Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jazz/Archives/2014 1

Discussion at WP:BLPN#Roy Campbell, Jr.
You are invited to join the discussion at WP:BLPN. Gyrofrog (talk) 20:10, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

New discussion regarding Genre in the infobox
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music. Gyrofrog (talk) 16:32, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Changes regarding Jazzbox template
You are invited to join the discussion at Template talk:Jazzbox. Gyrofrog (talk) 17:15, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Move request
Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Yoshihide Ōtomo, regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, Michitaro (talk) 01:10, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Good Article reviewers?
There are four articles on jazz pianists that have been nominated to be Good articles. Whether or not they become listed as good articles depends on the person who reviews them, applying the good article criteria.

All nominees get reviewed eventually, but it would be nice to have them reviewed by people who are reasonably well informed about the subject, hence my posting here. The four nominated (by me) are: Jaki Byard, Mulgrew Miller, Bobby Timmons and Wynton Kelly. If interested, there is lots of information on the procedure at Good articles. EddieHugh (talk) 15:05, 21 January 2014 (UTC)


 * There's now a quintet of pianists, as Elmo Hope has been nominated. The album Songs of Experience also awaits a reviewer. EddieHugh (talk) 16:48, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Discographies
Can we standardize the sideman section for jazz musicians??? See Elvin Jones. Cosprings (talk) 18:30, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You may want to bring this up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Discographies/style because WP:DISCOGS doesn't address sideman appearances (which I guess is why you've brought it up here). MOS:WORKS doesn't address it, either, but they do give   as the format; this suggests that you ought to place the columns in that order, but (for sidemen appearances) it doesn't specify where to place the "Leader" column and I think (in this context) that it's too important for "Notes."  On the other hand, they end up saying "The exact format chosen will depend on the discography and the amount of verifiable information available, which may vary greatly between musical acts. In all cases, the format should follow from what's best for the article, and not vice versa."  For the "As leader" table, I like how you've included "Personnel" though in this case I do wonder if it should be the last column (where "Notes" would be in the MOS example). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 15:45, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

 * Articles for deletion/Jazz Loft Project AllyD (talk) 19:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

AfC submission - 13/05
Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Australian Jazz Quartet/Quintet. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:19, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

 * Articles_for_deletion/Fusion_(music). AllyD (talk) 12:01, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Help please?
I have started a draft for Charles Lloyd's album "Geeta" here. Would anyone like to help? Eman 235 / talk 02:05, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I recently submitted it for review. Help is still welcome! Eman 235 / talk  23:09, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I've added a bit and improved the formatting of the refs. Finding more info online seems difficult. EddieHugh (talk) 21:28, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Categories for deletion

 * Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 12
 * Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 21

--Λeternus (talk) 16:59, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Category for discussion

 * Categories for discussion/Log/2014 June 25 --Λeternus (talk) 08:40, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The 100 jazz albums that shook the world - single list, does it merit existence?
I'm not familiar with Jazzwise magazine but does the list The 100 jazz albums that shook the world merit its own article? I don't see the encyclopedic value of listing verbatim what amounts to one magazine's perspective. More importantly, is there significant, secondary coverage of the list that can demonstrate notability?--Animalparty-- (talk) 05:41, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There have previously been articles on particular publications' lists, but these fall foul of IPR issues. See Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Core_Collection_albums_in_The_Penguin_Guide_to_Jazz and Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_Crown_albums_in_The_Penguin_Guide_to_Jazz. The same issue should probably be applied to this new list. AllyD (talk) 06:05, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:A Great Day in Harlem (picture)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:A Great Day in Harlem (picture). What is the actual name of this photograph (if, indeed, it has a name)? Thanks. Gyrofrog (talk) 15:38, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Portal:Jazz
I just did minimal work on this portal to make it of any use to readers. i will try to add a portal link to the articles of top importance. it gets less than 20 hits per day, but its barely linked to except from talk pages. please add some pictures, if i dont. lots of portals were developed since 2007 and are really defunct, which is sad, as readers will go there and find nothing to interest them.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 06:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Finished making this an effective portal, adding music files, DYK's, and expanded list of pictures articles and biographies. I dont know how well this is linked to from articles, that would be the next step.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 15:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

 * Articles for deletion/Robert Ricci. AllyD (talk) 07:30, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/John W. Coltrane Cultural Society. AllyD (talk) 06:25, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Chamber jazz AllyD (talk) 20:24, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Comment on the WikiProject X proposal
Hello there! As you may already know, most WikiProjects here on Wikipedia struggle to stay active after they've been founded. I believe there is a lot of potential for WikiProjects to facilitate collaboration across subject areas, so I have submitted a grant proposal with the Wikimedia Foundation for the "WikiProject X" project. WikiProject X will study what makes WikiProjects succeed in retaining editors and then design a prototype WikiProject system that will recruit contributors to WikiProjects and help them run effectively. Please review the proposal here and leave feedback. If you have any questions, you can ask on the proposal page or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you for your time! (Also, sorry about the posting mistake earlier. If someone already moved my message to the talk page, feel free to remove this posting.) Harej (talk) 22:47, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

New draft
Heads up, new Joe Henderson album draft @ Draft:If You're Not Part of the Solution, You're Part of the Problem. Eman 235 / talk 05:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

And another: Draft:Down Home (Zoot Sims album). Obliged if you'd look it up in the Penguin guide, which you seem to have. Eman 235 / talk 08:41, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Done. I think that you've demonstrated that you know the basics, so you could just bypass the draft and review system and throw the article out into the world yourself. Wait until your earlier one is approved if you prefer. EddieHugh (talk) 21:25, 22 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yah, was thinking of that. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eman235 (talk • contribs) 21:55, 22 October 2014

Interlingual cleaning cooperation
Hi to everyone. I'm an italian Wikipedia user and I was presenting some pages to the standard deletion's process, including the italian version of this one. As you can see, the page is but a translation of the italian one (in fact it is an italian duo), which I don't find notable enough; the minimum requirements aren't fulfilled. I suggest you to do the same thing, or at list to discuss about that page. --La Nuova Idea (mia) (talk) 22:59, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Jazz Dance Category
There are a few confused articles floating around in the Jazz category looking for a "Jazz Dance" subcategory. Should it be under Jazz or Dance? And how would I create it once consensus is reached?

Background for those unfamiliar with the style: jazz dance is usually performed to jazz-related (but almost always rhythmically predictable) music; originated in American vernacular dance forms closely associated with jazz music (the Black Bottom, the Charleston); and is associated with Broadway productions. FourViolas (talk) 04:06, 4 November 2014 (UTC)


 * Dance. Jazz is music; dance would be something associated with (some of) it. A jazz-influenced book / film / etc. would be listed as book / film / etc., not as jazz. The same applies to 'jazz dance'. EddieHugh (talk) 10:44, 4 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The jazz dance article is currently within Category:Contemporary dance, Category:Dances, Category:Jazz culture, and Category:Musical theatre. I'd suggest simply creating Category:Jazz dance as a subcategory of these, and placing jazz dance (and the other articles in question) within that.  I could go either way on leaving the new category within Category:Jazz culture -- it may not have much relation to jazz today, but surely it was called "jazz dance" for a reason.  If any articles within Category:Jazz dance are more directly related to jazz, then place those specific articles in a relevant category. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 14:05, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Jason Moran
I wanted to update Jason Moran, and found out that was a lot to do. Being a bit wary of critics' words, the article came out chronological to the extreme. Now I try breaking it down in a more readable thematic way: long term, well known, obligations first, then small works. See User:Danny lost/JM thematic. Which do you think is better, and any comments? trespassers william (talk) 02:49, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I prefer the chronological: it's much easier to follow, as there's a sense of flow and continuity. Organising thematically may work for readers who already know the people and projects involved, but a heading such as "In My Mind" tells the typical reader nothing, so will be off-putting.
 * One difficulty in writing pages for contemporary jazz musicians is that they tend to have multiple 'projects' going on simultaneously, whereas for musicians further in the past it was easy to summarise periods, as players would be part of a band and would be hired and fired, be based in one part of the country for years, and so on. One way to adapt to this is to incorporate a bit of a commentary into the chronology-based text. I did this with Brad Mehldau: e.g., "Mehldau became established on the international jazz festival scene in the mid- to late 1990s", "While trio performances and recordings continued, Mehldau began in the early to mid-2000s to broaden the musical settings in which he appeared as leader", "Mehldau continued to expand beyond trio and solo playing". Ideally, these should be sourced.
 * I'd suggest building up all of the info you can find, putting it in chronological order, then sorting through it so that it can be presented in a way that makes most sense to the reader. From Mehldau, again, the periods are not just 90s, 00s, etc., but 1991–98, 1999–2004 and 2005–present, largely because they matched periods in his career (first solo album, change of trio drummer and work on broader projects). After that, linking with (non- or minimal editorializing) commentary can be done. EddieHugh (talk) 15:22, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Japanese pianists page and gender bias
I was extremely surprised to "discover" that, out of 18 jazz pianists of note in Japan, only 4 or 5 are of the masculine persuasion. I was looking for a famous composer/pianist (who often plays in France, Portugal, and which work is studied inter alia in Portuguese music schools, a man who is truly a celebrity but which name escaped me) and basically all found was a bunch of good looking and very young female pianists. This seems to be a statistical improbability. Factor in the underrepresentation of women in the music scene during the golden age of jazz, big bands and the post- WWII introduction of the style in Japan, and it reeks of bias. For once that my own sex is underrated, I decided to bring up the issue, to see whether fair is fair or gender is a feminist thing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.136.75.175 (talk) 22:12, 8 December 2014 (UTC) Post scriptum: I found the musician I was looking for. I shall quote from the UK daily The Guardian at http://www.theguardian.com/music/2007/dec/06/jazz: "Yutaka Shiina, the 43-year-old jazz pianist from Tokyo, is on a short UK tour as co-leader of a coolly authoritative bebop band with the British trumpeter Damon Brown. Shiina has recorded as a leader with the Marsalisites Herlin Riley, Roy Hargrove and Nicholas Payton, and capped his acceptance as a world-stage contender by working with the late Elvin Jones in Jazz Machine". I am sure the ladies mentioned in the pages are very worthy and talented, but I find it hard to swallow that people who are knowledgeable enough to be aware of so many female musicians of much lesser note, don't know about so accomplished a male composer as Mr Shiina.
 * I assume that you're referring to the list at the "Category:Japanese jazz pianists" page. I count 6 men out of 18. There are more men (and women) who could / should be included. Part of the difficulty lies in getting English-language source material. Specifically on your suggestion of gender bias: if there is one, it is probably in the nature of the promotion of Japanese jazz musicians, rather than in Wikipedia. Japanese jazz labels often promote young(ish) female jazz musicians heavily, recording them frequently, putting out special edition CDs and DVDs... often for a few years, before casting them aside and moving on to the next ones.
 * You've motivated me to create an article on Satoh Masahiko, who really should have an article, so thanks. EddieHugh (talk) 23:10, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Articles for deletion

 * Articles for deletion/Koto Jazz. AllyD (talk) 13:08, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Juice Wilson. AllyD (talk) 08:43, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/Nick Catalano. AllyD (talk) 11:36, 25 December 2014 (UTC)