Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 24

Russian food
What is the Russian food, viziga, referred to on page 121 of Margaret Powell's "Servants' Hall"? 204.13.204.194 (talk) 19:56, 3 February 2013 (UTC)etjart@hotmail.com
 * Looks like some kind of delicacy made from sturgeon. Here's the Russian wiki page on it. And have a look at these Google image search results. Ibadibam (talk) 03:11, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Proposed move of Plantain
I would welcome comments at Talk:Plantain. Peter coxhead (talk) 11:39, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Template:British cuisine
By now, I have started doubting about my revert at Template:British cuisine. Is my revert correct, or was I in the wrong here? The Banner talk 15:24, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like a justified rv to me, although a) I'm not sure why you think scones and cream are German, and b) it's true that the current pic isn't particularly attractive. A quick survey of other cuisine templates shows that British cuisine is the only one with text in it. Ibadibam (talk) 23:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I was wrong footed due to the picture only used on the German WP. Realising that, I started doubting the correctness of my action. The Banner talk 02:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

nash salad
is now being served at Articles for deletion/Nash salad. Shoulda left a note here when i saw the article. Any feedback/expertise on this salad would be welcome. Thanks Dloh  cierekim  21:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Nash salad was deleted. Northamerica1000(talk) 01:25, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Category: Edible Legumes
Does the scope of the Food and Drink project include only HUMAN food and drink? I ask this because some legumes included under the Category 'Edible Legumes' are normally eaten only by animals (example: Lathyrus aphaca). However, because of this categorization they are included (incorrectly, I believe) within the scope of project Food and Drink. Unless it can be successfully argued that Category 'Edible Legumes' should include animal feed, I will go through the legumes one by one, deleting non-human foods from the Edible Legumes category, which will cause them to lose their 'Food and Drink' tag. Piedmont (talk) 15:05, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I would think that "edible" should mean only "that which may be safely eaten by humans" as is stated at Category:Edible plants, for example. That said, I see no information on Lathyrus aphaca that suggests it is only eaten by non-human animals, and somebody must have had a good reason for adding the category to that page. Maybe you could contact them for an explanation, or look for a source on the species' edibility. Ibadibam (talk) 20:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)


 * AS the guy that ran the tagging bonanza several years ago, some stuff that shouldn't have been tagged was and if you locate any errant tags feel free to delete them. I agree with Ibadibam that this category should only include those legumes consumed by us homo sapiens. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Lathyrus aphaca has been regarded by archaeologists as a human food item in (for example) prehistoric Greece. Maybe I can find a reference. But "safely" is another thing, surely. A lot of things that are potentially edible are poisonous until cooked. Andrew Dalby 10:39, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Multiple, over lapping boxes
I see overlapping boxes on several pages. My most recent, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerber_sandwich, is not too bad, and others are worse. Should they be fixed? I don't know how. Should the originators avoid the overlaps? 20rdj04 (talk) 04:00, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

Deleted article Names for soft drinks
An admin recently sent me the contents of Names for soft drinks, which was PRODded for poor sourcing and potential OR. That may sound harsh, but I can understand why, looking at it. The article just listed what soft drinks are called in countries around the world, which is great in terms of globalizing and fighting WP:BIAS, but the only sources dealt with the "pop vs. soda" debate in the United States (perhaps to a lesser extent in Canada). I don't know if it's just my bias as an American, but it seems like that issue definitely passes WP:GNG, whereas talking about names elsewhere in the world feels like an indiscriminate infodump. The way I see it, there are basically three ways I can proceed (and I do want this to stand as an article, one way or another): I'm not 100% comfortable with any of these. What do you think? --BDD (talk) 17:32, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * 1) Just run with the former article
 * 2) Make a US-specific article, i.e. Names for soft drinks in the United States
 * 3) Revamp the article based on sources—this will probably mean a general name, US focus, and a section on names elsewhere
 * Without seeing the deleted article, it's hard to know what we're talking about. Was it a list of English-language names for soft drinks, or a translation list like Names of the United States? The former could probably be condensed into a section in the Soft drink article; the latter probably doesn't really need to exist as an article. Ibadibam (talk) 19:14, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I probably broke the rules, but I moved it here for discussion: WikiProject Food and drink/Names for soft drinks. If I forget to handle it in due time, just tag it CSD G6 linking to this discussion. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Ok so looking it over, I've got to say I'm having trouble seeing the full merit of this article. While the title and lead would indicate a list of the terms used for soft drinks around the world, the article actually drifts into discussions of regional specialties, their histories, and the availability of global brands. Some of this information is already covered in List of soft drinks by country. Some of it, like the soda/pop/coke variation, really belongs in a section of Soft drink. Some of it can just stand in the individual articles for each specific regional beverage.
 * "Soft drink" is a very broad category, not a specific thing, and it doesn't have a true analogue in every language or culture, which is why the article in question had to go to so much trouble explaining the difference between Coke and every nonalcoholic beverage around the world. And while we could have a list of all the terms and translations, Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and it seems to me that Wiktionary should be more than adequate to convey this information. Ibadibam (talk) 01:07, 8 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the article as it existed isn't really worth reproducing, but I still think the soda/pop debate is notable, so I'll try option two. If it's deleted on its own merits, I'll just leave it alone. --BDD (talk) 17:27, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've started a draft at User:BDD/Names for soft drinks in the United States. If anyone wants to help out, it will probably be there for a day or two. --BDD (talk) 18:11, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Category names
Is the proper name for the category, Category:Wine navbox templates or Category:Wine navigational boxes? I thought we were using "XXXX navigational boxes", but an editor has been renaming all of them to "XXXX navbox templates". Which is correct? 174.56.57.138 (talk) 04:02, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


 * "XXXX navigational boxes" is correct, the issue has been brought up at WP:AN/I --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 07:29, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Pasta-gate
Should Office québécois de la langue française be updated to account for pastagate? It did garner international attention (especially in Italy), unlike many of the other OLF gaffes. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 04:20, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * It just looks like a silly gaffe followed by a hype. I even doubt Pastagate does warrant a stand-alone article at all. The Banner talk 10:54, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Sumac
Sumac has been proposed to be renamed, see talk:Sumac -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 09:57, 10 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Requested moves do show up on the main wikiproject page, so there's usually no need to bring them up here. Thanks. Ibadibam (talk) 18:09, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Several files up for deletion
See Possibly unfree files/2013 March 16 where several food related files are up for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 23:59, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Pressure vacuum, or Chorleywood mixer pic?
I was looking over at Commons, and while I may not have used the correct keywords, I was unable to find images of either a Chorleywood mixing machine or a pressure-vacuum mixer. If you have such a dough-mixing machine, can you perhaps snap a picture of it and donate it to Commons? Gzuufy (talk) 20:05, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Proposed file deletions

 * File:Irish bacon.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 02:02, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
 * File:Prosphora.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 09:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Guang Bing.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 09:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Pickled&stuffedpaprika.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 09:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:CFIA-ACIA heraldic emblem.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Shawarmajordan.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Shawarma Sandwich.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Raclette gril.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:S6001271.JPG has been tagged for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:25, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Foodguatita.png has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 00:50, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Eggfett2.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:05, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Arabic coffee cup.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:24, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The usage of Beet is under discussion, see talk:Beet -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 05:04, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Coffee Mate.jpg has been nominated for deletion. But we don't have a Coffee-Mate article to use it in... -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * file:Chilidogbacon.jpg has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:25, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * many food images up for deletion, See Files_for_deletion/2013_March_28, Files_for_deletion/2013_March_29, Files_for_deletion/2013_March_30 where many food images are up for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:44, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Quote atop the project's main page
I've boldly removed the quote that was previously atop the project's main page:

It is quite subjective per the personal opinion of one person, Alton Brown, and doesn't really have much to say about food and foodstuffs in and of itself. Is this quote really needed atop the page at this time? I don't believe that all journeys are "spiritual" myself. Why would they all be as such? Also, this could confer to almost anything else besides food. For example, consider: "If you search carefully, you will find good taxis all along the way." Any noun fits into this type of generic analogy. Northamerica1000(talk) 00:20, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * The quotes are designed to food as a whole, and how it relates to life. I restored it. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 04:47, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Nevertheless, a quote more directly related to food would be better, in my opinion. The part that states "and know that faith is as real as bread broken among friends. What you believe will take you far on your journey" doesn't really state anything. Faith in what? What type of faith is this about? Beliefs in what? For example, I believe that 1+1=2, but it won't take me far on any "journey". For starters, check out these quotes at Wikiquote. Another idea is to have revolving quotes, perhaps on a monthly basis. Northamerica1000(talk) 09:48, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I suggest a rotating quote similar to the stuff found on the portal page. --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!)  01:11, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

WP:Food main page changes
Sandbox * Sandbox 1 * Sandbox 2

Northamerica1000 has been making some bold changes to the Project main page. While I applaud his eagerness, this is an issue that really needs to be discussed because unlike an article, this is a page for the members of this project and individual members should consult with the project. I have asked him to please stop editing the main page and discuss the issue here be fore making any more changes (WP:BRD). I have also asked him to use the sandbox to design any changes he wishes so he can display what he wishes to do.

Personally, I have no issue making changes to the page despite his opinion. I went through this same issue with the Beer WikiProject several years ago and we were able to come a consensus to implement a new page design. What I am asking for is a reasonable discussion per WP:BRD before whole scale changes are made based on one person's personal opinion.

Here are some of my concerns:
 * The NOEDITSECTION magic tag - This is there because, like the Wikipedia main page, it is not intended for anyone to come in and edit. The areas we wish people to be able to edit are linked so that they can edit them.
 * Templates instead of wiki markup - The page is written to utilize wiki-markup, and the edits replaced it with random templates that really should not be on a project page.

--Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:19, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Chili burger merge discussion
G'day All. There's a discussion at Talk:Chili burger on whether the article should be merged. Being that the article falls under your jurisdiction, you might be interested in participating. &tilde;danjel [ talk &#124; contribs ] 07:02, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Proposed layout changes to this project's main page
Please see this project's Sandbox page for proposed layout changes to the project's main page. Many of these would be beneficial to this project to promote higher viewership and participation. Others are aesthetic changes. The following changes are proposed, as displayed on the sandbox page as of this post:
 * Reduce font size of "WikiProject Food and drink" in the header, so it doesn't dominate the top of the page
 * Move Wikiproject status template down
 * Change the line in the header to person-neutral "A project dedicated to food and drink on Wikipedia." The current line "A project dedicated to the foodie in all of us" is assumptive and suggests that all people are "foodies"; everyone is not inherently a foodie.
 * Remove the quote atop the page from Alton Brown; its been there forever and is a very generic analogy. It is quite subjective and doesn't state much about food in general. See Quote atop the project's main page above for more commentary.
 * Move the Ways to contribute section up, and the participants and Assessment task force sections down. This makes articles more prominent when people go to the page, which is what the project tends to focus on. This is superior to first seeing lists of user names and comments, and can promote increased participation.
 * Remove, to enable ease in adding articles to the New articles and nominations for top level importance sections. This way people don't have to edit the entire page and then find the section in which to add content.
 * Moved article alerts to the top of the Article information section, since they have the shortest timeframe (e.g. articles for deletion). Add a box to article alerts to improve layout.
 * Add (Currently empty) to the New articles and Nominations for Top Level Importance sections when they are empty, to demonstrate that people can add content here. Otherwise, they will likely stay empty for a long time.
 * Move the Community forums section down. The Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Community forum page that links from here has been inactive since September 2011. The Notability (restaurants) essay is inactive and is a failed proposal.
 * The simplest way to enact these changes is to change the page's layout to this very recent version: 547165595. —Northamerica1000(talk) 11:00, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Addendum: I've updated the page tabs atop to make them easier to read by adding bold, so people don't skim over them due to the tiny point size they currently have. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:30, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Support The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 12:49, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Note: the addendum above was added after this !vote. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:35, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * After a long deliberation of about 1 second, I decided to retain my support vote. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 16:08, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking in. Cheers, Northamerica1000(talk) 16:36, 27 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Support as nominator. Northamerica1000(talk) 14:22, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Support, although I wouldn't mind a quote change over outright removal.--Yaksar (let's chat) 14:43, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - Give me a couple days for my version update.--<span style="font-family:lucida sans, sans-serif;">Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 16:47, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * After months of low-level edit warring about the main page, you still don't know what you want with the main page? That sounds a bit, hmmm, unbelievable and obstructing. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 20:48, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Reply - It is not edit warring when you ask some one to please discuss something (WP:BRD). Also, I have an idea based on some other work I have done and just want to put forward it forward as well. Be nice, and comment on the discussion, not the contributors. --<span style="font-family:lucida sans, sans-serif;">Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 21:26, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The above changes have been implemented. Over seven days have passed, and consensus here is to go with the changes. Northamerica1000(talk) 00:30, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Three people is not a consensus. This project has over 100 members and less than 4% of them discussing your proposed changes does not even approach the level of participation required to implement wholesale changes. You will need allot more than us four people to declare this a proper discussion. further, you need someone other than your self to call this. I have made a request at WP:Botreq to notify all of our members and invite them to comment on your proposal. If something more than the limited amount of people who have already commented can come up with a real consensus I'll gladly accept their opinion, as it stands now this is not a true consensus of our membership. --<span style="font-family:lucida sans, sans-serif;">Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:51, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Your single opposing stance is even less than the three supporting, so I have reverted you change. <span style="font-family:'Old English Text MT',serif;color:green">The Banner <i style="color:maroon">talk</i> 12:39, 5 April 2013 (UTC)


 * Support – Jeremy is making out this is a big deal because he, Jeremy, has ideas. But instead of telling us what they are he is just using his idea that he has ideas to obstruct the process. Jeremy can propose his ideas later if he can decide what they are. In the meantime they don't have to get in the way of the current proposal. --Epipelagic (talk) 06:36, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment, for the love of god, please try not to be WP:LAME. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 08:48, 5 April 2013 (UTC) - Also, remember WP:DEW. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 08:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment - I've reverted User:Jerem43's changes at WikiProject Food and drink/PageTabs. Consensus here is to add bold to the page tabs. Please do not revert again without discussing the matter here, per WP:BRD. Thank you. Northamerica1000(talk) 22:51, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

N518484998 146142 6541.jpg
file:N518484998 146142 6541.jpg (Japanese curry) has been nominated for deletion -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 02:16, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Image request for Vanilla ice cream
May I request for a picture for Vanilla ice cream?-- Lenticel ( talk ) 02:40, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Take your pick. My suggestions would be File:BR Vanilla ice cream.jpg or File:Vanilla Ice Cream Cone at Camp Manitoulin.jpg as they seem to be the "simplest" and nicest examples, as they feature only vanilla ice cream and not cakes, floats, or other flavors. Chris857 (talk) 03:03, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Wow, we have those lying around? Cool (pun intended :P)! Thanks Chris!-- Lenticel ( talk ) 03:36, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Daikon (Oriental radish)
Daikon (white radish) has been proposed to be renamed, see talk:Daikon -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Ma-kok.jpg
file:Ma-kok.jpg has been nominated for deletino -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 22:57, 31 March 2013 (UTC)