Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Flag Template/Archive 6

Former SSRs
How would I go about getting the flag icon for the Crimean ASSR (left) and Byelorussian SSR (right)?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Toreightyone (talk • contribs) 19:20, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Mauritania
Please update the Mauritania country data template. From to .Hariboneagle927 (talk) 13:45, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

Template:Country data unknown
Since a few day Template:Country data unknown is linking to the disambiguation page unknown. I have not a clue how to solve that as the link is in an autogenerated "/doc", created by Template:Country showdata. How can this link to "unknown" been solved? The Banner talk 17:32, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Guidelines for Country data
What are the guidelines (if there are any) for the notability a certain place should be to have its own Country data page? Thanks! Cran32 (talk) 01:24, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Template:Country data listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for Template:Country data to be moved to Template:Flag data. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 20:16, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Peterborough
Country data Peterborough links to the article on Peterborough, England but shows the flag of Peterborough, Ontario. Which of these is it supposed to represent? -- HarJIT (talk) 20:16, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Template:Shipboxflag
Greetings! I wasn't sure if anyone was going to see my note on Template talk:Shipboxflag or not, so I thought I would post it here. The proposed change looks to be simple enough, though given the protection status I can't actually implement it; however, assuming the idea is sound and people agree, I can create the code and test it in a sandbox. I would go ahead and proceed with my mockup, but it is clear in the template that links, alt text, and tooltips were explicitly left out, at least by the creator. Are these behaviors not wanted in the infobox icon image? (As a user I was kind of frustrated with none of them being available, as I could not determine by looking what the two images were of, but I may be in the minority in thinking that.)  C Thomas3   (talk) 23:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

Renaming "country data" templates to "flag data" templates
The discussion for which notice was given above has closed, albeit with very sparse participation. This serves as a notice and reminder of the intent to transition to this new naming convention. I believe that the old "country data" templates should still work as template redirects after templates are moved to the new name. Anyone more familiar with this template system who has any concerns, advice or who wants to help with this change please speak up now. Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 20:11, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Northern Ireland
I've opened a discussion at Talk:Flag of Northern Ireland and I'd be grateful if other editors would voice their views. st 170  e  12:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Western Union
Hi. Could someone please add File:Flag of the Western Union.svg for the Western Union, which existed between 1948 and 1954? - Ssolbergj (talk) 11:12, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

eSwatini/Swaziland
The country has been renamed and the articles eSwatini and Flag of eSwatini renamed in turn. Please can someone with the knowledge process the change on the country data template? Timrollpickering 23:52, 23 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Seconding. Since the title of the article Swaziland itself (and the article on the Flag of Swaziland) have had their page titles changed, Template:Country data Swaziland should be renamed to Template:Country data eSwatini to match the articles' titles (with the redirects of "Swaziland", "SWZ", "eSwatini", and "Eswatini" all needing to be listed on the template's documentation - as it stands only the first two are listed). Paintspot Infez (talk) 00:03, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

EU vs EUR
Notice that I have changed the EUR shortcut to point to Europe as a continent, whereas EU should be used when referring to the European Union as a political entity. — JFG talk 12:08, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

doesn't work
For some reason  doesn't work anymore properly in articles. Flag doesn't show up at all. But in the same time it works here. Russian Empire MarcusTraianus (talk) 15:45, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * , Your comment here is the only place in your contributions for today where I can see you've used it, and as you say, it works. Where is it not working? Links please. Cabayi (talk) 22:13, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Can you show me an example article where this flag stopped working? — JFG talk 22:33, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure. Conference at the Highest Court of the Russian Empire, Ivan Cherkasov, Alexey Vasilyevich Makarov, Cabinet of Ministers of the Russian Empire. Label Russian Empire shows, but flag doesn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcusTraianus (talk • contribs) 22:58, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I can see the flag fine on those pages. Maybe you simply need to purge your browser cache. — JFG talk 23:26, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I have the same problem viewing the flag in that template. Looking into edit histories, it appears this change to the flag image used in that country data template is behind it. Do not know why, but I cannot see the flag in the new image. Hope that helps. Yosemiter (talk) 00:41, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Although, it seems the templates just haven't automatically updated the image yet. If an edit is made to any of the pages, the new flag image will show (such as after this forced update). Yosemiter (talk) 00:58, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * True. If you just re-replace text of the template with the same text, then the flag appears. Strange thing. But the problem is solved. MarcusTraianus (talk) 01:23, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Czechia?
I'm writing about &#123;&#123;CZE&#125;&#125;. My understanding is that this series of templates should use the country's short name as given in ISO 3166-1, which is now Czechia. Can the template be updated accordingly? (It requires administrator powers, I gather.) Or am I mistaken about how this works? Q·L·1968 ☿ 16:41, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅, per ISO 3166-1 official update. Thanks for the note. — JFG talk 12:06, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Really? The article itself is Czech Republic. Why must these templates be different from the article's name? - J man708 (talk) 17:12, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * EDIT - Surely the big bold note at the top of Talk:Czech Republic tells you this is a bad idea? - J man708 (talk) 17:16, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Had not noticed this moratorium, thanks. Note that the short name change in flag templates is unrelated to any potential future decision about the article title. — JFG talk 19:33, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Please undo the change. The links throughout Wikipedia, have now been broken. GoodDay (talk) 18:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Seconding above comments, please revert the changes per the many discussions in Talk:Czech Republic. It also has broken many other links. Yosemiter (talk) 19:26, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't see how any links have been "broken". The CZE template now displays "Czechia" instead of "Czech Republic", and the link to the country article still works. The situation is similar to COG displaying "Congo", not "Republic of the Congo", and IRL displaying "Ireland", not "Republic of Ireland". There are 777 entity names whose short form is different from the long form, listed at . — JFG talk 19:33, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * In addition,  still yields 🇨🇿 Czech Republic, so nobody is forced to use the short name. — JFG talk 19:43, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * IOthers are broken though as, which has never been called Czechia men's national junior ice hockey team, so it should not be listed that way in medal tables such as 2018 World Junior Ice Hockey Championships, or in Ice hockey at the 2018 Winter Olympics – Men's tournament, just as examples. Not sure why, I am not a template expert, but these should not list Czechia as the team per WP:COMMONNAME of each national team. Yosemiter (talk) 19:45, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Sports teams should use the FlagIOC template, which follows the Olympic conventions, in which  still yields the full name: . — JFG talk 19:55, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Every national sports team is affected. And your statement contradicts WikiProject Flag Template where it is used for every instance that is not the Olympics. In otherwords, for every time the team appears in an international competition, which is the the majority of the time the national team plays, the name and link are broken or wrong. Again, I am not trying to change the rules, but the one small change affects thousands of articles. Yosemiter (talk) 20:03, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I see the problem and contradiction. Let me dig deeper. I fixed the hockey situation by creating an alias for the Czech team. That had been done for football since 2012. Will look at other sports, and the relevant templates and modules, to develop a generic solution. — JFG talk 20:06, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I looked into it too, it means using the "variant" parameter in every instance to make it display the name the team is known as in any listing. As none of the teams are called Czechia, even redirecting isn't enough. The hockey, football, korfball, etc, should all display "Czech Republic". Maybe a bot to add the variant parameter to every use of CZE would be of use. Yosemiter (talk) 20:12, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Working, please stand by. — JFG talk 20:26, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * The solution was to define aliases for each sport in the country data code, similarly to the case of Ireland. I have done it for footbally and ice hockey, it works well, including for men/women and junior/senior teams, see for example UEFA Euro 2000 which lists the national team as "Czech Republic", and Czech Republic men's national junior ice hockey team, which bolds its own name in team results. Will add the other sports shortly. — JFG talk 20:49, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

✅. I've added a lot of sports, hopefully all sports for which the Czech Republic has a national team, per. Let me know if anything is missing, or if you encounter other issues. — JFG talk 21:58, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Cheers JFG. - J man708 (talk) 23:54, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
 * This also affects Eurovision Song Contest-related articles. They are known as the Czech Republic in the network, and now all articles using the template now display as, which is a dead link. Can this be fixed? LexPro4 (talk) 05:49, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅. Fully fixed Eurovision song contest and friends. — JFG talk 22:04, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you! LexPro4 (talk) 22:07, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

The question of the appropriate short name in this case has been much discussed on Talk:Czech Republic, and the longstanding consensus there is that the most common English short-form is "Czech Republic".

I'd also suggest from a practical perspective that if the template default has to be overridden in the same way at nigh-on every instance of the template, then the template default is wrong. Kahastok talk 12:57, 31 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand that the traditional "Czech Republic" name is still widely used today in sports leagues, and it will probably take several years to fully switch. In other contexts, Czechia is gaining ground, as it is being actively pushed by the country's government since 2016. With my changes, Wikipedia can follow usage more precisely depending on context. If tomorrow the Czech football association decides to display their team name as "Czechia", we will just need to change a parameter in the football template. Note that for example, in the FIFA World Cup article series, there are footnotes stating that the Czech Republic's team was formerly competing under the "Czechoslovakia" name; they've been through this process already a couple decades ago. — JFG talk 22:11, 31 December 2018 (UTC)


 * Let us be clear on what is being said here. You are unilaterally - without consensus here or elsewhere - overruling a strong and repeatedly-expressed consensus in favour of "Czech Republic" found at appropriate pages such as Talk:Czech Republic.  In the circumstances, it would be appropriate for you to revert back to "Czech Republic", and - if you wish to see this change - gain consensus for it first. Kahastok talk 15:58, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree, the consensus is that Czech Republic is still the most WP:COMMONNAME and usage. WP follows the sources, not make a change in anticipation of the sources / common usage changing. Spike &#39;em (talk) 19:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

You should give back Czech Republic, when article Czech Republic was decided to remain with that name by Wikipedia Community. After this article will change, you should also change templates. This move is bad and should be reverted as varies on different matters. --ThecentreCZ (talk) 00:57, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi @all. In view of general opposition, I have reverted the move. Sorry about the inconvenience. — JFG talk 00:02, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Changes requested to many flag templates
Please see User_talk:Jonesey95 for a list of requested changes to flag templates that were modified in significant ways by one editor, often in error. I do not have the expertise to sort out the valid changes from the spurious ones. Help is welcome. If the discussion should be moved to this page, that is fine with me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:27, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * There is also a long list of edit requests at User:AnomieBOT/TPERTable. Any template editors with flag knowledge or willingness to read the main articles and look at sources are welcome to help. – Jonesey95 (talk) 01:12, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The list is of both fixes to the improper edits, as discussed on Jonesey95's talk page, and "normal requests" that I found opportunity to suggest as I was searching for the bad/unsourced templates--Havsjö (talk) 09:36, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

[The following section was moved here from User talk:Jonesey95 ]

The point is that there is a consensus as this is the sourced information on the "flag of X" articles on this very site for the different flags i try to change the template off (including the sources i link to in my reasons for change), the previous version is not the agreed upon situation I want to change because of my opinions, but the unsourced mass-edits by one man going against the information on the flag article (who has now even has his template editing license revoked because of this...) --Havsjö (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Please make a list of templates where you believe that has made inappropriate edits. I have seen (and reverted) a few of them, so I understand the basics of what you are talking about. I will take a look at each template's history. Some of your proposed edits have not corresponded with the information in the articles about that country's flag, which has cast doubt in my mind about your other proposed edits. I am sure that you have some valid requests, but since I am responsible for any edits that I implement, I feel an obligation to proceed carefully.


 * In the meantime, please be careful to avoid deleting other editors' contributions to talk pages. And you might consider having your own talk page set to archive, rather than deleting messages that other editors leave for you. – Jonesey95 (talk) 18:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

The templates I have seen so far (and made requests on) are: Template:Country data Australia Template:Country data Brazil Template:Country data China Template:Country data Empire of Japan Template:Country data France Template talk:Country data Netherlands Template:Country data Germany Template:Country data Italy Template:Country data Mongolia Template:Country data Nazi Germany Template:Country data Ireland Template:Country data Russia Template:Country data Russian Empire Template:Country data Portugal Template:Country data Spain Template:Country data South Africa Template:Country data United Kingdom Template:Country data Finland Template:Country data Weimar Republic Template:Country data West Germany Other than requesting reverts of Illegitimate Barrister's changes, I have only made these 4 minor requests (or rather "suggestions"), more than that: Other than these minor changes I have only request the removal of the unsourced colour variants and CIA factbook versions --Havsjö (talk) 18:29, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * not include the NSDAP party flag, but instead have the national flag on "Germany" template. Though I can see how this particular point could denied.
 * To make the disputed "1949" variant from Barrister named "gold" to make into an actual variant, in order to still preserve it in some way
 * to use the oppurtunity also add the common "state" version of the current german flag to an alias, as I noticed it was missing when doing the request
 * Link "qing" to the chinese qing dynasty flag as well as the year (like both "1866" and "empire" on Germany)
 * I added to your list above, based on your edit contribution history. Some of them may have already been edited to your satisfaction. In those cases, you are welcome to add  tags to those entries. I have posted a link to this discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Flag Template. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:33, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thought I should maybe just point out that the ones you added, like empire of japan and mongolia were kind of just "normal requests" separate from the whole barrister-edit thing though, but why not I guess :P--Havsjö (talk) 21:25, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarifying. They all looked like the same sort of duck to me (someone who doesn't really know flags, but who edits templates a lot), so I figured that I would include them in case you forgot them, or in case any flag project members wanted to comment on any of your proposals. – Jonesey95 (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have added some more links to the list I found as well--Havsjö (talk) 21:58, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm hesitant about implementing the requests. "This flag should not have been added" is not the same as "This flag is not used and it's safe to remove it". The requests need to show they're non-breaking. Cabayi (talk) 14:47, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

[end of moved section] I have moved the above discussion from my personal user talk page to this page, since the number of requests keeps growing, and they should be evaluated systematically. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Same concerns as Cabayi above, Category:Wikipedia template-protected edit requests is backlogged, but it is all flag changes - any template editors on this project or perhaps WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology that can help? Maybe:  ? —  xaosflux  Talk 19:18, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Reguests such as [Template_talk:Country_data_France#Template-protected_edit_request_on_7_January_2019 this one] are not sufficiently clear - see my comment there.  Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:41, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I've done the French one but it needed the evidence from "What links here" on each of the flag variants, plus the "What links here" from one other flag variant to show that the results were meaningful. The request also omitted to request the removal of the accompanying var variables. Cabayi (talk) 23:08, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
 * ah, I see, I thought I only needed to tell "exactly" that I wanted "exactly" X and Y removed, for example. Not all "background" code changes as well. I will be sure to included this--Havsjö (talk) 23:12, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay, so I took a long while, but I have put the exact code and for the suggested changes and I have also checked the usage of all the aliases up for removal, I fixed some manually, but noticed that they auto-revert to the default flag if the |year is invalid. Some sports pages even hade a |year for all flags on the page for the year the sports-event took place, even if they had no alias, and it works... They will auto correct to the correct flag and since the fake flags are just minor color variants of the current flag in 99% of the cases, otherwise I have fixed it manually. So the proper code is there for the exact change and nothing should be broken by it. Other than that, the sources for changes which is not just for removing fake flags is of course there and changes only reflect the current situation on countries/flags article.--Havsjö (talk) 01:12, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

Q:, , , Should the WFB flags be put up for deletion on commons as they're made redundant? Cabayi (talk) 17:01, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I guess that would be for the best, I cant really see any purpose they would serve. but I guess im a bit "partial" in this discussion!--Havsjö (talk) 17:08, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Files that are not used and are not expected to be used are typically nominated for deletion, I believe. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:15, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Using "Template:Country data..." values for sports organisations?
This is a genuine question, but should pages like Template:Country data International Shooting Sport Federation and Template:Country data Fédération Internationale de Natation exist? The latter has already had the image deleted because it's copyrighted, and I suspect this WAF template's image will shortly follow suit. Just want to know if this is acceptable or if I should start going the way of TFD. Primefac (talk) 12:32, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Singapore
What is going on with 🇸🇬 Singapore ? Hektor (talk) 18:41, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
 * and 🇲🇾 Malaysia...

Second Brazilian Republic
The Template:Country data Second Brazilian Republic is currently linking to the Fourth Brazilian Republic (1946–1964), what is wrong. Was suppose to link with the Second Brazilian Republic (pt) (1930 – 1937) that still doesn't exist in English. The right flag is the "Flag of Brazil (1889-1960).svg" Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 15:26, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

Problems with flags
🇦🇹 and 🇿🇦 are not working for me at the moment. Nigej (talk) 06:07, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem. Have you tried clearing your browser cache? — JFG talk 07:24, 10 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes. Worked a treat. Thanks. Nigej (talk) 07:44, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Papua New Guinea flagicon
The  for Papua New Guinea does not seem to work on any pages, including Comparison of alphabetic country codes, and ISO_3166-1, among others. I would fix it if I knew how, but you folks are better at that. Thank you. → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 12:15, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Extra leading spaces in some flag names
The flag names for Switzerland and Nepal seem to have extra leading spaces. This results in incorrect sorting if a list of nations is copied out of Wikipedia and sorted. Most have one leading space, but Switzerland has 2 and Nepal has 3. Can the extra leading spaces be removed? Greg Lovern (talk) 21:18, 12 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that at Template:Flag/core, . It seems to be a half-assed attempt at dealing with Nepal and Switzerland's narrower widths (hardly the only ones with aspect ratios different from the norm). That's best dealt with with a small table, as in flag+link. Guarapiranga (talk) 05:31, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Propose using Regional Indicator Symbol for flags to reduce HTML size
🇺🇸 - HTML 244 characters

🇺🇸 - HTML 591 characters

Savings: 347 characters

Some large flag-filled sports pages are making pages that are more than 2MB in HTML. Replacing flag icons with the flags in Regional Indicator Symbol will cut out hundreds of chararters er flag.

This can allow some sports pages that are mostly tables to grow another 10-20% or more before they hit Wikipedia's 2MB "expanded template" limit.

Recent problem pages include 2019–20 EuroLeague Regular Season and 2018-19 EuroLeague Regular Season. It's not just sports articles, Wildlife Photographer of the Year was affected before someone removed the flag icons entirely.

Adding these flags represented in Template:Country data United States and similar templates and making it the default flag alias will be a big help. Even adding it without making it the default will be a big help, as long as the templates that call "Country data..." templates have parameters added to expose the unicode version of the flag instead of the version.

The long-term solution is to eliminate the 2MB limit, but that's probably years away.

Because this is such a big change it should be discussed first. Murphy's Law no doubt applies. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  03:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It probably depends on how many browsers / operating systems / screen reader applications can correctly interpret "🇺🇸" as an American flag icon. Also, how are you getting those byte counts? I can't reproduce them. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:54, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Regarding interpretation, yes, that is a consideration. Even if the flag were interpreted as a funny-looking set of two letters that identified the country, that would be okay if the flag were used as an country- or region-identifier, rather than as the flag itself. What is a problem is if it is interpreted as a generic unknown character.
 * I got the byte counts by viewing this page in HTML, saving the HTML that corresponded to my use of huge to a text file, then doing the same with the HTML that corresponded to my use of flagicon. They came out to 244 characters and 591 characters in a character-counting tool.  I'm not sure if that tool counted characters or bytes, but either way the difference is at least 347 bytes.  On very long "sports tables" pages, you may have several hundred flags.  I figure the savings would be about 10% in 2019–20 EuroLeague Regular Season.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  15:35, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Another space and time saving option is to cut the flag cruft completely. See WP:FLAGS and don't forget the image policy: 'to inform and illustrate, not to decorate'. --Red King (talk) 17:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
 * WP:FLAGS, er, WP:FLAG, is now a disambiguation page. Did you mean Manual of Style/Icons aka MOS:FLAG? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidwr (talk • contribs) 17:30, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

The point of the flag template system is to display an image of a flag, it would defeat the purpose if flags no longer appeared for many readers. Also, using the flag images from Commons ensures the latest, correct version and design of flags are used. S.A. Julio (talk) 20:24, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

I am withdrawing this as some modern browsers on some modern operating systems in certain situations still show "letter pairs" instead of "flags" for the flags in Regional Indicator Symbol. This is unfortunate. See Flags at emojipedia.org. As of 2020-02-04 it says " Emoji flags are supported on all major platforms except Windows, which displays two-letter country codes instead of emoji flag images." Well, when Microsoft starts to support flags, then this can be revisited. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  20:50, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Edit template-protected - remove parameters no longer used


I'm trying to reduce the number of "high flag use" articles that wind up in Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded. A list of all articles in that category is. Most are sports-related lists.

Please remove the unused parameters link and alt from Template:Flag/core and Template:Flagcountry/core.

This will save 36 of bytes per invocation of flag for United States. I didn't test for other countries.

Compare:



🇺🇸 United States : Post‐expand include size: 444/2097152 bytes

Diff:

See for the diff as it applies to Template:Flag/core. For testing, use Template:Flag/sandbox which is the same as Template:Flag except it calls Flag/core/sandbox instead of Flag/core.

I didn't sandbox Template:Flagcountry/core but the logic is identical. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  19:07, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I believe that the blank link= and the blank alt= are intentional, per MOS/Accessibility. Your sandbox code links the image to the flag image, which is a change in functionality that should be discussed before implementation. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:55, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I was wondering why those were there.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  00:52, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Another idea for reducing impact of flags on Wikipedia's template limits
Flag icons on sports articles are causing many to hit Wikipedia's template limits (list as of earlier today).

It would help if 🇺🇸 could expand to
 * Flag of the United States.svg United States

quickly without expanding a bunch of intermediate templates.

Proposal: Have bot create a bunch of country-specific templates such as Template:Country data United States/currentflag, along with some surrounding "noinclude" code with a link to "ping the bot" so an editor could force the bot to re-generate a particular flag template on-demand.

The bot would run daily, checking dependencies like Template:Country data United States and Template:flagicon/core, then making any necessary changes. On most days, no dependencies would change so the bot would exit without any edits. Change Template:Flagicon to first check if Template:Country data /currentflag file exist and if it does, just use it directly. Only do the full template call if the flag does not exist. I expect that well over half of the flag icons in international-sports articles would result in this much smaller "template expansion size footprint" if we adopt this scheme.

The one obvious negative side effect would be that changes to the intermediate templates would not have immediate effect. This will surprise some editors. Edit-notices on those templates along with an "alert the bot" link that will cause the bot to re-run its daily task immediately for all affected templates can take care of this.

Thoughts? Other solutions to the general problem? davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  21:22, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Seems like a quite complex solution, especially with a bot needing to mirror all the changes. This system would also require a large number of subpages, many of which would also need to be template protection. If someone were to edit the subpage directly, then it would be out of sync with the main template. I think a better idea would be to convert all the flag templates to use Module:Flagg. This basically could bypass the need for flag templates to call the country data template through the core template. For example, if you look at the code, which displays the same as Flagicon, the post-expand include size is 181 bytes, compared to 552 for calling  . Pinging the module creator, , if you have any thoughts on this (though the user seems to be inactive recently). S.A. Julio (talk) 22:00, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I was unaware of that module. If there are no undesirable side-effects then yes, we should use it instead.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  22:08, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Military flag size standardization
I noticed that there are two different flag sizes for templates:naval and marines, which standardize flag size as 23x20 px and templates:army, air force, and space force, which standardize flag size to 23x17 px. I have no clue which is the optimal size, but considering they are usually in the same infoboxes, I figured it would make sense to standardize them. In essence, I am here to ask, and gain consensus, on if 23x17 or 23x20 is the preferred size.Garuda28 (talk) 14:26, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Is there any reason NOT to migrate Template:flagicon to use modules?
In the discussion above, mentioned Module:Flagg.

It's been around since 2015, so I assume there was a good reason NOT to use it back then. That reason could've just been that everyone was too busy or that there was no pressing need at the time. Or it might have been something serious.

Is there any good reason today to not to migrate flag templates to call that module? I would want someone familiar with modules to review the code to make sure it's solid before we do this. Preferably several "someones" reviewing the code independently. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  22:14, 21 February 2020 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 18:52, 15 June 2020 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 20:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 15:00, 19 June 2020 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 03:28, 12 June 2020 (UTC) PAGE ]]) 17:54, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree the current system is a bit complex, unwieldy and outdated. The Olympic flag templates have already been converted to use a module. The only thing I notice in the documentation of Module:Flagg is that it says normal flag templates ... are probably faster because they only do two transclusions without invoking Lua. I'm not familiar enough with modules to know if there is a considerable difference, including for pages with a high number of invocations. But the module allows for a lot of customization, every template in Category:Flag template system could probably be converted without too much difficulty (though a large amount of testing is probably needed to prevent any errors being introduced). For example, replacing flagicon with  would achieve the same output, and the post-expand include size is reduced from 552 to 288 bytes for the invocation of the USA flagicon. Last year I did make a change to some of the core flag templates to allow for a better way to pass the size for flags with abnormal proportions, for example see Template:Country data Switzerland. This change is not supported currently by the module, and would need to be fixed. S.A. Julio (talk) 22:42, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * If Template:flagicon becomes a wrapper template for Module:Flagg, it can use special cases for Switzerland to use the old code. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  22:49, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * In the spirit of "going slow" we should consider changing Template:Flagicon so it it was surrounded with some "if there is only one parameter and it's not Switzerland or Vatican City then call the module otherwise do what you normally do." We would need to test this for correctness and if it helped or hurt the effort to reduce template-expansion size.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  22:55, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * It probably would be better for the functionality to be added to the module from the start, instead of using the old code (and thus increasing the post-expand include size) for Category:Country data templates with distinct default size. S.A. Julio (talk) 23:02, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The main reason I suspected the module would be slower is that it still uses data from the existing country data templates using  and string parsing, which doesn't seem ideal. If some or all of the main flag templates are changed to use the module, moving the data itself over to Lua would probably be a good idea performance-wise, if only because Scribunto's   would remove the need to reload a data module every time it is used on the same page. I don't know how the module currently compares to the "normal" templates, though; it might well do as good as them as is.
 * A quick test using the edit preview's parser profiling data seems to suggest the module is slower than Flag but faster than Flagicon, and reduces the expansion size and depth greatly in both cases (as was mentioned above). It does show a Lua memory usage of about 1 MB on a test page of 10 flags (the limit being 50 MB), which might be a possible new issue to take into account before changing the templates, given some articles use hundreds of flag templates. SiBr4 (talk ) 16:19, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the subpages linked from Module:Sandbox/Ahecht/flag. If a BRFA were approved to generate those for all the country data templates, would that be a useful format for an updated version of Module:Flagg? --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * Looks good. I could make a sandbox version of Flagg using the current format for specific improvements and to compare performances. Some thoughts for now:
 * The grouping of parameters based on key names with hyphens is a nice idea. I don't think it's helpful in some cases (for example Canada's "1867-official"), but the flag module can be made to treat hyphenated keys and nested tables equally. Regarding the grouping, the default value is better placed at the top of each table rather than the bottom.
 * Keys or values with parser functions will be tricky to implement in Lua form. I see your JS has a function to handle variant-based #switches, but there's a few dozens of templates using #ifeq, #if and possibly others based on various parameters. This obviously doesn't have to be implemented into the automated conversion, since that's a one-time thing and edge cases can be corrected manually afterwards. As for fields containing parameters in triple braces (mainly link aliases for sports), the value could be changed to some kind of format string to be fed to, but it's probably easier for everyone to keep the value as is and use string replacement in Flagg to fill in the values for  and.
 * The pass-through parameters can be removed, or (for  ) replaced with the default value if there is one.
 * and its variant equivalents could be a Boolean false instead of an empty string for clarity. I've also noticed the border parameters for Poland aren't separated properly because the template has them on the same line as the corresponding flag aliases; other templates might have the same problem.
 * The numbered keys (,  and  ) are specific to the automatic documentation through Country showdata. If these are kept, it would be useful to convert them to lists (e.g.  ), though ideally they wouldn't be included with the country data itself. A Lua version of Country showdata could simply be called from the documentation page (with the lists of redirects and related templates there) intead of being integrated with the main data template and sharing its parameters. Unlike a template, it could also directly get a list of the defined variants, although two reasons I can think of to keep some sort of control over the list are omitting variants that shouldn't be shown (e.g. deprecated ones) and possibly specifying the order they are to be listed in.
 * I'm also curious why your test modules use a nested outer table of the form  – is it to support having multiple entities on the same page as discussed below? I've been thinking on whether combining some of the smaller templates to reduce the total number of pages would make things easier. It's probably doable if entries in   can point to specific data tables on a page, or even specific variants (which would allow historical countries like  to be merged with the current country using different link aliases), but might also only complicate the whole system further. SiBr4  (talk ) 17:51, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * In reply to your bullets:
 * Subkeys are now sorted alphabetically, which should place  on top.
 * The only other parser function call I was tempted to replace was, which appears frequently, but I wasn't sure exactly what it's function was. Beyond that, I think any parser functions could be dealt with manually or detected and dealt with in Lua (worst case, they could be detected and then just those keys/values would sent to  ).
 * Pass-through parameters (e.g. anything of the form ) are now excluded.
 * Blank values now return false. The script always assumes that there is one parameter per line, because otherwise it would have to have a way of parsing parameters and parser functions to tell which pipes actually are the start of a new parameter. I searched for "svg | " and only found it in 7 templates, which I have corrected manually. Any other templates trying to put multiple parameters on a single line would likewide need manual correction.
 * Any parameters between  tags, which is mainly the numbered keys, are now excluded.
 * I put the outer country table with the idea that, as you said, either there could be one master module for all countries (which would probably be unnecessarily large) or for potentially combining templates such as Country data Kingdom of Hungary, Country data Kingdom of Hungary (1000–1301), Country data Kingdom of Hungary (1301–1526), Country data Kingdom of Hungary (1867–1918), Country data Kingdom of Hungary (1920–1946), and Country data Kingdom of Hungary (Habsburg) into the "Hungary" module. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|TALK
 * I don't think alphabetizing all keys is an improvement, as they are currently often in a logical order; only #default should be moved back to the top (e.g., when populating, check if   exists and add it before looping over the other params).
 * These ifeqs seem to have been added by to change the link alias for ruA without affecting it for ru, placing the ruA alias in a throwaway   parameter in the latter case. I think the best solution is to give ruA a separate altvar and implement some sort of fallback in the module so it can still share other aliases with  . For the data module this means changing the key to something like  . SiBr4  (talk ) 21:40, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. #default moved to top without alphabetizing, and some #ifeq statements parsed.
 * ifeqs like  are parsed to , so the rugby union ones are parsed to   per your suggestion.
 * Note the #ifeq parsing in Module:Sandbox/Ahecht/flag/United Kingdom for . --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK
 * I've been playing around with lua module replacements for some of the more common flag templates on pages that are exceeding the limit. I created Module:Flag as a front-end for Module:Flagg, to allow for more widespread testing of these modules before flipping the switch for tens of thousands of pages all at once. I've implemented, , , and on several pages and templates without issue and without running into the Lua memory limit.  The module is also substable, so I've taken advantage of that on several pages to convert the template calls to static images.
 * I agree with that long term, converting the entire country data system over to a lua database would be preferable. It should be easy enough to do initially with a one-time bot run, but the challenge would be to get editors to accept the new format for updates. We were able to do it successfully for gridiron football teams a couple of years ago at Module:Gridiron color/data, so it's not insurmountable. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK
 * Great, it would definitely be useful to have the expand size reduced. One thing I did notice though is that the custom size parameter (for example in Template:Country data New Caledonia, Template:Country data Nepal, etc.) still needs to be supported by Module:Flagg. While  currently outputs 🇳🇨, the code   outputs . I also agree, it would be great to have the entire flag template system converted to Lua. It would be a more efficient method, and the data could be well-structured. Unfortunately I'm not much of a help when it comes to Lua, though if this were to be done I'd be glad to assist in all other aspects of the conversion. For such a system, would each country have its own module subpage? While all the modern countries would need to be protected, it would be beneficial to still allow editors without such permissions to create/edit data for smaller/older regions. S.A. Julio (talk) 05:12, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I could easily have a bot run offline to create a single Lua data file and then post it manually, but publishing 5,000+ separate module subpages would definitely require a BRFA. See Module:Sandbox/Ahecht/flag/United_States and Module:Sandbox/Ahecht/flag/redirects for a proof of concept. --Ahecht ([[User talk:Ahecht|<span style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:-.3em;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK

There is now a sandbox of Flagg that uses 's data modules (as well as one I created for manual testing) and that I've gotten to work in the few cases I've tested so far. In a quick comparison with the current module through the parser profiling data on the list of US flags in my sandbox, all values go down by varying amounts, including a further reduction of the post-expand include size by about a third. This is probably not very representative, though, since it only uses a single country module and thus takes advantage of mw.loadData only having to load it once. When using several different countries, the differences are smaller, and Lua memory usage is even slightly higher for the sandbox version. <span title="User:SiBr₄">SiBr4 (<span title="User talk:SiBr₄">talk ) 12:51, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Some of the above comments seem to suggest wanting to move "country data" used by the current flag templating system from data stored and queried in wikitext-based templates to similar tables stored in Lua-based Scribunto modules. The consideration to use  is not without merit, however, I would highly recommend against moving "country data" from local wikitext-based templates to local Lua-based Scribunto modules. One really big issue with current flag templating system is that it is basically an English Wikipedia database (albeit somewhat makeshift in its design or lack thereof). To that end, despite much of its data being highly useful and applicable across multiple countries and languages, this "country data" database is accessible from (and must be maintained at) English Wikipedia alone. We should think bigger. This data should be internationalized, localized (e.g., country names, etc.) and shared across WMF wikis and not just English Wikipedia. To accomplish this, I recommend moving to a global WMF database such as Wikidata or if that cannot support such, consider   and Tabular Data. Tabular Data means converting the "country data" to JSON and storing and querying it from Commons, the same place where most of the flag images are stored. It also means it can be localized for other languages and used from other WMF wikis allowing the porting of templates and modules to other WMF wikis. To accomplish such a maneuver, I recommend devising a plan to move all the flag templating interfaces to Lua Scribunto modules (it seems like that is already well on its way) but for now keep them querying "country data" from the existing wikitext-based templating system (using the likes of ). Once you have everything fetching data via a single interface like Module:Flagg (or Module:CountryData or similar so that nothing else attempts to use local wikitext-base "country data" directly), then change it to support querying Wikidata or Commons tabular data first and fallback to its current wiki-local template-based database. This will allow for a transition of local "country data" from just English Wikipedia to a global WMF solution usable from any of its wikis. Designing a replacement for the current "country data" is key. I really like Wikidata and I believe the flag data really could easily be stored there (if much of it isn't already). That said, the existing "country data" query interface seems potentially incompatible with a migration to Wikidata. However, I do believe it is possible. We could attempt to map "country data" country names to Wikidata item entity IDs and query that way, etc. It is likely this mapping could use Wikidata labels and aliases (or possibly sitelinks). The point is moving to a single "country data" interface which allows us to eventually improve the database implementation is a good thing, however, just moving from one local database format (wikitext templates) to another local database format (Lua Scribunto modules), even if it is a better format, is likely not the best way to go. —Uzume (talk) 13:14, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Mississippi Magnolia Flag


Could someone please add the Magnolia Flag to the Template? Currently Mississippi has no flag where this template is used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Toadspike (talk • contribs) 04:08, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That's because the state has no official flag. The magnolia flag needs to be adopted by the legislature. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:42, 6 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Why does Wikipedia need to wait for the legislature to adopt it? It seems to me that a flag which is likely to be the new official flag (given 72% vote in the referendum) is preferable to a blank placeholder in the template. skeptical scientist (talk) 03:24, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * It's for the same reason we shouldn't have a redirect --> Joe Biden until he is inaugurated (we do, but it's not worth going to WP:RFD over, that would be POINTY).  Heaven forbid, but there could be a cataclysmic disaster that ends the world as we know it before either the Mississippi legislature meets or Joe Biden is inaugurated President of the United States.  It's also why we don't have articles about undiscovered atoms, even though we are nearly 100% sure the next few on the list can be made and, barring an "end of the world as we know it event," will be made in the next decade or two.  As a more practical example, we don't make articles about tropical systems or even sections about them in "tropical cyclones by year" pages until the cyclone is "officially declared."
 * That said, it is right and proper that this flag and its current status and likely future status be mentioned in articles about the Mississippi State Flag. But it shouldn't be put into the flag template system until it's officially declared, and maybe not even until the date it becomes official (that is a debate worth having, start a new section if you want to start that debate now).  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  14:55, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Is there a list of pages that use non-module version which are approaching WP:PEIS limit
Is there a list of pages that are approaching the WP:PEIS limit that haven't converted over to the new module-based flagg system?

Can one be easily generated?

I just did a "global replace" of flag and flagcountry in List of shipwrecks in 1815 because it crossed the limit earlier today. It would've been nice if this had been done preemptively before it "broke the wiki" (see this new discussion on WikiProject Shipwrecks (permalink)). davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  15:05, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit template-protected 7 December 2020
Hi! The Country data Azerbaijan is edit-protected at the moment. Currently,  shows the flag of Azerbaijan, rather than the, as seen here. I believe it is related to the country data template. Seems like there is no code for Air force, and the template adds the default flag because of it. There is one for Army and Navy, but not Air force. --► Sincerely:  Sola Virum  17:00, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Flag of the Bourbon Restoration
I posted to following to WikiProject France but no one responded and the situation hasn't changed. I've copied it here so that, hopefully, somebody can lend some clarity on what flag is correct.


 * The flag presented on the Bourbon Restoration article is File:Royal flag of France during the Bourbon Restoration.svg, but the flag listed on Template:Country data Bourbon Restoration is File:Flag of the Kingdom of France (1814-1830).svg. However, that file's page states it is a naval ensign, and the Flag of France article says it was a naval ensign and national flag. Then we have the File:Royal flag of France during the Bourbon Restoration.svg which says it is the "Alternative Flag of Kingdom of France". Which of these flags is correct? 5225C (talk &bull; contributions) 05:37, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

As best I can tell, the blank white flag was the national flag and the one with the crest was the royal flag (state ensign?). Regardless, the template isn't consistent with the article. 5225C (talk • contributions) 07:54, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

==Discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous) § Flags for Bulgaria and South Korea at the Olympics== You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous) § Flags for Bulgaria and South Korea at the Olympics. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 21:06, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Saint Lucian flags
Hello! Can you add the right Saint Lucian flags from 1875 until 1967. The flag variant from 1875 should have the flag  and the 1939 variant should have the flag. Yours sincerely, Sondre --80.212.169.236 (talk) 12:39, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅, although the task would have been made easier by the addition of the  to the request and the correct name for the 1939 flag. Mjroots (talk) 10:04, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Romanian flags
Hello! Can you correct the three Romanian flags from 1948 until 1989. The first one should be. The second one should be. And the last one should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 18:22, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Flags of Iran
Hello! Can you correct the flags of Iran the two state variants. The first one which is the 1925 variant should be. And the second flag which is the 1964 variant should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 18:24, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Template:Infobox racing driver has an RFC
Template:Infobox racing driver has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Dennis Bratland (talk) 18:33, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Flags of Bahamas
Hello! Can you correct the 1869 variant for the flag template of Bahamas that should be. And can you add the 1964 variant to the flag template of Bahamas that should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Bulgarian flags
Hello! Can you add the 1946 variant in the flag template of Bulgaria that should be  and the 1948 variant should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 20:33, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Saint Lucian flags
Hello! Can you add the right flag for the 1967 variant for Saint Lucia. That should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 09:29, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Comoros flags
Hello! Can you add the 1963 variant for the flag template of Comoros?. The flag should be  they also used that flag from 1975 to 1976. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 10:01, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Dominica flags
Hello! Can you add the right variant on the 1955 variant on the Dominica flag template. And can you add the variant for 1988 that should be. And can you correct the 1981 variant to. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 13:18, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Antigua and Barbuda flag
Hello! Can you add the 1962 variant for Antigua and Barbuda flag template. That is. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 15:35, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Suriname flag
Hello! Can you add the 1975 variant to the flag template of Surinam that should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 15:39, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Peru
Hello! Can you add the 1822 variant of Peru. That should be. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 20:47, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Sandbox
Hello! How can i make sandbox templates without being registered?. That will make it much easier to propose changes to templates with many flag variants and so forth. Yours sincerely, Sondre --88.89.103.4 (talk) 09:38, 22 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I strongly recommend creating an account, editing is much easier with one. Anyway, I would put on the talk page of the template whose sandbox you want created. Explain very clearly what you want in the edit request and say that to the best of your knowledge there is no better process for making the request - I certainly can't find anything else. User:GKFXtalk 18:43, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Sandbox for the templates of Spain, Afghanistan and Russia
Hello! Is it possible to create sandbox templates for Russia, Spain and Afghanistan?. It can be good to have a sandbox template for the country data template in itself. This templates are protected because of vandalism and so forth. Template:Country data Russia, Spain and Afghanistan/sandbox. . Yours sincerely, Sondre --62.73.207.204 (talk) 16:52, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done You should have left a request on the pages of each relevant template (to avoid me having to search for them). In addition, I'd echo 's suggestion to create an account, which will make things much easier. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 22:09, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And the links:
 * Template:Country data Spain/sandbox
 * Template:Country data Afghanistan/sandbox
 * Template:Country data Russia/sandbox
 * Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 22:10, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

GBR flag template discussion
Discussion of need for a new GBR3 template for tennis at the GBR template page. Thanks. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:25, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

German Fatherland Flag listed at Requested moves
A requested move discussion has been initiated for German Fatherland Flag to be moved. This page is of interest to this WikiProject and interested members may want to participate in the discussion here. —RMCD bot 22:52, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * To opt out of RM notifications on this page, transclude, or set up Article alerts for this WikiProject.

Using new rcat
I'm not sure how many people are active in this project, but I created a new rcat R country data. There are a total of 1,736 redirects within Category:Country data redirects, and I want to add the rcat to them all. Does anyone object to that? &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times"> MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 18:25, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * As mentioned at WT:R, templates are preferable to categorising redirects directly. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  20:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Good idea, but would "R to country data" be a better title? Certes (talk) 15:10, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily since the redirect is also in the form of Country data X in addition to the target. Therefore, both and  would be equally valid. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times"> MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 19:41, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
 * With no objections, I am going to use this RCAT for all the redirects. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times"> MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 18:17, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * For 1736 redirects, you should file a WP:BOTREQ. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  18:19, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I was just going to do them semi-automatically with WP:AWB. That might be for the best because redirects like Template:Country data 'Ajmān and Template:Country data ASH wouldn't get properly sorted unless done by a human. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times"> MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 18:26, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * @MJL: It could use the existing sortkey. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  18:44, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * @Qwerfjkl: I was just going to have R country data detect the sortkey automatically in most cases since it is generally obvious what it should be (the thing after country data). Though, I actually need to revise the code because it currently doesn't work right. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times"> MJL &thinsp;‐Talk‐☖ 18:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * @MJL: I meant the non-existent bot could take the sortkey from the category, when it doesn't match the expected pattern. &#8213; Qwerfjkl  talk  21:09, 12 December 2021 (UTC)