Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology

Question of correct naming and spelling in English, translating Polish

 * Greetings to all! I copy discussion from talk page of --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here and also from article Heraldic family. I invite You to discuss this matter to reach consensus.

UK county flags discussion
A discussion has been opened at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography concerning the UK county flags, which you are welcome to participate in. Thanks, A.D.Hope (talk) 11:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Royal heraldry svg deletion discussion
There is a deletion discussion at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Coat of arms of Queen Camilla.svg that may be of interest to members of this project. GrindtXX (talk) 23:20, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Digital and physical flags
This is currently regarding flags of Latvia and Bulgaria. Both of these countries have defined flags to be used in ditigal spaces, prints or other places other than flying the flag on a pole in real life, being different from the real life flags in shades of their coloring. Should the main flag on the articles Flag of Latvia and Flag of Bulgaria be the real flag or the digital flag? This discussion is also regarding the default flag in templates Template:Country data Latvia and Template:Country data Bulgaria — IмSтevan  talk 13:11, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I have added a picture for the Latvian flag due to moves and deletitions — IмSтevan  talk 13:20, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It should be the digital flag, Stevan. I already told you this on the talk page for Flag of Latvia yet you never responded when I did so, even though you were still active. You are saying you are basing this off the sources in the description when that *literally* says what the colors should be digitally. You haven't offered any reason as to why you did this without a consensus in the first place either. NorthTension (talk) 04:56, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * All flags we use are the ones used physically. Why would we make an exception without any consensus on doing so? We don't have to abide by Latvian flag laws, so that's not exactly an arguement either — IмSтevan  talk 09:41, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * So why did you cite the flag laws then if we don't have to abide by them? NorthTension (talk) 11:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Because they state that there are multiple versions of the flag. I can't just go around making up national flags with no source — IмSтevan  talk 11:40, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You said, "per sources laid out in the description (latvian flag laws)," and the flag laws you are sourcing say: "If the national flag of Latvia or the pennant of the national flag of Latvia is made from a textile, the carmine colour thereof shall conform with the Pantone Textile Colour System 19-1629 TPX or 19-1629 TC Colour Code", this isn't made from textile and as such it should be defaulting to the thing exactly below it saying "The 27 November 2018 amendment, which came into force 1 January 2019, states that non-fabric flags, as well as representations produced using other techniques (including digital representations), use Pantone 201 C."
 * And no, we don't only ever use the physical ones, and you can't go, "Well, why can't we do X without any consensus?" when I've called you out on a unilateral change. Do you have an actual argument, or are you trying to deflect with a whataboutism because you don't? NorthTension (talk) 12:29, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * "This isn't made from textile and as such it should be defaulting to the thing exactly below it", where was this agreed on? Give me an example of the physical flag not being used as the default — IмSтevan  talk 12:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay so you don't have an argument then, got it. Can you yourself then give me an example of "all flags we use are the ones used physically?" Burden is lying on you because it's your claim. NorthTension (talk) 12:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Saying "you don't have an arguement" when somebody provides you with an arguement is real mature. I'm not providing 200 sources because you're incapable of supporting your claim with a single Wikimedia file — IмSтevan  talk 12:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you disagree with anything I said? — IмSтevan  talk 12:00, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @ImStevan@NorthTension There are RGB values for Bulgarian flag colors and they are quite different from the print ones. But in Wiki the print ones are used, and going through the the file's upload history you can see that they decided on Pantone colors because the digital ones just don't look good, and there was a consensus to do it. There is no consistency on which version is used primarily for the main flag for different countries (look at Italy's flag and its history). In the case of this flag, while the points made by ImStevan are not invalid, the existence of legally specified digital colors and the fact that they look good (not like Bulgaria), I side with Pantone 201 C. That being said I will not revert if it is decided that textile colors are to be used. Kamran.nef (talk) 01:52, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We're not exactly here to decide what looks good tho — IмSтevan  talk 08:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Discussion on Russian coats of arms
An editor has requested assistance regarding whether the coats of arms included in the article Coat of arms of Russia are the correct ones. Please see. voorts (talk/contributions) 20:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

enarchment
See Talk:Embowed, where I raised a question in 2010 to silence —Tamfang (talk) 18:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Long-due removal of fake flags
It appears that several flags on this wiki have been the brainchild of Oleg Tarnovsky, an individual who has made up multiple flags back in the 90s/2000s and his work has been erroneously been propogated as factual by multiple vexiollogical sites.

Some examples are listed below;

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Tripolitanian_Republic.svg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Free_State_of_Chutkotka.svg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bandera_de_Kamchatka,_1921-1922.svg

In lieu of this, I propose the project makes a conceded effort to remove these flags from articles and to mark them correctly as being fictional/erroneous. Thanks.

🤓 WeaponizingArchitecture  &#124;  scream at me  🤓 15:19, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Free equivalents of non-free COA
I'm wondering whether anyone from WP:HERALDRY would mind taking a shot at creating some free quivalents for the following non-free COA: File:Coat of Arms of Norberto do Amaral.png, File:Coat of arms of Harry Goodhew.jpg, File:Coat of arms of Kay Goldsworthy.gif, File:Coat of arms of OM XII Fajutagana.png, File:Coat of arms of OM XIV Porlares.png, File:Coat of Arms of Felipe Pulido(San Diego).jpg, File:Coat of Arms of Jeffrey Marc Monforton(Detroit).jpg and File:Coat of arms of archbishop Thomas Chung An-zu.png. All these were almost certainly uploaded in good faith, but there seem to be issues with them per WP:FREER and WP:NFC that might mean they can't per WP:NFCC given that it's only the emblazon, not the blazon, that is generally considered eligible for copyright protection when it comes to COA; so, freely licensed emblazons of equivalent quality could replace these non-free ones. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:13, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Need help with St Louis flag, please and thank you?


On left is the flag of the American city of St. Louis. I don't know heraldry at all, but looking it up I came up with

I think that is right, except probably the bezant part. It is not a coin, and it has a fleur-de-lis on it. I'm not sure what to do and request advice? Should I


 * 1) Leave it be, it's OK
 * 2) Add "decorated/emblezoned/whatever with a fleur-de-lis"
 * 3) Delete the phrase "with a bezant" altogether.
 * 4) Delete the entire phrase, as the "with a bezant" is incorrect and has no proper replacement, thus the description is incomplete and this is not acceptable, or delete for other reasons
 * 5) Other?

Thanking you for your consideration, Herostratus (talk) 16:33, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I would blazon it Gules, a pall fesswise wavy azure fimbriated argent, surmounted at the junction by a bezant charged with a fleur-de-lis azure. Others may do differently. —Tamfang (talk) 03:36, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah, very good, I will use that, thank you (I'll write "could be described as..." to account for it being apparantly arguable). Herostratus (talk) 12:46, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:List of flags containing the color purple
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:List of flags containing the color purple that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe Edits! Talk! 19:16, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

UK sub-national geographic flags discussion
There is a discussion taking place at WikiProject UK geography about the use of flags in articles about UK sub-national geographic areas (e.g. counties). Anyone is welcome to participate; some knowledge of the UK's administrative structure would be beneficial. Thanks, A.D.Hope (talk) 07:58, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/List of country subdivision flags in Africa (2nd nomination)
There is an AFD taking place at the above link that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 02:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Seal (East Asia)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Seal (East Asia) that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Remsense 诉  08:47, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

Looking for freely licensed equivalent emblazon for non-free COA
I'm looking for someone who could create a freely licensed equivalent embazon for the non-free File:Latymer Upper School coat of arms 2020 –.png. Anyone able to do so? -- Marchjuly (talk) 21:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)