Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Archive 3

Expanding project scope
Aloha. Is there any interest in expanding the scope of this project or thoughts on sorting CfD, RfM, RfC, and other pages? It would greatly benefit WikiProjects if this project broadened its reach, as that would give each project the ability to monitor and manage topic and time-oriented workloads in a central location. Watchlists help, but new article/categories won't show up in time, and important proposals often get lost in a sea of recent changes. Allowing WikiProjects to review important requests and discussions will also improve the quality of the outcome. Thank you. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 03:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This seems entirely sensible to me, it should be faily easy to extend CFD and TFD so they can be placed in the same sorted categories. --Salix alba (talk) 12:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ideally, the sorting should take place during the nomination process. The onus could be placed on the nominator, and the tagging code could be modified.  If that's not possible, a project like this would have to remain active, but automating it with bots would help.  It seems logical to have at most three categories for every entry; for example, a biographical article on an Hawaiian musician could be listed in at least three WikiProjects: Biography, Hawaii, and Music.  WP contact people could watch these lists and move the entries to descendent projects if necessary (such as from Hawaii to Hawaiian music, if it existed). The only issue I have with the current process is that there does not seem to be a way of automatically archiving the entries, as it would be useful for the projects to keep track of this data.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 20:07, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

new list needed
WikiProject LGBT studies is looking for a deletion sorting list to replace part of the functionality of WikiProject LGBT studies/Notice board. Ideally this should be named simply WikiProject Deletion sorting/LGBT in order to avoid giving the appearance that the "studies" wikiproject owns the deletion sorting list. How do I go about setting up one of these things? — coe l acan t a lk  — 03:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * There's already WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sexuality and gender, is that suitable? the wub "?!"  11:36, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That will be quite suitable. Thank you for pointing me to it. =) — coe l acan t a lk  — 18:26, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

new national delsorts
can i just start a new page for countries that aren't there so long as i use the template & link it in all proper like? specifically on WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Middle_East i tacked on an 'other' category for a jordanian afd, which isn't the best solution. &rArr; bsnowball  10:18, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's fine. the wub "?!"  11:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Deletion sorting/Arts
This seems to be redundant now and has fallen into disuse, as it's covered by lists for Music/Visual art/Film & TV/Literature. Delete it? Tyrenius 03:07, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sexuality and gender
This page needs fixing (an upper case S in place of lower), the line that begins "tag discussions by adding..." has a "subst:delsort| s exuality and gender" that ought to be subst:delsort|S exuality and gender. It generates a redlink as it is. See and. I'd change it myself, but cannot find the source text that needs editing. Pete.Hurd 15:18, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed, it's automatically generated by a template. the wub "?!"  22:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Deletion sorting/Wine
I am proposing to set this up for the WikiProject Wine. Do I have to get appropval or just go ahead and do it? --Bduke 07:33, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Proposal for new subcategory
I think we ought to create a subcategory in Category:Wikipedia deletion sorting titled Category:Wikipedia deletion sorting by country. Otherwise, it can be difficult to pick out subject entries from between entries for nearly 200 countries. Also, can this be done while continuing to categorise through deletionlist rather than the traditional Category: prefix. -- Black Falcon 07:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Does silence translate to consent? ... I will be bold and will implement my proposed change. I am not a template expert, so I do not know if it's possible to continue sorting through deletionlist. Instead, I will create deletionlist-country. I will similarly subcategorise (through deletionlist-USstate)) delsort pages about states of the United States into Category:Wikipedia deletion sorting by U.S. state. If anyone has serious concerns about or opposition to the change, please let me know here or on my talk page so we can discuss the issue. If necessary, I will manually revert all of my changes. -- Black Falcon 20:01, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Standardising appearance of all country delsort pages
I will also standardise the appearance of all country delsort pages following the format below:


 * See also: link to appropriate regional Wikipedian notice board (if one exists)

Automated deletion sorting
It seems to me that a bot similar to AlexNewArtBot could be used to automatically sort deletion discussions. It would involve creating rules for each of the various deletion sorting pages, then the bot could scan the articles listed at WP:AFD, and if an article matches one or more of the rules, update the appropriate deletion sorting page(s). jwillburtalk 22:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Crime deletion sorting
An editor MadMax from our project WP:CRIME have proposed to add a crime/criminal-related deletion sorting, anyone like this idea? WooyiTalk to me? 19:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Strongly endorse the idea Sherurcij (Speaker for the Dead) 07:30, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea, so here it is: WikiProject Deletion sorting/Crime. John Vandenberg 15:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Redesign /Flat
What do people think of this redesign? -- pb30 < talk > 04:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I just added it to /Flat.

Compact delsort page
I have created a Compact delsort list by omitting the topic template for each entry and grouping the entries. This is going to be used as part of an semi-automated tool that I'm writing for delsorting. Any suggestions on how to make it more compact or easier to navigate? John Vandenberg 06:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I like it, must easier to use. The columns don't work in Safari, but its not that bad. Still less scrolling than /Flat. -- pb30 < talk > 00:16, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have updated divbegin, hopefully adding Safari support. I have also played around with Opera support, but that isnt yet working. John Vandenberg 07:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Compact page has been boldly overhauled. If you dont like it, or it breaks something, feel free to roll it back. John Vandenberg 06:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

New Javascript Tool
See User:Pb30/Delsort tab. Nearly the exact same code as deltab but has the following differences Any questions or feedback post here or on my talk page -- pb30 < talk > 16:13, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
 * When you click the tab it prompts you for the list
 * It opens the list in a popup window so you can add the AFD
 * Only works in Wikipedia namespace
 * Includes list and project link in edit summary


 * Great minds think alike! I have also written a Deletion sorting tool. John Vandenberg 02:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I found your tool after snooping around your userpage and love it. It was exactly what I was thinking of, I just don't know enough Javascript to make it :-) I did make a couple of changes though. First was the edit summary, I wanted something a bit more descriptive so I changed it to var summary = "Listing on WP:DELSORT under " + window['twDelsortType']; See my contribs for an example. Also I turned off watching the pages since my watchlist is big enough. -- pb30 < talk > 12:36, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Feel free to edit my delsort.js with any improvements you have made. I wont mind if it breaks, as I usually do delsorting work in spurts, so its easy enough to notice and adjust to any changes you have made before I get into it. John Vandenberg 15:38, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately I can't edit it since it's protected. I'm not sure if it can be unprotected, but maybe we can move it to a page under this project -- pb30 < talk > 15:46, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, sorry. I wasnt aware that it was protected; it makes sense tho.  I have moved it to WikiProject Deletion sorting/delsort.js. John Vandenberg 00:07, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Update
User:Jayvdb/Deletion sorting tool has been updated to support being used on the daily log, such as Articles for deletion/Log/Today. John Vandenberg 05:28, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

List Modifications
I think some lists could use some modifications: Thoughts? -- pb30 < talk > 18:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Split large lists
 * Film and TV: Film, TV
 * Music: Bands/Musicians, Music
 * Remove smaller, specialized lists (Beatles, Warhammer 40000, Guantanamo Bay)
 * Merge Websites and Fora into Internet


 * I'm glad you have gone ahead and done this. I have added a notices section on the project page.  Regular watchers on the old lists should pick up on the new lists anyway, so I doubt much more needs to be done.
 * Another list that I think is in need of a split is Software. My first thought was to create an "Open Source" sub-list.


 * WRT the smaller lists, my vote would be to redirect them to the closest match (for historical purposes):
 * Beatles => Bands/Musicians (WikiProject The Beatles needs to be informed/involved before we do this)
 * WikiProject Deletion sorting/Warhammer 40,000 => Game-related (amusing; all items listed here have been deleted)
 * WikiProject Deletion sorting/Guantanamo Bay detainment camp => Politics or Military (note this list has an article currently, so we need to tread carefully here; WikiProject Military history is the closest project I can see quickly)


 * Merging Websites and Fora into Internet is also a good idea, but I suspect that will cause the one list to become overwhelmed. We should consider how to split all Internet articles in half before going ahead with this one. John Vandenberg 10:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I like the opensource list. I was thinking software needed to be broken up but couldn't think of any criteria.
 * In regards to fora, maybe it should just be moved into Websites. This way Internet is still available.
 * There may be a bot coming that can help adding items to the lists, see here.
 * There is also a number of orphaned lists here that we may want to look at either using, redirecting, or deleting -- pb30 < talk > 16:00, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Looking at your list of orphans, "Software" has other related lists we can put back in use : Computers and Technology. I think we should be making Technology as a super list, with Software, Open Source and possibly Computers as sub lists.  I'm not sure what we would put under "Computers"; perhaps computer hardware.


 * Also, Mixed Drinks is a bit too narrow (it's just one project); I think it should be rolled into Food and drink.


 * Finally, there was a large number of musicals listed recently; I tried to spread them across a number of lists (by region first if possible) but accidentally put them on Visual arts. Obviously, these are performing arts, so I think a list for that is required. John Vandenberg 23:46, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I've notified WikiProject The Beatles and WikiProject Military about this discussion. I have unilaterally merged WikiProject Deletion sorting/Warhammer 40,000 into WikiProject Deletion sorting/Game-related. John Vandenberg 00:38, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Since I've been invited to comment, though I haven't been active in ages, I'll just say that the proposed changes seem very sensible. The "fora" page, if memory serves, was created in the hope of informing consensus about specific inclusion criteria for such articles. In fact, there were specialized forum criteria at one point, I think, although these have since been superseded by WP:WEB. An upmerge to Websites, perhaps relabeling that as "Web content," would seem best. Kudos to Jayvdb and pb30 for all the good work here! -- Visviva 10:02, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

User categories for discussion
Hello all. I was wondering whether it would be considered appropriate to list items from User categories for discussion on relevant deletion sorting pages. The one that has gotten me thinking about this one is User categories for discussion because I wanted to list it at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism. I would like to know if userspace categories would be within the scope of the project, though. Thanks! &mdash;Elipongo (Talk contribs) 23:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, ideally all types of deletions would be covered by this project. On most delsort pages, there is a spot for prod's, categories, misc., etc.  However just keeping up with Afds is proving difficult, and the next most important set of deletions would be prod's.  To be honest, tracking user categories is probably towards the bottom of the list for this projects objectives.  That said, I dont see a majar problem with user category discussions being added somewhere down the bottom of the delsort pages. John Vandenberg 02:53, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

falling behind
Hi, I have just finished June 28, but wont have time to do 29th or 30th. John Vandenberg 02:39, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Mythology list
This sure would be a big help, as would WikiProject Deletion sorting/Classical Studies. Please see WikiProject Mythology and WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome. CaveatLectorTalk 15:27, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We have a History list, which I think would deal with ancient history. Can you mention a few Afd's that you have seen that would justify a Mythology list? John Vandenberg 14:37, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there was Norse mythology in popular culture and Hydra in popular culture recently. CaveatLectorTalk 22:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The Afds referred to are here and here. Both could have been delsorted to popular culture as that is what the articles were about, but the later was not delsorted at all. John Vandenberg 05:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

More than just AfD?
Bit new to this whole area of WP, but out of interest, should - for example - images at IfD be listed in their respective sub-section using this method? Cheers. AllynJ 21:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, the deletion sorting lists usually have sections for deletions other than Afd, and I think that Images are the next most important deletion for this project to adopt. Also, I think we need to assist the "non-free image clean up crew" by increasing awareness of Ifd.  Are you wanting to work on Ifd specifically?  If so, I think we should give it a go. John Vandenberg 14:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic groups
A deletion sorting page exists at Deletion sorting/Ethnic groups. It should probably be moved to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ethnic groups (redirect, minor history). --Eliyak T · C 10:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Special:Prefixindex/Wikipedia:Deletion_sorting indicates it is the only page with a prefix of "Wikipedia:Deletion_sorting"; I've tagged "WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ethnic groups" with db-move in order to make room for Deletion sorting/Ethnic groups to be moved to that name. John Vandenberg 04:58, 27 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorted. the wub "?!"  14:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Dealing with Albums and Songs - placement in Music
A discussion has taken place at WikiProject Albums as a result of my adding PROD-nominees to the WikiProject talk page. There is an expression of not wanting to "cruft up" the talk page with discussion of individual deletion instances, which I can well understand. There are at least four options available: My feeling is that (1) is a step backward from where Deletion Sorting has taken us and that (2) takes a step down the road of over-categorization (for instance, I think that WikiProject Deletion sorting/Beatles is also a step down this road), which leaves (3) or (4). Choosing (4) would mix people and groups of people with non-people articles, while choosing (3) might be a good choice until the load in that sorting bin becomes too large.
 * 1) create a wikiproject subpage dedicated to deletion notifications
 * 2) create a new Deletion Sorting page dedicated to Albums, Songs and the like
 * 3) specifically include Albums, Songs, etc. in WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music as the physical forms that music takes
 * 4) specifically include Albums, Songs, etc. in WikiProject Deletion sorting/Bands and musicians as the products of bands and musicians

The decision I've come to is to include Albums, Songs, etc. in with Music for now. Right now I am focusing on PROD notifications rather than AFD. Could you weigh in here as to whether you think this is a good or bad decision so that consensus can be reached on what the proper longer term solution should be? Thank you. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 00:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I would have preferred option two, as some editors are more interested in some of these sub-topics than others, and as more focused topics make it easier to learn the correct criteria, lowering the threshold required to contribute. Beatles is an orthogonal topic, which unlike Albums is not a more focused topic in the sense relevant to deletion criteria. Also note that Albums is a much bigger topic than Beatles. As for a long term decision, some experience may be needed before making one. --PEJL 02:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, I was not ignoring or trying to duck under your suggestion of this on the WikiProject page ... I was just taking this step to get commentary (and do an interim action while discussion came in from WikiProject members) from a more general quarter in addition to from the specific WikiProject. I'm not opposed to your suggestion if that is where consensus leads us. Regards, --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No worries, I didn't think you were. --PEJL 02:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * If the way seems clear in a couple of days to create a sub-page of both WikiProject Albums and WikiProject Songs (that's Option 2 in the list), let's go ahead and do that. I'd like to include a cross-reference on WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music to these pages so people monitoring that page are aware of their existence. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 00:23, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Is this discussion still in progress? I dont like (4) at all; "Bands and musicians" was pulled out of "Music" because it was overflowing, and because bands/groups is about notability of people, which is a different set of criteria.  WikiProject subpages also worry me, as they are not centrally managed and thus are likely to be managed in a biased manor.  (3) is the approach I was taking when delsorting songs/bands a month ago, but (2) wouldnt bother me at all. John Vandenberg 05:05, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Ignore me, I see WikiProject Deletion sorting/Albums and songs has been launched. John Vandenberg 05:08, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That's ok - I went ahead and created the page when there was no objection or further input and there was some discussion there via edit summaries around formatting. I should have capped off this discussion with a note regarding that creation.  Regards --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 03:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

summarizing Results
The instructions at the various pages say: "remove a closed AFD from this page by deleting it." and yet I see archives of earlier debates. Culd someone perhaps explain what is the actual practice or policy about this. Personally, I think maintain some sort of by subject summary of closed debates to be extremely valuable.DGG (talk) 22:19, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Policy is non-existent. Practice is usually to just remove debates, I think most of the archives date from times with lower throughput. That said, I'm currently beavering away in python on a bot to automate clearing closed debates, and hope to include archiving. the wub "?!"  22:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Bot to clear out closed discussions
The bot I mentioned above, to clear closed AfDs from the deletion sorting subpages, is up for approval here. the wub "?!"  22:14, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that this should be run unless it also archives--the past record as now sorted, even if incomplete, is of immense help in figuring out what has been going on. DGG (talk) 05:42, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The bot now creates archives like WikiProject Deletion sorting/France/archive. the wub "?!"  13:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Fantastic! Any suggestions on where I should move my archive of Pokemon Afds? :-) John Vandenberg 04:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well there isn't a Pokémon section of WikiProject Deletion sorting, and I'm not sure there's a need for one. They might be interested over at WikiProject Pokémon though, since it's a nice list. the wub "?!"  10:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

American football?
Any objection to starting WikiProject Deletion sorting/American football? There seem to be quite a few related articles going through AfD, at least as many as the other sports categories. the wub "?!"  11:06, 28 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Good idea. John Vandenberg 00:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Created. John Vandenberg 04:28, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Adding lists?
I was really surprised when visting the project page that there are no instructions on how to add a list. Can anyone do it? Does the project members prefer that requests be made and they do it? For folks unfamiliar with the project who come here, you might want to consider adding this information. As to why I came here, I'm active over at WikiProject Aviation, and we could really use having a Deletion sorting list specifically for aviation articles. How should I proceed?  AK Radecki Speaketh  00:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I've drafted a "how to add new lists" message on the main project page.
 * Discussing new lists here first is advisable, and some sort of justification is needed to avoid having too many fine grained lists. Can you list a few examples of Afd's that would have made use of a Aviation specific list?   Note that we already have a WikiProject Deletion sorting/Transportation list, which isnt overflowing. John Vandenberg 01:28, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm..Transportation is a bit wider a category, but might do. I'll discuss whether to pursue at our project page. Thanks for the reply, and the draft, though!  AK Radecki Speaketh  03:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

List control
Do we need a separate List control page? It usually covers the same topics as this talk page. John Vandenberg 01:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's better to keep list change discussion on this page, since it's more visible. the wub "?!"  20:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Pornography list
There are quite a lot of PORNBIOs appear at AfD. Should these be sorted with Actors and actresses, or a new list at "Pornstars" or "Pornography"? the wub "?!"  20:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * My preference would be to create a new "Pornstars" list (tho I am not keen on that name) as they are people and it has its own deletion criteria. Also we have WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sexuality and gender which I think covers a lot of what would fall into Pornography. John Vandenberg 00:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've notified WT:PORNBIO and WP:P* of this discussion. John Vandenberg 00:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Well the proper term for a pornstar is pornographic actor (with pornographic actress redirecting to the same page). I can see it either as its own category (as John Vandenberg points out, it has it's own set of criteria for AFD's - WP:PORNBIO) or as a set/subset of the Actors category. Given that we're been having about 5 or 6 AFD's active at any given time for the past month or so, there's enough to warrant its own cat. Mind you, most of that activity is the work of one editor who is systematically clearing out the non-notables... once they've been purged I can see it dropping down in activity. How about this: set pornstars as their own category for now, but set things up so if/when the activity level drops the category gets folded into the general actors cat. Tabercil 12:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Tabercil, I presume you mean "list" where you have said "category" in the above. if so, the above all makes sense.  We can redirect one list into a more general list when/if the list falls into disuse. John Vandenberg 14:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Doh! You're right...  :)  Tabercil 14:41, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I wasn't sure about "Pornstar", I just thought "Pornographic actors and actresses" was too long. (And WP:P* is my new favourite shortcut!) the wub "?!"  11:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Lacrosse
WikiProject Deletion sorting/Lacrosse has not yet had a listing in over two months; can we kill it? John Vandenberg 04:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No objection from me. the wub "?!"  11:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and redirected to Sports. the wub "?!"  11:43, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

one day per project member
For a long time I have been considering setting up a page where people can put their name against a day to indicate that they intend to delsort on a day. Ultimately delsorting one day's Afds takes an hour or two even with delsort.js & popups.js, so it is a huge investment of time. If people can plan that investment we may end up with more people committing to putting in the time required. I expect we would end up with a lot of people willing to do a day of the "international weekend" (Friday - Monday), and others would be willing to do a weekday in the evening. Ideally, I would also like to see the "assignment" in a table like so:

Is this worth pursuing? John Vandenberg 13:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure about that, I certainly wouldn't be sure when I can do large amounts, it just tends to be when I find myself with some spare time. Deletion sorting shouldn't require a large investement of any one person's time. IMO we don't have enough active members yet to even try and sort every AfD, let alone the other processes. We do now have a reasonably organised project, a few dedicated members, and some useful tools. What we need to do now is attract attention and new blood, I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be keen to help. the wub "?!"  11:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the above will still be beneficial even with only a few members who work adhoc if the tools supported this. If this proposal gains traction, I would be updating delsort.js to allow users to log on the table that they have started delsorting a day, and a button at the bottom of the days log to indicate the job was done.  That way, other members know which days have been done and which are being done, and be able to start working on days that havent been started.  This will help us see which days need to be delsorted, and assuming we dont have enough manpower to do all days, we will be able to see what percentage of days are not being done. John Vandenberg 12:12, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

policy suggestion for Del Sort subpages
WP:MESSIANIC has recently had some issues with several articles showing up in the subpage used by WP:JUDAISM, which it generally does not monitor, causing great potential for a skewed vote. Due to ongoing editorial conflicts that are unlikely to abate anytime soon, I believe it would be a good general policy that every WikiProject have its own subpage in this WikiProject, so that the correct people are notified. (A well-intentioned editor has even taken some heat for attempting to bring some perspective into the discussion.) It makes a lot of sense that WikiProjects be able to easily monitor proposed deletions of content in their purview. Please consider this idea! ⇔ ChristTrekker 15:23, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Having a delsort page for every WikiProject will not work. When people delsort, they need to pick one or two lists that are going to bring in domain experts, which requires that we pick lists that will be on the watchlist of a broad array of people from different walks of life.  If we have subpages that are only watched by one WikiProject, the delsorting project essentially becomes a canvassing project.  Specifically, I think that setting up a messianic delsort list would exacerbate the current editorial conflicts more than it would solve the problem, as the new list would be closely watched by people wanting to cause disruption, and your project would have even more work on its hands.  Please take a look at /Compact to see how many sub pages we have to pick from.  The simple solution is for your project members to also watch the Judaism list, and use the project talk page to notify other members if/when an Afd is being railroaded.  IMO that is also the correct solution, as in my experience from family and friends in the Messianic movement, participants of your WikiProject will usually be well informed on Judaism and they should be participating in deletion discussion that fall outside the scope of WP:MESSIANIC.  Your members should also watch Religion for other topics of interest as we often put an Afd there if it doesnt fit within the scope of one of the Religion sublists.  It would not hurt to also watch "Academics and educators" and "Authors" as BIOs of religious experts are often listed there in preference to religion specific lists. John Vandenberg 01:02, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It would certainly be ideal for Wikipedia if every editor was willing to jump in and do more work, but that isn't ideal for Wikipedians. I rather suspect that people join a Project because they want to be involved in that project, not related or parent projects. ⇔ ChristTrekker 16:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not expecting you to actively participate in deletion discussions on other lists; merely that you have related lists on your watchlist in order to keep abreast of other pages that may be relevant to your preferred topical area. As we usually mention the page being added to the list in the edit summary, you should only need to read the watchlist to work out if it is a deletion discussion you are interested in. John Vandenberg 13:58, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Another opinion: WikiProjects use a variety of methods for monitoring ongoing deletion-discussion activities (see User:Ceyockey/Notifying WikiProjects of Deletion Proposals for results of a recent survey). It would be useful to provide some consistency to how WikiProjects report where their members look for deletion notifications, which could be done by approaching the WikiProject Council with a proposal to change Template:WikiProject and WikiProject organization best practices recommendation.  As for gettng definitive feedback on your proposal from the WikiProject community, approaching the WikiProject Council would be wise.  Personally, I would be more inclined to ensure coordination with Wikipedia Categorization rather than WikiProject areas of interest.  A spot-check of a handful of DelSort pages suggests that the majority of topical pages and ~100% of geographical pages can be mapped to single categories.  One way to increase visibility of the DelSort pages would be to categorize them  I don't know whether this would violate a policy related to the segregation of Main and Wikipedia namespaces from one another, though. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 04:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

delsort.js broken
Due to a large change in Twinkle, delsort.js is now broken. I will fix this tomorrow, but atm the fix is to use the old version of morebits.js. John Vandenberg 14:11, 7 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It should now be functional again. At the moment, the status window messages are not as orderly as they were before. John Vandenberg 03:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

List Modifications revisited
Well since there were no objections, I went ahead and redirected Beatles to Bands and musicians. I haven't done anything with Guantanamo Bay detainment camp, since it has some active discussions, and I'm not sure where to redirect it. I still believe it's too specific though.

I've put a few of the old proposals that got forgotten on the front page, namely closing Mixed Drinks and Fora, and creating Performing arts. I also reckon we should close Classical Tamil, which has the dubious distinction of not being edited since its creation in 2006, and Events, which is unused and overbroad.

Finally, I'm not sure about Game-related. It overlaps with WikiProject Video games/Deletion, which is active and well maintained. Perhaps it should be rescoped to "Traditional games" for D&D, Warhammer, board games, card games etc. the wub "?!"  21:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I've filed a Mfd for WikiProject Deletion sorting/Classical Tamil and notified the WikiProject. John Vandenberg 13:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Im concerned about leaving a topical area (i.e. video games) to the WikiProject's own maintained deletion sorting page as it encourages every project to create their own and expect people sorting to pick their page in preference to another closely related WikiProject. I think we need to be splitting the "games-related" list into two (traditional and video) and working out a way to do this in such a way that the WikiProject is happy to start using our list.  This is a common overlap that we need to start addressing.  As some food for though and some code to boot, this is talking about a bot that is feeding a noticeboard from the delsort list.  Perhaps we can standardise this, initially to support any projects that have a one-to-one mapping with a delsort list.


 * I'm not convinced that events isnt needed. John Vandenberg 13:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * For now I removed Events from the changes list, I guess it could be useful. It just hadn't been used at all in a long time. the wub "?!"  17:44, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Scuba diving?
Would there be any use for a WikiProject Deletion sorting/Diving? Anthony Appleyard 15:58, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems a bit narrow. Are there really that many related articles that go through AfD? I would suggest just maintaining a list within a WikiProject, the closest seems to be WikiProject Swimming. the wub "?!"  11:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. It is a bit narrow here but it could be done within a relevant WikiProject.   Tbo 157   talk  11:32, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Inactive Africa-related lists
(copied from List control)

WikiProject Deletion sorting/Africa is comprised mostly of inactive subpages. While Egypt, South Africa, and Nigeria have a reasonable amount of activity, the rest seem inactive. What is the correct method to propose that the inactive ones be deleted and the occasional nominations regarding those countries be included in the general list at the top? Nominate at mfd, or just discuss here and leave a note at the Africa project's talk page?

Specifically, Algeria, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, Morocco Senegal, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia have edits only once every few months or less. Many of us Africa editors, while focusing on a subsection of the continent, are nevertheless likely to be interested in all of the continent's deletion nominations, which is why deleting the subpages and listing the occasional nomination at the top is probably better. Picaroon (t) 20:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * No one has objected, so I'll redirect the inactive ones. Picaroon (t) 00:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Antarctica closed
I moved the "this page was discussed for deletion" template from here to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Antarctica, which I un-redirected for the purpose. I guess actual discussions regarding Antarctica delsorting should still go here, though. —David Eppstein 00:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)