Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hawaii/Archive 2

Award template
I've been meaning to do this forever, but I've created an award template for WikiProject Hawaii at WikiProject Hawaii/The Aloha Plumeria. Thoughts and comments are welcome. Mahalo! -- jonny - m t  09:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

CfD notice
Just wanted to let everyone know that I've nominated endemic flora of hawaii for renaming to flora of hawaii. The discussion is at Categories for discussion/Log/2008 March 12 if anyone would like to comment. Mahalo! -- jonny - m t  02:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * People are moving and deleting categories too much, and there is no centralized log to follow the history. I am fairly certain that the category you are requesting previously existed, but was deleted.  The move log in the history only shows the bot edit, presumably from the last CfD, which moved the category on 17:02, 4 June 2007 to its current name.  Please help track down the history of page moves and deletions in regards to this category, as there has been discussion about this before, if I am not mistaken.  The old Flora cat contained the native flora cat, which was moved.  We're going around in circles with this again.  Flora of Hawaii does not necessarily mean native or endemic.  If you could also investigate exactly what it does mean, that would help.  It is my understanding that some of the editors involved in categorization are not using it appropriately, hence the confusion.  I have serious disagreements with a particular active editor on CfD, who I feel has done a huge disservice to the entire project, so I will not be getting involved in any discussion outside this project page. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 02:34, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll do my best. Frankly, I thought it was simply a spelling and convenience issue, but it's turning into a fairly interesting discussion.  If the bot moved the category on June 4, 2007, that means there should be a discussion in the CfD log around that date that we can reference; I'll take a look later and see if I can't dig it up. -- jonny - m  t  05:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 05:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I found the CfD at Categories for discussion/Log/2007 May 24. Cydebot also made this edit reclassifying Category:Trees of Hawaii under the new category.


 * Incidentally, if you haven't been watching the discussion, there's actually a fairly robust proposal now. The suggestion has been made to withdraw the nomination and move forward with the discussed changes, but I'm partial to letting it run for about 24 hours or so in order to make sure that we get a well-rounded opinion from contributors around the globe. -- jonny - m  t  06:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you been able to find a deletion log for Category:Flora of Hawaii? &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 06:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not for Category:Flora of Hawaii--from what I can tell, this category never existed. However, Category:Hawaii native flora was deleted by User:Cyde following the move by User:Cydebot. -- jonny - m  t  06:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

More streamlined design?
I have a design in mind (feel free to modify the colors). Check it out at User:Cuyler91093/Sandbox/WP:HAWAII. It resembles the main page, but I believe it's way more organized than the current design. Cuyler 91093  ( Contribs ) 08:21, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do it. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 10:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Seconded. -- jonny - m t  02:24, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The reason why I wanted to ask you guys first was because I didn't want to appear "reckless", so the bold page says. I'm glad that you like it! Cuyler  91093  ( Contribs ) 00:45, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't stop now, we can use an entire project redesign. The only problem is with the "Articles" subsection; as a project, we aren't responsible for bringing all of these articles to their present assessment; in many cases the project tag is simply on the talk page.  In others, project participants have actively worked on the article.  So we should think about highlighting only the articles the project has actively worked on; I don't like taking credit for the hard work of other editors.  BTW, there are quite a number of articles tagged by this project that are either very close to GA, or could use a little tender loving care to reach FA.  We should talk about those as well. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 01:52, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hear, hear! I think we should start something like a collaboration of the week to focus on bringing B-class articles up to GA status and GA-class articles  up to FA status.  First, though, we should probably have a reassessment drive to make sure we know where everything stands--this could easily be set up by using AWB to tag all articles of a certain class for reassessment.  Thoughts? -- jonny - m  t  01:23, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I support Jonny's ideas and look forward to helping out, but I have some helpful suggestions for further discussion: 1) The project is already informally collaborating with a number of WikiProjects; efforts should be made to formalize this relationship by establishing the collaboration department. I can help out with this as well.  2) Although I support the reassessment drive effort, I suggest that we focus on bringing B-Class articles to spec first.  That is to say, the project is using the B-Class assessment far too loosely at this point.  So rather than going all out on a reassessment, let's tighten up the standards first; I'll try to modify the template tomorrow.  3) At the minimum, a reassessment drive of the stub category should and could proceed immediately, so if anyone wants to start crawling that category with AWB, please have at it!  4) New article assessment should be performed on a daily basis using the bot feed on the project page.  We are really behind on this, so AWB comes in handy here, too.  But, beware of the false positives.  5) We also need to keep working on a project redesign, portal redesign, and a newsletter.  6) If anyone wants to coordinate with User:MPerel on any AWB work, please contact her.  She is thinking about using regex to italicize Hawaiian words, but it seems like a lot of work.  We should probably update the assessment subpage to keep everyone aware of who is doing what.  7)  Ingrid hasn't run User:WatchlistBot since August 2007, so our watchlist needs a serious update.  We can either run the bot ourselves or make a bot request for it to be run by another user.  &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 10:41, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yay! Things are actually getting done! Just leave a message on my talk page for things that you want me to do. おべんとう   むすび  ( Contributions ) 07:22, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Just keep doing what you are doing. But, what should I call you now?  Obento,  Musubi, or Obento Musubi?  Can I just call you OM? :)  Wait, I have a better idea!  You can be like the artist formerly known as Prince, and go by the name of  [[Image:Aum.svg|15px]]. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 08:01, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Official Newsletter
I think that once we get this project running, it would be great to have a WikiProject Hawaii Newsletter. – The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 09:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have started the official newsletter page, which I expect should be up and running at the earliest by mid-April to early-May, and, at the most, early- to mid-June. You can see it here. If you don't like the logo, please send me a message on my talk page and tell me how I can make it better. All feedback is greatly appreciated! If you wish to participate, just put your name on the page with three tildes and write what you believe you will do. – The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 06:09, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I have finished the newsletter for April 2008! –The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 08:35, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Organization of project
I don't mean to be offensive or anything, but this page is really unorganized. I hope to do a makeover of where things are located. Anyone interested in helping? See WP:ITALY for a model. I would like to put thumbs and get rid of that HUGE part with "Requested articles to be reviewed" or something. – The Obento   Musubi  ( Contributions ) 08:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You're not offensive; criticism is good-it's how we improve. However, you removed some very important links, such as deletion sorting and a few others.  No matter, we'll get it all worked out.  :) &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 10:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Hawaii
I modified Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Hawaii to make it easier for photographers in Hawaii to find requested photograph articles about subjects near where they live so that they may be more likely to fill the request. Thanks. GregManninLB (talk) 16:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * And I'm reverting all your changes. Next time you do this to a project, you come here first to discuss it.  You've depopulated our image categories which has led to their deletion, and their removal from our active worklist.  Please discuss major changes before implementing them.  We welcome photographers to work with us, but do not appreciate you forcing your system on us. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 11:52, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Waialae
I've created this article as a disambig, although I'm not sure I've got all my facts straight... I also created a redirect to it from Waiʻalae. Could someone more "in the know" take a look at what I've done and fix it (or add to it!) as necessary? Thanks, Tomertalk 16:01, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'm going to pass this on to User:JHunterJ, a member of the dab project. Viriditas (talk) 10:35, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I commented out half of the entries -- they had no Wikipedia article to disambiguate, which is the purpose of disambiguation pages. I found blue links for two of the others and added them, and moved the one that had its own link (the country club) up.  And a few other tweaks. Cheers! -- JHunterJ (talk) 12:38, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Honolulu class
The Obento Musubi just changed Honolulu's class rating from "Top" importance to "Need" importance. I observe that T.O.M. is a member of this project; but I've never heard of any project sponsoring such a move. In fact, I've never heard of anyone but vandals doing this — but I think we can safely assume that T.O.M., an editor for 2½ years, isn't a vandal, so surely s/he must have had some valid reason for doing this. Being confused about it, I've undone the edit, and asked T.O.M. to comment here. Nyttend (talk) 04:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, I apologize for any confusion I've caused. I'm not very good at making judgment calls about importance and class, so I trust you guys know what you're doing. As for me, well, I'm here for designing templates and making things look better. Please do what you feel is better, and, again, I apologize for all confusion I may have created. I just thought Honolulu was really important, considering it's the capital of our state. But, again, I assume you guys know better. Thank you for reverting my edit, and, again, mea culpa. Thank you, – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 04:56, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Redesigning the Assessment Template
I took the time to redesign the assessment template a bit. I would like your input on the template (it looks best using Firefox). – Obento Musubi (C • G • S) 07:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The colors are different, too. You can go to WP:Hawaii/class for the colors (replace "class" with FA, FL, A, GA, etc.).

Wikipedia Loves Art museum photography event in Honolulu Feb 14, 15 and 27
Our museum photography event is February 14, 15 and 27 at the Honolulu Academy of Arts. Check it out! If wiki folks want to go together, I would recommend the 15th, since it's Bank of Hawaii Free Sunday.--Pharos (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Afd nomination of Airlines Based in Hawaii
An article within the scope of this WikiProject, Airlines Based in Hawaii, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Airlines Based in Hawaii. Thank you. -- Hawaiian717 (talk) 03:45, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Consensus was to keep and article was moved to new title, List of airlines in Hawaii. Viriditas (talk) 04:50, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

FAC
Loihi Seamount is on its FA nom. Res Mar 22:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Article did not pass. Viriditas (talk) 04:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Featured picture nomination of "Hawaii bathymetry"
File:Bathymetry image of the Hawaiian archipelago.png is being reviewed for Featured Picture status at Featured picture candidates/Hawaii Bathymetry. Any feedback would be appreciated, but be sure to familiarize yourself with the Featured picture criteria before reviewing the photo. This image is featured in Hawaii hotspot. -- ErgoSum • talk • trib  21:15, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Image was not promoted. Viriditas (talk) 04:46, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Identification of File:Hawaiiana Award.png
Can anyone tell me what the large item and the smaller (possibly amulet?) on the cord are or represent? Anything you recognize? Mahalo. Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 06:15, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
 * User:Kintetsubuffalo answered the question here. Viriditas (talk) 04:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Hawaii State Seal
In the overview section, there is a red link to the Hawaii State Seal. It appears to be deleted. Does anyone have access to a public domain image that would suffice? --Jp07 (talk) 06:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * File:Hawaiistateseal.png. Viriditas (talk) 06:57, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Ann Dunham GAC
Ann Dunham has been nominated as a good article. Reviewers have made comments and raised concerns here. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 04:47, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

List of beaches in Hawaii
Just a note that I have revamped the List of beaches in Hawaii from a numbered list to a sortable Wikitable (for selfish reasons, I was having trouble finding Kamaʻole I Beach Park in the list to see if there was an article, which there wasn't). I think that I kept the order correct (starting in the Northwest and going clockwise), however I did muddle up the first one by trying to sort it (I missed the hat note). I think I fixed it but it might not hurt for someone to have a gander to make sure I didn't foul up the whole system. Also if someone knows of a source that lists the lengths, that might be an interesting column to add, make the list sortable by length. Cheers. --kelapstick (talk) 22:29, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Good job. Hopefully, we can get more people working on this list. Viriditas (talk) 15:55, 19 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, looks like an improvement, thanks. The only downside I see is that once you sort one of the columns alphabetically, how do you get back to the original rotational order? I guess just refresh the page works, so is it worth putting the numbers back in somehow as a positional column, or is there some other way to go back to original order? I find the positional order somewhat useful, to know where they are better than just a CDP name. And of course the content needs much work, e.g. some include the words "Beach" or "Beach Park" in their names, others not. W Nowicki (talk) 16:29, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * A numbered column would solve this, no? Viriditas (talk) 16:37, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

ScholarSpace at University of Hawaii at Manoa
All URL's for PDF's and articles located at ScholarSpace at University of Hawaii at Manoa will need to be checked and updated due to recent changes on that site. I am currently in the process of updating all links to the Hawaiian Journal of History. If anyone has a list of other publications linked to scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu, please add them here. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 22:04, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Broken links were moved to Oceania Digital Library Project
 * Update:
 * Broken: Hawaiian Historical Society Annual reports
 * New link
 * Broken: Hawaiian Journal of History
 * New link
 * No change: Pacific Science
 * Broken: Papers of the Hawaiian Historical Society
 * ''New link

Article alerts
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If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the  parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Wikipedia:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Wikipedia talk:Article alerts.

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Thanks. — Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:13, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Copy and pasted content from USFWS
At least six articles have recently been created with content copied in whole or in part from USFWS:


 * Hakalau Forest National Wildlife Refuge
 * Pearl Harbor National Wildlife Refuge
 * Oahu Forest National Wildlife Refuge
 * Hanalei National Wildlife Refuge ‎
 * Kakahaia National Wildlife Refuge ‎
 * James Campbell National Wildlife Refuge

Trivia
Hi all, I guess firstly I'm a bit flattered to be called an "expert" in something, even if it's trivia :-)

On Wikipedia, we try to avoid creating lists of miscellaneous facts, and in particular we try to avoid trivia. This is somewhat controversial, many believe that the function of Wikipedia is to supply information about everything and anything. This is not the case - Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and we are categorically not an indiscriminate collection of information. On Wikipedia, we are trying very hard to provide useful and neutral information that is verifiable from a reliable external source. Trivia is by its very definition "unimportant" information, which I'm certain nobody is really particularly fond of if they really thought about it.

I have been trying to cleanup our exceedingly large backlog of articles with trivia sections. While looking through the 500 or so articles I've modified so far, I have noticed the following interesting things about material in trivia sections. The first is that the vast majority of information in these sections is completely unverified. This breaks one of the central tenants of Wikipedia &mdash; all material must be sourced. Information on Wikipedia must have an independent, verifiable reference to back it up. Given the nature of Wikipedia &mdash; an encyclopedia that anyone can edit &mdash; many incredible and false facts can be potentially added by anonymous editors, vandals, trolls or crackpots. This makes us unreliable, and weakens the project as a whole. Note that I am not saying that anyone here would deliberately add in false information, however as a whole on Wikipedia we just don't know who our editors are. This is our greatest strength yet our greatest weakness, yet if we follow the policy of supplying a verifiable source, then we mitigate this problem of unreliable information.

I have also noticed that if the material is actually sourced, it is actually usually quite important information. For instance, I found in the Charles Addams article that someone had noted his familial relations, from a reliable source. This is not trivia! The information is interesting and important, so I would not have added it to the trivia section. The material was better off in the "Life" section, which is where I ultimately merged it.

Trivia sections, to my mind, encourage sloppy writing and encourage unsourced material to be added in a disorganised fashion to Wikipedia. This makes our articles unreliable, hard to read and encyclopaedic.

So what can we do about this? For the Hawaiian Wikiproject, my advise is this: when you see an article with a trivia section do the following:
 * Remove all the unsourced material, and then take it to the talk page to ask if someone knows the sources to the material. Of course, if you know of a source, then feel free to add it.
 * For the material that has a source, think whether it really is trivia. Most likely, if the material is well sourced it's actually important information that deserves to be incorporated into the main article. In this case, try to merge it in. This can be tricky, but ultimately it will improve the readibility and quality of the article itself.
 * If the material really does seem quite trivial, then I suggest removing it and noting why on the talk page. You might be suprised though; in my experience, I have almost never had to do this!

If anyone has any questions, or if they are interested in fixing trivia sections of articles that aren't to do with Hawaii, then please let me know or even better, dive in and let's get our backlog of trivia down! - Tbsdy lives (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) talk 11:40, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Articles with trivia sections

 * Magnum, P.I. (May 2007)
 * Hawaii Five-O (Jun 2007)
 * Lilo & Stitch: The Series (Jun 2007)
 * Orville "Rick" Wright (Jun 2007)
 * Hanalei, Hawaii (Aug 2007)
 * Leonard Peters (Oct 2007)
 * Paradise, Hawaiian Style (Jan 2008)
 * Russ Francis (May 2008)
 * Theodore Calvin (May 2008)
 * Jonathan Higgins (Jun 2008)


 * Hi Viriditas... would mind sharing the search used to generate the above list with other WikiProjects? Tomertalk  14:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
 * User:B._Wolterding/Cleanup_listings. Viriditas (talk) 10:34, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

let us please learn the history first.
i am a native hawaiian who has joined the marine corp, done the research, traveled many countries, worked many jobs, and has traveled around the us and can atest to the fact that the majority of americans do not know the true history of hawaii. among the places i've been and people i have mingled with none, and i mean none, know anything about the hawaiian people. most of the outsiders do not know and are very ignorant of the wrong-doing of missionaries, so called discoverers, greedy sugar moguls, disease filled sailors, the us government, cheap labor imports, murder of kalakaua, great mahele, captain cook, the pali, the deaths of the indigenous by disease, or even the basic beliefs of the people who inhabited these islands over a thousand years before any outside influence. in fact, the only thing people know is cocoanuts and palm trees. but its the same with native alaskans, native americans, any group of indigenous people of any land. i would like to target the white, caucasion, european etc..... influance on any culture. research all of the effects on each respective groups of people, and reason for retribution. the basic haole or white, caucasion reply would be "we are not responsible" show me im wrong. and think deaply. 204.210.104.128 (talk) 12:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The subject is acculturation and it is an important issue in anthropology, with a broad reach across all disciplines. Even SETI is concerned about it.  It is one of the more fascinating topics, and I encourage you to keep writing about it.  A valid topic for inclusion might be named Acculturation of Native Hawaiians, so you could start there. Viriditas (talk) 13:06, 23 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Sure, this project could use more help. Just please keep a neutral point of view, of course. Present the facts and let readers make ethical judgements. I would say even many people who live in Hawaii do not know the history, or have a view skewed one way or another. I have been working on the Hawaiian missionaries, trying to keep a balanced view. Certainly their writing at the time strikes me racist at times, by today's standards. In my opinion it is usally their children and grand-children that caused the trouble, but that is just opinion. Most of the Hawaiian royalty articles and definitely Ancient Hawaii period need work. Certainly issues like the population decimation by disease, plantation culture, etc. all could use new articles. Don't just complain, help us with the work. Mahalo. W Nowicki (talk) 17:48, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Article alerts
You've recently subscribed to WP:AALERTS, but the link (WikiProject Hawaii/Article alerts) is nowhere to be found on you project page. A reminder that it's a good idea to give that link, otherwise people won't know it exists (thus defeating the purpose of being subscribed in the first place...). Headbomb {{{sup|ταλκ}}κοντριβς – WP Physics} 23:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't want to add the link until the bot ran earlier today, and even then, the current alert was basically empty (except for Outline of Hawaii bulk-listed at AfD along with all the other outlines). Anyway, I've added the link to the main project page under "watchlist".  If someone could get it to align with the row, that would be great. Viriditas (talk) 15:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

WP 1.0 bot announcement
This message is being sent to each WikiProject that participates in the WP 1.0 assessment system. On Saturday, January 23, 2010, the WP 1.0 bot will be upgraded. Your project does not need to take any action, but the appearance of your project's summary table will change. The upgrade will make many new, optional features available to all WikiProjects. Additional information is available at the WP 1.0 project homepage. &mdash; Carl (CBM · talk) 03:23, 22 January 2010 (UTC)