Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 22

Brewing Industry International Awards now known as International Brewing Awards
The oldest international celebration of excellence in brewing competition has been renamed the International Brewing Awards. Formed in 1886, the 125+ year competition takes place 13th - 15th February 2013 in Burton upon Trent, UK (known internationally as the "home" of UK brewing industry). For further information go to www.brewingawards.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by RuthEvans60 (talk • contribs) 07:11, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Request to remove Excipient article from this project
I hope that I'm posting this request in the right spot; if not, perhaps someone could kindly point me in the right direction.

I'd like to request that the Excipient article, which is currently tagged as being part of this project, be removed from the project. The article deals with pharmacology subject matter, and upon reading through the entire article, I'm not sure how it could be justified that it also deals with food and drink subject matter (aside from the fact that one is likely to ingest an excipient (as one "ingests" food and drink) as part of the medication they're taking). Perhaps I'm wrong on what qualifies an article for inclusion in this project, and if I am, please accept my apologies for unnecessarily taking up your time (and perhaps point me to a page that has the criteria for listing an article on this project). Thanks in advance for your help with this. —Schaea (talk) 20:43, 6 August 2012 (UTC)


 * You don't need permission to do that, it was a misplaced tag from a screwed up bot run (I did that one, still can't live it down).--Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 06:21, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Proposed changes to the 'Burton's Foods' wikipedia entry
I would like to propose changes to the ‘Burton's Foods’ wikipedia entry because it rebranded to be Burton's Biscuit Company in November 2011.

I work for the company, and so before editing I wanted to check the changes are acceptable, and if this is the recommended way to go about edits to a company that has re-branded:

- Change headline to 'Burton's Biscuit Company' from 'Burton's Foods' - Delete 'foods' from all subsequent references to 'Burton's Foods' - Reference that the company re-branded from Burton’s Foods to Burton’s Biscuit Company In November 2011 - Update the information regarding the location of Burton’s facilities - Acknowledge that the company is the UK's number two biscuit maker (as cited in a Financial Times article), and that it sells biscuits internationally

Any feedback welcomed.

Thanks, Melita Burtons Biscuits (talk) 07:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Melita. Many thanks for being so up front about your links. Would that every business was so open about its activities on Wikipedia. I don't know if you've found your way to WP:PSCOI yet, but that page outlines the usual Wikipedia policy on editors with links to the article subject. In brief, no problems, but keep your edits factual, substantiated, and free from bias or advertorial. The edits you have suggested so far seem perfectly fine, so long as you can source them properly; your noting of coverage in the FT indicates to me that you have got the idea about reliable sources under control already! The template cite news may be of use to you, as will the proper tags. Looking forward to your edits. Bye for now.  Pyrop e  18:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
 * There's one other point (I agree with Pyrope that you're approaching this in a refreshingly open way). I think your username falls foul of Wikipedia policy, as usernames are not supposed to represent organizations (see Username policy for the logic behind this). So, don't be offended if you're asked to change it, and it might be simplest just to drop it and log in afresh with a non-corporate username of your choice. And rew D alby  09:21, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions, will definitely take them on board.Burtons Biscuits (talk) 07:47, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Help needed from food article experts
Hi. I don't edit articles on food that often, but I've recently eaten at a pizzeria in Hoboken, NJ called Pizza Republic that has a unique macaroni and cheese bar, and thought that both material on that eatery and a photo of the dish I ordered would go well in the macaroni and cheese article, but I don't know where to find sources whose info isn't either created by that eatery (which would violate WP:PSTS and WP:SELFPUB), or reviews by diners there (which would violate WP:USERG). Does anyone know where I can find sources with reviews by reliable publications (that is, by professional food critics)? Nightscream (talk) 20:42, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, what do you mean? Are you looking for photos of that pizzeria? It is more than likely that any photo on internet about PR is protected by copyright. So the best think I can advice you is the following: get your wallet, your camera and your partner, go back to the pizzeria and make photos of whatever food you like. The Banner talk 22:11, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No, sources for textual material that can be placed in the article body. Specifically, mention of that restaurant as an example of a restaurant with a mac and cheese bar, perhaps at the bottom of the mac and cheese article's history section. I could just add one of the photos I took of the dish I ordered, though I'd prefer to contribute something to the article's text as well if possible, in part in order create a stronger connection between the photo and the text. Sorry that I wasn't clearer above. Nightscream (talk) 01:48, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Good places to start would be industry publications such as Nation's Restaurant News and Restaurants and Institutions. Please try to keep reviews out of the article when using them for sources beyond reception. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 14:00, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean? Nightscream (talk) 14:56, 29 August 2012 (UTC)


 * When looking up sources, there is a tendency to utilize reviews and such found in local or regional newspapers. The issue with these reviews is that they fall under routine coverage, and do not confer notability on the subject. They work towards verifying the subject, but do not establish the verifiable evidence require on WP - even if the source is reliable. The reason is that these reviews are usually nothing more than I/we ate there, we ate this, it cost $x.xx and and was good/bad. The problem with reviews and coverage in restaurant guides is that there isn't significant depth of coverage to establish notability for the creation of articles. To include information in existing articles, you would need something that would provide enough information and data to make the stuff you wish to include worthy of inclusion.


 * Does this help? --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 16:02, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

My query doesn't pertain to article creation. It pertains to adding material to an existing article. Notability does not apply in that regard. Thanks for mentioning those industry publications, though; hopefully that will bear some fruit. Nightscream (talk) 04:57, 30 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Nation's Restaurant News yielded no results, and Restaurants & Institutions shut down in April 2010. Thanks anyway, though. Nightscream (talk) 23:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

JUNGLE JUICE
The gi's in WWII Pacific Theater were very resourceful. Especially concerning their distilled drinks. When booze was in short supply "in theater" they made their own using local fruits and grains for their homemade stills. The product of these works was called "jungle juice". And this it the alcohol used in the punchlike beverages affectionately know as "jungle juice." That is the earliest useage of this term. I have no cit.s for this. But i know the Army and these stories are very prevalaint among the older vets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.114.88.96 (talk) 18:39, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Robert Leckie (author) used the term in Helmet for My Pillow. But Leckie was not a GI, he was a Marine... The Banner talk 20:16, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Pau, pav
Some northern Indian dishes use the pav bread roll, also known as pau. Confusingly (but perhaps not coincindentally) the Chinsese baozi roll is also known as pau. It would be great if a foodie could help disentangle the page names - currently pav is a disambiguation page, pau redirects to bazoi, and Pav Bhaji needs an admin move to Pav bhaji. Rich Farmbrough, 15:09, 11 September 2012 (UTC).

New category: Category:French cuisine by region
I created Category:French cuisine by region to parallel the extant (and well-developed) fr:Catégorie:Gastronomie française par région. Hope some folks find this an interesting way to refer cross-wiki, and to better organise the still somewhat unwieldy Category:French cuisine (has 200 articles in the main cat, so needs some sorting). MatthewVanitas (talk) 22:03, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Baby food
I've just added Baby food to this project's list, and I rated it as Top-priority, because it seemed to me like it was at least as close to a WP:VITAL article as lemonade and cocktail garnish and List of bacon dishes and the other things listed as top-importance.

If you disagree, please feel free to re-rate. And you might want to look over your Category:Top-importance Food and drink articles to see whether its contents are what you want. The WP:1.0 team is going to be using your importance ratings to choose articles for its offline release in a few more weeks. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:56, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Salty Fingers (plant)
There is an ongoing AfD discussion to which I have contributed already. I simply think that this article is of relevance to us, and I think you might want to provide your views. You'll find it under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2012_September_20#Salty_Fingers_.28plant.29. A bientôt, VictorVautier (talk) 08:20, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Try Articles for deletion/Salty Fingers (plant). The discussion was relisted, so it's still open.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:19, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Kaiser roll
I noted a new reference type added to Kaiser roll. It seems to violate verifiability as well as reliable sources. On the other hand, the Kaiser roll is shaped somewhat similar to some images of a Kaiser's crown, and may be acceptable under the lightweight exception as it doesn't seem that extraordinary of a claim. Gzuufy (talk) 15:05, 25 September 2012 (UTC)


 * That's not a new type of reference, that's original research and hearsay, of no encyclopedic value here. By adding a bogus 'reference' you give it a veneer of respectability that it simply doesn't deserve. I removed it.  Pyrop e  16:03, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Category:People associated with beverages
Category:People associated with beverages, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for deletion, along with 3 of its sub-categories. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.. -- Brown HairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:47, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

List of food preparation utensils
List of food preparation utensils has been selected as today's article for improvement – a week long collaborative effort to improve the article. I think it would be a great chance to show what this project can achieve, and perhaps even get some new members interested. —WFC— FL wishlist 04:09, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Watergate salad
Watergate salad was often taken to church potluck dinners in the early 70s. It was described as "full of nuts" and with many "coverup" ingredients. I remember we laughed at that, trying to soften the hard news of government lawlessness. 68.102.149.159 (talk) 21:44, 6 October 2012 (UTC) Lee Anne Lichte


 * It appears that we have an article at Watergate salad. It would be interesting to know whether any cookbooks, magazine articles, or other WP:Reliable sources discuss the origin of the name.  That's what we usually want before we add information about a folk etymology.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:49, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

redirect inconsistency on Cooking oil
The Cooking oil page is the redirect destination for cooking fat, yet an IP placed ghee at the bottom of the page, and it was later undone by an editor. It seems to either be a logical flaw in the redirects, or an inflexibility to adapt existing articles to current redirects. Is there some deliberate reason for this inconsistency? Gzuufy (talk) 18:25, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Merge discussion
Talk:Pizza cheese All are welcome to discuss the issue, please stop by. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 18:38, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

File:Bun festival bun.jpg
File:Bun festival bun.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.247.66 (talk) 03:14, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Palm kernel oil nutrition information
Hello, I'm looking for help with a request that I made on the Palm kernel oil talk page a short while ago. I have proposed a slight reordering and rewriting of text in the article to clarify and group nutrition information on palm kernel oil together. Currently the information on nutrition is poorly sourced and in two places in the article. I am writing here, instead of making the changes myself, as the request is on behalf of the Malaysian Palm Oil Council. The request on the talk page includes my proposed text and references. I hope that an editor will have the time to review my request and help me make this change. Thanks in advance. YellowOwl (talk) 21:46, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

merge proposal Tripe soups and Stew
Somebody wants to merge the article Stew into the article Tripe soups, without any discussion or consensus. I guess he does not know the way (or ignores it), so I mentioned the merge proposal here and on the talkpages of the articles. Please give your opinion soon, as mr. Welshwind has already tried to merge the articles twice (by copy and paste) The Banner talk 20:29, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Soft-serve fruit
There's an AP article in the Chronc about soft-serve fruit, which seems to be frozen fruit, pureed, and served as if it were soft serve ice cream. I think Wikipedia should at least mention this, but I don't know if it qualifies for its own article at this point, or if it's just going to be a brief flash in the pan. What do you think? WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:07, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm unsure. Searching for GNews hits, there is this article and a couple of blogs. I'd say it's on the edge, given the scarcity of sources for both the food and Soft Serve Fruit Co. Chris857 (talk) 02:02, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Problem?
Can somebody take a look at the actions of Welshwind here? We are on the brink of editwarring and he is doing quite remarkable thinks for a relative newcomer. More eyes needed! The Banner talk 01:50, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Your link is to Welshwind's contributions. Agreed, surely not a new user, but one with a special interest in migration in Europe. Well, that's all right unless the edits are all wrong. Where's your focus of concern? Andrew Dalby 08:36, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * My main concern is that he is doing radical edits (mergers/namechanges) without any discussion. In my opinion it is coming close to POV-pushing. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 10:26, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I have the impression that there's some misunderstanding at Talk:Tripe soups. But it's quite possible the misunderstading is mine ... Andrew Dalby 11:26, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Turned out to be a sockpuppet, related to this guy.
 * That certainly explains why Welshwind's edits were not those of a new user. Well spotted, The Banner. Andrew Dalby 09:57, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Not my work! It was Atlan who remembered the case against Rejedef and checked it out. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 22:02, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Is seafood a subset of cuisine?
Should articles on seafood be given titles that restrict them to cuisines, as a user maintains in this thread? There is a referral for comment on this issue where members of this project are invited to give their views. --Epipelagic (talk) 22:36, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Danger Warnings on Food & Drink entries.
I became interested in this Food and Drink section after being asked by a friend to review a dangerous plant that you have listed under food and drink. Here is a link to that specific talk page;

mulberry tree

However after much review I started realizing quite a few foods may need review, just like drugs; food and drink can be dangerous, even water consumed in too great a quantity in a short period of time can result in death. I am suggesting some form of warning link and excerpt added to dangerous foods due to potential poison or toxic/ allergenic reactions. In the case of the mulberry tree, the fruit is safer than the tree, and there have been so many scammers using the name of mulberry on all kinds of plants, really is a major issue on this plant. Many of the earliest records of using the name of mulberry for other plants were from general Asia, with known sources atrib to China. Many nations in Europe and the Americas wanted to start producing silk, but China had a good thing going so sold off species that may be related to mulberry but silkworms do not eat. One form has a milk like sap that causes death in many insects and hallucinations in humans. I am sticking with this one plant name as know something of it's history, but safety of all foods could be a topic worth review, especially new strains created in labs that have never had any allergy testing.

I do have specific personal experiences with one 'mulberry tree'. It has been identified tentatively as a "male fruitless white mulberry". The very first word is wrong as mulberry plants do not have only a single sex. This one is fruitless but that results in massive amounts of pollen being produced every Spring. That pollen is so allergenic that people with lung disease have died from 1 exposure to this tree, (I watched one man die as Paramedics worked on him right under the tree.) That one tree has had over half a dozen people's deaths attributed to it, one I heard was thinking of buying the house and had COPD so I warned him against buying the home. He bought anyhow and told me in a few days that my warning made him decide, he thought I was trying to swing some other deal. Oh I felt so bad, and he was dead in less than a week after buying the home. I just reviewed all I have written and admit I tend to go on & on. I do know a lot about these trees, but can't claim being an expert in part due to so many different plants having the same name. I do know that testing of young children under 12 associated with exposure to this plant have an almost 100% chance of developing lung disease for life. And this plant is not even native to N.America. I must close now as don't want to make a book out of a comment. I am not too familiar with your proper 'talk' activities. If this is too long, please forgive, you have my permission to edit if that helps. Thanks, 24.121.44.40 (talk) 21:51, 31 October 2012 (UTC)