Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/August 2010

Ryukyuan Shinto -> Ryukyuan religion
Wanna talk about moving this back (officially)...I think the word "Shinto" is restrictive and misleading. DaAnHo (talk) 07:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Mori Ranmaru
This article is desperately in need of a definitive reference on the nature of the relationship between Mori Ranmaru and Oda Nobunaga. Unfortunately, every English-language history of Nobunaga I've read tends to elide the relationship almost completely rather than address explaining it to a Western audience, and I don't read Japanese well enough to have confidence in my ability to do serious historical research in that language. Does anyone have good source for this? — Gavia immer (talk) 17:57, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Translation help
I am trying hard, but cannot make sense of the following two sentences which are needed for this list:

細川藤孝（幽斎）は、関ヶ原の戦で徳川方に属し、丹後田辺城において、６０日にわたって西軍を引きつけて籠城 した. その際に、石田三成方の兵が城を取り囲むなかで、藤孝から古今伝授の奥義を受けた烏丸光広に贈られた太刀とされ、昭和になって再び細川家の所有する ところとなった. (source)

Basically, what I would like to know is what the origin (or meaning) of the sword's meibutsu (Kokin Denju no Tachi (古今伝授の太刀) is. An exact translation is therefore not necessary.

Some proper names that occur in the sentences are: Hosokawa Fujitaka, Battle of Sekigahara, Siege of Tanabe, Ishida Mitsunari, Karasumaru Mitsuhiro. bamse (talk) 21:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you want to know.古今伝授の太刀 means the tachi 烏丸光広 received when he was initiated the "kokin denju", the secrets of Kokin Wakashū. As for 古今伝授, see  the fourth paragraph. Oda Mari (talk) 05:23, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * That's already quite useful, thanks. If I understand correctly, Hosokawa Fujitaka initiated 烏丸光広 in the "kokin denju". I am still confused about the battle part and where the various persons were located during the battle. bamse (talk) 09:59, 5 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The literal translation of the above sentence is as follows:
 * "Hosokawa Fujitaka who later joined the Tokugawa side at the Battle of Sekigahara was besieged in the Tanabe castle by the Western Army for 60 days. At that time, besieged by the Ishida Mitsunari side, the sword was presented to Karasumaru Mitsuhiro when Hosokawa Fujitaka initiated him into the "kokin denju". Later in Showa era, the sword became to belong to the Hosokawa family again." ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:05, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. I got a bit confused about all the different sides and battles. So Karasumaru Mitsuhiro and Hosokawa Fujitaka were both inside Tanabe castle during the siege!? bamse (talk) 11:36, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Karasumaru Mitsuhiro was sent to Tanabe castle for seeking the pacification of the battle as an Imperial envoy by Emperor Go-Yōzei. So he was neither side of the battle. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 12:02, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Japanese corporate titles
Help from anyone with a more versatile keyboard than mine, with the original Japanese, would be appreciated. ISBN 9781873410127 pp. 81 seems to be as good a source as any, should you need it. Uncle G (talk) 00:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * This page may be a good source ja:役員 (会社). It lists the legal and unofficial corporate titles and also refers to the titles used in North America, France and Germany, as well as China, Hong Kong and Taiwan. For government posts, see ja:役職. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 06:27, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Madara (Japanese myth)
Found and tagged, please help cleanup.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 09:36, 6 August 2010 (UTC)


 * I am not sure but isn't this a hoax? It seems to be derived from Madara (manga) or List of Naruto antagonists. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:30, 6 August 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no article for it on the Japanese wiki. The books referenced in the article do seem to exist, but whether or not the text in the article is attributable to them is another story. This article seems somewhat dubious. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 12:13, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Yep, sounds awfully dubious to me. Notice also that the main author of the article only has contributions to Naruto related articles. If this was a VfD I'd vote "delete". TomorrowTime (talk) 13:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I asked for AfD. Oda Mari (talk) 06:01, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Romanization confusion
How would "エラクゥス" be romanized? For background, it is the Japanese spelling of the name "Eraqus".24.13.125.86 (talk) 05:09, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "Erakusu" or "Erakuusu". ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 07:07, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I would macronize the first u.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 12:45, 8 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, "Erakūsu" would be correct. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 16:29, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Article Incubator/Government by assassination
お疲れさまです! I just created this stub, I have been looking (and forgive me if this topic is specifically covered by another article. The concept itself fascinates me, but I don't know enough to write well on it. Can any of you help? 有難うございます! --Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 12:44, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Ministry of the Military (Ritsuryō)
This was improperly cut-and-paste moved to this strange unWiki name, anyway we can move it back and preserve the edit histories?--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 16:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Copied and pasted from where? ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 03:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, Hyōbu-shō, I knew I forgot something, ごめん.--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 03:33, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Now at the correct title: Ministry of the Military. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 04:03, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Kutsukake Tokijirō
Kutsukake Tokijirō article has been proposed for deletion because of "doesn't prove notability". There is 70 000 webpages on this theme, but if not notable, then it should be changed to disambig page. Keep article or keep disambig? --Snek01 (talk) 17:08, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Being listed on websites isn't enough to prove notability; you need reliable sources like published books or magazines or something. It might be possible to save the article, but you'd need to find a bunch of sources about the character. I found a few books relating to him, but they seem to be more about one of the films. I would say use the Japanese version of the article, but it's not much better. Maybe you can expand a bit more on the character? —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 19:44, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears that the various films are just adaptations of a single play. My suggestion would be to write an article on the play, which can have a discussion of the character in it. In turn, if you can find sources for the assertion that this play was filmed seven times, it would easily pass the notability barrier. — Gavia immer (talk) 19:51, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * A serial manga version in a biweekly magazine イブニング from Kodansha started on March, 2010. See the bottom right. Oda Mari (talk) 07:18, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Convenience store Shisa in Isigaki island Japan.jpg
御疲れ様です! Can any of you more familiar than I am take a look at this? It just seems like copyright paranoia to me, and I would prefer someone knowledgeable to weigh in. 有難うね!--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 07:24, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

dubious file
The photo caption is below.

『アサヒグラフ支那戦線写真』第二四報（昭和一三年一月五日第三〇巻第一号）に掲載された写真　提供＝朝日新聞社 「避難区に潜入していた敗残兵（12月17日河村特派員撮影）」と説明されている写真. （「敗残兵」とあるが服装から見て警察官かも知れない. 安全区国際委員会には市当局から450人の警察官が移管されていたが、大半は西大門外で屠殺されたという）

However, the file name is Chinese policemen to be killed, Nanking massacre.jpg. The file Description is ''English: About 450 Chinese policemen working in Nanking Safety Zone were sent out of the city under escort of Japanese troops. Most of them were killed out of the west gate of the city. The file source is 支那战线写真,第24报, published on 1938-1-5. from 洞富雄，《南京大虐杀》''

It's nonsense. The original caption is The remnants of a defeated troop who were in hiding in evacuation zone.(photo by correspondent Kawamura on December 17) 避難区に潜入していた敗残兵（12月17日河村特派員撮影） by Asahi graph China front pictures 24th (First, volume 30, January 5, 1938)『アサヒグラフ支那戦線写真』第二四報（昭和一三年一月五日第三〇巻第一号）

The below comment was writen by Tou Tomio(洞富雄). (The caption is "The remnants of a defeated troop", however they might have been policemen by their clothes. 450 policemen were placed under the authority of International Commitee of Safty Zone from the city authorities. Most of them were allegedly killed out of the great west gate.)（「敗残兵」とあるが服装から見て警察官かも知れない. 安全区国際委員会には市当局から450人の警察官が移管されていたが、大半は西大門外で屠殺されたという）

The original text is The remnants of a defeated troop who were in hiding in evacuation zone. The policemen killing is only the Tou Tomio's conjecture. This file name and description should be corrected.--Bukubku (talk) 14:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

The original caption "remnants of a defeated troop"（败残兵）"infiltrated into the Safety Zone" is a great lie by Kawamura（河村）, the photographer. A murderer is always a murderer. No matter if his hands are caught with blood.--MtBell 17:45, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) These helmed men in dark uniforms were policemen not soldiers, as show in this photo (a policeman, Mils and Magee at the entrance of the Safety Zone). It's impossible to mistake them for soldiers as the uniform of the Chinese Army is light gray.
 * 2) The policemen were dispatched by the Nanjing authority to the Safety Zone, not "infiltrated" (Kawamura lied). The Nanking International Committee published on December 8 a news release recorded in John Rabe's diaries: "They (the police) will watch the boarder of the safety zone and take in charge of the public security insde. 400 policemen have been dispached to the safety zone."（“他们将看守安全区边界，并负责区内的治安. 已经分配给安全区 ４００ 名警察"）
 * 3) These men were massacreed by Japanese according to George Fitch's on the spot report that policemen in the safety zone were collected and massacred by Japanese on December 17, which was the same day of the creation of this photo. Fitch wrote: "The 4th day after the entrance of the Japanese (December 17), another thousand people were dragged out of the Safety Zone and killed, including 50 policemen of the 450 assigned by the city to the Safety Zone. (Kasahara. One hundred days in the Safety Zone. 2005. page 136.)"（日军入城的第四天，又有1000人被拉出安全区屠杀，其中包括市里以前配给安全区的450名警察中的50名. ——笠原十九司. 《难民区百日》. 2005:第136页）
 * 4) The so called defeated troop was an excuse for massacre. Fitch reported that "any trace of physical works becomes the proof of the identity of soldiers. Evey man with these kinds of traces are doomed to death."

Talk:Eulsa Treaty
There is an ongoing discussion to move Eulsa Treaty to Japan-Korea Protectorate Treaty or 1905 Protectorate Treaty. Please participate in the discussion. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Nippon or Nihon?
At exonym and endonym, I need to know which should be used, Nippon or Nihon? --70.134.48.188 (talk) 22:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Both "Nihon" and "Nippon" are suitable romanizations of the kanji 日本.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 22:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup, it really depends on who you ask. "Nippon" tends to be a little more formal (or used for more formal things like banknotes and official documents), but that's not always the case. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WikiProject Japan ! 03:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Both are correct. The Cabinet officially approved both last year. --Shinkansen Fan (talk) 04:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

two "o-warai" tarento
Can somebody who (unlike me) has some knowledge of or interest in tarento take a look at Egashira 2:50 and Hiroshi (owarai)? They're unsourced collections of allegations of naughtiness or incompetence. (Or, if you prefer, they "raise BLP concerns".)

(If you're wondering how I reached these article on people of whom I'd never heard, now and again I look through the list of "alumni" in an article on this or that Japanese university. [This time it was Kyushu Sangyo University.] There are usually plenty of minor exponents of those Japanese arts curiously popular among anglophones, many of whom are alumni merely on some editor's say-so.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:31, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Postwar Japan
This page could use some serious cleanup, can anyone help?--Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 12:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)


 * The current article looks US-centric to me. Our foreign relations are more multilateral. For economic history, the "postwar period" is rather long, and can be divided into sub-periods. For example, we have a template like this: ja:Template:日本の経済史. I think we need to write more on the bubble and post-bubble years, citing information from pages like ja:平成, ja:昭和 and ja:昭和ノスタルジー.--Shinkansen Fan (talk) 05:24, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Moving Ingen
There is an open-ended discussion-thread here about changing the name of our article about the 17th century Buddhist priest Ingen. Should the article be re-named Yinyuan or Yin-Yuan?. Please participate in the resolving this small question. --Tenmei (talk) 21:54, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

FLC of national treasure swords
The List of National Treasures of Japan (crafts-swords) is currently a featured list candidate. Comments, questions and suggestions are welcome at the nomination page. bamse (talk) 08:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)