Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film/Avant-garde and experimental films task force

It's begun
Anybody who's interested can start tweaking and adding their touches. You can even join the list of participants.  Lighthead  þ 23:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi, Lighthead. Do you know any other editors who may be interested in working on this kind of film? We can make this task force more full-fledged with its own parameter in the WikiProject Film banner, but I think it would help to ensure that the task force is viable. A lot of national cinema task forces were started, but pretty much all of them are quiet now. I personally encouraged a comic book films task force because a group of editors were focused on them anyway. The task force provides a sub-community for more specific guidelines and discussion. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 13:36, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * You can add it to the banner if you'd like. But how would you recommend inviting people; or do you think it's just gonna be people from Wikiproject Film? To be perfectly honest with you, I don't have a lot of friends (or in this case like minded ones) here on Wikipedia, even though I've been here about five years. Like I was saying on the Wikiproject Film talk page, my experience with creating a Wikiproject (Kabbalah), is that you just wait, and they just gradually come. On the other hand actively inviting people who were involved with articles of independent films might help. But see that's where I obviously rub people's hair the wrong way, because what I think is experimental is obviously not what other people do (I had no idea that people didn't think like me in that respect; maybe I had some hints). How could we come to a consensus on which films are of this caliber, because obviously people feel I'm suffering from delusions.  Lighthead  þ 18:16, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Tell me if you think we should chill, other than with the banner. Chill in respect to coming to a consensus (somehow). By the way, I'm not on uppers; I just have a lot to say. Ha ha ha!  Lighthead  þ 18:27, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * There's also something strange with the Wikiproject Film sidebar template. This talk page (the one we're witnessing here) is displaying as a redlink. I checked the spelling, and it's exactly the same; I don't get it.  Lighthead  þ 18:42, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * In my experience, it is difficult to collaborate with editors on a specific set of topics. Even though WikiProject Film is active with discussions, we all have our own projects going on. Sometimes our preferences overlap, like with comic book films, where a number of editors collaborate on the related articles. I do not recall any discussions at the WikiProject about avante-garde and experimental films in particular, so I think there would need to be some outreach to find editors who work on these topics. One way to do this is to track related changes and reach out to other editors. I am wondering, are you interested in improving articles about individual films or articles on broader topics (e.g., experimental film)? Speaking of the example article, it looks like has worked on it. Perhaps he is someone to invite? Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 19:26, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * No; everything as relates to avante-garde, experimental film. Even what's widely considered independent (in aeshetic, not budget as mentioned before). Thanks for the link. No, but everything as relates to it. Not just the articles relating to specific films.  Lighthead  þ 20:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)


 * So, regarding the banner; would we have to come up with our own little drawing. How would we do that? Do we have to enlist somebody's help? Bravo! Alfa! Papa! 22:18, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Koyaanisqatsi
Glad to see the creation of this task force. I appreciate the invitation to join, but I rather not list myself as a member mainly because the only film article I'm really interested in editing at the moment is Koyaanisqatsi (and maybe some minor edits to articles of the other Qatsi trilogy films). It's my favorite movie of all time and I really want to get that article to GA-class something within the next couple months (maybe sooner). If anyone is interested in helping out, I'd be glad to send you PDFs of the two main sources used in the article (book my MacDonald and article by Gold—both of which are offline print sources). – Dream out loud (talk) 08:38, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

Category:Avant-garde and experimental films
Category:Avant-garde and experimental films is of concern to me. A lot of films get added to this category, despite the fact that no references in the article indicate that critics or theorists have defined them as avant-garde or experimental. We really need to keep an eye on this (as well as other film categories) to keep the category from being filled with inappropriate articles. ---  RepublicanJacobite  TheFortyFive 19:37, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree. That's why I removed Koyaanisqatsi from that category.  I know it may seem that the film would fit in that genre, but after all the sources I've read, I have yet to see it referred to as such. – Dream out loud  (talk) 20:47, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it should be renamed Category:Experimental films, since avant-garde isn't really a genre, but a position in relation to other works within a specific time and cultural frame of reference. It's thereby subjective and unsuitable as a category (and regardless of that shouldn't share category with experimental films anyway). It's been up at categories for discussion before, but it was submitted together with a group of other articles, and nothing happened. Maybe it should submitted alone and then we can remove all films which aren't experimental, since that at least is easy to define (if the production was an experiment without a pre-determined outcome, the movie is an experimental film). Smetanahue (talk) 13:47, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Sorry I missed your response, Smetanahue, but I agree with you. Neither "experimental" nor "avant-garde" are genres.  The first is a reference to techniques of filmmaking, and implies nothing (necessarily) about content --- The Element of Crime, for example, is a policier or noir detective film, but done in an experimental style.  The second is more nebulous as it relates, as you have said, to "relation to other works within a specific time and cultural frame of reference."  A split of the two is in order. ---  RepublicanJacobite  TheFortyFive  16:24, 29 September 2011 (UTC)