Wikipedia talk:WikiProject EastEnders

Order of surnames in lead
Hi all. The article Jean Slater has got me thinking - I've always been in favour of the name Slater being the first name in the article and then Walters the "also" name in brackets, because Jean has been called Slater for over 10 years and only Walters for less than a single episode, so to put "Jean Walters (also Slater)" seems unbalanced. So I think it would be a good idea to use the WP:COMMONNAME (i.e. the article title) as the first name in the lead, and then other names (including the "current" name if it's not the "common" name) in brackets. For example: Any thoughts on this? – anemone projectors – 09:40, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Patricia Louise "Pat" Butcher (also Wicks and Evans)
 * Katherine "Kathy" Beale (also Mitchell and Sullivan)
 * Sharon Anne Watts (also Mitchell and Rickman)
 * Dorothy "Dot" Cotton (also Branning)
 * Kathleen "Kat" Slater (also Moon)
 * Stacey Slater (also Branning and Fowler)
 * Kim Fox (also Fox-Hubbard)
 * etc


 * I also think we should remove middle names and just have:
 * Pat Butcher (also Wicks and Evans)
 * Kathy Beale (also Mitchell and Sullivan)
 * Sharon Watts (also Mitchell and Rickman)
 * Dot Cotton (also Branning)
 * Kat Slater (also Moon)
 * Stacey Slater (also Branning and Fowler)
 * Kim Fox (also Fox-Hubbard)
 * There wasa major discussion about this somewhere (that would have affected all fictional characters) but the whole thing was archived before being resolved, so nothing ever happened. anemone  projectors  09:36, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd support the removal of middle names for sure, but maybe keep the Dorothy "Dot" Cotton ones. Some fictional characters have been known by both the full and shortened names. I think that discussion was at the infobox talk page. May be we should restart it to get a consensus? - JuneGloom07    Talk  12:56, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I can live with Dorothy and Patricia, etc. I found the discussions (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Soap Operas/Archive 11 for the original, Village pump (policy)/Archive 126 for the RFC). Although the originaltor of the discussion was indef blocked, I think he had a point about middle names. (The other thing I seem to have wanted to be removed was marriage/stepfamily years in the infobox, which I'd still be happy to see go.) anemone  projectors  15:54, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah, well done. I wouldn't mind losing the years for stepfamiles, but I think marriage years might be more tricky. - JuneGloom07    Talk  16:46, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

So the middle names have gone, we went with just credited names. The order or surnames has been brought up recently at Talk:Jean Slater so I think it's time to revive this discussion! — ᴀnemone  ᴘroᴊecтors  18:42, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this has got any further elsewhere, but it's something that's struck me recently on various soap articles (recently-married Elly Conway/Brennan from Neighbours springs to mind) so I'll chip in: surely the first name mentioned should always be that used in the article's title (and, therefore, what is considered to be the WP:COMMONNAME)? Having a disagreement between the two is extremely odd and places preference on the in-universe present; I don't see how it could ever be beneficial. At a glance, currently Kat Slater and Dot Cotton disagree with themselves, while Jean Slater and Pat Butcher do not. (Side note: after 17 years, is it perhaps time to consider moving Dot to Dot Branning?) U-Mos (talk) 01:14, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Characters needing independent articles
My opinion is that the following current characters should have independent articles, or at least drafts started so that they can become independent articles in the future: I may have missed or forgotten some. I also think that Buster Briggs, Louise Mitchell and Carmel Kazemi could be worked on but may not be ready yet, though we would see what sources can be found. I already have drafts for Gavin and Paul in my userspace, but they still require some work to be completed (even though Gavin's looks good, it's actually nowhere near ready and I want it ready before it is moved), and I've started one for Buster but not done any work on it. Is anyone a) already working on these or b) willing to work on or collaborate on them? If so, I suggest creating drafts in the draftspace, such as Draft:Les Coker and working on them there, starting with the information that already exists in the list entries and then expanding and improving them before having them moved to mainspace. What I don't want to see is a cut and paste from a list to a new article without any work being done and without any attribution being taken into consideration (as has recently happened with Lee Carter). Anemone Projectors  15:58, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Les Coker - please collaborate at User:AnemoneProjectors/Les Coker
 * Pam Coker - please collaborate at User:GSorby/Pam Coker
 * Paul Coker - moved to mainspace already
 * Gavin Sullivan - nearly finished at User:AnemoneProjectors/Gavin Sullivan
 * Claudette Hubbard - please collaborate at User:AnemoneProjectors/Claudette Hubbard
 * Kush Kazemi - please collaborate at User:Soaper1234/Kush (Sources much appreciated)
 * Jordan Johnson
 * Babe Smith - please collaborate at User:Soaper1234/Babe
 * Lee Carter - please collaborate at User:AnemoneProjectors/Lee Carter (EastEnders)
 * Donna Yates - please collaborate at User:AnemoneProjectors/Donna Yates
 * Kyle Slater - please collaborate at User:AnemoneProjectors/Kyle Slater
 * Johnny Carter - please collaborate at User:AnemoneProjectors/Johnny Carter (EastEnders)
 * Buster Briggs
 * Louise Mitchell - please collaborate at User:Grangehilllover/Louise Mitchell
 * Carmel Kazemi
 * Bex Fowler - please collaborate at User:Grangehilllover/Rebecca Fowler
 * I've added links to existing drafts - please add yours if you started any
 * What about Yvonne Cotton and Aleks Shirvos? Yes they've departed but they did have notable storylines?188.28.23.44 (talk) 12:40, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy for departed characters to be worked on to see if they are worthy of separate articles. For example, I also have drafts for Joey Branning, Kirsty Branning and Ayesha Rana. anemone  projectors  17:53, 14 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi,


 * I was wondering if I could maybe do Louise Mitchell and probably Bex Fowler if it's OK with you? And if it is OK for me to do Bex, would I go by Rebecca Fowler or Bex Fowler? Personally, I would go by Rebecca.


 * Thanks,


 * Grangehilllover (talk) 17:19, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
 * No problem. Add links here when you start so others can help out if they want. I would go with Rebecca for the title for now, as the list entry uses that name and it's the location of the main redirect. I've added her to the above list. anemone  projectors  07:14, 1 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi,


 * I've started the drafts and added the links.


 * Thanks,


 * Grangehilllover (talk) 08:54, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Don't forget to leave an edit summary saying you've copied text from another page (assuming that's what you did and didn't start from scratch), a bit like my first edit summary here because attribution is essential on Wikipedia. anemone  projectors  10:10, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

An IP (188.30.109.24) added Tracey, Yvonne Cotton and Sylvie Carter to the list but I removed them as a bot signed them making it look like either the IP had made my comment or I had listed those three. I'm not convinced any of them need an article or could ever get one beyond what they already have in the list entries, with the possible exception of Yvonne if there are more sources to find. Does anyone have any further thoughts? anemone projectors  12:36, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think there has always been potential in a Tracey article, it is just finding the right real world information. Soaper1234 (talk) 15:18, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh actually Tracey has more information in her list entry than I thought. If there was any more, I might support a separate article. But I don't think that would need working on in a draft. anemone  projectors  21:35, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm adding to the list: I would say that Keegan and Fi could become articles very soon. —  a nemone   p ro j ec t ors  12:41, 13 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Keegan Baker (User:AnemoneProjectors/Keegan Baker)
 * Fi Browning (User:AnemoneProjectors/Fi Browning)
 * Madison Drake and Alexandra D'Costa (User:AnemoneProjectors/Madison Drake and Alexandra D'Costa)
 * Karen Taylor (User:AnemoneProjectors/Karen Taylor (EastEnders))
 * Keanu Taylor (User:AnemoneProjectors/Keanu Taylor)
 * Bernadette Taylor (User:AnemoneProjectors/Bernadette Taylor)
 * Woody Woodward

If anybody wants something to do, please consider drafts for the following as well: And not forgetting that Carmel, Donna and Woody are current characters still with nobody working on them. Or you can help on any of the above existing drafts. Thanks. — ᴀnemone  ᴘroᴊecтors  12:07, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Luke Browning
 * Ted Murray
 * Joyce Murray
 * Aidan Maguire
 * Arshad Ahmed
 * Mariam Ahmed
 * Update on the list:


 * Callum "Halfway" Highway (User:Soaper1234/Halfway)
 * Hunter Owen
 * Hayley Slater
 * I've added Hayley as there are lots of thoughts that she may be the new Slater. Feel free to remove if this is denied/proved not to be true. Soaper1234 - talk  16:51, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

I think we should wait before suggesting Hayley to see how it pans out. But this one has been forgotten: Thanks! — ᴀnemone  ᴘroᴊecтors  16:51, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Josh Hemmings
 * I completely forgot - thank you Soaper1234 -  talk  17:15, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
 * We can definitely include Hayley now! — ᴀnemone  ᴘroᴊecтors  09:25, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Table
For ease, here's a table - just add to it as and when

Should a miscarriage be counted as a death?
(Ooh, controversial...) Is there, or has there ever been, a project consensus not to include miscarried babies in the list of deaths in WikiProject EastEnders/List of births, marriages and deaths in EastEnders? See recent edit history on the page. Kat Slater's unborn baby died in February 2003, but should this or should this not be included in the list? Anyone who has ever suffered a miscarriage would argue that the death of an unborn baby is effectively the same as any other human death, but is that taking things too far for the purposes of the project? The births/marriages/deaths list is not in main space and is just used as a reference tool for editors on EastEnders pages, therefore I vote to leave it in. Argument against: The baby was not a named character. There are probably other miscarriages that would also need to be included to be consistent. How far into the pregnancy was Kat Slater? If she was close to term, it should certainly be kept in. Rodney Baggins (talk) 13:52, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Stacey Slater needs attention and watchers
The page name, name on the first line, and name on the infobox are no longer consistent.

I would do it myself but I think I'm on the verge of a slow-motion edit war with non-logged-in editors.

A few years ago the page was moved to its current location per WP:COMMONNAME. I am not familiar with the show's recent history to know if the page should be moved or kept where it is. In any case, the infobox name, the first name on the first line, and the page title should be consistent. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  22:44, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * The page needs to stay at its current location. I'm trying to keep an eye out on the page as I know other editors are too. Soaper1234 - talk  20:51, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Rose Ayling-Ellis
Hi everyone, I have drafted the page for Rose Ayling-Ellis, who plays Frankie Lewis, as part of a project to expand the presence of deaf people on Wikipedia. I would be grateful if you could expand the draft and/or move it to mainspace. Thanks! Esamiarum (talk) 13:59, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

GAs that need to be trimmed heavily
Whitney Dean is a 2008 GA with a 6k+ word storylines section. I'm posting here in case anyone would like to trim it down by 80%, otherwise I'm going to create a GAR. Alyo (chat·edits) 16:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Same thing applies to Abi Branning, Dot Cotton, Cora Cross, Fatboy (EastEnders), and Chrissie Watts. These are all pre-2012 GAs that have just ballooned over the years and need to be cut back quite a bit. Alyo  (chat·edits) 19:55, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Your comments are certainly valid - I hate any storyline section in general and often tag the lengthy ones. These all certainly need to be trimmed considerably, for which I would like to ping, who does this task quite well. I will offer my help to some articles in a few days when I have more time on my hands as I am ruthless with trimming details. However, after seeing your edit on Linda Carter, I'd like to ask that you learn what storylines are necessary to keep, or perhaps leave it to those informed on the topic. You removed numerous storylines such as her marriage, rape, having children, alcoholism, losing her husband, etc, and replaced it with 1 sentence on who her relatives are which is covered in the infobox. I think that was lazy. – Meena • 00:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * In that case, I will just remove the storyline(s) section entirely. The paragraphs will continue to exist in the edit history, and anyone who wants can pull details and sentences from them there. Alyo  (chat·<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">edits</b>) 14:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I've trimmed all of the above GAs. It took a little longer to get around to than I thought, but June was busy. I enjoyed the task more than I thought I would - quite therapeutic and I'll probably continue trimming people with long plots instead of just tagging them as I've been doing for a while. – Meena • 18:10, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Haha I'll continue to tag you in as I find them then--those look much better! Alyo  (<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">chat</b>·<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">edits</b>) 20:19, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey, I am sorry for the lateness in reply. Over the next few weeks I am going to trim those storylines. However, I do agree with the above comment. Additionally, I thought it was quite rude that the storylines from certain articles (such as Babe Carey) were removed rather than tagged... it causes much more trouble and stressDaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 07:36, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Again, the content still exists in the article's edit history, easily available to anyone who wants to use them to build the articles out. I'm sorry if anyone takes these edits personally, but the burden is not on me to condense the content until it abides by our policies. Alyo  (<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">chat</b>·<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">edits</b>) 05:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I did not say AT ALL that the burden is on you to condense it. I am saying that you can easily tag them or alert editors (like you did above) rather than removing a big section of the article... DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 06:17, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You may not have said that, but Meena called my edits lazy and you agreed with the comment, so you can see how I read that. With regards to alerting/tagging, I brought those articles here because they are GAs. If I tag the articles with Long plot, the articles get added to a backlog of over 6k articles, dating back to July 2007 (Category:Wikipedia articles with plot summary needing attention). If those articles were not GAs, I would have removed the relevant sections, as I don't know that they will be fixed otherwise. I'm happy to create a running list of articles at WP:SOAP that need significant attention, although the current discussion saying that the storyline section guidance actually needs to be more inclusive doesn't fill me with hope. Alyo  (<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">chat</b>·<b style="font-family:courier; font-size:small">edits</b>) 19:05, 4 June 2023 (UTC)