Wikipedia talk:WikiProject France/Paris/Archive 2

Spending document
I found this on the City of Paris site: http://www.paris.fr/portail/viewmultimediadocument?multimediadocument-id=70099

The english document describes some expenditures that affected certain Paris neighborhoods. It could be a useful document. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:38, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

English terms for schools
The City of Paris, according to "Children & families.", uses "nursery school" and "primary school" to refer to a maternelle and a primaire in English. For those of you that edit the Spanish Wikipedia, "Hijos y familias." uses the words "infantil," "elemental," "colegio," y "instituto." WhisperToMe (talk) 18:41, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

And Paris uses "High school" and "Sixth form college" for colleges and lycees, respectively. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:05, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

The Grand Palais article
Hello, I am Jim856796. The Grand Palais article is only a stub-class article on the English Wikipedia, but the French and Spanish versions have much more coverage than the English version. In May of 2010, I began expanding this article with text translated from the corresponding article at the Spanish Wikipedia. Then another user, Awien, began deleting some text from the article and using text translated from the French Wikipedia to expand the article. I kept insisting that the Spanish version of the article has attained FA status and the French version has not attained GA or FA status and it's best to use a feature article on a foreign language Wikipedia for the best translation to expand an article of the English Wikipedia that has only stub- or start-class status (or sometimes B- or C-class status). Next, I proceeded to translate the rest of the Spanish version into the English version. I started to wait for somebody to clean up the translation, but Awien wiped it out altogether, since Wikipedia does not accept machine translations per a certain policy. I attempted to clean up another machine-translated paragraph, but Awien deleted that, too. Soon we were on the verge of starting an edit war. I wanted to improve the Grand Palais article by expanding it, but I didn't want to engage in edit warfare at the same time. I need the help of anyone involved in this WikiProject who is fluent in English, French, and Spanish to do something about this conflict and expand this article themselves. Jim856796 (talk) 12:50, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Asian quarters of Paris
fr:Quartier asiatique de Paris needs an English article WhisperToMe (talk) 06:46, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Getting from Paris/Orly to Paris/Charles de Gaulle
I'm asking this question here because I was advised to at the Miscellaneous Reference Desk. On Saturday 10 September I have a flight from Nice to Helsinki via Paris. However, the flight from Nice arrives at Paris/Orly and the flight to Helsinki leaves from Paris/Charles de Gaulle. I have three hours between the flights. How can I get from Paris/Orly to Paris/Charles de Gaulle in that time? J I P &#124; Talk 17:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * There are several ways :
 * By coach
 * By train (RER): take orlyval till Antony ] then RER B till Charles de Gaulle . The last stop is at Terminal 2, the one before that goes to Terminal 1 & 3.
 * By taxi. It's quite expansive and I don't recommend it unless you're in a hurry.
 * Have a good trip! Comte0 (talk) 21:14, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

New member introduction: Paris entertainment venues
I have just joined this task force. I am basically a music editor, but I am interested in the history of Parisian entertainment venues. I am working on the List of theatres and entertainment venues in Paris and List of former or demolished entertainment venues in Paris as well as individual theatre articles. Best regards. -- Klein zach  02:22, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Welcome! You might be interested by the list of protected monuments of the Projet:Monuments Historiques from the French wikipedia. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 08:56, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Those lists look very interesting. -- Klein zach  14:35, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

More Paris entertainment venue articles
Here is a list of some other articles we have started or are developing;


 * Alhambra (Paris)
 * Théâtre de l'Athénée
 * Boulevard du Crime (not a theatre but closely related)
 * Café de la Gare
 * La Cigale
 * Théâtre de l'Atelier
 * Théâtre Déjazet
 * Théâtre de la Gaîté (boulevard du Temple)
 * Théâtre de la Gaîté (rue Papin)
 * La Gaîté Lyrique
 * Théâtre de la Gaîté-Montparnasse
 * Théâtre Montparnasse
 * Théâtre national de Chaillot
 * Théâtre national de la Colline
 * Théâtre Verlaine

-- Klein zach  05:46, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I created WikiProject_France/Paris/Theatres using a script to patrol fr:Catégorie:Salle de spectacle de Paris. There are 601 articles in that category and its subcategories, of which 207 are made of people working at the opéra de Paris. You might want to rework WikiProject_France/Paris to include that link. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 01:09, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, thank you. At first I thought it was a list of French Wikipedia articles. Now I realize it is a list of both French and English. I hope you won't mind if I edit it to be easier for English Wikipedia editors to understand. Regarding reworking "WikiProject_France/Paris to include that link" presumably you mean making it more accessible? Right? -- Klein  zach  03:47, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, you're welcome to make it easier to understand. As for WikiProject_France/Paris, it's still actually the old wikiproject:streets of Paris under a different name, and I was just thinking it's time to reflect the new direction you are taking. But that's not an important matter... Regards, Comte0 (talk) 07:10, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Théâtre de l'Ambigu-Comique
This article on the Théâtre de l'Ambigu-Comique covers the theatre in the boulevard du Temple (1769-1827), and the theatre of the same name on the boulevard Saint-Martin (?-1966). I am thinking of splitting into two articles each based on one single location. Any opinions? -- Klein zach  13:34, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The French & English articles both say it's the same theatre, rebuilt elsewhere after having burnt. Google Books confirms this, so I don't think it's a good idea. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 00:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the two theatres were on different sites, but OK I'll leave it as one article for the present. I've been working on the English version. There are problems with the French article — for example it has a picture of the wrong theatre in the infobox. The connection between the two theatres could be clarified. Who exactly built the second theatre? (I had problems scrolling the ‪'Bibliothèque dramatique de M. de Soleinne'‬ on Google books). -- Klein zach  03:30, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * That reference is unclear on who built it. Here is another one with the answer: Jacques Ignace Hittorff and Jean-François-Joseph Lecointe. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 07:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hittorff and Lecointe were the architects, that's already in the article. What I meant to ask — and I should have been clearer — was who paid for it, since we are trying to confirm the connection between the two theatres. Thanks. -- Klein zach  22:51, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The sources use the passive tense ("the theatre was rebuilt" instead of "Mr X rebuilt the theatre"). Since they say (for example here) it was the same theatre, I don't think it's worth bothering with that any more. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 08:07, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Le Boeuf sur le Toit
Note: Le Boeuf sur le Toit, is a surrealist ballet but also the name of a the former cabaret in Paris, founded in 1921 at 28, rue Boissy d'Anglas. In fact, the ballet article mentions it, calling it "a celebrated Parisian cabaret-bar". There is a French article about the cabaret here
 * The ballet is primary, so the cabaret would be Le Boeuf sur le Toit (cabaret) following the capitalization evidently preferred by the cabaret itself (on their website http://www.boeufsurletoit.com/). The capitalization of the ballet follows the WP:CM guidelines. -- Klein zach  23:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am developing the article Le Boeuf sur le Toit (cabaret). A really interesting and important cabaret! The cabaret still exists but has evidently become a trendy upscale restaurant cafe. Should it be on the List of theatres and entertainment venues in Paris?  Article is about half done.  You can monitor progress here.  Feel free to comment. —Foobarnix (talk) 01:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's obviously on the edge as far as the list goes. There are others in this category. Maybe it should go in if it's sufficiently historic? -- Klein zach  15:39, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You are right. Even though people like Artur Rubenstein, Marianne Oswald, and Jean Wiener entertained there, and jazz musicians playing Gerschwin or Cole Porter could be heard after hours, le Boeuf was not really a theatre.  But it was certainly something!  I am not sure how it fits into the Paris project.  Any advice? —Foobarnix (talk) 19:13, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The criteria is 'entertainment venue' not theatre. This is obviously historic so let's include it. -- Klein zach  02:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

The article Le Boeuf sur le Toit (cabaret) is now done —Foobarnix (talk) 19:42, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Excellent! -- Klein zach  06:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Translations from the French?
I wonder if anyone knows how we can request help with translations? None of us have high level French — certainly not me! It would speed everything up considerably if someone could help us by doing rough translations from selected French wiki articles. Thank you! -- Klein zach  15:47, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not very active these days, but I'm French and always happy to help. I'm not a translator though, and only articles from wp:fr that have references are worth the effort. --Anneyh (talk) 20:37, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * We can do the referencing. We are used to doing that for music articles. Théâtre des Délassements-Comiques is a short one. I don't know whether you would like to start with that? Thanks. -- Klein  zach  02:16, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above remark. I have sometimes had to supply all the citations for translated French articles.  Much more important is whether the French article is well written and really does contain fairly accurate information. —Foobarnix (talk) 09:06, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ditto. I'm not very active and I'm French too. I can translate fr:Théâtre des Délassements-Comiques if nobody's available, though. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 06:19, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's give Anneyh first refusal on fr:Théâtre des Délassements-Comiques.  Comte0 my request for you: the important concert hall Le Divan du Monde . -- Klein  zach  23:05, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅, but some proofreading would be welcome. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 09:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Looks very good. -- Klein zach  13:14, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Here are other ones we need: fr:Théâtre Le Ranelagh and fr:Théâtre Édouard VII. Thanks. -- Klein zach  13:19, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've also translated one myself: Artistic-Athévains. The French article was fairly minimal. Contributions appreciated! -- Klein zach  03:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've started Théâtre des Délassements-Comiques. More worked needed on it, meanwhile it seems we have lost our French translators . . . . -- Klein  zach  00:37, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Former theatres in Paris
I have been bumping into a lot of former theatre names in my research I do not know how important any of them are. Any ideas? —Foobarnix (talk) 01:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

These former theatres include:
 * Théâtre des Funambules
 * Perhaps the Funambules should be added to List of former or demolished entertainment venues in Paris. Here are some links to it. The Concise Oxford Companion to the Theatre:  Théâtre des Funambules and MSN Encarta: Théâtre des Funambules
 * Yes, I've added it to the list. -- Klein zach  02:46, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've now started the article. -- Klein zach  05:44, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Théâtre des Associés
 * Théâtre de l'Ambigu turns out to be Théâtre de l'Ambigu-Comique
 * Théâtre des Pygmées
 * Petit-Lazare
 * Alhambra-Maurice Chevalier
 * This one is really complicated. I am currently developing the article (about 1/3 done.) If you wish, you are welcome to comment, interfere, and monitor progress here --Foobarnix (talk) 01:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Théâtre des Délassements-Comiques (but Délassements-Comiques redirects to Théâtre des Nouveautés)
 * The French article is here. It's an authentic former theatre. The redirect can simply be changed to the new article. -- Klein zach  23:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Since this isn't my area of knowledge, I asked on the French Village pump. Regards, Comte0 (talk) 06:36, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 * They evidently thought they should concentrate on developing the French articles — not without reason! -- Klein zach  04:23, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 *  after a long hiatus, I'll try to get back to this sometime next month, starting some of the missing articles. -- Klein zach  23:04, 25 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Théâtre des Deux Ânes Here is a nice link to this very interesting venue - Paris Nightlife--Foobarnix (talk) 00:42, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Alhambra-Maurice Chevalier
Hi Comte Would you be willing to take a look at my work so far on Alhambra-Maurice Chevalier at my private work page here. I have already created a separate article called Alhambra (Paris). Both articles come from Alhambra (Paris) in French Wikipedia. This translation has been particularly difficult. I have had to guess about some of the historical facts. Any comments you can make would be appreciated. You can comment on my talk page or here —Foobarnix (talk) 09:06, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
 *  . . . after a long hiatus. I'll try to have a look at this next month. -- Klein zach  23:02, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Kleinzach So glad that you might be looking at this!  I worked on it for a long time and got bogged down and no longer able to trust my translation.  (In the meantime, I have been very busy on Charlotte related Wikipedia projects.)  Let me know how I can help.--Foobarnix (talk) 18:42, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

School lists
Here are lists of schools:
 * Maternelle: http://equipements.paris.fr/?tid=39
 * Primary: http://equipements.paris.fr/?tid=41
 * "High school" (Collège): http://www.paris.fr/pratique/colleges-lycees/liste-des-colleges/p7907
 * Sixth form colleges (Lycée): http://www.paris.fr/pratique/education-cours-pour-adultes/colleges-lycees/liste-des-lycees/rub_120_stand_6173_port_4217
 * All schools by arrondissement: http://www.ac-paris.fr/portail/jcms/p2_72695/portail-application-etablissements

It would make sense listing all schools in some arrondissements (ones with low populations), and in particular neighborhoods.

If you have over 10 schools per type, I wouldn't list it for that arrondissement. For the 13th and 18-20th arrondissements I wouldn't list any schools at least until lycee level.

For the 15th arrondissement, I'm not sure if it makes sense to list any schools since it has 12 public lycees.

WhisperToMe (talk) 17:45, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Lycée Jean-Baptiste Lulli
It seems like Lycée Jean-Baptiste Lulli(y), Paris 2e, isn't open anymore. When did it close? WhisperToMe (talk) 15:06, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Library names in English
According to http://www.paris.fr/viewmultimediadocument?multimediadocument-id=100471 The convention is "Library (name)" as in "Library Claude Lévi-Strauss" WhisperToMe (talk) 09:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)