Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Deaf/Archive 2

Linking for American Hearing Research Foundation
Hi, I've been trying to add several links to content on www.american-hearing.org, the American Hearing Research Foundation's information resource. Some of these are citations which verify information, some of them are personal accounts which could be helpful in learning different information about these diseases. One of the patrollers keeps deleting my information, and said that he would allow the links if the consensus here is that the information would be helpful. These stories would be shared: http://www.american-hearing.org/lindseysstory.html http://www.american-hearing.org/disorders/autoimmune/coganpatient.html Thanks!

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Profcitrus (talk • contribs) 21:34, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
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Thanks. — Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:03, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Are there enough articles on Wikipedia to justify an Outline of deafness?
Here's a discussion about subject development you might find interesting.

The Transhumanist 23:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

NPOV, #lots
(First, Hi, new to the project, I'm Deaf, a Classics/Anthropology student at University of Montreal, and if I manage to survive college, hoping that maybe, who knows, I can get some advisor interested in my ongoing literature review for some philological research on the historical perception of signed languages over, well, I don't know where and when really yet; you can call me Snap or Laura)

So the problem of NPOV on deaf articles is still there, but there's another problem of what might graciously be called foruming (troll is slightly less gracious). So I don't know how this could be arranged, but in recent cases we have comments threads on the talk pages of, say, audism where we get some comments like an old comment how "it should be illegal not to implant deaf people" (note: I did reply with a personal attack), how sign languages aren't real languages, or in the past, articles like Cochlear implant and Deaf culture having people tagging or participating in POV disputes because they, personally, have the gut feeling that deaf culture is, to quote someone, "a sham". So this leads to two nagging problems - the first is that one source of POV that seems forgotten is the people who while neither culturally Deaf nor medical professional somehow care about it for some reason, and who will participate in POV disputes and other things on the simple basis of their gut feeling/dislike of the idea of deafness as culture rather than the literature we have and the documents and will try to use wikipedia as a soapbox because they feel documenting things makes it a soapbox for whichever side they dislike, to the point of disregarding the sources - the second is that a lot of the talk pages that fall under WikiProject: Deaf basically end up looking like forum threads, with the egregious case of audism and the second ASL wiki request having a lot of blatantly audist comments. Rant over I guess, since I'm rambling and I'm not sure what could be done to help. Snapdragonfly (talk) 07:49, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * POV in the articles aside, (which still needs to be addressed though), so far my own concern is for talk page comments. The talkpage Snap is referring to is this one, the audism talk page. Now, besides her reply personal attack (which she admits to), I also removed the IP address's comments as audist. As it stands currently in No personal attacks, audism is a gray area. I thought it might be a good thing to open it up to people here to discuss if some of these talk page comments are audist and if they should be removed as per WP:NPA, and go from there. Thoughts? JoeSmack Talk 15:40, 28 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, yeah, when comments on a whole group of people devolve into stuff like "inferiors" (talk for deaf culture), "a sham" (talk on cochlear implants), uncited material on deaf people being a burden on society (used to be in the article cochlear implants proper), that their language family is just "a crutch" (talk on oh so many pages including audism), that the cultural deaf are evil/oppressive people and that deaf people should be implanted by force (talk on audism, two threads); it does also lead to a problem of people thinking their OR based on their own attacks, ignorance, etc on a group of people is special and worthy of completely removing lots of work that is sourced, documented, and only controversial in their minds for insulting unsourced POV that attacks a number of editors. Snapdragonfly (talk) 05:29, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

As an aside, people keep deleting the category deaf on the basis of a nebulous vote 2 years ago... why?
I just made a quick tally of the votes cast at the RFD listed here ] and I get this result: There is no consensus globally, and taken separately, the category Deaf, on an even better vote than the "1 abstain gave us a majority" thing was a keep, just saying. The problem is that not only this vote is being referred to as the sole cause of the deletion of this category, but it's now deleted because of this as a grandfather clause, which is based on a miscount by someone who didn't like the idea. The vote was decided on strength of the augments, except the augments are accusing these categories assuming possible collaboration of original research, which at least in the case of deafness and some others on the list is trivially easy to disbunk, and this kind of scrutiny would see a good part of the ethnic categories removed too, except for the fact that community there is taken for granted. I have submitted a request for deletion revision. Snapdragonfly (talk) 08:36, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Deceased, gets 7 to keep, 7 to delete
 * Deaf, gets 8 to keep, 5 to delete, 1 abstain - this is the clearest vote of the lot and it's keep
 * HIV+, Cancer, Cancer Survivor, all get 7 to keep and 6 to delete, 1 abstain
 * Synaesthetik, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, Colorblind, Periodic Paralysis, Diabetes mellitus, Astigmatism, Crohn's Disease,, Asthma all get 6 to keep, 7 to delete, 1 abstain
 * For Added Fun, the overall tally is that 7 delete most of it, 6 keep most of it and 1 is an abstention with a note that Deceased wikipedians is already a page elsewhere.

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:12, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

GA reassessment of De La Salle-College of Saint Benilde
I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:De La Salle-College of Saint Benilde/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:24, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Deaf articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release
Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Deaf articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 22:21, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Japanese Sign Language
In the article about Japanese Sign Language, one image is proposed for deletion. This is the only image of someone actively using JSL. File:Princess Akishino JSL.jpg is an unconventional image which shows the princess signing at high school sign language speech contest. As you may not know, this member of the Imperial family has studied Japanese sign language and interpreting for Japanese deaf. IMO, this is significant in the context established by Juno Saruhashi and Yuko Takeshita. "Ten Linguistic Issues in Japan: The Impact of Globalization," Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development. I don't understand the complaint. I can't figure out how to respond to explicit criticism that there needs to be "analytical commentary on the picture"? --Tenmei (talk) 18:05, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * ✅ The image of Princess Akishino was removed because a careful examination of the fair use rationale revealed critical flaws which could not be resolved. The discussion thread about deleting this file is archived at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2010 December 4#File:Princess Akishino JSL.jpg. --Tenmei (talk) 16:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Iranian Sign Language or Persian Sign Language
Technically, if the standard terminology is used, the country is included in the designation. For example, although English is "spoken" in America and Britain, the correct term for the sign language is not: English Sign Language. The correct terms are "American Sign Language" and "British Sign Language". I see conflicting terms for the Sign Language used in Iran and Afghanistan. The sign language used in Afghanistan is called: Afghan Sign Language. So should not the sign language used in Iran be called: Iranian Sign Language? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.198.12.194 (talk) 17:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Paddy Ladd
I just started an article for Paddy Ladd today. If anyone is interested in improving it, please feel welcome! Qaz (talk) 22:19, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Deaf, undeleting page
Is this page being redirected to 'hearing impairment'? Any objection if that page were restored into an ambiguous page with suitable etymology, definition, and several top-level references (i.e. societal, language, history, medical) page? --Egberts (talk) 01:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

The word "dumb"
Project members might be interested in a discussion at Talk:Dumb. Thanks. Cresix (talk) 21:30, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

New to WikiProject Deaf
I've recently joined WikiProject Deaf. My initial focus is to contribute to the neutral tone of articles where required. I welcome any suggestions that people may have on which articles I could look at.Russell Dent (talk) 12:04, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Welcome to ProjectWiki Deaf, you're finally back into the fold after a year-long hiatus? I've been working on the WikiProject Deaf recently, but I've been here for 6 years.  A good start would be to decide which path you want to take (all of which requires some editing roles)

Sounds to me you're shooting for general editing. May I suggest the following 'starting' material: Article development? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egberts (talk • contribs) 03:54, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Creating an article (the fun part; but gets deleted really quick if it doesn't measure up
 * 2) General editing (actual wording and rewording)
 * 3) Verifying the citation
 * 4) Rating editor (grading each article based on Wikipedia standard.)
 * 5) Admininstration (I'd try here)
 * 6) Developers (writing crazy automation tools for better organizing of Wikipedia)
 * 7) Quality Review editor (actual reading and petitioning for proposed FA 'front-page' material)
 * do not worry too much about formatting them properly. It would be great if you do that, but the main thing is to get references into the article even if they are not well formatted. --Egberts (talk) 04:02, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Would anyone like to tackle a question on the Reference desk?
Reference_desk/Language BrainyBabe (talk) 00:45, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Deaf Literature for Children
The Deaf Literature for Children is a new article which has been recreated having been previously deleted. The tone of the recreated article was still very promotional and, as a result, (rather than nominate the article for deletion again), I have deleted the body of the text, leaving only the list of books, which I believe has value and fits with other list of books on Wikipedia. It may be that I have been a bit too radical and I'm sure the article would benefit from input from editors with more specialist knowledge. I am posting here in the hope that someone in this Project might like to take an interest. --CharlieDelta (talk) 09:46, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

WikiSpecies
The WikiProject Deaf description page, section "Related pages in Sister Projects" refers to a related page "WikiSpecies: Deaf" -- I'm confused by this. Is the goal to inform about deafness within non-human species? Tommygchild (talk) 04:32, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Move request notice
There is a discussion under way at Talk:Hearing impairment suggesting that the article be moved to deafness. As that article is the core article of this WikiProject, the opinions of the project's members would be welcome. Please leave all comments at the linked page. Powers T 15:34, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

New Article: Canadian Hearing Society
I started an article for this, because I was surprised there wasn't one already - it's just in the draft stage (here: User:Mrs smartygirl/Canadian Hearing Society), please feel free to add/amend/etc. Or tell me to abandon it if you think it's not notable (I think it is... they've been around for 70+ years, and there were already 2 or 3 articles referencing it). I work here though, so I'm not exactly NPOV. Mrs smartygirl (talk) 16:45, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

ASL map
I pieced together a map of where ASL and its derivatives are used. It's quite crude, and could use help, if anyone here knows about sign in the relevant countries. I don't distinguish ASL from derivatives by color because I don't know how we could decide half the cases. (Foster established a bunch of ASL-based schools for the deaf across Africa in the 1960s and 70s; in some cases the resulting sign goes by its own name, and in others it goes by ASL, and I couldn't see any way to tell if this actually corresponded to any real difference.) There are probably countries I've overlooked, however, and others may turn out to be unjustified: Malaysia, for example. I've read that MSL is ASL-based, but also descriptions that suggest it has nothing to do with ASL, and similarly with Burkina. Also, 'significant use' is problematic. Obvious in the Philippines and Quebec, but maybe not Mexico: all I've heard is that ASL is used in Mexico, but I don't know where or whether it's significant. (I didn't include Madagascar, for example, because I didn't think 6k ASL speakers was significant compared to 180k Norwegian SL. Mexico might be in the same range.)

Anyway, any suggestions, corrections, or sources would be appreciated. — kwami (talk) 03:38, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Reassessment request
Since the assessment page gets no views (or at least it seems that way)... can someone reassess History of deaf education in the United States? I've done some work on it since its last assessment, and I'm wondering if it's gone up a class or two (it also needs its importance assessed). - Purplewowies (talk) 18:17, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Lip reading
If any of you are interested or feeling a little restless, sprucing up Lip reading with some reliable sources would be really nice. It's been tagged as unreferenced since 2008, so I think some work on it is long overdue.—Yutsi Talk/  Contributions  ( 偉特 ) 04:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Deaf Literature for Children
You are invited to join the discussion at Articles for deletion/Deaf Literature for Children. —Yutsi Talk/  Contributions  ( 偉特 ) 14:58, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Assistive technology
Hi Guys,

Can someone point me in the direction of a good source for assistive technology for deafness - the sections at Deafness, Assistive_technology, and Telecommunications_device_for_the_deaf leave quite a bit to be desired... Fayedizard (talk) 20:59, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

A Request for comment is taking place at Talk:Education of the deaf
There is a request for comment taking place at Talk:Education of the deaf. If anyone can, please add your input. Thanks. - Purplewowies (talk) 02:26, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Disability workshop in Sydney
Sydney people are holding a disability workshop on 10 November. On the page Meetup/Sydney/November 2012 we are building a list of needed topics. Please add to the list if you can think of any important deaf culture topics which need some serious work, or missing Australia topics. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

African American sign language
Here is a source about African American sign language: WhisperToMe (talk) 08:35, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Sellers, Frances Stead. "Sign language that African Americans use is different from that of whites." Washington Post. September 17, 2012.

Content donation of filmed signs in different languages
SpreadTheSign has contacted us and are interested in donating the films they have on their website under a free licens and upload them to Commons. As a pilot they are talking about a smaller part but they have somewhere around 100.000 films in some 17 languages and keep adding more films all the time. What is your take on this and how can we make them most of the films as they are on Commons. Is it possible to fit them in into wikipedia articles or are they more suitable on wiktionary? Would it work to have a small icon in the upper right corner looking like the "spoken article" or something like that but showing the filmed sign? Here you can see a film of the word internet in Swedish sing language to get an idea of what the films look like.

All ideas of how to make use of this is welcome.

/Axel Pettersson (WMSE) (talk) 14:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * About a year later... Some films are uploaded as a test, there is a landing page on Commons, and Spread The Sign are ready to do some larger batches. I think the total is around 200 000 films now divided in 17 (or more) languages. So far the Swedish and Polish Wiktionary communities have shown interest in the films, but I'd like to see some more ideas of where and how to use them. If you have any ideas you can either comment here, or on the landing page. If there are other places or communities you think can help, feel free to point that out or connect me with them. Thanks in advance. /Axel Pettersson (WMSE) (talk) 11:43, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Annotating files with sign language
Hi! I wonder if people who work on the Commons have annotated sound files with sign language? WhisperToMe (talk) 09:10, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Sextortionagent_interview.ogg currently has English subtitles and Spanish subtitles. An American English display would be nice to have as an annotation as well, but I'm not sure how that would be implemented

Infobox National Sport Association of the Deaf
Infobox National Sport Association of the Deaf has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:50, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

"Deaf" as a proper noun RFC on the "Deafness" page.
Hello. There is a RFC on the Deafness article talk page, on the use of Deaf as a proper noun to be used in the section on Deaf culture. I mentioned there I would seek assistance if I received no support, but rather than wait until that happens, and then go through the rigmorole of countering it with a separate request for comment I thought I might kill 2 birds with one stone. I request and invite any interested people here to join in on the discussion there to gain consensus quickly and present any arguments. In the meantime I've added my name to the list of members here. Thank you. -- Jodon |  Talk  14:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Capitalization on project pages
If Wikipedia policy is not explicitly to capitalize the word “Deaf” or any other such non-proper cultural terms, then it’s not appropriate to capitalize it in articles; is it appropriate for it to be capitalized on this project page? Because it seems to me like ignoring policy on a project page may be setting a bad example. —173.199.215.5 (talk) 20:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Talk pages and project pages do not fall under the same restrictions as article pages with regard to policy on style guidelines. On top of that, you are not entitled to edit other users' comments on talk pages, therefore reverting someone's use of a capital "D" is a no no, see WP:TPO. -- Jodon |  Talk  23:59, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I, um... didn't do that. Ever. I was asking about the WikiProject page, not any Talk page. —173.199.215.5 (talk) 07:55, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * So am I alone in thinking that displaying bad practice (something counter to consensus and policy) on a WikiProject page is setting a bad example for articles under that project? I don’t think there’s a WP: page that says either way, which is why I ask. But at least there’s no outright encouragement here of the non-consensus capitalization. —Frungi (same user as the above IP) (talk) 01:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Unless project pages are graded with the same guidelines as article pages, I think you're asking a moot question. Its almost like saying if I put capital D on my own user page then some user is entitled to change it. Lets restrict this issue to guidelines for article pages for the time being. And sorry if my reply to you as an anonymous IP user seemed in any way condescending. I do appreciate your efforts on this subject. -- Jodon |  Talk  12:04, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it's actually more like using poor grammar in an essay about grammar, or using Spivak pronouns throughout WP:Gender-neutral language. No one “owns” a WikiProject page; it’s in project space, not in user or talk space, and it’s possibly setting a bad precedent that goes against consensus—editors might see it, think it’s widely acceptable, and replicate it in article space. That’s what I was getting at. —Frungi (talk) 22:28, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

New
Hello, Who's there? I am French. I am create projet " culture sourde" French. --Halyna Haiko (talk) 08:20, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Disability is developing a style guide
Please see WT:WikiProject Disability where discussion about the distinction between Deaf culture and deafness has already occurred. Participation by editors with experience of this issue would be a great help. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:33, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * We need editors with specific experience of the topic to check that the attempt to explain the distinction between "deaf" and "Deaf" in the draft of the style guide is correct. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:12, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Categories for people with disabilities
I've started a discussion here about adding people with disabilities to the WP:EGRS guideline, and treating intersection categories of disability + job in a similar way to gender + job or ethnicity + job. See: Wikipedia_talk:Categorization/Ethnicity,_gender,_religion_and_sexuality. Please join and share your thoughts, your input is welcome.--Obi-Wan Kenobi (talk) 15:41, 29 May 2014 (UTC)