Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Journalism/Archive 1

Gudelines for a new WikiProject
To do
 * Note -- these items were initially on the Project page, but I've moved them here to just below the Project's "todo" list.'


 * Identify pages within the scope of your project:
 * A good way to do this is to copy the listings of Special:Whatlinkshere for the most important articles related to your project.
 * You will probably want to save a copy of the list on a project status subpage.


 * Create a project to-do list to focus and coordinate your collaborative efforts. Done see, to-do list.Calicocat 06:52, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Link to a sample article to give other Wikipedians a feel for the project's goals.
 * Advertise! Create a project notice template, and insert it into the talk page of related articles.
 * Background on Projects, see -- Policies for handling controversial projects...The issue is currently being discussed in Wikiproject/Inappropriate_projects.


 * WikiProject basics
 * Suggestions for new projects


 * 1) Read Wikiproject Best practices for tips on leading a WikiProject.
 * 2) Create the main project page at Wikipedia:WikiProject (project name).
 * 3) Create an outline on your project page:
 * 4) Add into your main project page and save. (See m:Help:Template for details.)
 * 5)  Identify pages within the scope of your project:
 * 6) A good way to do this is to copy the listings of Special:Whatlinkshere for the most important articles related to your project.
 * 7) You will probably want to save a copy of the list on a project status subpage.
 * 8) Create a project  to-do list to focus and coordinate your collaborative efforts.
 * 9) If possible, link to a sample article to give other Wikipedians a feel for the project's goals.
 * 10) Advertise!
 * 11) * Create a project notice template, and insert it into the talk page of related articles.

Policies for handling controversial projects The issue is currently being discussed inWikiproject/Inappropriate_projects.

Advertising project
It is advised that editors advertise the project to get more people involved with it. One suggested method is to place a notice on the "talk" pages within those articles of relevance to the project. I'd suggest we develop a template that could be used for a consistent and easy to place notice, but I'm not skilled at creating templates. Suggested language would be, "Please join the editors working on WikiProject_Journalism, an on going project to improve all articles dealing with print and electronic journalism." Any help on this is appreciated. See todo list item number three, above. Calicocat 19:36, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Article titles and scope
My view:
 * 1) "Business of journalism" would cover topics such as the advertising that pays for journalism, circulation, layoffs, pay, unions.
 * 2) "Communications" or "mass communications fill-in-the-blank" could include journalism as well advertising, marketing, public relations, talk shows, whatever.
 * 3) "Mass media" includes broadcasting, digital media, most publications (serious, entertainment or whatever), movies, music.
 * 4) "News industry" is fairly broad, but perhaps not as broad as the current "news trade" article. It would essentially combine journalism and the business of journalism (as outlined above).
 * 5) The current "news trade" article is a bit boggling to me. I don't understand why those elements are put together in one article. Maurreen 05:40, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Fist, I've never commented on a Wikiproject page, so I hope I'm on the right track. I'll follow Maurreen's example and offer some views as well, but a "project" is new for me: Business of Journalism -- sounds OK in terms of Wikipedia names. I'd worry it gets confused with Business News or Business Jnrlsm covering business and industry -- Wall Street Journal, Baron's and the like in all media, which is way I suggest "News Industry" which is in rather wide and established usage already. for the purposes of a "text book" on Journalism, "The Business of Journalism" would work avoiding what might sound more like jargon, "News industry." Journalism business also works and maintains normative parallelism in the topics..."news industry" on 2nd references is fine within articles, etc. It would be cool if the word Journalism did not have to be obsessively repeated for each heading, I'm not sure how this works with regard to a project...so you could say, "Business" and know it wasn't a genre, "Business news" for example.Calicocat 07:28, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) News Industry is a topic for all things economic related to the news business -- print, radio, TV. As such it is about things like --circulation figures, advertising rates and revenues, market share and ratings, profit and loss in media operations, mergers and acquisitions, FCC regulation (U.S.), deregulation, legislative issues of ownership. The focus is on the business side.  Staff, union, freelance costs. Advertising and PR for outlets themselves. This is part of the larger universe known as Media economics. "news industry" is also used generically at times, but in the main, it deals with the business side of journalism, distinct from reporting.
 * 1) Mass media is the large container, a blanket term taking into account, TV, radio and print of on the large scale, however, however, even the small stars are part of the large Mass Media universe, but mostly, Mass Media deals with the largest organizations, the network TV, large circ. newspapers/magainze, syndicated radio. Journalism is part of Mass Media
 * 2) News Trade is a cool start for an editorial, but I think it's a nonstandard term and should not be included as if it's an established term. WP is not for editorializing, blogging, bandwagoning, original research.
 * 3) Journalism Genres, would deal with the various kinds of journalism and news, from "man bites dog" to the Nonfiction journalism of, say, Joyce Carol Oates. Many entries are possible
 * 4) media economics is a top level heading of which "news industry" or Business of Jnrlsm. is part
 * I think "Business of journalism" is either misleading or too broadly defined - it should either be "media business" or somesuch, or if it remains as "business of journalism" it should not cover advertising and other commercial aspects of media which have nothing directly to do with journalism. Incidentally, here in the UK "news trade" is used to refer to the retail end of newspaper and magazine distribution. Barnabypage 14:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Articles in scope of project, part II
I realize that my comments above were not reflective of an understanding of what a Project is, Now I think I'm getting a better idea of what we're doing here, so I stared a new section to better discuss the Project's scope in the light of better understanding of what this is all about. Calicocat 06:34, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

This project's scope seems rather broad at present covering articles related to the -- technical, stylistic, creative, economic/business, ethical, content, influences and history -- of print and electronic journalism. I have no objection to a broadly based project and think it's needed as those articles related to journalism and media could use a good going over. Calicocat 06:34, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

VFDs and merges: propaganda, public relations, etc.
I'm open. Other than Propaganda and Public relations, what related topics deserve their own articles? Maurreen 3 July 2005 22:02 (UTC)

I was just looking over the project and it seems the best thing would be to follow the guidelines on getting the various lists of articles and so on going, doing that will ferret out the what's not needed and bring us more clarity to the project's subject. Calicocat 4 July 2005 05:01 (UTC)


 * OK, that's a good idea. Maurreen 4 July 2005 14:26 (UTC)


 * I had already started List of journalism articles, but I'm not sure whether it should be in purely alphabetical order or categorized. Maurreen 4 July 2005 14:44 (UTC)


 * I like the List of journalism articles and think alphabetical order is best being the least likely to seem to be pushing any kind of POV. In terms of the overall project we might eventually develop some alternative views on the information. I'm not sure how that would work, but, again, I think if we do the project good ideas will come up as we work on it together. Calicocat 4 July 2005 23:06 (UTC)

TOC
Do you mind if we put the TOC at the top? Maurreen 4 July 2005 14:36 (UTC)


 * That seems logical.Calicocat 4 July 2005 23:50 (UTC)

Areas that need attention
Please feel free to edit this list as needed. This list is in no particular order. Maurreen


 * 1) Above the fold is probably not expandable. Could be VFD or redirect.
 * Category:News trade stubs needs to be changed to Category:Journalism stubs.
 * 1) Undue emphasis on:
 * 2) Confidential sourcing
 * 3) More material needed on:
 * 4) Visual journalism
 * 5) Broadcast journalism?
 * 6) Merge Conservative bias and Liberal bias into Media bias. Refactor Media bias to accomodate new dump-merge from subtopics. (SV)
 * I really disagree with this action. Merging articles is not just doing a cut/paste and then blanking out the previous article. We first need to define the scope of the articles that currently exist, we need to get more editors involved in the project by advertising it on the talk pages of articles within the scope of the project. Only after that can the project move to bringing some greater order to this universe of articles with judicious and agreed upon mergers, VfDs and maybe some move/renames, if not whole new articles or major reworking of existing articles. Can you put these articles back to their previsou state until such time as we're all on the same page? Calicocat 06:04, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Please see the "todo" list at the top and lets keep on track wtih that. We're jumping the gun. We need that advertising template. Calicocat 05:59, 12 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Online journalism is listed as needing cleanup.

Done
Overhauled News media -- now consists of introductions to various types of media.

organizing project
I was thinking I'd like to do a refactoring (is that the right word?)of Journalism project. When I created the Media project, the system generated a long, complex table of contents. I looked that over and think our Journalism project should have that as well and then we can discuss and build the relationships between our project and others thereby calling upon various experts in other fields to help us with questions that may arise in the course of the project, and we too, might be of help to other projects from time to time by providing an ouside view. Here's the method I would use: Protect all existing content and comments as they currently exist in an external editor. Delete all text in existing project Cut in to the Journalism project "shell" all of the "new" table of contents and sections (all blank) Restore all content from protected external files Resave Journalism Project Archive some initial tentative comments of mine on first reviewing the porject page.
 * 1) Start a "fake project" just to get the templates going fresh.(I don't think the page would actually have to be created, or if it does, he can be put up for a speedy delete once the job is finished).

I'll post this to the project discussion page as well. Calicocat 00:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't entirely understand that, but I don't object to it. Maurreen (talk) 04:41, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I think I took the extra long way around to say that I wanted to add some things back from a standard project model, even if they were still blank. Strike the above above, I'll do it the easy way... which is also the better way... Calicocat 05:03, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Categories
Someone has proposed Category:Journalism and a few related categories for deletion or merging. Maurreen (talk) 00:42, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Articles for the Wikipedia 1.0 project
Hi, I'm a member of the Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-Class and good B-Class articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any articles on journalism. Please post your suggestions here. Cheers!--Shanel 06:09, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Style guidelines for articles about specific newspapers
we/I thought this to be a logical place to ask ... are there presently guidelines for content and organization of articles on specific newspapers? User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 01:25, 1 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps look at a major article like The New York Times and use that. Thats it. N.B. what do You mean with "specific newspapers"? feydey 00:09, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I was distinguishing 'specific newspapers' from more general concepts like 'classes of news media' or 'news organizations'; it seems this WikiProject is looking more at journalism as a discipline than the artifacts of the journalistic trade, yes? User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 19:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No, just no one hasn't done any guidelines for this yet. feydey 01:32, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I based that assertion on the 98 articles listed on the Project page, where there are a couple of news artifacts (Arizona Republic for instance) but they are certainly in the minority. User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 01:57, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Hello project members! I'm not at all familiar with project collaboration, but before I knew of this effort I struck out on my own to enhance articles relating to journalism artifacts and/or specific newspapers. My thinking was that because most newspapers are fairly regional in scope, there has been very little standardization among their articles, and hence attempts to describe basic information often results in poor writing. I've tried to gently nudge towards correcting this somewhat, mostly with maintenance and formatting type edits (read: infoboxen, categories, stubs, markup, etc.) rather than prose or copy writing. In other words, I'm basically a human who edits as a very capable bot. I have a few questions about this, though I'm not entirely sure that they're relevant to this project.
 * Should all previous names of publications be treated as synonyms and therefore bolded at the first appearance in the text, per the MoS? (See The Palm Beach Post for an example.) I'd argue in favor of this, since the old names often redirect to the current titles. However, because modern newspapers are frequently the result of several mergers over the years, previous names can be very numerous, and I see why some might be opposed to the bold text clutter this can produce.
 * Should JournProjectArticles be added to most publication talk pages? Nehrams2020 previously (August 2006) posed this question below with no response. Most of these articles will also be part of local projects, as in The Arizona Republic, which is part of WikiProject Arizona.
 * Should ISSN-needed be added to most newspaper talk pages where there is no ISSN in the corresponding article?
 * Does anyone know what threshhold, if any, exists before a publication is assigned an ISSN? Somehow I doubt that independently published 'zines and even several smallish alt weeklies are assigned ISSNs, but I really don't know.
 * How does one join the project?
 * I also might be interested in working on guidelines if anyone can provide input or recommend a good example to follow. Any help, suggestions, or input regarding these questions or any of my previous edits are welcome. -Tobogganoggin talk 23:17, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I will answer all your question in order:
 * 1)  I personally think that all previous names should be bolded and put in the articles even if some consider them to clutter the page.
 * 2)  JournProjectArticles should be added to all journalism related articles. Don't hold back.
 * 3)  An ISSN-needed tag helps to point out where an ISSN is needed so the only reason not to use it is if it diminishes from the look of Wikipedia and the article. Some people have a low threshold for use of tags especially on nicer or more popular articles and call excessive use of tags "tag vandalism".
 * 4)  Every published work has an ISSN or equivalent as far as I am aware of. My chemistry book has an ISBN instead for example.
 * 5)  All you have to do to sign-up is go to the main project page where the participants are listed and put # ~ at the bottom of the subsection.

The best way to create a guidline would be to create an ideal article, put a subsection on the project page titled ideal article, and link to it. This way people have an example to look at which is more useful then a bunch of rules. The listed Good Articles on the project page would be the best since they have already been verified to be high quality. If you can get an article to Featured status then that would be the best ideal article. --Jorfer 01:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Great, thanks! I never expected such a prompt reply. -Tobogganoggin talk 02:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * After months of editing newspaper articles, I decided to put my editing philosophy in words. So I'm throwing it to the wolves as a proposed set of guidelines for newspaper articles -- see User:Wiki Wistah/Newspaper articles (or WP:NART). Tear it apart, guys. ``` W i k i W i s t a h W a s s a p 06:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Notable reporters
I don't know if members of this project have developed rules of thumb for articles about journalists. It'd be helpful for all of us if there were guidelines. I'm thinking in particular of one biography which reads more like a resume. Now I think that Larisa Alexandrovna is a fine journalist, from what I've read of her work. But even so the article seems too detailed, and the selection of "notable quotations" is subjective at best. Could project members take a look. -Will Beback 06:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Is some section of this project coordinating category pages such as the "New York Times People" page? I don't see a more general category for "Journalists" or smaller categories like "Newspaper Journalists," "Broadcast Journalists." For instance, the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_correspondant has a section listing "Notable" individuals.

WikiProject banner template
Hi, I heard you don't have an active WikiProject banner template, read below from the current template's talk page:


 * I'm being bold here (and not even part of your WikiProject), but if a WikiProject banner template is what you need, try this:

Simpler, standardized code, and it even has a picture of Edward R. Murrow!

--Geopgeop 08:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC) (Geopgeop 08:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC))


 * I think it looks great and thanks for doing it. Calicocat 10:03, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I added another suggestion to the talk page. feydey 21:19, 5 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, that works, go ahead with that. --Geopgeop 07:41, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Would it be a good idea to add this template to articles about newspapers on its talk page? I have come across several newspapers that have no WikiProject banners, and I figured this would be the best one. If the members of this project agree, I could begin putting your banner on those pages as I come across them. Please leave me a message on my talk page to let me know. Thanks. --Nehrams2020 06:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

List of articles
We have a long list of articles in this project page, and many of them redirect to other articles. Would it not make sense to mark in this list the articles that redirect, and to which artile each redirects? Gladmax 01:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Project Directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council is currently in the process of developing a master directory of the existing WikiProjects to replace and update the existing WikiProject Council/Directory. These WikiProjects are of vital importance in helping wikipedia achieve its goal of becoming truly encyclopedic. Please review the following pages:
 * User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Culture Directory 2,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Philosophy and religion Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Sports Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory,
 * User:Badbilltucker/Geographical Directory/United States, (note: This page will be retitled to more accurately reflect its contents)
 * User:Badbilltucker/History and society directory, and
 * User:Badbilltucker/Science directory

and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope to have the existing directory replaced by the updated and corrected version of the directory above by November 1. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 22:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry if you tried to update it before, and the corrections were gone. I have now moved the new draft in the old directory pages, so the links should work better. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused you. B2T2 14:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Music magazine
If anyone has the time and the inclination, music magazine could really use some love. It was rightly nominated for deletion because, in its current form, it's nothing resembling an article. Still, the subject deserves a well-written article. Thanks. Stilgar135 23:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Stablepedia
Beginning cross-post.
 * See Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team. If you wish to comment, please comment there. ★ MESSED  ROCKER ★  03:17, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

''End cross-post. Please do not comment more in this section.''

Wikipedia Day Awards
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)