Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Go/Archive 1

Go diagrams
Of course something needs to be done about posting go diagrams on Wikipedia. I see that attractive chess diagrams are posted on FIDE World Chess Championship 2006. Can anything like this be done for Go? -- Bob McGuigan


 * I think the position is that various diagram have been created here, at different times, and we need to assess those potential solutions. A practical long-term solution would perhaps be to use the filters at Gobase, which can render SGF as exportable diagrams. I mean, Sensei's Library or other sources may provide SGF for diagrams, and a once-for-all program that converts to diagrams will eventually save everyone time.


 * It is possible, as I've done here, but I do agree that there needs to be an easier way to produce these ;P CanbekEsen 19:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


 * My idea is to use the 'filter' at http://gobase.org/software/sgf2misc/. You paste in SGF, and it returns a diagram, for example PGN. I have just been emailing Jan van der Steen about this, and he has sent me a sample. I'll post it here tomorrow. (There are some advantages in creating SGF files first, but of course it all becomes more serious at that point.) Charles Matthews 22:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)




 * So this on the left is a PNG I made with the sgf2misc page at Gobase. That is with the kaya and no letters/numbers options . You paste in the SGF file, and get a page with diagram, from which I saved it. Charles Matthews 12:02, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

To add to that, I should mention the convenience of entering diagrams at Sensei's Library. You can then export diagrams from there as SGF; I have just done this with a single right-click. So really there is a slick way to do it all, for anyone with a Gobase account anyway: make diagrams at SL, export the file, paste into sgf2misc, save the diagram, upload at Special:Upload. Charles Matthews 22:34, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

A big problem with this is it's a pain to update or modify images, compared to having the board inline when you click on "edit". What is preventing us using SL type board diagrams (getting from an SGF to them is pretty simple, after all). --Steve Kroon 14:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The SL diagrams are a feature of the special wiki software developed by Arno Hollosi. How could an ASCII-type board be rendered here on WP? We are not going to get help from the developers any time soon, that's for sure. In any case if one keeps the SGF, one can do any actual editing on SL, and rr-export? Charles Matthews 14:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I like the look of the diagrams Charles posted here but I also see the point about editing. It seems the only way to edit these diagrams is to create a new one and delete the old one. I mentioned above the chess diagrams on Wikipedia. They seem to be produced from ASCII. I suppose that Wikipedia must have some utility that translates the ASCII into the chess diagrams, and that is what CHarles is referring to when he says we can't expect to get help on this. Bob McGuigan 17:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

As CanbekEsen pointed out, we can use quasi-Ascii representations of the boards - there's a Game of Go Position template which he used on the Cho Chikun page - the example is copied here. The rendering and colouring is not ideal, the amount of detail input is not ideal, it doesn't have move numbering, and it doesn't do partial boards, but it may be possible to ingeniously optimise it... (use "edit" to take a look at the source).

Actually, this template is better than I thought - there are corresponding 9x9 and 13x13 boards, they support numbering (0-9) and stone marking (triangle), and some partial boards. For more details, check out Sandbox/Game_of_Go/Manual, and some more examples at User talk:CanbekEsen/Archive 1 --Steve Kroon 07:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think we can have much better diagrams, in terms of looks. You are not showing numbers on that one. This way of doing it, a tiling method as I would say, is the typical solution coming from the tech side. But I really think such diagrams are stopgaps. We should be using the established SGF file format, and the work already put in on utilities for that. What I would suggest is that we, the WikiProject, systematically build up an archive of the SGF files needed. In fact in the longer term we may want to put those on Wikipedia Commons.

To go back and forward on SL is easy, I think, at least for short variations, by using this page, which turns SGF into diagram. So we have a full process that can go


 * Create diagram using SL as scratchpad
 * &rarr; export as SGF file
 * &rarr; save SGF file, archive here
 * &rarr; convert to preferred diagram type at Gobase
 * &rarr; upload diagram at WP
 * &rarr; any diagram editing by taking SGF, importing and editing it at SL.

I think that covers a practical cycle of development. With several windows open it would actually be quite quick. The only major aspect missing is cropping diagrams. I'm sure that can be done in several ways.

Charles Matthews 08:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Sure, it could look better, but the major restriction at this stage is simply the quality of the tile images - uploading new, better looking tiles will address that. I can't see anything wrong with generating a tiled diagram from a tiled description in the edit page. After all, if we want this to be an "encyclopedia anyone can edit", we can't assume they are SL users, Gobase users (can take a while to get an account, etc), or the like - if it's tiled in the page itself, anyone can open it, and, by just taking a look, figure out how to make a correction/change.

In addition, if SL becomes Wikipedia's Go scratchpad, we'll be clogging their recent changes (albeit with minor edits) - this can be solved by creating the SGF in a regular editor instead of using SL, and saving the SGF. However, uploading images to Wikipedia is, in my opinion, a real pain (not to mention if we have to upload an SGF and an image for each diagram we wish to make). If the engine could generate the png's from the board description, it would be ideal (especially if the generated image linked to a generated SGF download). Note that Chess diagrams have had their game successfully implemented like this (without the download), so I can't see why we can't get it done as well (especially if Jan would be willing to donate his Gobase code, although I don't know if he'd do that). While we're waiting for that, I can't see how complicating the diagram creation with SGF->diagram conversions and diagram->image conversions, and, notably file uploads, improves the simple solution of using the existing templates (which mighty easily be usable if someone can write a filter to alter SL-style diagrams to match the WP template style; or a new WP template which takes SL diagrams and pre-processes them for the current template we have on WP).

Let me also just say that I agree that the current template, as is, is not efficiently usable, since we have no development cycle to go from an established SL diagram or SGF to a WP template diagram. However, once we have such a tool, I think using an inline format will be inherently better than having to replace an image each time one wishes to make a change. As such, I think it's worth it to rather spend a bit of time trying to get a good solution of this kind, rather than using a workaround with which we can get results now, but which may be sub-optimal in the long run. It seems, therefore, that while you consider the "tiled" solution a "stopgap", I consider the solution you are proposing as being the "stopgap". --Steve Kroon 09:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Disagree. The basic argument against tiling is that you can't guarantee that it will look the same on all browsers. I really can have no idea whether you and I are seeing the same result: I see each horizontal line separated by a white gap.


 * I doubt there would be issues about using SL under minor edit. I'm a Librarian (admin) there, I think, though I did try to resign once, and it's not a high-traffic place. I'm sure something could be sorted out with Arno and Morten.


 * I agree that the point of the discussion is to try to get a good way ahead. I have to say that I have put together 1000s of diagrams in my time. Editing that quantity of ASCII boards would not be good. Naturally there is a preferable way, which is point-and-click on an SGF writer. The state-of-the-art on SGF handling programs is not something I want to lay down the law on, absent some more research. But given that SGF is the online format, and widely supported, I do think we should start at that end. If people want to go from SGF to the tiling format, one can convert to an SL ASCII diagram; and then some software wizardry can potentially produce other tiling formats from that. Charles Matthews 11:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. I've given my opinion, and would just like to re-iterate that in the long run, we'd like to be able to, like chess, have some code running on the wikipedia side to generate PNG's that get served, not serve a bunch of tiled images, which as you say, can look clunky (but they don't in my browser). But, since I'm more interested in editing on pros, and tournaments, I won't be doing that many diagrams (and I haven't got that much experience). I'm willing to concede to your greater experience at publishing diagrams: if you believe uploading a PNG and sgf pair, and mapping the two to each other somehow, for each diagram, is the way to go, we can use it. I just perceive it as a huge barrier to entry for other people. But enough of that. I guess the question is what some other people say, not just you and I. --Steve Kroon 10:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


 * What experience mostly shows is that getting the words right is harder than the pictures.


 * So, a way to go is


 * census of existing diagrams
 * creation of new single diagrams
 * while the discussion is still fluid, just comment out previous diagrams
 * add SGF for new diagrams in place, also commented out.


 * Charles Matthews 13:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, another way to go. Have a look at this, found in a German wikibook: http://de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bild:Go.gobrett.png. It's a screenshot from a program, Jago. Not quite sure how to do it, but a high-quality image. Charles Matthews 16:49, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

What to discuss?
I think life and death would be a good place to start. I have already added seki, which wasn't even mentioned. That led to the observation that the page go terms has characters in the section headings, a bad idea for linking to them as anchor points.

We should also get into the habit of adding references.

Charles Matthews 13:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Template:Go-stub
I've finished tagging all the Japanese go player articles with the stubs. CanbekEsen 11:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Templates discussion
I'd also like to suggest the following templates: --TheKro 10:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * A name template for Go players, showing the player's name in Kanji, Hangul, or the like, as well as the various romanizations. Have we chosen a standard for the main article on each player?
 * Short biography template for professionals, showing date of birth, date turned pro, date retired, date died, place of birth, affiliations, etc.
 * A promotion history template for each professional, showing year of each promotion (and reason for award, perhaps)
 * A tournament template, indicating which countries and players participate, the general format, the prize money?
 * Succession boxes for the various tournaments to be displayed on the player pages
 * A table for listing tournaments/titles won by a professional

Succession boxes. Good for getting the old Honinbos in order. I think for getting the modern holders of the Honinbo title in order, we should be very careful of arguing we need all that. South Korea has 15 major pro title, Yi Ch'angho's page could easily be made unreadable by too many boxes. Charles Matthews 13:25, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I added oshirogo records at Honinbo Chihaku. Partly that was because the other information didn't say much. In general doing the historic Honinbos properly can provide a 'spine' to develop all the Edo period go material. Which is very much an encyclopedic goal, to do once well, and complement current tournaments. Charles Matthews 14:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Names
There are two big issues.


 * Korean names, I think McCune-Reischauer is the only systematic option, and certainly the one that fits with the good English sources (Gobase, SL, GoGod, Go World ...)
 * Japanese names. The overall policy is bad for us, considering that for 40 years or more go players have followed the Japanese name order, while enWP has standardised now on Western name order. We should raise our voices as a project on this, I feel. Overriding the name order in common use is not actually a good piece of policy.

Charles Matthews 14:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

There is a problem regarding the Japanese names in that common English language non-go usage puts the given name first and then the family name. That is how newspapers do it, for example. Even in the go world usage is sometimes confused. I have seen a go news article that referred to the current Meijin title contestants as Shinji Takao and Cho U. Even on Wikipedia there are articles with the Family name, Given name order, especially regarding the old Honinbo title which was actually a "family" name. So we see articles titled Honinbo Dosaku and Cho Chikun. What would happen if we just went ahead and wrote the articles the way we'd like to, i.e. using Family name, Given name order? Would we start an editting war?

Bob McGuigan 9:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Bob, have you seen this? Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)? I personally preferred the names they are called in their home country (Takao Shinji, Fujisawa Hideyuki etc). CanbekEsen 21:46, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for pointing that out. In my opinion this policy is likely to cause a lot of confusion.  And it isn't followed rigorously anyhow, witness the article Cho Chikun.  The split between historical figures and modern people seems arbitrary.  Unless someone knows a lot about a a person's dates, for example, or is very well informed about Japanese naming practice, a randomly encountered name will be a source of confusion.  There is good precedent for having the go project naming convention be Family name, Given name because that is the current and historical practice in Japan and also is the policy in the almost all English language go publications.


 * Bob McGuigan 28 October 2006, 14:50 UTC

We need to petition the Japanese MOS on this. No one wants to read about 'Seigen Go'. Their convention should not over-ride 40 or 50 years of common usage. Charles Matthews 16:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the current official policy must, at least partly, derive from the custom in published translations of madern literature to give the author's name in Western order (e.g. Haruki Murakami). user:By78's talk page has some valid points to use in discussion with the Japanese MOS. I imagine many Japanese people might feel uncomfortable writing the Western order, and we might hope for contributions from such people in the future.  Bob McGuigan 15:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that the over-riding Wikipedia policy is that when a particular name is definitely the most commonly recognized form among english language readers, then that is the form of the name that should be used. Thus it is and should remain "Go Seigen". For most other cases, I would generally like to follow Charles lead. Hu 08:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Edit war
We have an edit war brewing, with User:By78 reverting my attempts to introduced standard NPOV and other improvements to Honinbo Shusai and Go Seigen. Charles Matthews 16:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Go or go in template names?
Which one should be used, the capital Go, or the undercase go? Please share your opinions. CanbekEsen 07:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I always think that it is best to capitalize Go. I generally advocate adherence to well established rules of english usage, but rules are meant to serve, not strangle. The verb "go" is so common and brief that readability is enhanced when the name of the game is distinguished, so I strongly urge breaking the rule and capitalizing Go. It is briefer and often better flow to write "Go" than "the game of go". Hu 08:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Seems good enough a reason, I'm going to start moving them. CanbekEsen 20:55, 17 November 2006 (UTC)


 * OOPS! My bad.  I misread the section header.  I thought we were talking about article titles and text.  For templates, I suggest leaving them as lower-case "go". Hu 12:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Promotion history template
I'd like to suggest a template for giving the promotion record of players. Basically, this would entail two columns, one for rank, and the other for the date/year it was awarded. Further notes could be added in text, or may be a third, optional column: this could be used for specifying what tournament victory, for example, led to a promotion, or other notes. --Steve Kroon 08:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I've tried something like this recently, at Rin Kono and Lee Sedol. CanbekEsen 04:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Looks great. Seems like creating templates (for promotion history and yearly records, as per Lee Sedol), should be quite doable? --Steve Kroon 08:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I've done a preliminary template, go to Lee Sedol to see. CanbekEsen 23:45, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I like this. However, I'd suggest making the users type in the ranks (1 dan, 2 dan, etc).  It makes the wikisource more readable if changes or corrections need to be made, and it means that ranks can simply be left out if they are skipped (such as the early Chinese pro's going straight to 9-dan, or ranking jumps for tournament wins in Japan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Steve Kroon (talk • contribs) 08:08, 12 January 2007 (UTC).


 * Done and done. CanbekEsen 20:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Category moves
Someone has suggested moving every single Go category from Go to Go (board game). Anyone else see this? CanbekEsen 06:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Regarding copyright on some pages
I have been informed that some pages on go players here have copyrighted material that is copied word for word without any permission from the copyright holder. The biggest one, Kaoru Iwamoto, is said to have all information copied from the original copyright source. Pages who also have sources from the GoGod Encyclopedia (including Honinbo Doetsu) do not have the permission to use the copyrighted material. I will hope that some comprimise is made to correct this. CanbekEsen 01:31, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I discussed this with John Fairbairn of GoGod. He is chary of any systematic use of GoGod material here. He didn't ask me to remove the (very limited) number of references I had made to GoGoD, but he clearly didn't want to have me use the CD-ROM as standard reference. So at that point I started to use old Go Reviews as sources. With policy on reliable sources as it stands, there is a problem: there are not so many good sources for plain facts in English, and yet adding factual material here (as opposed to people's theories about strategy) is the most encyclopedic way to develop. Charles Matthews 13:58, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Go player
I've created a universal infobox for players who come from another country to play in another (e.g. Cho Chikun, Cho U etc etc). CanbekEsen 21:18, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Years in professional Go
I've done a test page on my sandbox User:CanbekEsen/Sandbox. CanbekEsen 00:28, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a great project. Charles Matthews 14:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * How does it look so far? Anything need to be changed? CanbekEsen 02:42, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Nomination
Is it time to renominate Go, the board game, for Featured Article status (or Good or A class for that matter)? It looks like all the citations demanded have now been provided. --ZincBelief 15:48, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems so. We should take a shot :) CanbekEsen 00:10, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Seems no matter what, we can't get a good article rating. I've added a bunch of references, and I don't know how the article can be cited any more, as a bunch of this is basically "common sense" (in the way that it's easily accesible) for anyone. I don't know what to do anymore, but I find it amusing that Backgammon has been given good article status, when there are a bunch of citations missing. CanbekEsen 17:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Go terms transwiki
I have just taken down a tag placed by a bot on go terms. The proposal was to move it all across to Wiktionary, which really is wildly unsuitable. I don't have time right now to go and explain to the bot and its owner. Please be alert for a repeat. Charles Matthews 18:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Collaboration of the week
I think it's time to update this, as it has been a few weeks :p CanbekEsen 22:15, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there anything anybody would like to collaborate on? --ZincBelief 15:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

More AFD
Someone has nominated 20th Kisei here. We should add references establishing notability. I'm not sure where to find them -- and probably how to read them if I did. Can anyone do this? --Selket Talk 09:04, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Games played with Go equipment
I'm wondering: what exactly does the Games played with Go equipment article add to knowledge about go? It seems to me that a whole variety of games can be played using a goban and stones, and the broader the allowed variation, the more games possible. For example, Ko shogi is mentioned, with the caveat that stones would need to be marked: well one can say the same for other shogi variants, and even chess, if the board was reduced in size. Tic-tac-toe can be played with unmarked stones on a reduced board as well. And similar articles can be written for other popular games as well: Arimaa can be played with chess equipment, and so on.

I'm not at the point where I think this article should be deleted just yet. (At the very least, I think the gomoku family deserves mention in some way.) But I think we need a discussion on what exactly can be done to improve this article, particularly whether we can expand on the possible games or restrict them. Kelvinc 09:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't have much worth at all. It was originally created as a means of removing a large passage of banal information from the main page on Go.--ZincBelief 10:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps we can list games that are played with Go equipment in real life (or similar equipment, such as a smaller goban), but the stuff on Ko Shogi and checkers probably can be dropped. I know that Renju equipment is superficially similar to standard Go equipment, but I'm not sure about many of the rest (and some, like Philosopher's Football, are so obscure there is probably no official equipment).  The criteria seem somewhat subjective: it may be better off just deleted, but I wanted to get a sense of the mood here about the article first. Kelvinc 21:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Sensei's Library
Sensei's Library got deleted for failing WP:N. I have temporarily restored a copy from Answers.com at User:Unkx80/Sensei's Library. You guys decide whether you want this page restored; feel free to edit that subpage of mine. --unkx80 18:04, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Unless that page can be considerably expanded with information about the history and significance of the website to the Go community, it should probably stay dropped. Kelvinc 21:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hang on, that was a very misleading nom. If you Google for Senseis Library you get many more hits, for one thing. For another, SL is one of the largest non-WP wikis. Charles Matthews 22:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think to actually get a permanent article you have to provide some background information on the website, and some reviews of it. I can see why the present article suffered deletion Do AGA or BGA websites have any reviews we can use? When was the article created. Which authors worked on it. What information does it contain. All of these need to be added in to the article if it isn't to get deleted again. Looking at the review page some people were very keen to get it deleted.--ZincBelief 12:03, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * One of those is in a vendetta with Arno Hollosi, by the way. His vote should have been discounted. Charles Matthews 19:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Apparantly his vote was discounted, but the Admin in question felt that no valid argument had been offered to retain the page, so deleted it anyway. --ZincBelief 21:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have beefed up the article a little at User:ZincBelief/Sensei's Library. Can anyone provide a year for the website's founding?--ZincBelief 12:53, 28 March 2007 (UTC) Update - found a year and recreated the page.--ZincBelief 13:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The Sensei's Library Front Page was created on October 21, 2000, which would probably also be the start date for the wiki.--Robert McGuigan 2 April 2007

Somebody wants to delete the entire Senseis Library page again. If anyone feels like beefing up the article a bit, now would be a suitable time to do it I think.--ZincBelief (talk) 10:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Macrons
I started fixing the spelling of the name in a few articles before I realized how many there are that need to be changed. I would very much appreciate it (and it would be good for the 'pedia) if you could take the time please to fix the spelling of all these. As Honinbo is not an English word, nor commonly used in English outside of the specialized niche Go context, it deserves to be spelled (romanized) appropriately, according to WP:MOS-JA. Thank you. LordAmeth 16:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

NAMT
How does one go about changing a page title? The North American Masters Tournament is no longer defunct, so the defunct needs to be removed from its page title.--ZincBelief 10:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I moved it: North American Masters Tournament. CanbekEsen 20:03, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Jigo
Are there any objections to deleting the page about Jigo? It seems to me that this page would be better covered in Go Terms. There isn't really much one can say about Jigo, not enough to justify a seperate page.--ZincBelief 10:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Likewise for the Hayago page--ZincBelief 13:01, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

List for deletion
List_of_Yusuke_Oeda_pupils has been listed for deletion - seems an obvious case for merge to me, I think I will go ahead and merge it into the bio unless anyone objects.--ZincBelief 11:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Shape (Go)
I remade the "types" section into a list-style for clarity and simplicity. I also added some good images of the shapes from Commons, but I am a total newb at aligning images so would someone please put the images somewhere less disruptive. Thanks a million VanTucky 22:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Diagrams
I've seen a lot of different programs or books used to show diagrams of go positions like at Shape (Go). I was thinking if we could possibly come down to using one program so we could have consistency? They are very easy to produce. CanbekEsen 20:03, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, we had the one discussion. I would like a system that produced SGF as well as diagrams; and was not based on tiling. Charles Matthews 16:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

A portal
Should we be creating Portal:Go? Charles Matthews 16:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Forgive me, but what is a Portal?--ZincBelief 10:04, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

See Portal. Charles Matthews 14:08, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Invitation template added
I've added an invite template for people who are editing Go pages. By adding to their talk page, you'll get something looking like this:

--Steve Kroon 05:50, 25 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Nice idea Steve--ZincBelief 13:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

GA nomination
Is it time to throw Go board game at GA nominations again? I think it is possible we could obtain that level if we delete the sentence tagged with a Fact. Any thoughts?--ZincBelief 13:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

new stub
Just wanted to put the word out that Go complexity has been created in response to discussion on the main Go article. No doubt this article will need alot of work in the days to come. VanTucky 20:06, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

KGS
I have just created the article for the KGS Go Server. Hu 08:07, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

GA Re Nomination 3
I have re nominated Go (Board_game) for GA status. Any help on addressing issues or tidying up the page would be appreciated. The pattern seems to be that we nominate, reviewers complain, we address the complaints, and nobody listens. --ZincBelief 14:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * and it passed... how unexpected!--ZincBelief 15:47, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

 * 6 September - expires 11 September
 * Li Ang (Go) ( PROD by User:128.113.139.187; "Li Ang ... is a professional Go player." ) --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 14:27, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Companies?
Can this project have articles about various companies that are significant to go? I see Sam Sloan already started one (currently, a stub) about Ishi Press. It would be interesting to expand it to include something about its history. I added the Go Project tag to Sloan's Ishi article. SlowJog 21:58, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Notability concerns have been raised about the stub class article on Ishi Press. I would expect similar concerns about other companies related to Go. I have doubts that articles about companies involved with go  could meet Wikipedia standards. Would one article about several companies work? SlowJog (talk) 01:06, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * perhaps a small blurb on them where it is relevant (Ishi press could be mentioned in the history section as having provided English language go books to the western world). I think expanding current content is probably wisest, at least until it becomes apparent that a topic deserves an article of its own.--Davou (talk) 16:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Shen Junshan AfD
Shen Junshan is being considered for deletion. It's probably not his strongest claim to notability, but one of the things the article says about him is that he's a Go player. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:42, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Heads up: Images incorrectly tagged undergoing deletion
Hello, I wanted to inform you that I reviewed User:CanbekEsen's go-related uploads, and I regret to inform you that the he mistagged fair-use images as being free. Since most are photographies of living persons, or trivial pictures of various parts of the go board, I tagged them as replacable, per our Non Free Content policy.

The impacted pictures are: Image:Keigo2001-11-01.jpg, Image:Hideyuki2.jpg, Image:Rin-kaiho.jpg, Image:Kato-masao.jpg, Image:Takemiya-masaki.jpg, Image:Kobayashi-koichi.jpg, Image:Sakata-eio.jpg, Image:Rin-kaiho.jpg, Image:Cho-hunhyun.jpg, Image:O-rissei.jpg, Image:Ma-xiaochun.jpg, Image:Nie-weiping.jpg, Image:Kimshushun.jpg, Image:Ishida-yoshio.jpg, Image:Yoda-norimoto.jpg, Image:Imamura-toshiya.jpg, Image:Otake-hideo.jpg, Image:Lee-changho.jpg, Image:Seo-bongsoo.jpg, Image:Ishida-akira.jpg, Image:Hane-naoki.jpg, Image:Oldyunzisingleconvexgostones.jpg, Image:Shellandslategostonesjitsuyograde.jpg, Image:Shellandslategostonessnowgrade.jpg, Image:Yunzibeingmade.jpg, Image:Yunzionaboard.jpg, Image:Yunziproduction.jpg, Image:Gogame.jpg, Image:Goseigenbowls.jpg. I remind you that we can't use fair use pictures when would reasonably be possible to create a free picture (ie, if the person is alive).

4 other pictures were tagged as possibly unfree and you are welcome to add your comments to the discussion: Image:Kimshushun.jpg, Image:Chenyaoye.jpg, Image:MichaelRedmond.jpg, Image:Sakataold.jpg. Thanks a lot! -- lucasbfr  talk 12:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

World Youth Goe Championship
Hi all, no article on World Youth Goe Championship? Guess it's something on the to-do list... =) --unkx80 (talk) 14:42, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Go Project template
Just thought I'd ask if this project would want the general project template Template:WikiProject Go refactored using the Template:WPBannerMeta template. This would allow for the usual quality/importance ratings to be assigned to the project's (talk) pages, and statistics automatically collected so that the project can see the status of its pages at a glance. If desired, I could help to do this, but it likely won't be until the weekend. Let me know here, or on my talk page. --Craw-daddy | T | 12:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds like an excellent idea! Help with this would be appreciated, so if you could find time for it this weekend, that would be great! HermanHiddema (talk) 12:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, so I actually found some time now and started doing this. However, given the talk on Talk:Go (board game), should I put these articles in Category:Go articles by quality or Category:Go (board game) articles by quality ?  (And similarly for the articles ranked by importance...)  It can be done either way, it's just a matter of updating the template, and the other category pages that are being created.  Thanks.  --Craw-daddy | T | 20:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Category:Go articles by quality should be fine. All other Go related categories are like that, and a requested move to rename them all to "Go (board game) xxx" got no real support some time ago. HermanHiddema (talk) 21:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Things are pretty much set up now. See Category:Go articles by quality and Category:Go articles by importance.  In particular, if things go correctly, the sub-categories Category:Unassessed Go articles and Category:Unknown-importance Go articles should be filling up as the databases are updated in the next few hours.  I've updated a few articles' templates, but not many.  (For example, I updated the main Go talk template.)  As for all of these type of templates, you want to use something like  and so forth (or stub, start, B, etc for the class, and low, mid, high for importance)).


 * The categories I've set up may or may not make one or two existing categories redundant (or the ones I set up are redundant). For example, I set up Category:Image-Class Go articles but obviously Category: Go images exists already.    So you could decide what you want to do in this case.


 * I shall return in a couple of days once the initial statistics have been collected to add the template for those to the project page. :)  --Craw-daddy | T | 22:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the great work, I'll start updating the templates for a lot of pages! HermanHiddema (talk) 13:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * You're very welcome. Having done it a couple of times for other projects, it wasn't so bad this time around.  :)  I have now added the project statistics to the main project page.  These should be updated once or twice a week (automatically), so you can see the general evolution of the project's articles, i.e the ideal situation being that articles gradually migrate from top to bottom as they get improved and the talk page templates are updated as a result of course (from "stub" to "start" or "B", or from "start" to "GA", etc).  By checking the links located at Category:Go articles by quality you can see the logs that are generated automatically by the bots that collect the statistics.  --Craw-daddy | T | 01:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Nominating Go (board game) for Featured Article
I am going to nominate Go (board game) for FA, see Talk:Go_%28board_game%29. HermanHiddema (talk) 19:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * As this is now undergoing Featured Article Review it would be nice if project members contributed suggestions to the main article. Acheiving featured article status is obviously an important milestone for the project group.--ZincBelief (talk) 15:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok, we failed to acheive Featured Article Status. Lets not give up though, I think we are very close. The issues we have still open are very few. A few page numbers need to be found for some references. We should provide a current rank for MogoBot or Crazystone on KGS. Also merge Strategy and Tactics. There is a question over whether Middlegame or Endgame strategy should be mentioned. Personally I cannot think of a good way to write either concisely. IS ANYONE INTERESTED IN HELPING WITH THIS?--ZincBelief (talk) 09:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

New member
Hello all! I am a new member to the WikiProject Go and I am looking forward to writing or helping out about any of the articles about Go. One of my strengths is in grammar fixing and typo fixing (general copyediting), so if you have an article that needs to be copyedited for grammar and spelling, feel free to drop me a note on my talk page. Cheers, Razorflame 18:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Pi (film)
Hi. There is some discussion in this article's talk page about a board position. I was wondering if I could get some help resolving the issue. Any insight is appreciated --– sampi ( talk • contrib • email ) 00:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Go
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Wow one article included. This project team needs to work harder. :)--ZincBelief (talk) 12:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Once more into the breach?
Is anyone willing to make one more push toward FA status for Go? The article is pretty tight right now, I don't believe there is a great deal of work left to enable it to make FA. We know most of the issues people have had with it before, so we can pinpoint the places we need to work most on. I have absolutely sod all to do in work, so am willing to put in some hours towards this. (If it wasn't for this I wouldn't bother editing wikipedia at all actually.)--ZincBelief (talk) 13:17, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I am extremely busy at the moment, and have been for some time, so I do not think I will have time for this in the near future. I notice that Liko81 has made a lot of edits, but I have not reviewed them. If any of them require additional citations, that would need to be addressed first. The other technical points from the last FA candidacy, like citation styles, page numbers, etc, have been resolved, but the article could still use a lot of copy-editing. Perhaps the article can be submitted to WP:GOCE as a good first step towards a renewed FA attempt? HermanHiddema (talk) 13:29, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Come on, the European Go Congress can organise itself. :) This copy editors guild seems like a good idea, I will do this submission ASAP. I noticed Liko81 was doing a lot of editing, in general his edits seemed reasonable to me, a few references might be needed for the material he added. He wasn't the only one to edit the article though. --ZincBelief (talk) 13:34, 27 October 2008 (UTC)


 * There is not much left to do now. Please can any editors in Wiki Project Go who are still alive help us finish the page?--ZincBelief (talk) 15:17, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Request for comment on Rules of Go
Hello. I am requesting comment on a charge that some material I've written constitutes original research. Please comment at Talk:Rules of Go. 128.32.238.145 (talk) 05:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Milestone Announcements
I thought this WikiProject might be interested. Ping me with any specific queries or leave them on the page linked to above. Thanks! - Jarry1250 (t, c) 21:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:32, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Article alerts
This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the  parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

Message sent by User:Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

Thanks. — Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:12, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

10th LG Cup
Please check this article 10th LG Cup, there are inconsistency. e.g. the first line. --Diwas (talk) 11:50, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Dragoş Băjenaru AfD
Amateur player. Unsourced article. Pcap ping  07:52, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people
Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, nearly all wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:
 * 1) supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
 * 2) opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced article if they are not sourced, so your project may want to pursue the projects below.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people
If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here
 * List of cleanup articles for your project

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip
 * Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip
 * Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

Ikip 02:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for Good Article Status
Heh, remember when we were talking about nominating Go for good article status? Well what wags we were! Boy our article was a real heap of shit. It's not even good enough for Good article status. So that's err why, oh god what have I gone and done. Sorry.--ZincBelief (talk) 17:22, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Proposed article deletion
Hello, the Yasuro Kikuchi article has been proposed for deletion. The deletion rationale is "no adequately sourced notability for an amateur board game player", and will be deleted from February 19th if uncontested. If contesting the deletion, please add sources to the article (preferably indicating how he is "notable" -- in Wikipedia terms). Please note I did not have anything to do with tagging it for deletion. I just came across it today, and decided to let the relevant WikiProject (you) know. Thank you. –Whitehorse1 11:46, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. Now unprodded and references added. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:40, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

new adjournment article
There is a new article Adjournment (games). You probably want to remove your project tag from adjournment and add it to Adjournment (games). Bubba73 (You talkin' to me?), 01:39, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Done, thanks. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:40, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

"rec.games.go"
There is (or was?) a newsgroup called "rec.games.go".

Is it still active? Is it related (&, if so, how & to what extent) with Sensei's Library? Might it merit an article on WP? Trafford09 (talk) 14:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)