Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Germany/Archive 12

Battle of Höchst
I just translated the article for en-wiki. Please check it for correct English. --Eva K. is evil 14:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Nice job Eva. I revised a few things, and added some fact and citation templates for the military folks, when they get to it.  --Auntieruth55 (talk) 13:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Pope Benedict XVI GAR notice
Pope Benedict XVI has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 00:43, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Question about incorporating translations of German articles
There's a suggestion on the Walther Rathenau Talk page, that translated text from the German article be incorporated into the English article. The German article looks excellent and could contribute to a grade-A article in English. It looks well-sourced, but of course the sources are in German. I think there's a Wikipedia guideline or policy, that sources have to be in the language of the article. Does this make the German footnotes problematic if brought over to the English article? Also, when incorporating a translated article, is there a standard template for referencing the original article? J M Rice (talk) 22:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes there is de for example. the main issue with translation in GDFL attribution so it might be wise to link in the history to the version and history of the translated article. Personally I'd rather see someone take those German sources and spin fresh content from them without the need of translating from an article. I find this would created a better version. But we don't live in an ideal world - I know. Agathoclea (talk) 23:35, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:NONENG - English-language sources are preferred if available, but not obligatory otherwise. If the German-language sources are the best ones available, use them. Knepflerle (talk) 12:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help. I'll just carry over the German sources first, then replace them as I can.  I think Rathenau is an important subject and deserves as good an English article as the German version appears to be. J M Rice (talk) 12:04, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Largest Fair on the Rhine
I pulled this one out of the db-spam speedy deletion queue. It looks to me like a direct translation of Größte Kirmes am Rhein. I see the point of the tagger's advert; words like "thrilling" are not the best choice here, and without any references, it's hard to know how to interpret the claims. I'll watchlist this for a few days. - Dank (push to talk) 21:10, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Gelbensande
Hi,

the German article has improved a lot since it was translated to en.wp. Maybe someone can have a look on Gelbensande and translate improved parts. -- ReneRomann (talk) 23:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Albert Einstein
...is at peer review. Help get it back to FA. Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

GAR High German consonant shift
Hi! I just initiated a Good Article Reassessment for High German consonant shift. The article lacks in-line citations and will have to be demoted to B class if this isn't dealt with. G Purevdorj (talk) 23:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

GA reassessment of The CIA and September 11 (book)
I have conducted a reassessment of this article for the GA Sweeps process and have found one minor concern which needs addressing. You can find the review at Talk:The CIA and September 11 (book)/GA1. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 21:13, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Assessment for A or FA?
I've reworked the Unification of Germany article considerably over the past 6 weeks, and it has passed GA review, and been promoted. What is the next step for it? I've made a couple of tweaks since the GA assessment, and I think it's ready for A or FA assessment. Instructions say to ask at the project page, and links brought me here, so I'm asking.:) --Auntieruth55 (talk) 19:13, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't currently have a formal A-class review process. So anybody can informally review what they think of your article, and I guess if two or three people agree it should be called A-class, it can be called A-class. Anybody who wants to formalize this into a process is welcome to do so. Kusma (talk) 06:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Naming of district categories
Hi folks. We currently have district categories with 2 different naming conventions: some like Category:Gifhorn (district) with brackets like the main article and some without e.g. Category:Verden district. Which should we prefer... or does no-one care. I have a slight preference for the latter (no brackets) but can live with either - I just need to know before any further expansion takes place. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Place name convention
There is a question posed on the Conventions talk page about place naming which some may have missed. In essence how do we solve the anomalous naming of e.g. Hassel, Lower Saxony and Hassel (Bergen) which also happens to be in Lower Saxony? See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Germany/Conventions. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have made the change, and also edited Template:Cities and towns in Nienburg (district) and Hassel. There are however a number of pages still referencing Hassel, Lower Saxony, these need to be checked and edited.Traveler100 (talk) 05:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Please do not do that again (changing page titles by cut and paste), but use the "move" button. Discussion over at the conventions page is not finished, and would benefit from more people other than just Bermicourt and me. Kusma (talk) 06:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * how to you do a move if the target name already exists? In this case the redirect was in the other direction. Sorry, I also did not see any need for discussion, was moving the page to be in line with the German wiki page naming. Traveler100 (talk) 06:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If the target name exists and is a redirect to the other name with no other page history, the move just works. Otherwise, you need an admin (for example yours truly) to do the move for you. I have now done so (and anybody can still reverse the move, as the other page has only one entry in its history, the redirect I just created). Kusma (talk) 07:39, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

German pin maps
Hi. I noticed we have some new locators like File:Schleswig-Holstein location map.svg. What would you say about using regional pin locators in the infoboxes?

I've created the maps, see Category:Germany location map templates. Perhaps we could reprogramme the infobox to read the state e.g Bavaria and automatically use Template:Location map Germany Bavaria.svg etc. I think better detail is given on regional maps although the national map is very useful but you can see where it is nationally anywway when you click on the globe. Maybe two pin maps would bloat the box but maybe we could have them at a size where they coexist alongside each other I dunno. I definately think using the regional maps would be an improvement though. What do you think?

Please let me know at Template talk:Infobox German location. Thanks.

Dr. Blofeld      White cat 11:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality, opinions needed
There is a discussion going on in the article about German Pirate Party (talk page). It looks like consensus can not be achieved. Would be nice if someone can have a look, share his point of view and maybe explain the situation in Germany. Thanks. - 83.254.210.47 (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Astrid Kirchherr
I have reassessed the above article and found a few concerns which are at Talk:Astrid Kirchherr/GA1. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:15, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Portal for the Lüneburg Heath region
Having translated and expanded numerous articles on the Lüneburg Heath region, I have created a portal at Portal:Lüneburg Heath to draw them together. The format's quite easy to use and could be employed to generate other portals. Happy browsing! Bermicourt (talk) 17:16, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Is someone in Uetersen spamming localized Wikis?
Take a look at the languages for the article on Uetersen. It has 220 entries in different languages, basically every active Wiki, right down to the 100+ article ones (dv:Uetersen, af:Uetersen, tet:Uetersen, mzn:Uetersen).

This is more localized versions than the articles for Germany, Berlin and Jesus. Can some undo the spam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.107.0.73 (talk) 07:32, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * (I turned your references xlinks into interwikis, hope you don't mind) Most of these articles are poor (as the original author doesn't speak any of the languages), but I think this is a problem for the individual Wikipedias to deal with. Feel free to nominate any of them for deletion if they don't meet the local Wikipedia's standards (whatever those are). It is pretty funny to see that all of these articles just have two or three edits by humans plus 150 or so silly interwiki bot edits. But actually, for many of the smaller Wikis, the Uetersen article is no worse than the average article you get when you hit Special:Random. Probably that just means that the smaller Wikipedias need to attract more editors or die. Kusma (talk) 08:45, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Triumph of the Will for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.  YellowMonkey  ( cricket calendar poll! ) paid editing=POV 15:15, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Translation of Aenne Burda.
The Aenne Burda and it's related articles (Hubert Burda Media, Hubert Burda) needs urgent translation, July 28 is Aenne Burda's 100th birthday and I want expand her article for that day. I have requested for translation since march but nothing happen. can someone please help in expanding this alticle with translating from de.wikipedia (de:Aenne_Burda), or guid me how I can request for Speedy-Translate!  ■ MMXX  talk  04:17, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Blitzkrieg FAR
nominated Blitzkrieg for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. --Peter Andersen (talk) 06:51, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Geograph Germany
Following the success of the Geograph project, a similar project has been launched covering Germany. Photographs are Creative Commons 2.0 licenced and thus suitable for use on Wikipedia. Mjroots (talk) 08:41, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Politicians
There was recently a mass AFD for German politician stubs, see Articles for deletion/Claus Peter Poppe (most were deleted, an action that I strongly supported). Almost all of these should be recreated with proper sources and references, and some of the remaining still need to be expanded. See User:Juliancolton/List or User:Ched Davis/Julian-list. Some of these people are Landtag representatives, other as notable as e.g. Jens Beutel, the lord mayor of Mainz. Kusma (talk) 12:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
 * At the very least, somebody could tag the talk pages of the non-deleted ones with our project template. Kusma (talk) 12:19, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Please can people help expand and save the articles in List of German Christian Democratic Union politicians. I've started ploughing through A but I need your help!!! Dr. Blofeld       White cat 18:45, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you point us to some juicy redlinks too? Filling red links is so much more satisfying than working on stubs. Kusma (talk) 12:13, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Unification of Germany
okay, understanding that this article was a high priority, I rewrote it, added citations, etc. It is lengthy, but well done, and correct. It has GA status now, and it was just turned down for FA status because not enough people had read it and voted on it. I publicized its FA nomination on the article assessment page, but still, no readers/voters. I understand we're all busy. So....if I put this article up again, will someone (several people) read it? Auntieruth55 (talk) 19:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks to all who helped review the article. It was promoted yesterday. Auntieruth55 (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject TRANSWIKI
You are all invited to join WikiProject TRANSWIKI and join the German language transwiki project. The aim is to draw up a full directory of missing articles from German wikipedia and build a team of translators to work at bridging the gaps in knowledge and to improve existing articles by translation. We need your help, so if there are any German speakers here please join up as your language skills are crucial. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 17:04, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Nomination for Featured Article German Unification
German Unification is nominated for Featured Article. it was not promoted the last time because very few people wanted to read it. It is lengthy, but it gives broad coverage to a complicated issue. Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks to all who helped review the article. It was promoted yesterday. Auntieruth55 (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Eduard Seler & Cäcilie Seler-Sachs
Grüssgott! I recently added some lines (in WP:en) to "Eduard Seler" (1900 german pioneer of studies on the Aztecs), mainly to underline that his wife Cäcilie was of great help to him, in their study as well as on the field. I think I made an error while quoting the 2009 documentary film by Saskia Wishkeit : is the correct title "Der geheimlich codex den Aztecs" (The secret code of the Aztecs) ? Here nobody speaks fluent german, so I can't check. Thanks a lot for your answerArapaima (talk) 07:04, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The correct German name is "Der geheime Code der Azteken"; and it's "ein Aufklärungsfilm", not "eine". Better would be the term "eine Dokumentation". Greetings, Lost Boy (talk) 07:16, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * see also "Aufklärungsfilm". Yaan (talk) 10:38, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Tchibo at AFD
Articles for deletion/Tchibo. Rationale seems ludicrous, but the article is indeed in poor state. NVO (talk) 17:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. I have carried out an initial revision to try and improve it a littl, but it could do with some references. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:34, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I have added some citations. The references given contain more information that could be used to add information or provide more footnotes.--Boson (talk) 09:52, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't see the rationale, but I can't imagine a legitimate one for deleting Tchibo. the page needs work, yes.  I've removed some of the Germanisms, and fixed a couple of sentences.  I also changed the rating to start class, because at this point it's more than a stub, given its references and the scope of the material.  It has expanded into the US market, btw, because Tchibo coffee is available in Pennsylvania. I'm not sure it's anywhere else.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:25, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


 * oh, and a thousand million is a billion, right? that many zeros confuses me.  Milliarden=billion. I changed it to a billion. If I'm not correct, just change it back.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:26, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Hermann Detzner open for A class in MHWP
The article Hermann Detzner is nominated for Military history WP A class.  PROMOTED'''Auntieruth55 (talk) 21:27, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

FAR of Invasion of Poland (1939)
I have nominated Invasion of Poland (1939) for Featured article review due to a number of, hopefully, resolvable issues that exist in the article. --Labattblueboy (talk) 02:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

The first theatre and the first actors
Hello! I am interested in theatre history, and I hope some one can answer my question. I wonder: which was the first permanent theatre, with proffesional actors of both genders, in Germany? I am also interested in the first known actor and actress, or the most famous actor and actress, of that theatre's early years. I hope someone can answer my question. I would be gratefull if you could answer on my talk page. Regards--Aciram (talk) 09:58, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

mythology stubs
I've recently assessed a series of stubs on mythological characters in Wendish, Slavic, etc. mythology. These tend to be one or two liners. Isn't there a better place for these? See: The last is the protector of a couple of towns. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to place it in that, and to make a dictionary type list of the characters? It looks like these are just being transferred from a dictionary into an article. The second could be in an article on goddesses of the dead, or some such type. Auntieruth55 (talk) 14:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * skrzak
 * Żywie
 * Karewit

Hermann Detzner nominated for Featured Article
I've nominated Hermann Detzner for featured article candidate. This article started life as a translated stub from the German wikipedia page (a request posted for a translation). It has undergone peer review, and recently the Military History project promoted it to A class. It is also a Good Article. Please feel free to read and comment! Auntieruth55 (talk) 18:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The article was promoted earlier this week. Thanks to all for reading/commenting.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 16:44, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Requested move of World War II evacuation and expulsion articles
I recently began a centralized discussion for the renaming of population transfer or forced migrations relating to WWII. Users in this area have shown interest in the topic in the past so I wanted to bring the discussion at Talk:World_War_II_evacuation_and_expulsion to your attention. --Labattblueboy (talk) 13:24, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Lead Photo for Berlin
We seem to be having some trouble choosing which photo to use for the lead image for the Berlin article. See the discussion here. Basically one group feels that a photo from 2006 is more artistically pleasing. The other group feels that since the 2006 photo shows the Palace of the Republic, it is out of date and should be replaced with a photo from 2009. Please provide further input. Thanks! imars (talk) 19:41, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Denzlingen
I know it's only of low importance, but I added sources to the Denzlingen article and removed the citation-needed tag. The sources are German, but you won't find any English sources for small German towns except that they exist. And even that's hard for some towns. --Blutkoete (talk) 11:49, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Added article to WIkiProject
Not a new article, but for some bizarre unknown reason currywurst was not part of WikiProject Germany!!! This unfortunate oversight has now been corrected. It needs a quality and importance rating. 59.167.59.240 (talk) 08:41, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not bizarre or unknown. If nobody add a tag, the project doesn't know about it. Thanks for tagging. Sebastian scha. (talk) 11:54, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Hamburg portal
I'm proud to announce the launch of the brand new, very interesting, great structured and really red Portal:Hamburg for the city of Hamburg and all related articles.

If you have suggestions, remarks or even want to help, please do so. Maybe we could start a Hamburg task force under the scope (and protection) of this project? Please feel free to contact me or post here. Thanks, cheers and happy editing. Sebastian scha. (talk) 10:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Wow! Very red indeed! But also very cool! My focus is on the Portal:Lüneburg Heath area, but they are close so we may find ourselves collaborating even more. E.g. I was happy to do the Harburg Hills article... Gruß. --Bermicourt (talk) 16:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

2009 Lößnitzgrundbahn head-on collision
I've created the 2009 Lößnitzgrundbahn head-on collision article. I've done my best with the limited German (de-½) I have. German speaking editors will probably be able to find more sources to expand the article. Mjroots (talk) 18:40, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Frankfurt Stadtteil
The proposed deletion/replacement of Infobox Frankfurt Stadtteil template is being discussed here. Markussep Talk 09:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * If noone objects I will replace the present infoboxes for Stadtteile of Frankfurt with Infobox German location (see User:Markussep/sandbox as a sample, compare the present article Heddernheim (Frankfurt am Main)). I will move information that can't be used in the new infobox to the text. Markussep Talk 09:10, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I really support this! Sebastian scha. (talk) 10:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Inner German border
Over the last few months I've been carrying out a sort of one-man Wikiproject on the end of the Cold War - next month is the 20th anniversary of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the opening of the border between the two Germanies. As well as carrying out a great deal of research, I went to Germany and cycled nearly the full length of the former border, taking a large number of photographs and doing a lot of on-the-ground research over the course of several weeks. I've rewritten and greatly expanded the inner German border article and will be creating and expanding various other related articles in the coming weeks. I'm aiming to get the article up to Featured Article standard, but as a first step I'd appreciate it if it could be peer reviewed and reassessed. -- ChrisO (talk) 14:48, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Chris, this is a superb article. I have read it over, made a couple of minor copy edits, and rated it as B.  There is no reason why you could not take this as FA candidate, with some small tweaking.  First, you'll need to do the wikistuff that the FA people want: add the non-breaking space, the ndash, the mdash, etc., where appropriate.  This is minor and easy to do.  Second, you should insert alt text in the images: this is a relatively new FA requirement, and I'm not sure how it works with gallery images.  Third, and this is probably more time consuming, since this is an english wikipedia, we should have the names in English, with the (German parenthetical).  I did this in a few places, but I'll leave it to you for the rest of it.  Fourth, you need to go through your excellent text once more (at least), and smooth out the excess of verbs:  would have had to go, that sort of thing. Not that specific example, but you have a lot of complex verb use, and lengthy sentences that can be streamlined and simplified.  Fifth: you have a couple of one or two sentence paragraphs that should either be expanded, or worked into the following paragraphs.
 * Strategically, I'd get the military history project involved in this. They are  a more active group, and much larger.  You can sk them for a B assessment as well, and then get through their A process, which should land you in a very good position for the FA process (which can be a royal pain).  Go to the project page, and post a request under assessment, for a B review, and tell them also that what you are looking to do, in terms of timing, etc.  The B review happens quickly, the A class promotion usually takes a week.  Someone there who is adept at these things (perhaps User:Parsecboy) would be able to help you identify DYK opportunities in this. I've never been good at that, but he is.
 * I will be happy to support this at A assessment in WPMH and at the FA stage. Go for it! Auntieruth55 (talk) 16:06, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much, your help and advice is much appreciated! I'll get on with making the changes that you suggest and keep you posted when we reach the A and FA assessment stages. -- ChrisO (talk) 21:35, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Remaining assessments
I dealt with the remaining assessments (unassessed articles), and the ones left are ones that I wrote or did something with, and need someone else to deal with them. Auntieruth55 (talk) 02:19, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Kreisstaedte: capitals or district centers?
Auric Goldfinger

I have noticed that in the [List of Fictional Germans]] article, Auric Goldfinger is mentioned. Goldfinger is Latvian, could someone change this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SEA-VAC (talk • contribs) 17:52, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi,

I just realized some articles use the word "capital" for German Kreisstaedte (for example Dippoldiswalde or Freiberg). Is this the correct word for those mostly rather small towns? Yaan (talk) 11:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * It's not a good translation. That's why I'm trying to bring further consistency with additions to our Conventions page. Better translations would be "county town" or "district town". The latter conforms to our convention that Kreis = "district". "Capital" is usually reserved for national or state cities which are home to the seat of government. --Bermicourt (talk) 11:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I now changed it to "administrative center" (also at Bautzen). Hope it is better? Yaan (talk) 09:45, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
 * That's better since in some cases the administrative center of a Kreis isn't part of it itself, e.g. Heidelberg isn't part of the de:Rhein-Neckar-Kreis but is its administrative center. --Matthiasb (talk) 09:40, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Transclude DYK
Maybe we should transclude the Portal DYK into the WP Germany main page and get rid if this long list? Like this:

New DYK added via edit link and old ones moved to archive page? So anybody adding their DYK have to make only 2 edits not 3?. Thanks Sebastian scha. (talk) 12:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Do we have 2 archives? I.e. one for Wikipedia Main Page DYK and one for German Portal DYK? It would be a shame not to have a record of articles that have received those distinctions. And are the criteria for a German Portal DYK as stiff as those for the main page? --Bermicourt (talk) 16:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I understood that for the Germany portal only DYK from the main page are eligible, so it's two archives for the same purpose. If at the portal everybody could enter any DYK, then we should let the system of archiving be as it is. Sebastian scha. (talk) 09:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * PS this seems to 'break' the section edit links by noeditsection. So I detranscluded it. Sebastian scha. (talk) 13:47, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Major issue over potential copyright violation on numerous WikiProject Germany articles
The following is a copy of the discussion at Berlin-Hamburg Railway which has wide ramifications for WikiProject Germany if the assertion of copyright violation is true.

This article is a "copy-and-paste" of the German article de:Berlin-Hamburger Bahn without citation of the authors as required by CC-3.0-license! a x p de Hello!  19:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

P.S.: To be even more precisely, even in German wikipedia we are forced to copy the list of authors if parts of an article are used to create a new article. It's not sufficient to just have a link to the original page's history, because you can't guarantee this list will be at that place forever! a x p de Hello!  19:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Unless I have missed something, I don't think that is right. WP:C states: The licenses Wikipedia uses grant free access to our content in the same sense that free software is licensed freely. Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed if and only if the copied version is made available on the same terms to others and acknowledgment of the authors of the Wikipedia article used is included (a link back to the article is generally thought to satisfy the attribution requirement). ...which is the purpose of the template above. --Bermicourt (talk) 22:21, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * But what do you do if the original article is moved and the redirect was suppressed (for what reason ever). That's why German wikipedia insists on having the complete lists of authors copied into the new article, saved and removed again, thus the list of authors is bound permanently to the history of the new article! a x p de  Hello!  09:18, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but rules on de wiki or other wikis are not really interesting. The here applicable rules are the wp:c guidelines, and this article is totally in line. [I don't go to the german wiki and comment on their sourcing policies (or lacking of sources).] And this talk page is not the right place to discuss your concerns. Ask at the wp:village pump or maybe even at WP:ANI or place a helpme on your talk (thats what I do, if I don't know what to do). Sebastian scha. (talk) 09:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Just a moment, we're not talking about copyrighted material of en-wikipedia! Sources of de-wikipedia has been copied to another place, therefore the German policies apply! And since this is the place of the copyright violation, I denounce this fact here as well! a x p de  Hello!  13:48, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * If true this is a major issue as there are potentially thousands of articles translated from de.Wiki, which would now have to either be deleted or have a team of people spending significant time trying to copy the histories across from the point in time that the translation(s) occurred. This is such a serious issue that I am transferring this to the German WikiProject discussion page. --Bermicourt (talk) 16:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I guess the most important task is to confirm what de.wiki actually says about translating/copying their material to other language wikis and whether en.wiki copyright is the authority or not. --Bermicourt (talk) 17:01, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I like to point you to Terms of Use:

"As an author, you agree to be attributed in any of the following fashions: a) through a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to the article or articles you contributed to, b) through a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to an alternative, stable online copy which is freely accessible, which conforms with the license, and which provides credit to the authors in a manner equivalent to the credit given on this website, or c) through a list of all authors. (Any list of authors may be filtered to exclude very small or irrelevant contributions.)"

- Terms of Use


 * and the discussion from 2008 at Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_38 and maybe we should ask at WP:RFT, but as stated above, I think it doesn't matter to the en.wiki how the de.wiki use and work with translations or translated articles. Sebastian scha. (talk) 17:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * this might also become an issue in reverse, right? There are articles on the German wiki that are translations of English wiki articles--for that matter, all the wikipedias have articles that are translations of other language wikis.  I actually don't see the problem here.  The legitimacy of the article also rests with the translator, not the editors, per see.  I'd prefer to see a copy of the original imbedded somewhere in the history, so that the translation can be verified.  I keep a copy of the "German" on my computer, and I have thought about copying it into the article, and doing the translation "in place," so to speak, so that the translation process becomes part of the history.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 17:44, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * My interpretation of Der Text ist unter der Lizenz „Creative Commons Attribution/Share Alike“ verfügbar; zusätzliche Bedingungen können anwendbar sein. Siehe die Nutzungsbedingungen für Einzelheiten. is that providing the link back to the German page on the English talk page of the article (as has been done) is sufficient.

(I have to say the controls on the German Wikipedia and the actions of a few over enthusiastic user has stopped me contributing to the German pages. Please done let it happen on English pages).--Traveler100 (talk) 17:46, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The guidance for translators on English Wikipedia is as follows: "Because Wikipedia licensing requires attribution, the translation source must be credited to avoid copyright violation. The template, which is placed on the article talk page, is the recommended way to credit the source of the translation". This seems to be standard practice. If the original page is moved, there will still be a redirect. If it is deleted; de.wiki should still have archives which are traceable. Slavishly copying the original authors is not always going to be accurate either e.g. if only part of the article is translated (which is the case in the Berlin-Hamburg Railway). And whatever de.wiki says, both wikis are using the same licence, so the rules should be the same. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:00, 11 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually the practise in the English WP stands and falls with the question if the article in the German WP still exists or gets deleted. As long as the German articles exists, a permanent link works. When it got deleted, it's gone and users outside the wikipedia who are using the wikipedia are commiting copyright violations. Users outside the wikipedia cannot trace the version history of a deleted article. That is NOT in the sense of GFDL and/or CC. In the German Wikipedia, however, we're importing articles from other WP language versions or per file upload or by copying the article history in its entirety into the first article version. And yes, the practise in the English WP is considered as copy violations in DE:WP. --Matthiasb (talk) 23:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * so we need instructions on how to upload the whole darn file from de:wiki with the article pages, and that has to go in the article history? then we can translate it?  Auntieruth55 (talk) 00:06, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


 * So the original article in question is not  a copyright violation, since the German article still exists. And the same applies to all our translated articles, unless the original gets deleted. However WP:PAGE says "When a page is deleted, its revision history remains in the database and can be retrieved by an administrator, who can also undelete the page (see Wikipedia:Viewing and restoring deleted pages)." So the information is still available, just not routinely visible. I'm beginning to think this is a question for the Wiki copyright experts to rule on, or we're faced with a huge pile of (largely unnecessary) work. And my level of interest in doing any more articles is also beginning to wane. --Bermicourt (talk) 07:23, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep cool ;-) as anything in the Wikipedia it can be fixed if it becomes an issue. I don't know why (there might be some diskussion at the village pump or elsewhere) the Englisch WP does not use either the import funktion nor the upload function which "normal" editors have no rights for anyway. As for now the EN:WP seems very lazy (correct word?) on handling the author's rights, maybe not taking in mind that the German Urheberrecht's quite different to the anglosaxon copyright understanding. Actually in the German speaking contries (DE, AT, CH) public domain does not exist. Copying the full article history in the beginning of every translation and a hint on it in the edit comment keeps you on the safe side. --Matthiasb (talk) 15:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC) BTW: When the toolserver is working (it doesn't at the moment) you can use this tool for extracting the article's history.

Inner German border nominated for Featured Article status
Having recently rewritten Inner German border, I have nominated it for Featured Article status with the intention of getting it onto the Main Page in time for November 9th, the 20th anniversary of the Wende. Please feel free to post any comments and suggestions at Featured article candidates/Inner German border/archive1. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

New portal: Harz Mountains
I have added a new portal on the Harz Mountains. It's needs expanding with more links, but the baseline is there. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:34, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Die Päpstin / Johanna Wokalek
Hi I notice that Pope Joan (2009 film) is going to premiere somewhere in Berlin tomorrow Monday, 19 October 2009. Would someone from Berlin be willing to figure out where exactly and try to snatch a picture of Johanna Wokalek for her article? I'm thinking she'll be there, probably along with others affiliated with the movie (Bernd Eichinger, Donna Woolfolk Cross, Sönke Wortmann, David Wenham, John Goodman). :) Cheers, Amalthea  22:48, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Popular pages
I have requested a list of popular pages for this project at. --Ysangkok (talk) 15:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Invitation to look over the Rudolf Bahro page
I've just done a whole bunch of edits to the Rudolf Bahro page because what was on the page originally was an incoherent mess, and I thought someone as interesting as Bahro deserved a clear entry. I've put most of what I take to be the important points about Bahro on the page, but if there's anything people want to add or edit, I'd like to invite them to do so.

There was a lot of content that I took off the page itself but transferred to the discussion page to show what I removed...in case people feel there is something of the content which could still be used. When you look at this material, you'll pretty much see why it has been excised from the page, I think...but I invite people to make their own judgments. Zachary Klaas (talk) 02:40, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Geestland
I've moved this proposal from the Geestland talk page:

Whilst "geest" is an accepted term in reliable sources (e.g. Dickinson and Elkins ), I have not come across "geestland" in authoritative English language sources. My suggestion is therefore that this is moved to "Geest" and the disambiguation page moved to "Geest (disambiguation)", but we need an admin to do it. --Bermicourt (talk) 21:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)--Bermicourt (talk) 10:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay the original author has just replied as follows:


 * "why don't you just move it? i had the word out of some german-english dictionary and certainly don't claim extreme reliability for that. -- southgeist (talk) 22:55, 29 October 2009 (UTC)"


 * ...so I will try and get an admin to move the 2 pages. --Bermicourt (talk) 08:14, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

How is it possible
That there are numbers mentioned who speak from about "400`000" deaths east of the Oder-Neisse? Alone from east prussia more than 500`000 perished. There should me a mark that this article is highly disputed... I just imagine that there would be a reference in a Holocause article which would estimate the number of killed jews less than a million... that would be illegal in some countries! But regarding the expulsion of the germans, it is even adequate to talk about the "guilt" of the victims and the "good reasons" of those who commited the genocide, and deny it til today. A scandal in fact.

Lüderitz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.210.154 (talk) 15:45, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you tell us what article you are talking about, quote the relevant sentences and cite your sources (with bibliographic details) for your figures?--Boson (talk) 18:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

May I add: reliable sources. --Ekki01 (talk) 19:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Neue Bundesländer
What should be the name of the article about the Neue Bundesländer? Your opinion is welcome here. --Nero the second (talk) 09:43, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

ß move discussions
There are discussions ongoing about moving the article at Gießen to Giessen and Weißenfels to Weissenfels, at Talk:Gießen and Talk:Weißenfels respectively. As the questions raised are relevant to the naming of many articles covered by this WikiProject, input from its members would be useful. Best, Knepflerle (talk) 12:46, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Category rename
Hi, I have requested a rename of Category:Evangelical Church in Germany dioceses; see the discussion at Categories for discussion/Log/2009 November 15. Thanks! +Angr 17:51, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Der Stürmer
A new article article, Content of Der Stürmer was created recently, which I tagged to be merged into Der Stürmer. It is mostly covered by Der Stürmer, but I don't know enough about the subject to determine whether there was content to be moved over before a redirect. No one has seemed that interested in discussing the proposal, and the author of the new article keeps removing the merge tag withou comment. Anyone willing to take a look? Singularity42 (talk) 21:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

GA reassessment of Alec Empire
I have conducted a reassessment of the above article as part of the GA Sweeps process. I have found some concerns which you can see at Talk:Alec Empire/GA1. I have placed the article on hold whilst these are fixed. Thanks. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:07, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Boletus edulis
Hello all, we are buffing up Steinpilz (Boletus edulis) for a crack at FAC sometime soon and lack access to german cookbook or mushroom articles indicating the best known/preferred ways (traditional recipes etc.) of eating Steinpilz in Germany. All help muchly appreciated. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:54, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Assistance requested: Imperial Knight Eberhard (Bernhar) Buob (Booe)
Came across this one on WP:EAR. It's in dire need of help, anyone willing to take it on? Thanks. – ukexpat (talk) 22:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Pageview stats
After a recent request, I added WikiProject Germany to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at WikiProject Germany/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 01:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Article Incubator/List of German actors (from 1895 to the present)
I just incubated this article, but have little interest in thse subject. Any assistance on this article would be appreciated. Does anyone know another editor who is a big fan of German cinema? Please let them know. Ikip (talk) 15:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not a big fan of lists as articles, but this might have some nice red links for people searching something to write about. — Kusma talk 10:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Burgen, Schlösser, Festungen
Should sub-pages under List of castles in Germany be enhanced or split? Additional comments and suggestions welcome at: User talk:Traveler100. --Traveler100 (talk) 09:40, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

A-Class at WikiProject Germany
The following articles all passed an A-Class review at the Military history WikiProject. I think they could be listed here as well: Hans-Joachim Marseille, Erich Hartmann, Wolfgang Lüth, Egmont Prinz zur Lippe-Weißenfeld and Helmut Lent. What is the process here? MisterBee1966 (talk) 11:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Nobody has invented one yet. What should it be like? — Kusma talk 11:17, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * We should have one similar to MH, no doubt. I'll help, but I don't know how to do the wikistuff.  There have been a lot of articles at A class MH that should be A class here as well.  Auntieruth55 (talk) 21:02, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Protestant Reich Church or German Evangelical Church
Hey, should the Protestant Reich Church article be renamed German Evangelical Church? I don't know much about it, but after reading the article and talkpage I'm getting the feeling that German Evangelical Church should be the title and Protestant Reich Church a redirect. Does anyone know more on the subject? Ltwin (talk) 21:21, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Definitely not. I've been unhappy with the redirect, even, because it redirects from historical German Evangelical churches in the United States, Australia, Canada, and South America. Auntieruth55 (talk) 00:51, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Request for comment
Please see Talk:Scientology_controversies. Cirt (talk) 13:44, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

A little geography query and a word translation
Hi, I'm working on Rudolf Schock and am wanting to clarify a couple of things. First the Bayreuth Festival site says he died in Dueren-Guerzenich while Grove Online says he died in Guerzenich. Are they basically the same place? I notice that Bayreuth says he lived in Dueren - is that yet another name for the same thing, or are the three entities different? I also want to check on the meaning of "erfolgreichste" and whether "zugleich" weakens it on the Bayreuth page. I'm guessing it says he was the outstanding German film singer of his generation, but should like to confirm before I add it to the article.--Peter cohen (talk) 17:03, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Gürzenich is a district of the county town of Düren, and


 * Zugleich war Rudolf Schock der erfolgreichste deutsche Filmsänger seiner Generation.

means
 * Furthermore Rudolf Schock was the most successful German movie singers of his generation.

I wonder whether this can be called NPOV.

--Abe Lincoln (talk) 17:24, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. If you look at the state of the article before I started on it today and the fact tags I've slapped in, you'll see that NPOV struck me as an issue that needed addressing. As for the reference in the Bayreuth profile, it's 50 years since he made his five stage appearances there. So I don't think there is a real conflict of interest there. I think I can say the claim is made by them, althoug I suspect that they've just reproduced the content of their source. It's noticeable that of the four family profiles (Wieland Wagner, Wolfgang Wagner, Katharina Wagner and Eva Wagner-Pasquier) in the artists section where I found Schock's profile only Katharina's seems to be hyped. Her father's and uncle's profiles are both given sources unlike her and her half-sister's. My instict is that all the sourced bios are just reproduced with permission.--Peter cohen (talk) 18:49, 21 December 2009 (UTC)