Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/October 2012

Help in locating a source
I remember seeing both a (official) name and a map referring to Emperor Shōmu's travels to Kawaguchi, Mino, Kuni around the 10th to 12th months of Tenpyō 12 (740). However I can't find them anymore. Might have been on google books, but am not sure. Perhaps somebody is more successful than me in using google. bamse (talk) 23:47, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Found the map here (page 59). bamse (talk) 14:05, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Reading of place names help
I need help with the reading of some old place names of the route which Emperor Shomu took in 740. Perhaps somebody knows how the following are read: 赤坂頓宮（同鈴鹿市), 朝明郡（同四日市市), 石占頓宮（同多度町）, 当伎郡（岐阜県養老町）, 不破頓宮（同垂井町), 横川頓宮（滋賀県山東町か同米原町）, 犬上頓宮（同彦根市）, 蒲生郡（同八日市市あたり？）, 野洲頓宮（同野洲町か／守山市？）, 禾津頓宮（同大津市）, 玉井頓宮（京都市山科区). In parentheses the modern location (for which I don't need a translation). I understand that 頓宮 is a temporary lodging for the Emperor, correct? bamse (talk) 21:42, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
 * You can probably find most if not all of them at EJ JE Weblio. For example, if you paste 赤坂頓宮 in the search box (if you use the text box then click on the rightmost radio button below it to translate JE) you will be shown "Akasaka tongū" as the reading. If you Google you will find that 赤坂頓宮趾 is in their dictionary. Don't hesitate to ask again if there are any that you can't find or are unsure of. LittleBen (talk) 01:23, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi bamse! The definition is correct. I'll take care of the reading. But I'm busy right now. Please wait for a while. Oda Mari (talk) 05:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Based on Weblio, I come up with the following. Would be great if you could have a look at it and remove the question marks. One more question, what does 同 mean in 同大津市 and other modern places? bamse (talk) 07:39, 8 October 2012 (UTC)


 * 赤坂頓宮: Akasaka tongū
 * 朝明郡: Asake district
 * 石占頓宮: Ishiura tongū
 * 当伎郡: Tagi district
 * 不破頓宮: Fuwa tongū
 * 横川頓宮: Yokokawa tongū
 * 犬上頓宮: Inukami tongū
 * 蒲生郡: Gamō district
 * 野洲頓宮: Yasu tongū
 * 禾津頓宮: Awazu tongū
 * 玉井頓宮: Tamanoi tongū


 * I added and corrected some. 同 is "same". Oda Mari (talk) 09:25, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I know 同 as "same" (in fact failed the kanji "writing" JLPT test on this particular kanji years ago), but what does it refer to, i.e. what is "same Otsu city"? bamse (talk) 09:44, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Could 玉井 also be read as Tamai, per this map　and this google search? bamse (talk) 13:49, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you are talking about 同 in this. 名張郡（三重県名張市、10/30） → 安保頓宮（同青山町、11/1）→ 河口頓宮（同白山町、11/2） This 同 means 三重県. 同青山町 means 三重県青山町. As for Tamanoi, my source is this. Tamai is the most common reading. Oda Mari (talk) 16:47, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I had missed that prefecture. Will use Tamanoi then. bamse (talk) 19:35, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Another tool which can be useful is this project page: WikiProject Japan/Place names with unusual readings. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 06:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Genealogy translation help
I am a bit confused by genealogies and could do with some help. For instance in: ja:藤原忠宗, what is the meaning of 妻：藤原家保の女. Does it mean that Fujiwara no Tadamune had children with the (official) wife or the daughter of Fujiwara no Ieyasu? bamse (talk) 08:08, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It means Tadamune's wife was a daughter of Ieyasu's, name unknown. According to this page, her mother, Ieyasu's (second) wife's name was also not known. That 女 means a daughter, name unknown. Oda Mari (talk) 08:39, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. bamse (talk) 08:41, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Tanka prose
FYI Tanka prose has been nominated for deletion -- 70.24.247.66 (talk) 04:52, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Move List of Japanese battles
List of Japanese battles includes not only pure battles but also "rebellions", "incidents",... I am basically fine (should the Takehaniyasuhiko Rebellion be included or is that more mythical than real?) with the content, but perhaps the name should be changed to List of Japanese conflicts or something similar. What do you think? bamse (talk) 22:07, 9 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Or move the rebellions and incidents to a separate list. I think there are plenty of battles without expanding it to include anything else. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 07:01, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, what would the non-battle list be called then? bamse (talk) 07:25, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe List of Japanese non-battle conflicts or List of historical Japanese conflicts? Not sure. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 06:51, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The way it stands seems fine. Who is qualified to split between battles, rebellions, revolts, insurrections, incidents, wars, massacres, and campaigns? You're opening a Pandora's box if you start splitting. Japanese sources won't be much help, either. After all, the Second Sino-Japanese War is still called the "China Incident" in many sources. Boneyard90 (talk) 12:48, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

MOS for Japanese dates
I might have asked this before here, but can't find it anymore and don't remember the outcome.... Are there any recommendations on how to write (old) Japanese dates together with their dates in the modern calendar? For example: Jinki 2, 8th month, 7th day: September 17, 725. Should we decide on a common style and add it to WP:MOS-JA? Shall we have a formatting template for such? bamse (talk) 13:30, 10 October 2012 (UTC)


 * no feedback? Does this mean, that nobody cares, or do you think it is a bad idea? bamse (talk) 14:40, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

RfC at Haibun
I'd appreciate input at Talk:Haibun regarding repeated attempts by two users to post questionable links to blog-style websites by modern English poets on what looks like it should probably be an article on an early-modern Japanese literary genre. elvenscout742 (talk) 13:15, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

"Air Division" to "Flying Division"
User:Mystia Lorelei, acting in good faith, has been bold and moved the titles of a number of articles pertaining to the Imperial Japanese Army Air Service. For example, 7th Air Division (Japan) was moved to 7th Flying Division (Japan), based on a literal translation of 第七飛行師団. However, such sweeping change should probably be discussed first. I'll open discussion by proposing that they be moved back, as standard English-nomenclature for that level of unit is Air division, as reflected in Military organization. I do not believe there is any loss of interpretation or derived significance in the original designation "air division". Furthermore, the referenced online source refers to it as "air division". Boneyard90 (talk) 22:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Disability judo classification → Judo classification
See talk:Disability judo classification for the discussion -- 65.92.181.190 (talk) 06:37, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

WWII aviation photos up for deletion
Many WWII aviation photos are up for deletion at Category:All Wikipedia files with unknown source -- 65.92.181.190 (talk) 08:11, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Is there no literature task force?
If not, why? Can I start one? elvenscout742 (talk) 08:27, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
 * There's WikiProject Japan/Culture task force -- 70.24.247.66 (talk) 05:09, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I've wondered the same thing. I strongly support starting one. Prburley (talk) 11:50, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That task force doesn't cover Natsume Soseki or The Tale of Genji or the Kojiki. The fact that sumo gets its own WikiProject, but Japanese literature doesn't even get a task force, is somewhat problematic. Any idea how we can go about remedying that? elvenscout742 (talk) 12:07, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought that's what the Bibliography Task Force is about. Boneyard90 (talk) 12:44, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I noticed that one, but the problem with that is that it apparently only includes individual texts, including non-literary works, and doesn't cover authors, genres, movements, etc. elvenscout742 (talk) 14:08, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * In general I don't mind a literature task force. However to me it seems that there are several task forces, that are basically inactive, or at least don't show what they are doing. Is this only my impression? Some task force talk pages are redirected to the WikiProject Japan talk page (i.e. this page) which to me is against the idea of focusing on a sub topic. Or perhaps I just don't know how to use task forces efficiently!? I usually do all my Japan related wikipedia user interaction through this page or user talk pages which works just fine for me. Perhaps if there are lots of people a task force could make sense. Not sure how many people are actively working on Japanese literature articles. But please don't let this discourage you to form a task force. I'd sign up. bamse (talk) 14:39, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I was under the wrong impression then, because I've been adding the Bibliography Task Force to articles on "authors, genres, movements, etc." Anything to do with books from and associated with Japan. A task force is what the members make it. Boneyard90 (talk) 15:40, 20 October 2012 (UTC)


 * That task force's page begins by stating that it seeks to develop a comprehensive group of articles describing Japanese bibliographical resources, including reference works, libraries, and research institutions. Individual authors who are/were also known as academics might technically fall under this category, but Mori Ōgai, Natsume Sōseki and Akutagawa Ryūnosuke, as well as the other fathers of modern Japanese literature, would at most be very loosely associated with that task force. I think there should be a new "Literature" task force on this WikiProject. But, examining the other similar WikiProjects (WikiProject China, WikiProject United States etc.) they don't seem to have literature task forces either. Is there some reason why, of which I'm not as yet aware? elvenscout742 (talk) 00:45, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure of any specific reason, but I can tell you that WP:Japan has far more task forces than most other wikiprojects I've come across, especially regarding the national WP's. WP:Military History definitely has more (48). WP:Food & Drink has 3 or 4 very specific task forces (restaurants, beer, desserts), but most articles don't fall in one. WP:China has four. WP:Death has one. It's rare when a WP:Japan article doesn't fall into some task force, but it occasionally happens. And I don't think many of them are as active as they used to be. It just seems to be a way to categorize articles, but ironically most don't have category pages. Boneyard90 (talk) 02:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I see the how & why of how the Bibliography Task Force came about, but bibliography seems way too specialized to be a task force under WPJ. And I'm a librarian. Much of the aging content on that project page would make a great "resource" section for a Literature Task Force. Wikipedia articles on works, authors, and genres in Japanese literature get a huge number of page views. It would be great to identify literature articles that should be improved/updated. Prburley (talk) 18:25, 22 October 2012 (UTC)


 * @Boneyard90 - I understand. My concern is not so much that certain articles would fail to fall under certain task forces, but that the task forces that currently cover those pages are either too general or too specific. Japanese literature is an area of academia for which virtually every major university in Japan has its own faculty. Sumo gets its own project and all of Japanese literature doesn't even get its own task force, is the problem. Since the overwhelming majority of my edits are devoted to Japanese literature, I would jump to join a task force devoted to that, but "culture" is far too broad. Since almost anything I can think of that falls under "Japanese literature" would also fall under "culture" its not a problem of full coverage, but of specificity.

@Prburley - The word "bibliography", if interpreted to mean any list of books, could apply in theory to all the individual works I would like to see included in a Japanese literature task force's purview, but having books covered under "bibliography" and their authors covered under "biography", with no recognized connection between the two seems anachronistic. I agree with you that the current bibliography task force is far too specific. (Also, as a general rule, any article on Japanese literature that I started is one that needs to be improved! :P ) elvenscout742 (talk) 04:34, 23 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Actually I like the broader concept of a language/literature task force like you see with the Russian project: Language and literature of Russia task force.
 * So, how do you create a new task force at this project? I'm willing to do the work, I'm just not sure how.Prburley (talk) 11:26, 23 October 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds good. My only problem with "culture" is that three quarters of the articles are on subjects I'm largely not interested in, and most Wikipedians who are here for Japanese literature (and to a lesser extent language :) ) would probably agree. elvenscout742 (talk) 13:55, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Image search
User:Ansei and me have been looking for images (usable on wikipedia) of three important figures of Nara period politics/history: Dōkyō, Empress Kōken and Fujiwara no Nakamaro. Perhaps somebody is more lucky with a search or can help with the dating or identification of the images we found here. The images would go in several articles, not only the bio-articles. bamse (talk) 20:58, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Quick translation question
Can anyone tell me what ドラゴンクエスト 精霊ルビス伝説 means in English? It's the title of a book based on the Dragon Quest series, and all Google will give me is "Legend Quest bis spirit", while EJJE Biblio gives me "Dragon Warrior apparition of a living person agates legend". I'd settle for the Romaji in a pinch, but I need something in non-Japanese characters to put in List of Dragon Quest media. Thanks! -- Pres N  21:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't know anything about the topic, but the romaji would be: "doragon kuesuto seirei rubisu densetsu". As translation perhaps something like: "Dragon Quest, Legend of the Rubis spirit". bamse (talk) 22:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much! -- Pres N  01:37, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Tecmo Koei Kurosawa video game
There is an article at Ni-Oh on a video game that Tecmo Koei is making with an unfinished Akira Kurosawa script. The article was nominated for deletion. I don't think it should have issues surviving AfD, but if someone with an interest in the topic would add content from Japanese sources that'd be super helpful. Every time I've tried using Google Translate with Wikipedia so far I've caused international incidents, and I've pretty-much tapped English sources. Any help would be appreciated. ▫  Johnny Mr Nin ja  08:14, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

New Ryukyu Islands map
Blofeld's evil volcano to nearby Japanese civilians. Template:Location map Japan Ryukyu Islands has been created. Failure to use in Ryukyu articles will result in a quick dispatch of SPECTRE helicopters to eliminate you. Enjoy!♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld  15:10, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Map problem
If I am not mistaken, in this map which is used in Tōsandō, there are too many provinces in Tohoku as at the time there were only Mutsu Province and Dewa Province covering all of Tohoku, no? Perhaps somebody good with maps could fix this. bamse (talk) 21:15, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Classify Japanese as an Altaic language?
Discussion is here. LittleBen (talk) 16:13, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

2012 Japanese American infobox representatives open nomination period
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Asian American. RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 23:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)