Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jazz/Archives/2011 1

Template:Miles Davis
Could someone clean it up? I found this items need to be solved:
 * The Albums are not organized in chronological order
 * A few false albums in false groups

Also I don't see any reason that the group "compilation" should be included, since only a few are listed there and the others in other groups. I don't like the grouping. Maybe we should simply grouping it, like the most music templates, in STUDIO ALBUMS, COMPILATION ALBUMS, SOUNDTRACK ALBUMS, LIVE ALBUMS, and not like here in The Birth of the Cool or Columbia Years. I would do that if I would have more knowledge to Miles Davis. Thank you.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 11:03, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Blues
A discussion is taking place on the most appropriate and helpful name for the article on the musical form the blues. It is currently named Blues. It was moved to The blues, then moved back to blues. A current suggestion is blues music. Wider consensus is welcomed.  SilkTork  *YES! 12:59, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Irene Daye
Re Irene Daye

Irene was born Irene Endyke in Lawrence Mass.

Her first big band association was with DAN Murphy and his Musical Skippers (not Jan Murphy). My father, Chet Young played trumpet in that orchestra.

Other members of that orchestra included

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.180.158 (talk) 20:35, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Ray Conniff (Trombone)
 * Cliff Leeman (Drums) Later with Artie Shaw, Tommy Dorsey, Charlie Barnet, Woody Herman
 * Jimmy Blake (Trumpet) Later with Tommy Dorsey (Bennie Goodman?)
 * Russ Klein (Sax)  Later with Freddy Martin, Lawrence Welk
 * Thanks, but what is it you want us to do with this information? Is this a request for a new article? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:45, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Miles Davis
Hi from the Music Project. I see we now have a one-member Miles Davis Project. I'm wondering whether this would have been better as a Jazz task force? Many single musical artist project fail, whereas genre projects like this one remain productive over many years. What do members here think? Are enough editors willing to participate in the new project to make it viable? Regards. -- Klein zach  01:36, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * No it won't fail. There are significant editors which improved the articles about Miles Davis alot. We have a GA and a few B-classes and I am sure we (the upcoming members) will do significant work to Miles Davis related articles. This WikiProject won't fail, trust me. Regards.-- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 09:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * After nearly three weeks there are still only three members including Greatorangepumpkin who started the project. Is anyone else interested in making this a genuine, productive collaboration? -- Klein zach  01:12, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

STELLA BY STARLIGHT
In the current article about Stella by Starlight it says that the words Stella by Starlight appear in the song only about two thirds of the way through the song. This is not correct. I have sung this song many times and the words Stella by Starlight appear in the very first line of the song which is:

Have you seen Stella by Starlight standing alone moon in her hair.

My source is the sheet music for this song in several compilations of jazz which I have. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PROMETHEUS9347 (talk • contribs) 23:54, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Taeko Fukao
Hey guys, I'm a wikiguide for Calvinbarber (among others). He is working on an article about a jazz artist Takeo Fukao. You can see it here: Taeko Fukao. Anyways, since it's a BLP article about a Jazz artist, it's kind of not one of my usual topics. I was hoping someone from here could help him out with this article. Thanks, --E♴ (talk) 00:04, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Want to participate but don't know where to begin
Hi All,

I have hesitated regarding participation for years because I become lost and don't know to begin.

My passions are Jazz Improvisation, Afro-Cuban Jazz and Jazz Bass Guitar.

Is there a way I can help.

Enjoy The Journey, Tom Williams AKA mystic1  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mystic1 (talk • contribs) 05:18, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
 * None of the pieces nominated for the Best Improvised Jazz Solo Grammy have articles yet, see 53rd Grammy Awards. Of the six Jazz categories only one winner The Stanley Clarke Band has an article. I see that you're a new user so please feel free to drop me a line on my talk page if you want help. J04n(talk page) 16:47, 11 March 2011 (UTC)


 * A good place to start could be to browse the cleanup listing (link on the project page, right-hand-side, with a broom image). Its size is a bit daunting but once you recognise some articles on familiar topics that need improvement, that could give a start. AllyD (talk) 10:04, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Stats on music projects
See Table showing productivity/size of the 48 music projects for information about this project and other music groups. -- Klein zach  08:08, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Reliable sources for biographies - views sought
Ths project's "Possible sources for authors/editors" includes Allaboutjazz. I've long regarded the signed reviews there as useful and have used them to reference articles. I've been less comfortable about the unsigned biographies and news releases, seeing various instances where I suspect the same person has created a biography on AAJ and then used it to evidence a Wikipedia (auto?)biography that they are writing. In a recent discussion on a Talk page, another editor pointed to two AAJ articles: The Wiki Side of All About Jazz: How You Can Help and Submission Guidelines: Submitting an Article and concluded that AAJ is not a reliable source. I agree with the point but regard the signed reviews as more solid. So assuming others agree, maybe the line in "Possible sources" should be amended to specify "All About Jazz" - bylined review and interview articles only. Thoughts? AllyD (talk) 17:51, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree, not everything on AAJ is professionally written, you have to check out the author to ensure they are staffers. Another issue with AAJ that you have to be careful about is that they publish press releases. J04n(talk page) 18:35, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Cornet/important players/today's players
Please consider adding Connie Jones of New Orleans, whom Pete Fountain has called the greatest cornetist he has ever played with. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.5.119 (talk) 12:51, 5 April 2011 (UTC) ]
 * Agree Connie Jones deserves an article; we already have a number of photos of him available on Commons. Infrogmation (talk) 14:30, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There's an article about him here, a short profile here, and there's also something about him in the book Traditional New Orleans Jazz by Thomas W. Jacobsen. Meeting WP:MUSICBIO probably won't be a problem. Jafeluv (talk) 19:01, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Article started. Feel free to improve. Jafeluv (talk) 22:43, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Files for deletion/2011 April 6
All opinions welcome. Thank you. walk victor falktalk 06:31, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Todd S. Jenkins
An anonymous editor, and the (ostensible) subject of the article, had attempted to request deletion of Todd S. Jenkins. I'm not really sure what to do about it, if anything, but I've left comments at Talk:Todd S. Jenkins. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:12, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Contemporary jazz
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Contemporary jazz. Gyrofrog (talk) 22:56, 11 April 2011 (UTC) (Using )

Category:Soul-jazz musicians discussion
You are invited to join the discussion at Categories for discussion/Log/2011 April 14. Gyrofrog (talk) 23:24, 14 April 2011 (UTC) (Using )

Invitation to join the Grammy Awards task force
In case any project members would be interested in helping with jazz-related Grammy articles and lists. -- Another Believer ( Talk ) 21:44, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Willie "The Lion" Smith
The grammer and word usage in this particular wiki needs work. Being new to this part of the site, I believe that task is better left to someone else, probably an educator who uses and contributes articles in this category.2r02h211er (talk) 16:16, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Drawing your attention to another genre Talk page discussion

 * Talk:Urban jazz AllyD (talk) 13:38, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Discussions at Articles for Deletion

 * Articles for deletion/Benoit Delbecq AllyD (talk) 17:47, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Categorization schemes discussion at WT:ALBUM
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums. Gyrofrog (talk) 16:50, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

"Personnel" vs. "Performers"?
I see both of these terms heading the part of the article where it lists the musicians. I think this should be standardized across all Jazz articles. My vote goes to "Personnel". Any opinions? ExplorerPlus (talk) 03:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I would lean toward "personnel" as it allows for non-performers, e.g. producer, engineer, cover artist etc. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for the input. Anyone else? ExplorerPlus (talk) 00:35, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Personnel has a long history in jazz liner notes, aside from the aforementioned inclusion of sometimes inestimable support folks like (e.g.) Rudy Van Gelder and Teo Macero.Snardbafulator (talk) 21:50, 14 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I've been generally using "personnel", and it would be the only choice if the intention is to list producers, sound engineers and other non-performing personnel in the same list (as some album sleeves do). It probably makes more sense to list performing personnel in a separate list, though. In any case, I don't think this should be a genre-specific choice -- maybe better to bring it up at a more general project like Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums? Jafeluv (talk) 13:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Soliciting Comment on Jazz Fusion Talk Page -- Ideas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jazz_fusion#Ideas

I'd like to disambiguate this article, at least separating out jazz-rock fusion (Miles alums) and possibly jazz rock as well. This would be a rather big task involving the sourcing of a historical genre that doesn't currently have a Wikipedia article, and I'd appreciate any feedback whether you think this is a good idea, bad idea, partially good, etc. Thanks. Snardbafulator (talk) 13:50, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Ethno jazz
FYI, I've added to the Ethno jazz article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:37, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ...and it was since contested. The article has previously been discussed here; it's in the archives. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:13, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Kind of Blue
An article that you have been involved in editing, Kind of Blue has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the good article reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article.  howcheng  {chat} 17:42, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

A couple of interesting Talk page discussions
People here may want to read and discuss (on the Talk pages)? AllyD (talk) 21:29, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Talk:Jazz_fusion
 * Talk:Cool_jazz


 * Hi, AllyD. I wrote POV Pushing, which was deliberately a little polemical and chain-yanking to try to start a discussion on perhaps disambiguating some of the distinct styles tossed into the general bin of "jazz fusion."  Genre in jazz is a pretty complicated subject; this project, for instance, is listed under "art music" which might have appeared a little incomprehensible to, say, Louis Armstrong.  (Jazz didn't become a non-mainstream "art music" until the postwar period with the birth of bebop.)  My suggestions (and I just wrote a much more collaboratively-minded post) would be to create separate articles for "jazz-rock fusion" to talk about the early-70s Miles alumnae who were more culturally aligned with progressive rock than with jazz, and for "jazz rock" which encompasses everything from rock and pop with the most superficial stylistic relationships to jazz to collective improvisation on electric instruments verging into avant-garde.


 * Unfortunately, we're probably stuck with the label "jazz fusion," as it's become common parlance. But John McLaughlin has very little in common with Kenny G.  The best solution may be to give these distinct approaches their own foci with separate articles about genres that can be more accurately sourced in, e.g., Down Beat.


 * What say the jazzbos here? Is this on the right track?


 * Thanks for your feedback,


 * Snardbafulator (talk) 18:57, 19 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I've re-written cool jazz. If nothing else, "additional citations" is probably no longer an issue. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Not my big area of interest but looks a solid substantiated rewrite - in fact heading towards a good article? AllyD (talk) 17:06, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:List of jazz clubs
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of jazz clubs. Gyrofrog (talk) 17:12, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

no WP article on Encyclopedia of Jazz Musicians
Encyclopedia of Jazz Musicians Encyclopedia of Jazz Musicians How is it possible that there is not yet a WP article on this? Don't WP editors writing on jazz use it as a source? It wasn't even listed on this project page.--Espoo (talk) 19:51, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned on WP:JAZZ (our project page), under the "Possible sources for authors/editors" section. I hadn't yet consulted it, myself, so thanks.  I am not sure whether it warrants its own Wikipedia article or not.  Also, the fact that it accepted updates at one point makes it seem more like a slow-moving wiki (which in and of itself, would be problematic as a reliable source - it's the same reason we can't cite other Wikipedia articles).  On the other hand, the fact that it has editorial oversight (including Ted Gioia, no less) makes a huge difference. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 20:00, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, I didn't notice that you're the one who added the link to WP:JAZZ a little while ago, so thanks for doing that. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Article re-assessments
I've recently expanded both cool jazz and West Coast jazz. Currently they are assessed as "Start" and "Stub" class, respectively. I'm sure either article could use more work (e.g. West Coast jazz doesn't mention the San Francisco scene; there is naturally a lot of overlap in terms of content but I wound up re-using text from one article in the other), but I'm wondering if anyone would care to go ahead and re-assess these. (If you think they should wait until we complete more work on them, that's fine, too.) Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:28, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
 * For that matter, I gave Hard bop a re-write a while back. It's still classified as "Start", though. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 23:53, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Meetup/NARA 2
I live near Archives II, and I may be able to attend/participate in the NARA 2 meetup on October 8. I have made a potential "wish list" at User:Gyrofrog/NARA 2. Feel free to add to or modify my list, although I have left comments at Wikipedia talk:Meetup/NARA 2, which might be a better place to centralize any discussion. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 23:22, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (music)#Delete "Every album by notable musician gets own article" guideline?
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Notability (music). Gyrofrog (talk) 15:53, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Jimmy Rushing article
This article is worth watching as for whatever reason over the past week there have been repeated attempts on his parentage. AllyD (talk) 18:20, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I've put it on my watchlist. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:24, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * This activity actually goes back to March 2011, and I have restored the sentence in question from the Oct 4, 2010 revision. I've blocked three accounts involved with this; see Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Ahflyboss. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:37, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah cheers, and good work in going deeper in the history. It is weird how some musicians' biographies attract strange vandalism; there's another recently which was getting recurring attempts to add a photo of a sportsman of another name. AllyD (talk) 20:01, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

American Big Band List
We saw the list of big bands and noticed that there are large numbers of big bands, who were big time, but are not on the published list.

I sat down to think of a hundred well known big bands and stopped at 102. I then cross checked on Wikipedia and found 42 that were on both - thus 59 other well known bands, some major ones such as Lionel Hampton, Glen Gray, Les Brown, Charlie Barnet and Gene Krupa are not on the list.

Here is my list, separating the duplicates and the new ones. Questions? Comments? Advice? Are these names worth adding? Does anyone give a hoot?

Thank you!

1.	Bob Allen 2.	Louis Armstrong 3.	Count Basie 4.	Bunny Berrigan 5.	Cab Calloway 6.	Jimmy Dorsey 7.	Tommy Dorsey 8.	Eddy Duchin 9.	Duke Ellington 10.	Ziggy Elman 11.	Shep Fields 12.	Jan Garber 13.	Benny Goodman 14.	Erskin Hawkins 15.	Fletcher Henderson 16.	Woody Herman 17.	Harry James 18.	Isham Jones 19.	Louis Jordan 20.	Sammy Kaye 21.	Kay Kyser 22.	Guy Lombardo 23.	Johnny Long 24.	Jimmy Lunceford 25.	Glenn Miller 26.	Vaughn Monroe 27.	Russ Morgan 28.	Red Nichols 29.	Ray Noble 30.	King Oliver 31.	Tony Pastor 32.	Ben Pollack 33.	Buddy Rich 34.	Nelson Riddle 35.	Artie Shaw 36.	Jack Teagarden 37.	Tommy Tucker 38.	Fred Waring 39.	Chick Webb 40.	Ted Weems 41.	Paul Whiteman 42.	Si Zentner NEW NAMES TO ADD?? 43.	Ray Anthony  b.1922 44.	Jan August  1904-1976 45.	Charlie Barnet  1913-1991 46.	Blue Barron  1913-2005 47.	Will Bradley  1912-1982 48.	Les Brown  1912-2001 49.	Frankie Carle 1903-2001 50.	Benny Carter  1907-2003 51..	Carmen Cavallaro  1913-1989 52.	Larry Clinton  1909-1985 53.	Eddie Condon  1905-1973 54.	Bob Crosby  1913-1993 55.	Xavier Cugant  1900-1990 56.	Larry Elgart  1917-1995 57.	Les Elgart b.1922 58.	Bill Finnegan  1928-2008 59.	Ralph Flanigan  1914-1995 60.	Glen Gray  1900-1963 61..	Lionel Hampton  1908-2002 62.	Phil Harris  1904-1995 63.	Coleman Hawkins  1904-1969 64.	Ted Heath  1916-2005 65.	Horace Heidt  1901-1986 66.	Earl Hines  1903-1983 67.	Spike Jones  1911-1965 68.	Hal Kemp  1904-1940 69.	Wayne King  1901-1985 70.	Gene Krupa  1909-1973 71.	Elliot Lawrence  b.1925 72.	Vincent Lopez 73.	Abe Lyman 74.	Wingy Manone 75.	Freddie Martin 76.	Billy May 77.	Clyde McCoy 78.	Hal McIntyre 79.	Ray McKinley 80.	Art Mooney 81.	Buddy Morrow 82.	Gerry Mulligan 83.	Red Norvo 84.	Will Osborne 85.	Teddy Powell 86.	Louis Prima 87.	Boyd Raeburn 88.	Alvino Rey 89.	Stan Rubin 90.	Eddie Sauter 91.	Jan Savitt 92.	Raymond Scott 93.	Bobby Sherwood 94.	Freddie Slack 95.	Mugsy Spanier 96.	Phil Spitalny 97.	Charlie Spivak 98.	Dick Stabile 99.	Claude Thornhill 100.	Fats Waller 101.	Mark Warnow 102.	Teddy Wilsom

Rosemary Sovereign (talk) 14:50, 16 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to List of American big band bandleaders? I'd say go ahead an add them if they're not already included, with a couple of caveats: 1. the subject's article should mention that they actually led a big band, and 2. preferably we would not add red links to the list (or, at least cite a reference to an allmusic biography etc.).  I think we might end up with a very long list, as many musicians who are not normally associated with big bands have led a big band at one time or another.  But maybe we can worry about burning that bridge when we get to it. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:37, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. 1.)Yes, I'm referring to the List of American Big Band Leaders. 2.)I don't believe there are many musicians normally associated with big bands who have not led a big band. There are some jazz musicians or 'sidemen'who led a big band for short periods typically late in the big band era. Rosemary Sovereign (talk) 17:45, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if we meant the same thing: Jimmy Heath, for example, has led big bands, but I don't believe he's normally associated with big bands the way that, for example, Cab Calloway or Benny Goodman are known as big band leaders. Same with John Coltrane (Africa/Brass), Anthony Braxton, Edward Vesala: they have all led big bands (or "large ensembles"), should we include them? I would lean toward inclusion, while being mindful that the list could grow quite long. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 18:19, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Joe Davis (music producer)
Hello, I couldn't find the box for new articles → Joe Davis (music producer).--Freimut Bahlo (talk) 06:17, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

New article
I've just written an article about Annie Ross' song "Twisted. While I know a bit about jazz, I'm by no means and expert, so could somebody with more knowledge about the genre check out the article? Thanks! Graham 87 13:02, 23 December 2011 (UTC)