Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Flag Template/Archive 1

Icon with text
Using the same format of such as Template:AUS, with both flag icon and text link, allows non-graphical readers to know what is being linked as well as supply a link to the subject matter. Would a captioned image with link be equally satisfactory? (SEWilco 04:11, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * No comments. Following original example, implemented as both image and text with both linked to country article, rather than only an image linked to country article. (SEWilco 05:00, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Country alias policy
I haven't found the Wikipedia policy on country names. I view the aliasing in this template as a convenience for editors. Wikipedia software or a bot could rename aliases to follow a standard. (SEWilco 19:15, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Flag template policies

 * Editor convenience: It is acceptable for the template to accept several names for the same country. (SEWilco)
 * Iconic purpose: Template's purpose as an iconic display requires short text labels. (SEWilco)

From Village pump (news)
Discussion intitally moved from Village pump (news)

This is the original discussion which introduced the country icon issues.

Flag template introduction
Various people including User:Earl Andrew and User:Aris Katsaris and others have created several dozen flag templates, such as Template:POL, Template:ITA, and so forth, and have been gradually introducing them in pages like European Parliament and List of cities by latitude and 2002 Winter Olympics and many other places.

I see a few problem with this:
 * These can be a bit cryptic (for instance, Austria is Template:AUT, and Australia is Template:AUS). This conflicts with the basic wiki idea that "anyone can edit any page", because in order to edit some pages, people will need to be familiar with these three-letter codes.
 * There are occasional conflicts with existing templates, for instance Template:IND (for India) is already taken for another purpose.
 * It's not clear what standard should be followed... one possibility is ISO 3166-1, another possibility is List of IOC country codes (these have major differences).  Again there are possibilities for confusion: the IOC code "CHI" is Chile, not China, the IOC code "SLO" is Slovenia not Slovakia, etc.

One suggestion would be to use fully-spelled out names like. Another suggestion from Earl Andrew would be to invent our own five-letter codes (but I think these would be non-standard, and "Austr" still isn't enough to distinguish Austria from Australia or Dominica from Dominican Republic.

Anyway, it might be good to get some wider input into this. What do you folks think? -- Curps 23:36, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Country codes

 * If you need a code for countries, why reinvent the wheel? Use the international standard 2- or 3- letter codes defined by ISO 3166. Gdr 21:37, 2005 Mar 29 (UTC)


 * Flag templates should not take over country code names. That would be like Template:Country_USA for a flag, when such a name should be for a template relevant to the country as an entity. Perhaps have "flag" someplace in the template name? Of course, such an aforementioned Country template probably should display the proper flag also&hellip; (SEWilco 06:15, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Non-nation entities
There are some cases where non-sovereign or non-state entities engage in international activities (eg, Scotland has its own sports teams, Puerto Rico has its own Olympic team, Taiwan competes as "Chinese Taipei"). If we wanted to add flags to the Francophonie article, we'd need flag templates for Quebec and French Community of Belgium. So neither ISO 3166-1 and List of IOC country codes really fill all the needs... and we might very well want to have flag templates for US state flags or Canadian province flags, for an article on election results for instance.

So, ideally, some general solution should be invented, and without requiring memorization of hundreds of cryptic codes.

Right now dozens of flag templates have already been created a bit haphazardly, so the reason for posting here was to try to gather consensus and ideas. -- Curps 12:44, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well, Please dont delete the template untill we get a vote here. I want to provide information in both articles regarding the man I dont want to copy paste material as if any change happens it should affect the other page instantly. --Cool Cat My Talk 12:55, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * Definitely (oops, I misspelt IMHO) the template names need to contain the word "flag" in some form, eg, template:Flag of FRA. To identify the country/state/place/thing I'd vote for the iso alpha-3 or alpha-2, since some country names are long and have various forms, at least in common use. Since the creators have aleady used the alpha-3 I'd say stick with that. The occasional obscurity of the alpha codes I would not consider to be a meaningful barrier to their use. Sharkford 21:50, 2005 Apr 1 (UTC)


 * Actually, the creators did not seem to have stuck with alpha-3 in a consistent way, which was part of the reason for bringing up the topic here. -- Curps 09:40, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

General country reference

 * I'll expose my ignorance: Why not  🇫🇷 FRA ? Or   ?  A Template:country would be for various forms of references to countries, perhaps for symbols, "more info" boxes, or variable text. (SEWilco 05:14, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC))


 * good idea with the general template. I would favor using ISO-Alpha3 because Alpha2 can change to quick and with Alpha3 we have more room for own inventions as there are more "reserved for own use codes". This codes should possibly used for maps as well. Full name is just to long and we could not use it on commons because people from non-english WPs, e.g. german people, will not use "Germany" but prefer "Deutschland". codes avoid language issues. I know 99% of the alpha2 codes if you wake me up from my deepest dreams, but I do not know nearly 2% of the alpha3 codes. We all will get used to it :-) One downside of alpha3, copyright? Tobias Conradi 12:44, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Meaning vs brevity

 * Keep "flag" out of it. They need to be as short as possible, I believe that is the point of the template. -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 03:04, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The main benefit of templates is the standardization they provide; brevity is a secondary benefit, which shouldn't be at the expense of clarity. There's no point in saving a few keystrokes of typing if it entails a much longer delay in manually looking up an obscure code; this actually loses time rather than saving it. -- Curps 09:40, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * No matter what we use, there's going to be an obscure code that will need to be looked up. The smaller the said code the better. -- [[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|20px]] Earl Andrew - talk 19:11, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I think Anglo-Saxon readers would have difficulty with .  I think "flag" is necessary to specify the purpose of the template (reference to a flag), while merely having a country name as a template does not make clear what aspect of the country is being referred to. Thus, a "country" template is a more general view of the "flag" problem: How to refer to something which is related to a specific country.  As flag presentation was the problem which was mentioned, that implies that a template for flags is of interest, possibly in addition to a more general solution for country references.  (SEWilco 10:15, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Help... ISO-like codes? Tags? Flag icons?
Please excuse my newbie questions:

What are these (please see below) and where can a complete list be found?

The three letter identifiers are not always an ISO country code.

(Edit this section, to see the wiki source code, such as 🇦🇺 🇦🇺 )

🇦🇺 🇦🇹 🇧🇪 🇨🇦 🇨🇳 🇩🇰 🇪🇬 🇫🇷 🇫🇯 🇩🇪 🇬🇷 🇮🇳 🇮🇹 🇯🇵 🇲🇽 🇲🇾 🇳🇱 🇳🇿 🇵🇦 🇵🇭 🇵🇹 🇪🇸 🇸🇪 🇹🇭 🇹🇼 🇻🇦

🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🇮🇪 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

🇭🇰 🇲🇴

🇲🇻 🇵🇼

Sometimes, this one has a gray box and dotted lines, and sometimes NOT... Why?

🇬🇺 Guam     Chuuk (or Truk Lagoon)   🇵🇫 Tahiti, French Polynesia

GeoFan49 06:38, 17 December 2006 (UTC) :: Puzzled....

Think I have just found a solution, with some testing here: User:GeoFan49/Flagtest

GeoFan49

Introducing Template:Flag
Well, trying Template:Flag. There is an assortment of file names for flags. Such as Image:Flag of Canada.svg (🇨🇦 Canada) while USA's seems to be Image:us flag large.png (🇺🇸 US) (SEWilco 20:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * Template:Flag aliasing test: 🇨🇦 Canada, 🇺🇸 US, 🇺🇸 USA, United States of America.  Only those countries presently work. (SEWilco 20:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * Two more flag references which work: Earth,  undefined .  The second one is for a null parameter. (  undefined ); I did not make a default (  undefined ), as I could not reference file.
 * There is a limit on subpages. Is there an incantation to extract part of a parameter, so if parameter 1 is USA, the "U" can be used in the template? (SEWilco 20:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * Should we move this out of Village Pump? (SEWilco 20:26, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * Perhaps, but where? -- Curps 09:40, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

ISO codes
I personally think thatwe should use the ISO codes, since there will be little confusion. Though there is obscure codes for countries (HR for Croatia, CS for Serbia and Montenegro, OT for Austria), we can always provide a list of these codes and make the minor edits when needed. Zscout370 01:35, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * ISO codes is being discussed in a section below. Basically: Yes, ISO codes make sense.  The intent is to allow editors to also use common names, but the template will find the proper name of the flag file.  The short text label next to the flag will be the ISO code because this is intended as a short icon.  There will also be a way to produce other labels, such as the Olympic country codes. (SEWilco 04:39, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Country aliases

 * Aliases are done by having one template for each country or alias (this is called a template array).
 * Alias templates follow the pattern country_alias_Name.
 * Contents of the country alias is the name of the country's Wikipedia page (ie, United States).
 * Alias templates for flags follow the pattern country_flag_alias_Name.
 * Contents of the country flag alias is the name of the country's flag image (ie, us or Us); the rest of the image file name is appended by country_flag: _flag_large.png.
 * Other types of aliases could be created with other template arrays, such as country_ISO_alias_Name. Note: alias should be last, otherwise similar names can occur for a country named "ISO".
 * ISO codes
 * avoid US based FIPS 10-4
 * some US FIPS FIPS 104-1 codes may need to be updated to current usage
 * for entities that have no code
 * make up our own in the reserved code space (ISO has one)
 * own codes have to be published as wikimedia-codes somewhere (wikibooks?)
 * coordinate with other country file names
 * maps
 * coat of arms
 * [please extend]
 * see also: commons:Commons_talk:Language_policy/Archive1

Technical issues

 * Anyone see a way to only need alias files for exceptions, rather than for every flag? (SEWilco 18:30, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * There is not way to use the alias files for more than only the alias. That is, to store information other than the one-line alias entry.  There is not a way to make a Template use part of a file or string. (SEWilco)
 * Separate aliases are used for the flag and country, as some flag files do not have same name as the country. (SEWilco)
 * Most countries have flag image files which follow a certain pattern. Some missing flags will be copied to new names. (SEWilco)


 * how to handle the approx 130 countries? not to mention subnational entities? templates with database? how to do this? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 10:49, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I mentioned the number of countries as being an issue, and that is why I have not already fully populated an Alias table. (SEWilco)
 * Separate Alias name spaces can be created, so FlagState|USA|MN would refer to separate Aliases for USA states. (SEWilco)
 * please no template FlagState, use Flag|US-MN, that's it.Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:32, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to find ways to detect when an Alias file is not needed, such as by discovering "Italy" files exist. There seems to be no way to do this, as a missing Alias template always appears as an undefined part of the template. (SEWilco)
 * Various people have proposed enhancements which would allow replacement of this Alias File hack. If a better technology appears, the template will be changed.  References to templates can be updated. (SEWilco 18:27, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Text display

 * allow different text displays, example in IOC context IOC codes might be needed.
 * use different templates (easier to handle than variables (?))
 * Template:FlagIcon Template:country_flagicon shows only the flag without text label.
 * Template:Flag Template:country_flag show flag with label.
 * Template:FlagISO Template:country_flagISO show flag with ISO label.
 * Template:FlagIOC Template:country_flagIOC use IOC labels (including a link to that country's Olympics page?)
 * use a variable "text display"

ISO codes copyright

 * an issue? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:18, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Use USA FIPS 104-1 American National Standard Codes for the Representation of Names of Countries, Dependencies, and Areas of Special Sovereignty for Information Interchange. (SEWilco 18:21, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC))

Nation Icon
Is this actually intended as a "nation icon", where the flag is actually just a symbol for the country? (SEWilco 06:56, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC))
 * If this is the case, try viewing this topic as "identification of a nation" and "display of nation link" (SEWilco)
 * The Flag template is now coded to call Template:Country with the action parameter flag. (SEWilco)
 * Display may differ based on context &mdash; some contexts may link to nation page, others to Olympic nation page. (SEWilco)

Taiwan vs Republic of China
During the update done by SEWilcoBot on the 26th of June, the distiction between TWN (which should appear as " Taiwan" but currently appears as "🇹🇼") and ROC (which should appear as " Republic of China" but currently appears as "") was blurred. The reason for this distiction is that users sometimes want to use "Taiwan" and sometimes want to use "Republic of China". Could you repair this? I'm having trouble tracing your template back. Thanks -Bill 4 July 2005 17:35 (UTC)
 * I see; references under various names got intermingled during setup of the edits. OK, I fixed it so references using Taiwan or TWN use that name (as "Common name"), while ROC references use Republic of China or ROC.  I changed TWN to use Taiwan reference, which then displays that name. (SEWilco 5 July 2005 07:53 (UTC))

This issue cropped up again with the recent updates. Country data Taiwan no longer re-directs to Country data Republic of China. --129.241.210.227 00:08, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I was puzzled about your post, because everything looked as Bill requested it above here. Then I saw you already changed it . --Ligulem 00:28, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops.
I actually stumbled across this page *after* standardizing the templates to the ISO codes... Well.

To summarize it briefly: For those countries that did not have this template at Template:ISO (ISO being the three-letter code of the country), I created the templates; and I resolved the issue (the only issue, actually) with Template:IND by agreeing with User:SPUI to change his instances of 🇮🇳 to for him. I hope I could help with that, even though I just stumbled upon this page... Nightstallion 19:50, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * No problem, we're still working on this template. There are several awkward issues due primarily to template limitations. (SEWilco 04:02, 24 May 2005 (UTC))


 * Okay. If I can be of any further help, just tell me. Nightstallion 06:16, 24 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm changing the underlying technology now, more soon. Oh, your above example doesn't make too much sense when 🇮🇳 shows the IND flag; looks to me like you mean SPUI had Template:IND for the subway system and he accepted your renaming.  Did you do all that manually or do you have a bot? (SEWilco 08:36, 25 May 2005 (UTC))


 * Corrected my post above. I actually did it manually. Nightstallion 11:03, 25 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, you encountered one problem with trying to take over template names as country aliases. I'm avoiding that by using "country_alias_" as a prefix for a template array.  But before you go populating another array we need to design things. (SEWilco 07:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC))


 * I created Template:Country as a general interface for such things. Now Flag is coded as   .  For ISO, it could be  }  or the template design might be changed to  } .  I have to test whether we could have an optional parameter so    would be a possibility. (SEWilco 07:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC))


 * I expect that few people will want to call Template:Country directly, and a number of shortcut aliases for various actions will exist. Template:Flag already exists (although a name change has been requested).  I just now created Template:ISO for ISO-related usage, for when we figure this out. (SEWilco 07:35, 26 May 2005 (UTC))


 * I assume an "ISO" reference should display differently than non-ISO usage. For example, although at present flag will show the USA flag for US, USA, or United States, it uses the specified label rather than a standardized one such as USA.  For ISO, the appropriate ISO label should be shown.  This probably should involve an "ISO alias" table, display the ISO label, but link to the country page.  For IOC, perhaps a link to a country's Olympic info would be wanted.  A related issue is that I need to add translation from country aliases to flag aliases; the USA flag is in a file named "Us" and that is not a suitable country label, but that should be easy to implement in the flag template. (SEWilco 07:47, 26 May 2005 (UTC))

ISO template
Template:ISO now creates a flag icon and text linked to the country's Wikipedia page. The only parameter given should be an ISO country code (see Usage in its Talk page). That parameter is also the label next to the flag. The template does not restrict country codes, they are simply defined as required to be ISO codes. (SEWilco 06:15, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC))


 * Should Template:ISO be defined as creating its present icon-and-text format, or should it have a more ambiguous or specific definition?  What is intent of usage? (SEWilco 06:21, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC))
 * Example:  :  (SEWilco 06:28, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC))
 * I see no ISO here. "Us" is not.Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * "USA" is the ISO country code for the United States of America. It is the invoked country code which should follow the standard, for referring to countries. (SEWilco 04:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC))


 * Could someone be ever so nice and make it work with UK as well as GB or GBR or whatever misnomer the ISO uses? Dmn / &#1332;&#1396;&#1398; 09:01, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't do this. It is not a misnomer, it is an ISO standard. You can go for ICANN-standard if you prefer that. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:23, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Right. Only the ISO country codes should be used with the ISO template.  The    has fewer usage restrictions. (SEWilco 04:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Taking the template name "ISO" is a bit presumptuous. There are a lot of ISO standards. ISO flag or ISO 3166-2 flag would be better names. Gdr 11:00, 2005 Jun 9 (UTC)
 * maybe "ISO 3166" is sufficient, if template can recognize the 5 possible formats. 1: AA, 123, AAA - 2: AA-... --- 3: AABB Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The template has no error checking. As long as the formats do not overlap they can all be used.  It is just a matter of defining each alias entry.  The only difference between the ISO flag coding and others, such as the IOC, is that each has its own aliasing namespace so the internal names don't collide.  It is trivial to create additional templates if separate namespaces are wanted for various flavors/formats.  But before flooding namespaces one should consider whether there is a need for many country codes; if the only usage will be one table listing all the country codes then populating the templates is an arguable exercise. (SEWilco 04:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC))


 * I wonder if something like that will work for other organizations, like the IOC? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 14:01, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Note  : WikiProject_Flag_Template.  Also note discussion at Talk:Olympic_Games. (SEWilco 18:33, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC))
 * flagIOC? are there special IOC flags?Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:31, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The IOC has its own country codes. List of IOC country codes (SEWilco 04:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC))
 * own codes yes, but own flags? the action is 'flag' the code-set 'IOC' ?Tobias Conradi (Talk) 15:47, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * "flagIOC" maps IOC country codes to the appropriate flag files separately from the country codes used by "flag" to avoid collisions between IOC codes and other abbreviations. (SEWilco 20:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC))


 * That's why I'm asking about best use of "ISO" before it becomes popular. My previous observations about the generality of a template named "country" apply.  Actually, I'll immediately change "ISO" so it requires a parameter which indicates the intended action ("ISO|flagISO"). (SEWilco 18:27, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC))
 * ISO|flagISO? why not ISO|flag? what other actions are possible?Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:23, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * After further reflection, I changed it to "ISO|flag". At the moment there are no other actions defined.  Adding more country-related actions is easy; I believe I also know an incantation which can redirect to non-country-oriented templates as well.  But is there a need at the moment to stress the template? (SEWilco 04:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Component states
It has been suggested that rather than creating new incantations, members of existing countries be referenced as components of the larger entity. For example, the American state Minnesota be addressed as USA-MN (MN is the official postal abbreviation). This will work within existing country subtemplates. It also avoids the naming complexity if more flavor templates were created, as component or members have an assortment of names: state, commonwealth, province, republic, etc. (SEWilco 06:42, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Alternate flags
It has been pointed out that some contexts require use of different flags for countries. (SEWilco 04:55, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Suggested flag modifier addresses:
 * 'Country_code'-'Modifier'
 * Country_code is the usual country identification code.
 * Modifier is an identification of the specific flag.
 * Examples:
 * USA-48: the 48-star flag of the United States.
 * Russia-SFSR: Flag of Russia while member of USSR.
 * Brazil-imperial: Imperial flag of Brazil.
 * Brazil-1889: The temporary flag of Brazil for 5 days in 1889.

Alternate flags technical issue
At present flag file names must end with _flag_large.png, as that happens to be the name used for most flags. This suffix is included within the templates, and the "flag alias" templates only contain the prefix; for the USA this is "us" to reference "us_flag_large.png". More flexibility is possible if the suffix is removed from the templates, so the "flag alias" templates will have to have to be edited to make this change. This is trivial to do by hand as there are presently few.


 * I changed the templates to require the full flag file name (ie, us_flag_large.png). The prefix Image: is added by the templates. (SEWilco 00:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Please Rename [[undefined|]]
(moved from project page - SEWilco 23:54, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC))

I strongly recommend that Template:Flag and your other two templates mentioned above be renamed because a number of users are confusing this with when tagging images. In other words, the page Template:Flag should actually redirect to Template:PD-flag. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:56, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Noted. I'm working on something which will take care of this. (SEWilco 04:45, 25 May 2005 (UTC))


 * Implemented generalization:  .  If shortcuts are wanted, perhaps flagicon so it is different than flag?  (SEWilco 05:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC))


 * Not that having a pile of garbage due to misuse is stopping people from misusing flag now: Image:Confederate.png has been showing garbage which the uploader apparently didn't fix, so why would doing something with flag matter? Aliasing flag to PD-flag wouldn't confirm that the uploader intended to label the flag image as PD, as perhaps the person was just trying to attach Category:Flag.  If templates could recognize missing parameters, flag could emit a reminder box when no parameter is given... (SEWilco 05:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Avoid using meta-templates
It looks like this entire scheme needs to be reviewed. I see templates calling templates calling templates, and it's ugly. Creating a better series of templates should have been trivial using a bot, and I don't see on-going maintenance as a problem. Read the above guideline and let's start getting out ideas. -- Netoholic @ 17:19, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Getting a new flag added?
For distinguishing WWII-Japan from other periods (i.e., the current governments), it would be useful to have a little flag icon for Image:Imperial japan.png. But I can't seem to get it to work using the flagicon template ( produces: Imperial japan). Help? I don't quite understand how this works. --Fastfission 22:10, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
 * To avoid confusion, including between various Japanese "empires" through history, also consider a name such as "Japan-Naval-1954" or "Japan-Naval", rather than "Imperial Japan". According to Flag of Japan, this flag was not an "Imperial Japan" flag, but rather a military flag and was re-adopted in 1954 as the Naval Ensign.  Note that "Japan-Naval" should always show the current flag for the Navy, while "Japan-Naval-1954" the flag adopted in 1954; at present the two are the same. (SEWilco 05:47, 3 August 2005 (UTC))
 * Two ways to create information for a flag are to either click on the red links and enter the proper information (one red link is a single character), or to use countryedit to show the needed information. I'll fill it in for "Japan-Naval" below (the present template has ISO and IOC areas, but those are not used for the Navy).  Hmm.  Japanese Navy redirects to the historical Imperial Navy but that can be expected to change soon.  (SEWilco 05:47, 3 August 2005 (UTC))


 * Many thanks. I just wanted it because for some purposes it makes sense to distinguish between the gov. of WWII Japan and Japan of today (i.e. in List of countries with nuclear weapons, which includes an entry for both). I know it is not strictly speaking only the flag of that government, but it is the one most people associate with it (and has some legitimate claims). --Fastfission 16:06, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
 * According to Flag of Japan, during WWII the Hinomaru was the country's flag. Using the military flag for non-military purposes is "not strictly speaking" correct, and likely to waste another editor's time correcting what you already know is not true.  (SEWilco 17:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC))

Smaller flags
See: Wikipedia_talk:Country_referencing_templates Bart l 20:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Template redirects
It seems to me this project should be using more template redirects. For example, I just changed Template:Country flag IOC alias USA, Template:Country flag ISO alias USA, and Template:Country flag alias USA to redirect to Template:Country flag alias United States, since they all have the same semantic meaning.

Also, could someone check my changes to Template:Country flagISO? I don't think I broke anything&mdash;can someone else confirm that? dbenbenn | talk 19:49, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Flags
Currently, many templates (for example those for Austria or the French dependencies) use older flags, while .svg flags already exist. Furthermore, Guadeloupe and Martinique templates currently use inofficial flags; the official flags are the same as France's. I really don't have a clue as to how to change that, though. ナイトスタリオン ✉ 09:35, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * You might try the tool. (The last two parameters are for the ISO and IOC countyry codes; "AUT" is the ISO code.)  (SEWilco 21:16, 23 October 2005 (UTC))


 * How exactly does that work? I'm afraid I really don't know too much about the more complicated parts about how the Flag Template currently works... Best I can do is compile a list of outdated flags still used in the template. [[Image:Flag of Austria.svg|15px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 10:07, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I just figured out I can actually edit the templates via "Template:country flag alias +++++". I'll get to work, then. [[Image:Flag of Austria.svg|15px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 11:12, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * You can put the above "countryedit" incantation in any edit page, hit Preview, and in the result there are Edit links. Often easiest if you open the Edit link in a new window/tab.  The ISO section will report the ISO abbreviation, which you can then put in the 2nd parameter field; you might have to look up the IOC abbreviation if it is not obvious.  Some flag image or talk pages already have relevant countryedit incantations, particularly some countries which have several names.  (SEWilco 16:53, 24 October 2005 (UTC))

Improve template design?
🇼🇫 WLF 🇼🇫 Wallis and Futuna

The first brings VGB as code and uses a flag different to the following two. The flag used by flag|WLF is not the VGB flag even if the code is like that. It seems as if the design of the templates could be improved. If WLF is passed as a param it should used directly as output. Showing VGB should not be possible. Maybe a lot of meta-templates are superfluoes then. Tobias Conradi &#91;&#91;User_talk:Tobias Conradi&#124;(Talk)]] 06:28, 15 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Showing VGB is possible if that is what is stored for the alias WLF. It looks like that is wrong, so do you want to fix it or want someone else to do it?  It is a French overseas collectivity, but it has its own flag so its own flag should be used.  (SEWilco 12:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC))
 * I would like to change the design. if WLF is the param than WLF should be shown. For the flag thing: I still miss an explanation why different flags are shown for WLF / why this "(bug?) feature" needs to exist. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 13:38, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The design produces a consistent result. Try several names for the United States.  I changed the WLF flag back to its own flag, although one editor noted that the French flag is the official flag.  If you don't want the label WLF, perhaps you should use flagicon or 🇼🇫 WLF .  (SEWilco 13:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC))


 * 🇼🇫 WLF: 🇼🇫 WLF
 * 🇼🇫 Wallis and Futuna: 🇼🇫 Wallis and Futuna


 * The official flag of Wallis and Futuna is the Flag of France. In my opinion, the standard template WLF should show the official flag. We could use WLF2 or WLFalt for people who want to use the inofficial flag. [[Image:Flag of Austria.svg|15px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 13:57, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Back to France, then. (SEWilco 14:06, 15 November 2005 (UTC))
 * Aye. Thanks. Same holds true for a number of other dependencies of France and Australia, but I've got them on my watchlist, anyway. ;) [[Image:Flag of Austria.svg|15px]] ナイトスタリオン ✉ 14:24, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * No. We need to be able to distinguish these French territories with their own flag from France proper, as with all other dependent territories with their own flags, unofficial or not.  Denelson83  02:37, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Problems with Template:Flagcountry
I've been using Template:Flagcountry for a while, and I think there are some problems with it. Here's the template:
 * [[Image:|25x15px|]] |

Basically there are four parts here:
 * 1)  country flag alias   - The image wikilink of the country's flag
 * 2)  25x15px  - The displayed size of the flag
 * 3)  country alias   - The wikilink of the country's article
 * 4)  country shortname alias }}  - The displayed name of the country

Obviously, for each country, there is a unique image wikilink to its flag, and a unique wiki-link to its article (plus maybe a few redirects), so it makes sense to implement them using templates. However, for the other two, the problems are: There have recently been some debate over what Template:Country shortname alias China should be. My point is, there is no unique answer! All of the above are acceptable displayed names.
 * 1) The users may want to use different sizes of the flag.
 * 2) The users may want to use different displayed names. For example, for the country People's Republic of China, the users may want to display any one of these names:
 * 3) China
 * 4) People's Republic of China
 * 5) China, People's Republic of
 * 6) China (PRC), etc....

So I propose we should have a template like this:
 * [[Image:||Flag of ]] |

So it can suit everybody's needs. I guess we can call it Template:Flagcountry size name, given that it's similar to Template:Flagcountry, but requires two inputs,  = size and  = name. Ther users can use the template to display something like: Chanheigeorge 00:20, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * [[Image:|25x15px|Flag of ]] |China -
 * [[Image:|20px|Flag of ]] |People's Republic of China -


 * Well, the purpose of the templates is to provide common information. The flag and name of country are stable.  There are possibilities for more flexibility.  One option is to use flagicon for the flag and whatever you want near it.  Another solution is to use the new template abilities; I could add "size" and "name" as optional parameters.  I don't know if expansionist modification would be better than a new template which uses the same database.  Incidentally, look at the Edit page for flagcountry.  (SEWilco 04:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC))


 * Sounds good! I recently faced the same problem on the List of flags page. For the none country flags, I have to include the link to the image, size and comment anyway. But for the countries (not implemented yet) I'll have no other option currently to display larger icons, except the one above. Bart l 11:21, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


 * 🇨🇳 china: 🇨🇳 china
 * 🇨🇳 china: 🇨🇳 china
 * 🇨🇳 china: 🇨🇳 china
 * 🇨🇳 China: 🇨🇳 China
 * 🇨🇳 China: 🇨🇳 China
 * 🇨🇳 China: 🇨🇳 China
 * 🇨🇳: 🇨🇳
 * 🇨🇳: 🇨🇳
 * — (SEWilco 13:16, 15 November 2005 (UTC))


 * Sorry that I'm not familiar with optional parameters, but is it possible to have both name and size? Chanheigeorge 01:41, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes. You can test it in a Sandbox or any Preview page.  (SEWilco 03:57, 16 November 2005 (UTC))

IOC/ISO code with link to country name
As of this writing, I have not been able to find a suitable template for displaying the IOC three-letter country code with a link to the country, instead of the full linked-to country name. So I inserted the necessary code into my own Template:Biathlon flagresult (Talk). --Wernher 23:31, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

country shortname alias xxx
I propose phasing out the templates country shortname alias xxx. Right now almost all of these templates equal xxx anyway, so I don't see why we need them. Using them in implementation merely adds another layer of editing, plus this means people can "edit" the displayed country names in a page without actually editing the page. Chanheigeorge 01:09, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * One reason they are needed is in your observation that "almost all" are the same; the exceptions is one reason. Also your phrasing "these templates equal xxx" suggests that you're referring to use of three-letter templates, but the information is also used by other template incantations, such as giving flag the name of a country rather than a three-letter country code.  (SEWilco 05:55, 20 November 2005 (UTC))


 * Incidentally, you may be confusing the template array country_shortname_alias_xxx with a template. This array is a data storage tool and not a template.  It also is considered temporary, until proposed data storage tools are created.  (SEWilco 05:55, 20 November 2005 (UTC))

NGOs and other Multinationals
Are there flag templates for international organisations such as the UN, EU, the Commonwealth, Nato and Red Cross? They would be useful for lists. --cj | talk 07:56, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Most of those aren't countries. If they are needed, create separate templates for such non-country symbols.  Perhaps they should be documented at the top of the Talk page for the organization's article.  (SEWilco 03:38, 28 November 2005 (UTC))

Avoid using meta-templates
The entire templating system around this project is in violation of the WP:AUM policy. The developers have confirmed that templates calling or within other templates cause extra processing. This policy has been reaffirmed by the Arbitrators as valid. The template namespace is not a general data repository. Please begin discussing transition plans towards use one-level templates to perform these functions. -- Netoholic @ 23:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)


 * no fear. WP:AUM is more than only server load. And even the server load issue is less an issue if the metatemplates are not edited. Maybe protect the metatemplates from editing as is said in WP:AUM -> Alternatives -> Protecting. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 22:57, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Problems ?
🇧🇭 BHR does not work, looks like this: 🇧🇭 BHR

🇮🇴 IOT does not work correct, still shows the old .png flag 🇮🇴 IOT

Adding the Canadian Red Ensign
I've noticed that the project is lacking a template page for the Canadian Red Ensign flag used by Canada in various roles before the modern maple leaf flag. Currently, there are two Red Ensign flags in use here, Image:redensign.png (more commonly used, but contrary to project goals) and Image:Canadian Red Ensign.svg (in accordance to project policy, from Commons). Some help in adding this flag would be appreciated. kelvSYC 08:01, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

issue with flag|
🇹🇹 Trinidad and Tobago brings TTO while 🇬🇧 United Kingdom brings UK

easier both should bring the Name or both the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code.

BTW how do I get the full name?

Tobias Conradi (Talk) 16:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The flag template doesn't do the name, you have to use the country template. for example  result in   . --Sherool (talk) 11:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

State vs civil flags
I've been working on cleaning out the old redundant png and gif (and even soem jpg) flags, updating the various alias templates as I go, but I've noticed some inconsistencies. Some countries have theyr state flag as the default one, while most have the civil flag. Case in point 🇸🇲 San Marino who's civil flag is actualy this:. Is this correct? I'm no flag buff, but my understanding is that only the Government and/or military tend to fly the state flag of a nation so we should be using the civil flag as default no? Or do some nations use the state flag as the de-facto standard for everyting? --Sherool (talk) 11:47, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Some, e.g. Venezuela, do. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 19:56, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well if there is no definitive rule I'll just asume the people "in the know" have made sure the right versions of the flags are used by now. I know I would find it wierd if the Norwegian state flag was used all over the place so I guess most such mistakes would have been weeded out by now, except we might not have a whole lot of editors from a microstate like San Marino for example so I figured I'd check. --Sherool (talk) 06:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Usage for Personal Nationality
There are many uses of flags attached to personal names, e.g. World_Series_of_Poker. In these cases people have frequently used the construct Steve Dannenmann to produce " Steve Dannenmann". Is there a way to produce the same effect using the templates that currently exist? Using the 'flagicon' template for the first part is feasable, except that the tooltip/alternate text would be 'United States' rather than 'American'. Is there a way to configure the tooltip? --Deadlock 12:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * should be US-American. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 12:24, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That doesn't actually answer the question. Deadlock 16:03, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Shorthand templates
What's the difference between the 🇸🇪, ,  and  series of shorthand templates? And isn't there one which gives only the flag? -- Jao 21:41, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, b is for basketball, f for football, h for ice hockey, and flagicon gets you just the flag. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) 17:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

United Arab Emirates
United Arab Emirates in short should be EAU (use by FIFA code),or commonly UAE. But none of it create flag. Matt86hk  talk  07:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * EAU is use by Panini. ISO-code is AE or ARE. All cannot create flagicon. Matt86hk  talk  07:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Same problem: Honduras (HON), Zambia (ZAM) Matt86hk  talk  14:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Using Diff't Image at Diff't Resolutions
The U.S. flag does not compress well to 20px or 22px. Instead of using the template I have manually replaced it a few times with a special 20px or 22px image of the flag that straightens its horizontal lines at such a small resolution. This would be a tedious process to do many times, not to mention highly inefficient. Would there be any way to automatically do this through the template? So that at the default 22px size the 22px image is loaded instead of the large image compressed to 22px?

Here's what I mean...

20 pixels: versus 22 pixels: versus 🇺🇸 – note that the latter, noticeably inferior image uses flagicon.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Uris 22:09, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * See also User talk:Uris /wangi 22:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Historical flags
I know a lot of people (on Olympics pages, for example) are quite picky about using historical flags. Could we make our flag templates use the #if syntax so that you could optionally specify a year, and choose an appropriate flag from it. This means that someone could, for the USA flag, put 🇺🇸 USA and the template could detect that the date is between 1912 and 1959 and therefore use the 48-state flag. I'd be willing to try to implement it if people think it's a good idea.Moszczynski 19:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * So basically, My thinking is it would look like this:

Formatting help...
I'd like to add a &nonbreakingspace; between the flag and the country name, but I'm apparently not smart enough which of the numerous sub-templates I have to edit in which way to make that happen... &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) 15:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

FIFA country codes
I was wondering if it would be a good idea to have flagFIFA templates for FIFA contry codes? Football (soccer) articles currently use templates such as GERf, GERf2, GERwf, GERwf2, etc. (see WikiProject Football/National teams/Referencing templates) and as editors won't always update all four at the same time, I think it'd be better if they all shared a template. Also, the football articles currently seem to use a mix of FIFA and ISO codes. (They will use 🇩🇪, for example.) --StuartBrady (Talk) 15:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Major code cleanup request
the current system for country and flag names templates are using an archane array system that is inefficient and may result in long list of included templates in an article (see InuYasha for example. This may be fixed by changing to an #switch construct in one template instead (example template: Country name alias), where it only need one template per type of resut wanted (full name, short name, image name etc...). This may also remove the need of grabbing the country name before grabbing the image name, as the image name may be grabbed directly from it's template. The major work needed is to compile the list of country names, and it's alternatives, you may start by using Country name alias wich is compiled from the data from ISO_3166-1, and will result in the name specified for the country on that page using one of the codes or the name of the country as parameter. When all this is done, all that need to be done, is to replacing the templates and get a bored admin to delete all obsolete templates lying around (a couple of hundred I think). → A z a  Toth 20:45, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds OK. When I created the current implementation it was expected to be a temporary solution which used the current technology, and replacement with better technology is expected.  The #switch implementation has several advantages.  Are there technical problems with a #switch with hundreds of entries?  Maybe Village Pump(technical) could check a sample.  All the countryedit references would become obsolete so would require cleanout.  (SEWilco 17:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC))


 * Don't do it. By turning it into one big #switch template you'll run into the Template limits pretty fast on pages (lists) that contain a few hundred flags. See some related debate on Template talk:Length conversion. So for the time beeing at least the lesser of two evils still seems to be the current multi template solution. --Sherool (talk) 07:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not surprised. I wonder how Jimbo's wiki data proposal is coming along.  (SEWilco 04:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC))


 * Actually, the specific "Template limits" above is a 2MB pre-include limit on the code (not the images). A test page with almost all country flags is presently "Pre-expand include size: 511749 bytes".  So if the template code grows about four times larger than it presently is, such a ridiculously full page will have trouble.  But few pages need all nations, much less their flags.  A "Group of 21" page would not be as close to the limit.  (SEWilco 07:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC))


 * Can you give examples of these lists? Many flags are 5KB or less and, even assuming all larger flags of 16KB, there would need to be about 128 flags for it to run into the limits. Would even List of flags run into problems here? Gallery of sovereign-state flags does not consist of templates, and List of flags too could be made into an image gallery, which I think would be more appropriate anyway. What lists would run into the template limits? —Centrx→talk &bull; 05:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It's not the size of the flag image, it's the total size of all transcluded text (the amount of data from other pages (templates) that must be loaded in order to render the page). On Wikipedia the limit is set to 2048000 bytes (2Mb) per Template limits. The current "metatemplate" system weigh in at about ~240 byte, meaning you can transclude it some 8500 times on the same page before you start running into trouble. However if you put the code for 128-ish flags in one template it will be in the 30Kb range (a liberal estimate, considering you need lots of extra parser function code to obtain the same functionality), meaning you can suddely only transclude the template ~66 times on any one page before you hit the limit, and that is asuming there is no other transclution going on, stub templates, infoboxes, cite templates, navigation boxes and what not all count towards the same limit as well. To see what happens try calling for example Length conversion (a 23Kb template) about 90 times in a sandbox somewhere. --Sherool (talk) 07:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

protect?
this seems like a fairly high-risk template.. should it be (semi)-protected? Mlm42 09:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

alignment of flagcountry references in tables?
This code: yields

which, at least on my browser (IE6), has the two instances of "United States" slightly misaligned.

I suspect that what is going on is that (a) the image's top is being aligned with the right-hand text's top, and that (b) the right-hand table entry is (because of the image) slightly taller than the left, and they're being aligned on either the middle or the bottom.

Is there any way to fix this? It makes tables with flagcountry entries look off kilter.

Thanks Jordan Brown 08:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Country flag alias Pakistan: Bordered or not?
Moved from user talk:Ligulem:

Greetings Ligulem

I notice that you've protected Country flag alias Pakistan. As soon as I realized something was wrong with the new file, I contacted the uploader and the file seems to be ok now. Would you mind updating so the file used becomes Image:Flag of Pakistan (bordered).svg instead? Regards. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 00:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I vaguely remember having seen some disagreement over using bordered flags in the past. What is the consensus? Should this change be made or not? As being the protecting admin, I will fullfill the request of Valentinian if there is consensus to do this (or lack of opposition). --Ligulem 09:44, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem seems to have been that these images were created in batches rather than all at once. Glancing at List of IOC country codes and ISO 3166-1, it seemed rather apparent to me that people have shifted to these images when they became available, so I have lately been updating a few "missing" entries from the list without any complaints. The most obvious cases missing were Pakistan, Bahrain and Qatar. These images are not intended for use in article space, but they are very useful in lists using the  feature where the flags of Japan, Cyprus etc. used to stick out without any form of bordered feature. Same applies to Pakistan due to the white stripe. Couldn't this be solved by simply using the   feature? Sure, but the lists often become a jumbled mess with one editor adding the border manually and another editor abstaining / forgetting. Examples with both solutions used in the same list are not pretty. People often forget that if a list of flags is composed of both bordered and non-bordered versions, flags to which a border is manually added should be sized 2px smaller than the other images since the border takes up 2x1 pixel by itself. I must admit to be a bit puzzled why this picture in particular needs protection compared to many other flags that are more controversial or compared to high-use material like the stub templates that are almost never protected. I have never seen any complaints when stub templates were upgraded to the bordered versions. Regards. Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 14:46, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Done --Ligulem 22:00, 15 December 2006 (UTC)