Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Archive 29

Restaurant groups
How should this subject be covered? There seems to be a big move to groups of restaurants that are not necessarily clones. They are often opened by a restaurateur a la Wolfgang Puck. There seems to be a wave of this type of restaurant organization of several independent and different restaurants opened under an umbrella group. Thoughts? Candleabracadabra (talk) 20:32, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
 * A few possible approaches, depending on the case:
 * When there are only a few restaurants, they can be covered in a section of the restauranteur's article, since usually the person is the notable topic, not the restaurants themselves. Wolfgang Puck is a good example of this.
 * When there are so many restaurants that an embedded list would disrupt the article, a standalone list like List of restaurants owned or operated by Gordon Ramsay works well
 * When there is a parent company that is notable in its own right, the restaurants can be discussed at that article (example: Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises)
 * Ibadibam (talk) 21:07, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Pre-GAN ping
Hey all, I am thinking about putting up Sip 'n Dip Lounge for GAN. I've done quite a few GANs in the past, but mostly about people or horses, never one on a bar or restaurant-type of place, so thought I'd drop a line here to see if anyone wants to peek at the article and make any suggestions for improvement. (I usually don't do a PR until I'm heading for FAC with something). Thanks  Montanabw (talk) 21:58, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Ochsenblut
I created an article on this cocktail, but I can't find very good sourcing for it. Is it a real thing? Candleabracadabra (talk) 20:02, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Expand new Pinard (wine) (any French-speakers or WWI fans?)
I ran across the term pinard somewhere years ago and put it on my WP "to do" list. Apparently it's a French military term for wine, kind of akin in sentiment to "grog". A previous version was deleted in 2009 per WP:NOTDICT, but I think there's enough cultural context around pinard as a concept, not just a word, to justify an article (and fr.wiki seems to quite agree). I've put together a pretty basic version just based on English sources on GoogleBooks and an image from fr:Pinard (vin). If anyone is keen on this and speaks French, I'm sure much more could be said, though the fr.wiki version as it stands is just too flowery/sentimental/inside-jokey to pass en.wiki WP:TONE standards. Just thought folks might find this an interesting article about wine culture. MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

Food industry template
I'm not a member of this WikiProject, but I was looking for the article on the documentary film Farmland (which, amazingly, doesn't have an article yet), when I stumbled upon some other food industry documentaries, such as Fast Food Nation. I saw its extensive "See also" section, and noticed that it's essentially repeated in every article that it links to. So I thought it would be a good idea to make a template for it an include it in all the related articles. I came up with this:

I know the title of the infobox title isn't perfect, since all these articles are of the "Boo! Food industry bad! Boo!" variety, but please suggest a better title if you can think of one. Thoughts? Comments? Criticisms? — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 13:45, 2 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Wow, three days and no response? I had no idea this project was so dead. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 18:07, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Frecklefoot, since they're all books and films, perhaps rename to "Food industry books and films". That or expand it with more topics, and leave the title as-is. NorthAmerica1000 22:09, 5 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks, . After thinking about it, I think I'll just name it Food industry criticism. It seems the most appropriate. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 12:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I like "Food industry books and films" because all items here are books and films. If you really wanted to make a "food industry criticism" template, I would expect it to contain articles like Criticism of Coca-Cola and Genetically modified food controversies. Yes, this project is underserved please put it on your watchlist if you would. There are some people around but it would be encouraging to have a few more.  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  13:53, 6 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks,  Blue Rasberry  . I like Food industry criticism because all the entries are critical of the food industry. I would just populate the books and films sections, but I wouldn't oppose other adding & populating other sections. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 13:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Ping me when you make the navbox and I will add other sections and articles. Thanks!  Blue Rasberry   (talk)  13:59, 6 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Will do. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 14:07, 6 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Okay,, I created the template here. Feel free to add anything appropriate, including any books or films I may have missed. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 16:15, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Oatcakes
If I were looking for an article on oatcakes I'd probably end up at Oatcake but what I call an oatcake we call a Staffordshire oatcake. I'm not sure this makes sense as I think the most popular understanding of an oatcake is a Staffordshire oatcake. Dougweller (talk) 18:34, 3 May 2014 (UTC)


 * There is a hatnote at the top of the oatcake page. I suppose you could also add a link to the straffordshire variety in the opening paragraphs as well. But it looks okay to me having articles on both and I think it would be unusual to make the main article subject about a regional variety of a food. I do think the hatnotes at the top of pages can get lost among the smorgasbord of lazy template taggings that goes on here, but apart from adding a link in the text itself I'm not sure what else you would have us do? Candleabracadabra (talk) 18:55, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Food And Drink At Wikimania 2014
Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost

For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to: Project leaflets Adikhajuria (talk) 09:57, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

No outline - could use "History' as one subsection
There doesn't seem to be a suggested article outline for any class of food.

One section that seems to be missing is "History." For example, how did humans discover, come to cultivate, or process/prepare this food? And when? Student7 (talk) 20:24, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I was just looking for that myself. I found WikiProject Food and drink/Article guidelines, which appears to be a largely abandoned effort to come up with a useful list of suggested sections.  I think that the wide variety of foods and drinks makes it hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all list.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:28, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Popular candies
So I'm thinking about moving the table at Candy over to List of candies. This would require updating a bunch of WP:FURs, so I'd like other people (who ideally will know more about what the list is intended to contain—there's chocolate and chewing gum in the proposed addition) to tell me what they think first. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:31, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Dispute at Cuisine of Hawaii
More community and project input could be helpful at a dispute at the Cuisine of Hawaii article. Some edit warring and the content dispute could also use more opinions on what images to use.--Mark Miller (talk) 06:01, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Auricularia auricula-judae: nutritionalvalue
Would someone please fix a recent edit at Auricularia auricula-judae (diff). My guess is that the two references in the "name" field should be removed and replaced with the new reference that was added to the "source_usda" field (with the "name" and "group" items in that ref being removed). I suspect that source_usda would actually be removed because it does not make much sense to link to a search page if a ref to the actual page is provided in the ref. The box lists Calcium, Iron, Phosphorous. Why not also Magnesium, Potassium, Sodium, Selenium (which each seem to be more prevalent than Iron)? The value for "kcal" also needs to be fixed by removing "g". I would have a go at doing all that, but it would be better done by someone with a clue. Johnuniq (talk) 01:28, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Hawaii regional cuisine
I have requested comments about the recent restoration of this stub here. Viriditas (talk) 02:34, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Helix aspersa food and drink tag
this snail has been incorrectly tagged as WikiProject Food and drink it is a snail not a meal or drink — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sparkler99 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The article says it is an "edible delicacy", thus it would seem to fall under the food category and project, as well as other categories and projects such as gastropods. Snails are eaten as escargot for example. Candleabracadabra (talk) 11:42, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Sugar candy
I proposed last month re-organizing some of the candy-related articles. You can see my original plan here. As I've gotten further into the sources, though, I've found that my original plan to treat Hard candy and Sugar candy as essentially the same thing is not viable. So I have created Sugar candy as the intermediate step. The overall outline looks something like this now, if you were trying to classify a simple sugar candy like a Dum Dum Pop:


 * Confectionery—includes both baker's confections (pastry) and sugar confections (candy).
 * Candy—all sugar confections, including chewing gum, chocolates, and sugar candies.
 * Sugar candy—only those sugar confections that are really sugar-based (and there are a lot of them).
 * Hard candy, on an equal footing with a number of other categories of sugar candies, such as caramels and fudges.
 * Lollipop, a particular type of hard candy.
 * Dum Dum Pop, a particular brand of lollipop.

My main source for Sugar candy is an industry book that contains a fair bit of technical detail. In the course of working on this, I have discovered several missing articles about sub-categories of sugar candies. Feel free to look at the list, and keep WP:DYK in mind for anything that's interesting.

Also, there is a fair bit of updating that should happen at other articles, because many older articles point to the very broad subject of Confectionery in their first sentences, and they really ought to point to Sugar candy or even one of the subtypes (like Hard candy) instead. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:50, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Poultry
I have proposed the creation of WikiProject Poultry; if you are interested please see WikiProject_Council/Proposals/Poultry_(proposal_2). This project will cover all areas of poultry, including usage in food. JTdale  Talk 12:04, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I have done a lot of work with WikiProject Council. My impression is that successful WikiProjects are those that have multiple established editors actively involved from the very beginning.  If you don't have a couple of "wiki-friends" who are dedicated to joining you in this, then you're probably better off not creating a WikiProject.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:06, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Is this going okay?
I am a bit startled by a SPA, working on Heston Blumenthal and the related Triple Cooked Chips and The Fat Duck. I do not know if this is just plain enthusiasm or something less wanted. I would like it when more people take a look at it. The Banner talk 21:46, 2 June 2014 (UTC)


 * The articles have too much POV language and some of the sentences were a little run-on. I fixed up the leads, but be careful of the gushing language. It's okay to quote reliable sources that talk about how awesome the subject is, but we can't use such language in our own prose. — Fr&epsilon;ckl&epsilon;fσσt | Talk 14:08, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Notice of Parmesan merge discussion
A merge discussion is underway at Talk:Parmigiano-Reggiano regarding the newly created article Parmesan. Also see the earlier move request for further background. Ibadibam (talk) 01:20, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Needing attention to grammar?
Hello. I am curious about Category:Food and drink articles needing attention to grammar, a category that includes Talk:Drinking fountain. There are no particular grammar problems on Drinking fountain, and no language or style-related maintenance tags in the article itself. I also don't see anything on the talk page that would occasion this categorization, except for WikiProject Food and drink, which puts the article in the "start" class. Am I right in guessing that all articles below a particular class are automatically classified as "needing attention to grammar"? If so, that strikes me as an odd and rather unhelpful category. It will include well written (in grammatical terms, anyway) articles that lack sources and are thus stub- or start-class just as readily as articles that could actually benefit from grammar-minded copy editing. I haven't noticed such categorization from other banners based on WPBannerMeta; I wonder how common it is. Cnilep (talk) 03:20, 5 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Searching for similar categories, I found that WikiProject Aviation, for one, appears to do the same thing: put articles in Category:Aviation articles needing attention to grammar by default. That category, however, is not visible in the listing of categories on the talk page or the article. In contrast, WikiProject Film seems to put talk pages in Category:Film articles needing attention to grammar only if they are marked as not satisfying the project's grammar and style criteria ("b4=no" in the template). Cnilep (talk) 03:33, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Harlan Goldstein
Hello food experts. This old Afc submission is about to be deleted as a stale draft. It's rather promotional, but I am willing to remove any fluff if the subject is notable. Should Wikipedia have an article about this person? &mdash;Anne Delong (talk) 05:32, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Nagpur orange
An article that you have been involved in editing, Nagpur orange, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Cnilep (talk) 02:38, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Template:Michelin stars in Amsterdam, Netherlands
I removed the Czech road sign from Template:Michelin stars in Amsterdam, Netherlands. would probably be better to have an image of the cover of the Michelin guide, but a Czech road sign seems inappropriate. please make any comments at Template talk:Michelin stars in Amsterdam, Netherlands, if you like the Czech road sign, think we don't need an image, or if you have other suggestions. Frietjes (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't forget to tell that you started removing them from all the templates in the series after I had protested.
 * Most restaurant signs in Europe are similar is design. This Czech sign is clear enough to convey the purpose that this template is about restaurants. The real Dutch signs are of this type what is similar enough. How many people will recognize a) that there is a difference with Dutch signs and b) that the used sign is Czech? The Banner talk 22:49, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ahh, not again... --Jeremy (blah blah • I did it!) 05:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Snack bars


I've made a little progress on candy-related articles, and have a few notes to pass along.


 * Candy bar is a redirect to Chocolate bar, which is not true (candy bars can be chocolate-free). There's a WP:DYK opportunity for anyone who wants to work on that, or perhaps it would make more sense to keep it together and rename the page away from the more specific example of chocolate candy bars.
 * There's no information about the Combination candy bar, of which the GooGoo Cluster is the oldest example. This is a candy bar that contains more than just one kind of candy in it.  I think that this information should be part of a larger article.
 * Our article at Snack bar is about small restaurant-like food outlet, and also contains a section that should probably be a dab page. We have no article on Snack bar (food), i.e., the category of foods that contains everything that is in a bar shape and is eaten as a snack or as a meal replacement:  Flapjack (oat bar), Granola bar (which redirects to a section in Granola rather than to the flapjack article, even though the flapjack article says they're the same thing), Energy bar, Protein bar, Meal replacement bar, Diet bar.  Does anyone know of any other items that belong in this list?  WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I've noticed the Candy bar redirect for awhile, so I have created a new stub there for this topic. People should feel free to expand this new stub article. NorthAmerica1000 02:47, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Looks as if Ref 2 to the Saturn Peach article needs to be deleted as its target is not relevant - as far as I can see. Segilla (talk) 21:27, 29 June 2014 (UTC).