Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Discrimination/Archive 5

"Ethnic issues in" vs "Racism in" problem
I just notced that while we generally tend to have articles about "Racism in Foo" entries (racism in the United States, racism in Germany, etc.) but we have a few (three, to be precise) exceptions named "Ethnic issues in Foo (listing them all here: ethnic issues in China, ethnic issues in Japan, Ethnic issues in the Philippines). Note that in all cases, racism in Foo country exists and redirects to the Ethnic issues in Foo country (racism in Japan->ethnic issues in Japan, racism in the Philippines->Ethnic issues in the Philippines) or has been forked (racism in China has recently been created following the failed move proposal for ethnic issues in China), but we don't even have redirects for Ethnic issues in the United States or Ethnic issues in Germany and so on, which further confirms how niche the 'ethnic issues in Foo' concept is.

Category:Ethnic issues doesn't exist but there is a singular exception: Category:Ethnic issues in Japan exits and is the only outlier in Category:Racism by country. Because Japan doesn't have racism, just ethnic issues, right?

Oh, and Ethnic issues is not even a concept that exists (hence the red link). Let's face it, it is just a wiki weaseling way of not having "racism in Foo" country because some people think it is offensive to say their country has racist history (a blocked sock was for years trying to get the page racism in South Korea renamed to ethnic issues in South Korea, because "racism doesn't exist in Korean law so by extension it doesn't exist in Korea"). I think User:Illegitimate Barrister was dealing with that mess a few years back (ping).

I did note that some folks have said that ethnic issues is a larger concept, but I am afraid this is not true - it is just a wider-looking race synonym. From the lead of our article on racism: "According to a United Nations convention on racial discrimination, there is no distinction between the terms "racial" and "ethnic" discrimination."

Few final notes about some other rare terms/redirects: "Racial discrimination in Foo" redirect exists for few countries, it redirects to Racism in Foo, except of course Racial discrimination in Japan redirects to ethnic issues in Japan. Same for "Ethnic discrimination in Foo", though we have one outlier Ethnic discrimination in Ethiopia exists (and is the only ethnic discrimination in Foo article that exists). Racism in Ethiopia redirects there, of course (I fixed it from a redirect to Racism in Africa which didn't even have an entry for Ethiopia until I added it).

Relevant past discussions I found:
 * Talk:Ethnic_issues_in_China. Ping participants: User:ZaDoraemonzu, User:3K008P9, User:Amigao, User:AjaxSmack, User:Walrasiad, User:Horse Eye's Back. I'd like to note that many of you have said that "ethnic issues" is a larger concept than racism - but I address this above.
 * Talk:Ethnic_issues_in_Japan, Talk:Ethnic_issues_in_Japan - both suggestions to rename the article to racism in Japan by User:Xanikk999, nobody replied to this discussion. Also Talk:Ethnic_issues_in_Japan/Archive_1, same by User:Kvasir.

Bottom line. Racism existed and exists in all countries and the very few countries that have "ethnic issues in..." rather than "racism in..." entry need to have that entry moved for standardization. The argument that there is some ethnic issues concept separate from racism and applicable to China, Korea, the Philippines (and Ethiopia?) and is just an artifact of bad naming/POV pushing ("no racism in our wonderful country!"). Template:Ethnic issues, full of red links, needs deleting (the corresponding, mostly blue, racism in Foo template cannot be linked as it is a dynamic template, but you can see it at the bottom of the relevant article). Oh, and note that the ethnic issues template is the main template for the Category:Racism by country...

I will be proposing four 4RMs for the affected articles momentarily. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:02, 19 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Race and ethnicity are the not the same concept. Crudely put, race is an immutable characteristic (or certainly regarded as immutable), ethnicity is a matter of mutable characteristics like language/culture. Ethnic discrimination seeks to force ethnic minorities to adopt the language/culture of the majority, and that if they do so, they will be indistinguishable. Racial discrimination does not end with that. Walrasiad (talk) 03:15, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , Even so, this could only be applicable to the Ethnic discrimination in Ethiopia article. We have articles on racism in many African countries, but Ethiopia is the only outlier. It doesn't make much sense. Also, we still don't even have an article on ethnic discrimination which is just a redirect to the relevant section in discrimination and even that section is titled racial and ethnic discrimination (Discrimination, to be precise). Ethnic discrimination is a very minor concept and I don't think there even is a scholarly consensus it should be separate (you are welcome to create a dedicated article for it that quotes scholars who think so, of course). Btw, racial discrimination has its own subarticle. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 03:26, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * We do? Where? That said, Ethiopia is divided by ethnicities (language primarily), not race. Amharic, Tigrayan, Oromo, etc. are not races, they're languages. I don't see the many articles on other African countries you're talking about. Unless they're actually talking about, y'know, race. Walrasiad (talk) 03:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , We do here: Category:Racism in Africa? Racism in Africa? Racism in Sudan, Racism in Zimbabwe, Racism in Libya... Anyway, the point is that distinction between ethnic and racial discrimination is mostly superficial and not universally acknowledged by scholars. Or the United Nations, as I already mentioned. PS. The distinction is further blurried by issues such as xenoracism, for example. Racism is racism, regardless of whether the target has different race, ethnicity or nationality. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:02, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not much. And relates only to places where there is (or has been) racial (not ethnic) discrimination (e.g. North Africa, South Africa, Zimbabwe) They're calling as it is should be called. They're using the term correctly.  You're not. Walrasiad (talk) 04:08, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , Aha. GScholar: "ethnic discrimination in Ethiopia": 4 hits, "racial discrimination in Ethiopia" 3 hits,, "racism in Ethiopia" 9 hits. While the topic is not very well researched, academic works do seem to support my argument at a ratio of about 3:1 (13 hits vs 4 hits). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:18, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That is some rather poor use of scholarly sources. Walrasiad (talk) 04:21, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , What do you mean by "use"? WP:IDONTLIKEIT? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:50, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Just for the record: the choice of title in Ethnic discrimination in Ethiopia was motivated by the sources. I'm not strongly convinced for or against the title change, which is why I've only (so far, at least) put a comment, not a !vote. Boud (talk) 00:32, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * User:Walrasiad, while "race" may be "an immutable characteristic (or certainly regarded as immutable)", racism (as reflected in the Wikipedia article) is now expanded and applied to groups with mutable characteristics (e.g. religions, cultural groupings, citizenship), returning to an older (19th century?) conception of race. Google "Racism against Muslims" for evidence of this. —  AjaxSmack  01:13, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Expanded and applied by whom? Is Wikipedia now playing the role of 19th Century scientists and inventing "races" and assigning them to the natives?  Walrasiad (talk) 10:44, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , You are confusing "race/ethnicity" with "racism/ethnic discrimination". The first group one is much more distinct than the second. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 04:27, 25 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I support the proposed moves, but only on a case-by-case basis based on the actual content of the respective articles. —  AjaxSmack  01:13, 20 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Comment. This is just to make sure that people know that there's a specific proposal Talk:Ethnic discrimination in Ethiopia to change the name of the Ethiopia article from Ethnic discrimination ... to Racism .... Please add Support or Oppose (in bold) or a comment, with arguments. Boud (talk) 15:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory has an RFC
Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 20:00, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Article alerts
Would you like to have article alerts added to this project's page? See: WikiProject Discrimination/Article alerts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ottawahitech (talk • contribs) 15:02, 25 December 2016 (UTC)

Origins of the word "discrimination".
As it had been told here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Discrimination&oldid=881402175

I believe people of the world are mislead by improper and blind usage of word discrimination. Let's try to unwind the roots of this word!

if CRIME is deed.

and CRIMINAL - is doer.

then IN-CRIMINATE - is to accuse of crime.

and then DIS-CRIMINATE - is to drop charges of crime.

IN and DIS are opposite prefixes, prefixes with opposite meaning.

And, I still don't understand why people remove meaningful contributions, without meaningful argumentation.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.140.230.171 (talk • contribs) 15:25, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Ilhan Omar has an RFC
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Discussion of interest
A discussion which may be of interest to members of this WikiProject can be found at Talk:Nazism. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:03, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Why is there no racism in Ethiopia?
Please see the discussion at Talk:Ethnic_discrimination_in_Ethiopia Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here  06:13, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I am sure there is plenty of racism in Ethiopia. This article however, describes conflicts between ethnicities, not races. We have gone over this before, and would be happy to go over it again. Also, just because your poorly-conceived RM failed, please refrain from vandalizing the article resentfully with tags. Walrasiad (talk) 00:17, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Missing white woman syndrome needs an urgent fix
If the article Missing white woman syndrome is viewed with Google Chrome for Android on the Mi Mix 2S, the text in the row of Shoshana Johnson, which is a woman of color, is significantly smaller than the white Lori Piestewa. Ironically that article is exactly about this kind of discrimination. You can see the screenshot here. I did not find any way to fix this with CSS, so it seems that Google Chrome’s AI to adjust font-sizes can be blamed here. As it is already known that Google develops racist AIs we urgently have to fix that. --2A02:908:1464:B00:CDDF:E777:AF29:F629 (talk) 11:40, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

Medical Racism
I am in the process of trying to gather research and figure out a format for a new article on medical racism. I've provided further details on my user page and in my sandbox and welcome any suggestions for taking on this project. Ijwilliams (talk) 23:26, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

RfC
There is an RfC that may interest members of this project at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style —valereee (talk) 20:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposed redirect: Race and crime→Race and crime in the United States
A redirect proposal that may interest members of this project is taking place at. –– FormalDude  talk 11:12, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

FAR for Ketuanan Melayu
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Join us! Become part of the Wikimedia Human Rights Interest Group. :)
Valued members of the WikiProject Discrimination!

Thank you for the wonderful work you all have been doing in regards to coverage of Discrimination topics on Wikipedia. We are reaching out on behalf of the newly formed Human Rights Team(HRT) at the Foundation. We are currently in the process of forming a Human Rights Interest Group (HRIG) that aims to listen to and address the various human rights concerns and challenges pertaining to the Movement, its members and the readers around the world interested in the content you produce. The HRIG is a cross-wiki, cross-cultural and cross-language initiative aiming to share knowledge regarding human rights challenges, ideas, movements and actors (both historical and current) from around the globe. With this in mind, we are reaching out to you to start a dialogue, present our ideas, hear your feedback and perhaps find some motivated Wikimedians to turn this is a successful initiative. Should this be of interest to you, please feel free to reply here or reach out to us at talktohumanrights@undefinedwikimedia.org. We very much much look forward to hearing from you. :) -–KUrban (WMF) (talk) 13:17, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Misandry
There seems to be a certain lack of consensus at Misandry. So I am asking interested editors at all related wikiprojects if they would care to help in some consensus building. Though editors should be aware that this topic can be divisive. Talpedia (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Nestlé boycott
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Nestlé boycott that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. 🐶 EpicPupper (he/him &#124; talk) 02:13, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

New stub Everything's Gonna Be All White created
I've created a new stub called Everything's Gonna Be All White. I've added 9 references to the article and have added the infobox as well as the overview, cast, episodes and reception sections, but the article still needs some work like expanding and the episode list reformatted to the correct format. — Mythdon ( talk  •  contribs ) 19:29, 23 April 2022 (UTC)

Notable anti-racism leader?
This American gynecologist and anti-racism leader has articles on two Hindi-language wikis and one English-language wiki. Is she notable for English-wiki? 89.8.76.141 (talk) 09:19, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources
I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like and turns it into something like
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.
 * John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from cite web, cite journal and doi.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

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- &#32; Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

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Help with new page The "Mighty Girl" Effect?
I just made https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:The_%22Mighty_Girl%22_Effect because it seems to be a documented scientifically proven phenomenon with no wikipedia article. I have no idea how to get it attached to other gender Discrimination articles on Wikipedia. Help please? Oathed (talk) 14:46, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
A user has requested that the page Reverse sexism be renamed and moved to Discrimination against men. Interested users may wish to join the discussion at Talk:Reverse sexism. Thank you. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 02:06, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Jews of Color
Please contribute to this new article draft on Jews of Color.--Coin945 (talk) 20:09, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Eviction in the United States
Hi, I think this article may be of interest to this Wikiproject. I plan to expand this page to include more information about discrimination in the eviction process. For more information, visit my user page! Sam7688 (talk) 03:07, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

User:Fastfoodfanatic/Race and transportation in the United States
I am working on a new article, which may fit well in this project. It focuses on the link between transport and racism. You may ask me questions on my talk or this page's talk! Fastfoodfanatic (talk) 00:40, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I recommend the title 'Transportation racism in the United States'. This looks like an interesting source. Larataguera (talk) 13:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples - Terminology
Hi guys I made a template to put on talk pages Template:First Nations Australians. If any of you could please take a look and see if any improvements need to be made. Thanks. AverageFraud (talk) 10:54, 1 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey All,
 * I have created a temple Template:First Nations Australians which is based on Australian Government Style Manual[11 ] and a couple of other sources, According to the style guide 'First Nations Australians' is now the preferred term over 'Indigenous', I feel like Wikipedia should also reflect this change. I have already made this change on Racism in Australia and Institutional racism § Australia. If anyone else would like to help with either the template, or changing articles with the term 'Indigenous' to the terms 'First Nations', 'First Australians', 'First people', etc. that would be great.
 * Thanks,
 * AverageFraud (talk) 07:39, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Lachout Document
The German article about the Lachout Document (a Holocaust denial forgery) needs an English translation since its ongoing renewed spread on social media. -- 2003:EA:F3C:3400:FA9E:94FF:FEEC:9B31 (talk) 00:40, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Trans bashing
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Requested move at Talk:2020–2023 United States racial unrest
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Good article reassessment for Persecution of Zoroastrians
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Request for additional input
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Source of income discrimination help
I made an article Source of Income Discrimination, but it was rejected because there wasn't enough content. I know there is also a page called Discrimination in awarding Section 8 housing that covers the same subject, but the title is a misnomer, since it is actually discrimination in housing due to having been awarded Section 8 housing or other government assistance (Minnesota has source of income protection, but it does not apply to Section 8 housing). Is anyone able to rename that article to source of income discrimination, since that is what it is commonly known as (look at the new ordinances in Phoenix, AZ; Lawrence, KS; etc.)? I would like to fix up that page, but the title is inaccurate and lengthy. Catboy69 (talk 19:52, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Category:Anti-white racism has been nominated for discussion
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Good article reassessment for Acting white
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Project-independent quality assessments
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United States has an RFC
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"Sex-based rights" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Merging Genocide of the Ingrian Finns into Deportation of the Ingrian Finns
There is currently a discussion ongoing on whether to merge Genocide of the Ingrian Finns back into Deportation of the Ingrian Finns underway here, for which further input would be very valuable. Felix QW (talk) 18:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

incels merge discussion
Hello, per point 3 of WP:PM, I am notifying this project of the merge discussion at Talk:Incel. This is based on a just recently closed AfD (see page of incels.is). The AfD closed with a consensus to merge, but since that consensus, I have increased the incels.is article a lot in sourcing and content though, so a merge may now not be necessary. 2001:48F8:3004:FC4:48EA:35CE:A536:B342 (talk) 20:37, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Discussion at List of intersex Olympians
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Anti-Arabism
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Requested move at Talk:Allegations of genocide of Ukrainians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine/Archive 1
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Requested move at Talk:Anti-Arabism
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Input requested at Zviad Gamsakhurdia
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Requested move at Talk:Israeli permit regime in the West Bank
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Good article reassessment for McCarthyism
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Good article reassessment for Water supply and sanitation in the United States
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Rosa Parks
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Requested move at Talk:2023 Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip
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Requested move at Talk:Weaponization of antisemitism
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Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:No queerphobes
There is a discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:No queerphobes concerning the essay No queerphobia. -- MikutoH talk! 22:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

"Wikipedia:Racism" listed at Redirects for discussion
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Merge discussion from Racial discrimination to Racism
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Requested move at Talk:Queer erasure
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Requested move at Talk:2023 Bud Light boycott
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Requested move at Talk:Afrophobia
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Aryanization compared to Affirmative action
Zezen and GizzyCatBella are comparing the anti-racist Affirmative action policy to the Nazi policy of Aryanization. This is deplorable, and Wikipedia should stop this! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Affinaffi (talk • contribs) 15:59, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Asking for outside opinions on the Blacklist (computing)
I need outside view in the topic: Blacklist (computing), especially from those who have experience dealing with racial words and terms in Wikipedia articles. — Arthurfragoso (talk) 16:18, 11 July 2023 (UTC)