Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Archive 4

Politics and Politicians
Back in June 2007, User:Pb30 converted WikiProject Deletion sorting/Politicians to a redirect pointing at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Politics. This was done no doubt with the best of intentions. However, it had the unfortunate side effect of transcluding the Politics deletion sorting onto the Biography deletion sorting page. As a remedy, I have reversed Pb30's action and subsequently transcluded the Politicians page into the Politics page ... which will have the effect that Pb30 might have been trying to achieve, that being a single page view of both Politics and Politicians. Hopefully this action will meet with general acceptance. Regards, --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 01:08, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Business and Businesspeople
I've also found that back in August 2006, User:Visviva did a similar thing, converting WikiProject Deletion sorting/Businesspeople to a redirect pointing at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Business. I have, like the situation above, reverted this back so the people and topic are separated. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 01:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Separating people from topics makes sense. Modifications to the lists should be added to WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Compact and WikiProject Deletion sorting. John Vandenberg 02:31, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I was not aware of seperation between people and other topics within the Business domain, but I would say that people account for small fraction (less than 5%) of Business deletions. I would say this sub-categorisation is unnessary.--Gavin Collins 15:00, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * When I deletion sort a business person, I have been choosing "People" rather than "Business" for business people. Im interested to hear how others have treated business people.  A persons potential notability is usually more diverse than that of a company.  Usually, a business person has done many other things in their life as well.  Business people are assessed according to Notability (people) whereas businesses fall into Notability (organizations and companies). John Vandenberg 15:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Your point is valid, but the creation of one more delsort category should not be done lightly; would it not be better only to create one if the statistics justified it? --Gavin Collins 21:29, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Requesting "Academic journals, societies and conferences" page
On behalf of WP Academic Journals, I'd like to request a delsort page entitled "Academic journals, societies and conferences" which would be proposed to cover academic journals, academic publishers, learned societies, academic conferences, academic awards and related topics. The past month's record at the project's deletion page would seem to indicate that sufficient traffic exists in this subject area. The topic would be distinct from the existing "Academics and educators" page. Thanks, Espresso Addict 00:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think this warrants a delsort page, but I am also as a member of that project so it would be good if other delsort regulars take a look. Recent discussion on the project talk page can be found at WP:AJ#Update on monitoring deletion. John Vandenberg 15:44, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm not a delsort regular at this moment, but I think it would be a good idea. --Lquilter (talk) 16:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Fine by me, only concern is the name is a bit long -- pb30 < talk > 16:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * "Academic topics"? Might confuse with Academics, which is biographical? --Lquilter (talk) 16:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed, the problem is distinguishing it clearly from the existing "Academics and Educators", without going overboard on the length. "Academic publishing", perhaps? Espresso Addict (talk) 21:22, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * there would be a point in having on are journals magazines and newspapers in general--or is there is one, and I dont know about it.? DGG (talk) 07:41, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I dont think that a delsort list has skipped your attention DGG. A "Publications" (history) was merged with Lit. in 2006, as it was being used for anything that was related to publishing (books, comics, etc); it could be re-opened with a different focus.  Alternatively, "Periodicals" would be a nice delsort list, as it does cover a number of wikiprojects. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be against including academic journals in with publications in general, as the expertise to deal with articles on, say, comics or consumer magazines is very different from that needed to deal with articles on academic journals. Also, it would be nice to cover academic societies & conferences too, as in practice these seem to be more often borderline than publications. This item has been on the request list since October with no opposition to the basic suggestion -- could we have a trial run of something, and see if it works? Espresso Addict (talk) 17:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Since this request has been made, close to eight months ago, we've been maintaining a de facto deletion sorting page that has now included 50 AfDs. (The format is nonstandard but that's easy enough to change.) Any chance of making this official? —David Eppstein (talk) 23:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

kinds come to mind ( all IIRC on details): 1) company sponsored "journals" containing company-favorable reprints or unreviewed papers along with nothing but company related "ads" and 2) self-published vanity journals claiming to do peer review but just wanting page charges- see my user page for two examples I just found. Frauds and notable mis-representers could make interesting and useful entries.
 * Comment : there have been a number of stories about "fake" journals. Two basic

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 03:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Requesting "Did you know" page
I am one of the DYK admin participants. The Did you know gives a five day review of new articles that is open to many reviewers and then lists appropriate new articles on the Main Page after one or more administrators agrees with the assessment that the article is one of Wikipedia's best new articles. Those involved in the DYK project have knowledge of these articles from their review and interest in these articles since these articles have appeared on the Main Page based on the decisions by the DYK project. Some of these DYK articles are listed then deleted at AfD without the input of the DYK project members, largely because the DYK project remains unaware that such articles have been listed for deletion. It is important that the DYK members be made aware of an ongoing AfD for a DYK article so that either DYK can change its practices or provide input regarding why the article was considered by DYK to be one of Wikipedia's best new articles. For this, please create WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Did You Know as a deletion sorting page for the DYK project. Thanks. -- Jreferee    t / c  16:27, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Requesting WikiProject Deletion sorting/Radio Stations
Similar to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Television, I think myself and my fellow members of WP:WPRS would benefit from a way to be notified of the upcoming deletion of a radio station-related article. Often, this is a matter of the notability of a particular station, and with thousands of radio station articles, its very difficult to go through and find these stubs before they are gone. Thanks for your consideration. JPG-GR 04:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I have seen a lot of Radio related Afds, and often thought that we need a deletion list for them. I think a new list should be broader than "Radio Stations", including radio programs and maybe even radio hosts.  Can you compile a list of recent Radio related Afds? John Vandenberg 13:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * An assortment from the last week or so (disclaimer: this is just a list, not necessary a list of debates I support or oppose): Articles for deletion/WLCM (Lancaster), Articles for deletion/CIMI-FM, Articles for deletion/KRFH, Articles for deletion/Marc Hochman, Articles for deletion/List of amateur radio organizations, Articles for deletion/Headbangers Ball Ireland, Articles for deletion/The Roadkill cafe. JPG-GR 16:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks like things havent changed - lots of junk articles are being created and nominated for deletion, and the occasional decent articles is also ending up there. Can you think of a better delsort page name, in order to encompass all of these radio related topics ? John Vandenberg 17:24, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Anything would be fine, I'm sure. I just copied the name from the similar page for WP:TVS. JPG-GR 17:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Radio ? John Vandenberg 18:09, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Haha, works for me. :) JPG-GR 18:31, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Any update on this? Seen a couple radio related AfD's and can't find a good place to put them. -- pb30 < talk > 18:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I created it, since there don't seem to be any objections. the wub "?!"  19:25, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorting vs Categorisation
This discussion has probably been aired before, but why can't AfD Categories be expanded, thereby avoiding the need to manually tag (or semi-automated tag) each AfD debate individually? It would seem to me that keeping an archive of the debates within these categories would be easier as well. --Gavin Collins 14:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Archive2 and User talk:Jayvdb. Its been a while since it was discussed so it doesnt hurt to revisit this. John Vandenberg 15:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In addition to those articles, I also read a few from the archive such as "Too Complicated", and it sort of answers my question why this project has not gone down the route of creating a large range of categories. I can see the difficulties with this proposal; having loads of categories would make drawing up an AfD realy tricky as you would have to select one from a very long list. Having said that, the current category coding struture is not very user friendly (O and F are the only ones I can remember). However, categories are so much more efficient than the delsort pages, which I could argue are just glorified lists at the end of the day, and as such are difficult to manage; the wubbot sounds like it is a really complex bit of programing to get the current system to work. If categories became the primary method of sorting, the way I would see it working is that even if 50% of all nominators left their category blank, it would be easier to correcly categorise them than having to tag every article and log it on the appropriate delsort page. I am probably not making myself understood here; does anyone see where I am coming from? --Gavin Collins 21:19, 25 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There seem to be two major problems with the way the current categories work. First, AfD nominators are often the least useful people to fill in the category. A significant proportion of current AfDs have a few word non-specific deletion reason ("NN", "NN bio"), and I suspect those nominators would never be persuaded to fill in detailed categories with care. Some good-faith nominators simply don't understand why the article is notable and therefore which category it should be filed in, and often articles of marginal notability turn out to have a relevance that's unclear at the outset. And that's ignoring those small proportion of bad-faith nominators who might deliberately put the item in the incorrect category in the hope it was overlooked.


 * Second, one can't watch a category. Perhaps something like the current prod summary could be used to generate a watchable list of items in a particular category? Espresso Addict 08:00, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with your two points, but even if none of the nominators fill in the category, at least 100% of all AfD's are categorised, if only because they fall into into one category, such as Category:AfD debates (Not yet sorted). You make a good technical point that categories cannot be watched, but I suggest to you that lists and statistics could more easily be drawn from them more easily. The point I am making here here is that without categorisation, too many articles fall between stools, and do not get sorted at all. My proposal is therefore as follows:
 * Expand the list of deletion categories to cover the most used categories (does anyone have statistics to indicate which categories are the largest?);
 * Use the categories as the source for updating automated delsort lists (to enable them to be watched), such as WikiProject Deletion sorting/Fashion;
 * Redirect our energies into sorting the uncategorised AfD's, so that the default or catch all category is kept to a minimum.
 * Note that this approach would one logical advantage: 100% of all AfD's would be categorised even if that category were to be called "uncategorised" .Does anyone follow my drift? --Gavin Collins 09:30, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Constructed languages/Edit wars and deletions
How could WikiProject Constructed languages/Edit wars and deletions be made into a better deletion-sorting/-notification list? Sai Emrys  ¿?   ✍  08:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Gambling vs. Games
On the WikiProject Gambling page, there is a suggestion for creation of WikiProject Deletion sorting/Gambling. Personally, I think this would be too narrow a DelSort page, that WikiProject Deletion sorting/Games should rather be created as a more useful page, with 'topic' cross-reference to Gambling and other WikiProjects not otherwise served by Game-related DelSort pages. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 14:44, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree as there is not enough delsort traffic through Deletion sorting/Games to justify a new page, even though this page could include sports, video, desktop and role-playing games. --Gavin Collins (talk) 17:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Update on personal deletion notification data page
FYI: The page User:Ceyockey/Notifying WikiProjects of Deletion Proposals has evolved and I've come up with a "3rd generation" table format that is working nicely. See User:Ceyockey/Notifying_WikiProjects_of_Deletion_Proposals. The aim of this format is to a) provide a link to where deletion-nomination notifications should be placed for each WikiProject, b) provide a quick-copy banner for placement on pages as they are listed on notification pages if they do not already have such a banner and c)providing some notion of notification traffic through the "proper" channel and whether that channel is endorsed by the WikiProject. I've come to think that doing both - ensuring proper notification and affixing a wikiproject banner - is the best minimum course of action to take on "endangered" articles.  I'm slowly moving things into the new table format as I do Deletion Sorting on PRODs and AFDs.  Regards, --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 16:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Bulk moving of comic characters to Wikipedia Annex
WP:NOTE now says that fancruft should be moved to Wikipedia Annex. This is actually part of Wikia, where Jimbo monetizes fancruft. Is it time to start mass transwiki efforts for minor comics characters? --John Nagle (talk) 17:17, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:NOTE says nothing of the sort. there are some proposals to that effect at various places. At this point, anyone doing mass anything without prior consensus is likely to be considered as disrupting the encyclopedia.DGG (talk) 20:17, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Anyone can transwiki an article at any time, regardless if it gets deleted on Wikipedia or not. -- Ned Scott 02:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I think I see the confusion. Nagle is thinking of WP:FICT, not WP:NOTE. Like I said, anyone can transwiki, but deletion discussions are another thing, and like DGG says, would need discussion before hand. -- Ned Scott 02:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Sorry, meant WP:FICT. Thanks. --John Nagle (talk) 04:29, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * And I agree with Ned that anyone who wishes to copy material to another WMF or other free wiki is always welcome to do so, as far as WP is concerned. DGG (talk) 07:40, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Images for deletion
Is it possible to add WP:IFD to this project? I notice some images have "project tags" on their talk pages. Flibirigit (talk) 18:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well on our hockey page, we put any deletion type on it. I don't know if we are meant to but I have been doing it on my own for a few months now. -Djsasso (talk) 04:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Requesting WikiProject Deletion sorting/Contemporary music subjects
Because of the highly specialist nature of the pages that WikiProject Contemporary music focuses on, and because there are relatively few of them going up for discussion at any one time it would be very helpful to have this lists. Many of these pages are quite academic (all sources from academic journals for instance) and it would be hard for an average Wikipedian to judge the notability of the subject or the accuracy of the content. (One way to judge what falls within “Contemporary music subjects” would be to just look for any article going up for deletion which is tagged with Template:Contemporary music.) Thanks, --S.dedalus (talk) 02:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

consistency b/w CFDs & AFDs
I'd like to propose a different kind of deletion sorting: One that would consolidate CFDs that recommend "listify", and AFDs that recommend "categorize". For some time editors at CFD and AFD have noticed that some kinds of topics get bounced around. The Actors who died in their 20s and Category:Actors who died in their 20s is a perfect example. Both are up at the same time at AFD and CFD, respectively. List/articles and categories have different functions and therefore different criteria for keeping or deleting, but it's apparent to many of us who observe both fora that there is not always perfect consistency in outcome, and certainly a lot of editors involved in only one forum and not the other don't "get" the other one, and make comments based on imperfect knowledge. Thoughts? cross-posted @ WT:CFD & WT:AFD & WT:Deletion sorting --Lquilter (talk) 16:41, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree 100%. If their is a potential outcome of a deletion discussion which would affect the jurisdiction of another deletion area (e.g. AfD affecting CfD), both should be notified so their input can be heard. In this case, editors on AfD, unaware of CfD precedents and policies (such as WP:OCAT, which is rarely used in AfD), were constantly recommending categorization for this article despite the fact they were being told that 1) a category existed 2) it was in CfD for consideration of deletion 3) CfD considered it against WP:OCAT to create such categories. Communication is essential and it seems to be lacking between the different areas. I would recommend either a notice board or a category for such deletion discussions which would alert of potential discussions affecting other areas, or both. Redfarmer (talk) 09:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Pb30 RfA
I'm up for RfA -- pb30 < talk > 18:47, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

academic delsorts
whew, it seems like this has gotten busy lately. any thoughts as to why? a few of them that i put in i felt the academic connections mentioned in the article were tenuous, but felt it better to get them on the list so that others could review. is this a shift in approach? --Lquilter (talk) 13:48, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It might be just a blip caused by the simultaneous nomination of 11 surgeons associated with CUMC. Which additions did you feel were tenuous? Espresso Addict (talk) 20:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Create WikiProject Deletion sorting/Belize
Should a delsort be created for the country of Belize? If one is created, please consider adding Articles for deletion/Carrie Bow Marine Field Station to it. --Eastmain (talk) 04:49, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Requesting WikiProject Deletion sorting/Amateur radio
WikiProject Amateur radio has been tracking amateur radio-related article CSDs and AFDs on its own for a while now, and a deletion sorting list would be helpful. The topic tends to attract the creation of articles about non-notable local organizations, dictionary words, etc. that should be deleted, but it might be hard for someone not familiar with the subject matter to distinguish between a notable international organization that for historical reasons has an unusual name or something that sounds like a dictionary term that really deserves to be expanded into an article on a concept or whose content should instead be merged into another article.--Kharker (talk) 16:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

adjustments to topic tempaltes at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sexuality and gender
I've made a few minor adjustments to the topic templates so that they link to as many categories and projects as they can. I had to create a redirect for Wikiproject Gender Studies because of its capitalization but now links to Category:Gender studies Wikiproject Gender Studies and to Portal:Gender studies. Similarly I reduced to  so taht the category is linked to as well (and it still retains its link to WikiProject Sexology and Sexulaity)-- Cailil   talk 17:48, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Consensus sought for spinout articles
Contributions are sought at WT:FICT, to try to determine whether the inclusion of spinout articles without real-world coverage has consensus support. Percy Snoodle (talk) 10:53, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Requesting: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Museums and Galleries
The Museums WikiProject has gotten off the ground and I'd like to request a page for museums and galleries that may come up for deletion. I don't know that there are many, but there have been a couple recently. Thanks! TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 20:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you provide a list of some of the recent ones ? John Vandenberg (chat) 01:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I can't work out how to make the search in chronological order but here are some that have happened.

2008:
 * Articles for deletion/International Museum of Women - current open discussion


 * Articles for deletion/Christian Music Hall of Fame and Museum
 * Articles for deletion/Delhi Tobacco Museum and Heritage Centre
 * Articles for deletion/Children's Museum of the Arts
 * Articles for deletion/Eva Brook Donly Museum

Depends on your definition of recent but these aren't too old and some are significant museums:
 * Articles for deletion/Unicorn museum
 * Articles for deletion/Living Torah Museum
 * Articles for deletion/Plains Art Museum
 * Articles for deletion/Law museum
 * Articles for deletion/Beer Can Museum
 * Articles for deletion/Three Valley Museum
 * Articles for deletion/Toy museum

There are more '08 ones, some were speedied and/or PRODed. Do you need more? TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 01:37, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. A list to include these seems warranted, under places of interest perhaps.  Ideally we want a list to deal with more than just museums.  Libraries, galleries and historical societies are closely related. A similar search for "library" AFDs in 2008 turns up:
 * Articles for deletion/Indian Valley Public Library
 * Articles for deletion/Midstate Regional Library
 * Articles for deletion/Norfolk County Public Library
 * Articles for deletion/Rancho Cucamonga Public Library
 * Articles for deletion/Freshwater library
 * Articles for deletion/Apple Pugetsound Program Library Exchange
 * Articles for deletion/Pierce College Library (LACCD)
 * I only found one 2008 "gallery" AFD
 * Articles for deletion/Bitforms gallery
 * A search for 2008 "hall" AFD has a few more, but they are mostly dorms; there are a few "hall of fame"
 * Articles for deletion/Plastic Hall of Fame
 * Articles for deletion/Dynamo-hall of fame
 * Articles for deletion/Isshin-ryū Hall of Fame
 * Articles for deletion/Accounting Hall of Fame
 * Most of those are resulting in deletion. IMO, there is a need for a new list; all we need is a concise list name that encompasses the majority of these topics. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Museums, galleries and historical societies are definitely within the scope of WP:MUSEUMS which was what I was thinking of when I requested a list. What about 'Cultural Organizations'? This is a term often used to refer to museums/cultural centers/performing arts (ie. Dance Companies)... Could encompass libraries as well -- I wouldn't have an issue transcluding the page onto the project with libraries included, although I'll own up to !voting delete for a number of libraries that appeared to fail WP:ORG for local orgs TRAVELLINGCARI My storyTell me yours 03:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd support this, especially if it were to include libraries; I've seen a reasonable number of museum/library articles go through over the past year without strong participation. "Cultural organisations" seems a bit vague, though. Espresso Addict (talk) 17:19, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Would WikiProject Deletion sorting/Museums and libraries be an acceptable title? If so I'll go ahead and create, since there seems to be a desire for it. the wub "?!"  17:36, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Done. Sorry about the delay, I get distracted too easily. the wub "?!"  22:55, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 00:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Requesting: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ships
I'd like to request WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ships be created. Some ship deletions would fall under "Military" and some under "Transportation", but it would be nice to have a central location for ship-related deletions in support of WP:SHIPS. Thanks. — Bellhalla (talk) 15:27, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Could you provide a list of some of the recent deletions. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:18, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The only ones I'm aware of were Category:United States Navy ships disposed of as targets and List of Liberty Ships by Hull Number (and several related "sub" pages). For the category, no one at WP:SHIPs, as far as I was able to determine, participated (or even was aware of?) the discussion, and, consequently, the category was deleted. For the Liberty Ship lists I was notified on my talk page, since I was the creator. Perhaps there have been others I'm not aware of, which is why it would be nice to have a "Ships" deletion sorting page. — Bellhalla (talk) 01:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless a list has a steady flow of nominations, AFDs wont be added to it, nor will people watch it. A list for all "Maritime" related topics might be broad enough to warrant a list.  I suggest you keep an eye on AFD and record any AFDs that can be topically grouped together, or hit the archives looking for related AFDs.  Aim for at least 5 per month. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Requesting: WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cyprus
Please create WikiProject Deletion sorting/Cyprus and add Articles for deletion/Anastasis Michael to it. --Eastmain (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll go ahead and create this soon, unless anyone objects. the wub "?!"  17:34, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Done (although not so exactly "soon") the wub "?!"  22:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Canvassing
How does this project prevent itself from crossing the line into Canvassing? --Rtphokie (talk) 17:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The answer is found in Canvassing itself. "Under certain conditions it is acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, but messages that are written to influence the outcome rather than to improve the quality of a discussion compromise the consensus building process and are generally considered disruptive."
 * Deletion sorting is to improve the quality of the discussion, not to promote a particular outcome. An example I'm very familiar with (because it's how I got started in delsort) is the baseball deletion list. Listing an article there won't get an automatic flurry of keep, nor a flurry of delete, !votes. But it will get input from people who know where to look for sources (including ones not found online), know the applicable policy, are very familiar with similar AfDs.--Fabrictramp (talk) 22:31, 14 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The question asked was a very valid one, and in fact, this answer simply says (as does the project description itself) that this kind of canvasing is just fine, whereas individuals telling other people that "hey, there may be a deletion diescussion you should go see" is invalid. It's the difference between a phone call and a media broadcast. It's still telling people to come and delete or save articles. For the philosophical Deletionist (who are very familiar with AfDs indeed) this is a tool to use to find articles to delete through Piling On and creating consensus. And "Telling people where to look" is simply a "legal" way of canvasing, and like much else in WP, it's hypocritical. - Nhprman 02:20, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it can equally be a tool for the philosophical Inclusionist, Mergist and (my own personal preference) AWWDMBJAWGCAWAIFDSPBATDMTD-ist. In that sense it is no different from the main AfD page itself. The real aim is to attract input into debates from people who know something about the topic. And that's not limited to the keep/delete/whateever decision itself, it can often result in improvements to the article. the wub "?!"  16:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That it could be used for Inclusionism is, I suppose, a possiblity, in the same sense that one could join a political party or church one does not agree with in order to learn what they're up to, but that's not a very efficient use of one's time, nor particularly gratifying to be amongst those who disagree with you all he time. The REAL intent can be gleaned from what you hinted at with the longest-WP-title-ever. Once one visits the articles pointed to by the Deletion Project and other sites, the Deletionists are waiting to pounce with Essays Pretending to Be Policy, and actual policies gang-written by (or at least over-strictly interpreted by) designed carefully by deletionist-in-mindset to shut down all discussion. I've seen several like this, and am witnessing one now, in which the Clever Little Admins' lawyerly slickness have gotten Deletionism-for-deletion's-sake down to a science. - Nhprman 02:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Rather a sweeping generalisation. Some admins are more disposed to inclusionism. Projects are exactly the place to notify interested users. Anyone interested can watchlist. My own observation as to the effect of WikiProject Deletion sorting/Visual arts is simply that it brings informed people to the date and helps to produce the most accurate outcome. I have seen no evidence of bias one way as a result. If anything, articles have been kept as those more familiar with and motivated by the subject have been able to produce suitable references etc.  Ty  02:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Categories for Economics and Environment
Environment especially deserves a category. Economics may not. I suppose the reason these don't have categories is that articles within their purview don't get deleted that much. I dunno. Anyway, it's a suggestion. ImperfectlyInformed | {talk - contribs} 22:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Deletion sorting lists are not created unless there is a demonstrated need for them, or the topic is so universally interesting that it is expected that it will attract a wide cross section of the community. i.e. we dont want a list that is only watched by a single small project; that turns delsort listing into canvassing.  My first thought is the "Environment" and "Econmics" definitely are suitable for delsort lists.  They may not be high traffic lists, but they are very broad topics. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:50, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, as John says, these seem like sensible lists. I'll stick them in the proposals section for a few days, just to see if anyone objects. the wub "?!"  16:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Game-related
The template  Game-related —~  gives something like "list of Game-related-related deletion discussions". Should this be fixed so the term "related" doesn't appear twice? Thanks. Kariteh (talk) 17:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Kariteh (talk) 08:03, 18 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm... I hadn't noticed that, it should probably be fixed somehow. Possibly a move to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Games? At the same time I was wondering if we shouldn't repurpose that list to avoid overlap with WikiProject Video games/Deletion. It could include D&D, wargames, board games, that kind of stuff, which covers enough to justify its own list. I'm not sure of a good name though. 4chan uses "Traditional games", which seems alright. Anyone else have an opinion on this? the wub "?!"  15:58, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Using AWB
Under Scripts and Tools it lists AWB as a tool to use for sorting Afds. I can't find any documentation on how to do this. I've tried running Afds through AWB with many different settings and nothing turns up. Any help? §hep  •   ¡Talk to me!  17:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Language
A question on WikiProject Deletion sorting/Language. Another editor resorted a discussion on a neologism out of WikiProject Deletion sorting/Language and into WikiProject Deletion sorting/Internet, giving an edit summary that the article is not about language. No problem, but it leaves me confused -- what is WikiProject Deletion sorting/Language for? Thanks!-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  21:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

help me out pls
There is a registered book 'Brhmaand Pujan' written in 1999 from a writer of India Naresh Sonee. http://brhmaandpujan-news-reviews.tripod.com/ It's a self based philosophy. How can I re put some information again on wikipedia. As time & again it get deleted on bias by a certain community in wiki ? Can you put my case/cause across wikiIndian Portal members? Regard --Dralansun (talk) 10:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Wiki Indian Project Members help out pls
There is a registered book Brhmaand Pujan written in 1999 from a well known writer of India Naresh Sonee. Notability issue could be sorted/verified out from this site-
 * http://brhmaandpujan-news-reviews.tripod.com/ . Acquainting you here, Wikibin engine had captured these two sites from Wikipedia. They are as
 * http://wikibin.org/articles/brhmaand-pujan.html
 * http://wikibin.org/articles/naresh-sonee.html
 * However one can come across infinite hits on search engines about Naresh Sonee or Brhmaand Pujan

Your good selves can go through the same and verifiy for assertments. The author has introduced a self based unique logical philosophy one of it's kind. Presently, how can I re put some information again on wikipedia. As time & again it get deleted on bias by a certain community in wiki ? Can you put my case/cause across wikiIndian portal members or Chairman of wikipedia? Or if possible can you put the same pages again by editing them as required picking up from wikibin promoting the same. Regard --Dralansun (talk) 15:22, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Transcludable XfD discussions
I have a proposal about the way we handle XfDs - please see Village pump (proposals).  JohnnyMrNinja  00:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Notification
I was wondering, why do sorters put the notification that a particular AfD has been included in a particular list (the Note: This debate has been included in the list of __-related deletion discussions notes)? They clutter the page in my mind, and I don't see any particular reason to inform those already in the debate that it has been listed somewhere else. What is the reason for this? seresin ( ¡? ) 01:41, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * One really good reason is so that the next person doesn't have to reinvent the, uh, sort. If I see a discussion has already been sorted, I move on to the next one immediately. The only way I see that is if the fine print is in the discussion.


 * Also, the fine print is how I got sucked in to deletion sorting. Always can use new blood.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  22:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Environment
I have created WikiProject Deletion sorting/Environment. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 04:48, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

New look
I can't say I'm a fan of the new look for the compact list. Much harder to read with the sorting script I use.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  19:46, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've boldly changed it back. This was really driving me nuts on the delsort script.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  14:07, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.
Thank you for starting this service, it will be a big help for those of us involved in wiki projects. AFD is just too busy to keep an eye on without tools like this. Cheers. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 19:05, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Adding Categories for discussion?
Is there a way to add, e.g. Category:People appearing in lesbian pornography and Missing film lists from Categories for discussion/Log/2008 July 6? Шизомби to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Film? Шизомби (talk) 12:56, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it would only be a link and one would have to remove the entry manually (the bot won't detect it). They do it on WikiProject Deletion sorting/Anime and manga. -- Ned Scott 21:40, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * There was recently an initiative to make the CfD discussions transclude in the same way that the AfD discussions do. This would make it possible for delsorting categories the same way that is done for articles. Some input from this project might persuade that community to implement transclusion. __meco (talk) 11:50, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Requesting: Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Gymnastics
...for any article that comes under the scope of WP:WikiProject Gymnastics -- ratarsed (talk) 18:11, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Have we had a lot of these articles up for deletion? I do a lot of deletion sorting and I'm hard pressed to think of any... (not saying they are there, just that none are coming to mind.)-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  19:41, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not a huge volume, (Golden Girls of Bulgaria was a recent one -- the other one my memory was telling me was a recent one was in fact an athlete). Might be worth holding off for a bit then... -- ratarsed (talk) 20:05, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * catscan might help here: . -- Ned Scott 20:49, 22 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Not sure what the "trigger" volume would be, but there has been 4 AfDs (2 still open) that I've seen in the last fortnight or so... -- ratarsed (talk) 12:30, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

History of photography
I see a new delsort has been added, WikiProject Deletion sorting/History of photography. Seems like it would make more sense to call this just WikiProject Deletion sorting/Photography, which would then include the history of photography, photographers, cameras and other equipment, and processes related to photography. Thoughts?-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  15:12, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * OK with me. (It was me who created the new delsort. I gave it its title as I thought of it as something of use to the not-so-many denizens of the somnolent "History of photography" project.) -- Hoary (talk) 02:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've boldly moved it, since no one else has offered an opinion. Off to update the delsort lists now.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  21:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Way to list templates?
Is there any (standard) way to get the TfD Templates for deletion/Log/2008 August 5 listed at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Lists? Thanks. -- Quiddity 20:11, 7 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Afraid not. You can of course just add a link manually, but will have to remove it once it closes since the bot can't handle anything other than AfD (yet). the wub "?!"  20:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Mathematics
As someone pointed out recently, there is no WikiProject Deletion sorting/Mathematics. Shouldn't there be? Granted, mathematical topics don't get nominated for deletion all that often, but occasionally they do, and the ensuing discussion often would benefit from, if not outright require, expert attention. (I've left a note about this proposal at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics.) —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 14:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there should be or not, but I've been listing math related articles under science.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  14:33, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Listing them under science is fine, both because there are so few of them and because they are also listed at WikiProject Mathematics/Current activity. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 14:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I just realized I didn't write my comment very clearly. (Hadn't finished my first cup of tea.) What I meant to say is I didn't know whether we needed WikiProject Deletion sorting/Mathematics. Off to finish that caffeine rush. :) -- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  15:04, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * If it will help the people at the deletion sorting project, I can't oppose it. But the math project is well enough covered by WikiProject Mathematics/Current activity, so it isn't necessary to do it for our sake. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 18:21, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

List of Australian #1 albums list decision reversal
Wikipedia recently decided in favour of keeping 3 pages, recently marked for deletion


 * List of number-one albums in Australia during the 1970s
 * List of number-one albums in Australia during the 1980s
 * List of number-one albums in Australia during the 1990s

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_number-one_albums_in_Australia_during_the_1970s

in an AfD case.

As the reasons / argumets for keeping these are basically the same for the recently deleted part of this same series List of number-one albums in Australia during the 1960s, how does one go about requesting for the reinstatement of the original work/page?

By the time I realised the page had disappeared in late August, it was too late to do anything about it, as it had gone. I had not logged in for quite some time under my username.

with thanks,Rusty201 (talk) 14:37, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Now at DRV. Moondyne 02:51, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Template:Drvl
Is Template:Drvl needed for WikiProject deletion sorting? Template:Drvl is relatively unused, but is based on the widely used Template:Afdl. Please expand on the documentation of these tempaltes. Thanks. -- Suntag  ☼  16:38, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Wot no theatre page?
Just wondering why there are categories for performing arts under Television, Radio and Film but not Theatre? I know there may not be many theatre articles out there that need deletion discussion, but they do come up occasionally, and with theatre being my area of interest, I'd quite like to know when it happens without trawling through the much broader Fictions and the Arts category.

Template:Topic items on page don't display correctly
The reason is that the page breaks the limit on 500 parser calls (6 per instance of topic) which I was informed about at Template talk:Topic. The solution, if we want to implement it, was also provided there. __meco (talk) 06:21, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Fictional elements
I propose moving WikiProject Deletion sorting/Fictional characters to WikiProject Deletion sorting/Fictional elements, so that ficitional characters, as well as ficitonal locations, events, artifacts are covered by this category, which includes all topics that form part of, or are a subset of, a larger over-arching fictional work. --Gavin Collins (talk) 22:35, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I support this reasoning. __meco (talk) 11:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I support this too, have put it under Notices and will go ahead if no one objects in the next few days. the wub "?!"  15:48, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Conflict of interest guidelines
I'm trying to get the conflict of interest guidelines rewritten to be clearer in terms of what is allowable from people with conflicts of interest. At the moment they seem to allow most edits, but there are also several parts saying COI editing is strongly discouraged. It is not clear whether COI editing is generally unacceptable or only when it results in bad edits. I have written a proposed revision of the guidelines, but because of my own conflict of interest I really don't want to make any kind of change without consensus. Since a lot of conflicts of interest result in non-notable articles which are then nominated for deletion, people who monitor this should put forward their thoughts at User talk:Helenalex/coirewrite or on the conflict of interest guidelines talkpage. --Helenalex (talk) 05:25, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"Science"?? What's that? Never heard of it?
Geography is fully one-third of this page, and science is one item under "topical". One could easily have made science one-third of the page, and geography one item under "topical". I wonder if one could tell exactly who wrote this page by it's weird POV? Michael Hardy (talk) 19:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * well, it reflects the fortunate rarity of articles on science getting nominated for deletion, due bßoth to their recognized importance, and the relative high quality of the articles. DGG (talk) 03:52, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Proposed refocus of WikiProject Deletion sorting/Actors and actresses
Per WikiProject Biography/Deletion sorting, filmmakers, directors and other non-actor film-related people are meant to be listed under WikiProject Deletion sorting/Film. I would like to propose that we instead list all such article discussions under a renamed WikiProject Deletion sorting/Actors and filmmakers. This change would be in line with the scope of the relevant WikiProjects, WP:FILM and WP:FILMBIO, and, I believe, be of benefit to those who comment in such discussions. Thoughts? PC78 (talk) 22:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd concur with such a reorganization, for the reasons stated above. Girolamo Savonarola (talk) 21:17, 26 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree. It's a smart move. I have run into problems with these categories a few times that this proposal would have solved. — Cactus Writer |   needles  08:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This change has now been made. PC78 (talk) 14:50, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Javascript anyone? Help add DELSORT to Twinkle
Please see the discussion here. ▫  Johnny Mr Nin ja  23:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Curated Lists in the Post Tree Killing Era
I would like to begin a general discussion of the need for curated lists, that is lists maintained by a human, when in many cases these can be generated in real time with a little thought. In the past, paper directories required great effort and resource usage to create. Today, in many cases, lists or directories can be generated with little resource waste in real time without fear of them being out of date. I have cited this in the past for one small quote about real time updates for land use records but you get the idea- maps are just detailed lists of road and features,

[ mashing keyboard and cursing while waiting for gui apps to fight over memory... ]

http://www.federalreserve.gov/SECRS/2008/December/20081210/OP-1338/OP-1338_7_1.pdf

"" The real-time nature of real estate information would require adaptation to the above examples, but there are examples where this can be accomodated too. The SEC, for example, offers real time access to company filings, http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcurrent optionally in a computer readable XML format. Something like this for all real estate events or transactions ( for URAR's as an example, but also including everything from building permits to foreclosures to more detailed appraisal and inspection data ) would be a great asset for those interested in examining the state of the industries. Certainly the volume of data would be large but manageable at least with regional facilities or some design care. I would also point out that if properly done to include all building and land use activities, such facilities would allow additional benefits such as maps ( from Google Maps to your personal navigation devices ) being updated automatically in real time ( and don't forget that the GPS system is a case study in public benefit from a free government information source). ""

Manually curated lists should be considered in light of the availability of automated means to generate better equivalent information. The proposed list that got me started,a list of insurance companies, could probably be generated from existing databases. While it is outside the scope of wiki to generate these databases, thinking about their existence or an interface to them may be of some help.

Comments or is this fully covered in other wiki discussion? It sounds like something that would have come up but AFAIK no one mentioned it on insurance discussion.

Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 22:49, 10 June 2009 (UTC)