Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Food and drink/Wines task force/Archive 2

Wine bottle shapes... A Picture
Hello! I don't know much about wine, but I'm currently drunk on it... I was just looking at the article on wine bottles. I ran across something on the web describing four different shapes of bottle. Similar descriptions are in the wiki article... I can't help thinking that a picture of the four bottle shapes next to each other would be an excellent addition to the article.

Peace and Love, Nick.

Liquor?
I'm proposing a sister project doing the same things for liquors, that this project and wikiproject beer do for beer and wine... I'm a bit new to Wikipedia, this and beer are the only two projects I have joined so far... I would be quite happy to work on all three as drinking (when not working) is a passion of mine.
 * Do you mean what I would call "spirits and liqueurs"? I never quite know what is covered by "liquors". But I'd be happy to participate in such a project. Andrew Dalby 10:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I posted a similar question on the beer page and the idea for alcoholic beverages as a child to food and drink was proposed also becoming the parrent to beer and wine John Doe or Jane Doe 11:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There is Category:Distilled beverages already in existence, which I guess would be the basis if there is a project for this. Not a very catchy title though.  I'd like to  participate too as spirits are some of my favourite things, along with wine and beer. --The Sage of Brouhaha 13:59, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

That makes me want to burst into song.

''Bottles of claret and medium-dry sherry ''Burgundy, Chablis and fresh Bloody Mary ''Handfuls of peanuts washed down with Gin Slings ''These are a few of my favourite things

Portnadler 17:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 20:58, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

We need to work on the Wine template
Please take a look at the discussion at Template talk:Wines. Hopefully we can come up with something agreeable. Agne 07:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Wine to FA by end of the year?
How about a sort of WineProject Collaboration to get this important article to FA by the end of the year? A new discussion has started at Talk:Wine. Agne 08:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Champagne page move discussion
There is a discussion going on the Champagne talk page about moving the article about Champagne wine to Champagne (beverage) and having Champagne serve as a redirect to Champagne (disambiguation). Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. Agne 23:25, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Champagne for new years?
How about a new year's resolution for wine project members to take an article on a Champagne/Sparkling wine producer and expand it to beyond a stub status? Maybe not up to GA quality but at least something to get it going. There are quite a few red links on List of champagne producers that can use some love and attention. Maybe write about the particular wine that you personally enjoyed over the holidays? or maybe add something to the varietal page? If the page is in need of a picture, why not take a snap short of a poured class next to the bottle? Either way it's a nice start to the new year. Agne 05:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 22:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

What do you guys think about this article?
Problems in the French Wine Industry - It seems like an OR Essay to me with some serious POV issue. Apparently it was splintered off the main Bordeaux Wine article. Does anything look like it could be salvaged or should it be put up for AfD? Agne 10:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree, it has major problems. Second the idea AfD.Gsherry 04:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The inclusionist in me thought I would never do something like this before but I submitted this for deletion. Articles for deletion/Problems in the French Wine Industry Agne 20:23, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Dang, that article is too long for its subject; certainly doesn't qualify as compelling prose after the lead section. Small pieces of it are fascinating though. I'd say move the article to a storage area (like a sandbox subdirectory off this talk page), and gradually move all the interesting bits to other articles. -Amatulic 23:40, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Can we get any extra input. The AfD seems to have grown stale so some fresh thoughts would be appreciated. Agne 21:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Added my input at Articles_for_deletion/Problems_in_the_French_Wine_Industry. Steve.Moulding 21:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Article was deleted 04:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC) Steve.Moulding 05:35, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

suggestions to avoid deletion
Romanée Conti, of all things, was listed for deletion for lack of verifiablity. The way things are, it is critically necessary for at least two good references, indeally to printed books or well known journals. There are surely sufficient wine encyclopedias to do it. Then you can add stuff from some of the PD books on the subject--its in all the major cookbooks as well. But otherwise this article and all articles  without the references will surely be deleted. After you write an article, watch it! I write as a friend, and unfortunately do not really have time to do the editing and checking for you. DGG 02:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The article lacks of a category, so we can better evaluate the rules about inclusion in wikipedia. Is it encyclopedic to include all wine domains? Cate |Talk 07:18, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Wine article assessment
I've added article assessment functionality to the Wine template, which helps to show the quality of WP:WINE articles on Wikipedia. If anyone has time it would be good for people to assess the articles covered by the scope of this project to identify areas of improvement. ◄ §ĉҺɑʀκs  ►  09:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Bordeaux Châteaux Project
Suggestions :

1855

 * Add a wiki page for each Château in Bordeaux_Wine_Official_Classification_of_1855 that doesn't have one (currently 28 third, fourth, and fifth crus). Done for the Troisièmes, should get the others done soon Steve.Moulding 19:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm told I shouldn't add empty pages but should only add pages with content. Will do so going forward. Existing placeholder pages will likely disappear (they were easy to create so no big deal) Steve.Moulding 20:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Add meaningful text and images to the new pages, hopefully in some consistent way Started this but there's a lot to do

Steve.Moulding 19:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Agne has created wiki-acceptable pages for the many 1855 Châteaux that were missing content. Great!
 * For those Châteaux that have their own websites I've started adding links in the individual pages.
 * Most pages still need expanding.

Saint-Emilion

 * Classification_of_Saint-Emilion_wine should have links to those Saint-Emilion Chateaux that currently have their own wiki page. I found wiki pages for Château Cheval Blanc & Château Figeac and have linked them. Haven't had time to track down other Saint-Emilion Châteaux inside wikipedia and link them. Help anybody? Steve.Moulding 21:34, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, it seems like there aren't any wiki pages for Saint-Emilion Châteaux, other than for Château Cheval Blanc & Château Figeac (and, for some reason, a recently demoted Château La Tour du Pin Figeac). So..more to do if anyone is interested in Saint-Emilion Châteaux. I created an Angélus page Château Angélus to get things moving. Steve.Moulding 19:21, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Article Layout and Format
On Talk:Commandaria another editor has brought up the lack of consistency in the layout and format of wine articles. He has drafted a proposal which certainly merits discussion and consideration. Agne 06:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)\ Proposed Format
 * 1) History
 * 2) Production
 * 3) Authentication
 * 4) References

Vintage Infos (part II)
(Earlier Discussion )


 * Smoulding is doing an outstanding job of working on some of Bordeaux Chateaus. However, one that I keep notice is the occurrence of a "vintage section" talking about some good vintages from the chateau and listing references to Wine Spectator's top 100. We talked about this a little bit in the archive but it is worth expounding on. The question is, what is the notability criteria for mentioning good vintages? For examples, the articles that caught my eye was Château Cos d'Estournel, Château Pichon Longueville Baron, Château Talbot. I think this is a worthwhile discussion that might finally get us to formally start an essay about our wine pages and the long talked about Wikipedia is not a wine guide. Agne 20:25, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the kind words Agne :-) . Regarding the question of whether vintage information should be on a wiki page for a particular wine producer (Bordeaux or otherwise), I personally don't think so. I think it is often very subjective and so doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. Even if you want to go quoting the view of your favorite wine critic or magazine (subjective, but at least verifiable) you still have to make sure you don't run afoul of copyright issues. Can we come to a consensus within the Project? If the consensus is to leave it, that's fine. If it is felt that vintage ratings and magazine rankings don't belong, I'm happy to remove them from the Bordeaux Châteaux pages. My vote would be to remove Vintage information and Wine Spectator rankings. What do other people think?? Steve.Moulding 21:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * A lukewarm consensus from the previous discussion (which BTW, thanks for linking to) seemed to be if a particular vintage was "historic" then that would merit inclusion. Though we didn't seem to hammer out what exactly define "historic". I suppose that if multiple non-trivial sources have described a particular vintage could be a definition. (An example would be the 1982 and 1945 Château Pétrus which would be rather easy to find several sources for. However some of the others mentioned in the article might not be so easy to find). But I agree that this area is particular keen to falling into POV and "subjectiveness". Agne 22:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm a big fan of the idea that Wikipedia is not a wine guide :).  As interesting as vintage reviews can be, I don't think they are encyclopedic.  I think it's okay to mention the truely historic ones (1945 Petrus for example - it's still recognized as being something great 60+ years later).  The articles should focus on the producer, if a reader wants to know about the individual wines, then they can rely on their favorite critic. --  The Bethling (Talk) 23:27, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I took the plunge and actually put thought to paper (so to speak) with the essay Wikipedia is not a wine guide. Part of the essay is the sentiment that Vintage mentions and wine ratings should be avoided. Please, any thoughts or comments are appreciated and any constructive editing is even better. I would love for this to become truly a wine project essay with everyone contributing and shaping its use. Agne 06:46, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Super! Very nice. I left some commments on -- Steve.Moulding 15:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Excellent job. I think it handles the matter very well. --Bduke 20:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Great article, Agne. I wish I could write that well. I have always been uncomfortable with the Zinfandel article mentioning notable Zins and Zinfandel-growing regions. Therefore, I agree, Wikipedia should not be a wine guide. (I have a special attachment to the Zinfandel article; I actually went to Croatia, visited the vineyard where Zinfandel's ancestor still grows, interviewed the owner, took pictures, got hardcopy information, and then wrote up the parts on history and genealogy). -Amatulic 21:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Shiraz grape
I'd like to move the page to a title more consistent with other grape articles. Please voice your thoughts on the Talk:Shiraz grape page. Agne 22:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)