Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements/PTG/Archive 1

2021
So, a major problem. Additionally, the category scheme recently changed, so I've set up a new subpage for the 2020 scheme. Someone needs to set up a page for the 2013 scheme as well. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 11:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Why keep old scheme's, except for illuistration., We don 't need them to design do we? "2020" is all. -DePiep (talk) 11:42, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Likely for historical reasons. –LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄ ) 13:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes. "Alkalimetals2018" does it. -DePiep (talk) 17:45, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 4 briefing

 * User:LaundryPizza03: I have made lots of edits, mostly technical to ease the editing (I hope).
 * See WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2020 for examples:


 * A color set be defined & controlled through a set-definition page, like: Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/set/2020.
 * The blind table can now easily be colored through . Must be 2020 chemical cat scheme, will improve later (so one can change, as in eswiki: "Po is OM here").
 * I did not disrupt the header (I hope). What do you think about this pages-&-header ideas:
 * 1. Each set definition (2020, 2021a) gets its own dedicated page (as 2020 has right now).
 * 2. These are listed & linked in one theader tab (ie, current Scheme page).
 * 3. The other header tab can be freed/removed/used for development discussion (eg comparing 2020 and eswiki). I find it not easy having to check two pages before I find part of the 2020 discussion/descrtiption.
 * 4. Less improtant pagelinks can be improved in the header too.
 * Todo: the blind legend can read set definition too. Will happen. ✅
 * If you have other examples you want to see, please say so (dewiki?).
 * Any tech ideas/suggestions?
 * Have a nice edit, -DePiep (talk) 22:15, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

LP03 color set, 28 Dec 2020

 * only now, I saw your proposal in . You want me to make a full page for it, here? It's ~free :-) Set name like "28dec2020", or "LP03-28dec"? -DePiep (talk) 16:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2020a. –LaundryPizza<b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 18:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

blind PT, '32-column' impression

 * A question, . I have created the blind PT into the "32-column" form, then removed some columns. My idea is to give the complete PT impression for this purpose. Do you think it is a good idea to evaluate the color sets?
 * See Periodic table/ptg-blind/sandbox. -DePiep (talk) 20:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes, since the table displays formats where f-block is inline (as in the navbox) without being too wide. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 20:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * (editconflict) ...or shall I make a blind PT in 32-column form like the navbox is? Periodic table (navbox) -DePiep (talk) 20:53, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * jargon clarified: yes, f-block in line is the "32-column" form, f-block below is "18-column" form. -DePiep (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Dedicated "setname" page naming

 * This idea: rename dedicated pages like "/PTG/eswiki" into "/PTG/categories/eswiki", so that we can handle them better, automatically & systematically. Like? OK but not "/categories/..."?
 * I have added "STATUS" and "DOB" options to standard the set options, are there more useful ones? -DePiep (talk) 19:28, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
 * (sorry for the miswrinting of your name ... LP03)


 * ✅ Per set, the dedicated dscription & checking pages is now, like: "/PTG/categories/2020".
 * See, should show all sdt-pages.
 * -DePiep (talk) 22:39, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 6 report

 * Dedicated page, like for "2020a", now in subpage /categories/ pattern.


 * Added top parameter to the Sets: DESCR (already there), DOB, STATUS, LOG.


 * -DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * -DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 7 report
LP03, if you have any questions or things that can help: tell me. -DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Created template "set-list" (short form of the Schemes page). Used in TPG-header (instead of big /scheme page block).
 * Created template "set-links": aline of links for eg "dewiki". Nice below the TOC I'd say.
 * Contrast table: added columns Lum, HSV, hue color show, RGB-decimal. Option no for blank cells
 * dewiki SoM: uses full red, blue! (not green then), and grey d8d8d8. Set definition edited.
 * -DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Note to LP03: I think it is OK to choose a bit meaningful ID for any set. So, "2020a" could easily be "2020-light", "2020-lighter" or "2020-wl-AAA" (no spaces I suggest). I seriously will work to keep all info within reach. -DePiep (talk) 21:51, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 8 report

 * Informed R8R
 * Added sets "DP-2020-rainb" "DP-2020-chess" (DP=me, DePiep)
 * Cleanup & template improvements
 * -DePiep (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 13 talk

 * Hi User:PizzaLaundry03 User:LaundryPizza03, sorry again. What, do you think, should we do first with this PTG?
 * Announce PTG at WT:ELEM (open up)
 * Stabilise these pages (less edits, & less moving around)
 * Propose at WT:ELEM to get rid of those State-of-matter fontcolorng
 * Discuss/evaluate your "2020a" CAtegory proposal?
 * -DePiep (talk) 21:33, 13 January 2021 (UTC)


 * Recent changes, here at PTG:
 * The topic Categories (with headertab) now has its own talkpage.
 * The topic State-of-matter now has its own page, headertab and talkpage (issue is at hand).
 * Ping User:LaundryPizza03. -DePiep (talk) 23:29, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 25: Up for Archive

 * I think about archiving this thread. The topic Categories is moot, and it is about initial development of this taskforce. -DePiep (talk) 21:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

2019–2020
much to do. -DePiep (talk) 21:08, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it needs updating now that we've gone back to the 2010 scheme with no "unknown" category (albeit with a lighter color for the alkali metals.) –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 11:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Basic analysis
, I'd like to establish a list of analysis & checks we want to do for any color set. For example, see WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2018 has some parts. Every set ("2018", "2020", "2021-A") best have its own page. Analysis:


 * Set id "2018"
 * Science needs (like number of categories)
 * Design principles, notes, descriptions
 * List of categories + their colors
 * legend with it (blind?)
 * blind table with it


 * A11Y contrast-checking (w3c) categories
 * vs. black font, wl-blue font
 * vs. State of Matter (SoM) font colors
 * add dummy text PT


 * A11Y Color Blind checks
 * External sitye to use?


 * Distinction checking
 * Can reader distinct category from neighbour? (by hexagonal graph?)
 * -DePiep (talk) 17:58, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I got to the hexes. There are currently 3 blank pages for potential proposals, which I have dubbed 2021a, 2021b, and 2021c. –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 02:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I see great setup improvements. I want to
 * (1) together develop a set of criteria (w3c contrast, color blind checks, distinction check); on page PTG
 * (2) build automated set-building (instead of c/p +set-edit all PT's & tables). For example module:PT graphics, standard blind table only to enter 2020b ;-) . Time-consumming...
 * -DePiep (talk) 09:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Hexagonals
I creted the hexagonal graph to be able to look for the colors themselves, not to recognise a PT. That is, when PT-experienced readers (like us) see a PT, we tend to use patterns, subconsciously, we already know. In this case: category knowlegde. So I left out texts ('blind'), and the known category pattern. I also turned the pattern into vertical, all to disrupt our pre-knowlegde and focus on color configuration (eg neighbours, recognistion) only. I call this check "distinction", as we want colors so that the reader can distinct diffferent categories=colors, from each other, into, and from legend. -DePiep (talk) 10:11, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ... and now I found your 2020 one ;-) -DePiep (talk) 10:14, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Color blindness

 * I started with colorblind filters (Coblis site). I made three CB-filtered prints of the hexagonals (downloaded images). But I am not sure about copyright status, so did not upload to Commons for now. I contacted the webowner for clarification. -DePiep (talk) 16:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Recognition and distinction of map colors

 * I have added a new checking-criterium,.

For now, it is quantitative only. It is the opposite of w3c Contrast checking, as it asks for more extreme colors. Contrast conformance, OTOH, leads to more pastel/bleak colors (good for contrast, bad for recognition). -DePiep (talk) 18:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Color list
Why can't we create a module to automate the generation of color lists in the style of Element color/example? –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 17:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * The module I was working on has too much requirements. I'll make template, based on set. ( is too complicated to handle).)
 * Which column do you expect?
 * Order nr, Cat abbrev, cat name, bg color box, color rgb triplet, note(opt). -DePiep (talk) 18:29, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Categories
I was proposing the following category tree for this project: –<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b> ( d c̄ ) 19:59, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Category:Periodic Table Graphics taskforce: Main pages
 * Category:Wikipedia periodic table color sets: View all color sets currently available.
 * Category:Wikipedia periodic table color set data: Index of color set data pages.
 * Category:Periodic Table Graphics taskforce templates: Templates used by this taskforce, mostly for testing purposes.
 * I have made this overview section: /PTG/resources#TPG_templates.
 * It has various sub-listings (like /set/...). Unfortunate, not for the main set pages (/2020). Could do that.
 * If you add the cat with &lt;noiclude> it might work (check for broken pages). (Do not add trailing spaces; the &lt; should be immediately after final code character).
 * Not sure if I will use the category, major page lists should be in the header I guess. -DePiep (talk) 20:12, 5 January 2021 (UTC)