Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Archive 4

Need List of Volunteer Neutral Editors here???
Per the above and my own recent experiences trying to find help for problems, I was wondering if it would be helpful to have a front page section listing volunteer neutral editors who want to help and then for us to go out and get some?? It would make it less haphazard trying to find editors neutral on and willing/unafraid to deal with the topic. And if there were complaints they were just overboard biased, we could remove them. (Of course, that whole process in itself might make doing this difficult.) After 1.5 years of active editing, it took me rewriting these pages and looking at or trying the variety of dispute resolution resources I had not yet tried to get a better picture of how to deal with issues. I find that sometimes you get good advice, sometimes none, sometimes POV viewpoints that reek of canvassing and tag teaming, and there's the problem I'm having with at least one, maybe two, editors following me around saying negative things to sabotage my requests for help. Having a neutral editor easily available would help with all those problems! CarolMooreDC (talk) 19:15, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Questions on "Citing and reporting incidents" section just added
First, I'm hoping more people will come back here once holidays really over next week. ;-) Plus more problems should be arising related to 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict‎ and related changes across various articles. Second, see my proposal on Reorganizing IPCOLL statistics to basically list just an analysis of actual  [[Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Log_of_notifications and ARBPIA. Third, I just moved WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration back to main page as a separate section but have a few questions of things I don't understand that should be made clear/corrected. But I think we need some examples of what raises to that level, as opposed to the other places to report mentioned in the next paragraph. (Incivility, sockpuppets, etc.) (Looking at the Warnings and Blocks helpful and if there's an analysis page, that might help explain.)
 * I am unclear on difference between citing and reporting. Citing means mentioning past Arbitration issue on talk page of article one is editing, like "User:PartisanPest has been blocked twice of disruptive editing."??? Where as reporting evidently means to Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement.
 * I am confused on when an editors pattern of disruptive edits on one or a series of articles becomes a behavioral pattern that should be reported as that and what would be the policy to quote. I think that needs explicit explanation.
 * This issue is partially raised by this current sentence: When criticising particular edits, comment on the content and not identity of the contributor. Aside from the fact that attempting to challenge a particular argument by challenging the person who offered the argument constitutes a logical fallacy, it is likely to be a violation of WP:NPA.
 * To Do not make allegations of harassment (including stalking) unless you have fairly strong proof of such I'd like to add specific example, like: for example, his/her following you to at least __ pages they have not edited previously to delete your edits or to follow you to various help pages to comment on your attempts to seek advice or help. Or whatever people think is most relevant.
 * Is there a wiki page to point to that already details how to do this? Couldn't find one and there should be one. CarolMooreDC (talk) 18:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Flagged Revisions Discussion and BLP articles feeler
I finally figured out what WP:flagged revisions are and oppose them because I can imagine a POV clique taking over I-P articles. Share your opinion here Wikipedia talk:Flagged revisions/Trial Also on what to do about BLP's with flagged revisions one option here: Protecting_BLP_articles_feeler_survey CarolMooreDC (talk) 21:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


 * From my experience with this in our sister project, I can assure you that there's no reason to be afraid of that. They are quibbling over it a lot, but I haven't seen anybody who raised any concern like this. &mdash; Sebastian 02:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

RfC on Arbitration Enforcement
Obviously this could be relevant to this project and people might want to comment. Requests_for_comment/Arbitration_enforcement. Runs til Feb 21. If people want to run their own thoughts by here, first, feel free. I might later. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:01, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

RfC on Checkusers
Requests for comment/Community expectation of Checkuser Considering there are checkusers with strong POVs on both sides of the issue, this is quite relevant. In fact I opined that people who edit a lot on this issue should not be checkusers at all. One of the issues is a Board to hear complaints, which I think may have arisen as a proposal because of complaints about at least one of the check users. It makes one question whole process. (Of course there is wikiscanners Poor Man's Check User but it's not very good, at this point anyway, and certainly not "official."} CarolMooreDC (talk) 16:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Project barnstar?
What do people think about having a barnstar that can be awarded by the project? (I'm thinking of something like the .) I just came across this message by user talk:JGGardiner, which was well received. How about an award for him? &mdash; Sebastian 18:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Draft guidelines for placename usage
Draft guidelines have been moved to WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Placename guidelines, and related discussion to its talk page. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 21:06, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Any objections to removing these two pages from IPCOLL?
From the "to do" list above: Article methods and Article workshop [see correction below] which haven't been used, at least until they are made more workable and/or used CarolMooreDC (talk) 13:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)


 * No problem in leaving them. It might inspire usage.--Cerejota (talk) 00:52, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me!!! :-) --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 19:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Guess what, I miss copied from the To Do list! Those were up for discussion and I really hadn't thought about them myself. These were two I meant to put up:
 * IPCOLL/INVITE because there is a short invite note in the main text now
 *  Jerusalem as capital purpose not clear and never worked on.
 * Must check my edits more carefully before I save.CarolMooreDC (talk) 20:23, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's been up for 6 weeks now with no objections so I put speedy delete tags on both articles directly aboveand if neither passes muster will AfD it. CarolMooreDC (talk) 12:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * FYI they were speedily deleted. CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Hope to meet you at the Wikipedia conference at University of Tel Aviv
May 3

Details here

Ravpapa


 * What percentage of discussion is about editing English wikipedia on Israel Palestine issues?? CarolMooreDC (talk) 17:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Decide for yourself. Here is a translation of the schedule for the conference:

12:30 - 13:15 Reception

13:15 - 14:00 Opening session:


 * Prof. Niv Ahitov, academic director of Netvision Institute for Internet Research, Tel Aviv University
 * Shay Yakir, Director, Wikimedia Israel
 * Sue Gardener, Director, Wikimedia Foundation

14:00 - 15:45 Wikipedia and Wiki technology in Education and in Universities


 * Writing for Wikipedia as an academic assignment: Ofer Eitan, Political Science, Bar Ilan University
 * "Making history": collaborative learning by Jews and Arabs in the Wiki environment. Sara Pollack, School of Education, Hebrew University in Jerusalem
 * Collaborative learning in the Wiki environment. Dr. Danny Ben-Zvi, Advanced Techonolgies in Education, University of Haifa
 * Controversial writing and digital slander in the Wikipedia and elsewhere on the net. Dror Kamir, Wikipedia; Eli Hacohen, Netvision Institute for Internet Research, University of Tel Aviv

15:45 - 16:15 Coffee break

16:15 - 17:45 The character of the Wikipedia


 * Reliability and newtrality in Wikipedia writing. Shiri Magen, University of Haifa; Etty Yaari, Bar Ilan University; David Shay, Wikipedia administrator; Dr. Emmanuel Lotem, scientific editor of ynet encyclopedia
 * Wikipedia, communication and privacy. Prof. Niv Ahitov, Netvision Institute; Gadi Shimshon, publisher of blogs; Itzik Edry, spokesman of Wikimedia Israel

17:45 - 19:30 Free content in the Wikipedia and on the net


 * Open content, free content and copyright. Spokesmen from Creative Commons of Israel
 * Law, state and free content. Zvi Dvir, Wikitext; Roy Peled, the movement for freedom of information; Attorney Amit Ashkenazi, Ministry of Justice
 * Conservation initiatives and and accessability to open content. Asaf Bartov, Ben-Yehuda project; representative of "Zemereshet"; representative of "Piki-Wiki"

--Ravpapa (talk) 05:34, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, Rav, there's the difference between Wikipedia and academia. In the latter, most conferences are organized around eating, drinking and extensive occasions for gossiping!Nishidani (talk) 06:59, 23 April 2009 (UTC)


 * So how was this? This Haaretz article has had a couple of mentions on article talk pages - one via a semi-digested version supplied on an Honest Reporting-related page. It reads as if HaCohen was bullshitting and that some of his editing here may have been bad faith. But I don't know whether he is misrepresented.--Peter cohen (talk) 10:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yup, what Mr Hacohen did is what he has done. Who he might be is a whole different question, and I for one, will respect the difference, unless of course, I see a similar pattern spread here.  He deserves the ability for anonymity, as I do.  Who we are is an invalid wiki-question; how we edit is the only righteous wiki-question others may ask. However, how the questions are asked and answered is equally relevant. Regards, CasualObserver&#39;48 (talk) 15:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The use of images in IP conflic articles
There is a discussion on the use of images in articles on the Israel-Palestine conflict at Talk:Qassam rocket that might interest editors. --Ravpapa (talk) 16:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality enforcement on I/P articles: a proposal
Neutrality enforcement: this may be of interest to people here. SlimVirgin talk| contribs 23:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Links to reliable sources discussions
Unless I was totally senile back in July 2008 there was not search box at the Reliable sources noticeboard. Either way, I just noticed it today, as I was going through updating the listing at the page. I don't mind continuing to do it a) because it makes me keep up on WP:RS discussions, if often belately and b) because it's a good overall list of different sources (including new ones for some people) and issues for people too look into. Any thoughts? CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Progress of resolution of naming issue for placenames in Israel and Palestine
In relation to remedy 13.1 of Requests for arbitration/West Bank - Judea and Samaria, I have requested an update on progress at:

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Placename_guidelines

for the proposed guidelines currently located at:

WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Placename guidelines. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:50, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Do we want to get rid of old user banner?
The one that only says "This user participates in WP:IPCOLL" and leave the new one that says "This user participates in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration."??? CarolMooreDC (talk) 00:27, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

I could substitute the new one for the old one if no one objects. That way no one has to change anything on their user page. We can still keep the old one in case anyone changes their mind.

User WP IPCOLL

User WP IPCOLL 2

--Timeshifter (talk) 02:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I like the new one. I agree with you: if nobody objects, I think we should replace the old one with the new one. — Malik Shabazz 04:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The new version looks better. I think you should go ahead and replace the old one. PhilKnight (talk) 21:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * CarolMooreDC made it the main banner on the project page: WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration --Timeshifter (talk) 22:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Me likes.--Cerejota (talk) 04:42, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

How I am voting on the 2009 WMF Board Foundation
For lack of a better project page for this: User_talk:Cerejota--Cerejota (talk) 04:41, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

A welcome message for IPCOLL?
Over the months I've done a few user talk messages such as that at the ones at the start of User_talk:Jim_Fitzgerald and. I wonder whether having a project policy to try and post a tailored welcome message to people showing an interest in the I/P area would be useful. Often first contacts with new editors are hostile messages from supporters of the other side of the conflict. --Peter cohen (talk) 14:44, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. CarolMooreDC (talk) 06:40, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Library
I have a fairly extensive library which I am beginning to try to catalog. Much is still in boxes in my attic but... I have started to put the list on my user page. If anyone would like me to check any of the pages in any of the books listed, or look anything up, I would be more than happy to do so. While the books clearly lean to one "side," I would be happy to research for either view. Facts is facts. Feel free to leave any queries on my talk page. Thanks. Stellarkid (talk) 19:36, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Neutral Editors
You have a section on Dispute Resolution on the project page, where you suggest going to a neutral editor. Obviously most of the editors as part of this project would not be neutral. However is there a list of neutral editors (agreed by both sides of this conflict to be neutral?) where we could go for a second opinion? If not, that would certainly be a good project to embark on. Stellarkid (talk) 16:56, 28 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Good point. Finding editors to look at just about anything is getting more and more difficult these days!! It's actually easier to get editors to look at these topics, but as you note they tend to be biased. Though at least they have some familiarity with the subject matter! WP:Dispute resolution linked on the page does list a bunch of places where you can find neutral editors - getting them to come by and actually comment is the hard part - a solution to which Our Leaders are seeking solutions! :-) CarolMooreDC (talk) 15:52, 2 October 2009 (UTC)