Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan/Archive/September 2009

Pageview stats
After a recent request, I added WikiProject Japan to the list of projects to compile monthly pageview stats for. The data is the same used by http://stats.grok.se/en/ but the program is different, and includes the aggregate views from all redirects to each page. The stats are at WikiProject Japan/Popular pages.

The page will be updated monthly with new data. The edits aren't marked as bot edits, so they will show up in watchlists. You can view more results, request a new project be added to the list, or request a configuration change for this project using the toolserver tool. If you have any comments or suggestions, please let me know. Thanks! Mr.Z-man 01:34, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


 * It's really sad that Bukkake is #5 in the list, before Anime and Tokyo. Really sad. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:57, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Awesome, I've been looking forward to these stats. Thanks Z-man! And wow, you are right, that is pretty sad joe. I would have never guessed that either. -- T orsodo g Talk 05:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * If you find any on the list that aren't assessed, please assess them. I've done down through Mazda. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 06:04, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Kyūjō Incident
This article includes a tag which points out a lack of references for sources, but the information on the Kyūjō Incident included in the featured article Surrender of Japan (which is found here) contains many reference citations and appears to contain at least as much information as the standalone article for the Kyūjō Incident. If anyone is interested then maybe the article can be rewritten to include some of the reference citations from the featured article. Of course, the purpose of even having a separate article for the Kyūjō Incident is presumably so it would contain more information than the section embedded in the Surrender of Japan article, so maybe that embedded section could have some information taken out. Rewriting articles about Japanese history is way out of my league, as I know nothing of the topic, so I cannot determine which information is necessary to be included in either of the articles. I decided to point this out here in the WikiProject Japan because it seems oddly incongruous to have such a poorly cited article that contains the same information as part of a featured article. New User(talk) 02:12, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Unequal Treaties
Unequal Treaties is up for rename and a relate page is to be deleted. See Talk:Unequal_Treaties

76.66.200.21 (talk) 03:52, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Merger Proposal.
Talk:Lost_Decade_(Japan) - any commentary on the issue would be more than appreciated. The Squicks (talk) 05:18, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Taima Mandala
Is the first Kanji in Taima Mandala correct or should it read 当麻曼荼羅? Possibly the article could be interwikilinked to ja:当麻曼荼羅!? bamse (talk) 08:39, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's correct. Because the official page uses 當麻曼荼羅. I add the ja link. Oda Mari (talk) 09:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks. bamse (talk) 09:43, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

尺
Shaku → Chi (length) - has been requested at WP:RM, see talk:Shaku

76.66.196.139 (talk) 05:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

List of National Treasures of Japan (sculptures) at FLC
See Featured list candidates/List of National Treasures of Japan (sculptures)/archive1; comments are welcomed, thanks. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Also pictures of statues are welcome and suggestions and/or help with expanding the lead section. thanks bamse (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Where would you like us to put pictures if we have them? I don't see a column for that on the page. Thanks. Also, you're welcome to go through my own photos on Flickr and make use of whatever you would like. If I feel like I have the time, maybe I'll go through them myself and see what I can fit in; but if you feel like taking the time yourself, please feel free. LordAmeth (talk) 22:47, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the offer to use your pictures. What license should I use for them? Please feel free to add to the (newly created) picture column. I went through all the Japanese sculpture pictures on commons and found more than I had expected. Still some space left in that column. Will check my own pictures as well.bamse (talk) 10:22, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Creative Commons Share-Alike with Attribution is just fine. Thanks! I apologize I haven't had the time today, yesterday, to do this myself with the photos. I continue to wish you good luck with your project! Keep up the good work! LordAmeth (talk) 19:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Uploaded and added some of my pictures to the list (from Sanjūsangen-dō, Tō-ji, Tōdai-ji and Kōfuku-ji). I also looked through your flickr pictures but did not find any statues which did not have a picture on commons already. Also checked some other of your pictures. bamse (talk) 12:24, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Futamatao Station
I'm currently reading Haruki Murakami's new novel 1Q84, and this tiny country station makes an appearance in it. Right now the article pretty much says "Futamatao is a railway station in Japan". If anybody has any info on the station, maybe they could add some more meat to the article - I'm sure it'll get its share of views at the time the English translation hits the bookshelves. TomorrowTime (talk) 09:02, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The Japanese article has a bit more information. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 01:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Translation request
Current FPC with (what I presume to be, recognizing this character as being Japanese: の) Japanese characters on it. Could somebody translate the Japanese text, including the text on the left border? This will be included on the image page. If this is not actually Japanese, slap me, and I'll go to Wikiproject China. Thanks in advance!  upstate NYer  03:29, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Top border center text:
 * Top border right text:
 * Left border text:


 * It's definitely Japanese as the date on the left says that it's September 10 in Meiji 33, and the address given (presumably for the printer or artist) is in Tokyo. I'll let someone else translate it, though, as some of the kanji are older ones I don't know. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 04:45, 15 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The translaiton of the top border center text is given in the bottom center text; The Fall of the Pekin Castle The Hostile Army Beating Away From The Imperial Castle By The Allied Armies. The top border right text is 清國戰亂畫報其廿壱, in shinjitai using common numeral 清国戦乱画報其二十一, roughly translates to "Pictorial on War Disturbance of Qing Part 21". The left border text is the dates of printing and publication, the address (of publisher?), the name of the illustrator, printer and publisher and the name of the sales agency. --Kusunose 05:59, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The left border text translation: Date of printing: September 3, Meiji 33. Date of publication: September 13, Meiji 33 (literally says 13th of the same month in the same year). (Address:) 15 Minami Norimonochō, Kanda Ward, Tokyo City. Illustrator, Printer and Publisher: Torajirō Kasai. Sales Agency: Seiundō. Kusunose 06:23, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Great; thank you!  upstate NYer  11:42, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

NOTICE. Request For Comment: Changes to Naming policies which may affect WikiProject naming conventions.
Following recent changes by some editors to the Naming conventions policy page, a Request For Comment, (RFC) is now being held to debate the removal of the passage specifying that individual WikiProject and other naming conventions are able to make exceptions to the standard policy of using Common Names as the titles of Wikipedia articles.

This WikiProject is being notified since it operates such a specific naming convention. Editors are invited to comment on the proposed change at this location.  Xan  dar  01:19, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The above "notification" is a grossly biased misrepresentation of the changes under discussion. The old version of the naming conventions policy tried to lay down binding rules; we don't work that way, so it was necessary also to make explicit exceptions. The new version articulates principles, and allows for consensus to establish how they should be applied. Thus there is no longer any need for exceptions. In fact, making exceptions is nonsense, since there are no rules to make exceptions to. These changes are good for specific conventions. Xandar is trying to induce moral panic in those who stand to gain the most from this. Xandar is only opposed to the new version because he thinks the wording, not the general thrust, weakens his position in a dispute unrelated to this RfC. Don't be fooled. Hesperian 02:42, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Not to mention the fact that he misrepresents the naming conventions used by this WikiProject. WPJ uses Common Names as the titles of Wikipedia articles. The only real exception to that is if no Common Name can be clearly established, in which case the most common Japanese name for the topic is used. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:33, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Identification request and license question
Hi! While looking for pictures of Japanese sculptures, I found this collection of photographs of Japanese (mainly 2D) art. They were published 1899-1908, so I believe I can upload them to commons based on their age. Which license should I use in this case? On the same site I found this thousand-armed Kannon (千手観音). Unfortunately I don't know where it is located. Specifically I would like to know if it is one of the National Treasure thousand-armed Kannon statues at Hosshō-ji, Kōryū-ji, Kōfuku-ji, Dōjō-ji (道成寺) or Tōshōdai-ji. It would be great if somebody could identify the statue in the old photograph. PS: I don't think it is the same as the statue at Kōfuku-ji which can be seen here for comparison. bamse (talk) 16:57, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * For the Commons upload, use PD-1923 and PD-Japan ... but since the originals are non-photographic works, they're only actually in the public domain in Japan if the artist died (rather than published) more than 50 years ago. cab (talk) 00:28, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, it looks like the artist's date of death is not a problem since the underlying works are from "earliest times up to the end of the Tokugawa Era". As for the photos:
 * For the 2D works, the photos themselves probably can't be objects of copyright (see PD-Art) since they're just reproductions of underlying works. So it doesn't matter when they were published --- the underlying works (the 2D art) are public domain, so the photos are too no matter if they were taken in 1908 or just last night.
 * For the 3D works, the photos might be objects of copyright, but since they were published more than 50 years ago, the copyright on the photos already expired.
 * Sorry for the confusion, cab (talk) 01:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply. I started to upload pictures of some statues under both licenses. I still don't know what this statue is though. It is neither of the thousand-armed Kannons of Kōfuku-ji, Dōjō-ji (道成寺) or Tōshōdai-ji which look like this, this and this. It might still be a thousand-armed Kannon from Hosshō-ji or Kōryū-ji for which I did not find any pictures. Or maybe it is another Kannon (Eleven-faced 十一面観音)? bamse (talk) 13:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

New pictures
I've been uploading a bunch of pictures of old (National Treasure) paintings, sculptures and writings/calligraphy. They might be of interest for articles related to Buddhism, Japanese or Chinese art. Feel free to use whatever you like. I will probably continue uploading a few more pictures. First goal is to fill List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings) with as many pictures as I can find. Of course the sculpture list still needs pictures, but it is not easy to find usable pictures since sculptures are 3D... bamse (talk) 11:16, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Translation or transcription
Just out of curiosity, can somebody decipher the text on the following four pictures I uploaded? File:Exterminationf of Evil Tenkeisei.jpg, File:Extermination of Evil Shinchū.jpg, File:Extermination of Evil Shōki.jpg, File:Extermination of Evil Vaisravana.jpg bamse (talk) 02:10, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that the images might be copy-righted. Oda Mari (talk) 07:40, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I hope not. My understanding was that pictures (even recent ones) of old 2D art are in the public domain. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Japan. bamse (talk) 08:30, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * TNM may not hold the copyright to the art, but they certainly hold the copyright for any photographs they have taken of the art. -- T orsodo g Talk 13:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * You mean this decision. Then could we ignore these? and . I'm not an expert on copyright. It would be helpful to ask at Media copyright questions. Oda Mari (talk) 15:59, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's what I mean. Thanks for the link, I asked at Media copyright questions. bamse (talk) 17:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The first response wsa positive (no problem with copyright). Also after reading commons:Commons:When to use the PD-Art tag I don't see a problem with copyright in these cases. As far as I understand, pictures are not copyrighted just because somebody (TNM in this case) claims they are. bamse (talk) 08:37, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Merge suggestion
I think that Hell Scroll (Nara Natinoal Museum scroll) should be merged with Jigoku-zoshi (Tokyo National Museum scroll) as is done in the Japanese article. bamse (talk) 02:33, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd support a merge as Hell Scrolls, as a type or genre within Japanese painting. LordAmeth (talk) 18:17, 21 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Alternatively we could have Hell Scroll (Nara National Museum) and Hell Scroll (Tokyo National Museum). In any case it does not make sense to have two articles with the same name (one in English, one in Japanese) which deal with different subjects. bamse (talk) 08:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree with merging. And I for one will be disappointed if we can't get the wonderfully named Hell of the Flaming Cock up to DYK status by April 2010... Jpatokal (talk) 11:18, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd love to see the cock on the main page. Unfortunately I have neither references nor time to improve the article. Do you? I could provide a picture as soon as this license issue can be considered resolved. bamse (talk) 16:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I decided that it is resolved, so the cock is flaming here now. bamse (talk) 20:35, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Tsubame gaeshi (燕返)
Tsubame gaeshi (燕返) has been prodded for deletion. 76.66.196.139 (talk) 05:56, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

New bio
I just started a stub on Junzo Shono, who passed away two days ago. If someone has a chance could please add name kanji and a link to the ja article? Thank-you. Cla68 (talk) 23:10, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Calling any/all Tokyo-based photographers
I've been working on List of tallest buildings and structures in Tokyo again by adding images and coordinates for all of the buildings and structures. Unfortunately there are a few I can't find pictures for:
 * Shinjuku Center Building (Ja) - It looks like this could be used if I cropped it, but I'd prefer a more dedicated image if possible.
 * JA Building (大手町一丁目地区第一種市街地再開発事業) - This is a rather new and bland building, so I don't think anyone has bothered to make an article or take a picture of it yet, unfortunately.
 * Park City Toyosu Building A (Ja) - Another new building
 * Marcus Island LORAN-C transmitter - If anyone has access to Minami Torishima... haha
 * Chūō Incineration Plant - This is actually very close to The Tokyo Towers. Shouldn't be too hard to grab a shot of it if anyone is close!

And that's it! Any help is appreciated. Thanks. -- T orsodo g Talk 20:45, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

A-Class review for Tosa class battleship now open
The A-Class review for Tosa class battleship is now open; all editors are invited to participate, and any input there would be appreciated! Thanks! — Ed   (talk  •  contribs)  22:23, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Need help speaking with a Japanese Editor - Translation
Hi, could someone who speaks both English and Japanese help out with this editor: User_talk:Yu_klose. He is active on the JP wiki in hockey stuff and sometimes comes here to update things, unfortunately he rarely provides references or explains his edits. Currently at issue is this edit. He is changing two players nationality to japanese. From his google translation (I think) that he finally replied with on his talk page, it would seem he's saying those two players have been naturalized. I suspected this, but I have no source to back that up. Could someone ask him to provide a reliable source which comments on that and tell us whether those individuals now have dual citizenship or if they've taken japanese nationality only. Also remind him of the need for sources on the english wikipedia and if someone undoes his edits and he can't communicate about them, that he probably shouldn't keep doing them over and over. Thanks guys.--Crossmr (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hi! I left a message in Japanese on his talk page. I hope these could be used as source. and . And Japan doesn't allow dual nationality. Oda Mari (talk) 18:55, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I don't read any japanese (I had to use google) which article goes with which player?--Crossmr (talk) 23:29, 25 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The first one, an NHK page, says Darcy Mitani Takeshi was naturalized in 2008 and the second one, an interview page at Pia Corporation, says Chris Yule was naturalized in 1997 and played at Olympic games in Nagano in 1998. Oda Mari (talk) 04:31, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, could you check to make sure I got the info right in the cite tags? . I didn't see a date in the second one, and I'm not sure if there were authors listed for these pieces.--Crossmr (talk) 05:59, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The cite tags are correct. According to this back number list, the date of the interview/the interview page is Oct. 30, 1991. See #95. The first one has no author's name. The second one is interviewed and written by 石田英恒/Hidetsune Ishida and the photographer was 橘蓮二/Renji Tachibana. Oda Mari (talk) 07:23, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help!--Crossmr (talk) 09:04, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Introduction, more or less
Hey. I (finally) formally joined the project, so I wanted to do a quick introduction. I've been around here for quite a long time and have been involved with editing Japanese articles for awhile, but I just never got around to signing my name on the participants list. Um.. my main focus here is translating articles from ja.wiki. I usually pick articles that I'm interested in, like food, culture and religion, but I'll take requests from time to time. So, uh, I guess that's it. I look forward to working with everyone. &mdash;  Hello Annyong  (say whaaat?!) 05:14, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Welcome to the project, and thanks for all your previous contributions. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe 05:00, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Question
Are Hikoshiro Hiromitsu and 貞宗 the same person? bamse (talk) 09:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I think they are. Oda Mari (talk) 10:11, 30 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I think Hikoshiro Sadamune(彦四郎貞宗), Kurojiro Hiromitsu(九郎次郎広光) are correct. See 貞宗, 　―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 12:01, 30 September 2009 (UTC)