Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Guns N' Roses/Archive 1

Tasks for members
If anyone wants to help out with setting up of the project, feel free to contact me or reply here and I'll find a job for you – there are many missing gaps, here and there, that I can't seem to find the time to fill in. Kind regards, – sebi 07:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Absolutely, I'm here to help--let me know what I can do. So glad to see this project up and running! Best, DanielEng 03:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You could start by tracking down Guns N' Roses-related articles, tag them, and then add them to the list, or if you are any good with advanced template syntax you could redo the project template (WPGNR) to make it similar to the other WikiProject templates, or search everywhere online for freely-licensed images of the current lineup of the band performing. I'm sure there are others, but I am not exactly too sure what they are yet, since I'm trying to get this project going slowly and steadily, and not start off really huge, and avoid meeting this project's end due to inactivity... – sebi 04:30, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

G N' R pinball machine
Should the pinball machine be tagged as been part of the project? Bit tenuous but... Cavie78 18:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, tag it... low priority though. Tom H 20:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just tagged and assessed it. Tom H 21:24, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Assessment all done
I have assessed every article (with the exception of project and category pages) currently within the scope of the project... Hope it's all OK and I've tagged them right. Tom H 23:34, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Robin Finck
There is an ongoing debate regarding Robin Finck's discography (even though reliable sources have been presented), can any other project members please leave their opinion on this on Talk:Robin Finck. Thanks, Bucketheader 22:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Songs
Back Off Bitch Bad Apples Bad Obsession Don't Damn Me Dust N' Bones Locomotive (song) Perfect Crime Reckless Life Right Next Door to Hell Shadow of Your Love Shotgun Blues So Fine (song) You Ain't the First

I was looking through the list of articles and saw these, none of them are really noteworthy in GN'R's history and the articles have barely any content. So should they be deleted or redirect to their albums? Funeral 16:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I would have to dissagree, the majority of them have information worth stating, and how are they not noteworthy they are still songs that appeared on albums (accept Shadow of Your Love). Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 18:37, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but not every song on their albums needs to have an article. And the articles don't have any content, really.
 * "Bad Apples is the fourteenth track on Use Your Illusion I, one of two albums released by the hard rock band Guns N' Roses in conjunction with the Use Your Illusion Tour." - That's the Bad Apples article.
 * I think most of these articles should be merged into the songs album's article. Funeral 18:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Some of them like Bad Apples I suppose I don't mind, although I created it, but most of them do have a supportive amount of text. Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 19:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, these are what I think should go: Bad Apples, Don't Damn Me, Locomotive, Perfect Crime, Reckless Life, You Ain't the First, Shadow of Your Love (this was released on a Japan-only EP and as a b-side, it doesn't need an article.) Funeral 19:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright that sounds good, accept I would like to keep Perfect Crime because I think its a noteworthy song due to the resemblance so speed or thrash metal, but all the rest could be redirected to the album page. Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 17:55, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Cool, I'll do it now then. Funeral 17:57, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, thanks now thats done. Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 18:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Problems with 156.x.x.x
Users in that range keep removing acoustic rock from the pages about the songs on the second half of G N' R Lies. I'm not going to revert anymore, so I don't violate 3RR. However some help would be appreciated. FMAFan1990 02:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I will help I think I have the page watched, by the way what did ou do with the UYI1 Article but not UYI2? Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 21:40, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Peer review
How would everyone feel about submitting the Axl Rose article for WP:REVIEW? As everyone, I'd love to see this have FA or A rating, but I'm honestly not sure what can be done to take it there. It's long, it's 100% cited, it's reasonably well-written, and I'm not sure what could be done to improve it at this point. It might be good to get some feedback and suggestions on how the article appears to outside eyes. What do you think? DanielEng 01:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I've just read through it and it seemed good enough. I've removed a line in the relationships section with a 'citation needed' tag, though. Funeral 18:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What about Appetite for Destruction, shouldn't we get that ready for Peer Review or featured article? Skeeker  &#91; Talk &#93; 20:46, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Since Axl Rose does seem ready to go, would people be OK with submitting it for consideration for an A/FA rating?DanielEng 22:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Chinese Democracy
User:Hoshq has started the completely pointless "if released" crap on Chinese Democracy again, so can someone revert his last edit (I can't because of the 3RR) and discuss it on the talk page. Cheers. Funeral 23:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I went over and tried to offer a compromise; we'll see if that works. Anyone else, please feel free to jump in. DanielEng 02:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Any other comments are welcome. I'd really like to get a consensus on the lead-in as soon as possible - the article looks terrible right now. Funeral 23:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi! Ive just joined this group, you may think I have not contributed before, but I just couldnt remember my password lol, I am the guy that had the small debate with funeral over the incersion of the album being a triology thing, and the thing about Rhiad Revival. I am very interested in maintaining these articles but I have limited expreience with the coding of Wikipedia, but I know enough, just not enough to start a fancy article! My main place I will keep an eye on is Chinese Democracy and I can guarantee i know a lot about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deleriousfishman (talk • contribs) 20:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Welcome! It's nice to see other people wanting to edit the Chinese Democracy article.
 * The things to look out for on there are: People adding Amazon's fake release dates to the infobox, and recently a lot of people have been adding "The General" to the confirmed tracks table... Even though Bach said it won't be on the album. Funeral 20:52, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Appetite for Destruction
I submited a peer review for Appetite, this album should be FA. Skeeker &#91; Talk &#93; 01:02, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

GA Review
Does anybody want to address the citations for the GA Review?--Mike Searson (talk) 14:54, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Axl Rose GA review
The article is up for GA and seems to be very close, but there's a lot of work that needs to be done with the references, adding access dates, etc.

I've done a lot of work on the article but I can't do all this alone. If another editor on the Project would like to step in and help (the GA reviewer has been kind enough to leave a long note detailing what needs to be tweaked), it would be appreciated. I've already gone through the article and fixed all the spacing and placement noted, but help with the refs formatting would be appreciated. We have seven days from today. DanielEng (talk) 04:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll see what I can do, but I must say, great work so far :)  Spebi  05:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you! I try. :) Any help at all would really be appreciated...trying to figure out how to format the refs the way they want is making my head spin. DanielEng (talk) 05:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I've also re-written Chinese Democracy, which I've nominated to be a GA. Funeral 16:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI: The Axl Rose article passed and is now a GA. :) DanielEng (talk) 21:18, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Importance Scale
So by that scale, the article on Frank Ferrer is more relevant to Guns N' Roses than the article on Slash is? Lol. Superior1 (talk) 06:21, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Not more relevant, but a higher priority because Frank is a current band member. Although I'm sure that exceptions like Slash could probably have a higher ranking on the scale due to their general all-round importance and influence on the band. Or we can discuss changing the scale to something more appropriate.  Spebi  08:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

THere are quite a few people that only know slash as the lead guitarist. he is much more imporant than most of the current members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tiefenja (talk • contribs) 00:17, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Project Template - Attention=yes
It appears that the "attention=yes" parameter might not be implemented in Template:WikiProject Guns N' Roses, despite the suggestion to use this parameter that is located on your Main WikiProject page. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 17:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: Anything Goes (Guns N' Roses song)

 * --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 17:24, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion: You're Crazy

 * --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 18:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Schedule for Use Your Illusion Tour
What happened to the separate article listing the dates on the Use Your Illusion Tour? It looks like it got speedily deleted? Does anyone miss it? Cause, I for one, find the tour dates on this tour to be very integral to following the history of Guns N' Roses and what happened when and where. If people had issue with it being its own article, perhaps it could be merged into the Use Your Illusion Tour article. Most articles on concert tours do list the tour dates, so I don't see why the UYI tour can't have them listed. Also, simple referencing/citing sources goes a long way in preventing deletion. If people disagree with listing the dates on WP, an external link at the bottom of the Use Your Illusion article to a listing of tour dates would be helpful. Abog (talk) 02:32, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

userboxes
are there any userboxes for this wikiproject? if not, there should be some. LukeTheSpook (talk) 19:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Axl Rose article helpers needed
For the past few days, there's been a new user consistently deleting Chinese Democracy from the discography on the Axl Rose page. I've reverted twice and left a note for the user, but I'm in no shape to be getting into an edit war right now or watchdog the article to make sure it's not disrupted again. I'd appreciate it if other GnRWP users could keep an eye on the article and help out here. Thanks. DanielEng (talk) 19:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect capitalization?
I believe the correct way to spell this band's name would be Guns n' Roses, not Guns N' Roses. The most notable reason is that as per WP:MUSTARD, the word "and" and its contractions (such as "n'") should not be capitalized. Also, all of their album show have the band name in all caps, like GUNS N' ROSES, so the band hasn't intentionally capitalized the "n'". Should I fix the capitalization? Xnux  the   Echidna  21:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No, because the "Guns N' Roses" spelling is completely correct. The band has intentionally capitalized the N. Here's the cover of GN'R Lies: look in the top righthand corner and you will see the name when it is not in all caps. All of the band's official documentation uses the capital N, as do all the reliable news and media outlets (some examples from the official site, Rolling Stone, the Associated Press and the BBC:, , , ).

Grammar rules and WP:MUSTARD do not apply to personal or band names; the conventions of WP:NAME do. DanielEng (talk) 02:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, but I don't see where WP:NAME supports the capitalization of "N'". Under WP:NAME#Album and song titles and band names, it says not to capitalize the word "and", and later says not to use stylized typography in logos and album art.


 * I think I should point out that the album Bridge over Troubled Water is shown as Bridge Over Troubled Water on the album art. The All Music Guide, Robert Christgau, Rolling Stone, and Simon and Garfunkel's offical website also refer to the album with "over" capitalized, yet Wikipedia uses the correct capitalization.


 * WP:NAME does fully support this in several places:
 * 1.Convention: Do not capitalize second and subsequent words unless the title is almost always capitalized in English (for example, proper names).


 * 2. Use the most common name of a person or thing.


 * We're talking about the proper name of a group, not a song title. Under WP:NAME, the precedent is to give the most commonly used and accepted spelling of proper names of people and things, regardless of how they sit with grammar. The requirement to accurately spell and capitalize the band's name supersedes the grammar rule about "and." The rule generally applies to bands with "and the..." in the title, for instance, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts or Balaam and the Angel. Guns N' Roses is the band's name. "Guns n' Roses" is not. There's absolutely no reason why a factually accurate name, that is used by the band and has been used in the media for 21 years, should be changed to something incorrect to satisfy a non-applicable grammar rule.


 * Other examples of how WP:NAME applies to band names (ie, the actual spelling/caps should be used) would be The Cure, The Cult or The Beatles ("The" is capitalized in the articles, even in the middle of sentences), Enuff Z'Nuff (which probably violates about a million grammar rules), The B-52's (there shouldn't be an apostrophe, but that's how the band spells its name), The Mamas & the Papas, etc. DanielEng (talk) 04:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, you convinced me with that Enuff Z'Nuff reference. XD Thanks!  Xnux   the   Echidna  13:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
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Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Guns N' Roses
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The membership controversy
Since there is a controversy between User:Travelling Tragition on one side and several people   on the other side: Is the official MySpace of GnR a reliable source or not? --Say Headcheese!-- hexa Chord 2  17:16, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Has an official source ever confirmed either of them has left the band? Or are we still going with the "they suddenly disappeared from MySpace" argument? &mdash; Travelling Tragition ( Talk ) 17:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Buckethead task force
WP:BH wants to expand into a real WikiProject and maybe include additional related artists in the future. See WT:BH for discussion. Any input welcomed! Happy new Headcheese!- hexa Chord 2  02:18, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Unreleased song articles
I have put PRODs on a string of articles about unreleased Guns N'Roses songs which say simply that "The song was never released, however, demo tapes have spread across the Internet. Not much is known by the song, except that it was written by the band but was never published onto a record." That seems to me to fail WP:NSONGS quite comprehensively, but I am posting here in case someone has more information that might make a viable article. The titles are Bring It Back Home, Goodnight Tonight (Guns N' Roses song), Liqour and Whores, Night Crawler, Sentimental Movie, Sex, Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll and Sorry I Ruined the Show. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 10:58, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I tagged most of them, plus setting   but the feature does not seem to work at all.--Avant-garde a clue- hexa  Chord 2  11:23, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 *  hexa Chord 2  has suggested that it would be better to have a joint AfD, so I have raised one here. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 16:08, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

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EP (Guns N' Roses EP)
Obviously not a very good name, I'm trying to find out a better title for this article. I suggest moving it to Guns N' Roses (EP). Please read my argumentation on the article's talk page and comment. Cheers, theFace  16:56, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * EP is bad, yes. I support your proposal. -- Avant-garde a clue - hexa Chord 2  17:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:23, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment on Biographies of living people
Hello Wikiproject! Currently there is a discussion which will decide whether wikipedia will delete 49,000 articles about a living person without references, here:

Requests for comment/Biographies of living people

Since biographies of living people covers so many topics, many wikiproject topics will be effected.

The two opposing positions which have the most support is:
 * 1) supports the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, User:Jehochman
 * 2) opposes the deletion of unreferenced articles about a living person, except in limited circumstances, User:Collect

Comments are welcome. Keep in mind that by default, editor's comments are hidden. Simply press edit next to the section to add your comment.

Please keep in mind that at this point, it seems that editors support deleting unreferenced BLP articles if they are not sourced, so your project may want to source these articles as soon as possible. See the next, message, which may help.

Tools to help your project with unreferenced Biographies of living people
If you don't already have this and are interested in creating a list of articles which need cleanup for your wikiproject see: Cleanup listings A list of examples is here
 * List of cleanup articles for your project

If you are interested in moving unreferenced blp articles that your project covers, to a special "incubation page", contact me, User talk:Ikip
 * Moving unreferenced blp articles to a special "incubation pages"

If you are interested in watchlisting all of the unreferenced articles once you install Cleanup_listings, contact me, User talk:Ikip
 * Watchlisting all unreferenced articles

Ikip 05:23, 26 January 2010 (UTC)