Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism/Archive 7

Input on Ten Lost Tribes needed
Hi everyone: Please see Lost Ten Tribes and Talk:Lost Ten Tribes as to how this article should be presented. This is how I recently found it:. I then edited it to this:. Another user then changed it to this:. Finally, I edited it to this: which is where it essentially stands, awaiting more input. Your suggestions would help, the topic is important. Thank you. IZAK 07:17, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Anti-Bible template by Cheese dreams
Please note that User:Cheese dreams has arbitrarily created a new anti-Bible template see Template:BPOV that reads: "The neutrality of this article is disputed. It is alleged that this article currently assumes the accuracy of, or concentrates only on the account according to, the Bible. A more critical interpretation, or alternate account, may exist and should be incorporated if it does." . It is being placed Hebrew Bible pages and topics without any discussions or reasons in the TALK pages of Biblical articles. This behavior is highly abusive and needs a response. IZAK 14:10, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Jewish music needs some attention
The article in general needs some cleanup, but particularly the last sentence of the first paragraph, which is incomplete. --Improv 03:23, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Parashah chart
Hi. I have created a chart for Torah, Haftarah, and Megillah readings for the whole year. I created the chart for my own personal purposes (at my user page), but perhaps contributors at this project might want to use it!

It can be found at: User:Zabek/Parashah_chart.

I am not so good with the asthetic part of table making (colors, etc.), so perhaps if it is used here people can improve upon it. My the initial technical work is all done. Zabek 05:41, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * Dear Zabek: Wonderful job, it should have its space on Wikipedia, however, there is already a page at Parsha, and you should try to add yours there and somehow combine the two. All the best! IZAK 08:56, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * It looks good to me. I would like to see the Hebrew still kept if you upgrade my work. By the way, I am not sure that Wikipedia is the place for such detailed information (even sound files) of the parshiot. It seems Chabad or Aish would be more appropriate. But this is just my opinion. --YUL89YYZ 17:04, Feb 4, 2005 (UTC)


 * In principle, it could be the place for information about this, because WP is developing detailed topical encyclopedias on a variety of topics; Judaism can be one too. Nevertheless, I agree with you that in practice it would be hard to delevope stuff like this in WP. If you look at the links on my user page, you will see that this is being developed as a limited demo for a separate wiki project on its own website, and with somewhat different policies than WP. The reason I mentioned it here is so that if it can be useful it can be used here too. If not, that's OK too. Zabek 15:19, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

Elijah ben Solomon
Hi, I've nominated moving Elijah ben Solomon to Vilna Gaon in accordance with Naming conventions (common names). Please put your input on Requested moves. Thanks.--Pharos 21:25, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Recommendation to redo Kaddish article
Anyone who's interested in upgrading the Kaddish article, please review and respond to my recommendation on the newly created Discussion page there. TShilo12 08:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

RK
The Arbitration Committee is hearing a case by RK, who is seeking a revocation of a one-year ban on editing Judaism-related articles. We want opinions from users who regularly edit pages with RK. Any comments are welcome at Requests for arbitration/RK 2/Proposed decision. Alternatively, if you wish to communicate with us privately, email one of the Arbitrators and we will keep it private. Warm regards --Neutralitytalk 05:00, Feb 20, 2005 (UTC) (on behalf of the Arbitration Committee)

New article on astrology
Many Jewish authorities had views on astrology, especially Maimonides, but there is no systematic discussion on this issue. I thus am working on a new article, Jewish views on Astrology. My current sources include the Talmud (I own the Soncino version); the Jewish Encyclopedia, The Encyclopedia Judaica, the collected works of Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan, among many others. I have now written text that includes the basis of Jewish views of astrology, based on mitzvot in the Torah, and it discusses the various ways in which these mitzvot have been interpreted. I then summarize the views of Nahmanides, Maimonides and Gersonides, and offer brief views from Reform and Conservative Jews, and from two Orthodox rabbis who have written on this issue, Rabbis Barry Freundel and Nachum Amsel. I will create the new article later tonight, and I hope we can bring in more sourced material and discussions. RK

To parallel this, we should begin a stub on Christian views of astrology, and Muslim views of Astrology, which other people can later flesh out. (Hopefully, with sources.) I do know that astrology has been popular in many Christian communities over the past 2,000 years, and as such deserves serious discussion. (At the moment, I have no idea how astrology has been received in the Islamic world.) RK 18:15, Mar 2, 2005 (UTC)

Joining this project
How do I join this project?--Eliezer 23:57, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Same way as any other WikiProject: Read all about it on the project page and auxiliary pages, and help out. You can add your name to the list of participants (on the main project page).  &mdash;msh210 18:25, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jews in Tunisia in danger of deletion
In case anyone hasn't noticed, Votes for deletion/Jews in Tunisia, nearing completion, has no strong consensus. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:58, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

Josel of Rosheim
I recently added to this article miscellaneous information drawn from the German Wikipedia. The two articles were differently organized (and the English is now by far the more comprehensive).

The angle of the article has shifted (a little) in bringing in the German-language material; others may want to review; also, it wouldn't surprise me if there are good sources available that would allow expansion on one aspect that is alluded to several times but never fleshed out: his role as a merchant and moneylender. My guess is that there were times he was instrumental in the finances of the Empire, but we really never spell that out. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:15, Mar 21, 2005 (UTC)

Babel
Babel is a project designed to identify those who nkow languages other than English so they can be contacted if needed. See there for more details. See there also if you wish to sign yourself up as knowing, e.g., Hebrew, Jewish Babylonian Aramaic, Yiddish, or any other language listed, or to add one. Discuss Wikipedia:Babel at its talk page; discuss this post below, of course.  &mdash;msh210 18:14, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Similar remarks apply to Translators available. I'm not sure why this new thing was added... -- Jmabel | Talk 06:00, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)

Bug affecting Niqqud
People here may have noticed that niqqud no longer works properly on Wikipedia. Actually, there is currently a serious bug affecting niqqud in all Wikimedia projects. See Niqqud for a discussion of the problem in English, and click the language link in the sidebar for an extensive analysis of the problem in Hebrew. Please join us to help find a solution to the bug! (unsigned, User:Dovi 18 April 2005)

Hebrew Wikipedia reaches 20,000!
Mazal Tov!

Those who work on this project will be interested in knowing that a very serious, high-quality encyclopedia is developing. It includes a huge amount on Judaism and Israel.

By my own unscientific estimate, Judaica content has roughly caught up now with en:, and will surpass it in the near future. Make use of the material there for Wikiproject Judaism, and create links whenever possible! Dovi 17:29, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Jewish exegesis
So, I have an article idea, which at present is located at User:TShilo12/Peirush. Please feel free to contribute or to comment. -Tomer TALK 05:42, Jun 12, 2005 (UTC)

Brisker Rav
I wikified the page on the Brisker Rav. Does anyone have date of birth and death for him, and perhaps some bibliography? JFW | T@lk  11:47, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


 * nice article :) Fintor 14:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

Gracias. The content was there, it just had to be formatted and linked. Extensive Googling did not lead me to his vital statistics. JFW | T@lk  15:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Done :) Fintor 13:00, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Divine Providence
Hi all. Please see the article on Divine Providence which I wrote yesterday -- I'm not sure that the level is appropriate. Thanks Fintor 14:23, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


 * I'll have a look. JFW | T@lk  15:57, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

The article is great! What are you concerned about? JFW | T@lk  16:03, 15 July 2005 (UTC)


 * not a bit over-written? Fintor 13:01, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

A thorny VFD
Votes for deletion/Talmidaism JFW | T@lk  16:02, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

TFD on Judaism-Attention
Someone nominated the Judaism-Attention template for deletion, but did not seem to bother to inform the community to which it belongs. So I am doing that now.

Comment/Vote at: Templates for deletion

Dragons flight 06:21, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Yiddish Wikipedia
Some of you (even non-Yiddish speakers) might be interested in my half-baked plan to revitalize the moribund (only 121 articles) Yiddish Wikipedia. Please see my idea at Talk:Yiddish_language, and thanks.--Pharos 05:23, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation of Betar / Beitar
I have never created a disambiguation page before, so I wanted some advice/opinions. There are at least three uses of the name Betar:
 * 1) fortress of Bar Kochba revolt fame
 * 2) Zionist youth movement
 * 3) Beitar Jerusalem Football Club (and, it seems, other sports clubs)

The current page is meaning #2. No current page exists for #1, but there is plenty of information at least for a stub for now.

Should I make Betar:
 * 1) a disambiguation page with links to Betar (fortress), Betar (youth movement) and Beitar Jerusalem FC
 * 2) about the fortress (one of the namesakes of the movement) and link to Betar (youth movement) and Beitar Jerusalem FC
 * 3) about the youth movement and link to Betar (fortress) and Beitar Jerusalem FC
 * 4) about the fortress and link to Betar (disambiguation)
 * 5) about the youth movement and link to Betar (disambiguation)

Finally, is this the right place to be asking? I thought only the fortress meaning fit into the purpose of this project, if that... But I couldn't find anywhere better to ask.

jnothman talk 06:56, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think choice #4 is the best. --Ezra Wax 14:34, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * On the basis of one vote I wasn't going to shift continents. So I'm leaving the Betar article as the same - referring to Betar (youth movement), having been by far the most common reference before. It is also the first entry on the Hebrew Betar disamibiguation page. --jnothman talk 06:54, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Charedi Judaism Wikiproject
I would like to start a wikiproject on Charedi Judaism. Its purpose would be to make certain that the Charedi viewpoint is properly presented and defended, and to correct articles that are inaccurate in a way that denigrates the Charedi view. I think that it needs a project to do it, and am not certain whether it can be integrated into the Judaism Wikiproject.

A concerted effort should be made to flesh out articles that have only a liberal viewpoint presented. A list of articles that are particularly of interest to Charedim would be presented.

I have found many errors that I wanted to correct, but they are often not trivial and unless there is some sort of project to address them, it seems like a waste of effort to even bother and like I might as well give up on Wikipedia and just live with the fact that it is imperfect. --Ezra Wax 15:06, 1 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I have created the project.--Ezra Wax 17:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * WikiProject Orthodox Judaism

What are you trying to achieve that cannot be done as part of this project? JFW | T@lk  18:04, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree with JFW's sentiments at this stage. What's up Ezra? Don't just shoo-in and shoo-out, say something please. OK? IZAK 06:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Palace of David
We could really use an article on the biblical account of the Palace of David to accompany the article on the new alleged Palace of David site. Thanks.--Pharos 23:44, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

List of Jews
... has appeared on VfD --Defrosted 23:27, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
 * While I'm not in favor of such a list, I seriously doubt that, even if it's deleted, it won't reappear in a new, possibly worse form. I've hashed out my problems, for the most part, with (apparently) the most interested editors currently, and would like, instead of soliciting votes on VFD, to solicit assistance in rewriting the lead to the List, which can later be turned into a Template to go at the top of all the sublists.  Please review the entire (long)  section of the TALK page there, to understand what I'm referring to.  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.  Tomer TALK  08:10, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * I do agree with your idea of splitting the list (by occupational field etc.) and collaboratively creating an introductory template for the sublists. Please realize that I simply posted the above notice for the benefit of any parties who might be interested in viewing the Vfd and considering the implications of removing, retaining, or revising the contents on the page.  Best wishes.--Defrosted 08:48, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * We can be yidn all day, apologizing for perceived accusations of perceived slights. I didn't mean to accuse you of anything.  I just SERIOUSLY think we need to get people involved in refactoring the lead, as SOON as possible, so that it can be templatified, and included in the lists which I'm about to make.  I would like to recommend that the text be put into Template:JewListTop.  Tomer TALK  12:49, August 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * In case anyone missed it, the top text is at Jew list. It still needs work, and should probably be included in the rest of the articles in Category:Lists of Jews.  Tomer TALK  19:23, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Bible and reincarnation
I've been trying to clean-up what is really a POV apology for reincarnation. With regards to Christianity, this article has been tending to use weasel words to suggest a level of support for reincarnation (and an exegetical debate) that does not exist. I also have some concerns about how it represents Jewish beliefs - but I'm too ignorant of modern Jewish eschatology to be sure. I wondered if someone here might cast an eye over it. (If I don't get bold and Vfd the whole damn thing first} --Doc (?) 22:30, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * The section in that article was pretty short; I've made it more accurate now. Thoughts? Jayjg (talk)  23:16, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Great Jewish Revolt title?
Me again, looking for a Jewish perspective. The article on the 66-73 CE war is currently titled Great Jewish Revolt. It has been suggested to me that this is not what it is commonly called. Certainly in New Testament scholarship is most often referred to as simply as the (first?) 'Jewish War'. I've put some comments on the talk page, and would appreciate some feedback. I'm happy for the title to stay, if that's what Jewish scholars call it. --Doc (?) 21:34, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Chaim Ozer Grodzinski
I think this is one of the articles that is sorely missing. He was indisputably the most influential leader of pre-War mitnagdim after the Chofetz Chaim. I have no access to biographical material right now, but Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzinski needs a writeup. JFW | T@lk  19:18, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Jewish biography stub?
I just wrote a quick article on Solomon Riemann, but I couldn't find a good stub category for it. It ended up placing it both in (general) biography and Jewish history. It seems to me that there are probably lots of other articles in this same situation. Shouldn't there be a "Jewish biography stub" template? If so, I could certainly create it, but I don't think I'll be able to come up with a good image for it. &mdash; Nowhither 22:07, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

A note: I suppose this should be brought up on WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals as well. &mdash; Nowhither 23:15, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * What would the scope of this be? Certainly it shouldn't be for just any person who happens to be Jewish?--Pharos 23:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This is a proposal I could get behind, although I think it should be made clear that this stub would be for people whose noteworthiness is because of their Jewishness... So, for example, it would be inappropriate to tag a stub on the CEO of some random company, who happens to be Jewish, with Jewish-bio-stub, but it would be the best way to tag a stub written on, say, Pinchas Peli. My 3¢...  Tomer TALK  23:47, August 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * That's basically what I was thinking, although I think we should also allow people whose nationality is hard to pin down due to moving around. Consider a hypothetical fellow who went from Germany to the U.S. in the 1930s, then to Israel in the 1950s, and died soon thereafter; what's his nationality? It's probably most straightforward to tag him as "Jewish". &mdash; Nowhither 06:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I think for now this should be put on hold to avoid confusion and thus avoiding applying false criteria to famous people who were only Jewish by dint of birth. Over the years, we've had a similar problem with Category:Jewish philosophers where we had to differentiate between Category:Secular Jewish philosophers (those who had basically nothing to do with Judaism as such), and Category:Philosophers of Judaism who identified with Judaism in a strong way, many in fact being rabbis. So I would tread very cautiously with creating any new stub. The general stub of Template:JewHist-stub or Template:Judaism-stub in addition to a general bio-stub should be sufficient for now. IZAK 06:33, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the caveat I already expressed, that the proposed stub should be used only to for people who are noteworthy because of their Jewishness, handles your concerns quite well. Tomer TALK  06:38, August 30, 2005 (UTC)


 * Hmmm ... I sense a not-quite consensus here. I'll go ahead and bring this up on WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals, with the idea that this stub is for those who are either noteworthy because of their Jewishness, or else have no other easily determined nationality. Anyone who opposes this can head over there and argue against it. &mdash; Nowhither 18:40, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. See WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Proposals. I imagine that discussion about this topic should move over there now. &mdash; Nowhither 19:46, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Kraków Ghetto] COTW
Just a note that Kraków Ghetto is this week's COTW. It is a rather poor stub and is very much in need of improvement. - SimonP 01:36, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

New Page: Brit-Dam
Please visit Talk:Brit-dam and add your two-cents.

&mdash; &lt; T A L K JNDRLINE T A L K &gt;     30 August 2005

Nahum
Just wanted to bring your attention to Nahum, which will need to be looked at by someone knowledgable in the subject. --Fang Aili 15:18, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Baphomet's new stub
Perhaps there would be interest in Articles for deletion/God Myth. HKT talk 17:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Kazan et al
This is a bit off-topic but I received the following query from a Tatar editor with whom I've worked on some articles:
 * Hi! Could you start a stub Hebrew edition of Kazan and Tatars articles. Some my friends are studing Hebrew, but thel level of knowlege isn't advanced as well... Please, note, that Semitic 'q' should be used in word 'Qazan'! Thank you, --User:Untifler 13:08, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to help him out but I don't have a Hebrew-typing program and I don't have the knowledge of Unicode necessary to do this efficiently; in any case my knowledge of day-to-day conversational Hebrew will probably not help much in a scholarly encyclopedia piece. Would anyone interested in helping out and/or do you know anyone who would be interested? --Briangotts (talk) 20:35, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

List of minor Biblical figures
Greetings. In response to the outcome of Articles for deletion/Uel, I've started a List of minor Biblical figures. Would anyone here be interested in helping to fill it out? It should contain information on persons mentioned in the Bible, but lacking enough information to justify an individual article. Cheers! BD2412 talk 02:19, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

"Messianic Jews"
I'd be very interested in hearing from others at Talk:Early_Christianity about this edit. Is it appropriate to apply the term "Messianic Jews" to the Early Christians? Seems anachronistic to me. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:31, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

your attention requested
I realize this doesn't have anything per se to do with Judaism, but thought it might be of interest to some of the contributors here... Please see Talk:Jordan. Tom e r TALK 06:32, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
 * This is not for here. There once was WikiProject Arab-Israeli conflict, see those Users. IZAK 17:10, 11 November 2005 (UTC)