Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Final Fantasy/archive/31

PageStatus
Just to let you know, PageStatus makes WikiProject lists of articles easier to manage! You may wish to implement it. --Aquillyne-- (talk) 20:24, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:FFIII
Template:FFIII has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion atthe template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Kariteh (talk) 19:59, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Old members?
Hi. This really isn't relevant, and please don't hate me for it, but I was one of the guys who set up this WikiProject. I dunno what compelled me to come back and see but I just wanted to say I'm glad its still going after Seancdaug got the ball rolling back in mid-2005. :) I guess I'm just wondering if anyone remembers me, and if any of the original crew are still around. Sorry if this is a little selfish! — Cua HL 04:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As I wrote on your wall, there are people that still remember you. Good to hear from you again. --
 * Hey, Cuahl. I'm not actually still around, but I do pop my head in and lurk from time to time. I'm deeply impressed at how far the project came since I threw my hat into the ring a few years ago. – Sean Daugherty (talk) 19:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Music of Final Fantasy XI
Music of Final Fantasy XI has been nom'd for GA. Please feel free to review/comment/edit. --PresN (talk) 18:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One month later, GA. --PresN (talk) 18:15, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Featured topic removal candidates
Featured topics/Final Fantasy titles has been put up for removal here. Zginder 2008-06-10T18:18Z (UTC)

List of Final Fantasy XI expansions
Currently, Rise of the Zilart, Chains of Promathia et al redirect to Final Fantasy XI. I do not think that these expansions are covered adequately as part of the parent article. They may not be enough content for each expansion to warrant a separate article, but how about a List of Final Fantasy XI expansions? You could include a link on each expansion to its soundtrack at Music of Final Fantasy XI, and also drill further down into the expansions' contents and reception.Enjoystory (talk) 22:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it's a good idea. I never liked how they're set up now, but having never played FFXI, there wasn't much I could do about it.  I'm not sure if it should be "List of FFXI Expansions" or just "FFXI Expansions", but your choice. --PresN(talk) 23:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoa, lets hold our horses for a moment. the Reason the expansion were merged is that they had very little information on their own. I think you should make a draft of this article first, to make sure it is viable on its own, and also to prevent the recreation of a large permanent stub article. If it can sustain itself, great, but we should make sure.Judgesurreal777 (talk) 01:05, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If anyone's interested, this is what the expansion article looked like before merge: --Mika1h (talk) 11:43, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Featured Music Topic
Current status of the future FT is as follows (before PresN->now)

--PresN (talk) 14:04, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


 * [[Image:The Thumbs-up position.jpg|30px]] Wow, that's impressive! I didn't actually realize the topic was that close to completion. Only 3 GAs and 2 FAs/FLs remaining to be done. Kariteh (talk) 15:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Incredible, amazing job PresN! I have been keeping up with your great work, and think that this topic Kariteh posted would be perfect minus the compilation albums (for now). I say that because there are still a few articles not in this topic, which I will post here for perusal;


 * Music of the Chocobo series
 * Voices of the Lifestream
 * The Black Mages
 * The Black Mages discography
 * Dear Friends -Music from Final Fantasy-
 * Project Majestic Mix: A Tribute to Nobuo Uematsu
 * Tour de Japon
 * Distant Worlds: Music from Final Fantasy

My thought is that the Chocobo music should replace the compilation albums for the initial FFMusic featured topic, and then include the compilation album along with all the these articles (many of which will probably be merged), so it will only be a handful. So once we do that supplimentary addition, we will have every FF music article in the Featured Topic. What an astounding achievement. That's my thought. PresN? Others? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

So, here's my thoughts on the matter.

Dear Friends -Music from Final Fantasy-,Tour de Japon,Distant Worlds: Music from Final Fantasy -> Final Fantasy Concerts or somesuch. Possibly merge Black mages and discography together (not sure). Which leaves us with


 * Music of the Chocobo series
 * Voices of the Lifestream
 * The Black Mages
 * Project Majestic Mix: A Tribute to Nobuo Uematsu
 * Final Fantasy Concerts

Now, that's 15+5=20 articles, so 4 of them need to be FA/L, of which one is. So, 7 to GA, plus 3 to FA. A bit to go, but not too bad. Or, my other thought, was a halfway point- Soundtracks of Final Fantasy. This would be

Which would include albums of the numbered games, 1-12, plus the albums which combined music from those games, and would not include albums from spin-offs, including X-2, Tactics, and Chocobos. I think that that's a gap-less definition of a topic, and would be a good marker point on the way to getting the rest of the topic up. It would be 13 articles, so 2 F*'s to go, and 3 GA's. This also ties into a question that Kariteh raised on the WP:VG talk page, about how most of the "music of" articles are more discographies, and thus incorrectly named. What are people's thoughts on all this? --PresN (talk) 18:13, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, if anyone could GAReview MoFF11, that'd be great, damn things been sitting there for over a month now. --PresN (talk) 20:45, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Never mind, someone got to it. Guess there's a benefit to getting into the "5 oldest GANs" box. --PresN (talk) 18:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available atWP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

FFVII Fam & the FFVII Template
I would like to bring up the matter of adding the game to the template. I'd go ahead and be bold and just add it, but there was a heavy debate before with User:FightingStreet, and I want to make sure everyone here is fine with such a move before I make it.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 17:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't see why not, I'm for it. --PresN (talk) 18:17, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I was originally against it, but seeing as the article has been improved tremendously and even attained GA status, I'll say it's ok to add it. The Prince (talk) 21:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright with that cleared, which row should it go on? The first as a game, or the second amongst the more side articles?--Kung Fu Man (talk) 00:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It's placement will be a little strange either way; the second row is just the Compilation games and the first one has the original game and the article explaining the Compilation. Personally I think it could go either way; the Famicon version is pretty much the same as the original and therefore the characters and later installments are all connected to it, but it's more of a "other game". Someone could always make a new section for it, but it may mor may not look good. WhiteArcticWolf(talk) 00:29, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Androgynous characters in Final Fantasy
FYI- Androgynous characters in Final Fantasy has been created by a new editor. The editor's edits look to be mostly in good faith, but still inexperienced. The interesting thing is the article is actually somewhat well sourced, but would probably serve better in a reception section of Common elements of Final Fantasy or in Common elements of Final Fantasy. Just a heads up as I think this editor might be a good contributor once they learn the ropes, so please keep WP:BITE in mind. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:17, 15 July 2008 (UTC))


 * I personally don't know if the person meant to do it in good faith; rather, they may have just been making fun of the fact that many characters, especially after their CGI transformation, look effeminate. The use of the word 'emo' makes it more clear; it's a slang word stereotype that ss actually just a type of music. It's well-sourced, but I just don't see the point. The editor, however, seems like he/she has potential. Once they learn the ropes, they'll probably be pretty good. Right now, we should focus on what to do with the new article; if it isn't tossed, I think reception is the best place for it because, like it or not, how feminine they are is more in the eye of the beholder in this case. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 15:34, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * In good faith? He rated the article as FA and top-importance... --Mika1h (talk) 15:41, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the information in the article is better placed in the Development or Reception sections of each relevant articles. &mdash; Blue. 16:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Regarding the article rating and importance, I'm sure they are not aware of our assessment processes and simply rated it how they thought it should be. They also re-rated Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep FA, for I'm sure the same reason. It's not the first time something like this has happened because editors don't fully understand Wikipedia processes. This version of Kingdom Hearts wasput up at FACbecause someone thought a great game deserved to be FA. Wikipedia gets new, inexperienced editors all the time, and I'd rather work with them than fight against them at AfD. (Guyinblack25 talk 17:16, 15 July 2008 (UTC))
 * It should definitely be merged, it looks like synthesis to me, and if we really want to get into the whole discussion of the Japanese male aesthetic, that would fit as a section in the Final Fantasy series article perhaps or the common themes article, but I am not convinced it should be on its own. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 23:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I support the merging. Although I wonder if it fits the notable and verifiable bill since it does include statements and receptions from reliable sources. Or is there a redundancy policy somewhere? &mdash; Blue. 09:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The topic is definitely notable, but I doubt the article will ever grow large enough to reach GA status. I think it should be merged into Common elements of Final Fantasy. Kariteh (talk) 10:31, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * We really should have a redundancy policy, someone start drafting that... Guy!! :) Judgesurreal777(talk) 14:32, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I merged it, it fits very nicely as a paragraph in character design. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Judgesurreal777 (talk • contribs) 15:31, July 17, 2008
 * FYI- Today the editor reverted the redirect. I don't think they understand the reason behind the merge. Someone may want to leave a note on their talk page or the article talk page explaining some of the applicable guidelines: WP:FICT, WP:AVOIDSPLIT, and to a lesser extent WP:UNDUEWEIGHT. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC))

May someone explain why I wasn't notified of this little discussion? I don't think plotting things behind people's back is very civil. Weirdo with a Beardo (talk) 15:09, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would you be notified? You are a 3 day old user who appears to have made a start article that can't sustain itself. However, if you are here to stay, welcome to Wikipedia! Your article was good, but is not notable enough to be on it's own, but is notable in the context of the Common elements of Final Fantasy article to which it was merged. No content was lost, so there shouldn't be much controversy over merging it there. In fact, I would expand the section a little to discuss the Japanese male aesthetic and its reception by people in the US, Europe, and elsewhere. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 16:54, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the article should have been given a merge tag when this discussion started. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 02:04, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

List of Final Fantasy compilation albums
List of Final Fantasy compilation albums has now been nominated for FLC. Please comment/criticize it! --PresN (talk) 21:43, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * A comment has been raised at FLC regarding tha lack of Japanese reviews of the albums. If anyone here could find any, I'd be most appreciative. --PresN (talk) 19:59, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Very nice. Just needs some brushing up. &mdash; Deckiller 17:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

The list has now been promoted!

Final Fantasy X needs references?
It is currently tagged, just thought I'd let people know, I'm not sure if it really needs them. If not, lets remove the tag.Judgesurreal777 (talk) 17:19, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * User:Kariteh said the "credits list needs references as the FFXIII article claims his first main FF as director is FFXIII". &mdash; Blue. 17:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It definitely doen't need more refs, as it currently has nearly 60 of them, which is plenty. When adding one fact tag, it's unnecessary to also add a refimprove tag to the entire article. If numerous fact tags had been spread across the the article, it would have been correctly placed, but in this context, it isn't. The Prince (talk) 08:42, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I placed the refimprove tag because no one notices or cares about the small fact tags otherwise. Kariteh (talk) 09:52, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The Final Fantasy X game credit roll says Toriyama is the event director. Clarified. &mdash; Blue. 18:56, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Kariteh (talk) 20:09, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Final Fantasy novels
I noticed in the List of Final Fantasy media there are a lot of Final Fantasy novels, but not one article. As most if not all are japanese that makes sense, but perhaps we could start an article on the all the novels, with the impossible to foresee title ofFinal Fantasy novels. Thoughts? Judgesurreal777 (talk) 02:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't this be a simple split of the novels and manga section of List of FF media (apart from the manga)? Also it would be difficult to write a good intro since there is (apparently) no history, reviews or sales figures that we can mention.Kariteh (talk) 08:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * So.... we basically have no content to build one with? Good to know. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Final Fantasy IV DS
Is it okay for the Final Fantasy IV article to have a plot section based on the Final Fantasy IV DS version rather than the original SNES one? I believe it should be based on the original, while Final Fantasy IV (Nintendo DS) should have its own (reduced) plot summary highlighting the differences it has and its new events. Kariteh (talk) 08:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, it should be based on what the original version was like. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 20:04, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I also do not at all like that the plot of FFIV has been expanded, and all the references to the original SNES release have been replaced with references from the newer games. I think that is inappropriate and should be undone.Judgesurreal777 (talk) 22:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be fine with it, if it wasn't for the fact that we have the DS game article separated out. If the game is in its own article, its plot should be too. --PresN (talk) 01:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * To note, not all SNES quotes are removed. Plus, I used DS and GBA quotes. The plot is expanded to cover the full story, though some elements introduced (Like Golbez realizing who Cecil when Tellah dies, or Golbez's full past) are not included.Fractyl (talk) 04:36, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Lightning
I have started this page just to give further info as it is released and then move it to the mainspace when it's done. Help would be appriciated. Gears of War  2 03:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I recommend expanding it to cover Final Fantasy XIII characters in general so it doesn't get merged or deleted.Wikipedia's current fiction notability guidelines are fairly strict, and all Final Fantasy characters with their own articles other than Aki Ross have appeared in multiple games. -- Gordon Ecker(talk) 04:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Gears of War 2 20:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Discography of Final Fantasy I and II GAN
Discography of Final Fantasy I and II is now nominated for GA, this time under the music section rather than the video game section. --PresN (talk) 20:18, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Discography of Final Fantasy VII is now nominated as well...maybe putting it under the Music section instead of video games was a mistake. --PresN (talk) 19:25, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Discography of Final Fantasy VII PR
I've gone and listed Discography of Final Fantasy VII at Peer Review, as a first step to trying to get it to FA. Please stop by and look at it if you have a minute, I've never had an FAC before and there aren't any "discography" FAs, so I'm just winging it here. --PresN (talk) 19:31, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Please? I have this sinking feeling I'm going to get massacred at FAC with the way it is right now.  Even if all you do is stop by and say that it's good, that'd boost my confidence a bit. --PresN (talk) 02:54, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's now at FAC. Fingers crossed- if this one can pass, then I can probably get a few more to the top. --PresN(talk) 17:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Please, please come on by and vote/discuss. The nomination as it stands is going to die through no votes- even if you oppose, I don't care, just give me something to work with here. (Not that I'd mind you supporting!) --PresN (talk) 04:19, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Discography of Final Fantasy XII Peer Review
Is here. This is the next one I'm pushing to FAC, assuming FF7 passes. Getting this to FA will move the (nominated) FF12 Good Topic to a Featured Topic like our FF8 one, and is one step closer to a Disc. of Final Fantasy FT. Please come by and comment on the article! --PresN (talk) 16:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Famitsu
Is there anyone on the Wikiproject that actually has a collection of the Jam mag Famitu? I've looked over some of the FF articles and most of the attribution are to 3rd party sources. I was just wondering b/c the magazine is frequently used in important Japanese game review sections (i.e., Final Fantasy), but is conspicuously absent from WP:VG/M. --Hydrokinetics12 (talk) 20:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you'll have a hard time finding anyone in possession of Famitsu magazines. They're only sold in Japan, and they're written in Japanese, which will be a problem as most editors on EnWiki can't read it. BTW, if the information you're referring to is from a reliable source, there really isn't any problem. The Prince (talk) 21:55, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Final Fantasy VII to GA status
Okay, I think this article is shaping up nicely, and is, IMO, very close to GA status. Are there any last-minute comments before the article gets sent to GAN? My primary concerns are: statements like FF7 being the best-selling FF title and the quote from GameFan are missing citations, the story section is still pretty long, and the prose may not be that great. The only problem is 1. I don't know where to locate such sources, 2. The story of FF7 is very complex, and cutting it even further may leave out essential details to understanding the plot, and 3. I'm terrible with prose, so someone else might have to take a look over. Thoughts? The Prince (talk) 22:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't worry too much about the Story section; the game is three discs long, and even games like Final Fantasy V have a pretty big Story section. It may be hard to find a good source that says specifically FFVII is the best-selling of the FF games, though IGN may help. If not, it was for sure a best-selling game, and I believe there are sources that say that. As for the GameFan quote...Eh, best to look on WP:VG/M and such for owners of the specific magazine. The quote probably comes from the case of the Greatest Hits version of FFVII (it does say that on the back, though I'm not sure if you're able to reference game cases...) Good luck! WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 22:50, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comments. To be honest, I don't think these issues are too big to prevent the article from becoming a GA. I'll send it to GAN, and if they pop up, I'll address them accordingly. The Prince (talk) 16:49, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I need some help here. If there is anyone who is in possession of these,, magazines, then let me know. The section "Design and inspirations" contains information from those magazines, and the GAN reviewer has listed some issues about it that need to be addressed. As I don't own any of those magazines, I won't be able address them, but if anyone does: please say so, so that we can get this article to GA status.The Prince (talk) 12:50, 23 September 2008 (UTC)