Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/28

Roll call: November
Please sign your name below if you are still with the project.
 * 1) Greg Jones II 19:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 20:31, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Anomie 02:26, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Nanten 03:39, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) PresN 04:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Napster964 20:30, 8 November 2007 (Joining Wikiproject)
 * 7)  ZeWrestler   Talk 14:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy
A reviewer finally got around to GA-reviewing the Final Fantasy article and has placed it on hold for a couple of days, the fixes asked for seem easy so if anyone wants to take a stab at it we can get it up to GA quickly. --PresN 04:21, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late reply, PresN, but I think I can handle this with a little help of course. Greg Jones II 23:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The last main concern is the lack of citations in the "Game screens" section of the article. Currently there are two citations, but I haven't been able to find much else for the exact content that is there. Even if the article passes with what's currently there, this would probably still be an issue at FAC. If anyone can find some reliable sources to cite this it would be very much appreciated. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC))
 * Wouldn't it be possible to cite the manuals of the games in that section? Davhorn 19:16, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Or would it be possible to cite the Final Fantasy Retrospctive videos? Not sure if GameTrailers meets the guidelines, but there's a lot of information there. --PresN 21:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Huh, never mind, one of the two citations that got put in there already was from there. --PresN 21:39, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy has now passed GAN, and has moved onto FAC. --PresN 22:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge from Final Fantasy Summon Creatures suggestion

 * Result is : Redirect &mdash; Blue. 13:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

There is merge discussion going on in Talk: Final Fantasy magic on whether the article Final Fantasy Summon Creatures should be merged with Final Fantasy magic. Please participate following this link Talk:Final Fantasy magic, and thanks. &mdash; Blue. 17:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon
I just created an article for the upcoming game Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon: Labyrinth of Forgotten Time. Just thought I'd let everyone know. -- ZeWrestler  Talk 14:56, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm up for the merger thing, but just need to find out before we merge it - is the title Labyrinth of Forgotten Time already the official English title, and is there an official statement about it? Because if that's not an official title I'm afraid we'll have to go with the Japanese title for awhile and not merge just yet. &mdash; Blue. 12:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Locations in Spira
Just to inform you guys, Locations in Spira has been redirected/merged again, apparently without discussion. --Mika1h (talk) 16:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Taken care of. These move for silent deletions are evil and malicious! &mdash; Blue. 16:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And I would like to add that it was reverted because it was redirected without a discussion being made; a previous discussion had no consensus whether to merge or demerge. If there are any objections, please open a new discussion. Thanks. &mdash; Blue. 16:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy is a FAC
Wikiproject, the article Final Fantasy is now a candidate for a FA. Please leave your comments on the discussion, or participate in the FA effort. Follow this link here. &mdash; Blue. 16:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Final Fantasy is now a Featured Article. Congratulations to all editors who have been involved in editing the article. And thanks to everyone (such as I) who had supported the nomination. &mdash; Blue. 06:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge FFT with FFT:WotL?

 * The result is no merge. &mdash; Blue. 20:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

BTW, should we merge Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions into Final Fantasy Tactics? &mdash; Blue. 22:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think merging this would be excellent. Any other comments or objections? Greg Jones II 22:49, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Are we sure that it doesn't have enough to be its own article? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:56, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm thinking. There's probably more information for WotL than the article has now. In fact, it could become a good article in its own right. &mdash; Blue. 22:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Why don't week look around and see what we find, cause it could potentially bolster the FA nomination if it doesn't. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:02, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it can stand on its own, since it's a substantial modification more like FFIIIDS than FFIVA. The references could be bolstered, for example, using the dev podcasts I noted. Axem Titanium (talk) 23:09, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Roll call: December
Please sign your name below if you are still with the project.
 * 1) wwwwolf (barks/growls) 20:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC) (even if in only spirit; tons of gamestuff to do in other wikis, and I have to, you know, also play the games every now and then =)
 * 2) ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 21:25, 1 December 2007 (UTC) (playing games? huh?)
 * 3) Greg Jones II 22:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) PresN 00:09, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Axem Titanium 01:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC) College apps~!
 * 6) Nanten 03:27, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Anomie⚔ 14:53, 2 December 2007 (UTC) (although I'm trying to reduce my wikitime)
 * 8) Judgesurreal777 16:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

List of FF Media
Just a heads-up. List of Final Fantasy media needs improvement.

One of my suggestions is Logos for relevant media. Its use is for identification, and not decoration, as per argument by User:Seancdaug. &mdash; Blue. 13:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Two things. 1) Where did Sean outline his reasons? It would be great if we could point to an essay of his or something. 2) Logos for which things? Each game or specific projects (e.g. Ivalice Alliance, FF 20th, FNCXIII, etc.) or what? Axem Titanium 21:47, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Need some help on the Characters of Final Fantasy X and X-2 article
Someone changed some of the cast members on Characters of Final Fantasy X and X-2 back to the ones on IMDB and removed some the Japanese voice actors, which they are heard in the Japanese versions of FFX and FFX-2. I think this is pure speculation. I have mostly removed all of the incorrect cast members and changed them back to the correct ones. Also, this article needs copyediting and it is very long. I really need some help on this one. Any comments or objections? Greg Jones II 22:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Go for it, gotta get our wikiproject back up and running! And by the way, EVERYONE GO COMMENT ON THE FEATURED ARTICLE CANDIDACY!!! Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, sir! I will request this article at WikiProject League of Copyeditors/Requests ASAP! Greg Jones II 22:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Featured article candidates/Final Fantasy Tactics
I'm doing this again. &mdash; Blue. 22:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

If anyone is following the updates, we need more citation about this game's development, preferable from gaming magazines that came out in 1997 and 1998. Please, if anyone can seek out this magazines and see if there are any updates? &mdash; Blue. 20:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

FF8 Soundtrack layout Test
This one goes out to Teggles, but I feel should be discussed here: I noticed you changed the track list format for FF8. Since you said it's a test, I thought we should discuss it. Back in july, we had a discussion about this: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/23. The general consensus (between those that participated), was that collapsible was best, as those large lists are quite interruptive (especially on some other articles, like Music of Final Fantasy VII). Also, it was recommended to follow WP:ALBUMS guidelines relative to track list. You yourself said: "The only thing I really want is a clean implementation. The tables in the old Final Fantasy album articles looked far too messy." Now my point of view might be a bit biased, as I am the one who "wrote" (so to speak) the current collapsible track lists, but I feel the new tables are a step down compared to the old ones.

Further more, even if it works for the FF8 article, the current collapsible format is pretty widespread, and works well on most pages, were as this new double column table definitely doesn't work on all pages. Using it on Kingdom Heart's 13-CD Music page would definitely break the article.

Anywhoo, not that I want to harass you or anything, or revive an old discussion, but I felt conversation was necessary. That, and I'd be more than willing to change the layout and discuss. Personally, I feel the old tables were a wee bit complicated code wise, and didn't allow for subsections(required to use ). Other than that, regarding their appearance on the page, I thought they were perfect :).

Thoughts?

happypal (Talk | contribs) 20:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I was wondering if there were some way to make a standardized template for the albums wikiproject that was collapsible and etc. to make everything conform and also aid implementation of new style consensus. Axem Titanium (talk) 21:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I second standardization. We have varying styles used in each tracklist for each games. &mdash; Blue. 21:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's do-able, but we would have to be careful about the approach we take. It appeared to me that most of the people at WP:ALBUMS kinda look down on the anime/game articles with music in them, as they are so non-standard, and isn't real music (I might be putting words in peoples mouths here, so don't take this at face value please). Further more, I don't think they really even care...
 * I had some trouble to even get them to consider a standardized table scheme (rather than list), but I think it might be possible, with the right amount of talk. If we find consensus here, make sure our articles respect WP:ALBUMS (+collapsible), then I will bring it to them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Happypal (talk • contribs) 06:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for your help on this. If a standard template could be made for this, I'd imagine it would be helpful to them too. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I would doubt an actual template could be made, however, I'm sure a standardized guideline would be no problem.happypal (Talk | contribs) 07:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Is anyone working on this? Be nice to know before I start fixing the track listings for all the FF music articles.  Also, is there any sort of standard way to do it?  Currently, with the exception of FF8, all track listings are collapsible with just text "1. "name" length, except when they're a table.  Which one is standard?  FF7 was set up to be text only except when the Japanese names were listed, where it was then a table.  I changed them all to tables to be consistent, but it's a lot of work if it's only going to be reverted.  --PresN (talk) 20:31, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * According to WP:ALBUMS, you can either do it text only, in this format: "title" (artists) – length


 * When things get more complicated (like multy-language tracknames), and only then, then it is okay to use tables. These have specified headings, which should be #; Title and Length. The table/section title should be "Tracklisting" and not "Album Tracklisting".
 * More detail here, and here
 * This is why FFVII had both tables and text. When a table isn't strictly needed, text should be used (which means you actually shouldn't set them all to tables, to be consistent). These are the current WP:ALBUMS guidelines. happypal (Talk | contribs) 02:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is that WP:ALBUMS guidelines are made for 1-album only style articles. This means that our current problems:


 * 1.: Should we mix tables and text in an article, or try to use the same, or consistency?


 * 2.: How do we put in track listings, whith-out being interruptive?


 * For 1, I believe using current WP:ALBUMS standards (mix it up accordingly)is best, as it adapts to each and every track lists.


 * For 2. The answer I got is that Tracklists collapsibles shouldn't be used (for technical reasons: text-to-speech, browser integration etc...), and that if they are interrupting the article, either split the albums, or remove them.


 * For the life of me, I cannot agree with WP:ALBUMS on this one, and I believe we have to come up with a new guideline here on WP:FF. I believe Collapsible are needed and should be used (maybe sparingly, but still be used) IF we find consensus, then we try to go up to WP:ANIME and WP:VG, who also use "Music of" articles. For this reason, I am creating a new discussion about this.happypal (Talk | contribs) 02:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Fallen from Grace
Here are our former Good articles we should try to get back up to snuff. Aerith is back at GA (hurray!), and here are the rest of them. Two of them specifically are important as they support our two featured topics. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:41, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

To get to FL status again...
 * List of Final Fantasy media - To keep our featured topic

To get to GA status again...
 * Spira (Final Fantasy)
 * Locations in Spira
 * Cloud Strife
 * Sephiroth (Final Fantasy)
 * Chocobo World - To patch up our other featured topic
 * Chocobo Racing


 * The only issue I know of for the List of FF Media is the Lead Section, which to me is just fine, but others did not agree. Any lead experts? &mdash; Blue. 16:44, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sigh, hold out for just a week or so? I'll finally be out of the mire that is college applications then. Axem Titanium (talk) 17:37, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Dead links update
I saw that somebody was trying to run my tool from this project. However, they set it up wrong so I re-ran the job. The previous job was ran in late August and had 117 consider dead of a 281 that should be looked after. Compare with the latest job which has 55 / 131, the job when through the 206 pages with a total link count of 2370 (avg. 11.5 links per page). —Dispenser (talk) 07:26, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Question about articles

 * Characters of Final Fantasy Tactics
 * Characters of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Especially in the case of Tactics Advance, I wonder if these two topics need their own articles, and perhaps they should be merged into their parent article, and in the case of Tactics could be helpful if any of that information is not already in the main article. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 21:34, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * No one wants to touch this subject? Ok... Judgesurreal777 (talk) 00:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps not merge. Not at the moment. Both needs to be trimmed down and copyedited. &mdash; Blue. 01:04, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Tracklist layout guideline
Having failed to gain support from WP:ALBUMS for multy-album articles like MoFFVII, I thought we could try to find a guideline here on WP:FF. If we find consensus, then I thought we could bring it to WP:ANIME and WP:VG, who also tend to use multy-album articles every now and then. This is why I am putting forward 2 propositions: In a multy-album article, each Track list should be either in table or list format, according to WP:ALBUM standards, based on that Tracklisting's needs. There is no need to have every track lists in the article in table or list format, "for consistency".

Should in an article the tracklists are too long, disrupt the general flow of the artcile, or otherwise compromise its integrety, then it is recommend to use a collapsible tracklist. Inside the collapsible, should be the tracklist, as edited under general WP:ALBUMS guidelines, in list or table format, according to the situation. This should be done in such a way that the un-collapsed tracklist should look no different than if the tracklist was not collapsible at all.

Let me just add that I'm not sure about n1. Maybe we should use all tables or all lists for consistency. I'm not sure about this one, I'm just looking for consensus here.

Thoughts, impressions?

happypal (Talk | contribs) 03:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I support proposal 2, and am still undecided about proposal 1. --PresN (talk) 08:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I support proposal 2, but I am not sure about proposal 1.  Greg  Jones   II  15:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)a