Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Germany task force/Archive 4

Placings tables
I have removed the outdated (and only those) placings tables from the German league articles to my sandbox for overhaul. I'm wondering what the general view on them is, to keep or not to keep. These are the three options, as I see it, and I was wondering what other project members think: What would be the preferred option? Calistemon (talk) 00:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * A: Leave them out altogether.
 * B: Update them and return them to the articles.
 * C: Create a separate article for them, like I did for the Fußball-Bayernliga, in the form of List of clubs in the Fußball-Bayernliga.


 * If being retained in some form, it would definitely be useful if the columns were sortable. But with that being said... I think the league articles are better off without them. These tables are just too huge to be handled properly, in both informational and visual aspects. --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 01:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've made the club column sortable on the later versions, even so it will only sort by prefix (1. FC, etc) rather then by city, unless one uses the sortname template. To make the individual season columns sortable means to widen the table and make it hard to read on small screens like my laptop. Calistemon (talk) 01:32, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

A link for regulations to possible licensing-related restructurations...
...can be found here, since it is more than likely that at least the 2011–12 3rd Liga season will be affected by such events so that we will have the need to quote something along these lines... --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 10:49, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Thomas Müller
Thomas Müller still resides at Thomas Müller (footballer). A move to 'Thomas Müller' is long overdue as 99% of the traffic goes to the footballer (according to the page view statistics). The actual content of 'Thomas Müller' should thus be moved to 'Thomas Müller (disambiguation)'. What I don't know is, what is the right way to do it? Request on the Move Request page?
 * Yep, I would take it to WP:RM in case the move is contested. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

New category: Sports clubs banned by the Nazis
I've started a new category for all the clubs banned by the Nazis during the Third Reich, its under Category:Sports clubs banned by the Nazis. Calistemon (talk) 13:03, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

What is the purpose of Template:Fußball-Bundesliga?
I just stumbled over the Template:Fußball-Bundesliga, which is actually not used (excepte for one article, which I removed it from) and is a combination of Template:Fußball-Bundesliga seasons and Template:Bundesliga teamlist. Has anybody got any idea what the thought behind this template is/was? It seems rather a waste of the most straight forward template name for Fußball-Bundesliga-related stuff to leave it "laying" around like that. Calistemon (talk) 14:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the idea behind it probably was to save time. "If your adding two templates to the end of a large group of articles, why not make them a single template?" being the rationale. Some leagues have gone so far as to combine the season and teamlist templates into one. That being said, I agree entirely that this template doesn't serve much purpose. Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:49, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've done a crude rework on the template, losely modeled on the Template:Premier League, and added it to a few articles. Further improvements are welcome. Calistemon (talk) 12:44, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

A riddle
Here is a little riddle for the German football experts: Klaus Augenthaler spend his entire senior career with FC Bayern Munich, never played for another club in that time. Yet, he made his debut in a senior competition against Bayern! How is that possible? Can anybody guess? Calistemon (talk) 12:06, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Against Bayern Hof? Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:20, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe he played for the reserves against the seniors in the cup? ArtVandelay13 (talk) 14:52, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * What about Bayern Alzenau? -Lemmy- (talk) 16:04, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * ArtVandelay won first price (not sure what that is), Augenthaler played in the reserve team in a 1976-77 quarter final cup tie! Rather unusual, I thought.Calistemon (talk) 16:40, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

New Eintracht Frankfurt kit 2011/12
Hi, fellows. I have requested on several threads if anyone could create the two new Eintracht Frankfurt shirts as a shirt kit but I couldn't get any help. Unfortunately, I'm not able to create by myself. Could one of you guys advise me how to get help? It would be very appreciated! Pictures: http://www.eintracht.de/aktuell/bilder/368/ :-) Cheers! -Lemmy- (talk) 16:03, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

German football championship season articles
A user has created the long-overdue articles on the individual seasons of the German football championship. However, he has named them, as an example, 1931–32 German football championship rather then leaving them on the previously used title 1932 German football championship. I think, this is not quite correct, as the championships as such were not played over both years. A similar example for such a case would be the Stanley Cup playoffs, which only carry the year they were played in (example: 2011 Stanley Cup playoffs) in their name, with the league season (2010–11 NHL season) being a separate article. Should the articles be moved? Calistemon (talk) 15:59, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Also see here where I've asked the same question. Also notified the user... Madcynic (talk) 16:02, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * You won't get very far with the user, his workmanship is pretty poor, just take a look at the templates he has created, like Template:1902–03 in European football (UEFA), which claims that there was a 1902–03 FDGB-Pokal! As to the above subject, I had a quick look at the DFB website under Deutsche Meister, and it uses the 19xx/xx format. There may not be enough support from reliable sources for a move. Calistemon (talk) 16:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * As for the templates – just fix them as soon as we have agreed on a naming format for the respective articles. And while we're at it... Hardy Grüne also includes the national championship round into the chapter of its respective season (xxxx–xy). If we should not agree to having two separate articles for the regional qualification and national championship rounds, expansion of the current articles would do as well. --Soccer-holicI hear voices in my head... 18:02, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Definetly separation, even if only for the sake of keeping articles at a resonable size. Calistemon (talk) 18:28, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Eszett
Is there a consensus on whether this should be used in the names of German players? I recently created an article for Alfred Preißler, but this has since been moved to Alfred Preissler, with the user citing naming conventions. However, the first well known example I can think of – Uli Hoeneß – retains the letter. Is this just a never ending debate, or is this there a definitive rule we should follow? J Mo 101 (talk) 12:10, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I asked this question half a year ago at WT:FOOTY: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 50. --Jaellee (talk) 17:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * It's a never-ending debate and there is no definitive rule. Madcynic (talk) 17:10, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Template:2. Bundesliga
Seemingly unnoticed by everybody, the Template:2. Bundesliga was stripped of all its former clubs a little while ago. I've reverted the edit as it left a template with just the current clubs in articles on clubs who haven't played in the 2nd Bundesliga for decades. It seems to be common practice to have former clubs in this kind of league templates, for a similar example see Template:Football League Championship. Calistemon (talk) 23:06, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I've also split the former teams into three distinguished groups just to make the template less bulky. They could, alternativly, also be split by decades. Calistemon (talk) 23:25, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Good eye. Wiggy! (talk) 23:31, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Project to task force
Since a few hours ago, our four year old ad quite active project has become a task force only. Unfortunatly, this project was not consulted on the move, it was impossed on us by higher authorities. Calistemon (talk) 23:58, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It seems to me that you think being a task force is a bad thing. In effect, all it means is that some of the more central stuff, such as article assessment, is carried out by a parent project. You can still set the importance of individual articles, thanks to the functionality of Template:WikiProject Football, and you were already using WP:FOOTY's quality assessment scale, so nothing has changed there. In all honesty, the only thing that has really changed is the title of this group, which now reflects solidarity with WP:FOOTY. If we could have the page at WikiProject Germany/Football task force as well, we would, but we'll just have to make do with a redirect. That said, you could just revert the move and we can have a long, drawn out discussion about it, but instead, why don't we discuss whether or not it's worth moving it back? – PeeJay 00:15, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It would have been good if a choice was offered before the fact rather then after. Personally, I would like to remain a project rather then a task force, for two resons:
 * A We are associated with both WikiProject Football as well as WikiProject Germany and shouldn't just be a task force of either or both.
 * B We are large and active enough to be a project. We were a project, after all and the decision on our future should be ours, not that of another project, however closely related. Calistemon (talk) 00:33, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Let me interject my opinion here as well. No project should be telling another project they are going to be a task force or subproject if they don't want too. You are free to create a separate task force to cover these articles in addition but you can't go around gobbling up the other projects without their consent. --Kumioko (talk) 01:54, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * There is a further discussion on the subject at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council. Calistemon (talk) 09:14, 31 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Guys, I have a speedy category rename request waiting based on the outcome of this discussion, so can we please come to a resolution soon? We can't keep the CfR-speedy waiting forever! – PeeJay 00:06, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
 * As unfortunatley no further input has been provided by the other project members, I would say go with the WikiProject Football‎ decision. It is obviously not a subject that generates a lot of interest. Resonable amount of time was provided to object to the move and as I'm the only project member objecting it is proberbly not a sufficent majority to overturn the WikiProject Football‎ decision. Calistemon (talk) 00:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Pageview stats
After a recent request, I added WikiProject German football to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at WikiProject German football/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 22:16, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

List of association football clubs with multiple consecutive promotions or relegations
I don't know if anybody is interested in a list like that but I've started a List of association football clubs with multiple consecutive promotions or relegations under User:Calistemon/List of association football clubs with multiple consecutive promotions or relegations for my personal record-keeping. Not sure if it ever gets off its feet to become an article, but if anybody stumbles over a club that qualifies, feel free to add it! Calistemon (talk) 12:52, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds interesting. I'll certainly help expand it, when I have some time. Sir Sputnik (talk) 12:58, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've set the inclusion parameter for promotions to three, which I think is a resonable figure. For the other two sub-sections, I'm not so sure. Calistemon (talk) 13:15, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

List of Fussball-Bundesliga clubs eliminated from the DFB-Pokal by amateur sides
Can anybody think of a sorter name for this new article, List of Fussball-Bundesliga clubs eliminated from the DFB-Pokal by amateur sides? Calistemon (talk) 07:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Move request
I placed a move request discussion on the Oberliga (football)‎, Bezirksoberliga‎, Landesliga‎, Bezirksklasse‎, Kreisklasse‎, Kreisliga‎ and Verbandsliga‎ articles with the objective to move them all to an article name with Fußball- as its prefix, like Fußball-Oberliga. This would bring them in line with articles like Fußball-Bundesliga and provide the necessary disambiguation currently missing as all this leagues exit in other German sports as well. Any ojections to this proposal? Calistemon (talk) 12:42, 11 December 2011 (UTC)