Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/Archive 2008

Merger proposal - views sought
A discussion is taking place over whether to merge Flag of the United Kingdom and Union Flag, and which article should be merged into which. (A related discussion is also taking place over the name of the article Union Flag, specifically whether it should be Union Jack.)

View are welcome. --sony-youth pléigh 02:22, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Coat of arms
I am dealing with an editor who is adding dubious information to the coat of arms article. Specifically, he is adding information that does not check out with his cited sources. The editor insists on keeping the information in the article. See the article talk page for the odd discussion that has resulted. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Coatofarms infobox
Someone's hacked up something nice on Coat of arms of Romania, if that could be used as a standard. 68.39.174.238 (talk) 19:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the notice. I'll be working on the template.  -- I. Pankonin  Review me!  09:50, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Documentation to follow in a day or so. -- I. Pankonin  Review me!  11:36, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A similar box can be seen at Coat of arms of Munich. I'm really not sure if an infobox is necessary for CoA articles. Optional, perhaps, but I would not enforce it as a blanket standard. The same can be said for the flag infobox. - 52 Pickup  (deal) 15:06, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Lack of feedback regarding heraldic officers' succession boxes
Please don't make me re-post this message. Waltham, The Duke of 21:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Delhi and Mowbray Heralds of Arms Extraordinary...
Hello all&mdash;I've left a couple of messages here. Your input would be much appreciated. Thanks! talkGiler 14:17, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Reminder of the Philip Greenspun Illustration project
Hi. You may be familiar with the Philip Greenspun Illustration Project. $20,000 has been donated to pay for the creation of high quality diagrams for Wikipedia and its sister projects.

Requests are currently being taken at Philip Greenspun illustration project/Requests and input from members of this project would be very welcome. If you can think of any diagrams (not photos or maps) that would be useful then I encourage you to suggest them at this page. If there is any free content material that would assist in drawing the diagram then it would be great if you could list that, too.

If there are any related (or unrelated) WikiProjects you think might have some suggestions then please pass this request over. Thanks. --Cherry blossom tree 16:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Heraldry/Web resources
Portal:Heraldry/Web resources is on MfD at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Heraldry/Web resources you may wish to comment there. --Salix alba (talk) 20:21, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Italian heraldic question
I have come across an Italian crest which is surmounted by a crown with 5 balls. What does this mean under Italian heraldic rules please? It seems to be the crest of Francesco Ognibene of Palermo. It could be described as a lion on its hind legs facing right and holding fleur-de-lys (or 3 feathers) in its right paw, on a field azure. Maybe there is a better place for me to ask this. Thank you in advance. CarbonLifeForm (talk) 10:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:Country data Croatia
Please could you help? More on the template talk page. -- Imbris (talk) 00:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:Country data Serbia
National flag of Serbia is still in use. There should not even exist - that file National flag of Serbia 2004-2006.svg because that is not true, the National flag of Serbia is still in use and were used at appropriate historical times listed on the template. See more at Template talk:Country data Serbia -- Imbris (talk) 20:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Replaced. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:Country data Serbian Krajina
False. Completely and Utterly. -- Imbris (talk) 21:49, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Template talk:Country data Yugoslavia
Changes requested at the above template talk page. Please respond and post your comments on the above link. -- Imbris (talk) 01:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Can some user with appropriate powers help us. -- Imbris (talk) 00:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Flags of North America proposed for deletion
An article within the scope of this project, Flags of North America, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Articles for deletion/Flags of North America. Thank you. --ScottMainwaring (talk) 08:05, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Ashmole
Elias Ashmole has been nominated for a featured article review. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here.

Category:Flags by year of adoption
I just came across the article Flag of Honduras, which has been added to Category:1866 establishments. I propose creating a separate subcategorisation structure for flags. The parent category would be Category:Flags by year of adoption. The daughter categories would be Category:Flags adopted in foo. Flag of Honduras, for instance, would be added to Category:Flags adopted in 1866, along with Flag of Andorra. Any thoughts? A ecis Brievenbus 01:34, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a good idea. If we want to know about adoption dates for flags, we can either make a list or just link to a similar list FOTW has already. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think putting this in a list would be a good idea. There are so many flags, that a list would be unmaintainable and incomprehensible. Categorising it OTOH would allow us to present a large amount of information in an understandable way. A  ecis Brievenbus 12:28, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This is problematic. Information presented in this way would be extremely oversimplified. There are many cases where a single year of adoption would be not only hard to determine, but also fairly controversial. JPD (talk) 01:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * How many flags are adopted in a single year? I expect most categories would have few or no flags, at least for years prior to the 20th century.  I agree that a list or series of lists would be a better way to present this information. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:54, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a list online already with annotations and things like that, so unless we want to do this, it might not be a good idea. Main questions coming up would be what year do we put the US flag? The original adoption date or when the last modification took legal effect? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 02:08, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The entire idea sounds prone to OR and the bulk of such a list would be controversial. The list you hinted is a case in point;: Denmark is listed with "1625" for the year of adoption which is just completely bizarre. The oldest documented example of the Danish flag is from the 1370s, the oldest disputed example is from 1426 or 1427 and the legendary origin is 1219. Even 1208 has been suggested, but I've never seen any source in Denmark that was even remotely close to 1625. The entry for Norway ignores the 1814 flag. Sweden's "1569" seems very implausible as well and anyways ignores that the Swedes used a banner during the 1523 war with Denmark (the original flag destroyed in 1807) and the Swedish wikipedia mentions an example from the 1550s. The entry for the Faroe Islands states: "1948 recognized by Denmark", well, the Faroese flag was designed in 1919, a different flag was in use in the early 20th century, and common use definitely predates 1948. Just to name a few problems that jumped to mind. Valentinian T / C 14:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Image up for deletion
The image Image:Arms-richmond-lb.jpg has been tagged for deletion because the permissions for inclusion have not been formatted the way that our image sticklers would like. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll remove the template. The problem was that we have stated it is for fair use regarding this area, but was used in an template (which is a no-no). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I was the one who originally uploaded all those English and Welsh coats of arms under a fair use licence, but when that bot went through saying they were all to be deleted, I threw up my hands at the amount of work it would take to keep the bot happy. :/ Marnanel (talk) 14:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

List of autonomous areas by country is up as a Featured List!
The article, List of autonomous areas by country, is currently up for nomination as a Featured List at Featured list candidates/List of autonomous areas by country. If you have the time, please vote on the article so that it can be improved if necessarily or promoted if it deserves it. Thanks! Gary King (talk) 16:20, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Putumayo
I'm writing this here because nobody will ever see it if I write it on the talk page of the article. Flag of the Department of Putumayo says:


 * ''The superior black stripe symbolizes... The middle green stripe symbolizes... The inferior white stripe symbolizes...

Now it looks to me as though the colours are in the wrong order, either in the image or the description or both. Does anyone have any way of knowing one way or the other? I don't speak Spanish, unfortunately. Marnanel (talk) 14:41, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The image is correct; apparently, the external link in the article has it wrong. Have a look at the official departamento website (no Spanish required, you can see the flag image :) Fvasconcellos (t·c) 15:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I've fixed the article. -- Evertype·✆ 06:57, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

commons:Image talk:Coat of arms of Ireland.svg
Interesting source for the Coat of arms of Ireland. Visit if desirable. -- Imbris (talk) 22:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Rainman does this alot on the Commons with nearly all images related to arms and flags. It's more noise than actual progress. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 22:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Please comment at Flag of Singapore's ongoing peer review.
Flag of Singapore's most recent GA nomination was placed on hold on 19 December 2007. Unfortunately, the primary contributor, Jacklee, did not address the issues within the seven-day hold period, so the nomination was failed. We would like to get the article to GA status (and possibly even FA status, so it can be WikiProject Singapore's National Day main page FA); therefore, I filed a peer review, which was archived without receiving any feedback. Could members of this WikiProject comment at the article's ongoing peer review? --J.L.W.S. The Special One (talk) 14:33, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Interest SVG site
Using Internet Explorer, SVG files of blazons can be made at this site. Only simple stuff can be made, but I am sure it can be expanded. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 09:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

British Empire and the Union Jack?
Hello.

Can the Union Jack be used to represent the British Empire circa World War II? If not, is there a flag which can be? Oberiko (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)


 * From your comments elsewhere, I see that you are tlaking about Britain and colonies, excluding dominions such as Australia. In this case, the Union Jack is almost certainly an appropriate flag, although I will point out that the phrase "British Empire" may be confusing in that many readers could expect it to include Australia, etc. JPD (talk) 21:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Gibraltar
I have just moved the article about Gibraltar flags from 'Gibraltan Flags' as there is no such word in common usage. The correct term describing something 'of Gibraltar' is Gibraltar - apart from the people who are Gibraltarians however, the flag is of the territory rather than the people.

If someone can further tidy it up and remove that page sorting out any references etc. it would be appreciated. --Gibnews (talk) 11:50, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Old coat of arms drafts
Do you still have a need for the early proposed versions of your coat of arms that included elements copied or traced from the Wikipedia logo? I refer specifically to:
 * Image:Coat of arms of Wikiproject Heraldry.gif
 * Image:En-wikipedia arms.svg
 * Image:En-wikipedia arms 2.svg
 * Image:En-wikipedia arms 3.svg

I'm going through Category:CopyrightByWikimedia and I found these. —Random832 (contribs) 17:25, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The first image is at the Commons. I personally do not need the drafts anymore, but I suggest speaking to the uploader. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 19:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

List of British Empire flags
Is there a list (or need for a list) of historical British Empire flags? Regards Chwyatt (talk) 12:16, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Flag flying days in Norway
I have nominated Flag flying days in Norway as a Featured List. Any comments or opinions are appreciated. The nomination can be found here.Inge (talk) 14:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Flag of Canada is in WP:FAC
Flag of Canada is currently in WP:FAC and if anyone is interested in helping out with improving the article by copyediting, that would be great. Thanks! Gary King ( talk ) 03:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Scottish coat of arms
Do we (here a wikipedia) have a picture of the scottish coat of arms (as used today)!?! I have seen and  already. I would prefer one with out the supporters. Just the 'shield' so to speak! The English equivalent is. Thanks so much for any help! --Cameron (t|p|c) 14:21, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The question has been answered elsewhere..thanks anyway! --Cameron (t|p|c) 15:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Wessex coat of arms
Does anyone here have the Wessex coat of arms? The page about it does discribe the coat of arms...any talented heraldist out there, willing to take on this project? Thanks so much! --Cameron (t|p|c) 15:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Irish counties' coats of arms
I have created an article List of Irish counties' coats of arms using images which were here on the Wikipedia. Assistance in blazoning them would be greatly appreciated. -- Evertype·✆ 11:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Saxony with an inescutcheon of the United Kingdom
Can someone create an SVG form of arms (and on a lozenge) of Saxony with an inescutcheon of the United Kingdom? This would form the arms of Princes of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (with further British ancestry) as opposed to the reverse. Thanks! Charles 08:00, 27 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Replied at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject British Royalty. --Dr pda (talk) 11:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

List of largest flags
I wonder if someone can offer some help on reaching a consensus on this article (which personally I think should simply be deleted, but that's another issue).

The question is simply what constitutes a flag. Is an image of a flag painted on a hillside a flag for the purposes of that article?

Thanks for any help anyone can give.

Harry the Dog WOOF  16:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Animals in heraldry
Someone recently created a bunch of individual "X in heraldry" articles: boars in heraldry, bears in heraldry, wolves in heraldry, maybe some others. Do we need these? The lion, leopard and eagle have a lot of history and probably make sense as a standalone article, but couldn't we do a better job with charge (heraldry) first? Gimmetrow 21:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


 * This seems to be related to Heraldic creatures, which in principle is a nice idea, though I'm not sure if the selection of animals therein or the creation of "X in heraldry" articles are the best way to go about it. My first impression is that apart from a small number of charges like the lion or eagle, there's not much to say except "X was used as an charge. Examples of this are a,b,c", with the potential for an ever-increasing gallery of images. One could possibly make stronger articles by combining several of this type of article, perhaps using the categories from Heraldic creatures (or using the subheadings at charge (heraldry) or List of heraldic charges, which would then allow summary style!), e.g. Birds in heraldry rather than Eagle in heraldry, Martlet in heraldry, Pelican in heraldry etc. I agree that charge (heraldry) could use some work; illustrations would be nice! Dr pda (talk) 06:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm concerned that some of these articles appear to muddle coat of arms with crest, and are a bit heavy on the Meanings of the charge, by which I mean I wish they'd incorporate the caveat that there's no verifiable Meaning to most coats rather than linking to a site that tells you what a bend Means. —Tamfang (talk) 04:02, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Wolfsangel
Could someone please a look at the article Wolfsangel. This is a heraldic charge (wolfstrap) that is often confused with the cramp and apparently sometimes with the annille (I should look up that spelling) and mill rind. Currently that article is a shear mess. Of course this heraldic charge is pretty rare in English (or even French) heraldry, never less as we are on English language wikipedia the article should reflect English practice and not the less well developed German use. Anyone with German language skill might also want to take a look at the German language article (which while shorter is much better than hours) as well as the following article by a first rate German heraldist. I will of course help out with the article when I find the time, but I fear I already took on too much work with an Armorial I'm working on (running tally some 500 coats of arms of medieval Luxembourgish history).--Caranorn (talk) 21:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Another article of interest on this subject is Mauerhaken, of course again in German, it describes the cramp (or cramp iron) and nicely explains the confusion with the Wolfsangel and how to distinguish them.--Caranorn (talk) 21:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

The flag of Macedonia (Greece)
I will ask the editors on this portal to find some information on the flag of Macedonia (Greece). Who designed and enacted the flag and when? I can not find the flag on the website for the perifery Macedonia and Thrace. This flag seems is same as the old flag of the Republic of Macedonia from 1991-1995, just on a blue background. (Toci (talk) 18:27, 25 June 2008 (UTC))


 * It is available in Wikimedia Commons as Image:Flag of Greek Macedonia.svg. It appeared sometime around 1992 and displays the Vergina Sun, a star with 16-points. As many other flags, it is unofficial, althought the star is covered by international trademark registration. I believe there are no regulations about the flag's exact design and use.
 * Sv1xv (talk) 18:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)


 * In addition to my previous reply: There is evidence that the Flag of Macedonia was promoted by Kokkonis, a greek business dealing with flags, according to a book published by them. Reference: ). Possibly the flag itself was also designed by some member of the Kokkonis family.
 * BTW, the Vergina Sun (as a bagde and heraldic charge) is used by the greek government (See coat of arms and flag of 1st Army: http://www.army.gr/multimedia/emblimata/images/1h_stratia.jpg)
 * Sv1xv (talk) 15:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Changes to the WP:1.0 assessment scheme
As you may have heard, we at the Wikipedia 1.0 Editorial Team recently made some changes to the assessment scale, including the addition of a new level. The new description is available at WP:ASSESS.
 * The new C-Class represents articles that are beyond the basic Start-Class, but which need additional references or cleanup to meet the standards for B-Class.
 * The criteria for B-Class have been tightened up with the addition of a rubric, and are now more in line with the stricter standards already used at some projects.
 * A-Class article reviews will now need more than one person, as described here.

Each WikiProject should already have a new C-Class category at Category:C-Class_articles. If your project elects not to use the new level, you can simply delete your WikiProject's C-Class category and clarify any amendments on your project's assessment/discussion pages. The bot is already finding and listing C-Class articles.

Please leave a message with us if you have any queries regarding the introduction of the revised scheme. This scheme should allow the team to start producing offline selections for your project and the wider community within the next year. Thanks for using the Wikipedia 1.0 scheme! For the 1.0 Editorial Team, §hepBot  ( Disable )  21:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

In this coat of arms or flag, P symbolises Q, and X symbolises Y
All over Wikipedia, you see paragraphs like this one, at Pocklington:

The crown at the base of the shield is the emblem of the Saints, along with the gold cross, symbolises the town's historic connection with Paulinus and the Archbishop of York. The wheat sheaves note Pocklington's agricultural importance and the water lily the famous lily lakes at Burnby Hall Gardens.

Now there are some problems here. Firstly, these assertions are almost always given without citations. On a deeper level, there is a general misconception, I think, that a certain charge usually has a particular meaning-- that lions mean courage, say, or even that a noticeably blue coat of arms always means something about the original armiger. This is untrue. It may be true that a pelican, a self-sacrificing bird in mythology, is in someone's arms because the original armiger was noted for being particularly self-sacrificing; it could also be because the armiger had a particular devotion to the Atonement; it could also be because he liked pelicans. If you can't ask the herald who granted the arms, you can't know.

In Pocklington's case, the arms were only granted 28 years ago, so the people actually involved in the design (or some documents written by them) may survive to this day, but some of these fanciful interpretations concern arms which are hundreds of years old. Would it be a good plan to have a tag, like or something, to mark these with so that people are made to find reliable sources or delete them? Marnanel (talk) 16:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

CCNR
Hi, I was wondering if anyone knew anything regarding the background of the flag of the Central Commission for Navigation on the Rhine? It is rather similar to the EU flag but the Central Commission is from the 19th century. If anyone knows anything, it would be most welcome. Also, if anyone has anything on the Flag of the Western European Union, that would be helpful. These flags have little data on how they came about. Thanks.- J Logan t: 13:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Flag of Crete ?
This new flag appeared today in Wikimedia Commons. It is supposedy, a new version of the Flag of Crete. Does enybody have some information about its origin and/or use? Sv1xv (talk) 15:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Probably hoax or proposition. Not listed in FotW, but similar is here, with another canton. --Yopie 22:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Articles flagged for cleanup
Currently, 2216 articles are assigned to this project, of which 328, or 14.8%, are flagged for cleanup of some sort. (Data as of 2008-07-14.) Are you interested in finding out more? I am offering to generate cleanup to-do lists on a project or work group level. See User:B. Wolterding/Cleanup listings for details. Subscribing is easy - just add a template to your project page. If you want to respond to this canned message, please do so at my user talk page. --B. Wolterding (talk) 18:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Blazons
Ive been trying to expand articles on London Livery Companies by including a blazon of their arms from images on the company's websites, i'm quite good with it. If any one else would want to do the same it would be appreciated. Some of them I know aren't exact but it's quite hard just working it out from the images on their websites! Jet95 (talk) 18:57, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Canadian heraldry started
Hi all. I've started the Canadian heraldry page. Unfortunately, I've got few references to go on. Anyone with books (esp. Beddoes'), please come help! Prince of Canadat 13:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, I think I've got the article started. Two sections (at least) need to be added: institutional heraldry & unique Canadian elements--symbols, women as armigers, etc.  Could someone pls pop by and give some feedback?  Ta. Prince of Canadat 23:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Might want to add some content related to Cadency. Gimmetrow 00:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There aren't any citations for that, though, and Google isn't turning up anything useful... Do you have any leads? Prince of Canadat 00:15, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * No. I was actually wondering if the section in Cadency was accurate, and wanted to draw your attention to it. Gimmetrow 00:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems to be accurate per some site that cites nothing and is incredibly poorly written; seems not very reliable. Neither the CHA site nor the RSHC site have anything. Prince of Canadat 00:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The RHSC site does actually list them: http://education.heraldry.ca/course_canadian.htm. You might also find some other useful resources at http://education.heraldry.ca/course_texts.htm. Dr pda (talk) 10:18, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Ta. Someone needs to educate the RHSC on good web design and how to convey information. Prince of Canadat 14:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Another COA infobox
Hi all. I've been fiddling here with a different version of the COA infobox; this one fits better into the body of an article, I think. I'd like to start using these (to begin with) across all relevant pages under WP:BRoy in order to standardize proper blazonry etc when discussing the article subject's arms. I've posted over there, too.. what do you all think? Prince of Canadat 18:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Edited to add an example right here.


 * I'd change are those of to is, and omit the blazon and explanation of the Royal Arms itself. —Tamfang (talk) 05:52, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's just an example... the template doesn't contain any of that language. I think it probably still looks like that on Anne's page; perhaps you could change it? I don't touch those pages anymore. // roux    05:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I think an obvious thing missing from these "infoboxes" is the date of the grant. Opera hat (talk) 14:07, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

MfD
There is an MfD here requesting deletion of WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology flags. -- Suntag  ☼  04:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia 0.7 articles have been selected for Heraldry and vexillology
Wikipedia 0.7 is a collection of English Wikipedia articles due to be released on DVD, and available for free download, later this year. The Version 1.0 Editorial Team has made an automated selection of articles for Version 0.7.

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Flag of the Republic of China
I want to make this an FA again, anyone want to join me? User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 21:11, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

CoA - Northwest Territories
Could someone please blazon the Coat of arms of Northwest Territories for me? I'm pretty certain I will get it monumentally wrong. Prince of Canadat 04:02, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * heraldry.ca has a blazon which looks like the work of a professional, so it is likely to be the official one, see: http://www.heraldry.ca/misc/arms_provinces.htm#NWT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.89.16.138 (talk) 00:03, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Flag of a militant group
Please, if someone can create this flag in .svg in PD. It's needed for the articles Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan and Iran–Party for a Free Life in Kurdistan conflict. Thanks in advance, -- TheFE ARgod (Ч) 14:12, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

"Flag of Islam"?
I'm concerned about the trend of using a historical flag of the Islamic Caliphate as a symbol of present-day Islamic extremists. There are three reasons: Now, if it turns out to be a fact that, e.g., al-Qaeda has adopted this flag as a symbol, well and good. But so far this is only assumed.
 * 1) I'm finding no reliable evidence that this flag is actually used by the extremist groups.
 * 2) Associating a symbol with many different Islamic groups on Wikipedia implies that they are identical.
 * 3) It implies a monolithic "Islamic world" with no significant historical change.

I've inquired about this at Talk:Jihad and gotten no usable info yet. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 22:47, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Vancouver CoA component - "Kwaikutl totem pole"
This isn't a wikipedia issue, bgut it is a heraldic issue, given teh strictures placed on teh use and design of escutcheons and coats of arms. I noted in the blazon of Vancouver's escutcheon the following:
 * ''Barry wavy of eight azure and argent on a chief or between two dogwood flowers proper a pile vert charged with a Kwakiutl totem pole proper...

...and gave paused to wonder if the College of Heralds, and/or the City of Vancouver, had obtained permission from the owner(s) of the crest designs on teh totem pole design in question, and also of the totem pole itself if it is a depiction of an actual pole. These are legal property within indigenous cultures, and are now recognized also as a result of various court decisions to be part of Common Law in Canada (traditional laws of all kinds were recognized as such because of the Supreme Court appeal of Delgamuukw vs. the Queen. I brought this here rather than to the VAncouver project because it raises a further issue - whether the heraldic crests of teh Pacific Northwest nobility and clans fall under this WikiProject; the "new" national flags of various indigenous nations do; why shouldn't their traditional systems of emblems.  But again, I'd also like to know if either the Cowichan Herald Extraordinary (I think that's the local pooh-bah's name), the College of Heralds, or the City of Vancouver officials, commissioned the "Kwakiutl" totem pole in question, and what the crest rights connected with it may be, and whether or not they were ignored at the time (which as it was 1969 when the crest was granted is quite likely). Just curious, but perhaps there are indeed some more important issues here than meets the eye. I can't see the pole in any detail and, while htey're not mentioned in teh blazon, the crests/animals depicted should probably be mentioned. "Kwakiutl" is now an obsolete adn somewhat un-p.c. term, though still used by the band at Fort Rupert and also by the Southern Kwakiutl around Campbell River; all others in teh same ethnolinguistic group prefer the term "Kwakwaka'wakw" and consider it a "white man's mistake" (even though rival/cousin kin still use it).Skookum1 (talk) 19:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Unless/until these concerns are reported in reliable sources, it's not something we can or should worry about. Also, as far as the Herald Extraordinary goes, all Canadian Heralds have titles derived from rivers, and all Canadian heralds are responsible for the entire country, not specific locations. My personal opinion is that First Nations and Aboriginal people have taken to using native symbols in heraldry with great enthusiasm. Plus, when FN symbols are used, especially recently (as in the badges of the Canadian heralds), they are used with respect and honour, permanently enshrining native symbolism in the official symbolic language of the country, and putting those symbols on an equal footing with historically European symbols. [ roux  ] [ x ] 19:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Origin of the coats of arms of Germany and its federal states
This article is even longer than what its title leads us to expect, while many of the entries for the coat of arms of each individual German state are unreferenced stubs. - A split has been suggested at the article's talk page. You may be interested in taking a look at that possibility. :-)

I left an identical message at the WikiProject Germany. - Best regards, Ev (talk) 19:38, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Help with a specific translation
Hello. I have a passion for heraldry and (let's be honest ^^) my English is not too bad. However, since heraldry language is very specific, it's not sufficient for me to be able to translate from the French heraldic language to the English one. I was wondering if you could help me with one specific blazon :



In french, I think it would be described like that : Mantelé au premier de sable à une croix clêchée vidée pommetée de douze pièces d'or emplie d'azur, au second d'azur à une colombe fondante d'argent tenant en son bec une fleur de lys du même, un étai d'or brochant sur la partition et la croix

Is there any kind person that speaks fluent "blazonish", that could help me ? :D

Still, I think I should give some precisions : the cross can't be described as a 'Toulouse' one since the inner background is not gules but azure. Also, the or ordinary is a chevronnel, not a simple chevron.

be thanked in advance ! --Syryatsu (talk) 12:56, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd make it Sable a cross clechy pometty or voided azure, overall on a point pointed azure fimbriated or a dove descending bearing in its beak a fleur-de-lys all argent. – What are the supporters? —Tamfang (talk) 05:33, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think they're savacous: boat-billed herons. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  18:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

shield identification
Image:-RepublicSrbska.jpg is somehow related to Serbia, but this is not the national shield. Can anyone identify it? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 17:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's labeled as an alternative variant of the logo of the Scouting Association of the Serbian Republic; see Savjet izviđačkih organizacija u Bosni i Hercegovini. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 18:01, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but what is the shield inside from? It doesn't match any Wiki article I can find. Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 01:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I doubt it's 'from' anything: it looks typical of the shields used by small institutions where no-one knows anything about real heraldic design. —Tamfang (talk) 05:48, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Featured list removal candidates/Flag flying days in Mexico
Flag flying days in Mexico has been nominated for a featured list removal. Lists are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the lst to featured quality. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Reviewers' concerns are here. --  SRE.K.A nnoyomous .L. 24 [c] 21:56, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Use of Infobox flag
I would like clarifcation on the use of the above, because I feel it's a great help on pages like Flag of Russia but it not used on all flag pages, even national ones. I personally would like it to be used for current civil and state flags on national and first-level sub-national flags (e.g. counties in the UK, states in the US, laender). I find it very useful, particularly to non-vexillogists just looking up the facts of one particular flag. It could also be expanded on many pages which it's used. Jarry1250 (talk) 09:11, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally feel the infobox should only be used for the flag that is the main focus of the article. In the case of the flag of Russia, only the state flag should be used for the infobox. If yall decide to write about the Andreyevsky flag on it's own article, then an infobox should be used there. I seen someone tried to use an infobox at the Red Ensign of Singapore and it looked pretty weird with the current setup of the template. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:29, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

British Solomon Islands
There is a question on the Humanities Reference Desk about a flag for that place from 1970 to 1976. I poked around here and at Wikimedia, and no dice. Can someone here please set us straight or find a flag? --Milkbreath (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2008 (UTC)