Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greece/Archive 3

Editing of articles
In the past few days, following a rather lengthy period of good edits, editing of a few key articles of WPHOG, such as the Greek military junta of 1967-1974, Metapolitefsi, Kostas Georgakis, Athens Polytechnic uprising, Diomedes Komnenos etc., has been reversing key sections of these articles and substantially rewriting them. I reverted many of them. I know this is Wikipedia and it is open etc. but could we just set up a task force to periodically check these article against erosion? I can volunteer for the committee. The task is big. Thanks. Dr.K. 16:07, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I do check the articles for erosion and consistently, quite frequently. There are all manner of things to be done. Has this group decided whether it's going to be modern and use CE and BCE rather than BC and AD? If not, what is the thinking behind retaining the older form? I find it troubling, as a prehistorian, to have to use BC, but if that's the will of the group, it's fine with me. 69.108.139.110 (talk) 18:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kamaila

Cleanup tags
There's been a fair amount of discussion on the mailing list and in other places lately of our system for dealing with low-quality articles (i.e. cleanup tagging), and a lot of people seem to agree that it isn't working. It's been suggested, though, that making topic editing communities aware of problem articles might work a little better. To that end, I asked someone to make a list of all the WP:GREECE articles that are currently tagged for wikification, cleanup, or referencing. As it happens, there are only 22 of them, although a couple will probably be doozies; the list is at User:Robth/sandbox for the moment. If we could get these cleaned up, that would be pretty cool, and would demonstrate that we could do something about our backlogs if we just got wikiprojects more involved. If anyone wants to help out, take a look at the list and pick an article that suits you, then cross it out on the list and remove the tag from the article when you're done. (Dibs on Peace of Callias). --RobthTalk 16:56, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * One other thing--I was just reminded that this list is as of mid-January (the last date for which the toolserver has a copy of the enwiki database) so there's a chance that some of these will have been cleaned up already). --RobthTalk 17:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I was between Dimosthenis_Liakopoulos and Hagia Sophia, but with pain in my heart I'll betray Demosthenes for Hagia Sophia!! Seriously now: I want to work on the article, but in about a month from now.--Yannismarou 10:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking a look! Callias is proving challenging, but it should be well worth the effort in the end. (Plenty of juicy ones left, for anyone else who's interested.) --RobthTalk 14:24, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Where is the list of articles needing clean-up? I'm new to this group, but not new to reviewing articles. I'm going through some of the Greek Neolithic pages (such as the one on Sesklo) and finding that more recent research using molecular studies to assess where plants and animals (and humans) come from is not incorporated, leading to a rather Greco-centric view on the Neolithic. It has been obvious to archaeologists since at least the mid-1990's that Greece is not the home of European farming, and statements like "cattle were domesticated in Greece" must, in light of genetic evidence on said cattle, be abandoned. At any rate, I'd add all articles involving the late Paleolithic and the transition to the Neolithic to articles needing clean-up. 69.108.139.110 (talk) 18:29, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kamaila

Aegean Sea
There is a discussion going on here about deleting this template. As the template stands, I agree that it's useless. But, I've made a new one to replace it (and Cyclades, Dodecanese and Sporades as well) here: User:Kimon/Aegean Sea. I believe it would be useful if folks from this project add their thoughts to the discussion there. Thanks! -- Kimon talk 12:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, the original has been deleted and I moved the one I created over to Aegean Sea. I've started adding the template to some of the articles (List of Aegean Islands, Aegean Sea, etc.) But, wanted an "ok" from the membership before adding it to all the other articles on the list. -- Kimon talk 22:12, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Please add them! Shouldn't there be one page on the Aegean Sea and another on Aegean islands? 69.108.139.110 (talk) 18:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kamaila

Hellenism
Also, I feel terrible every time I have to wikilink something as noble as Hellenism to this pathetic excuse for an article. Can someone with the adequate amount of balls historical background write the masterpiece that is deserved? NikoSilver 15:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I find this issue of utmost priority within the project of the scope (:-)) so I created a new heading. I was referring to this version of 'Hellenism' (which can of course be linked within the present disambig article. NikoSilver 15:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I fixed a spelling mistake above to bring this up again in your watchlists. NikoSilver 20:08, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Quite successfully indeed! I promise I'll work on it, but not this month. From some time my wikitime will be a bit more limited. But I'll look at it.--Yannismarou 20:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, the article on Hellenism isn't fixed, and it is really, really bad. Almost anything at all would be better.  I will try my hand at it, with my trusty classicist-spouse at my side.  Naturally, one could write a book on this topic, but I believe I have the notion of summarizing a concept down well enough to attempt an edit.  I am not good with tags or html or links or any of that, and will be more than happy if someone else radically deconstructs whatever it is I write.  But I do have the time to at least make some improvements on that article, by which I mean at least the topic sentence could refer to Hellenism!  69.108.139.110 (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2007 (UTC)Dr. Kama'ila, November 22, 2007.

Indo-Greek Kingdom
The FA article Indo-Greek Kingdom is currently under review to keep or remove its FA status. You can make comments and vote at Featured article review/Indo-Greek Kingdom. PHG 18:13, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Translation help requested
This isn't within the scope of the project, but I thought I might find someone here who spoke Greek. A Greek editor has left a message on my talk page, and one sentence in the message is in Greek; I'd really like to know what he said to me. Would someone be willing to go to my talk page and give me a rough translation into English? Thanks in advance to whoever is willing to do me the favor. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 13:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Sparta needs cites
Sparta still needs additional cites. -- Writtenonsand 16:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

GA Sweeps articles on hold
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Conflicts, battles and military exercises" articles. For the following articles, I believe the articles currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I am leaving this message at this project page, along with the other relevant task forces/WikiProjects to the articles, since the articles fall under this topic and figured you might be interested in helping to improve the articles further. Please read the indidual holds below to see how each article can be improved. --Nehrams2020 02:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Battles of macrohistorical importance involving invasions of Europe GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
Battles of macrohistorical importance involving invasions of Europe&mdash;In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues considering sourcing that should be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. The article needs some more inline citations, an expanded lead, and uniform inline citation formatting. If added, I'll pass the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 00:15, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Morea expedition GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
Morea expedition&mdash;In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues considering sourcing that should be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. The article needs just a few more inline citations and if added, I'll pass the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 01:34, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Byzantine-Ottoman wars GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
Byzantine-Ottoman wars&mdash;In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues considering the lead and some sourcing that should be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. The article needs just a few more inline citations, an expanded lead, and some minor cleanup, and if fixed, I'll pass the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Nehrams2020 02:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Ancient Greece article
Dear Friends,

I'm not joking, this is lifted straight from the article. Does it sound to you like this was written by a professional Classicist or by an American 5th grader? The situation is also reflected in the history of the article, with users with names like Homeworkguy101 and TigersRock40 being the majority of editors and making all sort of inane, vandalism-level changes that fool the bots. For example the genius named Homeworkguy101, in a brilliant expression of American high school humor, changed the term "Romano-Egyptian" to "lettuce-Egyptian", doubtless alluding to romaine lettuce. Christ, what a moron. I have also noticed that it also is BY FAR the most frequently vandalized article on my watchlist.
 * Has anyone who is an expert on the subject taken a good look at the article on Ancient Greece recently? It is in dreadful shape.  It seems like the pros have neglected it and that American high school students have run amok all over it.  I know for a fact that American schoolteachers encourage their students to edit Wikipedia (probably so they don't have to grade homework), and since Ancient Greece is a favorite topic of the American school curriculum, this seems to be the end result.  There are so many literally infantile and inane sentences that they are too numerous to mention.  Here's one such "gem", from the "Living" subsection:


 * This is a real shame. Classical Greece is the high point of Greek culture, and the article should be one of our top priorities.  We shouldn't let this sort of thing happen.  I brought this up on the article's discussion page, and was immediately validated by a user named athinaios, who agreed with me completely.  He suggested, and I agreed, that the article is in need of a major overhaul, perhaps written from scratch.  Since neither of us is a Classicist, this would require users who are experts in the subject to undertake it.  This would doubtless be a time-consuming project, and one that would require the collaboration of many editors.  To prevent the almost continuous by imbecilic high-schoolers, I would even propose that the article be semi-protected for the time being, at least until the schoolyear is over.  Lastly, it would be nice to some true Hellenic input into the articles on Ancient Greece.  I feel that they are dominated by mostly Anglo-American editors who have their own warped perspective, and it would be really nice to see some genuine Hellenic perspective in these articles, at last.--Tsourkpk (talk) 08:35, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * So, what's with the straight assumption that the poor edits and vandalism of these articles are American? Or even the implicit referral to an anti-Hellenic tendency on Wikipedia? Vandalism is vandalism just like POV is POV and they come from all over the place. If an edit is not right or needs improvement, remove it or enhance it.
 * Also, positive input cannot only come from Greek editors as they can introduce bias of their own (unwillingly).
 * I do understand your overarching point though and agree. To this effect, I went ahead and removed the "living" section and made a note of reviewing the article later in the week. -- Kimon talk 17:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

1) I live in America for the time being, and I am also in the education business.  I read a lot of stuff written by students and I have a lot of experience in this area.  Many of the passages in question read EXACTLY like the stuff I read on a daily basis, so I don't think my assumption is unwarranted.  For example, there was a passage that said that only "white males" could vote in Athens.  This term is lifted straight out of American PC (political correctness) jargon, and to my knowledge is not used elsewhere (added by a use named amanda ruff. sound american enough to you?). I also know for a fact that American schoolteachers encourage their students to edit wikipedia.  A lot of the vandalism is also obviously done by school age students.  If you monitor the article you'll see what I mean.  It's also more or less constant and most of the IP addresses originate in the US.  I've been monitoring the article for a while now, and I know what I'm talking about.

2) I'm not saying there is anti-Hellenic bias in Wikipedia, just that Hellenic input on articles about Classical Greece seems to be minimal.  So it would be nice to see some Hellenic input in these articles as well.  I'm glad that you agree with me about the state of the article, and your input is much appreciated.   --Tsourkpk (talk) 19:39, 20 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My friend, when your accusations are specific to American schools and "Anglo-American editors who have their own warped perspective", am I wrong to see a pattern in what you say?
 * Political correctness is crap and unfortunately, it does not only exist in the US.
 * As for your comment on the name of the editor "amanda ruff", it sounds a lot like something Bart Simpson would say. So no, it's not "American enough for me". But hey, that's just me.
 * I agree that Greek contribution is minimal but, that's across the board on all articles of general interest. This is to be expected, considering the overall percentage of Greek users of this Wikipedia (assuming that it is similar to the % of Greek internet users worldwide).
 * What I'm trying to say is: it's one thing to call out the poor state or the constant vandalism of an article and it's quite another to say that "they" are trying to ruin "our" article and "we" need to "fix it". I hope I made my point come across. Though I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree but, if we do continue this discussion, I propose moving it to our respective talk-pages and not burden the project.


 * As for the article itself, hopefully it will be enhanced soon and I also don't see anything wrong with a request for semi-protection for a short period of time. Though, today has been pretty calm from what I can see in the history. -- Kimon talk 21:44, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm guess it's easy to be misunderstood in writing. No, I don't see a "conspiracy" against "us", but the constant vandalism fits a very specific pattern and it's really getting on my nerves. Here's another one from today:

I mean, it's just doesn't end. In any case, I guess you're right that it doesn't matter where the vandals come from, vandalism is vandalism. It really irritates me though. I just hope the page gets semi-protected soon, because I have better things to do than constantly revert vandalism and idiocy.--Tsourkpk (talk) 00:47, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Update
Just so everyone knows, I updated the FA and GA lists on the WikiProject Greece main page. Interestingly, I came across the Delphi article and it currently has a GA-class rating. Unfortunately, the article never received a GA nomination and has not even undergone a rudimentary GA review. By any chance could someone fix this problem? Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 22:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Took care of everything. Elysonius (talk) 02:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Topic classification of articles
I noticed that some projects have a topic classification represented by a "topic" parameter in their project banners (e.g. WPArgentina). I wondering if we should consider doing something similar. Right off the top of my head, I can think of "politics", "sports", "food", "geography", etc. What do y'all think? -- Kimon talk 20:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
 * So, I went ahead and made the relevant modifications to my sandbox copy of the template User:Kimon/WPGR. Samples can be found here. Let me know if you think I should migrate these changes to the "production" version of the banner. -- Kimon talk 15:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no objection to such an addition. I think it is a fine idea.--Yannismarou (talk) 16:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)


 * ✅ - Now, I have to start classifying the articles. -- Kimon talk 18:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Twelve Olympians
In the article of Twelve Olympians some editors constantly add gods who are not members of the 12. We should do something to stop this, because reverting all the time is not a solution and it's not possible as well. - Sthenel (talk) 08:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that and have reverted edits a few times myself. But, it's not always a case of vandalism. Many times, the editor truly believes that [insert deity here] is a member of the 12. The options we have, as I see it, are 1) protect the page (I don't agree with this) 2) keep reverting (time consuming and unpractical) 3) add comments stating not to change the list without a valid academic reference (which will be ignored). -- Kimon talk 14:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course it's not a case of vandalism but these kind of editors don't discuss the issue and they don't stop reverting all the time. - Sthenel (talk) 06:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Can anyone help with this? This particular user maybe ignores the rules of wikipedia and wants to put on the map his own version. - Sthenel (talk) 12:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Greek loanwords
I had a brief talk with another user on Category talk:Greek loanwords where we came to the conclusion that it doesn't make sense to have a category for this in an encyclopedia (makes more sense in a dictionary). But, we saw value in an article covering the topic on how this came about.

Since I'm nowhere near an expert on the topic, I was wondering if someone from this project would be qualified and willing to create that article. I'd be more than happy to assist with editing/formatting/etc.

So..... any takers? -- Kimon talk 14:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Principality of Pindus
This is the proper namebook google Balkanfreezer (talk) 17:15, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Something has to be done about the "Greco-Persian Wars" article
I've only been a Wikipedian for a few months, and I don't want to step on any toes. But as someone with a PhD in Classics, I can tell you that this article needs pruning. Any historian will tell you that the Persian Wars are conventionally dated to 490-479. I know that the conflict didn't officially end until the Peace of Callias decades later, but that's beside the point. Cf. the Korean War, which to this day isn't officially over, but is still dated to the 1950's. The events of 490-479 are more than enough for their own article. Anything post-479 belongs in the Delian League article and/or the Peloponnesian War article. I've already butted heads with (I assume) a fervent Macedonian nationalist who thinks Macedonia played some meaningful role in the Persian Wars; they did not. They kicked ass after the Peloponnesian Wars, but played no significant role in the events of 490-479. Check (e.g.) history textbooks by John V.I. Fine, Bury-Meiggs and Thomas Martin. I'm afraid to do the pruning on my own until a consensus is reached, but e-mail and random Classicist at any college or university, and they'll tell you the same thing.

P.S. In my experience, the conventional term for the conflict is the Persian Wars. It may not be strictly NPOV, but neither is "Vietnam War." But that's the title of that article. Any secondary appellations should be just that -- secondary.

Can someone please go to my talk page and point me to something resembling an administrative authority on the matter? Seriously. Any encyclopedic article on the Persian Wars that runs from 490 to the Peace of Callias is (no offense) just nuts. Ifnkovhg (talk) 06:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Possible Athens task force?
There is now a proposal at WikiProject Council/Proposals for a group to work with articles relating to Athens which has garnered five members, enough generally for a task force. Would the members of this project be interested in taking it on as a task force/work group? John Carter (talk) 18:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * If such a task force is created, it should be under this project. I cannot see it belonging anywhere else. -- Kimon talk 22:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Well I had posted about a WP:Athens here on the talk page a while back, it's in the most recent archive page. If it's much better to create it as a task force rather than a full Wikiproject, I'm all for it. El Greco(talk) 23:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok - We have 6 confirmed users that would like to be part of an "Athens" taskforce under this project. I would be more than happy to set up the infrastructure to support the task-force and if there aren't any objections raised here, I'll go ahead and start. I'll pick an arbitrary 3 days for objections to surface and then I'll start :) -- Kimon talk 19:34, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * If you need any help just leave me a message and I'll see what I can do. As the one who first proposed it I have to help out. El Greco(talk) 19:44, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Or with me. Granted, I make mistakes, but I have generated task force parameter banners before. John Carter (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll be sure to ask for help for the content of the taskforce pages from you guys but John, if you take away the WPGR work, what'll be left for me? ;-) -- Kimon talk 21:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * ✅ WikiProject Greece/Athens task force -- Kimon talk 02:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Looks good. I went ahead and started tagging some articles within the task force's scope. El Greco(talk) 16:21, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Eniskhimeni Analogiki
Dear WikiProject Greece. I'm trying to complete Template:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics and need to find out the method Greece used for seat allocation in the 2004 European Parliament elections. The European Parliament factsheets say that the seat allocation method is "Eniskhimeni Analogiki". This is neither confirmed nor contradicted explicitly by the European Parliament 2004 website. A Google search for the term throws up <10 hits which isn't much use. I think (I might be wrong) that the term might be a transliteration into the Roman alphabet from the Greek, either directly into English or possibly via French. An inspection of the relevant Ministry of Interior website (Greek:, French:, English ) doesn't use the term, although I cannot read Greek and therefore cannot say definitively. If anybody on this project can inform me what the English term (ideally as per Voting_system) for the method that Greece uses for seat allocation, then I would be very grateful. Thank you for your time, regards Anameofmyveryown (talk) 19:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)


 * "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" or "Ενισχυμένη Αναλογική" means "Enhanced Proportional" or, to use a term from Voting system, "Semi-proportional". Hope this helps. -- Kimon talk 13:21, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * NO! NO! NO! Attention! "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" IS NOT USED in the elections for the European Parliament! It is used for the elections of the National Parliament (Vouli). I do not know what europa.eu says but it is wrong. "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" is used for the national elections. The system for the European elections is completely proportional (with no extra seats for the first party) with a threshold of 3%. That is what the Greek Ministry of Internal Affairs says. It is in Greek but Kimon can confirm it.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Yiannis is absolutely correct but, so is my translation of the term ;)
 * For reference, here is the English language link -- Kimon talk 14:24, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * "Purely proportional" not "semi-proportional". Yes, as far as the "Eniskhimeni Analogiki" used only in national elections the translation ia accurate.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the above: I appreciate the effort it took. I've copied this discussion to Template talk:European Parliament election, 2004 - Statistics for future reference. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Greek vampire folklore
However, this was not the case everywhere; on Mount Pelion vampires glowed in the dark, while those on the Saronic Islands were described as hunchbacks with long nails, and vampires on the island of Lesbos were reported to have long wolf-like canine teeth. -can anyone get sources for this. All help on vampire article appraciated. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I have a copy of a magazine called "Μυστική Ελλάδα" (Secret Greece) in a special edition called "Στοιχειωμένη Ελλάδα" (Haunted Greece), of 20+ pages on vampire folklore throught Greece, with the sources on it (mostly "Παραδόσεις" "Traditions" of Nikolaos Politis). The only problem is that it is in Greek and I haven't yet managed to find anything online... --Michael IX the White (talk) 21:01, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Cyprus topics
Since there is now a WikiProject Cyprus, I am of the opinion that the Cyprus related topics currently tagged with the WPGR banner need to be removed and replaced with WPCYP. I just don't see how the majority of those articles are any longer in scope. Opinions? -- Kimon talk 16:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Some of them fall under the scope of WPGR though like the whole Cyprus Dispute. Those shouldn't have the WPGR tag removed. El Greco(talk) 18:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree, which is why I said "the majority" :)
 * I could see how Cyprus, Greek Cypriots and the History of Cyprus are covered by the WPGR scope but, I cannot say the same for articles such as APOEL FC. Granted, there aren't that many articles tagged for this project which would belong in WPCYP (alone) anymore but, there are a few out there still. -- Kimon <font color="#008080">talk 18:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Island/City Naming Convention
It seems there is a dispute going on with the naming convention of Greek Islands and cities as to whether to include the Italian and Ottoman/Turkish variants of the name along with the Greek. Any already established consensus or convention to quickly stop this dispute? Currently it's this IP who keeps removing them: User:89.210.142.194 but it changes from time to time, and you can see in his contributions list what article the user removes the names from rather than listing them here. El Greco(talk) 01:38, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Showcase
The WikiProject's main page is getting rather large due to the amount of FAs, GAs and DYKs. So I suggestiong that we make a seperate showcase page similiar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Turkey/StatusArticleList. Any thoughts? Kyriakos (talk) 12:39, 26 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Sounds like a good idea. El Greco(talk) 22:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll go ahead and create it. Kyriakos (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Presidents and Kings of Greece
Hello everybody, please have a look into this proposed merger.

Thank you, Str1977 (talk) 21:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Attention
I recently came across the Ohrana article about the Bulgarian force backed by Nazis which is responsible for many atrocities in occupied Greece and is described as angels falling from sky.I revisioned the article but if we have someone here who has a special interest about the period please take a look.

All the references and cites are Bulgarian!!!!! Eagle of Pontus (talk) 14:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Pontic Greeks
Hey in the article we shall post real photos from us like Kazatzidis,Christodoulos,Diamantidis,Vissarion,Ioannidis etc etc.Take a look at how Armenians put their photos of Armenian people.It's a good blueprint.Unfortunately i don't know how to upload photos so please maybe experienced users here can help.NikoSilver,Future,Chalpkides etc etc.Any help appreciated. Eagle of Pontus (talk) 18:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Alternative toponyms for Greek places
Project members might be interetested in this Articles for deletion/Slavic toponyms for Greek places.--Damac (talk) 15:35, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

New Archbishop
Does anyone think that we should make an article about the election of the new archbishop of the Church of Greece? Grk1011 (talk) 23:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If you think you can write enough about it to make a good sized article, go for it -- Kimon <font color="#008080">talk 19:37, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hellenic Post
I recently created the Hellenic Post page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-real-zeus (talk • contribs) 16:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot for your contribution!--Yannismarou (talk) 12:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Music
This is an announcement for all Wikiproject:Greece members:

Me and Greekboy have made a To Do List for pages related to Greek music, if you want to help, leave a message on either of our talk pages. Thanks. Grk1011 (talk) 15:57, 20 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I updated the project's noticeboard, adding your very useful list there (under "to create" section). Check my edit, and alter in case you think it could be more useful otherwise. By the way, Kyriakos your "showcase sub-article" is very nice! Well-done!--Yannismarou (talk) 13:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Showcase
Hats off to Kyriakos for creating the showcase page for WikiProject Greece. I added some recent Greek-related DYK articles to the list. However, I am confused as to why there are red links for accessing the talk pages to some of the GA and FA articles. Is this a programming error or something? Deucalionite (talk) 15:20, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm really not sure. I had a glance at the WP:TIRKEY showcase and notice that several of the talk pages there had red links. I think it must be a programming error of some sort. Kyriakos (talk) 21:11, 27 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Bravo Kyriakos!!!! I fixed some of the links to aviod a redirect, which gave them a red link for their talk page. El Greco(talk) 21:44, 29 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Good work with the link EL Greco. The page lloks much better now. Kyriakos (talk) 22:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Hellenization
Is there any point for having such an article?Btitanization...Turkification....Albanization...Francization...POVation... Eagle of Pontus (talk) 15:15, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

AEK Athens F.C.
I have been updating the AEK Athens F.C. page since i joined in June 2006, and i do not feel that it's rating should be start...can anybody change it..??The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 22:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, before its upgraded to B class, I'd like to see some more intext citations. Grk1011 (talk) 02:28, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In wich part exactly..need citations..??The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 15:31, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There should be references or citations whenever something is not considered common knowledge. Grk1011 (talk) 21:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * How about now..i have searched and seached...its all i could find :-P..??The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 23:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I upgraded it, but I'd like to see some more references if possible. You had to have gotten the info from somewhere. If you just knew it, its most likely common knowledge and a reference would not be required. Grk1011 (talk) 01:09, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks..The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 18:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Symbols or flags representing Greek cities, regions and islands?
I can't help but notice, compared to other European countries Greece does not seem to have as many flags or symbols representing a city or island, not even for the Regions of Greece. Only in special rare cases like Athens or Zakynthos. While in comparison Italy and Spain have a town or village symbol for even the most minor entity. Maybe I'm missing something big, but is there any reason why this is so? - Gennarous (talk) 17:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Chariot racing FAR
Chariot racing has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Sandy Georgia (Talk) 01:23, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Help with Image
Is there anyone that might be able to find / help with the sourcing of Image:Masturbating satyr, amasis painter.JPG? It's slated for deletion from Commons, and while it doesn't seem to be critical to the project, you can understand I have a tiny bit of a desire to see it kept =D Help is appreciated! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:29, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Συνάντηση Βικιπαιδιστών στην Αθήνα
there will be a meeting of wikipedians in athens on 31/03/08, see el:Βικιπαίδεια:Συνάντηση —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.173.150.146 (talk) 13:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Officially announced!--Yannismarou (talk) 18:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Sport in Greece,2007-08 in Greek Football,Football in Greece
I recently created the much needed pages Sport in Greece and 2007-08 in Greek football and Football in Greece...if i made an mistakes feel free to edit...The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 19:51, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you are making pages for WikiProject Greece, then make sure you add to the page's talk page. Grk1011 (talk) 19:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * DoneThe-Real-ZEUS (talk) 00:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Updated GA list
I updated the GA list and the current showcase indicates a total of 31 articles. I also checked that each GA article has undergone a GA review. So far, everything checks out except for the Modern Greek grammar article. I do not know how this particular article received GA status without a GA review. Deucalionite (talk) 14:27, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If it hasn't gone through a GA review, it shouldn't be rated as GA. Consequently, I downgraded. Thank you for your dedication Deucalionite. We need more members as active as you are.--Yannismarou (talk) 19:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Rate

 * Could somebody rate this page - Giourkas Seitaridis. The-Real-ZEUS (talk) 02:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


 * You can officially submit such requests to the Assessment department.--Yannismarou (talk) 17:09, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Actress Eleni Papadaki - help is needed!
I started this article on a once celebrated Greek stage actress. I have asked a question on Reference desk/Humanities about the circumstances of her murder.

I was curious about Eleni Papadaki based on a mention in a documentary on Maria Callas, but I am unable to improve it as all sources appear to be either in Greek or unavailable to me (and most are probably both). There is a richly illustrated page here that looks a bit promising, but I can't really tell what it is (even Babelfish stumbles on the code and flash junk in that page). I am sure there is much more in print. Olaus (talk) 10:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * for the greek sites try using http://babelfish.altavista.com/. you can translate blocks of text. Grk1011 (talk) 13:06, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Museums
HI there. I;ve recently botted articles on Category:Museums in Greece and Category:Museums in Athens. Any help anybody can give to develop some of them would be great -I'm afraid they are a bit lacking at present, but at least they are started ready for development. <font style="color:#fef;background:black;">♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦     <font size="-4"><font color="Black">$1,000,000? 18:29, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Abecedar
Major false information in the article. The FYROM user that seemed to have worked in the article has misqouted sources. I reverted one, but there are still major POV going on with statements like "The Republic of Macedonia argues it demonstrated a separate Macedonian language and people existed in northern Greece in 1925, and the Greek government recognized it as such" - FYROM a country in 1925? Certianly news to me. Chaldean (talk) 23:47, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Need Greek
Need Greek spelling at Askomandoura. Badagnani (talk) 17:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Found it. Badagnani (talk) 17:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Proposed Merger Gynaeceum and Gynaeconitis
I proposed a merger of Gynaeceum and Gynaeconitis, as they are just synonyms. Discuss here --Mdebets (talk) 10:24, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Rfc: Template talk:Greek Royal Family
I have initiated a Request for comment about whether King Constantine should be referred to on this template as "HM King Constantine II" or as "HM The King of Greece". This is not intended to be a general discussion about Greek politics, but rather a discussion about how one man is commonly referred to in English-language publications. Noel S McFerran (talk) 19:39, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Updated Showcase
Just so that everyone knows, I updated the FA, GA, and DYK lists. However, the DYK list shows a red link for the Cretan War (1645-1669) and was wondering if anyone could fix this problem. Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 16:10, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

need help please
greetings, this controversial image Image:AncientPhonecian.jpg clearly represents a Minoan woman, it was shot at Akrotiri, why then is it linked to Phoenicia? need expert opinion if anyone can help. ;) Eli  +  22:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Because the people who researched and published the book "Phoenicians: Lebanon's Epic Heritage" disagree with your controversial opinion to the extend that they feature it on the front cover of their book. That is why it is linked to Phoenicia. ;} - Gennarous (talk) 22:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Naming
I've been looking at around a a few articles in the project and it seems like when the names are translated, they use the latin transliteration. Does anyone have a problem with me changing these names (of course the ones that arent known by their latin names) to their correct transliteration? Here's an example: Eudokia. It says the "Greek name Eudokia". The name is Evdokia. Same with Euphrosyne, i want to change that to Efrosini. Grk1011 (talk) 21:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is more than one "correct transliteration". The Wikipedia convention is that common usage outranks what might you might deem proper. A quick search on Google book search reveals that "Eudokia Makrembolitissa" has 125 hits and "Evdokia Makrembolitissa" has 1 hit (for a Turkish book!) A similar result occurs if you search for Eudokia/Evdokia with Justinian. Renaming these pages would, I think, be going against Wikipedia naming conventions. Clearly most people searching for this person will be looking for Eudokia (or Eudocia). Likewise for Euphrosyne. Singinglemon (talk) 15:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well I consider the "correct" transliteration to be the one that uses the latin alphabet, but when said, sounds nearly the same as it would if you read the Greek. I'll just leave them, it causes too much controversy with people who think that they know the greek alphabet, yet actually they know the ancient greek alphabet which pronounces words differently. Grk1011 (talk) 15:38, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

This may be answered elsewhere but there is some confusion about how the name of Γιάννης Παπαιουάννου the rebetika musician should be transliterated. There is a page for him as Ioannis Papaioannou. There is also a Yiannis Papaioannou who is also a musician but classically trained. There were dead links on the [rebetika]] page which referred to the rebetika musician as Giannis Papaiouannou which seems to be the more correct transliteration of the Greek "Γ" to Latin "G". What do we do? Skopelos-Slim (talk) 09:56, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Greek diaspora
Can we reach a consensus about the sources (i mean do we count greeks by heritage but with native passport or do we stay with the numbers of their respective countries who count only the Greeks who weren't born there) and then start double-check the numbers? --Ioannes Tzimiskes (talk) 09:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure that the numbers are based on the amount of people that say they are of Greek descent on the country's census. Kyriakos (talk) 10:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well there's two different ways of being Greek. It can be your ethnicity meaning you might have a greek last name and greek blood, or it can be your nationality meaning that you have a greek passport, buy may not have any greek blood (immigrants). I know that in the US census, it counts people who put it as their decent, but there are some who believe that a passport makes them greek (not really, they could be 100% chinese for example). Just put what the census says. Grk1011 (talk) 13:28, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Alexander the Great
The situation in this article is out of control. Seemingly new (?) users keep popping up and remove the the "ancient Greek" [] from the intro, even though it is well sourced. This may be part of an organized off-Wiki campaign as it seems strange that two users with exactly the same interest materialize out of nowhere and make exactly the same edits (User:Alekishere and User:ilidio.martins. Something clearly needs to be done as this has been going on for months and shows no sign of abating (protect the artice?).  --Tsourkpk (talk) 20:31, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

If they are only touhing 'ancient Greek' then I think it is nationlist POV. The best way to del with it would be to get someone to protect the page. Kyriakos (talk) 22:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Language and style used in "WikiProject Greece" articles
I've tried to correct some articles so that they don't sound like Greek directly translated into English. I'm quite new to Wikipedia but I've observed that many articles within the Wikiproject Greece are written as if they have been directly translated from the Greek language. Wouldn't it be a good idea to use something like a Peer review (correct me if I'm wrong) so that native English speakers or professional users of English read the article before it becomes published? The quality of an article is not only assessed by the information it provides but also by its style and correctness. Articles about Greece (obviously written by Greeks) tend to be written in a very complicated way, with long sentences and words that would rarely be used by a native speaker... Pel thal (talk) 07:43, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Template question
I would like to move Greek diaspora articles from and create separate  template similar to  template. What do you think? It seems to me it is a standard to group similar ethnic group articles by the navigation box at the bottom. - Darwinek (talk) 10:43, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't see a problem with what you propose.--Yannismarou (talk) 17:14, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Creation of Roza Eskenazi article
Translated the Greek wikipedia article on Rosa Eskenazi. Just for your information, so you can take it away from the "open tasks list". (Can a mere mortal like me do that or must I have some kind of special right?) Pel thal (talk) 08:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Mere mortals are fully entitled to perform such actions!--Yannismarou (talk) 16:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Edward Wright (mathematician): Translation of Greek word
In the article "Edward Wright (mathematician)" a 1624 book by Dutch mathematician Willebrord Snellius is referred to. The title of the book is ''Willebrordi Snellii à Royen Tiphys Batavus, sive histiodromice, de navium cursibus et re navali. (Tabulæ canonicæ parallelorum Canones loxodromici προχειροι.)''. Is someone able to translate the meaning of the Greek word προχειροι (procheiroi) at the end of the title? Please reply on the article's talk page. Thanks. — Cheers, Jack Lee  –talk– 00:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Draft Guidelines for Lists of companies by country - Feedback Requested
Within WikiProject Companies I am trying to establish guidelines for all Lists of companies by country, the implementation of which would hopefully ensure a minimum quality standard and level of consistency across all of these related but currently disparate articles. The ultimate goal is the improvement of these articles to Featured List status. As a WikiProject that currently has one of these lists within your scope, I would really appreciate your feedback! You can find the draft guidelines here. Thanks for your help as we look to build consensus and improve Wikipedia! - Richc80 (talk) 21:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Category Archaeological sites in Greece re-org
I have organised the category Category:Archaeological sites in Greece. Some feedback would be appreciated --Mdebets (talk) 15:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)


 * More sites in the Attica region would be: Hadrian's Arch, the ancient theater of Dionysos, the Odeion of Herodes Atticus, the Acropolis, the Philopappou monument, the Kyristus Clock-Tower of the Winds, Kerameikos, Plato's Academy, Sounion-temple of Poseidon, Eleusina, Marathon, Vravrona etc. I haven't searched if the above mentioned sites exist as wikipedia articles but I'm sure that most of them do. Pel thal (talk) 16:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As the regions no longer have any official standing (they've been replaced by the peripheries), I would suggest that the Category:Archaeological sites in Greece by region be replaced by Category:Archaeological sites in Greece by periphery. This would mean that each new category could be included in the category of the particular periphery.--Damac (talk) 19:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. I wasn't aware of the changes to the regions. I would however suggest to leave the name of Category:Archaeological sites in Greece by region as it is and just use the names of the different peripheries in the sub-categories. In this way, the general structure of Category Archaeological sites in COUNTRY can be the same for each country, rather than changing it dependent on how a country calls its sub-divisions. I also think that for someone not familar with the subdivision of Greece Region is more explanatory then Periphery. --Mdebets (talk) 08:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Greek names in astronomy articles
We're having a discussion at Talk:Mercury_%28planet%29 regarding the use of the planet's name in Greek versus the transliterated form. Many astronomy articles provide a similar situation, as noted in the discussion, so we would appreciate some knowledgeable input about what to do (for this article and in general). If you could stop by and provide some opinion, it would be appreciated. Thank you.&mdash;RJH (talk) 15:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Hellenic Navy
At the Template:Hellenic Navy the logo of the Hellenic Navy cannot be used and it's being removed all the time. Since the logos of the Hellenic Army and the Hellenic Air Force are in use in their templates, how this problem could be solved with the Navy? - Sthenel (talk) 16:07, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see my comments on the template talk page, about the difference between a navbox template (used on many pages) and an infobox (used on a single page). The logo is a problem in the former, but not in the latter. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * P.S.: The air force page is okay. The image in the army page has a false copyright declaration, it really has the same problem as that of the navy. Follow the glorious air force, they will lead you to victory. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:41, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Argead dynasty
In the Argead dynasty, the User:3rdAlcove adds the word legendary to the dynasty'ancestry from Argos with no obvious reason since it was a fact accepted by the Hellanodikai in the Ancient Olympic Games. This user has a long history of small but substantial edits in Macedon-related articles in order to weaken any relationship of them to Greece. In this article, he is trying to do the same by arbitrarily baptizing "legendary" the family's origin. - Sthenel (talk) 17:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that "the spirits have calmed down" in the article, as we say in Greece. A compromise wording has been adopted in the lead, and I think that we should look forward!--Yannismarou (talk) 09:51, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Greek national football team
I think this article doesnt diserve a "start" rating anymore.....dont you? Sidinayarak (talk) 21:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Assessment requests should be submitted in the competent department of the project. At the end there is the appropriate section for requests. Now, I think you should also read the project's quality scale, in order to judge yourself whether the article fulfils the B-Class criteria. For instance, is it referenced at all?--Yannismarou (talk) 09:48, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Help with Cyprus cities/towns/villages and their disambiguation.
Greetings! There is a proposal to organize a bot in order to create thousands upon thousands (if not eventually -- a million) articles related to villages/towns/cities from around the world. Cyprus is also a part of this and there is a list of places from Cyprus found here: WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Places/cyprus. Currently however, before the project can begin, the list of places need to be checked for disambiguation. That is, there are some blue links already created and they need to be checked to ensure that they are in fact already the created cityand not a disambiguation page. This is needed as the bot will not be able to create the place if there is already a blue link and if its a disambiguation page, then that place (be it a city, village or town) will miss out. That is why I ask anyone here from this project who has some time or knowledge of Cyprus to have a look and help if they want in any way they can. As a side note, there is also a discussion going on here at the village pump: Village pump (proposals)/FritzpollBot and you are more than welcome to state your views on it. There is also a FAQ that you may have a look at User:FritzpollBot/FAQ but if you have any question do get in contact with Fritzpoll here User talk:Fritzpoll or with Biofield here User talk:Blofeld of SPECTRE. Kind regards.
 * Also note: I understand that there is a wikiproject on Cyprus and I have already posted to them this message. However I believe that if there is anyone here who is a part of the Greece wikiproject who can help out in any way (an extra pair of eyes don't hurt) then that would be more than satisfactory. Also note that as it stands, the places (cities, villages, towns etc) of Greece are currently not up and are pending due to the village pump discussion. In time they will be though. Calaka (talk) 05:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Help needed in Macedon article
A debate has been going on in that article between User:3rdAlcove and myself and User:Ilidio.martins. He insists on:


 * Removing the WP:GREECE tag from the discussion page.
 * Changing "Hellenistic period of Greek history" to "Hellenistic period of world history"
 * Changing the lead sentence from the current "Macedon was the name of a kingdom centered in the northern-most part of ancient Greece, bordered by the kingdom of Epirus to the west and the region of Thrace to the east." to something like "centered in present-day Greek Macedonia and extending west to Albania and north to the Republic of Macedonia". I find this ridiculous and have explained my reasons on Talk:Macedon.

3rdAlcove and I conceded the first two points, hoping it would help reach a compromise, but of course that only led him to insist on the latter even more. However, I feel very strongly that the current form of the lead sentence is both more accurate and appropriate. Any input in helping to achieve a consensus is welcomed. --Tsourkpk (talk) 21:04, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Since when it is advisable to remove the template of Wikiproject Greece from articles because of editors who serve nationalistic purposes? The template has already been removed. This is unbelievable and ridiculous!! - Sthenel (talk) 02:33, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it would be fine to change Hellenistic period of Greek history to "world history", clearly presenting however, that it would have the meaning of period in world history when the greek civilisation was present and had enormous influence everywhere. Well, removing the template is madness. I see, however, that Tsourkpk was trapped by good will... --Michael X the White (talk) 14:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I thought giving in on the template would make him more likely to compromise in the other areas, but of course that didn't happen. In any case, the guy seems to have found something better to do of late.  He might be back though.  --Tsourkpk (talk) 01:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Giorgos Kastriotis "Iskender-Beh" (Alexandros)
Giorgos "Alexandros Beis" Kastriotis!! Now, this article does not seem neutral to me at all!! As Kastriotis is historically doubted to be Albanian and claimed by many sides, it does not present the view of all of them. Now, I have the strong sense that he was Greek, and I am sure I read it pretty recently.I'll try to come back with more evidence the next days. Please help in this! In the talk page too, as the discussion reaches the point of touching the greek descent of at least Phyrrus and Alexander the Great!! Also, pay attention to his Seal;completely Greek!Yet there is an explanation given: that he continued E.Roman (Byzantine) legacy... Have a look,please! --Michael X the White (talk) 21:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

1)Soleto was ruled by the Kastrioti family. Soleto is still a Greek city in Italy... 2)Also, check this out: Georgios Arianites Komnenos!! How is it possible that a member of the Comnenus line is Albanian??? ... It is almost clear from " Battle of Setina" that Arianites were Greek! In Ivan Crnojevic, there is also reference to Albanian members of the Comnenid dynasty!!!...I think we need be more attentive of these... --Michael X the White (talk) 18:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

1896 Summer Olympics FAR
1896 Summer Olympics has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Giants2008 (talk) 20:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Updated showcase
The showcase has been updated again. Aside from having added two more entries into the DYK list (i.e. Analatos Painter and Polyphemos Painter), I have also added a new section in order to include the A-Class articles of WikiProject Greece.

The showcase has a couple of minor problems that need fixing.

1) On the DYK list, there exists a red link for the talk page of the Cretan War (1645-1669) entry. This is not the first time that the showcase has had red links for article talk pages that have already been created.

2) On the DYK list, I am not sure if the New Harmony's Atheneum entry should be removed or not. User:Bedford stated on the article's discussion page that the article itself has really nothing to do with Greece. Any thoughts?

Contact me if anyone has any questions (or complaints) regarding anything pertaining to the showcase's development and refinement. Deucalionite (talk) 14:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * On point 2 I think User:Bedford is correct. Except from "Atheneum" in its title I see nothing else in the article related to Greece. I also want to say that I downgraded Greco-Persian Wars to B-Class. You cannot rate as A-Class an article which is not even GA. Especially for the WP:MILHIST there is a certain procedure in order to upgrade an article to A-Class. Here, we do not have such a procedure, and any user can rate an article as A-Class, but on one condition, based on our quality scale and the general principles of Wikipedia: in order an article to be rated as A-Class, it must be already rated by the Wikipedian community as GA.--Yannismarou (talk) 19:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Currently, the showcase entries all adhere to the criteria of WikiProject Greece. Overall, I am deeply grateful for all of your help adelphe (no bullshit, I mean it). If you find any other problems with the showcase, then please let me know. Deucalionite (talk) 21:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

These are some interesting instructions from the A-Class review section of the WP:MILHIST project:


 * Reviewers should keep the criteria for featured articles in mind when supporting or opposing a nomination. However, please note that (unlike actual featured articles) A-Class articles are not expected to fully meet all of the criteria; an objection should indicate a substantive problem with the article. In particular, objections over relatively minor issues of writing style or formatting should be avoided at this stage; a comprehensive, accurate, well-sourced, and decently-written article should qualify for A-Class status even if it could use some further copyediting.

If there is not any objection, I intend to include to our assessment section the aforementioned very useful instructions from the WP:MILHIST about A-Class status, adjusting them to our rules (we have no A-Class review).

Let me also note that I decided to submit Greco-Persian Wars for a new A-Class review in the MILHIST project. The problem with this article is that within the same month it passed the A-Class review of the WP:MILHIST but failed the GA review (theoritically an easier task). If the project confirms its A-Class rating, then I think that we should also upgrade it. Whoever is interested can read the article and then vote in the review.--Yannismarou (talk) 09:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Transliterating Greek words into English
Hi! I'm working on the article Dionysios Solomos, translating it from Greek into English. When it comes to translating poem/book titles, what is the best way to transliterate them into English? E.g. Ο Πορφύρας: should it be transliterated as Porfyras or Porfiras? Eleftheri Poliorkimeni or Eleftheroi Poliorkimenoi? The issue will arise in other articles too and I think that WikiProject Greece should have a standard way of transliterating Greek. Maybe not a very important issue but if the articles are to be perfect, then we should have a common transliteration policy. Happy editing! Pel thal (talk) 16:32, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Is this helpful?--Yannismarou (talk) 17:23, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Very helpful indeed! Thanx! Pel thal (talk) 09:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Arvanites GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria and I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I have reviewed Arvanites and believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have left this message at this WikiProject's talk page so that any interested members can assist in helping the article keep its GA status. In reviewing the article, I have found there are multiple issues that may need to be addressed, and I'll leave the article on hold for seven days for them to be fixed. I have left messages on the talk pages of the main contributors of the article. Please consider helping address the several points that I listed on the talk page of the article, which shouldn't take too long to fix if multiple editors assist in the workload. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 02:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have also reviewed Maniots, and the article has multiple issues that need to be addressed. I would appreciate any assistance from members of this project in helping this article in keeping its GA status. If you have any questions, please let me know on my talk page. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 05:05, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Scope
The stated scopeof this project looks reasonable, but there are dozens of recently tagged articles that seem to fall outside the stated scope, such as Echinoderm, Ecology, Epilepsy, Encephalitis, and many more. Does this project claim to cover every article with a name originating from a Greek word, even if the article content has nothing to do with the nation of Greece? --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Encyclopetey. Take away the WikiProject Greece tag on the above mentioned articles.  Patriotism is one thing, being ridiculous another...  Anyone else on this subject? Pel thal (talk) 20:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The scope of the project is clearly stated, and it is obvious that most of these articles do not fall within its scope. The Greek etymology of a term is obviously not enough!--Yannismarou (talk) 07:14, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a special Wiki Project about words with Greek origin and etymology should be created, because such words are tens of thousands.--Michael X the White (talk) 11:13, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Tangential to the previous post on scope:
It's something I've also been interested in. I recently dropped a note on the talkpage of User:Dimadick, a very hardworking and diligent editor with regards to tagging article talkpages with Wikiproject templates, about the lack of discrimination I felt he was exercising in the articles he was tagging, and it got me to wondering, are there a set of standards to apply when choosing whether or not an article ought to be tagged for the project? Ought articles like Lao Ma be tagged for WP:Classical Greece and Rome (because she was a minor character on Xena, a television series based on classical mythology)? Or World's Finest Team be tagged for WP:Greece (presumably because Wonder Woman's in it, and she has ties to Greek mythology)? Or Namorita be tagged for WP:Mythology because she's from Marvel Comics' version of Atlantis?

Was I needlessly heckling this guy? Are these things the project actually has an interest in supporting? My instinct says no, that articles should only be tagged if they have a reasonable connection with the Wikiprojects for which they are tagged, but maybe I'm wrong. Thoughts?

I've cross posted this to several other interested projects. Ford MF (talk) 14:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you, and I stated my opinion above. This does not mean that Dimadick does not have his/her rationale and argumentation, as you admitted yourself. But I think that we shouldn't overdo it, and we should search for this "reasonable connection", which is again a very broad term.--Yannismarou (talk) 19:20, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 1353 of the articles assigned to this project, or 13.0%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-06-18.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subsribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 17:21, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I added the C category in our banner, but we must also know restructure our assessment scale. As far as the B-class criteria, we think we already are at a good level. If my personal opinion matters, I am against the addition of the new category. I think that our quality assessment scheme was already just fine.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:37, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm generally against the classification scheme to begin with, so I'm double against its proliferation and expansion. The addition of new categories doesn't improve the system, for WP:GREECE or anyone else.  Ford MF (talk) 14:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Dionysios Solomos article
Hello! Just finished translating the Dionysios Solomos article from its Greek version. I've done my best but I'm afraid that some phrases sound too... Greek. If a native speaker of English (understanding Greek) could have a look at it and rephrase the greeklish parts, it would improve the article's quality. Happy editing! Pel thal (talk) 20:47, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Although not a native English speaker, I'll work a bit on MoS issues, offering also my "clumsy" copy-editing. After the article is properly referenced and reaches its final "form", then the time will come for the "hunt" of a top-class Wiki copy-editor. Now, achieving this copy-editor to understand Greek as well is a huge task! Personally, I know nobody around!
 * But I do think that it would be a nice challenge for our project to bring this article collectively to FA status, although I do not see much activity here lately.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:03, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * And by the way, checking the Greek version, I found out that this article needs some ce as well! Though FA per the Βικι-standards.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:07, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

FARC
Roman–Persian Wars has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

New articles section
I restructured the New articles section. It is now based on the bot, giving, however, the opportunity to users to add articles they think the bot missed. Manual maintenance of the page failed!--Yannismarou (talk) 16:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Trial and incarceration of the junta at Korydallos
Hi. This artcle is considered for deletion. I strongly object to that. Please comment on its deletion page if you so wish. Thank you. Dr.K. (talk) 20:26, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

History of Attica
The Attica article badly needs a history section, especially for a region with so much of it. I posted on its talk page about this last year, with no effect. See Talk:Attica. - Gilgamesh (talk) 07:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with the proposal. I've left a comment on the page. Kyriakos (talk) 07:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Found a pdf document from the Democritus University of Thrace on the Internet. I'll try to incorporate the information in the article until I get access to an encyclopedia.  Moreover, I'll translate the history section from the French version.  Anyone who wishes to help is welcome! Happy editing! Pel thal (talk) 10:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

C-Class rating
I updated our assessment scale, including C-Class category. I made clear however that there is no consensus yet in our project for its being used. Some opinions are already expressed here, but further input is needed by project's members.

My personal opinion is that this new template adds nothing. To the contrary, it makes a comprehensive assessment scale more confusing and complex. Start and B-Class categories are already good enough. I would also like to stress that WP:MILHIST chose not to adopt the category in question.

I'm looking forward to your input.--Yannismarou (talk) 17:30, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the C-class. I've always had a hard time determining if an article is ready for B class. In my opinion, a start class has a good amount of info, but is lacking. C-class would be an article with most of the information, but wording and references may be a little off. If anyone has ever actually looked at the qualifications for a B-class, they are somewhat strict. C-class is a nice middle ground. The assessment scale does a good job at describing it. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:10, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Philitas of Cos peer review
I have requested a peer review of Philitas of Cos. Comments are welcome. Eubulides (talk) 01:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice article!--Yannismarou (talk) 08:23, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Perfectly structured!--Michael X the White (talk) 16:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The lead is not a proper a summary of the article - it needs more info on his works and influence, I think. And the sentence discussing his name can be placed somewhere near the beginning of the Life section, rather than having a separate stub section at the end of the article. Fix those things, and then the article will be perfect. :-) Singinglemon (talk) 09:14, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comment. Other peer reviews said something similar, and a series of edits has installed changes along the lines that you suggest (along with some other changes). The sentence discussing his name, along with some clutter about his name in the lead sentence, was moved into a box that is near the start but does not clutter the lead sentence or the body. I hope you like the current version better. Eubulides (talk) 20:55, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Chameria, Northern Epirus
I've had much trouble in these articles, as User:Arditbido ("balkan") is trying, in both cases to push Albanian nationalistic point of view. In Chameria, he is based in "Greek Helsinki" to say that Arvanites are an ethnic Albanian minority in Greece,(especially in Epirus) self-identifying as Albanians, speaking Albanian. He also makes the article controversial to at least Cham Albanians and Arvanites.Please check it out.!--Michael X the White (talk) 18:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Showcase
I have recently updated the showcase by adding a new section entitled "Featured images". So far, the section contains six images.

I have noticed that WikiProject Greece does not have an Image-class of Greek and Greek-related non-articles. Could someone please implement the necessary technical measures in order to create such a category?

Currently, I am tagging valuable Greek and Greek-related images that I think need to be organized so that members of this WikiProject can find them more easily. Deucalionite (talk) 18:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Relay that request. Deucalionite (talk) 22:59, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll try to do it, but I do not guarantee about the result! Unfortunately, Kimon who was the expert on these issues is inactive.--Yannismarou (talk) 08:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * As I see there is an image class, but there is not an assessment scale. But checking around, I saw that in general no project has an assessment scale in their banner for images.--Yannismarou (talk) 08:32, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think that we should be the first WikiProject to implement an assessment scale for images. If you think about it, organizing images helps to expose them to the wider community. This, in turn, allows users to verify our images along Wikipedia copyright policies.


 * If Kimon is not available, then who do we consult for help on this technical matter? Deucalionite (talk) 14:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

New page
I have created the page: Greek minority in Albania. Please contribute.balkanian (talk) 13:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Modern town of Pherae?
Hello. Could anyone tell me if the site of the ancient city of Pherae is known, and whether there is a modern settlement there? If so, what's it called? Many thanks, DionysosProteus (talk) 23:22, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The modern town is called Velestino. I was surprised to find that it has no Wikipedia article, particularly as the Greek writer and pan-Balkan revolutionary Rigas Feraios was born there. I spent three days there in the summer of 2000. The site of Feraios' house is marked by a monument on the outskirts of town. The ancient pool Hypereia still exists in the center of town, but when I visited, it was mostly mud and did not smell very good. The town has several good restaurants and outstanding tsipouro.  Aramgar (talk) 02:09, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

That's very helpful, many thanks. DionysosProteus (talk) 12:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Looking for views in proposed merger
Hi WikiProject Greece! I recently happened to stumble onto the articles Navarch and Nauarchia, which seem to be about the same topic. I'm hoping some of the members of the project will go to Talk:Nauarchia and add their opinion to the proposed merger. Thanks. Gentgeen (talk) 08:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Greek
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

We would like to ask you to review the articles selected from this project. These were chosen from the articles with this project's talk page tag, based on the rated importance and quality. If there are any specific articles that should be removed, please let us know at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.7. You can also nominate additional articles for release, following the procedure at Release Version Nominations.

A list of selected articles with cleanup tags, sorted by project, is available. The list is automatically updated each hour when it is loaded. Please try to fix any urgent problems in the selected articles. A team of copyeditors has agreed to help with copyediting requests, although you should try to fix simple issues on your own if possible.

We would also appreciate your help in identifying the version of each article that you think we should use, to help avoid vandalism or POV issues. These versions can be recorded at this project's subpage of User:SelectionBot/0.7. We are planning to release the selection for the holiday season, so we ask you to select the revisions before October 20. At that time, we will use an automatic process to identify which version of each article to release, if no version has been manually selected. Thanks! For the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial team, SelectionBot 22:54, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Anatomy listing
I noticed this project includes anatomy, just wanted to make sure it wasn't wrongly added? LeeVJ (talk) 23:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Reading the aims and goals of WPGreece, I could not find any relevance with the article and the project's scope. The only association would be that the word Anatomy derives from the Greek word Ανατομία.  However, I do not consider that relevance as an adequate reason to incorporate the anatomy article into WPGreece (because then nearly all medical articles should be tagged as belonging to WPGreece and there was recently a discussion on this talk page about this that resulted in the deletion of the tag). For the above reasons, I suggest the WPGreece tag to be removed from the article.  Goodmorning from a cloudy Athens! Pel thal (talk) 08:41, 22 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, quite a few articles that have titles of even remotely Greek origin have been tagged with the WPGR tag, e.g. Anthropology, Antibiotic or Armageddon (!). Whenever you come across such occurrences, just delete the tag. Cheers, Constantine  ✍  20:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Have done, and will do .. thanks! LeeVJ (talk) 12:59, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Greek War of Independence
This week, I've been working on the Greek War of Independence article and I've noticed that this is a massively important event's article doesn't live up to it. Overall, it pretty well written bu the scope isn't as broad as it should. The citations and the sources are in shambles and I'm currently working on standardising and improving them. Overall, this article needs so tender loving care. It has the potential to achieve GA class and eyond but it needs several editors who are able to make into a stable, neutral, factial correct and well written article. I'm planning of revamping it in the coming weeks and all help would be appreciated. Kyriakos (talk) 00:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll help you, and if there are more members of the project willing we can make official the first project's article co-operation. But I just hope we avoid the stupid edit-wars of the past, that have plagued the particular article.--Yannismarou (talk) 08:25, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Deal me in.--Damac (talk) 13:39, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not a huge history fan, but I could always help out with the references and copy-editing. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 13:57, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Count me in, I'll do my best.--Michael X the White (talk) 16:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok guys! I see this is the first time so many members of the project declare their commitment to an article's improvement effort. I feel very happy, and I hope that this verbal commitment will be transformed into editing activity (and that through such efforts this project will be gradually revived). Under the co-ordination of Kyriakos (who took the initiative), let's set as our goal to bring the article to at least near GA status at the end of September. After this first phase, we could have aspirations for FA status.
 * Although I do not think that official announcements are necessary, I regard this as the first project's cooperative effort for the improvement of an article within the project's scope.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:54, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And I'll try to see if the language needs improvement. Don't have any expectations as far as I'm concerned for the facts and references part;) Pel thal (talk) 19:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be proud to accept the role. I have hlidays coming up so I will have more time to dedicate to the article. Let's hope this drive isn't hamperd by edit wars Kyriakos (talk) 21:15, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Check my proposal in the article talk about reforming the "Background" section --Michael X the White (talk) 17:38, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've been thinking instead of having several editors working on one section and potential interfering with each others wrk, it might be good if everyone in mission states what area of the war they are most knowledgable in or most interested in. That way we can have several people working at the same time in a harmonious fashion. Thoughts? Kyriakos (talk) 22:40, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I am interested in diplomatic aspects (I am bored with all the war gaming!). So I promise that until September 15 I've worked on the "European intervention" and "Diplomatic bla bla" sections. Kyriakos, have in mind that while working separately, we should try to be consistent on referencing and citing (but I am sure you'll co-ordinate us fine!). I'll also have a look at the MoS throughout the article. I'm sure many things need fixing.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:10, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

And just in order to check our progress, I took the initiative to create a separate page for our mission to discuss with our ease our future plannig.--Yannismarou (talk) 12:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I transclude it here for informative reasons:

Is it done? No edits in a while... Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 19:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * See my comments in the mission page.--Yannismarou (talk) 12:55, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Philitas of Cos FAC comments requested
I nominated Philitas of Cos as a featured article candidate; comments are welcome at Featured article candidates/Philitas of Cos. Eubulides (talk) 04:52, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Greece-linguistic minority map
There has been a dispute in the article Greece between me and Future Perfect at Sunrise. I have explained in detail why I think the linguistic minority map should be removed. Yet I have received no answers from FPS apart from a comment in my talk, urging me to read Talk:Minorities in Greece. I did, but it turned out to be supportive of my opinion (according to me) for reasons I explained here. After FPS implied that I am stupid and I cannot understand a map, threatened me with abuse of his power as an admin, accused me of POV-pushing (though he is the one who does that), I thought that for him the issue is beyond actual encyclopedic information. Having in mind that he is unwilling to talk, defend his position and provide answers, I would appreciate comments on the issue. Any interested user could also look at mine, Future Perfect at Sunrise's talk pages, and also Talk:Greece. Thank you. --Hectorian (talk) 13:48, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I think you raise excellent points, and he clearly feels very threatened by them, which is why he is responding with threats instead of arguments. Not to worry, I think you are doing an admirable job, and I'm behind you 100%.  I find it especially ridiculous that such a map exists only for Greece and that his response mainly consists of what is basically ethnic trash-talk about Greeks having problems with minorities.  I can only think of the reaction if a similar map were placed in, say, Turkey or Albania.  --Tsourkpk (talk) 16:15, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Checking Talk:Greece, the map's old talk, I see that this is certainly not a new issue, or one ever solved. This seems to have been ongoing since mid-February 2008 (and even before that, probably). Tens of users have posted their opinions against the map (in several sections of Talk:Greece, for exemple). Most, if not all of these sections just ended with no answers or decisions or a real discussion or even action on the matter, throughout the year, so far (March-September). There have been objections for every "language" the map shows. The only answers were of the style of "no way I'm changing it". At some point we even saw "they're talking Macedonian, whether you like it or not". Any reaction of any Greek user over logical matters such as, for exemple having FYROM instead of RoM appear in Greece-related maps, were judged as " nationalism appearing here and there and sticking around, being in the way of positive guys doing their work". Greek sources were named "nationalist" and "propagandistic", even internationally recognised scholars as Babiniotis. Is this the wider community consensus? Because it is not wide, nor communal and certainly not consensus.

At the same time, widely known non-Greek nationalists have appeared quietly to put the idea ("Why don't we name the language Macedonian?"). Note: this is not a problem only in this map, there are more exemples handy.More exemples of "Neutral" vs "Greek nationalists". Talk:Ancient Greek --Michael X the White (talk) 16:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Good points. The issue of the map is still essentially unresolved.  I say we take a poll on the presence of the map in the article, as a way of establishing some consensus.  --Tsourkpk (talk) 16:36, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Excellent! I was thinking this my self! It is time to solve this wider linguistic map issue once and for all.--Michael X the White (talk) 16:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I would like to expect more comments from more users first, but if you guys want to go on a vote, it is fine by me. Let the others interested get themselves involved in a later stage. --Hectorian (talk) 17:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I actually think it would also be best to wait a bit till more users get involved. Then we can have a more meaningful poll.  --Tsourkpk (talk) 12:38, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, then, I see and agree. (if you want to, you can remove the vote if it is still there.) I think we should also call other known active WP:Greece members (Kekrops, Yannismarou,etc.) to participate in the discussion. Also, I see 3 possibilities (from the discussion): 1) completely remove it from both articles (Greece,minorities in Gr) 2)Leaving it in minorities in Greece but removing it form Greece 3)Remove it from Greece because it is needed then and then continue the discussion in minorities in Greece. I prefer 1). What do you say? --Michael X the White (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

It's been a while without any edits on this... And leaving it as it is is not a path to resolve the problem... What's up???--Michael X the White (talk) 15:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm thinking an RfC might not be a bad idea. --Tsourkpk (talk) 15:36, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Alright, whatever. But we better start it soon, because it is the best time to run an RfC on that and because it may soon be late... Also, I think we should better mention the entire linguistic map problem, that exists in quite a few Greece-related articles.--Michael X the White (talk) 15:56, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

'''It seems this comes to an end after 20+ days of tireless discussion.Well done, everyone. A step forward is being made in resolving the entire linuistic map issue that affects more than one Greece-related article.''' --Michael X the White (talk) 21:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Semi-retired?
Yannismarou has decided to leave Wikipedia in a "semi-retired" fashion. Who among us will boldly take his place if he chooses to never come back?

Need I remind editors that it was Yannni who organized Greek and Philhellenic users under one WikiProject banner?

Need I remind editors that it was Yanni who embraced users (like myself) and inspired them to realize their potential in providing positive contributions regardless of their barbaric ways?

Need I remind editors that losing Yanni as an administrator will be comparable to losing someone who actually listens to you without having to use POV-oriented ban threats and moot bureaucratic diatribes?

Adelphia, lend me your...words! We need to reach Yanni and convince him to come back!

If you are reading this Yanni, then please reconsider coming back. We need you!

All hail Yanni the Great!!!! Deucalionite (talk) 13:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, is this all about that uncivil comments thing? Don't worry about it, we all get angry sometimes. Its best to just put it behind you and move on. We need him here! Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 14:30, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

FAC for the Byzantine navy now open
I have just nominated the Byzantine navy article for FA. All editors are invited to participate, all comments are welcome. Thanks, Constantine  ✍  14:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Greek national costumes
Hi all. There's an image which I'm trying to identify the content of - it's been reported that the people in it aren't wearing Greek traditional costumes, as was claimed in the metadata. If anyone could take a look and confirm this, it'd be great - the image is now on Talk:Greek Canadians with a comment. Shimgray | talk | 11:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I checked in my various books on greek traditional costumes. The head-dresses are not greek. Cédric Boissière (talk) 15:27, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Lesbian
The wikipage for lesbian talks all about the sexual phenemenon instead of the inhabitants and the language. While the gay page does mention the original, alternative meaning (and significant mention of it), the lesbian page tends to neglect this. Obviously, not been able to read Greek I can't weigh in with alternative sources and whathaveyou. I was wondering if a reader of the Greek language (preferrably a lesbian (from Lesbos that is, which I imagine is standard in you lexicon) could contribute to the discussion on that page. Lihaas (talk) 02:09, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Exodus of sense from Wikipedia...
Please everyone, check this article: Exodus of ethnic Macedonians from Greece. It gives undue weight to the non-notable part of FYROM origin people leaving Greece after the Civil war, promoting it (it is clear from the title even) to a major event in the Balkans and particularly Greece. It has two way POV (communist-FYROM) and refers to terms such as "Aegean Macedonia". It is the transformation of what once was another article, and this was not done with consensus.--Michael X the White (talk) 18:22, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Help request: 1236 Greece-related articles needing geographical coordinates
Based on a search of Wikipedia's articles related to Greece, I've found some articles that I believe are about places in Greece, and could usefully have geographical coordinates added.

The articles in question are listed in Category:Greece articles missing geocoordinate data. At the time of writing, some examples included:
 * 1) Amphipolis Archaeological Museum
 * 2) Ano Dorio
 * 3) Kalamos, Kythira
 * 4) Kilkis Archaeological Museum
 * 5) Metaxades
 * 6) Níki, Greece
 * 7) Pamisos

...and there are many more, as well. At the time of posting this notice, there were 1236 articles in this category needing geographical coordinates.

Why add coordinates?
By adding coordinates, a Wikipedia reader can easily view the location on a street map, nautical chart, topographic map, by satellite photo, realtime weather map, and in many other ways. Coordinate data makes an article eventually appear in various services such as Google Maps' Wikipedia overlay, Google Earth, and Wikipedia's own internal map service. Coordinate data also helps readers looking for geographically-based data, such as locations near a reference point, or related information.

How can I do it?
The articles are all marked with coord missing tags, which need to be replaced with coord tags that contain the location's latitude/longitude coordinates; or you might be able to add coordinates to an existing infobox. You can find out how to do this at the Geocoding how-to for WikiProject members.

Please let me know if this is useful, or if I can help in any way. -- The Anome (talk) 22:29, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

New coordinator?
It's been days since Yannis left us in a "semi-retired" fashion. Should we vote as to who will replace him as coordinator of WikiProject Greece? This is just a suggestion. Deucalionite (talk) 17:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know, please correct me if I am mistaken or I missed something, but I thought WP:GREECE officially does not anyway have a coordinator...--Michael X the White (talk) 17:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Let me put it this way. Yannis made significant contributions to this WikiProject to the point where he assumed a leadership role. He produced newsletters, attracted users to contribute, and helped articles achieve FA status. Face it, Yannis left a big gap in our ranks and we need to somehow fill it. Any suggestions? Deucalionite (talk) 20:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Which is why I don't see why he left. He should just put that discussion behind him and come back. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I see your point. In that case, however, a member to play the same important role for the WProject will arise by merit and by actions, the same way Yannis did. Even if we vote, the elected will not in any way replace Yannis. So, briefly, I see two possibilities: 1) we either let anyone arise the same way Yannis did or 2) we stage a discussion here about official WP:Greece coordinator(s), their term, responsibilities,etc. (I 100% agree with you Grk1011. There is sometimes a great bitterness that is caused from events and discussions in Wikipedia, especially to a user such as Yannis, that is a positive, active, rare user. When acts against him are such, where there should be reward, bitterness and disappointement walk hand in hand. And Yannis has "invested" much time and good faith in Wikipedia to be treated as he was in that discussion. I think he is a very logical and sensible person, and sensitive enough to take some time off to overcome the bitterness and be back in full force. I think this is unfair for him and disastrous for WP:GREECE, and Wikipedia in general,but, while I'd like him to be back, I also respect his decision and hope this will not last long. I'd like to say here that Yannis took a break because of an unfair accusation of lack of civility, while others, are not only accused, but the accusations are totally fair and correct, and they're still here. Now, I won't mention names, because I'll have trouble and threatening, nor I mention this to accuse someone. I only say this to underline that Yannis is a person with a moral code. It is unfortunate for Wikipedia that users like Yannis, or, earlier, Hectorian, leave and certain others remain.I hope Yannis will be back soon.) --Michael X the White (talk) 21:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It would literally take a miracle for Yannis to come back. Deucalionite (talk) 21:40, 22 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think we need a co-ordinator as such but instead someone who could attempt to do the things thay Yanni did like the newsletter and updating the pages. Also I would like to put this forward, what should happen about the Grek War of Independence drive. Do we consider it defunct? Kyriakos (talk) 11:56, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I say its status is on hold.--Michael X the White (talk) 12:34, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


 * It's first now that I realize how empty this project looks without Yannis' remarks. But he left us a patrimony and we have to go on.  The only thing that gives me any hope is that he is "semi" retired and not "permanently" retired. Η ελπίδα πεθαίνει πάντα τελευταία...  Pel thal (talk) 16:56, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject barnstar abused
I just saw this nice little personal attack clothed in this project's "official" barnstar, left by one nationalist POV-warrior on the talk page of another. I'm not going to remove it myself (me being the intended target, obviously), but I'd appreciate it if somebody told that person that this wikiproject doesn't endorse such actions. Compared with other national projects, this one has in the past been relatively free from nationalist battleground mentality; I'd like it to remain that way. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:27, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * "POV warrior"? You are not talking about yourself, are you? Walnutjk (talk)
 * This issue was brought to WP:ANI here. I have declined to take action, as it seems that Future Perfect should have been the one to bring it up. As it is, it doesn't really seem like something necessary to bring to an admin board, but feel free to comment there. <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">Tan  &#124;  <font color="#21421E" face="Papyrus">39  19:53, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece
I request that all participating members/editors take a look at this pitiful mess - Articles for deletion/Exodus of Ethnic Macedonians from Greece.

Please submit your votes or at least some rational commentary. Thank you Deucalionite (talk) 19:48, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Macedonia userbox
I had in my userpage a userbox, which explained my views about the naming dispute of Fyrom/Macedonia. Unfortunately, it was deleted by an administrator, because it promoted nationalism, he said. Feel free to see what's the official's wikipedia view about this specific topic [].--Alexikoua (talk) 05:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Maniots or Maniates
I have been thinking about this lately I thought I would put it up here before I do anything. Should the article's name be Maniates -the Greek name- or Maniots? All comments are appreciated. Kyriakos (talk) 09:04, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it should be renamed to Maniates, as that is their Greek name. That is just my personal opinion though...  However, maybe we should take into consideration what a non-Greek person would think about first.  Since this is the English WP version, maybe a non-Greek would find it more natural to search/google for Maniots rather than Maniates?  I'm not so sure.  This issue can become more complicated if you think about the consequences of renaming similar articles: for example Tsakonians/Tsakones, Arvanites, Pontic Greeks/Pontioi etc.  If the Greek name is to be used, then all similar articles should be renamed to their Greek version (e.g. Tsakones).  Anyone else on this subject? Pel thal (talk) 14:20, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't WP policy to use the most common english title for the article - hence Elgin Marbles rather than Parthenon Marbles for the relevant page? I prefer Maniots as someone reading about them in an english language book wanting to know more is going to be searching for that term. --5telios (talk) 17:02, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Maniatws gets 25,700 hits on Google compared to the Maniots 6,080. It seems that Maniates is the most common of the two. If the name i s to change, it would take a massive overwhole, which I would be willing to do. Kyriakos (talk) 23:43, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I would caution that most of those Google hits are for the name Maniates, a fairly common surname for people from the region. If you remove the proper names, you will find that Maniots, however discordant that may sound to speakers of Greek, is the most common English designation for the people. Perhaps a better measure would be not the number of Google hits, which are fairly indiscriminate, but the number of hits on an English language academic database like JSTOR. I performed this search myself, and once I had discounted the musicologist Maria Rika Maniates, the economist Michael Maniates, etc, the results are squarely in favor of Maniots. Aramgar (talk) 00:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Vassilis Makris
Unfortunately I cannot read Greek. Is Vassilis Makris -- allegedly translated from the Greek by an editor of four years' experience whose self-intro starts "I am from the free Universe. I will bring humans super-advanced technology right from outer space. I am a kid." -- a grotesque attempt at a deserved article, or should it just be PRODded into oblivion? -- Hoary (talk) 01:44, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi! Just read the Greek article on Vassilis Makris.  Believe it or not, the English edition is an actual translation of the Greek version.  However, the English article needs cleaning up because in its present state it sounds like a bad translation from the Greek...  I'll try to work on it today or tomorrow.  Cheers! Pel thal (talk) 13:19, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! But if it is indeed a translation then it's highly suspect, as it seems to have a total of zero independent sources. (Or does badness of translation extend to zapping sources?) Even if you don't have time/effort/interest to source all of this (and I wouldn't blame you), could you perhaps google the fellow and just reassure yourself that he's for real? Thanks! -- Hoary (talk) 15:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Just googled Vassilis Makris in Greek and yes, he exists. I'm not going to add sources because I'd like to be sure of their correctness etc. but I will certainly clean up the language and see if the Greek version cites any veritable sources.  Happy editing! Pel thal (talk) 15:53, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks muchly. -- Hoary (talk) 23:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Eww, why is there a double "s"? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Concerning the double "s", it has probably been named so in order for the reader to pronounce it correctly (as an "s" and not as a "z"). However, we can always change it.  Concerning the article, I have just cleaned up its language.  If you can think of an even better translation, please feel free to help.  I'm sure that there are several articles horribly translated; anyone who comes across such an article, please put it on this page so we can clean it up.  Happy editing to everyone!  Pel thal (talk) 12:22, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Aromanians
May i ask why the Aromanians page falls under the wing of Wiki Project:Greece? PMK1 (talk) 12:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Because, as stated in the article, it is a language spoken even in Greece by Vlachoi. Pel thal (talk) 13:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Greek spellings in English transliteration
Personally, I speak Greek as a first language and am often disappointed with some of the spellings on Wikipedia and Greek American websites. User:Grk1011 tells me that Wikipedia as a whole decided to use a 'G' any time there is a Gamma in Greek. However, I created the article Yia Sena (album by Sakis Rouvas) and although it has been registered by IFPI as so, the previous user has changed my article to Gia Sena. I have a couple of Grammatical rules that I think would be useful to Greek editors of Wiki and that make the most sense in pronunciation:


 * Gamma (Γ/γ) when alone should be written G/g (ex: Γάτα ↔ gata)
 * Gamma + Iota (Γι/γι) (or whenever pronounced as a 'y') should be spellt Yi or Y (ex: Γιάννης ↔ Yiannis)
 * Epsilon + Iota + Sigma (εις) at the end of 2nd person verbs should be written eis in the 2nd person (Τρέχεις ↔ Treheis) but only with an I in 3rd person (ex:Τρέχει ↔ Trehi)
 * χ (Chis) should be written as 'H' in most cases (ex: Χρόνο ↔ Hrono) unless there is a conflict that would effect the pronunciation of the word (ex: Πασχάλης ↔ Paschalis)
 * Ni + Taf (ΝΤ/ντ) should not be written as 'NT' of 'D' in English, BUT RATHER ND (ex: Άντε ↔ Ande)
 * Gamma + Gamma (ΓΓ/γγ) (pronounced ng) should not be written as 'GG' because it does not represent the 'n' sound in the word. Instead, it should be written 'ng' (ex: Άγγελος ↔ Angelos or angel)

I really think that these general rules could make wikipedia a better place for Greek articles. Please respond and tell me what you think. If the reader can't correctly pronounce the article because of transliteration errors, then their comprehension is hindered, and remember that WIKI is about giving knowledge. I have studied Greek literature and orthography for many years and I believe that these are the best possible alternative to some of the tragic spelling errors I have witnessed. They are the most functional and go with WIKI rules. (GreekStar12 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2008 (UTC))
 * I agree with most of her ideas, but I'm not ready to make drastic changes without knowing where consensus lies. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with most, but not all. I do not see the reason for two different options in point 3). Since we have the exact same phenomenon, we should use the same transliteration. Especially since Latin transliteration is usually not phonetic, "ei" should stay "ei" whenever found. On point 4), the Greek Chi is a "hard" h-sound, not the soft, unvoiced h of English. To represent that, "ch" or "kh" are almost universally used by transliteration standards. "H" is still used, but IMO it is inaccurate. On point 2), both Gi- and Yi- are used, but the former much more; one sees Giorgos far more often than Yiorgos or Yorgos. Personally, I'd stay with the Gi-, for reasons of consistency: if γ- is rendered as a "g" before ε, υ, αι, ει, etc., then it should also be rendered so before ι. Regards, Constantine  ✍  20:02, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, "ch" is not an appropriate transliteration because when I see "ch" I want to pronounce it like the "ch" in "cheese" which is a completely different sound and the sound that people are taught in school that those letters make together; same with why we wouldn't want "Pashalis" because of the "sh" like "sheep". A close pronunciation of Chi does exist in the English language, such as in the words hew or human. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 20:17, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree that with many English-speakers, "ch" could easily be mistaken for the "tsh" sound. However, the "Ch" transliteration derives from its use by the Romans, and is well-established. The "kh" form is more used in modern transliterations that attempt to get both orthography and phonology right. Personally, I've come across this mostly in Byzantine-related books, where the latinized forms are increasingly being discarded (e.g. Palaiologos/Palaeologus), so that one nowadays finds forms like tagmatarkhēs instead of older tagmatarches (Latinized) or tagmatarch (Anglicized). However, Wikipedia states that the most common/easily recognizable form must be used, so one must be careful. Where the "ch" has been established (i.e. in most historical articles, from Chaeronea to Charilaos Trikoupis), it should remain. Constantine  ✍  23:03, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Let me refine the parameters then. We are talking about spellings for modern Greek in articles for albums and singles of Greek singers such as Anna Vissi, Elena Paparizou, and Sakis Rouvas. There are no existing spellings or anything like that, we're not talking about anything in history books for example where these terms would have already have an established transliteration. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 03:48, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Aha, I see. Although I am not an expert on the subject, it has been my impression that with album titles, a more phonetic approach is used, i.e. Γι- would be rendered Yi- or Y-, Χ- becomes H-, ει becomes i, σ is rendered ss, etc. Although the result is sometimes distinctly ugly, it makes sense, since we are dealing with the rendering of a song or album title. In that case, the proposals above should be OK, perhaps with the addition of the "ss" rule too. It would be advisable, however, to check whether a song already has an established transliteration (e.g. when released for foreign markets or international contests) and to also add redirects of the transliteration variants. Regards, Constantine  ✍  09:53, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, I would just say no to the double "ss" cause it does not really make sense, a sigma makes the same sound as a single "s". Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 15:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * If you want to go by phonetic transliteration, I'd advise you to use it when between vowels (forgot to clarify that above), since "s" is then usually read as "z" in English. For instance, the Athens Metro uses this transliteration, e.g. the "Megaro Moussikis" station, but I've seen it also on songs e.g. "Yassou Maria". It looks weird, but then, so does the Y-... Constantine  ✍  17:03, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wait, since when is an "s" pronounced as a "z" in English?? I lived in America all my life and have never heard of that before. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, "easy" is pronounced "ήζυ", not "ήσυ", "release" is pronounced "ρηλήζ", "as" is pronounced "αζ", etc. Whenever there is a long (stressed) vowel before an "s" (and when an "s" lies between two vowels), it is pronounced "z". It is a phonological phenomenon found in other languages as well... Cheers, Constantine  ✍  21:50, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm, never thought of that. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 13:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Epirus (region)
The Albanian name for Epirus and places in Epirus has been added in most articles, with the excuse that it is the name used by people who lived in there (they mean Albanians). Well, specifically in Epirus region it has been added with the excuse of being an official name. Yet, it seems that Epirus is not officially recognised by Albania. However, when Ii removed the name, someone replaced it. It just makes no sense. --Michael X the White (talk) 17:51, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Also check Vlore for the same reason.It seems this was not resolved when we thought.--Michael X the White (talk) 21:23, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency
The lead of Pelion includes the following phrase: "When the giants Otus and Ephialtes attempted to storm Olympus, they piled Mount Pelion upon Mount Ossa."

The lead of Mount Ossa (Greece) includes the following phrase: "In Greek mythology, the Aloades are said to have attempted to pile it upon Mount Pelion, in their attempt to scale Olympus."

Something is wrong here. Either one is correct and the other is wrong, or both are correct and refer to two separate events. In the first case, one of the two articles should be corrected. In the second case, both articles should mention both events. --Cryptic C62 · Talk 16:14, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it was Pelion on Ossa...--Michael X the White (talk) 16:23, 2 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Homer says Pelion on Ossa (Odyssey 11.315-6); Vergil imitates the lines but reverses the order (Georgics 1.281-2). Both versions have appeared in literature since. It's mythology; it's not like there's a canonical version. Aramgar (talk) 23:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Greeks
There is currently an altercation between myself and Future Perfect regarding the origins of the Greeks. I have consistently provided secondary sources in accordance to WP:RS whereas Future insists on maintaining a "consensus view" based on one tertiary source. Instead of engaging in an intellectual debate with me, he has merely used bureaucratic jargon and useless insults. I would greatly appreciate any help available. Thanks. Deucalionite (talk) 16:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

riots
Could someone explain ot me how come the riots article is C-class? And what does that mean? I can see at the assessment department that C-class is only there "for ilustrative purposes".--Michael X the White (talk) 12:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, C-class (which has not been adopted by all projects) means that the article is good but may still have some issues that prevent it from being rated B-class. These issues vary from article to article but mean that more work is needed: more or better sources, grammar and style clean-up, expanded coverage of certain points, etc. In this case, I think the rating reflects the fact that the riots are an ongoing current event. It is not yet possible to provide complete coverage because the situation is still developing. Kafka Liz (talk) 12:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit sceptical about rating the riots' article as mid-priority. Maybe because I live in Athens I see it as an article of high-importance, at least until the riots are over.  However, I do not know the exact WPpolicy for rating the priority of an article. Pel thal (talk) 13:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd call it high priority. It should be rated based on its notability compared to similar things (other Greek riots), not its importance to Greece in general. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 14:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Anyone can change that rating any time. I'd certainly put it higher on priority but lower on quality right now. Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:27, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It should definitely be higher priority. I'm glad to see this has been changed. Kafka Liz (talk) 13:07, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

C-class?
About C-Class I've twice tried to open a discussion here about whether we need or not this category. My opinion is that we don't, and that this additional category is useless; B-Class and Start work fine. I expected and expect more views on that. Now, as far as the priority is concerned, it is clearly high.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree.--Michael X the White (talk) 16:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I like C-class and have been using it for some time. There is a vast difference between a Start and B-class article. Start is only a stub that asserts notability, while B-class has reasonable coverage and is near ready for GA status. C-class fits in between nicely. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Could we decide something more official? If there is no explanation for C-Class in the assessment department then there no real assessment in articles that are C-class. There are two ways: 1) Not having C-class in WP:GREECE assessments or 2) having an explanation of what C-class means and a guide for assessment and promotion/demotion to C-class. Any suggestions?--Michael X the White (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Most projects just take the guidelines from Assessment_scale since overall, the scale was developed for the use of rating articles for inclusion on the CD-ROM version of wiki, so we should be going by their scale. We just haven't updated with the times. Now having C-class does not mean any extra work, just do it on a case by case basis, no one needs to go through assessing every article again. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 17:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Mission
Looking through the article, it is now looking great, thanks to all of you that helped. Give yourself a pat on the back. Before we nominate the article for GAC, it would be great if someone could addressed the 'Massacres' part of the article as it has a'citations needed tag'. Also the last paragraphs of the 'European Intervention' sections need some cits if someone can do it, that would be great. So once again brilliant work and here's to a successful GAC and later on hopefully a successfully FAC. Kyriakos (talk) 22:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll read it over to check spelling, grammar, etc. soon. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 22:54, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, much improved. If the consensus within our team is to go to GAC, I'll be there and help. But I listed in the mission's page what IMO the article still needs, in order to reach the high quality we wish. Meanwhile, I'll keep working on it (after a few days break!).--Yannismarou (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Cybele
Can anyone address the naming issues of Cybele over at Talk:Cybele? El Greco(talk) 23:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

TfD for Infobox Greek Dimos
There is a TfD discussion for Infobox Greek Dimos, presumably to replace the template with a standardised Infobox settlement. Comments supporting or opposing the template's deletion are welcome. Cheers. – Liveste (talk • edits) 10:36, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Come on guys, we have HOW many members and what, three people have contributed so far. Take an active role in the WikiProject and express your views. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:09, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

It's the riots again
A few weeks ago, a few users, in absense of all of us and while some of us expressed their will against (that was me,NikoSilver,PelThal,DerBlaueReiter), asked and achieved renaming 2008 Greek riots to 2008 civil unrest in Greece. Now, they seem to support that there is civil unrest in Greece and that all this is ongoing and the article should be renamed to 2008-2009 civil unrest in Greece. There are some of us who want to rename this back to 2008 Greek riots.
 * A lot of users that have contributed very much to this article have not given their opinion for these changes. Please do so in Talk:2008 Greek riots (with its new name of course). Thank you!--Michael X the White (talk) 13:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

τριορχης
I cited the above word at Eutriorchis, but I don't know what diacritical marks it takes. If anyone is interested in adding them (or letting me know what to add), feel free. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 20:19, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * τριόρχης. Done. Aramgar (talk) 23:11, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah! I'm so proud of myself. I secretly though it went there, but was too unsure to say :) Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 23:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * * cuts and pastes from dictionary* ευχαριστώ. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 04:56, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Okhi/Ohi Day
There is currently a discussion underway to decide the most appropriate name for Okhi/Ohi Day. Please weigh in by following this link. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 14:13, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Help w/ question on Reference Desk
Hi, I asked a question about the Greek language over on the Language Reference Desk on January 19 (see Reference desk/Language) that still hasn't been answered adequately. If some Greek speakers could weigh in and help answer the question, I'd be grateful. —Lowellian (reply) 05:58, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I think I answered the question but other native Greek speakers take a look as well. Pel thal (talk) 10:41, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Topics that shouldn't be in this project
I spotted that the article Chord (music) is flagged on its discussion page as being within the scope of this project. The word "chord" is derived from a Greek word, but I think that's too tenuous a connection. I intend to remove the article from the project. Red van man (talk) 12:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, there are many articles that have been tagged in a similar manner. This has been discussed here in the past. Feel free to remove the project tags whenever you come across them. Cheers, Constantine  ✍  13:40, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

A map again
As I have already written in a section above, there is a lengthy and very important debate still going on in 2008 Greek riots (with the new name). {Just reminding)

Could someone please give their opinion about this: ?? It seems a little strange to me.--Michael X the White (talk) 20:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Milestone Announcements
I thought this WikiProject might be interested. Ping me with any specific queries or leave them on the page linked to above. Thanks! - Jarry1250 (t, c) 21:54, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

RFC!!!
The renaming matter is now an RFC in Talk:2008 civil unrest in Greece. Since this is a Greece-realted topic, I call everyone to participate.--Michael X the White (talk) 08:59, 6 February 2009 (UTC)


 * it doesn't seem like there are a lot of people interested... Der Blaue Reiter (talk) 16:16, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There never are here :( Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 16:25, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's due to the intimidation tactics of the "all-knowing" Anthellenes, some of which even are around here sometimes.--Michael X the White (talk) 17:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Coordinators' working group
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.

All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. &mdash; Delievered by §hepBot  ( Disable )  on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:33, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Byzantine navy FAC
Hello to all! The second FAC of the Byzantine navy article is under way. Any help, constructive criticism and (hopefully) support votes, would be most welcome! Thanks in advance and best regards, Constantine  ✍  19:09, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Northern Epirotes
I've created this article, but it seems someone wants to delete minority groups. I explained what the diferrence between the term 'official Greek minority zone' by the Albanian state and 'Northern Epirote' by the official Greek migration organization. Can't really understand whats the real problem.Alexikoua (talk) 12:47, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually I hoped that in wikipedia ethnic groups can be name with their self-indentification. Hope this is true. The Northern Epirotes by wiki standarts are not a ethno-linguistic group with their own heritage and dialect. Some dictator would be very hapy today.Alexikoua (talk) 15:19, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Straw poll
A straw poll on the application of the name of the Republic of Macedonia/Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia on the article Greece has started here. Interested parties are kindly invited to participate in both the relevant discussion and straw poll, expressing their views.--Yannismarou (talk) 22:42, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Deletion log
Could the member of the project have a look to the Greece-related deletion log? There are some very interesting discussions still open there, and feedback is needed. One of the articles in question is the following one commented by Constantine. See also the deletion discussions for Macedonians (Greeks), and for certain articles treating the foreign relations of Greece with other states. Thanks!--Yannismarou (talk) 11:26, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Negush uprising
OK, I wish I could laugh about this, but it is a so blatant attempt to leech off other peoples' history that it becomes tragic: Negush uprising. Even Markos Botsaris becomes a proto-Macedonian hero... Since my instinctive reactions are not likely to be covered by Wiki-etiquette, I am notifying you guys... Τί άλλο θα δούμε ακόμα... Constantine  ✍  17:40, 10 April 2009 (UTC)


 * There is an AfD open for this little gem. Please cast your votes. Constantine  ✍  11:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Poll: autoformatting and date linking
This is to let people know that there is only a day or so left on a poll. The poll is an attempt to end years of argument about autoformatting which has also led to a dispute about date linking. Your votes are welcome at: Date formatting and linking poll. Regards Lightmouse (talk) 11:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Rename article, your opinion?
I propose to rename Heroic Age to Heroes of the Greek Heroic Age. Please keep the discussion on that article's talk page. Debresser (talk) 22:19, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Greek War of Independence
Looking over the article, I think it is nearly GA material. So before we nominate it, can anyone who has time read over it and address any issue as well as adding refs where the citation needed tags are. Kyriakos (talk) 00:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll go through the article tonight, but unfortunately I'm miles away from my library! Anyway, if you feel that you can support the article during GAC, go for it, and I'll also try to be there helping as much as I can!--Yannismarou (talk) 21:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Having a first look at the lead, what is for sure is that the article needs copy-editing!--Yannismarou (talk) 21:19, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Can anyone get a good copy editor onto it? Kyriakos (talk) 22:58, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I am now working on the first sections of the article (which look quite good for GA, but I am also enriching them with sources from JSTOR and GoogleBook&mdash;personally, it is the best I can do), but there are various issues which should be taken care. E.g. in "Danubian principalities" I see dates also mentioned according to the OS. Why? And how are they checked? Isn't it a bit inconsistent with the rest of the article? Also, what are we going to do with the "Gallery"? etc. etc. --Yannismarou (talk) 23:23, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "Massacres" is a mess, and by the way does anybody know anybody who can make good maps (we already had this discussion!)?--Yannismarou (talk) 23:26, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I can't remember anyone off the top of my head. I always thought that the gallery isn't needed but the problem is fitting in all those images into the article. I also don't see a need for the OS dates. I'll tweak some bits and pieces in the artcle. Kyriakos (talk) 23:29, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Concerning the dates, we must be sure that whatever we choose, we are consistent and accurate throughout the article. The gallery should go, but I did not remove it yet, because I wanted to see if I could use any of the images, after rewriting the sections, without overloading the article and sandwitching the text with images at the same time.--Yannismarou (talk) 23:57, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok. It's too late now, but I warn you that tomorrow I'll work a bit on the "Massacres" section. Don't worry! I'll do my best to keep it NPOV.--Yannismarou (talk) 01:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Good luck, it will be a trick section. Kyriakos (talk) 06:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm also going through the pictures' copyrights one by one, which is a very tricky and difficult task, because most of the article's pictures have problematic summaries. If we go to FAC with the current situation, we shall not even pass the technical review!--Yannismarou (talk) 11:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I could make some maps, although I will have time only after Easter. Constantine  ✍  13:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Even if they are not ready for GAC (our coordinator will estimate when it is time to go there), they will be for FAC. I'll come to your page with further details about what I had found to the net.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
 * "The Filiki Eteria rapidly expanded, gaining members in almost all regions of Greek settlement, amongst them figures who would later play a prominent role in the war, such as Theodoros Kolokotronis, Odysseas Androutsos, Papaflessas, Dimitris Plapoutas, and Laskarina Bouboulina." Could somebody offer a more reliable source for that besides Paroulakis?--Yannismarou (talk) 22:36, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Move of article Republic of Macedonia
The article on the Republic of Macedonia has recently been moved to the article Macedonia, which had earlier been a disambiguation page. Anyone interested in discussing the move may feel free to do so at Talk:Macedonia or at the thread on the move at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Thank you. John Carter (talk) 20:08, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Ottoman Empire
Please give your views at WikiProject Council/Proposals/Ottoman Empire. --Al Ameer son (talk) 04:13, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Macedonia (terminology) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:26, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Greek dialects
Hello, I think someone must reevaluate this article. Regards.--Auslli (talk) 12:57, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Greek Language
So this other one.--Auslli (talk) 13:03, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Transliteration of Greek into English
On | Rembetiko's talkpage, someone wrote: According to the etymology of the Greek word acknowledged by most scholars - rembos, rembazo, spelled with mu-beta - the only correct English spelling is REMBETIKO (sc. tragoudi, song). I'm afraid a Google search is not a reliable proof for anything, and the Library of Congress serves practical goals and has nothing to do with orthography: the system used there is based on Ancient Greek spelling and is never used for transliteration of Modern Greek words into English. Although a form with -b- is by now also common, it is much more preferable to write the words "rembetiko", "rembetika" (pl.), "rembetes" with -mb-. --Vladimir Boskovic (talk) 15:33, 25 April 2009 (UTC). I don't know about the WP policy concerning the transliteration of (modern) Greek words into English so I didn't want to change the title myself but I think that our fellow wikipedian is right. In Greek the word ρεμπέτικο is actually pronounced -mb. All views are welcome! Happy editing! Pel thal (talk) 15:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Ioannis Papadopoulos
Just a heads up on the movement and update of a few links which I have just made here:


 * I was looking for information on the chess grandmaster Ioannis Papadopoulos and found that name redirected to the football player Giannis Papadopoulos due to a move.
 * Since there was no article on the chess player Ioannis Papadopoulos I have put up a stub article.
 * A few football related articles had links to "Ioannis Papadopoulos", I have updated them to point directly to "Giannis Papadopoulos", since I assume that Olympiakos would want a football player more than a chess player.
 * The article Minister for Macedonia–Thrace (Greece) had another "Ioannis Papadopoulos" which first pointed to the football player, then pointed to the chess player, but I don't think either is correct, since the Papadopoulos was minister 1985-1987 before the football and chess players were born. So it is now a redlink, pointing to Ioannis Papadopoulos (politician); I couldn't see we had an article on this person, but cabinet members are almost certainly notable and deserve an article.

It appears that this is a popular name, and I wonder if a disambiguation at "Ioannis Papadopoulos" with links to Ioannis Papadopoulos (chess player), Ioannis Papadopoulos (politician), and possibly others, may be appropriate. Since I think the people at WP:GREECE know more about this than I do, I'll do my best to not interfere anymore. :-) Sjakkalle (Check!)  09:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

Greek diaspora articles at AfD
There are currently seven Greek diaspora-related articles being considered for deletion at AfD. Many have recently been relisted after running for seven days with little discussion. They have been added to the deletion sorting list for Greece, but it seems no one from your WikiProject has seen/commented on them yet. Have a read over the articles; if you are aware of any non-trivial, reliable secondary sources (newspaper articles, papers in academic journals, or book chapters) on the below topics, or if you can confirm that no such sources exist, your opinion will be appreciated at the below deletion discussions: Thanks, cab (talk) 03:30, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Greeks in Poland - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Poland
 * Greeks in Kyrgyzstan - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Kyrgyzstan
 * Greeks in Panama - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Panama
 * Greeks in Venezuela - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Venezuela
 * Greeks in Cuba - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Cuba
 * Greeks in Ireland - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Ireland
 * Greeks in Luxembourg - Articles for deletion/Greeks in Luxembourg

Proto Helladic period
See question on Talk:Helladic period, thanks.--Doug Coldwell talk 16:50, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

New Task Force: Universities in Greece
I believe that Wikiproject Greece has not given much attention to improving the articles about Greek universities. Therefore I would like to propose the creation of a new task force whose main aim will be to upgrade all Greek university articles to the A status. I know that this sounds very ambitious, but I think that it is feasible. Since I am a graduate of the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki, I have adopted this article in the past and I believe that I have improved it a lot. It is rated now as B class and I think that I can upgrade it even further to the A class with a little more effort. Finally, I believe that this task force should ideally consist of graduates from various Greek Universities, so that each graduate can contribute to the article about his/her university. What do you think about this? Are there any volunteers out there to join this effort? --Chggr (talk) 11:23, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Truce term
Hi. I'm writing an article on truce terms and would like to know what Greek children use. Truce terms are words used by children, usually under the age of about 11, to call a temporary halt or respite to the game to do something like tie a shoelace or discuss the rules or take off a jacket. I really need a source as well. They're often mentioned in etymological or regional dictionaries.Fainites barley scribs 19:55, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

AfD
The stub for Argentina-Greece relations is up for deletion. If anyone can find sources to rescue the article you'll be doing better than I did with English-language sources. Articles_for_deletion/Argentina–Greece_relations. Fences and windows (talk) 22:59, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Added in WikiProject Deletion sorting/Greece, but it is not the only Greece-x country relations in AfD. There are 4 more. I don't think that something more or better than the data and info provided by the respective mfas can be found.--Yannismarou (talk) 00:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposed category overhaul for settlements
Hi. I've noticed some considerable overlap with Category:Cities and towns in Greece which in my view is too full with Category:Villages in Greece and it various sub cats. What I propose is to to a complete overhaul of the settlement category system as with many other countries and created e.g Category:Cities, towns and villages in the Athens Prefecture. This way we debloat the parent categories and organise neatly me prefecture of Greece and any settement within that perfecture will go in the relative category. So basically all settlements would be organised by prefecture for Category:Cities, towns and villages in Greece? What does anybody think. I recently did Category:Cities, towns and villages in Turkey and it is much better organised now. Then we can remove the villages categories and created highly organised ones for all settlements by prefecture avoiding confusing duble categories etc. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 21:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Instead of that long category Category:Cities, towns and villages in the Athens Prefecture, couldn't you still call it Category:Settlements in Athens Prefecture? Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 22:01, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The convention seems to be cities, towns and villages to avoid confusing what or what shuold not be included. Dr. Blofeld (talk) 10:35, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't disagree in principle, but I would like to have the full scheme of categories as you have them in mind from national to local level, because I am a bit confused!--Yannismarou (talk) 10:43, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

All settlements would be reorganised by prefecture. This would avoid cluttering the Cities and towns category with small villages, and clogging up villages in Greece with towns etc when many of them are unrelated e.g a village on the island of Kos for example may be in the Cities and towns in Greece cat. By geographical ordering we have ALL related settlements with a given geogrpahical region/prefecture of Greece in one category, simplifying the whole system and standardising in relation to other countries which are done in this way. We have 1200 articles in Cities and towns in Greece but we all know there are not really 1200 actual "cities" in Greece, somehow many villages got tagged with this category.Dr. Blofeld (talk) 15:19, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually it would be better to organise them by region so it would be e.g Category:Cities, towns and villages in the Ionian Islands:

1. Attica 2. Central Greece 3. Central Macedonia 4. Crete 5. East Macedonia and Thrace 6. Epirus 7. Ionian Islands 8. North Aegean 9. Peloponnese 10. South Aegean 11. Thessaly 12. West Greece 13. West Macedonia

Does your WikiProject care about talk pages of redirects?
Does your project care about what happens to the talk pages of articles that have been replaced with redirects? If so, please provide your input at User:Mikaey/Request for Input/ListasBot 3. Thanks, Matt (talk) 01:54, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for a 200-WikiProject contest
A proposal has been posted for a contest between all 200 country WikiProjects. We're looking for judges, coordinators, ideas, and feedback.

The Transhumanist 00:39, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps invitation
This message is being sent to WikiProjects with GAs under their scope. Since August 2007, WikiProject Good Articles has been participating in GA sweeps. The process helps to ensure that articles that have passed a nomination before that date meet the GA criteria. After nearly two years, the running total has just passed the 50% mark. In order to expediate the reviewing, several changes have been made to the process. A new worklist has been created, detailing which articles are left to review. Instead of reviewing by topic, editors can consider picking and choosing whichever articles they are interested in.

We are always looking for new members to assist with reviewing the remaining articles, and since this project has GAs under its scope, it would be beneficial if any of its members could review a few articles (perhaps your project's articles). Your project's members are likely to be more knowledgeable about your topic GAs then an outside reviewer. As a result, reviewing your project's articles would improve the quality of the review in ensuring that the article meets your project's concerns on sourcing, content, and guidelines. However, members can also review any other article in the worklist to ensure it meets the GA criteria.

If any members are interested, please visit the GA sweeps page for further details and instructions in initiating a review. If you'd like to join the process, please add your name to the running total page. In addition, for every member that reviews 100 articles from the worklist or has a significant impact on the process, s/he will get an award when they reach that threshold. With ~1,300 articles left to review, we would appreciate any editors that could contribute in helping to uphold the quality of GAs. If you have any questions about the process, reviewing, or need help with a particular article, please contact me or OhanaUnited and we'll be happy to help. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 06:06, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Help needed on translating names in greek alphabet to english alphabet
Dear Wikiproject:Greece,

The Greek political party Κόμμα Φιλελευθέρων/Komma Fileleftheron has released the names of its candidates for the 2009 Euroelections. There are 22 of them and they are given here, with their names rendered in the Greek alphabet. I have added them to the (much larger) List of Libertas list candidates at the 2009 European Parliament elections. But I am unsure that I have rendered them correctly into the English alphabet, and I am concerned that in some cases I have gotten their family names and their forenames mixed up. I would be grateful if somebody could look at List of Libertas list candidates at the 2009 European Parliament elections and confirm that I hasve rendered the Greek candidate names correctly.

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 23:24, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Erm, first and foremost, the claim of a tiny party founded in the 1980s to represent the original Liberal Party is spurious at best. The original was one of the biggest political parties in the history of Greece, as for the supposed "continuation", I doubt if most Greeks are even aware of its existence. For NPOV and factual accuracy reasons alone, the two should not be lumped together, and I suggest that a new article is created for the current party. Second, I'll check the names, no problem. Constantine  ✍  23:43, 22 May 2009 (UTC)


 * I take your point: I did attempt to cross-ref with the gr.wiki article here but that had no info on the 80's incarnation/usurper, so I couldn't say one way or the other, although since the votes gotten at election by the 80's party are about 1% of those gotten by the earlier party, it seems obvious that you are correct. So if you want to separate the article into two, please be my guest.


 * Thanks for checking the names: if I've gotten the first name-second name-last name order mixed up, I'd look really stupid.


 * Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 02:46, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

New Featured Article for your WikiProject
Hi, you might be happy to hear that the Euclidean algorithm, an article assessed by your WikiProject, was promoted to Featured Article a few days ago. Much encouragement, Proteins (talk) 04:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Greece-Kyrgyzstan relations
Please help find sources for the article Articles for deletion/Greece-Kyrgyzstan relations. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 15:41, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Korissia is misplaced.
I'm afraid Korissia is a port in Kea (Κέα, Τζιά) and not in Corfu. In Google Earth it appears in Kea but when you click on it, there appears a text from wikipedia saying it is in Corfu (far away from there). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.129.172.173 (talk) 12:24, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Signpost
Hi there :) I'm from the Wikipedia Signpost and I was looking to interview an active contributor to this project. If anyone is interested (I would greatly appreciate it) please contact me at my talk.  Thanks! <font style="color:#9999CC;">weburiedoursecretsinthe <font style="color:#000099;">garden  19:49, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Sophocles GAR notice
Sophocles has been nominated for a good article reassessment. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to good article quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. Reviewers' concerns are here.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 23:43, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Andreas Savvides - help needed with greek language sources.
Hi, I hoping someone from this project can help a new user. I've recently been looking at a new article on Andreas Savvides, apparently an athlete/commando/scientist from Cyprus. The material is detailed, but the claims are quite bold. The contributor, Charls Andre, has offered to send in scans of the newspaper articles he used to source this, so I'd like to assume good faith. Would someone be able to assist him (or perhaps comfirm that it is a hoax - it is currently up for PROD) Marasmusine (talk) 08:25, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It looks like a hoax. I've never heard of the guy and a Google search in Greek reveals nothing.--Damac (talk) 14:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If not a hoax, it seems to fail notability. But, indeed, there is much nonsensical information in the article. In any case, as I said to Charls, I am willing to review any sources he/she can provide via mail.--Yannismarou (talk) 17:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Greek love deletion, renaming or merge proposal
The article Greek love was found to have multiple problems. A proposal to delete the article was made and an IP editor came through and added two projects to the articles talk page, this project and WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome.

Please take a moment to weigh in on this discussion here. Thank you.--Amadscientist (talk) 19:44, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

FAR Names of the Greeks
nominated Names of the Greeks for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Regards, &mdash; Mattisse (Talk) 16:43, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Giannis Ploutarxos
I came across Giannis Ploutarxos at NPP. I'm not coming up with much in a Google search, but I have a feeling sources will be in Greek. Anyone who wants to take a stab at determining notability, please have at it. Thanks!-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  22:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Resolved thanks to a kind editor who fixed the transcription.-- Fabrictramp |  talk to me  16:11, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Turkish Airlines Flight 1476 GA Sweeps: On Hold
I have reviewed Turkish Airlines Flight 1476 for GA Sweeps to determine if it still qualifies as a Good Article. In reviewing the article I have found several issues, which I have detailed here. Since the article falls under the scope of this project, I figured you would be interested in contributing to further improve the article. Please comment there to help the article maintain its GA status. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 00:46, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 peer review
Hello! There is a peer review of the Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 going on over at WPMILHIST. Everyone is invited to give his opinion and supply criticism! Cheers, Constantine  ✍  08:56, 3 July 2009 (UTC)


 * An A-Class review is on for the article at WPMILHIST. Anyone interested is welcome to pitch in! Constantine  ✍  13:00, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject TRANSWIKI
You are all invited to join WikiProject TRANSWIKI and join the Greek language transwiki project. The aim is to draw up a full directory of missing articles from Greek wikipedia and build a team of translators to work at bridging the gaps in knowledge and to improve existing articles by translation. We need your help, so if there are any Greek speakers here please join up as your language skills are crucial. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 16:50, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I would like to help out with the translations, although I can't promise too much because of real-life obligations and holidays coming up ;) Pel thal (talk) 08:12, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment of The Battle of Alexander at Issus
I have done a GA Reassessment of The Battle of Alexander at Issus as part of the GA Sweeps project. I have found the article to nearly meet the current GA Criteria. I did see a couple of issues that cause me to not immediately keep the article at GA. I have placed it on hold for a week pending work. My review can be found here. I am notifying all interested projects and editors in the hopes that work can be done. Should you have questions please contact me on my talk page. H1nkles (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 FAC
Hello to all! The FAC for the Byzantine civil war of 1341–1347 is open! I know it's kind of a dead season, but any input would be appreciated! Regards, Constantine  ✍  18:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Vyzas F.C. squad
Hello there. Could someone compare the current squad of Vyzas F.C. with information on their official webpage? I can't read your albhabet :)) Is our info correct? Several IP's changed the article since June and today User:Ioannis Marougkas 10 created erroneous articles about their players. We need to check it. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you. --Vejvančický (talk) 15:52, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The first theatre and actors in Greece
What was the first theatre in this country with professional actors of both genders? Who is counted as the first professional actor and actress respectively? My question is not about the ancient theatre, but of the more modern form of European theatre. Thank you in advance for those who can answer!--Aciram (talk) 23:01, 28 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The net say the first modern theatre was founded in Athens in 1840. [] What was it called? And who were the first actors and actresses? I would be grateful if anyone could reply on my talkpage! Regards. --Aciram (talk) 14:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Kalamatiano article
Take a look at this. I think it should be deleted completely as long as it does not cite any sources and it is poorly written. Comments? Pel thal (talk) 11:57, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Help needed with Ancient Greek translation
The Kingdom of Croatia (medieval) was a Byzantine vassal for quite a while. We have Latin, but we also need Greek for full balance. The trouble is, I never studied Greek and don't know how to translate "Kingdom of Croatia" :P. The best I could come-up with was "βασιλεία η Κροατία", though I'm not sure that's ok :). For a full translation we'd need to translate the following into Ancient Greek: ...which were the two names used for the Kingdom by various sources. I'm aware Ancient and modern Greek are quite different, but I figure if anyone's gonna know its you guys... :) -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 09:14, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) "Kingdom of Croatia
 * 2) "Kingdom of the Croats" or "Croat Kingdom"


 * In Byzantine sources, Croatia is mentioned as Χροβατία or Χρωβατία (Chrovatia), and the people as Χρωβάτοι. As for the "kingdom" part, the Byzantines never applied the term βασιλεύς to rulers other than the Byzantine (and occasionally the Holy Roman) emperors. IIRC, in the De Administrando (written in the 930s), the only term used for the ruler of the Croats is archon, i.e. ἄρχων Χρωβατίας would be the term for "Lord of Croatia". The title "king", being a papal donation, may not ever have been formally recognized by the Byzantines. I'll check up on the 11th-century situation though. Constantine  ✍  11:25, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Constantine is 100% correct. The term βασιλεύς is actually Imperator and the lesser "kings" were referred to as "rex". In general in De administrando imperio, none other than the Byznatine/Roman Emperor is referred to as βασιλεύς/imperator.--Michael X the White (talk) 12:37, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I know the Byzantine Emperor called himself "Basileus" and I figured the Emperor probably wouldn't share the same title with the King of Croatia :P, that's why I was pretty sure my weak translation was dead wrong. So if the title of the ruler is archon ("lord"), how would we translate "Lordship of Croatia", and additionally, "Lordship of the Croats" (if the latter is translated any differently)? -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 15:09, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, the territory under an archon in Byzantine times would be an archontia, but AFAIK that term was reserved for the Byzantine provinces under archons, and not applied in the sense of "lordship" to other nations. To the best of my knowledge, the only territorial term applied to Croatia was χώρα, i.e. "land". If you want to use an attested term, I'd say stay with plain Χρωβατία. Constantine  ✍  15:49, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way,I have read recently that "rex" may be translated to "Ρήγας".--Michael X the White (talk) 20:12, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * To be more precise, it is "Ρηξ" (i.e. a direct transliteration from Latin). The declension has produced forms like genitive "του Ρηγός", and hence modern Greek nominative "Ρήγας". I don't know how far back this process goes, and whether or not it was found in Byzantine vernacular. Anyhow, I have not been able to find the term Ρηξ in connection with the Croats. Constantine  ✍  20:21, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Well that's a real problem... "archon" is the title of the ruler, but "archontia" is only for Byzantine provinces. "Rex" is not used for the ruler and the equivalents of both "rex" and "regnum" are not used in connection with the Croats. Those are practically the dark ages so I guess it does not surprise when a state name is not completely addressed in sources. What would be the translation of "Regnum Croatiae" in Byzantine Greek? -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 20:34, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Regnum could be rendered in many ways, βασιλεία being the most direct one, but I very much doubt the Byzantines ever used such a term in regards to the Croats. As Catalographer also says below, to avoid neologisms, I recommend staying with plain Χρωβατία. Constantine  ✍  10:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

What do you need that translation for, do you want to stick it up in the lead sentence of the article? Don't. Such translations in historical languages are pretty useless. Fut.Perf. ☼ 17:26, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I disagree, its seems like valid historical information considering the Kingdom was part of the Byzantine Empire. Its useful historic info... -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 20:14, 26 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It seems that Byzantines in their primary sources just used the name Χορβατία Chorvatia without naming it a kingdom. So I suggest this name. Any other term would be a neo-historical neologism. Is there really a contemporary Medieval Latin source calling it Regnum or is it a neo-latin term of the Renaissance? Catalographer (talk) 10:38, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your help :) -- DIREKTOR  ( TALK ) 10:52, 27 September 2009 (UTC)


 * -:)What about also the Old Croatian name of the kingdom in Glagolitic alphabet?. That would be certainly a historical info.Catalographer (talk) 10:56, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Peer review-Evangelis Zappas
I've listed this article for peer review here Peer_review/Evangelis_Zappas/archive1, perhaps it can be further improved to GA status. Any input would be appreciated! Regards.Alexikoua (talk) 09:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

John Kourkouas A-class review
Hello to all! A WPMILHIST A-class review has been opened for John Kourkouas. Everyone is invited to participate with opinions, criticism and ideas for improvement. Cheers, Constantine  ✍  10:48, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Greek Love rewrite
There is a proposed overhaul draft at the talkpage; could folks have a look and comment, etc. Any extra eyes would be appreciated. -- <u style="font-size:14px; font-family: cursive;color:#8000FF">Banj e <u style="font-size:14px;font-family: Zapfino, sans-serif;color:deeppink">b oi   01:03, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Assessing WP Greece articles
Hi! Just wondering who and with what criteria assesses the importance of articles within the WP Greece scope. Can anyone do it or should there be some kind of discussion before the final assessment? Pel thal (talk) 20:41, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I must admit that I am baffled by the assessment of the importance of WP:GREECE articles. For example, Batrachomyomachia is listed as Top-importance, when it really shouldn't be.  As is Armen Kouptsios, a relatively minor figure from the Macedonian struggle.  At the same time, articles for figures such as Manolis Andronikos and Apollonius of Perga are listed as low importance.  This really doesn't make sense.  It seems to me that the project in its current state is badly neglected and a comprehensive reassessment needs to be done.  I am willing to help, but cannot do it all by myself.  But before anything can be done, Pel thal's question needs to be addressed.  --Athenean (talk) 20:49, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, the importance guidelines are to be found WP:GRA, and they seem pretty comprehensive & typical of the guidelines used in other projects as well. The problem is that many new or occasional editors write an article on an obscure subject and then assess it as top-importance, not heeding the guidelines. The above cases are certainly anomalous, just as the tagging of Greek-derived medicinal terms for instance was anomalous. For my part, I simply change them when I come across such cases. Constantine  ✍  23:03, 12 November 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, that makes a lot of sense. I will adopt the same approach.  --Athenean (talk) 04:22, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Roads
Hi I started stubs on national roads but I don't speak Greek. Can somebody expand? Thanks.Starzynka (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Happy to help, where do I find the stubs?kritikos99 (talk) 15:04, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup work on Greek Museum stubs
There is WP Museums work going on on collecting information, determining notability and developing needed articles here: User:Hoverfish/Sandbox. The aim is to reach a decision for AfD on undeveloped stubs whose topic is not notable or important enough to need an article, while at the same time developing enough the important and notable ones. One of your cleanup lists is also being used. You can help. Hoverfish Talk 12:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Surnames
Hi! I'm trying to improve the Byzantine section of List of Roman and Byzantine Empresses and I need some help with their surnames since I don't speak Greek. I didn't any solid answer on the Language desk. What are the plural forms of Zaoutzes, Makrembolites, Pegonites, and double surnames like Doukaina Vatatzaina and Megale Komnene? Also what is Gabaloi and Martiniakoi in female form.--Queen Elizabeth II&#39;s Little Spy (talk) 01:47, 29 November 2009 (UTC)


 * I understand you want the transliterations of the plural of the Greek forms, yes? Then Zaoutzes would be Zaoutzedes (Ζαούτζηδες), Makrembolites would remain the same (Μακρεμβολίτες), the same for the Pegonites (Πηγωνίτες). Doukaina Vatatzaina would be Doukaines Vatatzaines (Δούκαινες Βατάτζαινες) and Megale Komnene would become Megales Komnenes or, in more common usage, Megalokomnenes (Μεγαλοκομνηνές). For the last two, Byzantine female forms deviate somewhat from what is usual in modern Greek, but I'd guess it would be Gabalina (Γαβαλίνα) and Martiniake (Μαρτινιακή). Cheers, Constantine  ✍  05:34, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Nikos Economopoulos
I'm very impressed by the little I've seen of the work of the Magnum photographer Nikos Economopoulos and I therefore started an article on him. However, I'm crippled by my complete ignorance of Greek. Help from anyone interested would be appreciated. -- Hoary (talk) 03:34, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I'd like to help you, but is there something in particular you need help with, like reading a source? Let me know.  --Athenean (talk) 03:36, 1 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the offer. Well, I've already (mis)inserted Greek script into the article, and could well have made the crassest mistakes in that; you might take a look. &para; As I searched in WorldCat I found one book that I didn't list because I thought it might be by/about an unrelated person with the same name; you might look there. &para; As for translations, I can of course copy and paste his name into Google, and I could make wild guesses as to which of the hits might be more informative and/or authoritative, but this would be a waste of your time. &para; Do we have any entirely disinterested source for the claim that in 2001 he won "Ipektsi Award for peace and friendship between Greek and Turkish people"? (It's not that I'm accusing Magnum of dishonesty; but, highly respected though Magnum is, a major part of its job is to promote its members.) &para; One little oddity I've already noticed, though haven't yet got around to noting in the article or talk page, is that at least one fairly authoritative English-language source says that he studied law at university in Parma (with no mention of university studies anywhere else), while at least one other says that he studied law at university in Athens (also with no mention of university studies anywhere else). I sense all sorts of possibilities, but again they'd be more guesswork. Can you find an authoritative-looking bio that adds to the evidence one way or another, or (and far better) explains the discrepancy? &para; I now must rush off to attend to the demands of the real world, but within 24 hours I hope to have added to the article a small amount of material culled from a couple of books. &para; Let's continue the discussion on the article's talk page. -- Hoary (talk) 05:00, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Links in Google Earth
Recently I noticed a couple of links in Google Earth (to places in Greece), that are a very long way from the correct positions, like 90-100 km off! I cannot see how these links are created, nor how they can be corrected. Can someone help?kritikos99 (talk) 15:01, 17 November 2009 (UTC)


 * This is an example of the template you have to include or correct: . If you are using Google Earth, zoom in to where you can see the building, place the hand-cursor on it and look at the bottom of the page, marking degrees, minutes and seconds North or South and then degrees, minutes and seconds East or West. Substitute the proper numbers in the above template and place it at the top or just before the categories. In any case the display will be at the article's title bar. More information here: Obtaining geographic coordinates and WikiProject Geographical coordinates. Hoverfish Talk 12:24, 20 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks Hoverfish, but I don't think I described the problem clearly enough. I can see now how to create coordinates in an article, but to take an example, the article on "Kitries", a small village in Greece, contains the correct coordinates.  However, the icon in Google Earth that brings up the article from Wikipedia when clicked is misplaced more than 100 km to the North. What I would like to know is how to correct the placement of that icon in Google Earth? kritikos99 (talk) 16:40, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Info on recent history?
For the second year in a row, the news media is informing (bombarding) us that Athens Is Burning, and seemingly this is due to the only two classes of people in Greece (Police and Anarchist/Students) hating each other unconditionally.

I have a feeling there might be more to it than this, but I can't read Greek, and I haven't found any reference at all to either Police or Anarchists in any likely Greek-related article on WP.

Is there an article that covers some of the basics of what the heck is going on, and why these groups seem to believe it is their divine right to burn the country to the ground?

Thanks! Loren.wilton (talk) 13:11, 7 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think there is an article to that effect, as it would probably be deleted as OR or Synthesis.... This isn't supposed to be a forum, but, in short, its a combination of several factors: a profound disappointment with the country's political system, anger at the levels of corruption (particularly blatant under the previous government, which was elected with the promise to "clean up"), unemployment and lack of prospects for young people (wages are very low in both relative and absolute terms in comparison with other EU states & almost everyone who can goes abroad at some point or another), coupled with the traditional and very widespread contempt for the police (dating at least to the junta) and the equally-traditional right (as some groups perceive it) of protest and venting steam at the state (which in Greece has never had the best relations with its citizens) through vandalism. In other words, frustration that the change, cleaning-up of the state, and the better days we're being promised during the past two decades (of course, after going through "temporary" rigorous emergency economy programs which somehow never seem to end) have never come (except for the select few who have relatives in the ruling party of the day)... It doesn't mean that blind violence is to be condoned, and the so-called "known unknowns" who seem to be behind the worst of it are certainly almost professional "anarchists", but the fact is, if no other outlet for this frustration is present, these things will happen. Constantine  ✍  13:45, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Question about Takis Michalos
What is the correct way to transliterate Μιχαλος; is it Michalos or Mihkalos? Geschichte (talk) 15:25, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The correct way would be Michalos. Cheers! Pel thal (talk) 21:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Calendar
The calendar observed in Greece is interesting from the point of view of converting dates between the Julian and Gregorian calendar, because Greece seems to be the last country to switch between the Julian and Gregorian calendar. Or did they? The Explanatory Supplement to the Ephemeris (1961, p. 416) prepared by the US and UK nautical almanac offices, has this line in the list of conversion dates:

"Greece See (Milankovitch (8); a slightly modified form of the Gregorian calendar was introduced 1924 March 10/23."

So I would like to know if Greece has a law saying what calendar is in effect, or if they officially recognize the Greek Orthodox Church's calendar, or if the law is silent on the matter (if the latter, they would be like the United States).

An English translation of the Milankovitch reference is available at the SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System. A Wikipedia article about the "slightly modified form of the Gregorian calendar" is available at Revised Julian calendar. Jc3s5h (talk) 17:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC) Jc3s5h (talk) 17:10, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Request for help at the language reference desk ...
... from any native or other speaker: Reference_desk/Language. Many thanks in advance. ---Sluzzelin talk  00:09, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The noun is όσφρηση and the word described as "smelling something likely to happen" is μυρίζομαι (pronounced: mi-rii-zo-me, I don't know how to use phonetics...). Hope I was to some help! Pel thal (talk) 13:13, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Move proposal for Souliotes
A proposal to move Souliotes to "Suliotes" is being discussed here. Athenean (talk) 07:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Mastichochoria and Mastic (plant resin)
i Just wanted to say I'm working now on those values and if it should be part of the "Portal of Greece" I'd love if someone could come and help us. burekas (talk) 14:33, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced living people articles bot
Okip  00:53, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Greek War of Independence
I've noticed that the article is getting close to GA level at the least but there are a few citations missing in areas. Would anyone be able to cite the last paragraph in Central Greece, the last three paragraphs of War at sea, the first and third paragraphs of the Greek infighting, the first paragraph of Initial hostility and the last two paragraphs of the Aftermath section. It would also be appreciated if some one could expland the 1822-1824 section. Thanks. Kyriakos (talk) 11:29, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Dimitrios Gounaris
The article on Dimitrios Gounaris claims he made promises to remove Greece from Asia Minor in the election of 1920. However, Michael L. Smith in Ionian Vision states there was no formal platform by the opposition against the war (see Ionian Vision, page 154) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.87.3.33 (talk) 11:36, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

2010 European sovereign debt crisis
A pressing current issue, and an article that is linked from the main page. My personal view is that the article is a mess, though any efforts I have made to change it have been reverted by a user who believes that the entire issue is a media conspiracy. I'm far from an expert in this matter, and more input is sorely needed. - SimonP (talk) 16:22, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Dogtooth (film)
Hello! I'm looking for anyone who might be able to point me in the direction of getting more details around the making of the film Dogtooth. Esp. any links that detail production, local reception, any noteworthy coverage in Greece, etc. If you have anything that could be useful to expand this article, please drop a note on my talkpage or on the the talkpage of the article. Thanks in advance.  Lugnuts  (talk) 10:07, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons
The WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons (UBLPs) aims to reduce the number of unreferenced biographical articles to under 30,000 by June 1, primarily by enabling WikiProjects to easily identify UBLP articles in their project's scope. There were over 52,000 unreferenced BLPs in January 2010 and this has been reduced to 32,665 as of May 16. A bot is now running daily to compile a list of all articles that are in both Category:All unreferenced BLPs and have been tagged by a WikiProject. Note that the bot does NOT place unreferenced tags or assign articles to projects - this has been done by others previously - it just compiles a list.

Your Project's list can be found at WikiProject Greece/Unreferenced BLPs. As of May 17 you have approximately 95 articles to be referenced. The list of all other WikiProject UBLPs can be found at WikiProject Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons/WikiProjects.

Your assistance in reviewing and referencing these articles is greatly appreciated. If you have any questions, please don't hestitate to ask either at WT:URBLP or at my talk page. Thanks, The-Pope (talk) 17:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC)


 * ✅ Kostas Zouraris. Apparently large portion of the text was deleted by IP user at sometime. Shadow mor ph ^"^ 11:35, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Souliotes
There is a discussion going on in that article's talkpage concerning some extreme POV edits  rammed through by User:Balkanian`s word without any discussion whatsoever. The POV nature of the edits is highly problematic and needs to be addressed. Athenean (talk) 07:53, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Massacre of Hormova
This article has been listed for deletion here. Alexikoua (talk) 20:26, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Help needed
I have created the Battle of Doiran (1913) article. But I need some help because I am not fammiliar with the basics here. Thank youCrazyMartini (talk) 20:34, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Hallo, I would like to ask you please not to remove external links to the My Favourite Planet website.

This website is NOT a commercial website and it makes no profit.

(Even if it were, would it not be better to examine the nature and quality of information on externally linked websites before deleting links or references?)

My Favourite Planet is a new project intended to provide FREE useful information to travellers, students, researchers and anybody interested in the world around us. The idea is not to provide just "objective" encyclopaedic articles like a wiki since it welcomes opinions and more subjective content.

As a journalist and photographer I have been working and travelling around the Mediterranean (particularly Greece and Turkey) for over 30 years, have written many articles, and

contributed to books. I have even provided minor corrections and edits for some wiki articles.

I like the Kastelorizo article (good work!), and I love the island itself.

Currently I am completing research into Megisti's history, and am particularly interested in its ancient history and links to Lycian culture, although there is preciuos little documentary

material to hand.

Greetings from David John in Berlin —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidjohnberlin (talk • contribs) 02:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

CFD nomination
You may be interested in voicing your opinion at current CFD nomination, as it also concerns and other Greek categories. - Darwinek (talk) 11:33, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

1714 revolt of Chameria
This article has been listed for deletion: here.Alexikoua (talk) 07:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that there is a link provided for Italian, Balkan and Levant in the first sentence, but NOT Turkish/Turkey. Why is this? Turkish cuisine plays an important part here. I also noticed in many similar areas throughout this article that links for Turkey/Turkish were not provided. Is there a concern that someone will click on/go to Turkish and not come back? :-) 061610  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.47.56 (talk) 03:43, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

WPSQ and WPGR tags
I noticed that old Illyrian settlements such as Byllis the WPGR tag has been added (in addition to the WP ancient Greece and Rome, which btw is also redundant, since only WP:Illyria would be appropriate). User:Athenean made this comment in my talkpage and I would like to know if such comment is shared by other members of WP Greece. It seems like if there have been, or there are Greeks in a city, the WPGR should be included. By the same token and logic, we should start entering the WPSQ tag in many Greek cities, where currently there are Albanian citizens. I am wondering if that is the will of the majority of the Greek contributors to this wikiproject. --<font style = "color:white;background:navy;">SulmuesLet's talk 17:09, 7 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Per the definition of this project's scope, Greek history in its entirety, and not just modern Greece, is within scope. As such, a city with significant historical Greek population, whether in modern-day Greece, Albania, Italy, Romania, Syria or Afghanistan, can and should be tagged. BTW, I have to agree with Fut, this tag dispute business is silly and petty in the extreme. Tags are intended to facilitate project management, not for marking out our turf and excluding everyone else from it... To any and all involved: if in doubt, leave it be. We have enough Greco-Albanian mess without another unnecessary dispute. Constantine  ✍  23:19, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
 * PS, one could also simply add the "|topic=history" parameter to the WPGR tag, which should make even more clear that the tag is there for historical reasons and does not imply any modern claim (which, I repeat, is not what WikiProject tags are for in the first place)...Constantine  ✍  23:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems to me that Sulmues thinks that adding a wikiproject tag to an article gives privileges and ownership rights over the article to members of that wikiproject, which explains why he is so eager to remove WP:GR and add WP:SQ everywhere. These diffs are very indicative  .  According to this view, wikiprojects are tight-knit "teams" that "protect" articles, i.e. wikiproject members have special privileges over non-members in an article that is tagged as part of that particular wikiproject.  It is evident this individual still has no idea what a wikiproject is and thinks in terms of national "teams", territory, confrontation, and WP:BATTLE.  I for one cannot bring myself to take such views seriously, nor can I be bothered to explain them to him.  I tried adding WP:GR to a few articles that fall within the scope of WP:GR, was furiously reverted by Sulmues, and gave up in disgust.  It's just not worth it.  However, this is a perfect example of how Sulmues still has no understanding of how things work around here, which in turn leads him to behave in a disruptive manner.  Athenean (talk)


 * Athenean your above text is unrelated to what I am saying and also misleading. Your comments about me stirring up disputes and national teams are also out of place. I added the WPSQ to Saint Cosmas of Aetolia because he preached mainly in Albania. As far as I am concerned Maximus the Greek is tagged WP Russia, and rightly so: he preached in Russia. I also protect the Saint Cosmas of Aetolia through the Albania tag, and I have entered references there that, although a hellenizer, he is highly regarded by Orthodox Albanians for his religious message. For my comment on CrazyMartini that you brought up, I really stand by it, because so far all he does is voting anti-Albanian in AfD articles, and I really think that Greece WP has far better contributors than him: I have had the honor of seeing Constantine's, Alexikoua's and up to a certain degree Megistias' contributions: these three people have written articles one after the other. So I believe that CrazyMartini is a liability in your WP, not an asset, because of his history of disruption: he will have the chance to redeem himself, but so far I'm not convinced. In the Albanian WikiProject as well, there are certain contributors that I would report myself.


 * What I am bothered with is your double standard: You want WPGR in Vlore and Sarande, but when I entered Molossians, Chaonians, and Thesprotians under WPSQ, you reported me to WP:AE Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive59. Now if you start entering Vlore within WPGR (and also Sarande or Lezhe for that matter), you'll see that Athens should be under WPSQ for the same reasons. As far as I am concerned Arvanites are Albanians and until Greece became the modern country that it is today, mostly Arvanites inhabited it (early 19th century - see Plaka). And if Athens is marked WPSQ, I foresee many other Greek cities being marked such, especially Ionian islands where Arvanites lived, let alone Chameria. That is why I propose that we mark WP Antique Greece only the old settlements, and have no WPGR in modern settlements: If we don't, you'll have to accept that many Greek cities be marked WPSQ. Now if you really want to protect these cities in Albania where you think that there are Greeks, why don't you add them to the publicwatchlist of Greece without tagging them WPGR? This is what we do in the Albanian Wikiproject. In fact some contributors that go into the Vlore talk page and sees WPGR will be a little upset, and I expect some Greeks also to be upset if they see Athens tagged WPSQ.


 * Please think about my proposal and let me know. I will notify also WPSQ about this ongoing discussion in the talkpage so that we try to find a common ground. I repeat that Greek-Albanian disputes make both sides look bad in the English Wikipedia. --<font style = "color:white;background:navy;">SulmuesLet's talk 13:25, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

'especially Ionian islands where Arvanites lived'??? 'you'll see that Athens should be under WPSQ for the same reasons. As far as I am concerned Arvanites are Albanians and until Greece became the modern country that it is today, mostly Arvanites inhabited it (early 19th century - see Plaka)' as far as historians as opposed to yourself are concerned the arvanites were a minority in athens (as opposed to attica...) the majority were greekspeakers. if you try to use examples at least get them right..'You want WPGR in Vlore and Sarande, but when I entered Molossians, Chaonians, and Thesprotians under WPSQ' this is another bad example i think (i havent read the rules)..the thesprotians were a northwest greek tribe and lived in what is now modern greek territory on the other hand vlore was a greek foundation in what is now albanian territory.

im personally in favor of using as many tags as possible AS LONG AS they ARENT used as gang tags ('this turf is or was ours')..if participants in a project are reasonably interested in a subject (no incas in project greece..) why not..?87.202.53.82 (talk) 13:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think this tag business really REALLY needs to stop. Sulmues, just let it rest.  There is nothing to be gained by continuing it, just leave it at the status quo.  And no, I did not report you trying to add WP:SQ tags, I reported you for being incivil and having a battleground mentality, which your above posts shows you have.  If you continue with this tag business you will cross into WP:DIS territory.  Athenean (talk) 17:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Noni Ιoannidou
The article above has been nominated for deletion at Articles for deletion/Noni Ιoannidou as there are no references asserting or supporting notability. It has been suggested that there may be material in the Greek media which could help find sourcing. Hence my post here. –– Jezhotwells (talk) 16:36, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Vikos-Aoos National Park

 * A A-Class review is currently on for the article's talk page.Alexikoua (talk) 23:51, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

removing of names in Turkish in Greek cities of Thrace where the Turkish and Pomak minority..
The User:Avionics1980 removes Turkish and Bulgarian names in articles about cities in Thrace were exists the Turkish and Pomak minory: Xanthi, Thermes , Echinos and Komotini. I left a message/note about that also to User_talk:Avionics1980.

A similar discussion took place in el.wikipedia but the use of the Turkish name in the article of Komotini: (it is in Greek).

Since these cities live Greeks, Turks and in some of them Pomaks.. (in Komotini aprox. half of the population is Turkish speaking, in Echinos the majority is Turkish-Pomak speaking etc etc).. I think the article can have the official name.. but also the translation in Turkish or (may-be) Bulgarian should be present. For example the Turks (Muslim minority) living in Komotini speak Turkish and use the name "Gümülcine".. The Greeks are using the name "Komotini".. I don't find problematic in the article both names to be presented.. and I consider this information encyclopedic..

Ggia (talk) 12:24, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi there. The reason I am removing this information which, by the way, is at the lead of the article is quite simple (and honestly I cannot understand why you cannot understand it): In New York for instance, or in London, probably live many hundred of minorities like Italian, Pakistanis, Indians etc. All these groups obviously call New York or London differently. Why dont we add 10 different names in the lead? Also I would have to disagree with you in the following: The cities you mention, like Komotini or Xanthi all have Greek citizens. If they have Muslim minorities or Turkish or Albanian or Hawaian speaking people is irrelevant. The lead must clearly contain the official name of the city. If for historical or Religious or other reasons a different name was or is used, this can be added in a relevant section within the article. I think that this is a decent way to approach the issue.

Avionics1980 (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

In Komotini and Xanthi half of the population are speaking Turkish language and use the Turkish name of the city which is different that the Greek official. In the other cites that you removed the Turkish name (Echinos and Thermes) only a few people there live and have Greek language as main language.

The example of New York is not a good example. The people that are living in the region of Thrace and speak Turkish and pomak language are there since centuries (since the ottoman empire).. And a lot of their villages changed name the last decades. It is encyclopedic to include the old name.. and the name that it is already used by them. In Athens the last 10 years we have immigrants from Pakistan.. There is Pakistan community in Athens.. but it is not a minority.. Nobody ask to add the Pakistan translation of Athens in the article of Athens.. and it has no sense.. because probably Athens in Pakistan language is something similar with Athens.. not something complete different..

Look also the discussion in Greek wikipedia that I sent you a link in your page..

Also removing information because you don't like it.. it can be considered as a vandalism.. unless if you object that this information is not correct.. there is no reference etc etc..

Ggia (talk) 18:27, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * look also discussion about Komotini in Talk:Komotini about the turkish name.. (Gümülcine) Ggia (talk) 19:07, 12 August 2010 (UTC)


 * :: There are several places around the world with considerable minorities living in those areas and speaking another language other than the official one and yet the areas name is not written in this language at least in the lead. By putting a foreign name in the LEAD is mis-leading. One's mind can (wrongly) conclude that for instance there is a significant ethnic-minority or he may wonder why on earth there are 2-3 different foreign names or even go as far as challenge sovereignty. Now I would recommend that you dont be so "negative" and saying things like " Also removing information because you don't like it.. it can be considered as a vandalism..". Its at least bad to do this, trying to implicate me in vandalism. Let me ask you, and please respond, what exactly is your problem if you include that very nice information in the text of the article? You perfectly know that in almost all of the articles you mention, this information (i.e. Turkish or Bulgarian or whatever names) is already there, on the text. Why dont you include it there, but instead insist on adding it in the LEAD?

Avionics1980 (talk) 20:02, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The arguments provided by User Avionics are spurious. As can be clearly seen from the Wikipedia naming guidelines, alternate names used by former inhabitants of an area are permitted: WP:NCGN. Of course, larger articles have name sections, but this isn't possible in small articles, so putting the name in the lead is certainly permitted in this case. Kostja (talk) 10:20, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * @Kostja: I've asked you to add a source about the villages you place alternative names. Most of the readers can't know the background of every single village...Alexikoua (talk) 11:07, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

@Alexikoua thanks for the comment.. I didn't know that this is a guide-rule in the WP:NCGN. I tried to argue using "common sense". Ggia (talk) 13:28, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

@{Kostja, Alexikoua} |link @pandektis.ekt.gr is a good source (official) (but in Greek) to find when the names of the villages has changed and what was the old name. Ggia (talk) 13:34, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
 * @Alexikoua: Is Lyubomir Miletich (more specifically here an acceptable source, according to you? Kostja (talk) 19:13, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

user Avionics1980 regrets that in this discussion and is running and edit-war removing turkish names in the cities of Thrace. What action we should do now? i.e. informing an administration about this vandalism? Ggia (talk) 15:51, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Your accussations are totally unacceptable. You should be very careful when you say that I "regrets that in this duscussion and that is running an edit war". I have expressed my opinion previously as you did, and I am doing exactly what YOU do. You express your opinion here and then you go back at the articles and revert. Is there something different that I do? Avionics1980 (talk) 10:00, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

My accusations are totally unacceptable? In what sense? Shall I receive this as a personal attack? Ggia (talk) 10:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Take a look in the article of Cluj-Napoca, in the city there is a big Hungarian minority (the city is in Romania).. Both names are present there.. even names of the city in more languages.. Also in the Romanian edition of the article (it is also featured) it is the same ro:Cluj-Napoca. What you will do now? You will go and remove the hungarian, etc names of the city there? Did you read the WP:NCGN? Ggia (talk) 11:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Based on the above, I think it is you that you havent read the WP:NCGN. For all those places you keep adding the TURKISH or BULGARIAN names can you PROVE there is a significant TURKISH or BULGARIAN minority NOWADAYS? Avionics1980 (talk) 16:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Do you believe that i.e. in Komotini there are no people speaking Turkish? There are even newpapers published in Turkish i.e. Γκιουντέμ (Gündem), Μπιρλίκ (Birlik), Τζουμχουριέτ (Cumhuriyet) etc etc. Did you read the talk page of Komotini? There is a discussion of the name and a lot of users tried to stop your edit-war.. ie. Kafka Liz, Kostja and me. Because I work in Komotini half of the people that I have in my work speak turkish language.. some of them (old women speak mostly turkish and a little greek). What kind of proof you you want?

Seriously.. if you like the official name of the city.. why you don't go also to the article of Cluj-Napoca and remove all the names in Hungarian, Jewish etc.. There are many articles written in this why.. Why don't you go to Imbros article and move the article to the Turkish official name.. and delete the Greek name?

Answer to us these questions to understand why you like this edit-war and you don't apply your ideas to more articles.

About the Bulgarian names I don't know a lot.. about the bulgarian history of the region.. for example in bulgarian wikipedia there is an article Дерекьой_(Гюмюрджинско) (it the article about Πάνδροσσος, a greek village 6 kms north of Komotini -- greek speaking village) and looking to it (using google translate) I found that there is some bulgarian history about this village. If a city/village has an old bulgarian name.. I don't find problematic to be included in the article of the village..

Ggia (talk) 16:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Requested edit help
Can someone who is reasonably fluent in Greek take a look at this edit request? I'm hesitant to update an article based on its Google translation. Thanks, Dabomb87 (talk) 18:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Order of polytonic characters
When you select "Greek" from the drop-down in the insert box below the edit box, the characters are presented in the following ordering:
 * Ά ά Έ έ Ή ή Ί ί Ό ό Ύ ύ Ώ ώ
 * Α α Β β Γ γ Δ δ
 * Ε ε Ζ ζ Η η Θ θ
 * Ι ι Κ κ Λ λ Μ μ
 * Ν ν Ξ ξ Ο ο Π π
 * Ρ ρ Σ σ ς Τ τ Υ υ
 * Φ φ Χ χ Ψ ψ Ω ω
 * ᾼ ᾳ ᾴ Ὰ ὰ ᾲ ᾶ ᾷ Ἀ ἀ ᾈ ᾀ Ἁ ἁ ᾉ ᾁ Ἄ ἄ ᾌ ᾄ Ἂ ἂ ᾊ ᾂ Ἆ ἆ ᾎ ᾆ Ἅ ἅ ᾍ ᾅ Ἃ ἃ ᾋ ᾃ Ἇ ἇ ᾏ ᾇ
 * Ὲ ὲ Ἐ ἐ Ἑ ἑ Ἔ ἔ Ἒ ἒ Ἕ ἕ Ἓ ἓ
 * ῌ ῃ ῄ Ὴ ὴ ῂ ῆ ῇ Ἠ ἠ ᾘ ᾐ Ἡ ἡ ᾙ ᾑ Ἤ ἤ ᾜ ᾔ Ἢ ἢ ᾚ ᾒ Ἦ ἦ ᾞ ᾖ Ἥ ἥ ᾝ ᾕ Ἣ ἣ ᾛ ᾓ Ἧ ἧ ᾟ ᾗ
 * Ὶ ὶ ῖ Ἰ ἰ Ἱ ἱ Ἴ ἴ Ἲ ἲ Ἶ ἶ Ἵ ἵ Ἳ ἳ Ἷ ἷ
 * Ὸ ὸ Ὀ ὀ Ὁ ὁ Ὄ ὄ Ὂ ὂ Ὅ ὅ Ὃ ὃ
 * ῤ Ῥ ῥ
 * Ὺ ὺ ῦ ὐ Ὑ ὑ ὔ ὒ ὖ Ὕ ὕ Ὓ ὓ Ὗ ὗ
 * ῼ ῳ ῴ Ὼ ὼ ῲ ῶ ῷ Ὠ ὠ ᾨ ᾠ Ὡ ὡ ᾩ ᾡ Ὤ ὤ ᾬ ᾤ Ὢ ὢ ᾪ ᾢ Ὦ ὦ ᾮ ᾦ Ὥ ὥ ᾭ ᾥ Ὣ ὣ ᾫ ᾣ Ὧ ὧ ᾯ ᾧ

I have a hard time understanding the logic behind this and finding the character I'm looking for. I propose to use a different ordering:
 * Ά ά Έ έ Ή ή Ί ί Ό ό Ύ ύ Ώ ώ
 * Α α Β β Γ γ Δ δ
 * Ε ε Ζ ζ Η η Θ θ
 * Ι ι Κ κ Λ λ Μ μ
 * Ν ν Ξ ξ Ο ο Π π
 * Ρ ρ Σ σ ς Τ τ Υ υ
 * Φ φ Χ χ Ψ ψ Ω ω
 * Ὰ ὰ ᾶ Ἀ ἀ Ἁ ἁ Ἄ ἄ Ἂ ἂ Ἆ ἆ Ἅ ἅ Ἃ ἃ Ἇ ἇ
 * ᾼ ᾳ ᾴ ᾲ ᾷ ᾈ ᾀ ᾉ ᾁ ᾌ ᾄ ᾊ ᾂ ᾎ ᾆ ᾍ ᾅ ᾋ ᾃ ᾏ ᾇ
 * Ὲ ὲ Ἐ ἐ Ἑ ἑ Ἔ ἔ Ἒ ἒ Ἕ ἕ Ἓ ἓ
 * Ὴ ὴ ῆ Ἠ ἠ Ἡ ἡ Ἤ ἤ Ἢ ἢ Ἦ ἦ Ἥ ἥ Ἣ ἣ Ἧ ἧ
 * ῌ ῃ ῄ ῂ ῇ ᾘ ᾐ ᾙ ᾑ ᾜ ᾔ ᾚ ᾒ ᾞ ᾖ ᾝ ᾕ ᾛ ᾓ ᾟ ᾗ
 * Ὶ ὶ ῖ Ἰ ἰ Ἱ ἱ Ἴ ἴ Ἲ ἲ Ἶ ἶ Ἵ ἵ Ἳ ἳ Ἷ ἷ
 * Ὸ ὸ Ὀ ὀ Ὁ ὁ Ὄ ὄ Ὂ ὂ Ὅ ὅ Ὃ ὃ
 * ῤ Ῥ ῥ
 * Ὺ ὺ ῦ ὐ Ὑ ὑ ὔ ὒ ὖ Ὕ ὕ Ὓ ὓ Ὗ ὗ
 * Ὼ ὼ ῶ Ὠ ὠ Ὡ ὡ Ὤ ὤ Ὢ ὢ Ὦ ὦ Ὥ ὥ Ὣ ὣ Ὧ ὧ
 * ῼ ῳ ῴ ῲ ῷ ᾨ ᾠ ᾩ ᾡ ᾬ ᾤ ᾪ ᾢ ᾮ ᾦ ᾭ ᾥ ᾫ ᾣ ᾯ ᾧ

The difference is that for a given letter all iota-subscripted forms are together and follow the unsubscripted forms. Comments? --Lambiam 18:50, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I am afraid this is the wrong place for it, WikiProject Greece has nothing to do with the wiki tools. I don't know who is actually responsible, probably an enquiry at WP:HELPDESK or WP:PUMP might be a good idea. For the proposal itself, I don't really have a problem with the present form, but separating the iota subscript does indeed make sense. Constantine  ✍  21:58, 18 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The reason I put it here is that this was the most likely place I could think of where users of these inserts would see it; there is little point in this being discussed by users who can't distinguish an alpha from a beta, and after all this is the WikiProject for Ancient Greek and Greek diacritics. I also put up a note referring here at Help talk:Special characters. --Lambiam 04:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I've never been able to find characters in the current system. The lists of accented characters for each letter simply look like a jumble. Any shortening of the sub-lists would make it easier to find letters. I'd welcome categorizing by iota subscript, though it doesn't shorten sub-lists as much as categorizing by breathing, as in the Wiktionary system. — Eru·tuon 18:01, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

RfC: Aorist
I see someone has just marked Aorist as related to this project. Members might be interested in an ongoing RfC on whether the article should remain essentially as-is, or should be rewritten to have less focus on traditional Greek terminology. Input would be greatly appreciated at Talk:Aorist. -- Radagast 3 (talk) 21:57, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Overhaul of modern Greek history
Hello to all! Modern Greek history is, alas, a bit neglected. Although we have some great or satisfactory articles on individual topics, overview coverage is a bit lacking. Other countries, like France, have a detailed overview by periods. We presently have, as exemplified by the History of Greece template, the following periods: War of Independence - Kingdom of Greece - Second Hellenic Republic - 4th of August Regime - Axis occupation - Civil War - Military Junta - Third Hellenic Republic. The obvious problem is the Kingdom of Greece, which covers in essence three distinct periods: Otto's reign, the first Glücksburg period (1863-1924) and the second Glücksburg period (1935-1967/74), let alone a number of separate sub-periods of widely differing nature. What I am suggesting is to create separate articles covering broad historical periods: a) Otto's Greece, as his rule coincides with the immediate post-Revolution generation, b) the period 1863-1909, when the Goudi coup and the arrival of Venizelos drastically changed the political scene, c) the period dominated by Venizelos and the struggle between his supporters and the anti-Venizelists until 1936 (perhaps this ought to be split between 1909-1924 and the 2nd Republic, 1924-1935), d) the period of troubles 1936-1949 which is characterized internally by the emergence of Communism as the state's No 1 enemy and by successive conflicts, e) post-war Greece from 1949 to 1967, f) the junta (already extant), and finally g) the Third Republic, for which a separate section, perhaps "History of contemporary Greece" ought to be created.

I am setting this proposal up for discussion here for all the members of the project to provide their input and criticism, both on the idea itself as well as for more specific details (the chronological demarkation and thematic nature of the individual periods, for instance). Given how few we've become, it doesn't mean that we have to start producing these articles right now, but it would be good to have an agreed structure for the future... Constantine  ✍  17:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Costas. Thank you for the kind invitation to participate here. My first question would be: Are we at liberty to create any category we want or are we limited to creating categories for periods which are recognised by academic sources only? Thank you. Dr.K. <sup style="position:relative">λogos<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">πraxis 18:29, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * It is certainly preferable to rely on academic sources. Aside from the (IMO) rather arbitrary chronology of the volumes of the History of the Hellenic Nation however, I don't really know of any accepted division. My proposal above derives from my understanding of the major landmarks and pivotal moments in modern Greek history, it is certainly not set in stone. If you or anyone else can point to specific sources, that would be great (also one of the reasons for the asking for input here). If sources are lacking, we are of course free to follow our own judgement. Constantine   ✍  18:47, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Additional questions: If a category is underpopulated shouldn't it be merged with a larger adjacent category? Should we consider the number of eligible articles before we create a category? Dr.K. <sup style="position:relative">λogos<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">πraxis 20:01, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ideally, the categories should correspond with some overview article, so I would wait to see which division will emerge from this discussion. As long as a category has a legitimate reason for existence (i.e. it does indeed cover a clearly defined and established historical period) and an expectation to be filled out in the future (e.g. Category:Second Hellenic Republic), I see no reason to delete or merge it. Constantine  ✍  20:25, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree in principle. I had older and "more established" periods (if any exist) in mind when I made the comment about merging. Dr.K. <sup style="position:relative">λogos<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">πraxis  20:36, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I concur with the proposal, although I think that once more articles are written (and properly sourced) the categories will rise naturally.A.Cython (talk) 02:56, 27 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Good thinking Constantine. There is a debate when modern Greek history begins. Some say with the fall of Constantinople to the Crusaders, some with the fall of Byzantium in 1453, some with the 1821 Independence War and the foundation of the modern Greek state. Of course there was never a 'Glücksburg period' but as you indicate, returns of the monarchy. I think the Asia Minor disaster is a huge event since it hits on the head the Megali Idea and completely turns over the 'Greek traditional habitat'. Also the Metaxas regime heralded a process of modernisation in terms of infrastructure and the transformation of Greece into a relevant fighting machine that defeated the Axis. Good luck :-) Politis (talk) 19:44, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Obviously "Glücksburg period" was used in a descriptive way, the articles will most likely be headed "History of Greece (1863-1909)" or the likes... For the Asia Minor Disaster, I agree, but it is to narrow in scope to provide for an "overview" article. After all, it is the culmination of a decade-long process, and its effects were felt long after 1923. What I'd like to know is if the broad periods suggested above are acceptable or not. The Metaxas Regime is more of a sub-period in this respect. In other words, the question I want answered is "if you had to divide modern Greek history (for conventional reasons, from 1821 on) into a few (say, 5-7) major periods, which would they be and why?" Constantine  ✍  20:00, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

I like Woodhouse's chapters because their content looks beyond Elladite Greek obsessions, however, I changed some of the wording:
 * The Struggle for Independence (1800-1832) - The Emergence of the Greek Kingdom (1833-1908) - From regional power to National Crisis (1908 - 1923) - The Republic and Dictatorship (1923-1940) - Resistance and Civil War (1941-1952) - The Inheritance of Constantine (1952-1967) - The Return of the Republic (1968-1976) - A seat in the European Union (1976-2010). Politis (talk) 21:53, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, generally I agree, although some specific dates are rather objectionable (1952 and particularly 1976), and the 75 years of the "Emergence of the Greek Kingdom" simply must be split up in two sections. He too identifies 1909-1923/4 as a distinct period, but includes Metaxas with the 2nd Republic. Generally the sections are the same, so I'd guess we are on a good path. For Metaxas, since the Axis occupation is arguably a greater turning point and catalyst than his assumption of power, I tend to agree to have him together with the 2nd Republic. Constantine  ✍  22:21, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Interesting, why do find 1952 objectionable? I would have probably used 1975 rather than 1976 since it marks the year Greece applied for the EEC (future EU). I suppose the 19th century can be divided from 1864. Politis (talk) 22:34, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I suppose that Woodhouse uses 1952 because it marks the ascendancy of the Right with Papagos' election, and the end of the "Centrist interlude". "Objectionable" might be a bit too harsh a term, but I would consider 1949 the better choice, because the former point is a bit obscure. Historical periods tend to be demarcated by dramatic, decisive (and widely known/easily recognizable) events. The end of the Civil War was such an event, while Papagos' election, although very important, was not. For the contemporary history, why not go straight to the beginning of the metapolitefsi in 1974? That was the seminal event, and candidacy in the EU (or rather the EEC, back then) flowed from it. Constantine  ✍  22:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
 * On the other hand, it just occurs to me, 1952 also saw the adoption of a new constitution, which does arguably mark the culmination and institutionalization of the post-war anti-Communist hysteria. Hmmm, I find I cannot reject the 1952 as easily now, it is arguably useful as a landmark... Constantine  ✍  23:00, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Good old Woodhouse, I should have read his book more closely :-) Politis (talk) 23:23, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

1974 and the metapolitefsi makes perfect sense, however, we could argue that democracy remained uncertain until 1975 when Greece chose to join the EEC, while the first 8 months of 1974 are related to the Junta, but I have no real preference. - The historian Svoronos places emphasis on the 'glossiko', the language debate between katharevousa and demotic because he views it, rightly in my opinion, as a main ideological battle field. In fact there were huge language riots. Perhaps a sub-chapter might be in order. Politis (talk) 08:52, 31 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree but for a start let's use 1974 and metapolitefsi as a category and then we can fine tune the subcats. As far as 1952 I leave it up to you. I am ok either way. Dr.K. <sup style="position:relative">λogos<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">πraxis 23:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Move proposal: Occupation of Albania
There is a move proposal Talk:Occupation_of_Albania_(1912–1913).Alexikoua (talk) 20:12, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Georgios Papandreou rename proposal
Members of the project are invited to share their views and vote on the best way to name (or disambiguate) the two "Georgios Papandreou" here. Constantine  ✍  20:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

edit-war about foreign names in the lead of Greek cities.
I noticed that some users do not like the foreign names of cities in the lead. Some of them like to delete all this information like this edit or  or  (edits by User:Avionics1980) and remove foreign names not only from the lead but from all the article (these are small articles). An old edit by User:Athenean where removes the Turkish name from the lead (but it is still in the body of the article).

If I understand from the WP:NCGN it is normal to include foreign names (old names of the city.. ie. names of cities (in Turkish) during ottoman empire, or in Italian venetian period etc etc). Also some cities that the names has been removed have a large turkish speaking minority (i.e. Sostis, Xanthi, Komotini). Is it a matter of taste to remove the names in lead and have separate section? Is it a matter of taste to delete this information from the article (I gave example above).

Reading articles like Istanbul, Imbros, Cluj-Napoca, Corfu I see that the foreign names are sometimes both in the lead and inside the article. Is it a matter of taste to go and remove this information from the lead? Since some of you (that contributes to cities of Greece), you are Greeks.. is it a matter of taste to remove only Turkish or Bulgarian names from cities.. even in some of them there is a Turkish language speaking minority? For example in articles like Corfu it is a matter of taste not to remove the lead and the Italian name of the island?

My POV is that it is normal in the lead to have multiple foreign names (old names of the cities in Turkish, Italian, Bulgarian etc etc). An indication like old name during ottoman empire, or old name during Bulgarian period, old name during Byzantium etc can be also nice idea. Because the first line of the article is the lead.. I find it useful to have this information there.

Looking forward for comments.

Ggia (talk) 22:46, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Another example.. article of Qeparo.. alternative name is also in the lead and in the name section. Where is the problem to have the same in Greek city articles? Ggia (talk) 08:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok just to let you know that I also wish to stop edit wars. So in fact I have now started creating new name sections and placing the foreign names there. I think this will be accepted by everyone. Nothing is deleted and there is a special section for the name just as for other articles. Avionics1980 (talk) 10:03, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

It is ok the name sections.. but a lot of articles have both names in the lead and in the name section. Are you going to delete the lead from Imbros, Qeparo, Istanbul ie? Is it a matter of taste where to delete the lead and leave only the name section? Ggia (talk) 10:28, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

And before removing the alternative names from the lead from a large amount of articles (and creating name section for instance i.e changes you did recently in Kos ).. is it more wise to discuss it here, before applying these changes to many articles? Are you planning to remove the lead only from Greek cities or do you have a plan for more cities in wikipedia.. ie. like Cluj-Napoca? If you plan to make massive changes you have to discuss it first. Are you planning to remove Turkish names in articles that there is not a Turkish speaking minority and keep the Turkish name only to article that there exist a Turkish speaking minority? What you will do about the Bulgarian alternative names? Ggia (talk) 10:38, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

According to WP:NCGN ''Alternatively, all alternative names can be moved to and explained in a "Names" or "Etymology" section immediately following the lead, or a special paragraph of the lead; we recommend that this be done if there are at least three alternate names, or there is something notable about the names themselves. '' In your recent edit you removed the turkish name of Komotini and moved in lower part of the article inside History part. What is your opinion about this edit? Do you think that this kind of edits should be applied to more articles? Ggia (talk) 10:50, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

This is not just a question about the 'foreign names' of Greek locations, but a wider issue of older names that held sway at different times in history. There are some location that demand that their internationally recognised conventional name is accompanied with an older name. But in the majority of cases the older name should have its place further down the article. Politis (talk) 19:56, 29 August 2010 (UTC)


 * @Politis ie. in Komotini which is bilingual town (greek and turkish language is used by its inhabitants) do you believe that the Turkish name should be in the history-name section part? Give us some examples no only for greek articles  that the name should be placed further down in the article. When you mean further down, you mean also to the article of Cluj-Napoca or Qeparo or Imbros? (what do you mean with the majority of cases?). Even if the foreign names should be placed further down.. it should be a kind of link as it is mentioned in WP:NCGN? Do you agree with WP:NCGN? Ggia (talk) 20:35, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

@Ggia. Cluj-Napoca seems a bit extreme. Komotini also has the Slavic Pomak language. I think places like Imbros and Alexandroupoli should have their other name in the opening. Likewise for Izmir and Istanbul, if only because the Turks do the same when communicating the culture of those cities in the English language (I think they also mention them in their Turkish language communications though this is a matter for Turkish Wikipedia). Some places are intimately associated with two names, such as Cervin/Matterhorn, Lake Geneva/Lake Leman, Bombay/Mumbai, Beijing/Peking, etc... For Corfu, it seems absurd to have the Italian name in the opening. For 'the majority of cases' I mean that most geographic names from around the world that find their way as Wikipedia articles, do not need their older/other name - if there was one, in the opening sentence, but it can be included in the name or historical section. I also think that all Diacritics should be eliminated from the titles of the articles since their are alien to the English language and, considering the number of them and their diverse origins, a mystery for the vast majority of readers as to their purpose. They are also alien from the entry of the Oxford English Dictionary. As for WP:NCGN, it's a long article and I am not fully familiar with it so I would rather not comment other than say how I appreciate its content and its intention. Politis (talk) 22:18, 30 August 2010 (UTC)


 * @Politis in Komotini there are not some many people speaking slavic language, since most of the slavic-pomak people are on the mountainous region of Rhodope. Since there are some pomaks living in Komotini.. I don't have any problem the slavic name of Komotini to be included in the city. In Komotini it used to be a large Jews minority till nazi eliminate them.. since historically Jews were living there., the jewish name should be included as well. Read WP:NCGN: Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit :this geographical place  Ggia (talk) 06:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

A-class review for John Kourkouas is open
Hello! The second A-class nomination of John Kourkouas is now open at WPMILHIST. All editors are invited to participate, and any input is welcome! Constantine  ✍  06:21, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

A-class review for Sviatoslav's invasion of Bulgaria is open
A WPMILHIST A-class nomination of Sviatoslav's invasion of Bulgaria is open. Any interested editors are invited to participate. Any input is welcome! Constantine  ✍  11:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

i would like to know who other here is a part greek and greek family names mine is Cosmas Your Family Names or other things Below
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.8.82.163 (talk) 15:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.8.82.163 (talk) 15:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.8.82.163 (talk) 15:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.8.82.163 (talk) 15:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
 * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.8.82.163 (talk) 15:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)