Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fire Service/Archive 1

Interest
I originally posted this on WikiProject Fire Protection, but will repost it here expressing interest in my newest WikiProject.

Fire Service
Is there any interest in expanding this Project to include more of the fire service. There are many articles which could fall under a Fire Service WikiProject. Any interest? Let me know!--Daysleeper47 21:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * List them in here. I'd love to see it.  SchuminWeb (Talk) 04:10, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


 * What I had in mind includes but is not limited to:
 * Famous Fires - includes both wildfires and structures
 * Cocoanut Grove fire
 * The Station nightclub fire
 * Cedar Fire
 * Fire Departments
 * Arlington County Fire Department
 * New York City Fire Department
 * Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service
 * Fire apparatus and related
 * Fireboat
 * Seagrave Fire Apparatus
 * Turntable ladder
 * Fire Service tools and terms
 * Backdraft
 * Hook ladder
 * K-tool


 * Some of these are already tagged as belonging to WikiProject Diaster Management, but that is clearly not entirely appropriate. This project could easily act as a cousin project (I am a member of that Project). Some things like the stub template already exist. Thoughts? --Daysleeper47 05:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I've been working on Backdraft for a while and am pretty unhappy with a lot of the changes since I started working on it...among other things, it's still a stub and many of the paragraphs are in an inappropriate "voice" or "tone". I don't have much time right now, but would love to see what people do with it. --catseyes 02:27, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Portal:Fire
This should be an integral part of the project, if it isn't already Escaper7 20:38, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding new articles
How do you link articles with other languages? I'd like to link the German article Brandschneise with firebreak. --Ssrkhrsechu 11:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I've been scanning for new articles for the project. Just added around 85, total article count is now 342 --Armadillo Process 08:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't believe that Incendiary wasn't part of the project. I've added it and one or two others.--catseyes 02:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Firefighting movies
I think that (non-documentary) movies with Firefighting as a theme should be in a separate sub-category of Category:Firefighting e.g. Category:Firefighting movies (fiction)) possibly Ladder 49 (film), Backdraft (film), City on Fire (1979 film), The Towering Inferno (film) -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 15:39, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Armadillo, I am only hesitant for two reasons. One, I hate categories that only have two or three items in them. I look at categories as being inclusive and somewhat broad, not exclusive. Secondly, I look at The Towering Inferno, Backdraft and Ladder 49 as being so important to the development of the public perception of the American firefighter that they belong in the more general category. That being said, this is a public project, don't let me stop you. --Daysleeper47 16:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That's why I asked - I'm not sure enough myself. I was tempted to make a "Fire movie" category a few days ago, but I was not going to put it under Category:Firefighting, then I found that in fact several of the movies already were in Category:Firefighting. I'll ponder about it for a while. -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge  17:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I am totally new to Wikipedia project talk so I have posted this request in the correct place. I am working on a colloraboratie project as well. Please take a look at The Firefighter Story to see if 1) you will reference this page, and 2) contribute to the story we are writing as a chapter contributor. Thanks, MindyBlock


 * This is just a thought, under Category:Films_by_topic there are several similar categories with only a few films listed, Category:Films about coal mining and Category:Films about chess for example. Firefighting has at least as many films as chess and coal mining.  If we want a broader category, look at Category:Rail transport in fiction for an example of what a Category:Firefighting in fiction might be modeled on. Dragomiloff 14:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I was unaware of this discussion when I created List of firefighting films as a page (not a category), but now that it exists I hope it addresses the need. Fjbfour 18:28, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Do we put TV Series and Animations into the firefighting films page? Because I see no page for those type of fire fighting shows.
 * Rasseru (talk) 04:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Categories
The fire department categories are somewhat complex and intertwined, I've been doing some obvious cleanups, such as double listing of a category in it;s parent and grandparent, when no benefit was had by doing that, and moving a few things around. There are some other things I would like to suggest. I have a manually created picture of the current structure listed at User:ArmadilloProcess

I would as a start suggest removing
 * Category:Loudoun County Fire-Rescue - only two articles
 * Category:Toronto fireboats - only two articles

I'm not sure Category:Rescue should be in Category:Firefighting it's related but has a lot of non-firefighting articles. It's already under Category:Emergency services anyway, so Firefighting is redundant. -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 04:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

FireService-stub
The stub template listed on the project page does not seem to work -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 07:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I fixed the template. I made it on the project page, but hadn't gotten around to moving it to its actual template page. --Daysleeper47 13:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

User box
The user box seems to be broken.

Epolk 18:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Article count
In the last week I've added quite a few emergency equipment makers, and fire fighting vehicles, mostly helicopters, added some categories, and searched Wiki for certain keywords to find existing articles that had not previously been in a firefighting category. Today I've gone through a number of relevant categories, and added articles to this project that were not previously tagged, but I did not add all articles in all scanned categories, since some are borderline. Article count this morning was 477, it's now up to 552. These categories were checked to ensure that any (appropriate) missing articeles are now included.


 * Category:Fire boats
 * Category:Fire brigades of the United Kingdom
 * Category:Fire departments in California
 * Category:Fire departments of Australia
 * Category:Fire departments of Canada
 * Category:Fire departments of France
 * Category:Fire departments of the United States
 * Category:Firefighting museums
 * Category:Hong Kong Fire Services Department
 * Category:Loudoun County Fire-Rescue
 * Category:New South Wales Rural Fire Service
 * Category:New York City Fire Department
 * Category:Toronto fireboats
 * Category:USDA Forest Service Fire
 * Category:Wildfires
 * Category:Bushfires in Australia
 * Category:Wildfires in the United States

--Armadillo Process 21:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure the point of several of these categories, especially Toronto fireboats and Loudoun County Fire-Rescue. I live about 20 miles from Loudoun and nothing about it warrants anything special like its own category. The only department which is developed enough material to warrant its own category, in my opinion of course, is FDNY. Anyone have thoughts on some of these? --Daysleeper47 00:17, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I also don't think Loudoun County needs its own category.Cmcnicoll 13:05, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

List of basic fire fighting topics
I prod tagged this for deletion as it seems pretty incomplete, anyone who wants to improve it, feel free to remove the tag. -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 01:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I concur. What is a Firefighting Scholar' anyway? Maybe I am one of those, a Gentleman and a Firefighting Scholar! --Daysleeper47 13:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Branddaskere
In Denmark a "branddasker" (literally "fire slapper") is a very common tool to fight minor fires in grass or fields and that alike. It functions by slapping the fires on the ground, which sucks out the oxygen causing the fire to be put out.

As I can see English Wikipedia does not have an article about this topic. So is it a tool used in USA - and in that case what is it named? Tried my dictionary without help.. --&#124;EPO&#124; 17:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I have never seen such a device in the United States, but feel free to add an article. No reason to exclude foreign devices. Thanks! --Daysleeper47 02:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't mind starting an article about it in English. But I wonder under what title I should write. Could of course call it a fire slapper and let it be moved if somebody discovers a real name for it..
 * Anyone dare to make a guess? --&#124;EPO&#124; 22:15, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I have no problem with branddasker, especially if the tool is only used in Europe. Start an article either way. --Daysleeper47 00:15, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that branddasker seems reasonable, although there may be an English name as I live in the UK and have occasionaly seen something similar at the edges of (reasonably) local forests, although to be fair I have no idea what use a giant fly swat is agains a forest fire.... Blood red sandman 00:19, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Surely it won't help much in a blazing forest fire. It is most suitable for minor fires on e.g. a harvested cornfield or grass areas, where the flames either are very small or just glows. If the burning area is pretty large you would normally take out the high pressure hose from the fire engine and/or water cannon from the tanker truck. Then this tool will only be used for supplement water.
 * I will make the article in a moment under the name branddasker. --&#124;EPO&#124; 15:43, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Surely it won't help much in a blazing forest fire. I must say I agree. Crazy that they're there. That's the state our government is currently in though; identify a problem, and throw a panic-induced 'solution' at it. Will be good to have the article. Blood red sandman 15:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I suppose the idea of placing them is to get a chance of stopping a small fire to turn into a huge fire. Kind of like the principles behind first aid. A fire extinguisher won't help you alot if your whole house is burning - but it can stop the burning curtain to ignite your gas cooker. --&#124;EPO&#124; 16:54, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * This looks pretty much the same as a Fire flapper (tool) used in the United States and Canada. The U.S. version has a rectangular rubber flap but the function is the same.  In wildland fire you'll see them widely used on prairie and grassland fires in the American Midwest, but not so much on big western fires where other tools are more suitable.  Also useful in fireline patrol on prescribed burns.  You don't really beat the flames with them, rather run along the edge of the flame and drag the flapper as you go, which extinguishes the flame and creates a firebreak.   Any opinions on whether to merge the two articles? Dragomiloff 14:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think they can safely be merged to create a more in depth article in small fire tools. Other thoughts? --Daysleeper47 19:25, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That could be a way to do it. Not a bad idea. Either way not best to have two seperate articles. --&#124;EPO&#124; 20:00, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This is still used in Tasmania, called a "Beater" mainly used for knocking down small spot fires while another firefighter brings up a hose line from the tanker. Rarely used now as it is a OH&S problem with manual handling and it causes lots of sparks, embers, bits of bark etc to become air-borne.  Probably best to merge the two articles, they are after all the same piece of equipment used in different ways. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jbtas (talk • contribs) 09:10, 9 May 2007 (UTC).

Articles have been merged to the fire slapper and listed for speedy deletion in order to merge histories. Please review the new article. I have corrected interwiki on da:, de: and pl: already. --|EPO| da: 20:09, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Removal of talk pages from Fire Project Category
I fail to understand why the pages were deliberately removed from a fire project category by the change to the template. Law enforcement Talk pages are in Category:B-Class Law enforcement articles and biographies are in Category:Biography articles of living people --ArmadilloFromHell
 * I agree. If you check out the offending editor's talk page, you will find some dialogue between he and I about that. I plan on adding it back. If you feel so inclined, please do it. I am pretty busy here at home with Christmas stuff so go on ahead if you have time. Merry Christmas, Daysleeper47 22:34, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If I have time I will, but unfortunately I'm working tonight, so if I have time I will. It sure would make maintenance easier. -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 23:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've raised the issue on his talk page as well. Hopefuly the weight of multiple members from the project will convince him of the error of his ways. Blood red sandman 23:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've also reverted the edit to the template. I pray to Awa we don't get an edit war over this... Blood red sandman 23:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being WP:Bold. While the category is back in place, I grabbed the count - which is now 572 articles and categories. -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 00:33, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree entirely on this revert and will do what needs to be done so that articles that have nothing to do with this project be removed from this submarine categoring. any articles that have not been edited by the members of the project or do not have anything to do with it will be stripped of their 'owned' by the FireService Project. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 22:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Although I haven't tagged every article, please provide examples of articles tagged by this project that do not relate to the Fire Service, its equipment, administration, notable fires/disasters, etc. I welcome your comments Captain.--Daysleeper47 22:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I have changed the wording from "is part of" to "is within the scope of". I hope this adresses your concerns about the template sounding like it 'owns' the article. Blood red sandman 23:30, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Subproject/Subcat categorization
I was thinking of redoing the WP:FS article template to include some additional information similar to what Template:WPMILHIST includes, maybe under the following subcategories:
 * Fire Departments
 * Fire Equipment
 * Fire Apparatus
 * Fire-related law or code

Please include more if you can think of any and provide thoughts on this in general! Thanks and Merry Christmas! --Daysleeper47 00:25, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't actually think of any more, at least not of the top of my head, but as an idea this sounds pretty good to me and has my support. Blood red sandman 23:31, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I like the idea also, but I also can't think of any other points at the moment. I can help automate the procedure when we decide to go ahead, since I have AWB scripts already set up for scanning the fire categories. -- Armadillo From Hell GateBridge 01:18, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The only other thing I could think of would be firefighting/rescue techniques and procedures such as Ventilation (firefighting) or Confined space rescue. Epolk 19:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)