Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology/Archive 2016

Request for comments on Star (heraldry)
I proposed a content split a couple years ago after a lot of vexillological content was added to the star (heraldry) article, but there has been no commentary offered yet in the interim. Please have a look, and leave a comment about whether you think a split is warranted at Talk:Star_(heraldry). Please comment there rather than here to keep the discussion in one place. Thank you. Wilhelm Meis (&#9742; Diskuss &#124; &#x270D; Beiträge) 03:25, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Flag of Easter Island
The page Flag of Easter Island includes an image of an historical flag and states that this was in use in the 13th century, this seems very early and I'm not sure if this sort of flag use was common outside Europe at the time. The source given is World Atlas. Does anyone know if this 13th century date is accurate? -- Boreas74  You'll catch more flies with honey 16:26, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

edit warring
There is a load of edit warring going on at Thomas Woodcock (officer of arms) and John Michael Allen-Petrie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.52.138.2 (talk) 02:57, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have pinged all of the involved editors on the articles' talk pages to notify them of this section and also to ask that they come to a compromise. I have also added both articles to my watchlist. — Jkudlick • t • c • s 12:40, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Information on this coat of arms of The Count of Monte Cristo (by Alexandre Dumas)
Hi. We received on OTRS some questions about : why a mountain, a crown, 9 pearls, etc. If you know some information, feel free to answer on the talk page. Thanks a lot! Zetud (talk) 17:51, 23 January 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅ — Jkudlick • t • c • s 17:57, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Question: how does 'Template:Coat of arms' work? missing from documentation
Greetings, At Coat of arms documentation it does not explain how the COA that displays is linked into the template. I see no File parameter & am wondering how it works? Regards, JoeHebda   (talk)  16:00, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * It works by using a coded switch. The subject's name is compared to the list of subjects coded into the template, and the appropriate image is displayed. — Jkudlick • t • c • s 16:49, 28 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I updated the doc to clarify, and added some COA templates for the SA section. Regards, JoeHebda   (talk)  18:47, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Notice
There is currently a discussion taking place at Articles for deletion/Flag of South Africa (1928–1994) - the WOLF  child  21:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

RfC on the coat of arms of Canada
There is at Talk:Monarchy of Canada an ongoing RfC on what arms or versions of arms are appropriate to represent the monarch of Canada. Input from those with a knowledge of heraldry would be appreciated. -- ₪   MIESIANIACAL  22:58, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

SSR flags
Hey, I'm not sure if this subject was brought forward before but I really need to get someone's opinion on it. The flags of the Republics of the Soviet Union all have their own pages but most, if not all, are stubs with little or no citations. While there might be a chance to improve these pages, I really feel they should be deleted and the SSR flags of the Republics moved to the pages of their respective successor states (some of which are already done). So, the flag of the Flag of the Kazakh Soviet Socialist Republic has its own section in the Flag of Kazakhstan page. ProjectHorizons (talk) 02:54, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Coat of arms copyright
I'm not sure my issue falls within this WikiProject's area of expertise, but I assume copyright of coats of arms and of modern logos based on coats of arms must have come up before. Please comment at Media copyright questions for a discussion on the copyright of university logos based on coats of arms. Huon (talk) 21:04, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

North Korean navy flag
Please provide input at Template talk:Country data North Korea. --Izno (talk) 16:08, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Should the Flag of Northern Ireland article say at the start there is currently no national flag for Northern Ireland
At Talk:Flag of Northern Ireland. Dmcq (talk) 11:47, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Pop de Negrești
Does anybody have information about this noble family? The article does not seem to verify its notability. The noble status itself could not show the Pops notability, because 5% of the Hungarian were nobles from the 16th century. Borsoka (talk) 18:29, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Qustions and terms to discuss

 * Definision of "Clan" and how to apply
 * Definision of "Heraldic Clan" and how to apply
 * Definision of "House of XXX" and when it is possible to apply


 * Subquestion of correct terms in Polish: "Rod herbowy" czy "Rod heraldyczny? - both are correct and are just synonym's

When to apply terms and what term is correct

 * Definition of "House of XXX" - require that all members of the House origin from same family and use same surname and is of noble origin. In case of Odrowąż family it is "House of Odrowąż" since all members use same surname and all are blood related, all have common male ancestor and all are of noble origin. This is a case in Odrowąż in 13th century. In case of Ostoja it is not possible since its not one family but several different. Therefore not possible to apply "House of Ostoja", there is no "Dom Ostoja". In case of Ostoja its Clan from start.


 * Definition of Clan - In 14th and 15th century, noble families started to use surname that refer to their property. Therefore, Odrowąż in protperty of Baranowo would call himself Baranowski. At the end of 15th century, House of Odrowąż (same in Ostoja) will therefore consist of maybe 100 different family names - all same family. It could be possible to write Jan Baranowski of the "House of Odrowąż" but there was no such practice - instead, in document there is pl. "Baranowski de Baranowo". If families in the clan is genealogically blood related and have same ancestor but different names, its "Clan"


 * "Heraldic Clan" - same for all the clans - a clan where clan members are not blood related to each other, not having common ancestrors. There are, like in Rola, clan inside heraldic clan, where several families of same clan show kinship. camdan (talk) 18, 10 August 2016 (UTC)


 * AFAIK this WikiProject is for general issues of heraldry, and you should have posted it at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poland. Anyway, it makes no sense to move the talk once more, I will just post a link from there to here (and from some relevant Polish articles). Staszek Lem (talk) 18:54, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank You Staszek Lem for Your kind help. I posted here as for suggestion from Piotrus.camdan (talk) 20:46, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Assuming the discussion at Talk:Heraldic family will end in consensus, we will have to follow WP:CFD procedure and remane Category:Polish heraldic families to Category:Polish heraldic clans. And we may also need to discuss Category:Polish noble families. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:24, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Is this project active?
All the replies to recent threads seem to come from few editors involved in WP:POLAND who came here due to the recent thread. Is there any member of this project who would object to marking this WP as historical/inactive? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 05:55, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

A puzzle for you
While working with the Disambiguation pages with links project, I've run across a conundrum that I thought you folks might be able to help with. Three articles, Hungarian heraldry, Coat of arms of Slovakia, and Coat of arms of Hungary, all refer to a three-humped symbol that represents three mountain ranges in the region: the Tátra, Mátra and Fátra. The problem is that we have two articles for the Fatra mountains, since nowadays they're divided into two ranges: Veľká Fatra and Malá Fatra. So each of the three articles actually links to the disambiguation page, Fatra. How can this be disambiguated?

I came up with two possible solutions, neither of which seem very satisfactory. One was to add a brief explanation in each article, something like: This symbol stands for the mountain ranges Tátra, Mátra and Fátra (made up of the Veľká Fatra and Malá Fatra ranges). This seems pretty clunky, but works. The other idea was to write some sort of short article like Fatra Mountains (heraldry) that would be about the historic and symbolic mountain range, and link to that. I have no idea whether or not this would be feasible or even desirable (notability questions come to mind).

Any ideas or thoughts? — Gorthian (talk) 18:12, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * I would go with the former option. There's nothing wrong in explicitly mentioning the two Fatras in the heraldry articles and it's probably better that starting a stub (in addition to the disambiguation page) that may never be expanded. — Kpalion(talk) 20:03, 17 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Kpalion, I will do that. Thank you. — Gorthian (talk) 17:01, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Duke of Avezzano
FYI, in Talk:Duke of Avezzano there is a suggestion by User:Marica Massaro of possible issue with the article's content.--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:20, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank Alex. Delete this page: it is not true and reliable, thanks --Marica Massaro (talk) 16:26, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Spelling of project name
I just wanted to let you know that this is wrong. I just wondering nobody see this. Either both terms (heraldry and vexillology) are small or capitalized. Greetings  → User: Perhelion 15:58, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Anyway, could someone help/support to merge the WikiProjects Heraldry and Vexillology on Commons?  → User: Perhelion 16:07, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

Military awards and decorations?
A few years ago I began a project to improve the images associated with military awards and decorations (mostly ensuring that images exist, they are in .SVG or .PNG formats, and they appear as though they follow a similar design philosophy). This project is something I will tend to whenever I have time, and I was looking to possibly work with one or two other individuals in order to keep the project on track. Would this WikiProject be the best place to seek help, or would I be better off at the Military History WikiProject? Evan.oltmanns (talk) 13:34, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I think I found a partial answer; WikiProject Orders, decorations, and medals exists, though it seems like the activity is low.Evan.oltmanns (talk) 13:39, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Are coat of arms articles to be considered key articles?
Please come and say your opinion at Wikipedia talk:Glossary. Snowsuit Wearer (talk&#124;contribs) 12:41, 10 December 2016 (UTC)