Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/February 2010

Cross-cultural stupidity contest
Ever think English-language Wikipedia is stupid? If so, remind yourself that the majority of its editors would not put up with complete bollocks in a featured article. Yes, ja:WP seems to be ahead of en:WP on a stupidity index. The second sentence of today's featured article at Japanese Wikipedia tells gullible fools and vampires alike that its subject is, I quote, 血液型はA型.

For something touting itself as an "encyclopedia" to put this trash in a "featured article" strikes me as a major embarrassment (especially today). But then I'm proud to call myself a member of what may be a shrinking group, the reality-based community.

(Hey, I've been politely editing here for something like four years. I've earned my right to a very occasional vent.) -- Hoary (talk) 11:29, 31 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Meh. 岡部-san's blood type presumably is A, so I don't really see how this is any different from reporting some porn star's bust size. ja:血液型性格分類 states quite clearly that "科学的検証では性格や気質と血液型との意味があると思われる関連性は発見されていない. "


 * On a more personal tangent, I don't think I've ever met any Japanese who seriously believe in blood types. Terms like "A型" are part of the Japanese language these days, in the same way that calling someone "anal" or "melancholic" doesn't mean you subscribe to Freud or the theory of four humors. Jpatokal (talk) 11:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


 * But the bust size (however achieved) is likely to be important to (female) porn stardom.


 * It's clear that millions of Japanese people are sufficiently serious about blood types as to want to repeat them to each other, even within what are supposed to be the best pages of something with encyclopedic pretensions. "Anal" isn't in my idiolect of personality types, but I understand that it's in that of many; and yes, where it is so, the analogy with "melancholic" is interesting. In these popularized senses, David O. Selzick was perceived as anal and Gordon Brown is perceived as melancholic; but, Freudists aside, even the goofier of armchair biographers don't go on from this to speculate about Selznick's relationship with his bum. Meanwhile, 血液型はA型 makes a factual claim about the man's blood, and leaves the interpretation to readers.


 * This blather is endemic in en:Wikipedia too. What a laugh Wikipedia is. -- Hoary (talk) 06:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That search isn't so bad when done correctly, with quotes.--  十  八  07:02, 4 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Not too bad? A matter of taste, perhaps. I quote from that search:
 * Daisuke Namikawa His blood type is B. He is 173 centimeters tall (5 feet 7 inches) and weighs 60 kilograms (132 lbs).
 * Daisuke Ono He was born in Kōchi Prefecture and his blood type is O. He weighs 64 kg (about 141 lbs) and his height is 174 cm (about 5'8"). ...
 * Nobuo Tobita His blood-type is AB . He is most known for the roles of Kamille Bidan (Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam ), Albert Heinrich/004 (Cyborg 009 (2001 ...
 * Sayaka Ohara Her blood type is B. She is a graduate of Aoyama Gakuin University 's Department of Literature.
 * Those are the starts of four consecutive hits. But maybe I'm in a minority in regarding this as bollocks. I do note that the string "blood" appears nowhere within the FA Ayumi Hamasaki, and tentatively infer that one or other of the peer-review process and the FAC process eliminates it. -- Hoary (talk) 13:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Bento
Bento was moved to Bento (takeout) without discussion, I am contesting this, please have a look. --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 00:42, 1 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It's been moved back so that a real move discussion can take place. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Meetup in Tokyo
How about planning a meetup between wiki users around Tokyo in late February 2010? -- Saki talk 08:22, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be fun. Now, if only I were living in Japan... (_;) ··· 日本穣 ? ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I can only second what Joe says... orz  TomorrowTime (talk) 13:39, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Featured List Candidacy of List of National Treasures of Japan (castles)
I nominated List of National Treasures of Japan (castles) at WP:FLC. The criteria for featured lists are found here. Please add comments or questions to the nomination page. bamse (talk) 10:37, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It got promoted. bamse (talk) 10:31, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Kiichiro Hurukawa
Would somebody have time to check for sources in Japanese for this fellow, I dont understand Japanese. Power.corrupts (talk) 15:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The power of dogu
I am looking for pictures of national treasure archaeological materials for List of National Treasures of Japan (archaeological materials) (and any of the other national treasure lists). Has anybody recently been to the Tokyo National Museum (or British Museum) and pictures of any of the three dogu national treasures (see ) to upload? Or if you are planning to go there (the exhibition is until February 21), please take a camera and snap a picture (or three). I'd be really happy if you did. Not sure if photography is allowed since it is a special exhibition. In any case most of the regular exhibition should be free to photograph and there are some great items as well. (see for what's on) If you are really nice, you could take pictures of any of the national treasures on display and upload to commons (or wikipedia). bamse (talk) 23:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Why don't you ask it on this page too? Oda Mari (talk) 15:05, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done now. I did not know about that page. Thanks for the link. bamse (talk) 19:08, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Shirakiya Department Store fire
I just found and tagged this. It's a worthwhile topic, but could use some help. Please lend a hand. お願いします！ --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:24, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I moved it to Shirokiya Department Store fire, added a picture, added the Japanese, and tagged a couple things as dubious. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 14:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * May I merge the article into Shirokiya or should I open a discussion? ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 03:55, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would go ahead and merge it. There doesn't seem to be enough verifiable information for a separate article. Be sure to keep the photo, though. :) ··· 日本穣 ? ·  投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:06, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Reading questions
The headquarters of 0verflow are in 杉商ビル (Sugishou building?) while the headquarters of Smilesoft were in (CT笹塚ビル) CT Sasazuka Building?

Would anyone like to confirm if those readings are correct? Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 18:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Where are these located? ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Correct. There's no other way to read them. Oda Mari (talk) 04:52, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. :) BTW, both buildings are in Tokyo. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

FAR
nominated Sino-German cooperation (1911–1941) for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here.  YellowMonkey  ( Southern Stars photo poll )  06:22, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Kyōhō Meibutsu-chō
I am starting to learn about Japanese swords and am improving the lists in List_of_National_Treasures_of_Japan_(crafts-swords). Eventually all lists should look like that of the  Awataguchi_school. The Database for Cultural Properties has entries which include things like: "名物厚藤四郎". I took this to mean that the corresponding sword is listed in the Kyōhō  Meibutsu-chō (享保名物帳) with the nickname "厚藤四郎". I have the following questions: bamse (talk) 10:41, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Is it correct to assume that 名物 (at bunkacho) refers to the Kyōhō Meibutsu-chō?
 * 2) Do all the swords that are listed in the Kyōhō Meibutsu-chō have a nickname?
 * 3) Are all the national treasure Kyōhō Meibutsu-chō (those which are both) swords marked as such (by 名物) in the database?
 * 4) Is there an online list of Kyōhō Meibutsu-chō swords?

Umetsugu Inoue reference needed
There is necessary reference/verification for Umetsugu Inoue for information "11 February, 2010". Thank you. --Snek01 (talk) 11:18, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * See Asahi Shimbun, Mainichi Shimbun(both in Japanese) ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 12:00, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Here are archived versions of those pages (respectively):
 * Asahi Shinbun
 * Mainichi Shinbun
 * ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 16:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help. Task finished. --Snek01 (talk) 16:36, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Modality in the Japanese language
Hey! I've wanted to write a new article for a time now called "Modality in the Japanese Language" but I am not sure whether it is notable enough to create. Any opinions?--Esuzu (talk • contribs) 18:12, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can find other articles written about it (or chapters in books about Japanese), then you can write about it. Otherwise, it would be considered original research. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 03:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Mei
What is the reading for this sword signature (mei): 銘守利? Is it a name? It is found on a Kamakura period tachi from Bitchū Province. Any suggestions welcome. bamse (talk) 00:47, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like a name; my guess would be mei moritoshi, as per the most likely romanization of the characters "守利". --armagebedar (talk) 03:29, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope these will help:, , ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 04:01, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Very helpful indeed. bamse (talk) 09:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

The nationality of Yoshiko Kawashima
In the article of the above, a question is posted about the legal citizenship of Yoshiko Kawashima. She was born a Chinese, but she was adopted by a Japanese. Should this not make her a Japanese citizen? But if she was a Japanese citizen, how could she be executed for treason against China? Did she have double citizenship?--85.226.47.128 (talk) 13:57, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * She did not have Japanese citizenship. With the support of her Japanese father, she would have qualified for Japanese citizenship, but it was not applied for. Further, she automatically had Chinese citizenship because her father was Chinese. 124.214.131.55 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC).


 * I see. I thought an adoption ment that she automatically became a Japanese citizen. Thank you!--85.226.47.128 (talk) 15:40, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Organ donation in Japan
I started the article on Organ donation in Japan. Surprisingly little info on WP. --Shuki (talk) 21:15, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

One reference too many
An ip is currently adding a certain book as reference to articles on Japanese architecture without adding any information to the respective articles (for instance or ). Can there anything be done about it or should we just ignore it? bamse (talk) 15:21, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I would ask him why he is adding those cites if he is not adding any new information. See what he says in response. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:14, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Done that. bamse (talk) 20:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

All Nippon Airways and the headquarters swap
I am aware that All Nippon Airways used the Kasumigaseki Building in Chiyoda, Tokyo as its headquarters for many years.

Yet before the late 1990s and 2003, when Shiodome City Center opened, ANA listed Haneda Airport as its headquarters on its website: http://web.archive.org/web/20000408155347/svc.ana.co.jp/brief/corp/index_e.html

When did ANA move the headquarters to Haneda Airport? I asked here because there are people with the knowledge of Japanese who can search news archives. News was made when Continental Airlines shifted its HQ from one Houston building to another. Surely ANA would have made news when it moved to Haneda Airport? WhisperToMe (talk) 20:14, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Naming about horse races
Hello. I am a Japanese-Wikipedia editor. Please forgive me that I can not use English well.

I would like to ask you about naming rule of Japanese articles in horse racing. Because of that I made Kyoto Kinen which translated article from ja:京都記念 3 day ago, and the article was renamed to Kyōto Kinen.

The notation, using macron for long vowels (ー), is surely right as an example of the Romaji notation. However, it is not a general notation in the present, and also JRA (Japan Racing Association) does not use it. On the JRA website, they does not use "ō", but "o". You can refer to official page. I have never seen this Romaji notation at least horse racing site in Japanese language.

I guess the article should be renamed again. However I do not know about English-Wikipedia's general naming rules. I am confused because some articles use "ō", and others use "o" in Category:Turf races in Japan. I asked WikiProject Thoroughbred racing about the problem, but they do not have a manual of style.

Which notation should I use when I write new articles? Should I have to make articles about Japanese with oldie romaji notation despite JRA does not use it?

Thank you. --by （あ） (talk) 01:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You should use macrons for long vowels in Japanese words. This is not common in most written English, but for English Wikipedia articles about Japanese terms it is the standard. If you find articles that should use macrons, but the macrons are missing, then those pages should usually be fixed. However, sometimes our editors have decided to keep a page at a title without macrons. For instance, we decided to name the page on Japanese boxed meals Bento, not Bentō. In such cases, you should leave the page as it is. — Gavia immer (talk) 01:55, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Where did the 京都記念 event occur? Surely not here. Here is what another encyclopedia has to say about 京都 in English: and . Or if you actually visit 京都, the first thing that you may find in English are signs such as this or this. 114.177.62.204 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 02:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC).
 * Hello, （あ）. I was the one who moved the article, per the naming section in the Manual of Style for Japan-related articles: "Article titles should use macrons as specified for body text except in cases where the macronless spelling is in common usage in English-speaking countries (e.g., Tokyo, Sumo and Shinto, instead of Tōkyō, Sumō and Shintō)." (There are some exceptions to this, but this is the general rule.) Since the Kyōto Kinen is not commonly referred to in English, the preceding rule regarding macrons applies: "For transliterations from kanji and kana, long o and u are written with macrons as ō and ū respectively." You may notice other articles that do not necessarily conform to these guidelines -- feel free to take action as you see fit. Be bold. --armagebedar (talk) 03:29, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * As our article Kyoto is without macron like Tokyo, I think article titles including the geographical name "Kyoto" do not need macron. Oda Mari (talk) 07:21, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Disagree. Just because the article is misspelled does not mean that further misspellings are warranted. Fix the article. Here is how a real, professionally written English encyclopedia handles it: and . By the way, we have Kyōto Station. Or you could ask Google: . 180.11.30.75 (talk)  —Preceding undated comment added 07:52, 19 February 2010 (UTC).
 * Well, not to nitpick, but the professionally written encyclopedia you linked to does make a blunder in the article - in the phrase "Nōh theatre" either the macron or the "h" is redundant. TomorrowTime (talk) 10:40, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The consensus is, to my knowledge, that if someone or something is well-known in English by a particular name, then it should be called that name. In the case of the place of Kyoto, while I feel that it should have the macron, the consensus is that it is best known in English without the macron, and it is officially known without it (e.g. ). Kyōto Station, on the other hand, should be referred to as such because that is what its official romanized name is. The same argument goes for Tokyo and Tōkyō Station. But since the way things are romanized by companies, organizations, and people is so haphazard, this is only a guideline at best, IMO. --armagebedar (talk) 07:59, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * It is not so simple. Kyōto Station and Tōkyō Station were moved today and Feburary 16 respectively by Armagebedar.
 * Dictionary
 * Kyoto (Dictionary.com) The Random House Dictionary, The American Heritage Dictionary
 * Kyoto (Encyclopedia.com) The Columbia Encyclopedia
 * Google hit;
 * Web Kyōto -Kyoto 676,000
 * Web Kyoto -Kyōto 101,000,000
 * BookKyōto -Kyoto 3,161
 * Book Kyoto -Kyōto 26,227
 * －－ Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Web "Kyōto station" -"Kyoto station" 85
 * Web "Kyoto station" -"Kyōto station" 373,000
 * Book"Kyōto station" -"Kyoto station" none
 * Book "Kyoto station" -"Kyōto station" 411
 * －－ Phoenix7777 (talk) 10:13, 19 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for so much responses. However, I have a tiny question that perhaps some user misreaded JRA (Japan Racing Assosiation) and JR (Japan Railway). I asked about a horse racing event that is held by JRA, not about a building which is owned by JR West and Tokai. Kyoto Kinen is held in Kyoto Racecourse near to Yodo Station. Kyoto Station does not have enough spaces for horses running.
 * I read the part of naming manual which you showed me, but I still think that the article should not have been renamed. The one of part of naming manual says, "except in cases where the macronless spelling is in common usage in English-speaking countries." Probably people who lives English-speaking countries hardly know about the event except few people who interested in Japanese horse racing. I guess that the "common usage in English" of the field should refer to the field. The common usage in horse racing should refer to horse racing books, magazines, newspapers and websites.
 * These are examples that using "Kyoto Kinen";
 * KYOTO KINEN (G2) - Japan Racing Assosiation, the organization which hold Kyoto Kinen.
 * search result - Bloodhorse, the oldest horse racing magazine in North America.
 * search result - Thoroughbred Times, the one of famous horse racing magazine such as Bloodhorse.
 * I have never seen that Kyoto Kinen is written as "Kyōto Kinen" except En-Wikipedia. Do you know any examples that horse races are written with macron? --by （あ） (talk) 15:42, 20 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No one misread JRA as JR. The JR examples were surely given as evidence of how to write 京都 in English. In general spelling of Japanese words is fairly f*cked up with no consistency. This is a result of both linguistic and technological ignorance. Even the guidelines are full of half-solutions ("compromises") giving rise to endless debate and page moves. If you are looking for consistency to the chaos, regrettably you will not find it here. By the way, I doubt that anyone was seriously asking where the event occurred; that should be interpreted as a rhetorical question (修辞的疑問文) contrasting Kyoto and Kyōto. 124.214.131.55 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:17, 20 February 2010 (UTC).
 * It's just that JR describes station names on the signboards in the stations per their manual of style. Even JR doesn't use macron on their webpages. and . Kyoto pref., Kyoto City, and Kyoto Univ. do not use macron. Using macron is not necessarily the standard way of Japanese Romanization. And we have our manual of style. As JRA describes the race without macron, the race name should be moved back. Oda Mari (talk) 06:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Image question
Regarding this image http://www.flickr.com/photos/philamike/4369098691/

Is this the Japan Airlines Narita Operation Center (JALways HQ?) - If so, then I can ask the author of the image to relicense it. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:43, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Reading question
What is the reading of 全菓連ビル (I know the biru part means building)? From http://www.pizza-la.co.jp/CorporateInfo.aspx WhisperToMe (talk) 15:48, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that it's zenkaren, but can someone else confirm that? —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 15:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, see . The building is the seat of zenkaren (=zenkoku kashi kōgyō kumiai rengōkai=All Japan Confectionery Industry Association ). --Asakura Akira (talk) 16:47, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much :) WhisperToMe (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Here's another one: It is mostly in katakana, but I am not sure what roman characters are supposed to be represented by this: ニューピア竹芝ノースタワー From: http://www.animax.co.jp/about/index.php?proc=company - WhisperToMe (talk) 22:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * "New Pier Takeshiba North Tower", I think. This is the site. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 23:01, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, see New Pier Takeshiba North Tower. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 23:07, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! Yeah, that's the name! WhisperToMe (talk) 23:59, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Sessha, Massha
This name is horribly unwikilike, can't we find a better one? --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 00:16, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Moved to Setsumatsusha, as that's the collective title for all of these kinds of shrines. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 00:26, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 05:34, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I, who has written the entire article and know a thing or two about it, should have been consulted too. I do have a talk page, you know. And I had my reasons to use Sessha, massha. Setsumatsusha is rare, and the Kōjien doesn't even mention it. Is it OK to use as a title a word which isn't included in the best Japanese dictionary on the market? - Frank (Urashima Tarō) 00:03, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The Japanese article on this is named 摂末社. So I think it's entirely appropriate. Further, I agree with Kintetsubuffalo that "Sessha, Massha" is a wholly un-Wikiesque name. If nothing else, it violates WP:TITLE as not being easy to find or consistent. —  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 02:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)