the plans once upon a time I think. Considering we have in a given year several hundred cricketers to update, it would be useful! AA (talk) 13:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Kalyani Dhokarikar
I discovered this article by chance. All I can say is !!! JH (talk page) 09:51, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I particularly like the "Best Batswoman Woman Award" which links, naturally enough, to Batting (cricket). Johnlp (talk) 12:35, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I've removed a bit of the worst rubbish. But looks like most the junk was added by someone whose username suggests they're a media company i.e possibly working with her. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 13:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Where to start first? The duplinks, overlinks, peacock phrasing, unsourced personal details? Spike &#39;em (talk) 11:39, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Kate Heffernan
Hi all - User:Djln19 and I have been having some disagreements on this cricketer/netballer's article, would appreciate some other eyeballs on it rather than the two of us repeating the same arguments back at each other! See the talk page for the full explanations. I'm also posting this at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's sport due to the multi-sport nature of the article. Thanks Mpk662 (talk) 21:20, 15 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Clear case of WP:NOTLISTENING, as they don't want to follow WP CRIC wide infobox usage. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 20:51, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Arthur Carew Richards
Apparently was made an OBE, however I can't find his Gazette notification. Is this false information in the Eton and Cambridge registers? AA (talk) 20:56, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find any Gazette reference either, but an obituary in the Portsmouth Evening News of 2 December 1930 states he received the honour in June 1919.https://britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000290/19301202/181/0011 RossRSmith (talk) 14:18, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look! I think I found it here by searching his middle name. Probably doesn't appear as a full name search because of the way it is gazetted. He was made an OBE in December 1919, antedated to June 1919. AA (talk) 22:25, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Infoboxes looking ugly?
Just wondering if anyone else is now seeing the year spans on two separate lines instead of one?

It should look like:
 * 1950–1953 when employing a – or & ndash; (ignore the gap between & and n, couldn't get it not to format with nowiki!)

But instead looks like:
 * 1950– 1953

This doesn't look asthetically pleasing and takes up unecessary space, making the infobox longer.

Just me? AA (talk) 22:43, 14 February 2024 (UTC)


 * It seems to depend on the width of the stuff in the infobox - you can sometimes get away with Kent or other short names. But otherwise, try 1950–1953 . The long dashes look better than using a minus. Blue Square Thing (talk) 22:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the hack ;) All fixed! AA (talk) 22:50, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Clean up needed on Gujarat Titans
There has been quite a bit of disruptive editing on the the "Gujarat Titans" article, especially in regards to the captain and whether it is "Shubman Gill" or "Kane Williamson." I tried to clean up the article the best I could, and from what I can tell, it appears Shubman Gill is the catpain. However, I know absolutely nothing about this sport, so I thought I would post here so someone who is more knowledgeable can clean it up and ensure accuracy. It could also benefit from temporary page protection after the clean-up as well. Thanks! Wikipedialuva (talk) 13:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on 2024 Legends Cricket Trophy
Please update and review the page.

The 2024 Legends Cricket Trophy will be the second edition of the Legends Cricket Trophy (LCT), a Twenty20 cricket tournament featuring retired cricketers, many of them former internationals.

The tournament will take place from 8 March to 18 March, 2024 at Pallekelle Stadium, Kandy, Sri Lanka. The tournament will bring together cricketing legends from around the world for the first time to Sri Lanka. The tournament will be played in a 90-ball format.

Squads for the tournament were selected through a draft which took place on 15 February 2024

Yuvraj Singh, TM Dilshan, Aaron Finch, Chris Gayle, Harbhajan Singh, Robin Uthappa and Suresh Raina are named as the icon players for the tournament. Vikas265 (talk) 05:13, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * But why is this tournament notable? Just because they're ex-professionals doesn't mean the event is inherently notable. Our cricket coverage shouldn't be an indiscriminate collection of information. AA (talk) 09:14, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:NOTINHERITED, doesn't look notable as a tournament even if it has notable players. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 14:58, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * AfD here. AA (talk) 17:21, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Regarding colour violation template
Hi Everyone! I just want to know that what is template for mos color violation that we need to add in any article section to rectify the color that has been added there. Fade258 (talk) 16:38, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I'm not aware of any. AA (talk) 19:10, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Medals in infoboxes, again
It looks like Proposal 3 in this discussion got consensus, but I am involved and can't close it. I'm not particularly bothered if it isn't implemented, but it seems wrong to archive it and leave it hanging. StAnselm (talk) 19:30, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on 2024 Indian Veterans Premier League
The 2024 Indian Veterans Premier League (also known as IVPL 2024). is the inaugural edition of the Indian Veterans Premier League, a Twenty20 cricket tournament featuring retired cricketers, many of them former internationals. The tournament is taking place in India from 23 February to 3 March 2024. The entire competition is being played at the Shaheed Vijay Singh Pathik Sports Complex in Greater Noida in Uttar Pradesh. The tournament is organised by the Board for Veteran Cricket in India (BVCI).

Six teams are taking part in the competition.
 * Chhattisgarh Warriors
 * Mumbai Champions
 * Rajasthan Legends
 * Red Carpet Delhi
 * Telangana Tigers
 * VVIP Uttar Pradesh

Vikas265 (talk) 07:27, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I think this is a quite a copy paste from its respective article. Please be clear what you asking about. Best regards! Fade258 (talk) 13:07, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I want the page to be reviewed Vikas265 (talk) 14:53, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * We are providing a review on here, but aren't being met with many answers! Why are these notable? They seem to non-notable events, with very routine sources which do not establish notability. AA (talk) 15:39, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on Indian Street Premier League
The Indian Street Premier League (ISPL) is a T10 cricket league which will have its first season take place from 6-15 March 2024. It is meant to help uncover emerging cricketing talent, with matches to be played using tennis balls. Vikas265 (talk) 08:46, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi, Please be clear what you are asking about? Best regards. Fade258 (talk) 13:08, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I want the page to be reviewed Vikas265 (talk) 13:59, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * This is the least notable of the lot. We are not an indiscriminate collection of anything and everything about cricket. I honestly think you are wasting your time making these. AA (talk) 15:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Jos Buttler GA
I've left some comments about whether Jos Buttler article is still GA-worthy or not (in my opinion, it's not) at Talk:Jos Buttler. Probably the best people to work on it would be from this project, so giving you all a heads up. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 18:26, 27 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Agree. It's a long way off what would qualify as being GA-worthy. Think back in the day this was @Harrias' baby, so dropping him a ping. AA (talk) 22:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not at GA level at the moment, and I don't really have the interest in working on an active England player to get it back there. Once he's retired, I'd probably take a look again, but active international players are too much stress. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 22:31, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * My sentiments exactly. Any active players are just too much aggravation to maintain to that level. AA (talk) 23:01, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Tom Atkinson - sources?
Tom Atkinson is an unsourced cricket article I've found while looking at Cumbria articles for WP:FEB24, the unsourced articles backlog drive.

The content is:


 * Tom Atkinson (27 September 1930 – 2 September 1990) was an English first-class cricketer who was born in Millom, Cumbria, and died in Glasgow. He played for Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club from 1957 to 1960 as an opening bowler and middle/lower order batsman. He was a right-handed batsman and right-arm fast medium bowler.

Can anyone here please find a source to add? Thanks in advance! Pam D  14:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I've added a basic statistic source. It wouldn't be sufficient to save the article from an AfD, but it proves his existence at least. Harrias  (he/him) • talk 14:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, it's enough to clear him out of my WP:Petscan listings! I've added Refimprove, because as you say he needs more sources ideally. Pam  D  15:41, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * There's something here about him... though I can't read it as I gave up getting access! AA (talk) 16:25, 19 February 2024 (UTC)


 * For almost every man who's played for Notts, this is a good source of information - and will certainly indicate if there's virtually nothing known about a player. The chances are that it's based on Peter Wynne-Thomas' books in many cases - if it wasn't written directly by him. I'll add a little more in now from there are CricketArchive. Blue Square Thing (talk) 12:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)


 * If there aren't enough good sources to pass WP:GNG, then a redirect to List of Nottinghamshire County Cricket Club players would be the most sensible outcome (and this is the general outcome for cricketers not notable enough for their own article). <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 12:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)


 * There's a Wisden obituary, annoyingly in the "wrong" year's book. I've worked it up - I think there's plenty and there's lots to suggest that there would be a lot more in other sources. Blue Square Thing (talk) 13:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Dharmaraja–Kingswood Cricket Encounter
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Dharmaraja–Kingswood Cricket Encounter that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 15:18, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Thoughts on these
Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are toward the following linked articles found in the "List of Big Matches" section of the Big Match. To me, they seem to be a collection of match reports and stats which violate WP:NOTSTATS. They don't seem notable enough, anyone else agree? AA (talk) 23:22, 4 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Agreed, seems to be a violation of WP:NOTSTATS and don't look to be notable. Feels a bit needless as well.  Hamza Ali Shah   Talk 23:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Create a page on Asian Legends League T20
Introduction:

The Inaugural edition tournament will see teams comprising of legendary stars from five biggest Asian cricketing nations Pakistan, India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and Afghanistan, compete in a thrilling tournament, taking place from March 13 to March 21, 2024.

The tournament is scheduled to be held from March 13 to March 21, 2024. The league is organized by World Sports Group Private Limited and will feature five teams: Afghanistan Pathans, Indian Royals, Pakistan Stars, Bangladesh Tigers, Srilankan Lions

The Asian Legends League T20 (ALL T20) is a cricket league that aims to bring together legendary cricketers from Asia and provide an opportunity for fans to witness their favourite players in action once again. The league will be hosted in Dambulla Cricket Stadium (Sri Lanka).

Objective:

The objective of ALL T20 is to provide a platform for retired Asian cricketers to showcase their skills once again, while also giving fans and opportunity to relive the nostalgia of watching these legends play. The league will aim to promote the sport of cricket in the Asian region and provide a competitive platform for players to showcase their abilities.

Official Website: https://www.allt20.asia/index.php

Format of the Tournament :

The ALL T20 will feature four teams, each consisting of legendary players from Asia. The teams will play against each other in a round-robin format, followed by the Playoffs with the final.

The 5 teams will battle out each other in 10 league matches where every team will play once with every other team. The Rank 4 and Rank 5 team will play for Eliminator 1, Rank 3 and winner of Eliminator 1 will play for Eliminator 2. Rank 1 and Rank 2 will play for Qualifier 1 and Qualifier 2 will play in between winner of Eliminator 2 and Looser of Qualifier 1 and their respective winners will qualify for the final.

Vikas265 (talk) 13:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Rather not, thanks. AA (talk) 16:35, 10 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Doesn't seem like it will pass WP:GNG. You could always create a draft and use WP:AFC to see if people will accept it as notable. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 23:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

ICC Media Release citations
The ICC website has recently (in the last year) switched its url format from https:/www.icc-cricket.com/media-releases/######## to https:/www.icc-cricket.com/media-releases/name-of-article.

This seems to have killed plenty of citation links.

CarnivalSorts (talk) 16:56, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

FL removal discussion
I have nominated List of Indian Premier League seasons and results for featured list removal. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 13:48, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Men's cricket
(I don't know if this has been brought up before too; I'm sorry if it has and I'm just repeating)

I think it is about time we start using the term "men's" in certain article titles and prose text similar to how "women's" is used currently. I propose this to cover mainly series/tournament articles (e.g. Australia men's cricket team in England in YEAR) and stats articles (e.g. List of men's Twenty20 International records). There has been a trend recently to use more gender-neutral terminology in certain parts of cricket-related articles (like maiden century/five-for stat mentions in match summaries, usage of terms like "ODI" over "WODI" in series articles et cetera), and a progression from that to a slight addition in the main article titles/headings might be a welcome change. ICC and a number of leading cricket boards already mention either gender when applicable in their articles and other releases; articles about sports like field hockey and basketball in English Wikipedia have also been doing something similar for some time, and I feel like cricket can start going in that direction too. I'll be glad to know what others think about this. Thank you.

Pinging @Bs1jac, @Cric editor, @Godknowme1  মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi  ( ETP ) 18:55, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * I certainly think things like List of Twenty20 International records, and the lists of umpires and grounds in each format should have "men's" in the title. Also team pages (e.g. Australia national cricket team) should have "men's" in the title.
 * I am not so sure about tournaments or series. Probably should treat men's and women's the same way though. Bs1jac (talk) 19:35, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I too agree about the "men's" to be appended to the national teams' titles. And about tournaments I guess we can make changes based on what ICC calls them, since the 2023 edition the Cricket World Cup too has gender specification in its title. Cric editor (talk) 02:54, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Generally, the men's team are the primary topic, which is why we have e.g. England cricket team not England men's cricket team. And this is also the case with most men's cricket series- they continue to get way more coverage in general than women's series. Adding men's violates WP:CONCISE and looks to be an attempt to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 09:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Generally but it cannot be assumed to be true by default. The Thai women's team gets a lot more coverage than their men's one, but we still have Thailand national cricket team and Thailand women's national cricket team.
 * Certainly agree that national team's titles should be separated, tournament names should follow ICC naming for each event. CarnivalSorts (talk) 15:40, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Frederick Capron
Hi, wondering if anyone has more sources on Frederick Capron - the notability claim is that he played 2 first class games for the MCC but in a period before "first class" as a term was officially used. Thanks. JMWt (talk) 11:09, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Scottish Super 10
Hi. A new T10 league has been launched by Cricket Scotland. Here's some coverage about the tournament, with the inaugural season in August 2024. Since it is not a league with T20 status, I'm just asking the WP:CRIC members whether the sources contribute towards WP:GNG or not. Can it be created as an article? I've created it as a redirect page for now and will decide if content can be added based on the opinions of cricket editors. Thanks. Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  15:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)


 * This project shouldn't be an indiscriminate collection of hit-and-giggle competitions from all over the world. Keep it encyclopedic and based on the ICC definition of official cricket, otherwise we just devalue our overall content. AA (talk) 16:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
 * WP:TOOSOON to tell whether WP:GNG will be met. There have been countless planned events like this that have never actually happened (e.g. Euro T20 Slam that was supposed to start over 4 years ago). As such, I'd say wait until at least August. wjematherplease leave a message... 20:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

FLC
I have nominated Ireland women's cricket team record by opponent for featured list. I think, it is one of the topics of interest of Cricket Project. Please join the discussion on whether this article should be promoted or not. Thanks. Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  16:06, 30 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Please see my comments :) AA (talk) 11:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your participation AA Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  11:57, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

AFD
Hi. Even after 2 relists, this AFD is lacking participation. While I am confident that it deserves to be deleted, but it can't be closed as soft deletion is ineligible now. So, I invite the editors of this project to join the discussion. Thanks. Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  14:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You're WP:canvassing for delete votes. In future you should ask for participation but leave out the bit about you being confident its a delete. Desertarun (talk) 15:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to canvass, it is a proper notice. I'm sorry but I had no intention for canvassing. Just, I wanted to explain that soft deletion was not eligible even though there have been one participant in the AFD. So, I wanted to seek attention of editors to participate in the discussion. I'm happy to remove that part and rely on the neutrality. Thanks. Robo<sup style="color:#707">Cric Let's chat  15:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Most of us have inadvertently canvassed at some point. In such a low participation discussion like this nobody will much care, but in a more animated debate people will get annoyed for sure. Desertarun (talk) 15:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Jos Buttler
Jos Buttler has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 14:39, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Denonyms vs nations
Similar to the Mashfi23's query about adding "men's" to certain article titles, I have another thing that I would like to be considered. Why do we use denonyms for men's bilateral tours, but the nation for women's tours. e.g., England women's cricket team in India in 2023–24 and English cricket team in India in 2023–24. As well as the potential to add "men's" to the title, I feel we should be consistent and start saying "England (men's?) cricket team in VENUE in YEAR".

It is of course refering to THE England/Australia/India etc (men's) national team rather than AN English/Australian/Indian team. Plus we don't use the denonym for certain teams as it is (e.g., New Zealand) Bs1jac (talk) 19:52, 25 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The usage of demonyms is arguable, we use these demonyms only in the case of men's tours and we use the other way you mentioned for women's tours. I think there should be uniformity among these type of articles, it should be either demonyms across both or neither. Cric editor (talk) 02:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Since we use only the nation name when used with the gender term (women's), we can very well look to use the term for men too and stop using demonyms in those titles to go along with Bs1jac's preference.  মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi  ( ETP ) 07:03, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * We should be consistent with country or denonyms (although New Zealand is mostly used as a denonym on Wiki anyway), my personal preference would be the country so England cricket team in India in 2023–24. I'm sure I raised this issue years ago, and we didn't do anything about it. But we should treat this issue separately to the men's or no men's in names above, otherwise we'll end up conflating the 2, and probably nothing will get consensus. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 09:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree with all that. Separate issues. So to clarify, I too feel that England cricket team in India in 2023–24 would be my preferred title for such articles. Bs1jac (talk) 23:52, 27 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Mashfi23, User talk:Joseph2302. Bringing this up again as it seems that Citation bot has done the opposite and changed a few women's tours to use the denonym. Can't see any discussion on this and I thought we were leaning towards changing mean's tours to use the nation, rather that women's tours to use the denonym. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bs1jac (talk • contribs) 21:49, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Did someone direct the bot to do it? I see that you've changed some of the titles back, thanks for that– we better decide something soon though  মাশ্‌ফী※Mashfi  ( ETP ) 08:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Teddy Wynyard
I have substantially expanded this article and wouldn't mind getting it to FA, particularly as he is a Test cricketer. If anyone would be kind enough to review it and make suggestions, it would be much appreciated. Or, if anyone has any further sources I have overlooked which might add to it, that would also be appreciated :) AA (talk) 12:18, 6 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I've only had time to take my most cursory look at it. It looks good, but I did find one typo to fix. JH (talk page) 17:15, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Cheers! Thanks for fixing the typo!!! I'd like to find out a bit more about his dispute with Ranji ideally, only have so far that it stemmed from a bunch of grapes! AA (talk) 08:30, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
 * This is interesting as your source, Simon Sweetman, says: "Wynyard was featured in a caricature in Vanity Fair in 1898, with the caption to his caricature alluding to his reputed short and sometimes violent temper, whilst also mentioning his dispute with Ranjitsinhji, which had begun when Ranjitsinhji helped himself to some of Wynyard's grapes". In Simon Wilde's Ranji (1999), page 86, he writes: "It is revealing that that a profile of him (Ranji) in Vanity Fair in August 1897 referred to him having a 'violent temper' and to a well-publicised argument he had had recently with Teddy Wynyard, the Hampshire captain, after helping himself to some of Wynyard's grapes".
 * I would be inclined to accept the Wilde version here, especially as he is exact about the month of the issue. Wilde's context is the financial pressure on Ranji in 1897 when he was close to bankruptcy, and he goes on to say how Ranji was noted for his impatience — he had a reputation "for not suffering fools gladly".
 * Wilde mentions Wynyard again on page 249 in a list of Ranji's highest partnerships. Ranji and Wynyard opened the innings for MCC v CUCC at Lord's in 1904, and put on 237 in 140 minutes. Batagur baska (talk) 10:24, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, I have found a piece in Harry Altham's history which may be useful. Writing about Hampshire teams during 1900–1914, Altham on page 268 says: "In R. M. Poore and E. G. Wynyard, when service duties allowed them to play, (Hampshire) had two batsmen of unmistakable stature; Wynyard, a versatile athlete who had played in the Old Carthusian side that won the FA Cup in 1886, was a resolute and adventurous stroke-player good enough to be chosen for England in the Oval Test of 1896". I'll see if I can spot more references when I have time, but I'm afraid my books are somewhat scattered right now! Batagur baska (talk) 10:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Infobox help
Wondering if anyone might know how to get both the rugby union and cricket infoboxes to be embedded in the infobox for George Hamilton D'Oyly Lyon. I have all the info already in there, just no clue why it won't embed them :( AA (talk) 23:04, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, AA. I saw this and I have tried to help. The difficulty is the military infobox only allowing a single use of the module parameter (module1, module2, etc. are invalid). I have nested rugby inside cricket and cricket inside military. There is one remaining anomaly in that "cricket information" isn't highlighted, so it looks as if some enhancements are needed in the military to improve its handling of modules. Could you please check that the information in the whole panel is still okay? Thanks. Batagur baska (talk) 09:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Cheers, it's a very annoying infobox the MILHIST one, for such an efficient and excellent Wikiproject! It all looks okay to me :) AA (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Deleted players, including ODI and WODI players.
Can see @Batagur baska the last week has removed dozens of player pages (at lest from May 3 - 6), redirecting to lists. Is there a discussion of these removals? I did look at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cricket/archive, but can't see them name there. Examples Pernille Jønsson, Malene Iversen, Zain Abbas (Hong Kong cricketer), Jordan Martel Moedk (talk) 11:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, . The articles have been redirected to appropriate lists such as List of Denmark women ODI cricketers because they seem to be permanent stubs without scope for expansion. In addition, although I personally do not like WP:GNG, they all fail that too, and it would only be a matter of time before they are taken to WP:AFD and probably deleted. The better option is WP:ATD-R because, although the article has been redirected to a list, its history remains intact and, should anyone find sufficient reliable sources about the subject, it can be expanded and reinstated. So, if you read ATD-R, it explains the process. If there any redirects you believe you can expand, please go ahead.
 * It is interesting that the first example you have chosen is Pernille Jønsson because that was a very short stub indeed — it had a readable prose size of 166 bytes (25 words).
 * I should add that I'm working on Category:Cricket stubs and its subcats to identify non-stubs, which I'm promoting to start, and also permanent short stubs like Pernille Jønsson which can be stored via ATD-R. Happy to discuss further. Thanks. Batagur baska (talk) 13:54, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Surely these should have been discussed? Difficult for one editor to tell if these articles are "permanent stubs without scope for expansion", and even if they are sent to AfD and accepted, they can then be redirected anyway. Mpk662 (talk) 18:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * , the wording of WP:ATD-R is: "A page can be blanked and redirected if there is a suitable page to redirect to, and if the resulting redirect is not inappropriate. If the change is disputed via a reversion, an attempt should be made to reach a consensus before blank-and-redirecting again. Suitable venues for doing so include the article's talk page and Articles for deletion.
 * There is no need for any editor using ATD-R to discuss the matter beforehand. WP:BOLD applies and any competent editor should be able to judge an article's potential. You have misquoted me by omitting the words "seem to be". Please do not try to twist my meaning. I made it clear in my response to Moedk that they should restore any redirects they can expand, as per ATD-R. Okay? Batagur baska (talk) 20:35, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There have been endless discussions on the subject of sports biography stubs, including a massive RFC that resulted in changes to WP:NSPORT. Ultimately such articles need to meet WP:GNG. Stubs sourced only to databases, match reports, team announcements, etc. fail to even meet WP:SPORTCRIT so redirecting is a good WP:ATD and saves wasting everyone's time at WP:AFD. If anyone wants to revive and expand the articles to something encyclopedic, they are welcome to find some substantial sources and do so. wjematherplease leave a message... 10:14, 7 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, . You have taken the words out of my mouth. If articles like these were taken to AFD, they would face the risk of being deleted. Actually, I'm finding that non-stubs are the main problem in the Category:Cricket stubs family. Thanks again and all the best. Batagur baska (talk) 10:34, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Indian Premier League
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Indian Premier League that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vestrian24Bio ( U • T • A • C • S ) 03:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikiproject WPL notice
Hi! A separate Wikiproject for Women's Premier League (cricket) has been proposed. For it to be established a minimum number editors are needed to show their support to the Wikiproject. Interested editors please add your name here to show your support. Thanks!

See the Wikiproject draft here. You can also invite others by placing  in their talk page. Regards! Vestrian24Bio ( U • T • A • C • S ) 05:45, 15 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Does a single competition really merit its own Wikiproject? By that logic, there would be one one for the men's IPL, one for Test cricket, and dozens of others. I can't see that the resulting fragmentation would be a good thing. JH (talk page) 08:50, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There are already separate Wikiprojects for IPL, PPL, BPL and LPL. Vestrian24Bio ( U • T • A • C • S ) 09:12, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Not needed as this and all the other competition projects are just forks of this project that often just make up their own rules and violate cricket and general Wikipedia article guidelines. We should be closing down the IPL, PSL etc WikiProjects and merging them into WP:CRIC, not creating another unnecessary project. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 10:00, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If we are to do so; We'll at least need separate taskforces for them. Vestrian24Bio ( U • T • A • C • S ) 13:33, 15 May 2024 (UTC)


 * There's no need for these competition WikiProject's in my opinion. They are often only small in size which isn't good for participation and deciding things within the project and often over time die away. All can be done from this WikiProject anyway
 * Comment. Agree with Joseph2302. These should be bought under the control of this project and made into taskforces. AA (talk) 22:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment. The new wikiproject will likely be inactive within a matter of weeks, and then just sit there doing nothing in perpetuity. Desertarun (talk) 12:21, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree, and this is the state of the PSL, LPL, BPL projects too- either completely inactive or active for a few weeks a year only. I'm sure I suggested a few years ago making them all taskforces of this project, but we didn't get much engagement on the subject. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 12:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * And I see that this user has ignored us and created this WPL Wikiproject anyway..... <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 15:06, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, the required limit 7 was reached yesterday when, only the first two comments by JH and Joseph were posted, Everything else were posted later; So, I didn't exactly ignore anyone. Vestrian24Bio ( U • T • A • C • S ) 15:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Dick Pilling
Dick Pilling's article got deleted, apparently because it was created by Blackjack who is banned. Can anyone here with admin access recreate it using the contents of the deleted article. Tintin 12:28, 16 May 2024 (UTC)


 * It's been recreated but could use some work. There's a bit more context at this archive link where concerns about copyvio were raised by an account that turned out to be a sock. When did the newer article get deleted? (btw, dick pilling is an interesting google search term - probably not one to do at work...) Blue Square Thing (talk) 15:01, 16 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Article was deleted on 13 May along with other articles created by Blackjack's last two socks Boca Jóvenes and Batagur baska, mainly 'List of cricket team name cricketers'. --JP (Talk) 16:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Batagur baska has made some good edits in Indian cricket articles. Had never suspected that it was him. Don't know what is being achieved by deleting his good edits. Tintin 01:50, 17 May 2024 (UTC)


 * The same has happened with the Lahore Tournament article. I have messaged the deleting admin to say that I don't think it was appropriate to delete under G5, due to the nature of the article and its value going forward. Silly they delete articles created by banned users, like it's harming the banned user *shrugs shoulders*. AA (talk) 19:23, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It is crazy to delete all those articles just like that. Tintin 01:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I did a little work on the Dick Pilling article. I suppose BlackJack is already back here somewhere. I move around different areas of WP to avoid becoming too familiar with the "characters". He failed two of my attempts to get Shane Warne to GA status. Assuming good faith I just thought the article wasn't quite ready. Oh well. Desertarun (talk) 19:42, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Warne is on my to-do list as part of my Hampshire expansion project. He requires some work, so is toward the tailend of my list while I knock off the 'lesser' known players. AA (talk) 22:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
 * He died 2 years ago now ..seems like only yesterday! I've lost interest in taking it to GA but would possibly review it. BJ would no doubt be interested in failing it again. Desertarun (talk) 03:35, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, a big loss. Hampshire members hoped he would one day coach the club. Keep on working on it, and have a look at similar cricket GA structures. There's plenty of Somerset cricketers who are GA, where you can get some ideas. Happy to muck in and go for a joint-GA. Also, given he is now sadly deceased, articles tend to be more stable once the subject is deceased, especially when they are very well known. AA (talk) 11:13, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'll do a co-nomination when you're ready, no real rush, you will have to remind me if its 6 or 12 months hence. The article is in good condition and ready to go. I did all of the heavy lifting with deletions and spin outs, and got it a copy edit from GOCE. The only real problem I had was with his domestic career, its lacking in content because I don't have any sources. But as you're a Hampshire man that would be neatly taken care of! Desertarun (talk) 18:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There are some things I think might be worth looking at in the article. I'll add notes to your talk page and ping AA in on that. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, in that case it'll be a triple nomination, or you could review it? Desertarun (talk) 08:58, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You can use the WebArchive tool to see the December 2023 version of the Lahore Tournament article. I'm not aware of any rule stopping you copying that and re-creating the article. --JP (Talk) 20:52, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Great hack, didn't think of that. I've recreated it. Cheers JP. AA (talk) 22:50, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Additional sources?
Hello all. I have expanded Robert Poore, and wondered if anyone has any sources which could expand the article further? I think he has FA potential going forward. AA (talk) 12:06, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You may have already checked them, but anything in his Wisden CotY, Wisden obit or Cricketer obit worth using? --JP (Talk) 12:44, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Cheers JP. I had read the CotY article, but overlooked a useful snippet about how his height affected his fielding. Hadn't considered The Cricketer, but found a couple of extra bits from that. Cheers. AA (talk) 13:24, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also wouldn't mind finding out where he was educated. Before I expanded it, the article claimed he attended Stubbington House School, though I could find no evidence to back that up. AA (talk) 14:43, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Images of cricket grounds
It's that time of year again! Cricket is in full swing in the northern hemisphere and it's time to dust off your cameras. A number of grounds need beautiful photos, a list can be found here. Snap away!!! AA (talk) 23:35, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Create a page on 2024 World Championship of Legends
The league has been approved by the ECB and is set to take place in Edgbaston, starting on July 3. It’s been created by Zabawa Entertainment, a distinguished Bollywood film and music production company, with roots in India and Dubai.

Several notable figures from international cricket over the past three decades have already been signed for the league, including Yuvraj Singh and Kevin Pietersen.Shahid Afridi has also been signed to take part in the league.

The tournament comprises six teams that will compete in the 18-match event and it will be played in a single round-robin format. The top four teams will make it to the semifinals followed by a Final on 13th July, 2024

Vikas265 (talk) 11:06, 28 May 2024 (UTC)


 * So what's written above is a copy-and-paste press release, and doesn't appear to have any coverage outside of Indian news outlets. Richard3120 (talk) 11:27, 28 May 2024 (UTC)


 * It should only be created if it meets WP:GNG. Which lots of these "Legends cricket" events do not. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 11:28, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * This is the same sort of request that Vikas265 made in March for the Asian Legends League. Richard3120 (talk) 11:32, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I really wish they would focus on better content. These hit and giggle leagues devalue our content and aren't remotely encyclopedic. AA (talk) 18:52, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

For, example are these notable?:


 * 2023 Legends League Cricket Masters
 * No Honking Twenty20 Series
 * 2023 US Masters T10 League
 * US Masters T10 League
 * 2022 Road Safety World Series (WP:REFBOMB for this one)

I'd argue not. AA (talk) 18:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Sources for Lionel Tennyson, 3rd Baron Tennyson
Hello all. Just began an expansion of this article. I think he has GA/FA potential, being a Test cricketer and England captain, with a lengthy career with Hampshire. If anyone has any sources they can add, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm happy to collab for GA/FA down the line. AA (talk) 20:34, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Stub articles
There are currently 32,117 stub articles in the Category:Stub-Class cricket articles; I visited some of them: These articles were stub when they were initially assessed but now, they are Start/C class articles. There's many more like this in the category which needs a re-assessment. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 15:26, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2024 ICC Women's T20 World Cup qualification - Start class
 * England women's cricket team in South Africa in 2024–25 - Start class
 * World Masters League T20 - Start class
 * ICC Academy Ground - Start class
 * ICC Men's T20 World Cup Qualifier - Start class
 * ICC Six Nations Challenge - Start class
 * India women's national under-19 cricket team - C class
 * ICL 20-20 Indian Championship 2007–08 - Start class
 * International cricket in 2016 - Start class
 * International cricket in 2018 - Start class
 * International cricket in 2018 - C class

Good article reassessment for Wisden Trophy
Wisden Trophy has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:40, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Squad templates for T20 World Cups
Why don't we have squad templates for every team playing at the World Cup for every season?, while we have the same for women's tournaments. These templates can not only be transcluded in players' pages, but also can be used in the articles of teams' performance at the World Cup.


 * For the past week, I've been creating articles for performance of teams at the T20 World Cup, for eg. Australia at the T20 World Cup. Instead of having squads listed for every season just like in the Cricket World Cup pages, we can replace them with these templates hence reducing the size of the page too.tead of

Cric editor (talk) 19:19, 5 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Please don't use templates. They're a right pain in the neck to manage for non-expert editors. Blue Square Thing (talk) 19:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, don't use templates to hide article content. Spike &#39;em (talk) 18:56, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why do you need to manage? Create them and leave on the cricketers' page Pharaoh496 (talk) 07:56, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Please read the guidelines and help pages for templates, specifically navigation templates. Also, data-dumps are not suitable for an encyclopedia (especially when they are just duplicating information already contained in other articles); the "at the T20 WC" articles you are creating need well-sourced prose throughout. wjematherplease leave a message... 10:03, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Articles like this one you created List of Gibraltar women Twenty20 International cricketers are going to get deleted. Desertarun (talk) 12:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * And this one 2024 Scotland Tri-Nation Series (round 3). The simple rule I follow is that if all I can write in the article leaves it a stub I don't create it. Desertarun (talk) 12:18, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 2024 Scotland Tri-Nation Series (round 3) shouldn't be deleted; We had articles for each series in the previous League 2 as well. Also, according to the Rater's algorithm the article is Start-class; should be reassessed. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 13:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Fair enough, I wouldn't vote for it to be deleted myself, but could see non-cricketers doing so. Desertarun (talk) 13:06, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This list was created following the same format of the similar articles that already exist, we have lists of players that have represented at International cricket for even teams that have played only one T20I, and if 2024 Scotland Tri-Nation Series (round 3) fails to have a standalone article, that makes all of these series' articles from previous cycle not notable too. Please let me know the issues so that I can correct them :) Cric editor (talk) 16:05, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why do the articles have "(round n)" in the title? Are there any sources that use that? Spike &#39;em (talk) 18:51, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There to state which round it is in the League 2. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 02:05, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Why can't the rounds be merged with the parent article? Desertarun (talk) 07:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There are 24 rounds giving a total of 144 matches; that many of them in one article won't be constructive. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 08:17, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 24 rounds sounds a lot. Sooner or later someone's going to try to merge, redirect or delete them. There has to be a better way than this? Desertarun (talk) 08:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The round info should just be mentioned in the body of the article, it is completely confusing to have them in the titles. How does anyone reading the title know which competition it is Round N of? It fails at least 3 of the 5 WP:CRITERIA. Spike &#39;em (talk) 09:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay so I looked through it, turns out rounds weren't initially included in the title until 2022 United Arab Emirates Tri-Nation Series (round 9) created by User:Lugnuts; since then it has been kept going on. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 12:29, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * guess it was to differentiate 2022 United Arab Emirates Tri-Nation Series (round 9) and 2022 United Arab Emirates Tri-Nation Series (round 10). Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 12:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Lugnuts was banned for creating tens of thousands of stub/spam articles just like these. Before doing any more work on these articles I suggest you find a work around that'll prevent them getting deleted or redirected. Desertarun (talk) 19:55, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * We could merge the 24 articles into 3 articles at least:
 * ICC Cricket World Cup League 2 in 2024
 * ICC Cricket World Cup League 2 in 2025
 * ICC Cricket World Cup League 2 in 2026
 * Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 01:03, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that would be better. Desertarun (talk) 05:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Naming of ICC events - especially the T20 World Cup

 * The 50 Over ODI World Cup is named the Cricket World Cup, without ICC or Men's even though the recent official name for the ICC given in 2023 was the ICC Men's Cricket World Cup. After discussion, the page was not moved due to following the common name. Same rule is followed for all of its related pages, categories and templates.
 * In contrast, the 20 Over T20I World Cup is named as ICC Men's T20 World Cup and discussions reaching the conclusion that we have to follow the official name. Same rule is followed for all of its related pages, categories and templates.
 * In the past however, (before 2021), all of the T20 World Cup pages had a previous name - The ICC World Twenty20: and did not have the word men's in it. Even on wiki where you're supposed to have a common continued name for all events - different ones are being followed - and contrasting reasons are being given in discussions to close them.

A possible solution from my side:
 * We can follow the Cricket World Cup style - remove ICC and Men's from all the titles of the t20 world cup pages - for eg. 2024 T20 World Cup, 2016 World Twenty20, List of squads for the 2022 T20 World Cup. For the women's t20 world cup articles - we follow the same rule - 2024 Women's T20 World Cup, 2016 Women's World Twenty20, etc. Same style.
 * Next year when the Champions Trophy is held - we see what name the ICC brings out and then follow the same style of naming.

Thanks for reading this far editors - I hope we can deliberate! I shall be pinging some editors who have historically commented here (having both opinions), just to have conversation. Not trying to brigade. Pharaoh496 (talk) 08:57, 1 June 2024 (UTC)


 * First, Thanks for inviting me to contribute to this, hope to come to an agreed solution.
 * I still believe Wikipedia should not be able to override or otherwise "edit" the name of an event when the official branding from the owning organisations change their naming schemes (in this case the ICC).This is ultimately why I still believe that we need to begin including gender specification as how the ICC now refers to the world up. This is why I believe that for a longer term fix, this might need a further discussion on whether or not Official names requires changes in how it handles naming changes. in addition we may need to consider whether Article titles is relevant (specifically the Name Changes section may require more consideration). I however have not had the time to properly flesh out and open a discussion on that page, if anyone else is willing to (and sees merit in seeking further clarification from the guidelines), please feel free to do so.
 * With respect to the solutions, I don't see much difference between the current naming scheme and the one proposed in the first point, and I am generally not one to "kick the can down the road" so to speak, and therefore not willing to wait till the Champions trophy to make a decision. It is for those reasons I am happy to leave the pages as is, until the guidelines are clarified on these types of situations. TheDataStudent (talk) 09:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That might be true, but shouldnt they have a similar categorization of naming? Either remove icc or keep it for all, and remove men's or keep it for all? Pharaoh496 (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Here's what I found:
 * A Google search for Champions Trophy gives these results:   - about ICC Champions Trophy
 * A Google search for ODI World Cup gives these results:   - about ICC Cricket World Cup
 * A Google search for T20I World Cup gives these results:   - about ICC Men's T20 World Cup
 * These are clearly the WP:COMMONNAMES. Given Wikipedia doesn't have ICC on Cricket World Cup article, don't think it's necessary on other articles as well. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 09:58, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That might be true, but shouldnt they have a similar categorization of naming? Either remove icc or keep it for all, and remove men's or keep it for all? Pharaoh496 (talk) 10:46, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * For the odi world cup, it does have men's in ever article except wikipedia. while that in itself is totally fine - atleast we should follow that style for all icc events. Pharaoh496 (talk) 10:49, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Discussions related to this moves have been made before too, one was just a month or two before I guess. I think it would be fine with removing ICC, but having gender differentiation I feel is still necessary considering women's and men's tournaments are held in the same year. Cric editor (talk) 12:35, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If you put women's in those pages, they are differentiated.
 * Exhibit A:
 * 2016 ICC World Twenty20
 * 2016 ICC Women's World Twenty20
 * Remove ICC and its no different @Cric editor Pharaoh496 (talk) 14:27, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree with it. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 14:57, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Add mens and its no different either, removing icc would require just the same amount of effort as adding mens.
 * Fundamentally this naming scheme mis-represents the status of womens events as somehow lower in the status quo as compared to the mens competition - it implies that the Mens World T20 is the penultimate competition in all of international cricket, and the womens game is just some seperate sideshow, I understand historical context may lend itself to that perspective, but it is no longer the case, and wikipedia should acknowledge and represent that. TheDataStudent (talk) 22:48, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I would also like to add that ICC Men's T20 World Cup was moved to a gender specific article. therefore we can modify other pages to reflect gender specifications if we are being so strict about WP:COMMONNAME TheDataStudent (talk) 02:30, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * If it helps, the same thing is followed in Asia Cup Pharaoh496 (talk) 10:30, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That is very very far from the case - All men's teams and competitions of all sports accross the world dont have the name "men's" in their wiki page - no one is saying that the women's team or event is lower in status. Its the common name followed. Pharaoh496 (talk) 07:30, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * You take any national team, any world cup; any ipl team and it does not have men's. This is the convention being followed, and the t20iwc should stick to it. Please do read again what I said in my earlier first message.Pharaoh496 (talk) 07:31, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
 * First of all, what other sporting bodies name their competitions is not relevant to this case, The ICC is not FIFA and FIFA is not ICC.
 * Secondly, there are many examples within cricket pages of Men's being in the title, ￼
 * ICC Men's Test Team Rankings
 * ICC Men's T20I Team Rankings
 * ICC men's player rankings
 * ICC Men's Test Team of the Year
 * ICC Men's ODI Team Rankings
 * If we are being so strict about WP common name for articles cricproject's remit, then there is more than ample evidence for Men's to be added as anything else related to the ICC contains a gender modifier. How individual nations decide to name their teams and competitions is not relevant because that's up to the national governing body. Anything directly ICC related/administered, like the World Cups, or Champions Trophy, should be named as per ICC naming schemes. TheDataStudent (talk) 02:33, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Rankings is different to what competitions are.
 * FIFA and ICC can be looked with the same eye as far as wikipedia names are concerned.
 * All these need a reform.
 * Pharaoh496 (talk) 06:34, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * 1. Both are ICC administered, therefore equivalent
 * 2. No they aren't and should not be. Thats like saying Nepalese Cuisene and Indian Cuisine are the same because they happen to share geography and a similar spice pallete.
 * 3. They don't need reform because thats how the ICC publishes rankings. 115.64.43.63 (talk) 07:09, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Read: WP:OFFICIALNAME and WP:COMMONNAME, We don't use the official names here; we use common names which might differ from the names published by ICC. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 07:16, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Take a look at International cricket in 2024 (and other seasons as well); it says women's tournaments but, doesn't say men's tournaments.
 * Furthermore, women cricket formats are WTest, WODI and WT20I but men's cricket formats are just Test, ODI and T20I not MTest, MODI and MT20I.
 * Looks like we don't need the gender differentiations in men's events as they are the main events and should only have a hatnote about it. While, women's events should have the term "women's" given the historical significance of men's events Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 00:52, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Pharaoh496 should start an RM for a better consensus,
 * ICC Men's T20 World Cup → T20 World Cup
 * ICC Women's T20 World Cup → Women's T20 World Cup
 * ICC Men's Test Team Rankings → ICC Test team rankings
 * ICC Men's T20I Team Rankings → ICC T20I team rankings
 * ICC Men's ODI Team Rankings → ICC ODI team rankings
 * ICC Women's ODI and T20I Team Rankings → ICC WODI and WT20I team rankings
 * ICC men's player rankings → ICC player rankings
 * Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 01:01, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Also some more:
 * ICC World Test Championship → World Test Championship
 * ICC Men's Cricket World Cup Qualifier → Cricket World Cup Qualifier
 * ICC Men's T20 World Cup Qualifier → T20 World Cup Qualifier
 * ICC Women's Cricket World Cup Qualifier → Women's Cricket World Cup Qualifier
 * ICC Women's T20 World Cup Qualifier → Women's T20 World Cup Qualifier
 * Under-19 Men's Cricket World Cup → Under-19 Cricket World Cup
 * Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 04:38, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hundred percent. I will get to it in a day. Pharaoh496 (talk) 07:46, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Started: Click here for the discussion @Vestrian24Bio Pharaoh496 (talk) 09:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:ICC Men's T20 World Cup
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:ICC Men's T20 World Cup that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Vestrian24Bio ( TALK  ) 09:51, 9 June 2024 (UTC)